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Back on February 12th, I broke the story A-List Actors Pressure SAG To Start Talks about how a carefully orchestrated campaign by powerful actors George Clooney, Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, Robert De Niro and others was getting underway in the trades and mainstream press to pressure SAG president Alan Rosenberg and national executive director Doug Allen to start negotiations early. Now a SAG board member directs me to this open letter from actor and rank-and-filer David Clennon attacking those A-Listers for "insulting" their union leadership when "loyalty and solidarity and courage" are needed:
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Dave,
To a fellow SAG member your warning sounds a lot like, “Be quiet in church!” or “How dare you question the police?” Anyone who’s been watching the WGA and SAG can see the grave difference between the effective solidarity WGA leadership has earned within their guild, and the prolonged & divisive damage the current Hollywood SAG leadership has done to our performers unions — bullying, disciplinary, and obsessively censoring SAG’s own loyal New York & Regional Branch divisions, robbing SAG members of a the protection of an agency franchise agreement for over 5 years, picking destructive & time-wasting fights with our agents in the ATA and with our sister union and traditional negotiating partner, AFTRA in which many SAG actors enjoy membership. And finally to your point, we are delaying informal talks with the AMPTP in the flimsy strategy that this current defacto work stoppage will advantage SAG. It won’t.
The current Hollywood Membership First regime which holds a slim majority on the SAG Board has bloodied the Executive Office of SAG with unproductive firings, produced an unforgiveable lack of organizing of work for our members (AFTRA now has jurisdiction over 50% of scripted dramatic cable TV programming,) holds extremist positions against merger of SAG & AFTRA, and when pinned to the wall and called on it, repeated episodes of shrill, intransigent, and wholly inappropriate behavior. This is the opposite of the union solidarity that you call for. This is incompetent leadership which must be voted out in the Fall 2008 SAG Board elections and the current Executive Director sent back to the NFLPA where he came from.
President Clooney, c’mon down!!!
I’d like to back up what Dave Clennon said. I can’t speak directly to what I learned at the SAG Wages & Working conditions for New Media meeting Friday due to a request for confidentiality, however, I don’t think I’m speaking out of school if I point out that the New Media technical issues related to the contract are insanely complex. Not the kind of thing we want to rush our negotiators into talking about before they’re ready.
Also, we (SAG) have a democratic process we are going through wherein member input is solicited at meetings open to all SAG members. The A-listers’ call to talk came before the conclusion of the W&W meetings.
As I would prefer to think the best of the A-listers who sounded this call, I am going to assume that their only wish is to see the door open for informal talks while SAG completes its democratic processes in preparation for the actual talks. From what I have been able to gather about AMPTP negotiations with the DGA and WGA, though, it seems most of the heavy lifting actually happens before formal negotiations begin. If this is correct, the best interests of the vast majority of SAG members would be better served if our negotiators do not enter into any talks, formal or otherwise, before they are fully prepared, which means having a firm grasp of the New Media landscape as well as a clear mandate from the membership as to what we expect by way of a deal.
In short, like the rest of us, the A-listers who made this call should be patient and publicly supportive as the guild prepares itself and unifies itself for what may potentially be a very difficult negotiation.
FUNNY
Welcome to the board, Mr Clennon….
And thanks for posting – er – almost posting….
Oh, David – never let Terrence Beasor post your post. His history on this board brands what he puts his hand to as often false and/or misrepresenting the truth.
Strike One against you.
Quote:
Four stars — Out of alignment?
(When is it unwise or inappropriate for high-profile actors to comment publicly on the actions of their unions?)
To Mssrs Clooney, DeNiro and Hanks, and Ms Streep:
About your “JUST TALK” advertorials in the trades; and your letter to the L.A. Times:
Nice . “Advertorials”. We like that sort of thing here.
Quote:
If you really want to help the working people in your industry, you should be supporting the leadership of your union, and you should be urging your fellow S.A.G. members to do the same. Rightly or wrongly, many of us look to you to set an example of loyalty and solidarity and courage.
No. There is no “you should be supporting the leadership of your union”. “Loyalty” to the Guild does not necessarily mean loyalty to the “leadership”. Many SAG members in SAG history have felt betrayed by the “leadership”, and they often have gone directly to the press and media – especially MembershipFirst before they got the upper hand. In fact it is one way they got the upper hand.
Strike Two.
Quote:
Our guild leaders were democratically elected through free and fair balloting. (Did you vote in the last S.A.G. election?) And the current elected leadership of your union have exercised their constitutional right to appoint a new executive director, Doug Allen.
Doug Allen was NOT “appointed” – he was hired by the National Board. Hired to represent SAG NATIONAL – not just SAG Hollywood. Doug Allen has consistently ignored nearly one-half of the Guild leadership while siding exclusively with the “MembershipFirst” Party.
Quote:
These are our leaders. In most cases, I voted for their opponents. But this is a union. And these are our leaders. And you’ve insulted them. You’ve insulted all of us. The time for trade paper advertorials and letters to the Times is during the next S.A.G. election campaign. Not now.
You don’t get it, do you, David? We in SAG have never followed “leaders” we did not agree with. These particular leaders have made it very clear that they want “their strike”. Others disagree. These A-list working actors have NOT “insulted all of us”. They have challenged our “leadership” because they recognize that our “leadership” has been carrying on a fruitless war with AFTRA for over a year now, and that that has nothing to do with developing positive strategies for negotiations – in fact it works against it.
SAG is NOT being asked to rush into talks ahead of schedule. Just to do it right.
Our leaders have NOT constructed a strategy. They have spent a whole year instead of trying to invent a stupid war with AFTRA!
Strike Three!
_________________
Tom Ligon
Clooney, DeNiro, Hanks and Streep –
I support your wise and noble efforts; and trust that the SAG leadership will follow your sage advice. And, uhm, you and your fellow actors will be working for scale (no back-end) for the life of the new contract, right?
This, frankly, is the only thing more insulting than the DV, NYT and LAT asking Jerry Bruckheimer, Dick Wolf, Oliver Stone and Michael Bay for their thoughts on the DGA and WGA contracts.
Harumph!
This article seems a bit hypocritical. He points out that the union is a democratic organization (when he references the election of the current leaders). Then criticizes the individuals for exercising their democratic right to openly disagree with said leaders. WTH? He suggests that now is not the time to disagree? I say it is the perfect time. After watching what just happened with the WGA, I think it makes a lot of sense to for these actors to speak up now! Dave Clennon may not agree with them, and that is his right just like it is theirs to disagree with the union leaders.
And can somebody please refer to things by their correct and factual name — “The Writers Strike” was no such thing. Yes, the Writers called a strike, but the day the studios walked away from negotiations (which was ILLEGAL, by the way) that day it became “The Studio Lock-out.”
It is vital to remember what you, the members of SAG, are actually dealing with. The AMPTP shut this town down for no other reason than they are malignant and punitive. And they will treat SAG the same as they treated the WGA.
Stars, like the a-list writers, need to keep their dissension in the locker-room. Go ahead and let loose in there. But not in the paper.
Dissent is one thing–everybody has their own opinion, naturally, and rightfully so…
But divisiveness is a mistake.
As those of us in the WGA will tell you the best way to make strides in a contract negotiation is to present a united front. Even if the deal doesn’t go as far as you think it should (and I’ll be the first to say, that in my opinion, the deal falls far short of what I think we deserve), being united in numbers and in spirit, if not in opinion, gives the opposition pause for concern and incentive to bargain in good faith.
I think it’s destructive for any A-lister–in any Guild–to voice an opinion in public that negates the voice of its membership. Unity is the only answer and is the best way to support those in your Guild who haven’t achieved A-list status. Those who don’t have that power of individual star-driven leverage need the support of those A-listers. In my opinion A-Listers have a responsibility to others in their Guild and can be a powerful force to improve conditions for every member.
And to those A-Listers I say, rise above yourselves and support your fellow members. You’ll be a better, stronger union for it.
Wish George Clooney would keep his yap shut about everything.
the “Writers Strike” was just that. A strike by the writers. the Wga went out and did they get a better deal? Ask all the unemployed writers out there who walked the lines and did not have work to come back to. The writers struck and will not reap their benefits{?} for 10 to 15 years. yea, in my opinion they won, NOT.
Let’s not forget most of these big a list stars are also producers and/or directors. Tom Hanks, George Cloney and Robert DeNiro and many others have much more at stake financially as producers than they do as members of SAG.
That’s true, the strike should be called “The Studio Lock Out”
yea, in my opinion they won, NOT.
This is why people need writers.
So we finally got through one strike, and now we’ve got another one looming from a union that’s already sniping at each other in public, and waiting until the last minute to gather info on new media before they start negotiating? Really, you’re going to wait until 2 months before the de facto production shutdown date to start researching new media and deciding what you want? The incompetence is staggering.
Guess I better start saving up again.
THe last strike cost the Southern California economy, according to the venerable LA Times, an estimated $2.5 billion. A great many people got hurt both emotionally and financially – tens of thousands plus their families – due to the completely avoidable labor strike fueled by the studios and networks betting against the strength, resolve and integrity of the WGA.
A fair deal AND avoidance of another devastating strike is the hope of every SAG member I know. I applaud any genuine effort towards that collective goal. Mr. Clennon’s pontification of “How dare you!” and “Shut your mouth!” to other SAG members, even to those with a voice, is pure unadulterated crap. Mr. Clennon’s unsubstantiated claim that all members are insulted is grossly pathetic. As a SAG member, I am not insulted; I am thrilled and encouraged. Mr. Clennon strikes me as quite counter-productive and will never get my vote if he decides to run for SAG office which I suspect this move of his was testing the water for.
Projects are already being delayed due to the uncertainty of a possible SAG strike. Let’s get a deal now, like the DGA did, not wait for a last-minute rushed pre-Oscar deal because that moment may come to pass AFTER a strike begins – whcih will happen if the AMPTP tries to pull the same dishonest and disrespectful garbage it pulled with the writers. Lets avoid that nonsense – even the WGA was grateful to SAG and its higher profile members for their strong and unwavering support.
In SAG, we are not soldiers and the leadership are not Generals. They are our representatives, not our overlords and certainly not out employers. Our leaders listen to the membership, even individual voices, or they will wish that they had. There are consequences to every action including, I suspect, to the ill-advised public scolding by Mr. Clennon.
I am at a point now in reading comments that while I respect the anonymity offered by this blog’s protocols, I can’t give anonymous comments the same weight I give comments from registered users.
For example, if you click on my name at the end of my comment, it takes you to my personal blog, which enables direct contact with me.
I bring this up only because I see here already comments that may be from AMPTP shills. I am not hiding behind the anonymity Nikki’s protocols here offer, and I’d like to invite others who truly wish to engage in a serious and thoughtful discussion to do the same.
Oh, and Tom Ligon, I do not know if you attended the New Media meeting at SAG Friday (the room was almost full, and I don’t have that kind of photographic recall), but if you did, sir, you would know I wasn’t kidding when I spoke in my previous comment here to the complexity of negotiating on New Media issues. We have a democratic process, and the A-listers who went so public are certainly free to express their concerns at meetings like the rest of us; or, if that offends their delicate sensibilities, the guild does have protocols set up for communications with high-profile members. I’m pretty damn sure Tom Hanks or Meryl Streep can get Alan Rosenberg on the phone any damn time they want.
wow, wtf is this? SAG, wake the fuck up, WGA wasnt forced to go on strike by the AMPTP, they’re own leadership wanted to strike to see what kind of hammer they swing, IN THE END THE WGA SWINGS A RUBBER HAMMER that only bounced back and hit themselves in the face
A-Listers: Signing a petition and woodshedding Rosenberg and Allen is easy. Board service is hard. Step up.
Roberto -
Mr. Rosenberg and SAG’s governing board ARE our elected representatives. What we should be encouraging them to do is respect the democratic process – that series of wages & working conditions meetings that are still going on as I write this. I went to the New Media meeting Friday, voiced my opinion and asked a couple of good questions. You attend any?
And while we’re at it, see my post above about hitting these boards anonymously. We know there were AMPTP shills trolling these blogs during the WGA thing, and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they kept that PR firm as well as their little trolls on retainer because of the upcoming SAG negotiations. Unless you pony up an honest identity, why should I respect your opinion???
Michael Heister
http://www.thepodosphere.com
The danger that none of your correspondents mention is summed up in the term “de facto strike.” It has already happened. The last story on DEADLINE is about Steven Spielberg’s decision to postpone the start of filming on “The Trial of the Chicago 7″ until at least August because he cannot risk being in production on June 30, if SAG and the AMPTP do not have an agreement by then.
So perhaps we should cut Clooney, Hanks, DeNiro and Streep a little slack here and accept the fact that they may be trying prevent further damage to those who have already paid a heavy price for what the Writers have achieved.
The most encouraging news I have read appeared in The L A Times Business section on Sat. 2/23/08, p.C6 where “Rosenberg…and Allen” reportedly had “already begun informal discussions with studio chiefs”…[and they] had “met with Disney Chief Executive Robert Iger on Friday and discussed a possible timetable for talks.”
Maybe a little nudging from the A-listers is helping the process along.
Do you think?
William Schallert
After reading Richard Verrier’s story in yesterday’s LA Times, ‘A-list actors want action on contract’ I thought a more appropriate heading would have been:
‘A-list actors want ‘qualified voting’ and to hell with SAG rank and file’
That’s basically what I got out of it. These overpaid and in some cases overrated fellow actors of mine have determined they will decide what is best for me concerning our SAG contract which expires June 30.
As for Mr. Clooney, Mr. Hanks, and the 1,000 plus members who are pushing their petition to implement so-called ‘qualified voting’ in which our guild would adopt restrictions as to who will be allowed to vote on the film and TV contract, I would like them to take their collective petition and push it ‘where the sun don’t shine.’
Yes, I am pissed off. As a proud member of Screen Actors Guild since 1978, I resent and I reject what these elitist snobs are attempting to do. They should all be ashamed of themselves. It is my sincere hope they will immediately put a stop to this course of direction. In other words, “knock it off.”
On the positive side, it was good to read that Screen Actors Guild President Alan Rosenberg is totally against the idea stating, “It disenfranchises…people who are already marginalized.”
To Mr. Rosenberg I wish to express my gratitude. As an actor who has had his share of ups and downs and who has felt more like Willy Loman for the past few years, I can only say ‘thanks’ on behalf of the thousands of other actors out there much like me.
We’re not A-list by a long shot, not even close. We’re rank and file, the heart and soul of the Screen Actors Guild. I’ll be damned if I will stand by and be silent while a small handful of actors attempt to take away my right to vote on any contract put before me as long as I am a member in good standing.
In closing, Mr.Clooney, Mr. Hanks, and their fellow petition gatherers would be very wise to go back and review the history of the Screen Actors Guild. Recognize the sacrifices made from day player to big star and remember the important lesson of ‘a house divided.’ As we more forward in our attempt to achieve a new contract, the last thing we need is to be divided.
‘Qualified Voting’? I think not.
Jimmy Arone
The A-listers are stepping forward because they hold the economic hammer. They make the studios lots of money, so they have some leverage. As a SAG member, I have no problem with them getting involved. I mean, they’re not going to CAUSE a strike, I don’t see how they hurt the process. And, blindly following SAG leadership is stupid. We need to avoid a strike any way we can. I can’t afford it, and I’m damn sure most of you can’t either. and, yeah, fighting with AFTRA is really, REALLY stupid. I hold both cards, and I’m sick of e-mails telling me SAG did this, or AFTRA did that. Both of them need to grow the fuck up, shut the fuck up, and make sure we have a decent contract, and decent protections, when we work.
Jesus.
David Clennon is just a SAG Kool-Aid drinker.
His “support your leaders” B.S. is the same idiotic message that some WGA members were shouting before “their leaders” surrendered on every AMPTP demand and took the deal that AMPTP demanded that they take. AMPTP even demanded WHEN the WGA needed to take the deal. It was a total capitulation by the NegCom. There should be no illusion about who had the negotiating power the entire strike.
The A-list actors just want to dispense with a B.S. strike that won’t accomplish anything accept prevent work from happening. As usual, most of the people that will want a strike RARELY WORK. A strike is meaningless to them.
So SAG militants, vote for a strike. Make your YouTube videos. Do your own version of that garbage “Speechless” campaign. Implement your version of WGA’s spectacularly worthless “Pencils 2 Moguls.” Cite the polls that indicate the public’s overwhelming (and overwhelmingly passive) support for you.
But I prefer not to hear about how you will have the public’s support, because public support counts for NOTHING. The WGA can cite several polls that showed public support. It’s meaningless.
Public support will not get you an increase in your DVD residual rate. Public support will not get you a smaller window on free-use streaming. Public support will not get you anything except some free food.
So strike. After you take the DGA deal afterwards, then just shut up. I still hear have to deal with B.S. about how great my strike was. The streets will be pretty smelly if I have to listen to your B.S. strike “success” stories too.
The time to dissent with a union is now, before a strike or no strike vote is called. After that you shutup and support your union regardless of weather you agree or not. But one thing you never, ever do is throw your weight around in public against your union right before the most important labor negotiations ever. I am not a mindless “union” man, and no one wants another strike, but privately disagreeing with your union’s leadership as to not undermine their authority seems like basic common sense, and whoever decided to follow through with this letter should know better. It seems rather self serving and will only breed an us vs them contempt and mistrust. Extremely surprised at Mr. Clooney who could very easily and very influentially lobby privately.
Mr. Heister & Mr. Arone,
You both seem to be against qualified voting or affected member voting. I can see why, according to IMDB neither of you make your livings as actors. You don’t depend on those contracts to feed your children, to clothe them, to pay the rent or mortgage but you sure think that you should have a say in whether those contracts should be accepted or rejected. What if working actors came into the place you work (unless you are living off Daddy’s money) and told your boss what you should make, now and in the future?
When you two loudmouths start having something invested in these contracts, besides your egos in calling yourselves actors, shut your traps and vote on the contracts when you work enough to have something at stake. My family depends on these contracts to survive and I only want people who are in a like position to vote on them, not vanity card holders like yourselves who stand to lose nothing.
It’s not about elitism, it’s about survival.
to Jimmy’s comment,
First of all, I signed the list for the board and leaders to look at and CONSIDER “affected” voting. NOT qualified voting. None of the a listers who are mentioned in the ad (four to be exact) in question, in this post have signed this. So Jimmy you are confusing the issues. And by the way, when James Cagney was President of our union we had affected voting. This is nothing new.
These are two separate issues.
SAG has to go through it’s process of wages and committee meetings that it has done for many decades.
It rubbed some of us actors the wrong way that these stars could have realized this with a phone call and sent their message privately. As one poster said, I know they could have gotten Alan on the phone. I agree.
On the other hand, Clooney gave 25,000 and probably more to the Actors Fund and I know those who have used some of this. Where are other major stars donations??? I have a hard time being mad at him because of this generosity.
It looks like we have dissent in our ranks before we begin to negotiate, with what we have seen is hardly an honorable bunch after how they conducted themselves with the writers.
I think the fact that some people in town think we should have begun negotiating after the DGA is what motivated the ad by these stars. This is simply a failure of the current board and leaders to reach out to the a list stars and leads of shows and let them know our process and where we are and what they are doing. SAG had been slow to tell high profile members
what is expected before the WGA strike. But I don’t think this excuses the ill advised ad these stars did.
Our leaders may not be those I have voted for, but they are our leaders during a very important negotiation.
The stars should be telling them what they expect and rank and file members should be attending the meetings but we HAVE to have solidarity going into this.
I will not follow them blindly into a ill timed strike, I have yelled loudly at their insanely stupid timing on going to war with AFTRA, but I will not undercut their ability to fight for the middle class and working actor to make a living with dvd’s, residuals, and have health insurance.
Let’s fight this internally. GO TO MEETINGS. See what we are up against. Make your voice heard while you can. Stop armchair quarterbacking.
Huge stars who produce can afford a strike and to lose new media, the majority of us cannot. This blog is not where this should be being discussed, it should be an internal SAG issue.
In response to Tom Ligon’s post: Terrence Beasor did not send Dave Clennon’s post to DeadlineHollywood, I did.
Streaming here:
Nobody in this industry wants a strike; get that straight. But a Union’s only leverage is to carry a big stick into a negotiation, and that is called a Strike Authorization.
The AMPTP forced the Studio Lock-out by walking away from the WGA table.
DGA went in early (contract does not expire until June 30, 2008) and by looking at the deal-points, (since SAG has not been given the whole contract to work with, yet Aftra has), it looks like a pittance. WGA improved in some places on that hasty back-channel deal, and it now is in SAG’s court to improve upon that deal.
With regard to Ligon’s comment that SAG leadership has been “trying to invent a stupid war with Aftra”:
I ask those of you reading this post to consider the following facts:
1. Aftra has violated 99-CVR-17-R, an agreement between SAG and Aftra that madates sharing of contract information and that neither Union will undercut each other. Period.
2. Aftra has invaded traditional SAG jurisdiction in the recent years, making individual deals in Basic-Cable, offering cut-rate deals for actors that give away 10-15+ 24-hour days of free reruns, which means actors get no residuals, thus no Health & Retirement. Think about it: Actors get no residuals for a year. Not only are these SAG members working under an inferior Aftra contract, their pension accrual rate is less; Aftra is 1.7% and SAG is 3.5%.
3. Aftra made a deal for 6 years with Nickeodeon giving away free internet streaming.
4. In 2005, during co-SAG/Aftra Interactive (video games) negotiations, SAG was in the process of negotiating residuals; Aftra folded and settled for a deal with no residuals in the fastest growing business in our industry, “revenue was up 43% in 2007 to $18 Billion dollars” Variety 1/17/08. No residuals for actors.
5. According to Phase 1, another agreement between SAG and Aftra, the NegComm is seated 50-50, even though Aftra earns less than 10% of the TV/Theatrical contract, and does no movies.
6. The TV/Theatrical contract is ratified by both unions; every member who is in good standing may vote.
7. With respect to the internet petition circulating by SAG members, calling on SAG to qualify it’s membership on voting on this contract, (as they have been told that non-working actors vote) the question I have asked repeatedly and have yet to receive an answer is this:
Why is it that these SAG petitioners, (many of whom are dual card holders, many of whom are my friends), why are they not asking Aftra to be held to the same standard?
Broadcasters, weatherpeople, disk jockeys, game-show hosts, etc….are allowed to vote on the TV/Theatrical contract!
I believe that every member in good standing who is an actor, and who is seeking work (it is no fault of their own that they are not hired) be allowed to vote on a contract that affects them, whether they are as fortunate as the signers of the petition or not.
I am extremely concerned with the fact that people in both of our Unions who are NOT actors, vote on this contract. If actors want a strong contract, then we do not need people who are NOT actors voting in either Union. (Les Moonves-CBS comes to mind.)
8. Aftra has an open-door policy for membership – there are no requirements whatsoever to become a member of Aftra.
SAG membership requires employment in order to join.
SCREEN ACTORS GUILD, INC. Constitution and By-Laws April 2007
ARTICLE XI Collective Bargaining, Agreements & Ratification
Section 5. Every member of the Guild shall be bound by the provisions of all collective bargaining contracts in effect between the Guild and motion picture producers as the same are or may hereafter be amended.
Hi. I’m Dave Clennon.
I may be breaching website etiquette, butting into the comments line. But I want to add a paragraph I wrote after attending the Friday morning session of S.A.G./AFTRA’s Wages and Working Conditions committee. I was too late to get it published with the rest of my blasphemous polemic. I would like to include it here because now I understand better what we’re protecting when we refuse to be stampeded into negotiations.
The preceding paragraph ends thus . . .
. . . . . . . . . .. . . Please, stop interfering with, and second-guessing, our leaders and their preparations for what promises to be a long and grueling series of confrontations. They will begin to “just talk” when they believe they can best serve the interests of our membership.
And THEN I wrote . . . .
Preparations for negotiations include several meetings of the Wages and Working Conditions Committee (among others). Every member of the Guild is strongly encouraged to participate in these meetings. Every viewpoint, every demand, every possible solution is welcomed in a town-hall style format. This process is taking place right now. It could not have begun until the DGA and WGA settlements were formulated and published. Now, those settlements must be studied, analyzed and then compared to the needs and hopes of S.A.G. members. At the end of these deliberations, our negotiating proposals may differ significantly from the DGA/WGA “templates.” Your insistence [Clooney and crew] on beginning “just talks,” immediately, comes off like a plutocrat’s disregard for ordinary actors and for democratic labor union processes. I’m sure you didn’t intend it that way.
. . . . And we return to the published script.
I put the whole piece up on a little blog I call “Thank Your Lucky S.A.G. Stars,”
http://www.StarsAdviseTheirUnion.blogspot.com
You can leave comments there, too.
Some of the negative comments on DHDaily contain a few thoughtful opposing viewpoints. Overall, I would say the negatives didn’t read my scratchings carefully enough to give sensible replies.
Otherwise, it’s refreshing to see that royalism hasn’t been completely stamped out. We are rabble, but we’re not homogeneous rabble. We’re losers, but some of us still know how to love and honour our betters.
Persevere.
Dave C
Now the WGA was locked out by the AMPTP?
How does that work? Talk about “shills.”
Haven’t you above-the-liners reeked enough havoc on the below-the-liners? Come on guys, go to the table and make your deal. Another strike will do nothing but cause more job losses, more hardship for everyone, fuel more anger and resentment from the people who really make Hollywood work. Enough already! Let’s get’er done and move on.
No, Dan, it’s not a shill statement. The whole industry got locked out by the AMPTP… and the WGA too, if you consider that it is illegal for the AMPTP to walk away from the negotiations… you did hear of the term, LAW, didn’t you? And the only reason that they got away with it is because the government is in the hands of the same type of corporations that own the studios and want to break all workers down to the slaves they think they ought to be… and you are probably one who supports them.
David Clennon was out there on the picket lines… were you? Do you support anybody but yourself?
And you, BTL, ‘go to the table and make your deal’ … any deal made without teeth won’t be worth much… you may as well not even make a deal… just take whatever crumbs they throw at you each week. Or do you not understand, BTL, that without unions, in this business, you rarely get decent wages or health insurance? I do, because I’ve been there.
You’ve seen how strong the opposition is… that when the WGA had its most clout, it still folded… is that what you want to do, too? Because that’s what divisiveness gets you. That, and whiners, saying, make the deal now.
Regarding the stament about a studio “lockout”…
You can have a strike (by employees) or you can have a lockout (by management) – you cannot have both!!! (This is law, look it up)
It is just absurd to say the studio’s locked out the writers when they walked away from the table. Unless the writers crossed the picket line and attempted to return to work THEN THEY WERE STILL ON STRIKE! (as long as they are on strike – THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LOCKOUT) Furthermore, in order to be locked out, those same writers attempting to return to work would have to be told by management they were not allowed to return in order to be lockedout!
Just because you call a strike and you dont like I how the negotions went doesnt mean you can blame the other side for the strike or the duration of the strike. What you are really saying is the writers called an il-advised strike and didnt have the leverage to keep the other side at the negotiating table.
In most instances of labor relations, strikes are called (or in most cases threatened) because labor has some leverage they can exploit to force a quick resolve by management. In this case, clearly the WGA lacked the leverage.
THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR
And he hath indeed borne false witness against his neighbor Terrence Beasor.
So much for Ligon, Tom, comment #4.
His false witness is revealed in a statement by Frances Fisher, comment #27.
So much for Ligon, Tom’s credibility — as a reporter of facts and as a commentator.
Dave Clennon
The lovely actress, Frances Fisher, charter member of Hollywood SAG extremist group Membership First, trots out the tired, old anti-merger AFTRA-bashing mule once again. (Yawn) This kind of obsessive, divisive disinformation about our sister union (27 year contract negotiation partner with SAG) has caused working actors to cringe and shake our heads once again.
AFTRA contacts in scripted basic cable are based upon the SAG cable tv exhibition window Sopranos uses in pay tv plus SAG/AFTRA prime-time contracts and are wisely written in a system tiered to cable program budgets like SAG Indy Film contracts.
So what’s Membership First’s real beef? Salary compression (quite real,) top-of-show (genuine beef,) slim share of DVDs (legitimate beef,) splitting health & retirement contribs between two unions (understandable beef.) But SAG has shown an egregious inability to organize new work for us actors in basic cable, and post-merger-defeat AFTRA has been much more successful (50% share.)
In light of all the assorted beefs what does the current Hollywood SAG leadership & their Exec do? Attack their negotiating partner AFTRA, the sister union to which virtually all working actors also belong?!?
Might I suggest a visit to BA (Brawlers Anonymous) where they give you rubber dummies to bash rather than your union.
If SAG leadership can possibly get over their obsessive nit-picking and shouting perhaps we can conduct a successful AMPTP negotiation, or a successful strike if necessary. But keep up the bashing and blind intransigence, and you’ll drive AFTRA to the table by itself where your dreaded, “Disc Jockeys, news persons, jingle singers AND ACTORS” will cut a deal before SAG. And THAT is something SAG/AFTRA performers do not need.
And once all this has passed, it will be SAG Board election time in September — a perfect opportunity for actors to elect genuine union leaders and have done with Membership First screaming and blood-spattering forever.
menotyou -
Please see what I said earlier in this comments section about anonymous comments. At least I’m public with who I am.
I would add that past public record is just that – past. And an IMDB page does not reflect the totality of what a person is up to. FYI.
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to “A between the liner”
yes, i understand what a union is. i’ve been a active IA member, working full time in Features and TV for 32 fucking years. and i don’t need your condescending attitude. now, go make your deal and get it over with.
doc
Dear “ichbinaucheinwerkungactor”,
I encourage you to use your real name.
With regard to your acknowledgement that Aftra has been more “successful” in organizing new work on Basic-Cable, the only reason for that “success” is that they made deals that undercuts the standards of SAG. So much for a sister Union upholding 99-CVR-17-R. Aftra organized to the detriment of actors; something that SAG does not do. Screen Actors Guild works to maintain the standard, and to improve wages and working conditions. Of course the Companies would go for cut-rate contracts.
The unfortunate by-product of this action is that actors are not getting residuals for a season. I do not know how any actor could survive without residuals; I can’t.
When you compare television basic-cable to low-budget films, you are comparing apples and oranges:
Low budget films do not have built-in distribution/advertising, televi$ion doe$.
“Obsessive”? Perhaps. I care that actors be compensated for their work, and that they are not being sold out by the lowest bidder.
“Divisive disinformation?” Not! Everything I posted above is accurate. It is fact.
Have you read THE FOUR AGREEMENTS? Maybe it is time to do so….
To BTL: I am also a BTL member though not with IA and have seen IA give back on every contract. From 20% paycut on movie of the weeks, Vacation/Holiday pay to 3% paycuts on “First year” hour-long shows that get streached for up to 5 years. Last contract you guys stabbed a fellow IA member union in the back By screwing over the Camera Operators just because you didn’t want to strike.
I worked on one show where the laborers were making more then the prop makers all because the labor union told the producers to go to hell. Maybe IA should grow a pair.
As for the A-Lister who feel only those effected by the contract should get to vote. Except for the fact that if there is a strike they can’t work, or the P&H for after you blown all your money on drugs. Just how does the contract that is voted on really effect you?
Given that the “JUST TALK” advertorial didn’t play as well as its composers had hoped, I’m trying to think of a name for this whole little episode:
“A Four-Star Fuck-Up” ?
“The Four-Star Cluster-Fuck” ?
The prize for best title could be dinner with one of the four. Or all of them, if there’s a strike. Maybe their publicists would arrange that?
d cl