This comes to me from actor Amy Brenneman, who is responding to actor Ron Livingston speaking out here against the SAG petition drive lobbying for an earnings threshold requirement for ”qualified voting” on SAG contract issues. Brenneman takes the “pro” opinion articulated earlier this week by Ned Vaughn here:
“I, too, have been working on the effort to improve SAG contract voting procedures, and I’d like to respond to Ron Livingston’s thoughtful comments.
“In some areas, Ron and I are in complete agreement. I’m pleased he thinks the general principle behind the effort is sound and worthy of discussion. His acknowledgement that he can’t think of a reason to be consulted on contracts that don’t affect him—that he wouldn’t feel qualified to vote on them—is a point of view we share. I don’t receive the Animation VO ballot. That’s not a measure of my ‘talent or worth’, but simply reflects the fact that I haven’t been working in that field.
“The SAG constitution requires that contracts be ratified by ‘the membership affected thereby.’ It doesn’t say ‘the entire membership’ or ‘all members in good standing’ as it does for voting on officers. Nor does it refer to ‘potentially affected members’.
“It seems that Ron’s real concern isn’t whether the constitution should be followed, but how to define ‘affected’. The fact is that virtually every union in the country—including the WGA and Actors’ Equity—has come up with an acceptable and accepted set of criteria. SAG (and AFTRA) can—and must—do it too.
“Ron is concerned about ‘people scraping by, the up-and-comers, and the kids working their first and second jobs’—I am too. It is precisely FOR those members that we need this. When I joined SAG (to shoot a Tampax commercial in Coney Island, no less!) I felt such gratitude that the members who proceeded me had used their experience and expertise to secure a contract that was now protecting me.
“Without a reasonable definition of ‘affected members’, Guild demographics put contract voting overwhelmingly in the hands of those with little knowledge of the contract and no stake in the outcome—and perhaps even a direct conflict of interest. This includes thousands of SAG card holders who work on crews, in writers’ rooms, in studio offices, in entertainment law firms, as management, etc. These members don’t act in film or TV, and their livelihoods would only be hurt if the union held out for a better contract by walking out. How hard will they fight to get actors a better deal?
“We are NOT asking for an earnings threshold. The number of days worked—not amount of money earned—is the common test for ‘affected’ members. For work like ours, it must be averaged over a time span long enough to accommodate the inevitable ‘ups-and-downs’ of our business. The Equity standard is one job (typically at least 6-8 weeks) within the previous 6 years. I believe SAG should consider something similar – perhaps an average of 5 days of principal work and/or 15 days of background work per year, over the previous 6 years. (Three background days has been used as an equivalent of one principal day for union entrance.) Of course, the 6 year period would be prorated for newer members.
“A standard like this—for contract voting only—will broadly include members with working knowledge of the contract and some concrete stake in it. And because it eliminates the influence of those without such a stake, it will give the ‘affected’ members—those who depend on the contract and know it best—an effective voice. This gives maximum credibility to the vote and strengthens our hand in negotiations, which results in better contracts for all members, present and future.
“Ron says there may be a way to change how SAG votes that makes us a more effective union—that it’s a great idea and worth talking about. Once again, we agree.
“This IS that idea, and we are talking about it. And if ever we could benefit from a more effective union, it is right now.”
This comes to me from actor Amy Brenneman, who is responding to actor Ron Livingston speaking out 





I’m sorry I need something cleared up for me …………… every writer I speak with tells me that you can participate in any vote as long as you are a member in good standing. Now don’t get me wrong……. I don’t really care how another union votes. That is up to said unions membership. I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page. This also may be something that they are unaware of. ………. Anyway,
Let us not forget that any money negotiated for pension and health effects the entire membership. not just those who work under that specific contract. Every member is indirectly “effected” by “every” contract negotiation. You might not like it but it is a fact.
I earned about $40,000 as a SAG actor last year, and am already on track to likely earn more than that in 2008. But Ms. Brenneman’s example (an average of 5 days of principal work and/or 15 days of background work per year, over the previous 6 years) would exclude me from voting. I know she’s only talking about beginning the conversation, but the wide range of pay structures in our guide makes defining “affected” a very slippery slope.
Amy,
Succinct, accurate, well said.
Brava and thank you!
But the intensity of the sh_t-storm this is kicking up is a direct reflection of how seldom current Hollywood SAG Board members actually work on-camera and how badly they intend to keep their Board seats!
Let the show begin…
Wouldn’t that leave out Ed Asner?
A man who, in my opinion was a great former SAG president?
Peggy Lane O’Rourke
Anyone who will be expected to walk a picket line if the union goes out on strike should be allowed to vote on the contract. Period.
The problem with these sorts of things is either they are so tight, as to be onerous and disenfranchising (as pointed out above), or so loose, thats there no real point to having them. And I think thats what its going to come down to;due to the vagaries of the business, the bar will be set so low as to be pointless. I understand these sorts of rules for things like below the line, construction work, etc, because those things are a set of skills that generally don’t rely on the whims of a casting director (if you know the skills, you’re probably going to get the job), so if you don’t keep up with the rules its probably because you’re not trying. Its not exactly the same as above the line work.
OK, so I’m a writer and this isn’t my decision, but I think Barry’s example above is a good one. And hyphenate’s point is well-taken also.
At a time when unity is going to be your most important weapon, I think fracturing your guild with this divisive fight is a mistake. Don’t let your own internal business distract you or you will not have the energy for the AMPTP. Trust me. This is a time for inclusion.
What about Aftra? How come there is no push to qualify Aftra members “affected” by the upcoming TV/Theatrical contract? Could it be that Aftra doesn’t have a dog in the hunt?
I find it quite interesting that Aftra does less than 10% of the TV/Theatrical contract, and that nobody is holding them to the same standards. .
According to Phase 1, the joint bargaining agreement between SAG and Aftra, the negotiating committee is seated 50-50. That means Aftra votes on this contract, (and does NO film, has three Primetime TV contracts,) yet they have a 50% say in how the negotiations go. How “affected” are they? Do you think weathermen and sportscasters and game show hosts and newscasters give a rat’s ass about TV/Theatrical when they get their ballot?
Why aren’t these SAG petition signers up in arms about that?
We are in serious W&W meetings through the rest of this month. I urge our members to come to the Guild at 5757 Wilshire Blvd., and participate in our deliberations.
Yes, I hear you now. Many of us are dual card holders; but Aftra as an institution does not do the work in the TV/Theatrical contract. Excuse me; they do less than ten percent.
If these petition signers are truly intersted in getting a fair contract — and as my friend Amy B says, “How hard will they fight to get actors a better deal?” I ask you this: How hard will the Aftra portion of the negotiating committee fight, since they only bring in less than 10% of the earnings? And will the weathermen, etc…vote for what actors need?
I agree that Vanity Card holders should be looked at: (people who hold a card but do not work the contract at all). I submit that we must look at our own SAG Board of Directors, and hold them to the same standards. We have people on our board who have no credits on IMDB; should they be making policy for our Guild with regard to TV/Theatrical?
And to the person who took a stab at Hollywood: look up the credits of our Hollywood Board, and see who represents you: working actors like Kent McCord, Anne Marie Johnson, Valerie Harper, Rene Taylor, Joe Bologna, Lainie Kazan, France Nuyen, Diane Ladd, Justine Bateman, William Russ, Joanna Cassidy, Anne DeSalvo, George Coe, Michael Bell, Seymour Cassel, Brett Cullen, Anthony DeSantis, Leigh French, Elliot Gould, Robert Hays, David Jolliffe, Nancy Sinatra, Piper Laurie, Paul Napier, William Mapother, Russell McConnell, Peggy Miley, Esai Morales, Barbara Niven, Susan Savage, Connie Stevens, JoBeth Williams, Angel Tompkins, William Mapother, William Katt, Bonnie Bartlett, Scott Wilson, me, and the list goes on. Check out our credits on http://www.ImDb.com
I submit that any member of Screen Actors Guild, because they are actors, and are seeking work, be allowed to vote on any and all contracts, because they may get a contract at any time that flips them into getting a leg-up.
Would you disqualify Gloria Stuart, who is basically a founding member of our Guild, who did not work for decades, and who got a job in Titanic in her 80′s and subsequently was nominated for an Academy Award, and won a SAG Award?
And don’t get me started on the Basic-Cable contracts…
Hi didely dee, the actors’ life for me.
While I have nothing but the greatest respect for Ms. Brenneman and her work, any formula that excludes any paid-up members in good standing from having a voice in deciding on the contract that affects all of us will invariably exclude not just the inactive actors, but active and potentially active actors.
Also, at a time when SAG should be looking very seriously at bringing more New Media types – who, by their nature, are early adapters and more entrepreneurial – into the fold, any affected voting formula will leave many of them out.
If this issue had been brought up a couple of years ago, Anne-Marie Johnson, who is currently serving on the Hollywood Board, would have had trouble meeting the threshold example cited by Ms. Brenneman because, as Johnson reported in a newsletter to the Hollywood members, she took time off from her career to care for an ill parent.
Unless we’d like to go through our 100,000+ membership on an individual-by-individual basis, I don’t know how we can find a fair affected voting formula.
With all due respect to the proponents of an affected voting threshold, it just doesn’t pass the smell test.
Hyphenate -
Damn right! Should be the end of this argument. Taxation without representation? Please! Quick, someone throw some tea into the harbor.
Does anybody know what % of actors (SAG members) works an average of 5 days of principal work?
“Anyone who will be expected to walk a picket line if the union goes out on strike should be allowed to vote on the contract. Period.”
Comment by hyphenate
That’s funny Hyphenate- because for some odd, hard to fathom reason, many vocal WGA supporters expected IATSE and IBT members to walk the picket with them…
Yet, not only did they not have the ability to vote, they didn’t even have any say in the matter that cost so many of them their jobs.
You live in a fantasy world.
“affected”?
It’s not just writers who can’t write.
My hope is that by the time SAG votes, they would have cleared all of this up and allow the general membership to vote without exception or proviso. The reason that the WGA strike was as successful as it could be was because of it’s STRENGTH IN NUMBERS. A full membership in front of a studio is much more effective than, well, significantly less.
Amy it looks like you’re implying that card holders not currently acting but working in other areas of the industry would not vote to strike and you are probably right. But, since the SAG constitution requires that the entire membership most vote for a strike authorization, not just the affected members. I cannot envision any possible scenario where 75% of the guild membership would vote to change Article XII so that only affected members could vote to authorize a strike. As I’ve said before, now is not the time to push this agenda. It is too late to push for qualified voting for this contract. Infighting in the last months before a contract expiration weakens the guild.
These are very interesting arguments.
My basic question about all of this, is why on earth are actors having this debate publicly?
They should be having this debate among themselves as union members. Argue, debate, come to a concensus, then present a united, public front.
Have we ever heard various key members of the AMPTP debating publicly about policy and procedure of their organization? Not really. Why? Because it’s important to keep those squabbles in the family.
SAG members, all union members, should be encouraged to argue, debate, and challenge their leaders. But I really think it’s to the benefit of all of them to have these squabbles privately.
Unity can’t just be a concept.
The problem with any “rules” for what constitutes an “affected” union member is that they are, by definition, arbitrary. And they are, as some have suggested a slippery slope. In this case to a destination that’s neither democratic nor viable in the short or long term.
Intentional or not, there is more than the whiff of elitism in attempts to disenfranchise what would be, in effect, the vast majority of dues-paying SAG members.
Raising the specter of rogue unionists who are writers, grips, Teamsters, waiters or embittered unsuccessful actors bent on exorcising their personal demons come election day is not a solid reason to deprive hard-working actors of the right to vote. It’s a clever debating tactic because it deals with a mythological figure not a real one. Or verifiable facts. But it’s no different a tactic than a Creationist trying to de-bunk Darwinism because of one anomaly in a vastly complex theory.
Amy Brenneman’s “five-days-per-year-in-six-years” rule, for example, could easily eliminate me (and a lot of actors I know) from participating in the governance of SAG. Yet I have more than made the minimum amount of money each year to qualify for pension credits and health care benefits for the past 21 years.
If I’m vested in the pension plan, have enough pension credits to get health care for life once I turn 65, am I not an “affected member”? Not according to Brenneman’s rule. Or any other proposed rules I’ve heard of so far.
I realize that she’s just floating this as an example. But my case alone points out not only the un-fairness of means testing but the inherent dangers of eliminating viable, credible and wise voices from union business.
I (along with a legion of middle-class actors) have paid my dues, literally and figuratively. It’s our perspective on issues such as health plans and pensions that should carry a lot of weight in union affairs because we’re the ones that need them the most. For top-tier actors the SAG pension will be a bauble of retirement, much as a Social Security check is to a retired brain surgeon. For the middle class however, a pension and medical plan is a necessary and central part of responsible retirement planning.
I’m not a lawyer (and yes I have played them on television) but it’s my guess that with respect to SAG and its longtime members there is a fiduciary relationship. I give them my dues and a cut of my earnings every year and the union manages the pension and health funds. I will resist any attempt to take away my right to vote on who gets to run the union and how these funds and plans are disbursed. After all, I have a vested, financial interest in it.
Democracy, as Winston Churchill once said is messy and inefficient. But, he added, it’s the best system we have. Instituting a SAG means test to determine who gets a voice in union business and who doesn’t will not, ultimately, strengthen the union. It will very quickly weaken it.
I made 80,000 last year as an actor.
I would not be a voting member under this proposal.
I’d like my dues back if it passes. Ok?
Also, these rich actors might want to learn about something called ‘timing.’ Because they have assured no advances in this years contract negotiation.
I can fully understand Ms Brenneman’s thinking. The true working actors cannot let their contract be influenced by those who hold cards but don’t rely on acting as a source of income. Qualified voting seems extremely fair to me as long as there is a well defined set of criteria and that criteria is applied consistently and fairly to all members. Once a person works enough to meet the threshold for voting, they will have their say in future contracts.
And to Ms Fisher’s point, yes I would say that Gloria Stuart should not vote if she is not working. This is no disrespect to her or her past accomplishments, just a reality that she isn’t relying on acting to pay her bills.
I think this proposal or something like it is probably a good idea.
Both the WGA and the DGA have some form of qualified voting. Equity has it too. I haven’t voted on an Equity contract in a long time. I’m certainly not offended and am not asking for my dues back. And SAG already has qualified voting on some contracts. I didn’t get a ballot in the mail for the Animation V/O contract and I’m not angry about it.
Currently, a third of SAG earn nothing a year. Another third earn under a thousand dollars. That changes the perception of what a Guild is. When I was speaking about the impending WGA strike with below the line people on the show I work on currently, one point that impressed and reassured them was that the WGA members voting to strike were people who will actually pay the cost of a strike. I can’t say the same about a possible SAG strike.
I love it when people try to play grammar police on here. The use of the word “affected” in this context is correct.
Dan, you’re shilling for Tom, aren’t you?
Hey Working actor,
First, congrats on a great year! 80K? Wow!
That puts you squarely in the SAG “elite”… and it certainly makes you a “rich” actor. Heck, you easily made more than 95% of your fellow SAG members last year. Way to go.
What I can’t quite get my head around is how you could make that much and not meet the modest work requirement Amy Brenneman laid out in her post above. It just doesn’t seem to make sense.
After all, 5 days of principal work at scale pays less than $3800. 15 days of background work pays even less: $1950. (I ran the numbers after I read Amy’s post, ‘cause I thought, “That’s gotta be a typo—5 days? That’s it?” I mean, forget making a living—that won’t even put gas in my truck!
As a day player (primarily) myself, I know that a day at scale doesn’t pay all that much, so I thought surely they’d want to set a higher standard than 5 days/yr. I’ve never had anything like an $80,000 year. I’ve never even been able to support myself with acting alone (I still make most of my living from a small business). But, geez, I’ve NEVER had a year when I wouldn’t meet that low standard—much less any six-year period! I wanted to double check myself so I went back through my pension statements. In my worst year (my first) I made $5300—and that was 12 years ago when a day at scale paid considerably less—so I know I worked well in excess of 5 days.
How is it you made $80,000 in a year (again, congrats!)—which, at least monetarily, SO far exceeds the suggested standard—and didn’t do the proposed amount of days? Are you some kind of superstar that gets paid 20 grand per day, and you only worked 4 days?
Or are you’re saying you wouldn’t meet the standard because while you made $80K last year, you made nothing in the previous 5 years? Well, since it’s an AVERAGE requirement, unless you ARE a really big star, it would be highly unusual to make 80 grand doing SAG jobs without working at least 30 days.
And since the proposed standard calls for an AVERAGE of 5 days/yr. over 6 years, if you work a total of just 30 days ANY TIME during that 6 years… you meet the standard. You made 80K last year and you didn’t work 30 days over the last 6 years? Unusual.
Maybe it’s because you’re a brand new member and you just made 80K in your first year? (If so, my hat is REALLY off!) Still, even that shouldn’t be a problem, since Amy suggested that anyone with less than 6 years experience would only need to meet a correspondingly prorated standard. So again, you’re good to go.
I dunno, I just can’t figure it out. How is it you could make SO much and not meet that modest standard? Heck, the CUMULATIVE TOTAL for the suggested standard—if it were based on money, instead of work—is less than $23,000 over six years. Or if you did all your work as a background performer, we’re only talking about $11,700 over six whole years. You made many multiples of that last year but still wouldn’t meet the standard? I’d truly love to know how, because I want to do what you do!!
jafoowa -
Ever heard of commercials?
My grand total for working on anything other than commercials was $900.
You put up a hell of a post, though. All for not.
Various not-so-brief responses:
Frances Fisher – Thank you!!!
Dan – I hear your point and I agree. IMHO, writers and actors are in the same fight, but so are other union members in other professions. It’s not as if NBC is GE’s primary business, after all. For my money, the coolest guy I walked with on the WGA picket lines was an airline pilot who rearranged his flight to Amsterdam to carry a sign in front of NBC that said, “Workers’ rights are human rights”. He knows from rollbacks better than any writer to ever walk a line, and he showed his solidarity with his feet. As a SAG member, if God forbid we have to walk, he’s my example of solidarity.
Jimmy – it happening publicly because SAG makes its major decisions democratically. I think we will, after a bit of hashing about, come to the same realization the writers did, and the vast majority of us will fully and unreservedly back our leadership through this challenging period.
As for AFTRA, they should turn over Damages, Curb, Dirt, and the other scripted programming and improvised comedy to SAG. IMHO the only fictional television programming AFTRA should keep jurisdiction over are the local news shows.