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Not that I expect both sides to break through the current stalemate on a contract anytime soon, still the AMPTP and SAG will keep bargaining on a day-to-day basis through at least May 6th. Meanwhile, acting at their request, AFTRA just announced it will keep waiting offstage to begin its bargaining with the Hollywood CEOs clique until May 7th. Hey, AFTRA’s always ready to make any lousy deal it can. (See my previous, Media Moguls Nix SAG Demands; Hollywood In De Facto Features Strike.)
Later in the day, SAG announced it reached an agreement with producers of non-broadcast, educational and industrial material Wednesday for an 18-month extension to the 2005 Producers-Screen Actors Guild Codified Industrial and Educational Contract. This contract covers performers rendering on-camera and voiceover services in sales programs, educational and training videos, informational and promotional messages heard over the telephone or in stores, and other projects that are exhibited outside of the traditional broadcast arena. The deal includes a 3% general rate increase and a .5% increase in the contribution rates into the union’s Pension and Health fund, equaling the Commercials contract rate of 14.8%. The 18-month extended pact becomes effective May 1, 2008, when the current contract expires, and remains effective until October 31, 2009.
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Well, that’s a surprise. I hope it means that things are going a little better than we all think they are.
And since the SAG contract is up on June 30th, AFTRA can’t start stealing those shows until then, right?
Peggy Lane O’Rourke
Oooooh! AH-AH! See?!?! This is all part of the AMPTP’s strategy, too! Do you see what they’re trying to do, now?! They’re trying to trick us into talking more and be nice and give us bottled water in the boardroom and then they’re going to pull the rug out again and go “NYYAAAAAA! Got you again, Rosenberg! HA!!” Then they’ll put out a press release and say all unions are EVIL!!!
TOLDJA!! TOLDJA!! TOLDJA!!
The word on a bunch of sites online (Wall Street Journal to name one, also Silicon Valley Insider) is that SAG is now asking for only a 15% increase in DVD residuals (and not a doubling) and may have cut the increase to the minimum that SAG’s asking for for guest star roles on TV.
I hope that the couple of days the concessions buys SAG gets them something really good on the new media front…the WSJ article describing how movies will be available on iTunes on the same day as DVD releases becomes avaiable plus a Variety article describing how Peter Chernin is dishing at industry conferences on how much time he and Murdoch have obsessed over Hulu and ubiquity of their content says to me that they too know that that is where the fans and viewers are moving to.
Still given those new stories if I were an actor I’d hang tough on my new media demands and not sell out my future even though the current economy stinks.
S.E. Olson
Fans For The WGA
http://community.livejournal.com/wga_supporters
Okay, ladies – put up or shut up.
“Hey, AFTRA’s always ready to make any lousy deal it can.”
Name ONE “lousy deal” AFTRA’s made.
Name it. Put up or shut up, Nikki.
“AFTRA can’t start stealing those shows…”
Name ONE show AFTRA’s “stolen” or has intended to steal.
Name it. Put up or shut up, Peggy.
That’s right Peggy
I’m wondering how many calls and emails SAG got yesterday.
“Bill Gray” who is the same person as “David Jones” their computer has the same I.P. number. They both(same person) were kicked off the sagactor BB.
Here are 15 shows that should be under SAG jurisdiction but were RAIDED by AFTRA (the scumbag union).
List of Network Shows Poached by AFTRA:
1)Til Death – Fox
2)Rules of Engagement – ABC
List of Basic Cable Shows Poached by AFTRA:
3)Sons of Anarchy – FX
4)Always Sunny in Philadelphia – FX
5)Rescue Me – FX
6)Damages – FX
7)Dirt – FX
8)Monarch Cove – Lifetime
9)Side Order – Lifetime
10)Army Wives Lifetime
11)Reno 911 – Com Central
12)Am.Body Shop – Com Central
13)Lil’ Bush – Com Central
14)My Boys – TBS
15)Kill Pit – Spike
You’re right, Bill. No one can name ONE lousy deal AFTRA signed. How about FIFTEEN….
AFTRA is a bargain basement for producers to go to when they want actors at 10 cents on the dollar. Unfortunately too many of our members are hungry enough to take this work and put aside considerations of their long-term future in this business…
Actors get a year or more without residuals (10 – 14 ‘exhibition days’ free) on these AFTRA shows…
Army Wives
Dirt
Damages
I’ve heard of people making $650 for three days work on “Dirt” for Guest Star roles because of the way AFTRA calculates payments (with those ‘rehearsal day’ rates left over from the 1950′s live tv days)
You think anyone on AFTRA’s Hannah Montana is making any money? Only the leads make anything. I’ve seen a contract where someone made under $300 for a day’s work.
Sure some of those people are doing the dreaded AFTRA under-fives (less than five lines) that were always meant for soap-operas. But with SAG, there’s no such thing – an actor is respected – all actors get the same minimums. And yes, I’m talking about cable shows – where most on-camera actors are employed these days, but past action is an indication of what to expect in the future… no one expects anything better will happen to performers in prime time network shows if AFTRA gets a real crack at them.
On a SAG cable show the actors enjoy the same day rates as network actors do. Not with AFTRA. Don’t tell me that “Dirt” would have gone non-union or to Canada to save money – not a chance.
AFTRA negotiated a hugely undercut deal for Nickelodeon live-action shows with six free YEARS of internet streaming. AFTRA also negotiated a hugely undercut deal for Nickelodeon animation before the animation community rose up and demanded changes.
Over on “The Soup” – AFTRA recently tried to call it a ‘news’ show so everyone would be paid less.
Speaking of stealing… in Interactive… many of the producers I work with who used to be exclusively SAG are more and more going with AFTRA.
The list of problems with AFTRA shows is endless, BG. And while we’re busy putting up or shutting up, why don’t YOU put up your real name?
An anonymous opinion has ZERO credibility. Say anything you want if you show your face, but until then, your views on show business have about as much credibility as if they came from an 80 year old convenience store owner from Boise.
Someone using the name ‘Bill Gray” was kicked off of sagactor.org for being an AFTRA shill with a fake name. I’m guessing you’re a trustee of their health and pension plan… which almost no working actor who isn’t a lead in a series could ever qualify for. All that money goes to benefit the broadcasters and vested soap opera performers. Is that why you’re screaming into the wind so loudly?
Yo Bill Gray!
As far as bad deals go, look to “Dirt,” “Zoey 101,” “Hannah Montana” and “The Sarah Silverman Show.” All, shitty deals compared to any SAG covered show.
As far as stolen, see above (Dirt) and a little FX hit called Damages. Both shows that should be covered by SAG contracts.
Aside for Cox and Close, ask the actors how much their replays got, primetime or otherwise. I bet the number you will hear will rhyme with zero.
And don’t even start in with the…well they would of gone non-union without…blah, freaking blah.
There, I named it for you. Get a frame of reference Bill, or just shut up.
Bravo David!
And thank you for taking on the issue of the legitimacy of anonymous opinions on blogs and forums. I agree that anonymous opinions simply don’t carry the weight of signed opinions.
David Sobolov said, “An anonymous opinion has ZERO credibility.”
Poor David. You don’t like the message, you try to invalidate the messenger.
You see, Dave, it’s people like you who *cause* people to wisely hide their identity. Simply put, clearly some people don’t trust you. I sure as hell don’t.
Here’s the deal. Depite yours and Peggy’s pronouncements, the producers will negotiate better rates from AFTRA because, like it or not, that’s their job, i.e., to maximize profits and minimize costs. Rosenberg and Allen are screwing up royally. Absolutely NOTHING says a television show has to be done under a SAG contract. Nothing. So you, Peggy, Nikki, Rosenberg and Doug Allen can carry on and blame the producers all you want… until every damned show is covered under AFTRA under less wages. And you’ll blame everybody but yourselves.
And you will have screwed things up for your fellow SAG actors. Way to go, David. You must be so proud.
Every scripted cable show title you list above, young jedis, is a show that SAG had no relationship with. Should AFTRA a union of 44,000 performers – 35,000 in the actor category – not organize non-union scripted cable? As a SAG & AFTRA member, I think someone should.
To those that keep calling out Anonymous posters saying that their opinions are meaningless with attaching their name…
1) There are many reasons people might want to remain anymous on a public internet blog
2) By responding to them, you obviously felt their opinion was important enough to respond (if you truly feel that anonymous posts are insignificant or carry “zero credibility” – then you would just disregard it as insignificant and incredible and ignore it). By responding to the anonymous poster, you are clearly contradicting youself!
Now, In my opinion, I agree that an Anonymous post does not carry the same weight as a signed post, but it still has value. I have seen some Anonymous posts that clearly are more knowledgeable and insightful than some signed posts.
I have a question…
Regarding the shows that were mentioned above as stolen or poached from SAG by AFTRA. Were those shows ever SAG? Some of them I am pretty sure they are too new to have been covered by SAG. From the B&B fiasco, I learned that AFL-CIO rules requires 2 years before either union can represent a show covered by the other. Now somebody correct me if I am wrong, but for AFTRA to have stolen / poached a show form SAG wouldn’t SAG have to have covered the show previously?
I can understand not liking the terms of AFTRA’s contracts, but to flat out just lie and misrepresent facts about them stealing / poaching shows reduces the credibility of your arguments. (personaly, I find more value in anonymous post that gives me reliable facts than a signed poster that just says anything that pops in his/her head)
“I agree that anonymous opinions simply don’t carry the weight of signed opinions.”
Except when they carry opinions amenable to membershipfirst lemmings?
I am unamazed to read the usual unsubstantiated and false membershipfirst cant rant by the failed and the furious.
Come on, folks, the demonizing and blaming of AFTRA for all things wrong at SAG thanks to the present Hollywood “leadership” hasn’t played effectively over the past year, doesn’t play now, and neither will it play after the deal is done.
Take responsibility for what you yourselves have created, for Pete’s sake!
So, why all this talk about AFTRA? I thought SAG was still negotiating while AFTRA stays on the sidelines. Isn’t this exactly what SAG has been working toward for the past year? Seems the SAG negotiatiors and their supporters have very little confidence in, and respect for their own ability to get a good deal from the producers.
To those who think anonymous posts are meaningless because they don’t attach their name…
Nikki cites unnamed “sources” all the time. She believes that, at least in some cases, people who don’t want their name attached know what they are talking about.
Of course, sometimes they don’t. But that’s true with named sources/posters as well.
I get the sense AFTRA must be paying all you anonymous folks to post here. It keeps the propaganda machine going. Or are these posts by AFTRA staff members trying to keep their jobs? Who knows as long as they hide in the shadows like cowards. Staying anonymous let’s them say anything or attack anyone without having to take responsibility for their words or actions. It’s an easy out and makes this a game for them. But to people who are trying to make a middle class living in this business, it’s life or death.
I sign my name… and I speak for myself as a working performer… not for Membership First, and not for SAG. If SAG were doing what AFTRA does I’d be just as angry at them.
There’s no fiction here. Many people have seen the contracts – even though AFTRA has tried to keep everyone from seeing them. No amount of revisionist history can change reality… although the AFTRA shills will keep on trying until their last breath for their own self-serving reasons.
No currently working middle class performer trying to make a living in scripted entertainment would agree to cut his/her pay as drastically as AFTRA asks them to.
The members don’t get to vote on these individually negotiated undercut deals – AFTRA signs them all on their own.
No one blames the producers – of course they’ll take the cheapest deal they can get. Working performers blame AFTRA for selling their talent short. If I were a producer I’d take the cheapie deals too, who wouldn’t?
Throwing away 50 years of negotiated gains to grab jurisdiction is serves only the institution, not the performers. Why doesn’t AFTRA put its energy into organizing CNN (still a non-union network) and other live news and variety programs their members would love to unionize, and leave scripted entertainment to the professionals at SAG?
David,
I understand that as middle-class earning actor you prefer to work under SAG contracts vs AFTRA. There is a simple solution, just don’t work AFTRA jobs. Clearly, there are many actors (maybe some who aren’t as accomplished as you) that would prefer to work under AFTRA as oppose to not working at all. I notice from all the shows listed in this post they are low-budget productions, if AFTRA did not offer a cheaper alternative to SAG there would be no jobs.
I do not want to get into a back and forth you, because I understand exactly what you are saying from your point of view. I am just trying to point out that all actors don’t share that point of view or circumstances and there are some actors with different circumstances than yours that appreciate the opportunity to work even if it doesn’t pay as much.
On the issue of anonymous posts:
Sarcastic Cynic – Nikki vets her sources, like the good journalist she is. They are not unnamed to her. In effect, she vouches for them, and she’s not posting anonymously. An anonymous person posting online is known to nobody, so nobody is vouching for them. This is why people who post anonymously, or even people who put a name on their posts and don’t link to their own blog or site, carry no credibility. Click on my link, it goes to my blog, where I cross-post most of my contributions to DHD. I have a link from there to my myspace page, where you can find jpg’s of me.
Working Character Actor – IMHO, your response to David Sobolov is may be fairly characterized as passive aggressive. Sobolov in no way threatened you or anyone else, either directly or indirectly. Anonymous posts carry no weight because, in many cases, paid shills hide behind anonymity. Jefferson, Hancock and Adams did not circulate the Declaration of Independence anonymously. I think you get my point.
Tom Ligon – The vast majority of the complaints I have read here about AFTRA have been about AFTRA’s inferior representation of actors, not about blaming AFTRA for SAG’s problems, perceived or otherwise. David Sobolov, I think, did a great job citing numerous examples of this inferior representation. My opinions about AFTRA are public, attributable, and available for anyone to peruse.
As for taking responsibility for what we have created, I would instead prefer to have a dispassionate conversation about where we are now, and how best to move forward to the benefit of all actors. This is why my focus in recent posts has been on the two actors’ unions working together for the best contract possible, and when AFTRA chose to negotiate separately, to encourage them to wait for the more powerful actors’ guild to make a deal first.
I take heart in the news that the AMPTP and SAG are continuing their negotiations, and at the same time am encouraging my guild to stick to its guns.
On the general issue of becoming attributable, quite a few companies offer free blogs accessible to anyone, wherein the blogger may make themselves directly accessible via email, may link to their resumes and other work online, so on. I strongly encourage everyone posting here who wishes to be taken seriously to make themselves attributable, as that will go far in helping everyone reading these posts to separate the wheat (honest bloggers) from the chaff (shills), hence furthering and deepening honest discussion.
Anonymity, too often, is the online refuge of scoundrels.
Hi Dave. My name is Don.
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha ….
Do the SAGites all have a Jan Brady inferiority complex? Or could it be a, “Be Careful What You Wish For,” defensive reaction?
If SAG can’t come up with a good bargain, they have no one to blame but themselves. They wanted to bargain alone, and that is what they got. If they can’t close the deal, it’s their fault; no one else’s.
David,
Nobody’s paying me to post and I sign my name, and I attempt to counter the foolish and destructive anti-AFTRA membershipfirst propaganda that’s landed actors in he fix they are in today.
I’ve made a living working on camera principal roles under SAG, AFTRA, and AEA contracts for forty-five years.
Most of what I’ve read from your side of the fence is fiction – an organized, purposeful campaign for over a year to attack AFTRA. I’ve read every contract I’ve worked – be it SAG, AFTRA or Equity. No one has kept me from seeing them. I’ve had input – on a union level – on nearly every contract I’ve worked.
How dare you put yourself up to speak for middle-class performers? You haven’t the experience to be able to do such a thing. I wouldn’t even put myself up to such a thing.
If you don’t like AFTRA contracts, don’t work them. There are contracts in SAG, AFTRA, and Equity that I choose not to work.
AFTRA has had contracts for “scripted entertainment” since before you were born.
Your anti-AFTRA rhetoric stinks of the membershipfirst talking points you have learned at the feet of the present SAG Hollywood “leadership” meeings.
Wages for actors have been declining for years because, in part, that has been the unfortunate macro trend in the economy in general. The recipe: Weak or non-existent unions, larger and more powerful corporate conglomerates. Result: downward pressure on wages. So five years ago: $1650/day for a “one-day” guest star. Last year, Touchstone was saying to all actors $850/day. Take it or leave it. And there’s nothing SAG can do about it. Because when I showed up for a job on the “Ugly Betty” set under those conditions, they seemed to have cast all the parts with quality actors. It sucks and it takes more and more effort just to make health benefits, but if Alan Rosenberg thinks he got leverage with these guys…well he doesn’t. And there’s nothing he can do about it. Corporations don’t give people more money because they want to be nice. They do it because they have to.
Lame…gettin’ bogged down in the anonymity question.
SO much easier that dealing with the real issues, huh?
Tom can dis my experience all he wants, but despite my work in about 120 episodes of network television animation and roles in around 30 videogames over the last 10 years (not all of which show up on IMDB), I don’t claim to speak for anyone but myself. I form my own opinions. I’m at no ones ‘feet.’
The AFTRA propaganda ministry folks use buzz-words and phrases meant to belittle when describing SAG leadership and anyone who is pro-SAG like “learned at the feet” and “jackboots” and “cabal” It’s just hilarious 1950′s era McCarthy-esque language meant to discount the authority of the person posting the information. But it’s much easier to throw stones than to add anything of substance, so I understand.
AMPTP loves loves loves having two actors unions to play against each other. And Chris Grove is dead-on. Corporations only give people money because they have to and with two actors unions, they can divide and conquer ’till the cows come home as long as AFTRA stays in the game making their own discounted deals.
AFTRA is terrified of its membership – thus the tone of the posts by the AFTRA supporters here. It’s angry and it’s defensive. SAG tries to work for and work with performers and protects its members rather than protect ITSELF.