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With Comic-Con fast approaching (July 24-27) and all the Hollywood studios getting ready, I understand that Warner Bros has been nervously monitoring the deteriorating situation at its subsidiary DC Comics. There could be a major shake-up -- especially if Time Warner CEO Jeff Bewkes keeps cleaning house inside the Big Media corp. There's a lot of chatter, from comic book circles like io9.com to trade media like Publishers Weekly, that DC Comics Senior VP and Executive Editor Dan DiDio, who oversees the DC Universe line of superheroes, is in major trouble. I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the comic book culture. But my own reporting, and others' coverage, show the following:
The problem isn't just that, under DiDio's leadership, fanboys are disappointed with the directions of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and other characters. (How dopey of DiDio to come out with a new series Decisions this September where the superheroes take political stands timed to the election.) Little wonder that fanboys are selling "Dan DiDio Must Die" t-shirts. But also average sales of the DCU line are down more than 20% from a year ago, and DiDio has lost a big chunk of existing readers in a year while deliberately failing to reach out to new ones.
But the biggest bad news is that DC's much hyped Summer 2008 release Final Crisis, the 7-issue miniseries, isn't the huge hit it was supposed to be. Comic Book Resources reviewed, "This isn't a disaster just yet, but six more issues of this caliber and this could spell the end of the sales power for a company event at DC Comics. Final Crisis, indeed." Not to mention those misleading full-page DC Comics ads promoting Final Crisis by referring to an upcoming "Batman R.I.P.'' storyline. That could have unleashed a box office backlash against Warner Bros' all-important The Dark Knight release next month. ("We can't kill him during a big movie year,'' DiDio finally made clear.)
With DC Universe so much a part of Warner Bros' bottom line, getting DC Comics back on track has to be a top priority. For one thing, the movie studio's biggest DC characters remain in development limbo -- Superman, Wonder Woman, the Justice League. Only Batman has an ongoing live action franchise. But whose fault is that? Warner Bros Pictures Group prez Jeff Robinov and Warner Bros prez/COO Alan Horn (who still retains greenlight authority and therefore has to share the blame for this) remain paralyzed by indecision, chaotically starting and stopping work on scripts for the biggest DC characters. 
Meanwhile, Marvel is about to exploit the hell out of its characters, primo or not. Right after Iron Man's success, Marvel Studios announced an ultra-ambitious film development slate through 2011, culminating in an “Avengers-Themed Summer”, introducing a Captain America film and then uniting heroes Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America and Thor in a single film. Heck, if I were Bewkes, I'd shake up Warner Bros as well as DC Comics.
To add insult to injury, Marvel's Secret Invasion comic book was #1 in May, while DC's Final Crisis was only #2. Worst of all, DC had only three comics in that month's top 10 best-sellers. As one Internet commenter opined on io9.com: "DC needs to make this move just to show that they do in fact care about their product, and appease fan boy rage. Even if the higher-ups at TW really like Mr. DiDio's work, the sales numbers and overall editorial inconsistancies under his recent tenure has caused public perception to view him as being incompetent." DiDio, who took over in 2004, can't be happy his current contract expires soon. Or that Jimmy Palmiotti is being handicapped as his replacement. (Palmiotta is currently an exclusive writer for DC Comics and formerly the co-founder of Event Comics and co-head of Marvel's Marvel Knights imprint with friend and current Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada. Fanboys also suggest Joey Cavalieri, a veteran of both comics companies, should be considered.) Now the question is whether DiDio will exit before Comic-Con, or after, or at all -- and how much of a distraction this will be at the confab.
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Long time reader, first time commenter.
Surprised you are talking about this, Nikki but at the same time, I’m not. This summer, DC has the potential to do something that Marvel have been doing for months now and that is milk off a franchise with it’s books.
Everything with the words ‘Iron’ and ‘Man’ has flown off the shelves in comic stores across the States and I’m sure the Hulk titles will do the same thing considering the numbers the movie is getting.
Time Warner are probably seeing what’s going on right now in the comics (a storyline that could potentially be replacing Bruce Wayne as Batman) and they’re really concerned about how this will appeal to not just the fanboys but the casual comic fan. What was the point of seeing Bruce Wayne in the film if he’s a blivering wreck in the comics?
As someone who has only heard interviews and panels with Dan, he could be judged as a really nice guy. He listens and understands what people say but at the same time…the decisions that have been taken recently have really dragged down his reputation as the head editor. Having your ass kicked by Marvel especially during a big event written by one of your most famous writers doesn’t help things at all.
Of course, he shouldn’t be the guy talking all the crap..but at the same time, the buck stops at the guy in charge and the shake up might not just effect DiDio’s job.
This has been a rough two weeks with DC, also adding their “no comment” lack-of-responses to their firing of veteran Batman/Robin writer Chuck Dixon, and the resigning of Senior Vice President of business development John Nee.
Rumors speculate that Dixon was let go from the company in relation to the upcoming “Batman RIP” storyline in which Bruce Wayne will retire and the current Robin could be his replacement. Dixon was writing Robin at the time of his letting go.
No reasons as to why Nee left just yet..
OK, as a fanboy and a Sundance-goer, let me jump in here with my two cents:
1. Marvel’s been eating DC’s lunch for years at the comic book shops with its monthly titles (and Marvel’s EIC, Joe Quesada, is as widely loved/hated as DiDio–his recent reboot of Spider-Man, wiping out about three decades of continuity–a big fanboy thing–by pretending that Peter Parker never married Mary Jane in the comics).
2. Marvel’s numbers are down, too. Comics are too f*cking expensive. There’s a glut of titles, and many of them are just shit. Secret Invasion, Marvel’s big summer title with a Skrull invasion of Earth, was set up far better than DC’s thus-far-ponderous Final Crisis–which so far has killed one veteran DC character, Martian Manhunter, with the promise of bringing the Silver-Age Flash, dead since 1985, back to life.
3. DiDio, like Quesada, seems to have an outsized view of his own talents. He’s got some big-name comics guys in his stable–writers and artists jump between DC and Marvel with great frequency, so there’s a pretty good balance between the two–but he has shepherded too many deaths (a dime a dozen in comics) and too many reboots to keep the long-term fan happy.
4. Its Warners’ fault, not DiDio’s, that more of its movies haven’t gotten the greenlight. I wish Josh Whedon had not walked from Wonder Woman, but are we really any worse off for not having seen Bryan Singer’s sequel to Superman (the first one was ponderous and redundant–no more Luthor or land-grabbing schemes, please) or George Miller’s Justice League (which sounds SO iffy). I have great hopes for The Dark Knight, but no desire to see Christian Bale’s Batman in a team movie.
5. Marvel Studios exceeded expectations with Iron Man, but The Incredible Hulk was still just a B-movie with A-level talent. And among the recent pool of movies from other studios Spider-Man 3 was awful; both Fantastic Four movies reeked; X-Men 3 disappointed; and Daredevil was a waste of good characters and storylines. Captain America (great potential) and Thor (which will be REALLY difficult to get right) will prove whether Iron Man was just an anomaly of getting the right director and actor together.
So what am I trying to say here? For the good of the comics, not Hollywood, a change at the top of DC would not be a bad thing. But the nature of comic-book publishing has changed–and anyone who follows DiDio is going to face the same set of problems, with no quick fixes in sight.
Wonder Woman has had so many starts and stops because Jeff Robinov is still trying to figure out how to make it with a male actor as its lead.
The sad thing is, there are so many great properties at DC – “Preacher,” “100 Bullets,” “Fables,” etc. – but the DC/Warner Brothers deal has become known to comic creators as “golden handcuffs.” While doing a book at Oni or IDW or Dark Horse can mean after-market bucks selling the thing as a property to Hollywood, if you do something with DC, it means that unless HBO is interested or Warners Feature Development is interested, you’ll never get it done at another studio.
And, beyond “Constantine,” Warners hasn’t really shown an interest in mining their comics library beyond the capes.
You want to make DC compete? Warners should take chances on the ACTUAL best shit in the DC canon. While yes, there’s a “Y: The Last Man” movie coming, what happened to “The Losers?” “Transmetropolitan” is probably too expensive, but “Preacher” is one of the greatest comics of all time.
People are regarding Marvel comics with fresh eyes because of the reinvention. There hasn’t been an “Iron Man” movie before – it’s all new. Yeah, the comic book has existed for a lot longer than “Preacher” or “Fables,” but where DC Comics has Marvel absolutely destroyed is with the creative talent on the DC/Vertigo side – some of the best fiction writing being done today.
If Warners started looking into the books that sell 15,000 to 20,000 copies a month rather than relying on stale, old warhorses like Bats and Supes that – admittedly – can move 200,000 to 300,000 copies a month just because they’re familiar (but for how much longer?) – then the WB could potentially show why they’re lightyears ahead of Marvel in the intellectual property department. Seriously – where’s Marvel going to go after Avengers? Nowhere (well, “Ant Man,” hopefully) as they’re tapped out.
For DC, if Warners would only start seriously considering material based on “story” rather than how many toys it sold last year and how many more it would sell with a new movie, THEN they wouldn’t be in this position.
I understand the estate of Wonder Woman creator Dr. William Moulton Marston has somehow managed to retain a lot of control over the character and have differences of opinion with the studio and the revolving door full of filmmakers working on it as to any movie version. At least that’s what I’ve heard, and I’m about as far out of the loop as anyone these days.
Now I have to say that I don’t think DC is helping itself with the never ending series of “Crisis”-style events that went from being seen as a serious attempt to make sense out of 70 years of DC continuity, into a marketing gimmick, and then into a source of apathy.
That 70 years of continuity is also turning off new readers, and old readers who would like to get back into comics, but can’t get by with the relatively simple back-story they knew when they were kids. If you haven’t been deep in it your entire life, without a break, you are so out of it.
Marvel’s trying to win over new fans with their Ultimate Marvel line of comics designed for younger and more casual readers, and that’s helping them reach new markets and fans.
Another problem is comics distribution. I haven’t seen a comic book at any local convenience stores or drugstores since the 1980s. Most people don’t have a comic shop in their immediate community, and casual readers don’t want the hassle of shopping for them online, when a catchy cover on a rack in their local Kwik-E-Mart could have caught their eye and made the sale.
Comics went from being a mass market, to a niche market. The movies have the potential to reopen the mass market, but it would require a new business model, distribution system, and possibly even a complete reboot of their whole superhero mythology.
The DC movie division is completely separate from the DC comics division. That is why there is paralysis there. Can’t blame the comics people for that.
That DC is being beaten in sales by Marvel is nothing new. That’s been happening regularly since the 70s. In the past 5 years, DC has only beaten Marvel in sales in about 4 months. Sales are mostly down at Marvel, too. It’s the nature of the business to have downturns, and with the economy in the dumps, pleasure reading is one of the places where people cut back.
Replace Didio, then give DC more autonomy over film productions…no more Superman Returns/Catwoman debacles, please. Or better yet, spin-off DC, entirely. Split-adjusted, don’t Marvel shares trade around 3x a share of TWX?
One thing that isn’t mentioned is that in terms of independent (non superhero) properties, DC is WAY ahead of the game. Y The Last Man, Sandman, ExMachina, Preacher, Scalped all originate under the DC umbrella and have long lives at bookstores and on Amazon, where their editions go into sixth, seventh, eighth printings. These are projects that often garner development deals and other tie-ins and licensing opportunities. Marvel just has their superheroes, and that’s it, really.
DC’s “creator-owned” (but usually Time Warner CONTROLLED) backlist is the most impressive in American comics. Period. And the upcoming WATCHMEN movie should underline that point.
And the monthly periodical sales (which are definitely in decline) are only the tip of the financial iceberg for comics, which is increasingly becoming a backlist-driven business.
None of this has to do with Didio, though, who has just not done that good a job with his responsibilities. One big problem at DC is the amount of heavy lifting accorded to their star fanwank writer Geoff Johns. Johns’ books are unreadable mazes of continuity that pay endless, pointless homage to decades-old and obscure stories and themes.
DC doesn’t publish a single book that would be attractive to someone who liked the Nolan Batman films and wants a similar experience.
DC could have a huge film franchise in the “Sandman” series, if they’d only realize what a huge goldmine it is. I can’t believe no one has done anything good with that yet.
As a former long-time DC reader it is really disheartening to see how far their comics have fallen. As for seeing more DC characters on screen, Warners need to take a hard look at how Marvel is rebooting their film franchises. There needs stronger, consistent creative control from the comic side and less corporate intrigue. Besides Batman, I am looking forward to Watchmen, that should be a portal of what JLA could have been.
Regarding the DC vs. Marvel numbers. It’s a seesaw. Think of television ratings. One network dominates for a time, then another. Same is true of the two big comics publishers.
And movies into comics? That’s an animal unto itself, one that can easily be tamed.
While every fanboy and fangirl knew of Iron Man long before the movie, how many theater goers were aware of the character before they saw the television commercials? Not many I would guess.
DC has an amazing stable of titles beyond Superman and Batman. Lesser titles that have a dedicated following because they have GOOD STORYLINES! and those good stories can translate easily to box office.
They just need someone on the Coast who understands film AND comics.
I think there are lots of misconceptions in this post, simply from Nikki’s obvious (and admitted) lack of familiarity with the comic book industry.
First of all, any money to be made is in the licensing; goodness knows that’s the only reason DC Comics still exists. And DC Comics has nothing to do with any of that stuff — i.e., movies — other than being the source material. Whether DiDio’s contract gets renewed in October or not has nothing to do with, well, anything other than floppies that aren’t going to sell very many copies anyway, regardless of who’s in charge.
Marvel has been kicking DC’s ass for years and years and more years now. This is nothing new. Saying, “Worst of all, DC had only three comics in that month’s top 10 best-sellers,” is just silly when that’s been how the sales figures generally break down and have for years. DC generally has a handful of titles in the Top 10, with the rest being Marvel fare.
The fact that FINAL CRISIS was the second-best-selling comic last month actually means it *is* a huge hit. A DC book that beat everything but one book by Marvel? Definitely not a failure. Especially seen as it was coming after the trash that was COUNTDOWN.
So it doesn’t match continuity, as that CBR review was complaining about. Pretty much every complaint in that review can probably be said of every super-huge-it-will-change-everything-you-know summer crossover event. They’re like TV sweeps — promising huge-you-can’t-miss-it-change but really just serve up the same boring drek there was last February/May/November that didn’t actually change anything.
Comic book fans are never satisfied. To be honest, even if FINAL CRISIS was the absolute very best damn thing ever written and selling 250,000 copies a month and going to reprints, the fanboys would STILL find things to rail against and use as evidence to call for DiDio’s head.
That’s not to say that DC doesn’t have some creative problems. The line could definitely be better; there’s a lot of bad stuff there. They had something of a little renaissance several years back when they had lots of top-quality talent turning out really good stuff (which, interestingly, didn’t sell anywhere near what the superhero-by-numbers crap being published by Marvel at the time were pulling). But I do wonder if, as I saw Steven Grant suggest somewhere, if DC wouldn’t just go with another outsider to replace DiDio instead of turning to a freelance writer.
But when it comes right down to it, no one will be affected but the small niche audience who still reads comics. I mean, the top-selling book (SECRET INVASION) is only selling 200,000 copies and the only books that sell more than 100,000 copies are all in the Top 10. That means twice as many people watched ALIENS IN AMERICA as read all of the books in the Top 10 last month — assuming the readers are all different, when all 10 books probably share a huge chunk of readers.
Forget creative issues. A couple years ago a stock analyst for a big wall street firm stated that DC’s library of IP was the most underutilized (and hence undervalued)corporate asset currently being traded. Since then TW has done almost nothing to extract the value from their library. It’s not Dan’s fault but rather Alan and Jeff’s complete failure to get it in gear.
For what is actually going on with DC and Dan DiDio, make sure you read Lying In The Gutters on Monday NOON PST, 3PM EST, 8PM BST…
The big problem with DC, and no one seems to be mentioning it, is that people like me (and apparently 25% of their readership) quit when they suddenly had all their titles become part of a massive and convoluted cross over storyline. They create a situation wherein you can only follow their series if you know the ins and outs and history of every character, and you’re required to buy several more titles that you have no interest in just to fill in the current gaps. Whatever Crisis. 52. Fuck you. I realize there’s a simple reason for this. If Joe Reader has to buy ten books a month to keep up, then Joe Reader is buying more books than usual.
But what if I, and the anyone with a brain, doesn’t like being forced to read all that shit? What if I just want to buy the character’s I like? I buy my books based on the writing, not some insane desire to keep up with crazy continuity and these huge complicated stories. That’s why I love how you can read something like Runaways or Punisher and whatever the big stupid crossover is at the moment is out in the periphrary. No one gives a fuck about that stuff.
Besides their Vertigo titles, Ex Machina, and Blue Beetle, I’m done with DC. I don’t have the time, patience, or desire to throw my cash at all that bullshit. And it’s clearly not just me. The decisions DC has made in the last two years have almost made me quit reading comics altogether. How boneheaded can they be?
I have had major problems with DC Comics recently. They have become to insular, to attached to random continuity. They also have a bad habit of adding scenes that relate to some grander story into stories that have no relation to it, or starting a story one place and ending it somplace else (see the recent Titans #1, which somehow was part 2 even though it was the debut issue, and nowhere does it explain where part 1 is). The comics don’t seem to enjoy a very tight consistent continuity, seeing as how during the Final Crisis story, no regular titles will be affected. I know they will say so fans don’t have to pick up every book to get a full story, but really thats a load of BS. Seeing as how they are releasing a steady stream of mini-series and one-shots that you have to pick up to complete the story. It also makes it hard to get a single interpretation of characters, seeing them in so many differing situations and not exactly acting in a consistent tone. It’s also pretty bad when the writer of your big event has to defend his work, because those in charge neglected to follow his initial outline, and didn’t properly set anything up to flow smoothly into Final Crisis #1, it’s bad when you have to all of a sudden come up with a new comic (DC Universe #0), to try and explain stuff that should have been explained in your weekly series (Countdown) leading up to your big event. It makes Final Crisis feel like it doesn’t matter, and that it’s happening in some small section of the comic universe apart from the regular titles. Doesn’t that kind of defeat the purpose of a company wide storyline. Marvel at least has maintained a constant tone throughout their titles. Although someone may bring up the recent Spider-Man storyline, which did not in fact do as much damage as people seem to think it did, at least we ended up with a much more enjoyable spider-man comic. Not some quasi-cosmic spider-totem BS, and depressingly dark stories. Spider-Man has always been its best when it is a lighter toned book, so that when something dark happens it has a weight to it. DC as it is now, seems to cater to much to the past, well not explaining the present very well. It uses the past as a crutch and forcing things to fit way to often. I am really hoping that Final Crisis is indeed the final one for quite awhile, as it has just become a reason to constantly restart too much and has really distorted the DC continuity.
Wait?
I don’t get this…
Where is the research Nikki and others?
The single biggest problem at DC Movies is the one guy running it- a bumbling maroon named Gregory Noveck who spent two years acting like he was Avi Arad and actually owned the place before DC Head Paul Levitz smacked him down. I personally know at least 15 filmmakers and 30 DC creators who wish him gone. He is a self absorbed idiot who acts like he has power and knowledge and he is the main reason. If an on lot producer says they want to do Fables, well Noveck says “NO I have other plans” Plans that lead no where.
Robinov and Horn don’t know all the characters and it is not their job.
Noveck was supposed to cross pollinate and instead he has just acted like a know nothing jerk.
I think DiDio’s worst decision was letting Grant Morrison become DC’s unofficial creative director (in addition to writing FINAL CRISIS and BATMAN R.I.P.). Morrison’s a genius, but his ideas are too esoteric to rebuild the whole DC universe around them. And his work requires so much knowledge of past continuity that it’s hard for new readers to jump on. I’m reading FINAL CRISIS and have no fricking idea what’s going on.
Wow, comic book fans come out in force. I gotta love it, I learned something new every day
Thanks for all the informative information guys.
Honestly, like Nikki, I know nada about Comic Books, the only thing I know of is some of the movies are based off the comic books. Batman, Superman, Spiderman, IronMan and so forth, but as for the detail part of it, I am inexperienced.
But what I wanted to ask, is I hear a lot of complaints on different blogs about how DC/Warner messed up Smallville. How they made Clark into this pussy whipped of a man pining after Lana.. That Clark and Lex were never really friends to begin with (according to the comics) Again I know nothing really about the foundation of comics.
But how messed up is Smallville? Did they really screw the series up?
Too bad this guy at Warner can’t clean the house of the CW executives lol
Rich Johnston, you are such a whore and that’s why I love you mate!
As to the article at hand, I think its just a matter of TPTB in charge of TW don’t know what to do with DC. It would be completely different if DC were independent of TW in regards to their film opportunities. But being owned by a big corporate monster that deals not only with DC but also mainstream movies and television. Time Warner needs to take a page from Marvel’s playbook and split off the DC film franchises into its own development unit. Jeff can still get final say and Warner Bros. can still be the distributor but they need a specialized division to nurse these grossly neglected properties through development. One thing Marvel did with Iron Man is bring some of their top writers to Hollywood to meet with producers and help with the story. Guys that live and breathe in the comics world and know their shit. Warner Bros. and DC by extension is too much of a top dog run company. For the comics properties they need to let the folks that know the material contribute to the films. Obviously Dan Didio isn’t doing something right. For as much shit as Joey Q gets over at Marvel you don’t see “Joe Quesada Must Die” T-shirts at the Marvel convention panels. So something is obviously wrong in River City. I don’t agree that Joe Palmiotti is the right choice though. He’s a great writer (alongside writing partner Justin Gray) but I don’t think he’s the right guy for the job.
As for San Diego Comic-con… well I’m having some “Dan Didio Is Dead” T-shirts printed up just in case.
(Nikki, sorry for the double post, browser was acting up!)
TV Fan, DC Comics really has nothing to with the Smallville series… or any tv show or movie, that’s WB and whatever production company the property is at (ie. Batman with Chris Nolan, Superman with Bryan Singer/Jon Peters, etc.)
For those who aren’t aware, Smallville is a mess for many reasons, probably the finest expert at explaining this is novelist Neal Bailey, who has critiqued and analyzed every episode.
Smallville also remains on the air because behind Americas Next Top Model and WWE Smackdown, it is the CW’s top show averaging near a 3.0 rating each week. Most of its fans are teenage girls, not comic fans.
DC is also to blame because unlike Marvel that can have books starring 40+ year-old characters easily accessible to new readers, DC does not.
In 1986, DC had a “reboot” of their superhero universe (Crisis), erasing their previous 50 year history and restarting from scratch. However, in 2006 there was a comics event that undid just that (Infinite Crisis) and now the past 20 years of “revised history” created with new readers in mind is now gone, replaced with the old past.
“Marvel at least has maintained a constant tone throughout their titles. Although someone may bring up the recent Spider-Man storyline, which did not in fact do as much damage as people seem to think it did, at least we ended up with a much more enjoyable spider-man comic.”
Who are you trying to kid? Spider man is much worse off than it even been thanks to Joey Q personal problems with Marriage and integrity. The sales is a good indication considering that they’re falling down the chart every month. Spider man used to be a top ten book and now its almost out of the top 20. Spider man is in the shape DC is now, so don’t give me Spider man is more enjoyable now bit because that’s BS and the sales say otherwise.
“DC could have a huge film franchise in the ‘Sandman’ series, if they’d only realize what a huge goldmine it is. I can’t believe no one has done anything good with that yet.”
I’m not a comic book fanboy, but I think the statement above is illustrative of the problem with them.
Sandman? Never heard of it/him.
My recognition of DC Comic characters more or less begins and ends with the Justice League of America as it was depicted in the cartoon “Super Friends.”
DC Comics has Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and the Green Lantern. Toss in Captain Marvel/Shazam and that’s about the limit of their marketable characters for film.
Marvel has Spider-Man, Iron Man, Blade, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, and the Punisher. That’s just what’s been made, and it hasn’t been an unanimous hit parade.
Hopefully, I’m wrong, but Thor doesn’t sound like a box office winner to me. Captain America? Maybe. “[U]niting heroes Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America and Thor in a single film?” That sounds cluttered as hell – like “Batman & Robin,” but hopefully without the camp.
I know Comic-Con is considered an important part of marketing, but the impact of fanboys, at best, is made on weekend one and is done at that point.
Harold – those may be the characters you know, but DC has actually managed to introduce more characters to younger generations via animated and live action shows produced more recently than the Superfriends. I’d say, at the very least, you’d have to add Green Arrow, Supergirl/Batgirl, the Teen Titans and Martian Manhunter to your list.
To actually gage the most popular comics titles/publisher, someone would need to persuade Rapidshare to open up their server logs…
Rich Johnston? Great! Well, at least half of what he writes will be true, but good luck figuring out which half.
“DC Comics has Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, and the Green Lantern. Toss in Captain Marvel/Shazam and that’s about the limit of their marketable characters for film.” Comment by Harold — June 22, 2008 @ 1:03 pm
Sometimes it is better to remain silent and have people think you are ignorant than open your mouth and prove it to them.
I also want to completely agree with FairyTaleListener about his assessment about Greg Noveck. With a small caveat, the boy’s a cock-blocker on the lot because he has no real power. He can’t greenlight a movie so he’s just a suit wasting everybody’s time.
Harold,the biggest problem with “comic book movies” is the fact that BOTH Marvel and DC are only willing to adapt the “big-name” characters- and as a result, are wearing out their welcome with overfamiliarity, while pointedly ignoring anything new. ( I had to laugh at the hype over SUPERMAN RETURNS being “the first new Superman movie in over 20 years- because, with SUPERBOY and LOIS AND CLARK and SMALLVILLE and MULTIPLE animated series, the character has been on TV pretty much non-stop for the past quarter of a century!)Even when somebody does adapt a lesser known strip like BLADE or HELLBOY or SIN CITY (all of which were very profitable, you’ll notice), they’re still not exactly “new” (all three were at LEAST a decade old when their film versions premiered).Seriously, Hollywood is going after characters who are forty and fifty years old (hell, this year is Superman’s 70th Anniversary!) And frankly, even though my own PERSONAL tastes lean towards the “old stuff”, all logic tells me that young audiences- you know, the ones that ACTUALLY GO TO SEE MOVIES IN THEATRES- would go NUTS if you started adapting comics that actually originated IN THEIR OWN LIFETIME.(At the very least, would it be a bad idea to find a comic with a good story that would translate well to film, rather than trying to remould some continuity-heavy wreck whose fan following will scream if you make changes? After all, the stuff that’s selling in bookstores tends to be the comics that apeal most to new readers…)
I’m with Writer on hating crossovers. But DC can’t win with those. If they don’t hook them into all the books, then people whine about how the miniseries “doesn’t mean anything” and “doesn’t affect anything.” But if they do hook them in, then it means readers have to buy a bunch of crap they aren’t interested in to get the whole story. It’s a lose-lose proposition.
(Plus it makes it harder for readers to jump back in. I haven’t bought monthlies since Wally West was the Flash, and I’m now too lost to try to jump back in.)
By trying to please the fanboys, DC pleases no one, not even the fanboys. People complain when stuff changes, but they’ll complain if it doesn’t change. People complain when things don’t line up with something that happened 30 years ago, but people complain about the books being continuity-heavy.
Anyway, Harold, I will second Sherry’s comment about the younger generations thanks to the Justice League/Teen Titans cartoons. They’ve got lots of marketable stuff far more recent (and probably more well-known nowadays) than the horribly campy Superfriends.
And they could definitely do so much more with non-pervert suit properties such as SANDMAN, FABLES, etc. That’s where DC could really shine as opposed to Marvel. They’ve got stuff that doesn’t have to be a CGI-driven, blow ‘em up fest in bright, goofy-looking costumes that look silly on a movie screen.
I mean, TV shows, for example, are getting made out of paranormal romance/urban fantasy stuff like the Sookie Stackhouse novels. Stuff like FABLES could easily appeal to the same audience. My point is, they’ve got stuff in the Vertigo imprint that could be marketable in ways that don’t depend on having a built-in male audience that just wants to see stuff blow up.
Marvel, on the other hand, has only got superheroes. Think how easy it can be for the CAPTAIN AMERICA and THOR movies to be totally laughable. Marvel lucked out with IRON MAN in that it was fairly easily adapted for the modern world. But Cap in bright red and blue throwing that goofy-looking shield around? THOR? Yeah, right. It all just screams, “Cheese.”
Doesn’t TW own HBO? Are they that oblivious to the kind of venue HBO provides for untested material? Vertigo’s Fables and Preacher are virtually tailor-made for HBO, which, by the by, is losing its quality program edge to Showtime.
Dan Didio isn’t the only one who needs a good helping of scrutiny.
Well, HBO has apparently toyed with a series adapting PREACHER, but there ’s probably no enthusiasm for it from the brass there (Comics writer Brian Michael Bendis, a guy whose stuff has great “crossover” potential, said that an exec there flat out told him “HBO doesn’t do comics”- probably just part of that snobby, better-than-TV attitude that stopped working for them a couple of years ago.)
Sherry — June 22, 2008 @ 1:49 pm: “DC has actually managed to introduce more characters to younger generations”
cst — June 22, 2008 @ 2:39 pm: “And frankly, even though my own PERSONAL tastes lean towards the “old stuff”, all logic tells me that young audiences- you know, the ones that ACTUALLY GO TO SEE MOVIES IN THEATRES- would go NUTS if you started adapting comics that actually originated IN THEIR OWN LIFETIME.”
Neena — June 22, 2008 @ 2:42 pm: “Anyway, Harold, I will second Sherry’s comment about the younger generations”
ReelBusy — June 22, 2008 @ 2:07 pm: “Sometimes it is better to remain silent and have people think you are ignorant than open your mouth and prove it to them.”
Okay, I should have known better. There are only fanboys commenting on Nikki’s post and as eveyone knows “market to the fanboys, but engage them at your peril.”
Other than ReelBusy’s remark, I will address the others with this comment about comic books and their (non-existant) young readers:
“I don’t expect the babymen to ever see what I’m talking about, they can’t. Now not all fans are babymen, but 80% must be. And thier taste is the real issue as I see it. Since they can’t emotionally move on they must drag down these children’s concepts with their adult fantasies. But the fact is their taste is not the taste of a large pool of average readers, it’s the taste of the fetishist, the niche collector. And they are the fans who drag boxes at cons have graying temples. Sometimes it’s a dad with his some or kids, but more often than not I see hardly any kids at cons and no kids in the comic shop outside of Free comic book day. The kids I see reading comics are in Borders reading manga. But the sad fact is since no new kids in any real number are coming into the hobby of comics and falling in love with them for a few years and since 90-95% of retailers are the worst kind of dumb businessman you can imagine, who don’t seek to build more customers, and definitely not kids, it’s a double whammy.”
This guy wrote it. I rearranged some of the sentences to group them together on similar topics (e.g., “babymen” are adult comic book fans, their tastes and hang-ups have damaged an industry they claim to love, etc.), but didn’t change a word.
So, no. Young audiences will not go nuts if you started adapting comics that actually originated “IN THEIR OWN LIFETIME,” because in addition to ever decreasing comic book sales, fewer kids are reading them.
I agree that DC FILMS is just not what it should be, but who is to blame in this situation? DC Comics, Greg Noveck, Alan Horn or Time Warner corporate? I mean look at Marvel. Their autonomy is just proof positive that with the right creative backing, good films based on comic’s material can make it. I think there have been many, many valid attemps made on DC’s end (Teen Titans, Flash, Green Arrow, Ocean, Red..) but I’ve never seen them come to fruition.
I am not certain, though, if any blame can be laid on DC Comics as an entity for their film and tv decisions, after all, unlike Marvel, they can’t finance their own product so they are left to the devices of their parent company, Time Warner and Warner Bros. Seeing things like Fables and Sandman or Preacher or whatever at HBO would be amazing, but would the studio ever let that happen? I’m not sure. I would hope so. As a fan though, I can’t wait for the day it does happen, and they get it right.
The “DiDio must die” t-shirts were a parody of a smaller ad campaign within DC’s comics “Jimmy Olsen must die.” A fan made one and gave it to DiDio at a comic book convention, where DiDio put on the t-shirt.
Issues of comics come out once a month, mostly, with a staggered schedule so there is new product each week. Somebody saying they are reading Final Crisis is really saying they read the first issue. The second issue is due out this coming Wednesday. I don’t know how you judge a story based on 1/7th of the story.
People who say they quit buying comics because of the constant crossovers are saying that they don’t buy DC or Marvel. Marvel’s current crossover is going to crossover into nearly 100 titles over the next few months—at $3 or $4 an issue.
it is UNBELIEVABLE there isn’t a Green Lantern movie in production. It would be easy as hell to make, he is better known than people think, and sequels could open up to include the Green Lantern Corps. Somebody creative could really run with it, and it would be a good time, not necessarily the ‘dark superhero’ turn.
And where the hell is a Doctor Strange movie?
Didio came in years back and raised sales significantly, then presided over a number of very popular “event” comics, including the “52″ series, which showed that weekly comics can work creatively and financially. So despite recent problems at DC, Didio deserves respect for all the considerable good that happened under his watch (if indeed it is over: I will believe it when I see it).
I would agree that Marvel outselling DC is a non-event. It is status quo and so Marvel’s Big Event (SECRET INVASION) beating DC’s (FINAL CRISIS) is hardly a surprise. Pulling quotes from the aforementioned blogs about FINAL CRISIS skews the reaction to the series towards the kinds of readers who seem to exist solely to kvetch (KVETCHING ON INFINITE EARTHS if you will). In the end, FINAL CRISIS, as written by star writer Grant Morrison, an heir to Jack Kirby’s rather epic creativity, will sell gangbusters, as will some of its tie-in titles. So blaming Didio for such inevitabilities seems petty and pointless to me.
Neena – THOR is “cheese?” It is heavily based on Norse Mythology. Is that cheesy too? Is Lord of the Rings ‘cheesy?” Fantasy in general? And how is Captain America, when taken in the context of the Marvel “universe” – any more or less goofy that Superman’s outside underwear, Batman’s bondage gear or Green Lantern’s “magic ring?” It’s all about treating the properties with respect (and landing great directors, cast too). With the 1960’s BATMAN tv show in mind, many people were totally (and understandably) skeptical of Burton’s movie version (starring “comedian” Michael Keaton) prior to its debut. Why not give long-standing genre material the benefit of the doubt instead of going the jaded route?
The poster who indicated that IRON MAN is a big “name” property is off base. IRON MAN had scant mainstream brand recognition but it proved that such dark horses can become smash hits if smartly made. Same goes for DC’s IP library: nobody knows who the frak BLUE BEETLE is (or what CHECKMATE, CHASE, MANHUNTER, FABLES, PREACHER, or SCALPED are), but his most recent incarnation as a teen from El Paso, COULD do well as a movie or television (think BUFFY or REAPER) series if TW could get its act together. Eventually, TW will get on track (and it’s animated output has been top notch for over a decade).
This is still relatively early days for both companies in terms of movies/tv, with Marvel – as has often been the case since the early 1960s – blazing the trail ahead of TW’s DC stable.
Harold, you’re still making the same mistake as Marvel and DC are- you think that it’s all about cashing in on presold names. You ARE right about kids not reading comics- but that just means they aren’t reading SUPERMAN and BATMAN either.Complaints about superheroes seeming “cheesy” are mostly about how OLD-FASHIONED characters created half a century now look.Some of them are updatable, and the best of them are genuinely timeless…but a lot of them are nostalgia acts, revived only because now- adult executives vaguely recall them… and are scared to death of anything new. As for comics themselves, they’re doing pretty good these days. Oh, not the monthlies Marvel and DC sell to the comics shops…they’re dying a slow and painful death. But try going into a major bookstore and ask for “Manga”…THAT’s what the kids are reading.(Personally, I think superheroes have become a COMMERCIAL dead-end for comics, because the big budget movies can give the action loving audience more “BANG!ZOOM!” action than ink on paper ever has(although that doesn’t always add up to more actual excitement, of course).Ironically, Hollywood seems to have finally caught on to the idea that comics really ARE about character and narrative first and foremost…AFTER they figured out the tricky special effects stuff!
Harold,
I address your fatally naive analysis of business issues and you call me a fanboy?
Then you use someone else’s words to support a weak case?
That’s pretty lame sir.
Also as my final word in this argument. You say only the top tier of DC’s character’s are film worthy yet many less mainstream comics have done quite well at the Box Office.
The Mask
The Crow
Road to Perdition
History of Violence
You, Harold, must work at Warner Brothers because you appear to have the same lack of vision that those exec’s have when assessing their inventory.
lol. The fans came out.
DC (not including Vertigo, of course) had been suffering from lame writing for a while, and that situation was not helped in the least by Warners acquiring it.
Now that it’s owned, there’s all this overhead pressure to DO something with their almost-always-mediocre books, especially the big-name ones.
But the fact is, Warners has plenty to work with in DC’s library as it is, and could develop for years with what they have. So turning a glaring eye on DC is simply passing the blame.
With so many other mediums of entertainment constantly siphoning away potential comic book readers, the pressure is definitely on for DC.
So. Isn’t it time Warners proved its worthwhiles as a juggernaut and inspired its comic book subsidiary, as well as the fans? Warners has more resources than DC, access to any talent they wish, and the ability to make just about anything happen with their properties.
If they only had the balls, they would announce a slate, get fangirls and boys shuddering, and jumpstart their comic book sales.
I mean, isn’t it pathetic (and interesting too, because it shows it CAN be done) that the Zack Snyders and Chris Nolans of the world are single-handedly working away at it?
But I’m not one to kid myself. Studio bosses prefer to take meetings and issue ridiculous statements of nothing designed to make their shareholders feel better. For the life of me I don’t know how this industry hasn’t crashed and burned yet.
What I want to know is why no one’s decided to do a Green Arrow TV spin-off yet for the CW… and whose genius idea it was to do “Green Arrow in Prison.” I mean, really?
The niche market problem started because of Jim Shooter’s idea that he could sell more comics through comic specialty shops. As we can see 75% of comic specialty shop owners are morons who couldn’t sell the shirt of their back and that is why the industry struggles with these growths and wanes. The only way the industry can stabilize is if both Marvel and DC put all of their work into getting comics in the most convenient places that casual readers would visit. That way it will lessen the dependence on comic book specialty shops and increase income and sales. They’ve already proven they have the right skill in marketing. They just need to fix the problem with getting comics in new readers hands.
Vertigo is DC’s most fertile and least-tapped vein of cinematic greatness. Yeah, some of the titles are off-beat, to be true, but there’s so much strong material there that it seems delusional that these stories aren’t being told. Chalk it up to executives who don’t get it, producers who assume they get it and mangle the adaptations in the process (think CONSTANTINE, which wouldn’t have been that bad if they’d, you know, kept the lead character British which is what the whole bloody book is about), and the fanbase which just keeps taking their lumps. I so wanted HBO to take on PREACHER, but they seem more interested in the same dull crap like “In Treatment” that helps explain their rapidly-dwindling market share.
I’m hoping that New Line is still producing Y: THE LAST MAN. They had a script for Vertigo’s WE3 that is unlikely to ever get made that is one of the most amazing scripts I’ve ever read.
I don’t know, but from what I see, development execs are falling all over each other to scrape up any comic material they can find and put it on screen.
I guess they don’t bear a mention because a lot of them are not part of the DC or Marvel superheroic universes (even if some are published under their imprint)s. SIN CITY, 300, 30 DAYS OF NIGHT, LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN, SPAWN, and WANTED are all comic properties. And many of those are relatively recent, too (to address the point of an earlier poster who urged companies to look towards material that isn’t 40-50 years old). THE SPIRIT and WATCHMEN are also chugging towards theaters. And Y: THE LAST MAN has been picked up as a feature with comic scribe Vaughan adapting.
Plus, there are a number of smaller publishers who’ve evolved a Hollywood-centric business model. They put out books to court the studios, basically subbing in 5-7 issue story arcs in the place of a typical feature spec. And much of that material is written with a feature mindset, rather than an ongoing comic series perspective. Part of the idea is to add value to the pitch with images to help the execs “get it.” Part of it is a little smoke and mirrors marketing, along the lines of “Hey, everyone wants ‘comics,’ so here you go. Now you can tell your bosses and cohorts that it’s all good. You’ve got next year’s IRON MAN — because you bought a ‘comic.’”
Also, don’t forget that AMERICAN SPLENDOR and GHOST WORLD were both comics, as well.
I realize this has skewed toward “comments on comments” as opposed to the article itself, but it’s a point that struck me. Despite what many posters say, the fact that SANDMAN and PREACHER haven’t been adapted yet doesn’t mean there’s no market for non-cape comics in Hollywood. We’ve got plenty of comics making it to the big screen and it’s just capes from the big two.
I’m with the crowd that thinks that DC’s library is deeper in unadapted titles and characters than Marvel’s. I would love to see Sandman, Preacher, Y The Last Man, and Ex Machina screen adaptations, but I don’t think any of them would be best seen as a 2.5 hour long movie.
I think the HBO/BBC miniseries would be the best route to go. HBO needs something to get their buzz back and a high profile comic-based miniseries might do that. Several of those titles have been included on lists of best books published in the past 20 years, so the literary pedigree is there.
Vertigo has gotten mainstream media coverage for the last issue of Y published in January. When was the last time a mainstream DC title got media coverage for a comic-only storyline?
Also, the Vertigo titles are some of the better selling graphic novels in DC’s library. Watchmen and Sandman have both gotten the coffee table Absolute treatments. The only other non-Vertigo DC titles that you see at a typical Borders/B&N might be some Batman ones including Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and the recent Killing Joke reissue.
sigh…
“and it’s *not* just capes from the big two.”
Whoops.
“V” for Vendetta…
The last time we got so many really silly comic book adaptations the heros were named Hopalong Cassidy, Zorro, The Cisco Kid, Roy Rogers (and Dale Evans)…
I much prefer Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
You do realize that if they put a vellum cover on the ones that came in the mail, the comic book stores wouldn’t have any customers, AND the Comic book producers would be able to have a true “subscription” base.
I find it interesting that a couple of posters have evoked LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN in a positive way, because everything about it seems to be a template for how NOT to do a comic book movie Read up on the behind the scenes lunacy on THAT film- the film started production without anyone involved having read the actual comic, using a script that seems to have been plagarized from another writer’s unproduced screenplay…which led to a lawsuit in which the COMIC’s creator got sued for the FILM PRODUCER’s actions! No wonder Connery quit the business in disgust soon after.( Not suprisingly, it’s also a really bad adaptation of a really good comic…)
BGY11 apparently knows nothing of the history of the comic book specialty market or the fact that the only real growth area presently in traditional bookstores is comics. He/She also seems very happy about showing this lack of awareness off.
“”DC CRISIS:
Fire PAUL LEVITZ and KAREN BERGER too!”"
It’s time for a massive ‘night of the long knives’ at DC!
Di Dio is a failed kids TV executive who has screwed DC right up, but he was appointed by the most cowardly executive in publishing, PAUL LEVITZ! This guy is so weak and gutless, he’s incapable of rising to the challenge of putting DC back at Number One!
KAREN BERGER heads the rapidly declining imprint VERTIGO, most of whose titles are lucky to sell over 10,000 copies. She’s a spaced out air-head… I’ve seen her at comic con panels, and she’s totally clueless!
Any hit comics are IN SPITE of her witless judgements…. She employs all these uptown hip “real writers” like the guy who wrote the crappy Testament, Douglas Rushkoff. They know nothing about comics, and it shows.
The bufoonish Grant Morrison is the unthinking man’s Alan Moore! None of his stuff sells at all, yet he is given carte blanche to fuck up all the main characters in the DC pantheon… If it wasn’t for the beauty of Frank Quitely’s art in All Star Superman, Morrison’s story would be unreadable.
DC: the Solution:
GET RID OF PAUL LEVITZ, DAN DIDIO, KAREN BERGER and shake it all up. These losers are a spent force, and totally new blood must be brought in, much as Joe Q was at Marvel.
“”Hey, WARNER execs reading this: Ya got it?”"
Ella – Warners has owned DC since 1969, so your comments about how “now that they [DC] are owned” DC is suddenly under more pressure to produce are ridiculous.
BGY11 – Both DC and Marvel were pulled into the direct market out of desperation. The industry came very close to perishing in the late 70s before the direct market emerged as a force. Comics disappeared from newsstands because, at the time, they were priced way too low to make it worth newsstand owner’s time to sell them. In the decade prior to Marvel’s move to enter the direct market in a significant way in 1979, virtually every comic book had lost half its circulation. If it wasn’t for the success of its Star Wars comics in 1977 and 1978, Marvel Comics almost certainly would have gone out of business. (DC Comics came close to collapsing as well, canceling more than half its line, 31 titles, on a single day in 1978)
I think you missed a big part of this story, but downloads are completely collapsing comic book shop sales.
Neither DC or Marvel has successfully addressed sameday digital comics and until they do, they’ll be on the same idiotic path as music companies.
I don’t buy into the theory that downloads are hurting the comic book industry. After all, downloads can’t appreciate in value as comic books do. And most of the downloads are of old issues that are not in print.
Most of the people who download new comics say it actually expands the number of titles they can read. For example, they may buy eight titles and read a bunch of other titles they can’t afford. Most people who download comics say they also buy comics.
A lot of people outside the US, where they can’t readily buy comic books, are downloading comics, so downloads are reaching people where there isn’t already a market for the book — but there is a market for the movies! Downloads might have helped Iron Man and the Hulk movies in the worldwide market.
I think the real problem is that most comics are nearly unreadable. The writers have stopped writing comics and are trying to write movies.
In the old days, a lot of comics were self-contained. They told a story in 20-22 pages. A special event comic might stretch between two issues.
These days, writers and artists are typically signed for 12 issues, and they make their stories stretch over that time period. Quite often, you’ll find issues where the Super Hero himself doesn’t even show up! Or it takes 4-6 issues just to set up the story the writer wants to tell. The companies are trying to get people to buy a complete year’s run that they can collect into a graphic novel instead of just trying to get you to buy an issue at a time.
The result is declining readership because the casual reader can’t just come in in the middle of a story line. You can’t figure out what is going on. This is the same problem TV shows with story arcs suffer from.
Buffy and Angel suffered declining viewership because if you missed a few episodes you couldn’t tell what was going on. Contrast this with CSI or Law and Order, where you can come in, enjoy an episode, and not need to know what is going on in its universe.
The comic book companies need to be shaken up. Sales are 1/10 what they were in the 1980s for both Marvel and DC, and readership fell long before the Internet came along. The movie revenue is the only thing really keeping them alive.
Mark Parsons – Yep, THOR, with his hammer, goofy helmet and bright red cape, indeed screams “cheese” to me *in the context of a movie.* The super-soldier angle hinted at in INCREDIBLE HULK will work well in a Captain America movie, but the bright red and blue costume….
It’s not the story that’s the problem, it’s the visuals that can prove tricky. What works great in a floppy *doesn’t* always translate to the big screen without looking really silly. BATMAN and IRON MAN worked it out, so it can be done. IRON MAN had a red-and-gold costume because Tony Stark painted it the colors of one of his cars. What on earth would Captain America’s motivation for red and blue spandex be?
That’s what Marvel’s challenge is — how to make this essentially goofy stuff into something that works in a movie, which isn’t “the real world” but should look something close to it (ie, IRON MAN, SPIDER-MAN, etc.).
LORD OF THE RINGS could indeed have easily been incredibly cheesy. But fantasy movies are also lucky in that they don’t have to worry about how it fits into a New York landscape, because they’re making their own world. Stuff like THOR and CAPTAIN AMERICA have to look like they fit in “the real world” (albeit a movie version of it).
And Harold, I never mentioned young comic book readers, and no one else did, either. Because, yeah, they don’t exist, and that’s not going to change. We were talking about the very successful cartoons in recent years that featured versions of the Teen Titans and the Justice League that introduced kids to more than just the characters middle-aged guys know from SUPER FRIENDS.
I agree with Dan Zee. I’m more a casual comic buyer and got back into Batman when Jeph Loeb was writing it a couple of years ago– until DC completely ruined the storyline by splitting it up between every other Batman-oriented comic book around. So, to finish the story — which suddenly and unexpectedly morphed into a giant cross-over piece — you had to buy not only the next issue of Batman, but Action Comics and at least six other titles to finish off what started (and ran) as a single comic for a ten-issue stretch. Marvel does this as well on occasion, but not quite as egregiously and consistently as DC.
” What would Captain America’s motivation for red and blue spandex be?”…Oh, I don’t know, maybe just that it’s the colours of the flag he’s representing, that’s all. (And for the record- Cap wears ARMOUR, always has- go back to those early Kirby drawings of chain mail, battle helmet, and shield.)Tights have never been the problem with “movie” superheroes, anyway-the audience that wants to see a larger than life superhero has always accepted it as part of the game.(The problem was the filmmakers who looked down on the genre themselves- no matter WHAT genre, the surest way to make a bad movie is to condescend to your audience).
Coming to this a day late, but wanted to through out a few things.
Warners has done an absolutely DREADFUL job in capitalizing on the wealthy of material at their disposal in DC’s archives. True, they have tried to move beyond just the capes and spandex. Sandman was in development for a long time, but the two scripts I read were pretty poor. Preacher was also in development for a while, I think Ben Affleck was being courted for the Jesse Custer role for a while before he decided he didn’t want to be involved in another religious controversial project so soon after he had Dogma for Kevin Smith. The script for that was pretty good, but it’s controversial nature probably made it a hard sale to the execs. Currently, Y: The Last Man is being developed and the draft I read isn’t bad.
On the superhero side, Warners has stumbled in trying to get a Wonder Woman and a Justice League film out. They were also, briefly, working on a Green Lantern filml to be done as a comedy with Jack Black. I like scripter Robert Smeigel, but the less said about this one, the better. (Dodged a bullet when this one died, kids.)
Right now, Warners has a Green Arrow, a Captain Marvel/Shazam and a Jonah Hex film in script development. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of these gets a greenlight in the next few weeks, as Warners schedule for next summer is looking pretty thin. Also, Joel Silver is working on a Sgt. Rock project, but he might not have the juice to get it going.
I would like to see Warners look deeper at what DC has. There’s lots of stuff that isn’t straight superheroics that would make great films. Some of it is even outside of the standard geek demographic. My 11-year step daughter loves the Plain Janes graphic novel from DC’s Minx imprint. A film adaptation of that would go over gangbusters with the tween set.
It’s not the big crossovers, it’s not the lack of movies, it’s not personalities… it’s the lack of great storytelling that is hurting DC. Geoff Johns shows ‘em how to do it every month. That said, it is great to see so many people here who love comics.
“IRON MAN had a red-and-gold costume because Tony Stark painted it the colors of one of his cars. What on earth would Captain America’s motivation for red and blue spandex be?”
Um, the American flag, perhaps? He’s a patriotic superhero created by the U.S. government. Of course he’s going to wear red and blue. They just need to hang a lantern on it in the advertising by having Steve Rogers bitch about how silly it looks for a soldier to dress like that, and it’s all good.
GAFan, they’ve tried to create both a Green Arrow and Justice League spin-off. But according to the webmaster of a well known Smallville fansite, they had trouble getting the rights to characters from DC and the CW wasn’t all too interested.
Say what you will about Smallville, but this is a scripted network show about to start it’s EIGHTH season. That’s no mean feat in these days of shows being yanked after only a few episodes.
The show has done an impressive job of keeping the concept of Clark Kent/Superman alive in the mind of the general public, despite being buried on the CW. Yes, it gets some harsh criticism from the die-hard comic fanboys, but the healthy DVD sales show that the general public are still watching and enjoying this version of the Superman tale.
Steve Rogers ashamed of his costume? Pshaw! Let’s not also spit on the memory of Jack Kirby.
“I’m not a comic book fanboy, but I think the statement above is illustrative of the problem with them.
Sandman? Never heard of it/him.”
Seriously? Entertainment Weekly just put it in their “New Classics” issue with The Lovely Bones and The Road. Sandman is one of the most well know comic book series ever created. I would say that Sandman was at least as well known as Iron Man or Hellboy (pre movie)…and probably more so than 300 or Sin City. It’s the kind of book that people who don’t read comics will read.
It’s amazing how often DC has tried to “fix” its mess of a universe by having a “Crisis”. It’s redundant, boring and hardly a “crisis” at all but a rehashing of old events and situations and why? Because all the writers are recycled!! Instead of rebooting your characters every few years – why not just BOOT your writers after a year on a title? Set certain guidelines that all writers have to abide by and then just let them go and for Hera’s Sake – STOP with the “Crisis” crap, already!!
I also have to agree that comics are too expensive. It’s sad when magazines with hundreds of pages are the same price as a comic which has more ADS than stories!! I’ve dropped from over 20 titles in my pulls to 2. If the writing doesn’t improve on these two titles, I’ll just read the comics in the store like I do the other 18 titles I dropped.
I used to collect all these superheros in the 1970s, but I won’t buy them now, because…
…I’m a lot older, I became a father, I became a lot more conservative, and I’ve grown to really hate gore, cynicism, and anything pornographic. ISTM that comics are overflowing with all three. I looked at a BATMAN mag last year at the public library, where the Scarecrow beheads some poor guy, along with a vivid “Sploosh” sound effect. It makes me want to wash my hands after handling the page.
…I’ve gotten to be more idealistic than the heroes I used to like to read! Character flaws are one thing; they make a hero interesting. Ruthless depravity is different. I still believe in the objective reality of good and evil, and postmodern cynicism is a turn-off to me. Marvel and DC (especially Marvel) don’t seem to have anyone who thinks about idealism that way anymore. And I don’t want to be politically propagandized, either.
…Several of the people writing the magazines seem to have their emotional dials tuned only to rage, fear, lust, horror, and dystopia. I guess they’re writing for what they imagine to be the modern teenager male — may God protect us. I want to be choosy about what I feed my brain, just like I have to be careful about what I put into my body.
I love good adventure storytelling, I love imagination, and as a guy I love stories about heroic characters struggling against great odds to vanquish evil. But I hate gross-out bloodshed, I hate pornography for what it does to my attitudes about women, I’m oppressed by cynicism, and honestly I see a lot of stuff in the comics today to be pretty unhealthy (to put it courteously).
Jack Brooks,
Amen Brother!!! You summed up everything that in my opinion is WRONG with comics. Kudos!!!