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This is a public first for the two actor unions (although SAG prez Alan Rosenberg tried and failed to goad his AFTRA counterpart Roberta Reardon into a debate before the AFTRA ratification vote on the AMPTP deal). But now they debate each other on KCRW-FM, with Claude Brodesser-Akner moderating. (Seriously, I'm not paid enough to listen to this. But you may still be interested...)
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Pass.
Readon actually comes across far more articulately than Rosenberg. And much less shrill.
In fact, Rosenberg comes across like an idiot.
And for someone so opposed to qualified voters in SAG as Rosenberg is, he sure is for it for AFTRA.
He is an idiot.
Roberta killed him….. Why would you vote for Alan? Stuttering actor who wants to be a leader? What qualifies him?
coup de tet!!!!
Alan is brilliant – Roberta? Not so good… Go Alan Rosenberg – keep fighting the good fight!
http://www.sag.org
Summary:
I am not arguing: you are.
No, you are arguing.
Well, you started it.
No, you did.
You did.
You did.
Hey you two! You should have lunch! There is great salmon at (blank).
The End.
Part of the art of negotiation is the ability to listen.
Obviously, not Alan Rosenberg’s strong suit.
Allen came off really bad. Maybe he should have sent Justine. Oh that’s right she was the one that called AFTRA the scumbag union. Would have been a lot of beeps
“interesting”:
No, Roberta Reardon doesn’t sound more articulate than Alan Rosenberg. She just sounds calm and smug, because she’s clearly happy, like a toddler, at the stinky shit she just took in the living room.
Alan does get agitated that Roberta keeps interrupting and talking under him like a goddamned Phil Hendrie character, and the host is clearly grilling him harder.
Fuck this 50-50 joint negotiation NONSENSE. Stupid. AFTRA is not an equal union in size or in backbone.
coup de tat – What qualifies Alan? How about long list of Acting credits – someone who’s been a successful Actor for years. He’s a good man, fighting the good fight and for what – being SAG president is a thankless job.
My question to you – What qualifies Roberta? She has no credits in her field. Where did she come from and how was she elected? People are so hard on Alan, when Roberta’s resumes is nil.
Alan is articulate and so much Smarter than Roberta. Why else would there be so many AMPTP folks on this site trying to destroy him…
Actorjames-
Sag would be 50% smarter if they let it be 50-50 joint negotiation.
Dumb and Dumber 3! An embarrassmnet to REAL organized labor and unions everywhere. Better luck next time without these two losers.
This is the man representing SAG against the AMPTP? OMG. No wonder you guys are so fucked. He’s a blithering idiot. If we elect the government we deserve, then God help us.
I have it on really good authority that certain members of SAG are making a run at the Board with the hopes to solidify their stance when they make a run at AFTRA. The plan? AFTRA gets to keep News and Radio (if they’re lucky) soaps, but that’ll be it. The SAG plan, or more accurately these people planning on getting on the Board, don’t want AFTRA negotiating any contract for actors. Ever.
And really, who can blame them?
Actorjames-
well have fun, cause your top notch union boss just brought you a nice plate of that “stinky shit” for you to eat for the next 3 years.
The manner in which AFTRA is much bigger, both in size and backbone is their ability to seize the moment and understand the leverage they have and what it will get them in today’s market.
That ’stinky shit’ actorjames refers to is a ratified contract — a contract made possible by the enormous sacrifices made by writers who struck for 100 days and the actors and below the line people who supported them. It’s appalling to see how someone who is supposedly a union member belittles such an effort.
Burt-
You must be on the SAG board because like them you missed the point. Im not asking what qualifies him as an actor, but rather, what qualifies him as a LEADER.
As far as his acting resume, that last credit will be his last credit, trust me.
The one thing Alan kept repeating over and over is the poor actor who can’t get a job. Could it be that all the Unions have made it too costly to make TV and Films in this country. So the evil moguls at the behest of their corporate boards move productions out of this country to locations more economically friendly. So if SAG gets all the concessions they want how will that encourage the studios to make more TV and Films here as opposed to Canada, Mexico, Bulgaria, England, Australia or anywhere but here.
These two sound like bitter exes going through a divorce..and the union members(especially us dual-carders) are the children in the middle. As far as qualified voting goes, under the plan put forth by Amy Brenneman, et al, that native american actor than alan mentioned would only need ONE DAY OF EXTRA WORK IN A YEAR TO KEEP HIS VOTE. Fuck, anyone can do that..Both these motherfuckers need to go.
Being articulate and concise in a radio interview is important. rosenberg was stuttering and, at times, all over the map. that is extremely unfortunate. maybe he’s so pissed off he can’t see straight, let alone speak, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. debates are funny things. did anyone think al gore would come off like a pompous asshole in his 2000 debates with bush? I was SURE gore would make him look like a fool. didn’t happen. did we elect the “right” person? 2004 – did anyone think john kerry, a genuine war hero and extremely bright harvard educated man with years in the senate, with all the tragic mistakes that had been made by bush in his first term, think kerry would come off as an elite, fuddy-duddy who was about as spontaneous as a north korean border guard? did the country elect the “right” person in 2004? this “debate” was a setback, in a series of setbacks, for sag. rosenberg needed to calmly and clearly lay out his case. he did not. that’s a shame. however, does he have the issues on his side? without a doubt. my advice to him, if he truly has the actors best interests at heart, is, next time? let doug allen do the talking. we needed david boise, we got yosemite sam. reardon gets away with murder in this interview, and the fucking clueless host asks the most inane questions “will you have lunch?” “can you agree on that?” “let’s move on to the commercials contract – can you make an agreement right now to bargain together?” what a fucking moron. claude? how about discussing what just happened and why? it’s not that complicated, his listeners wouldn’t have been swamped with arcane byzantine details, as he kept intimating. how about being prepared, ready with well formed, specific questions to one, then letting the other respond. control the interview claude – that’s your job. don’t get into YOUR suggestions (qualified voting – good!) who gives a shit what YOU think? the whole thing made me fucking pissed. rosenberg needs to get the fucking marbles out of his mouth, get his facts into bite size understandable answers, as well as challenging questions. he needs a murder board, and the shame is – it’s too fucking late!
To “Another Working Actor”: A ratified contract it may be, but it isn’t a very good one (and neither is the writers’).
Did I hear the same interview?
Alan was expressing the frustration of all of us actors that a phantom Union is taking increased jurisdiction over more of the field of entertainment by GIVING away the cow’s milk.
We’d all be a lot better off if there were one union for all the above-the-line creatives (the W,D, and A Guild?).
That union would have REAL leverage.
If I were a member of SAG, after listening to Alan Rosenberg defending my interests, I’d be looking for another line of work.
llen came off more like porky pig at the end of a loony tune
Why did Allen use an Indian as a example, I’ll tell you it’s baiting at it’s worst plain and simple. He use it to invoke that image of the Indian with a tear over littering. What an asshole. Do I care if sag gets a better deal yes I do. Do I think you will get one no. The WGA and SAG need to get professionals to work their deals, If you think that the AMPTP is laughing try all the labor unions in this country. God bless you and god damm you, labor has been set back 50 years because of this.
Roberta: “All of us… all work for the same six employers…the broadcasters are all owned by the same people… It make absolutely no sense at all to ghettoize…”
SO, by that logic, Roberta, IATSE, WGA, DGA, 399, SAG, etc…should all merge…into AFTRA.
How can you seriously argue this point?! To say that broadcasters not voting on actors’ contracts is the same as qualified voting is simply disingenuous, to say the least.
Let’s be honest. You rushed in separate from SAG and accepted a horrible deal in order to expand your jurisdiction.
Hang tough SAG.
It’s Nixon vs. Kennedy. He’s sweating and yelling and stuttering and she’s cool as a cucumber. I hate admitting it. This must be how Bush voters feel when they see him speak. “Oh, God. Just shut up and govern.”
It doesn’t instill much faith in the current negotiation process. Maybe SAG should be run by professional business people and not actors. Who’s running the NFL? Not it’s players. Rich, White men. Hey, they run the studios too! What’s going on here?
coup de tat – No I’m not on the board – another thankless job, one that applaud them for doing!
I understand your question – I don’t think you understand what your asking. “What qualifies him as a leader?” To lead the Screen Actors Guild – first off you need to be an Actor. All past SAG Presidents have been working Actors – you need to have people/Actors who have worked the contracts and have made a living doing it. That way they understand what there fighting for. Alan has been a very successful working Actor – just look at his resume IMDB – by far out shines anyone on this blog. And he’s a very popular president, he’s been voted into to office twice – the rank and file middle class Actors who make a living ACTING love him, because they know he understands.
But here’s my original question to you and maybe this time you can try and answer it. What qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? She never made a living as an Actress -so she doesn’t know what it like to work the different contracts of a union she representing. Which would explain why she so easily caves in during negotiations. And why she just wants to make peace and nice nice without fighting for her members.
If you put SAG contract and a AFTRA contract on the table – sitting side by side representing the same Acting job. The SAG contract is always superior – it’s always a better deal for the Actor, that’s just a fact. And what Alan is fighting for is far superior than Roberta. She caves in to make everyone happy and Alan is trying to clean up the mess. That’s what makes him a good leader – he’s not buckling from all the pressure for him to just make a shitty deal already. And a lot of people who are not Actors and who don’t work SAG contracts don’t like him for it. Especially the AMPTP.
Peace and Solidarity!
The Rosenberg-Reardon KCRW “Debate.”
Not exactly Lincoln-Douglas.
But it was a revealing (if depressing spectacle).
Even if the moderator is a blathering ninny. (“Plank Salmon?” WTF? How about asking the most obvious question that any, and I mean any Journalism 101 student would have asked or failed the course. Namely: “Alan Rosenberg, the AMPTP has given you an ultimatum. ‘Take our last, best offer or we’ll lock you out.’ Now that you’ve lost your attempt to undermine the AFTRA contract, what are you going to do?” ALSO: the ninny moderator kept hyperventilating that this was the first “face-to-face meeting” between Rosenberg and Reardon since the rift. Pure, stupid media hype. AND a ridiculous lie. They weren’t face to face. They were on the phone dude. That’s not “face-to-face.” Not even close.)
Moving on. Here’s what I learned in the clash of the Cotillion Mom v. The Bar Stool Crony:
1) SAG needs to fire its new PR firm Sitrick & Company ASAP. If Rosenberg’s awful performance is an example of their media prep of a client in crisis then they’re as incompetent as the current SAG negotiating team. Rosenberg needed some message points to stick to and clearly he didn’t have any (except to smear AFTRA as a union of news anchors and weathermen). Not useful. Also not true.
2) I can only imagine the mincemeat that the AMPTP and its top-drawer lawyers and negotiators will continue to make of Reardon moving forward. She came off as a light-weight. Pleasant, well spoken but seemingly clueless of just how much we vaunted “middle class” actors have to lose if SAG and AFTRA continue to do the dividing and conquering that’s supposed to be management’s job.
3) Both of them have to go (and the factions behind them).
4) We need one actor’s union, sooner rather than later. And with sober, intelligent, strategically-thinking leadership. Media has been conglomerating for years into bigger and more powerful units. We need to as well.
When I first got in my car after work and heard Rosenberg being such a blowhard I had to double check that I was listening to KCRW and not KRLA.
Listening to 5 minutes of this is worthwhile because it shows that the egos of these two non stars are really just searching for their moment in the limelight. That search for fame and headlines is what now has made and already slimmed down business down to the size of an Olsen twin.
Why all the personification nonsense about these two speakers. Their personalities don’t matter. What matters is what each of them represent. AFTRA undercut SAG by making a deal without them. That’s back stabbing, cut and dry. There’s no two ways about it. Rosenberg is left holding the bag. He makes a lot of sense if you listen to what he says instead of how he says it.
The real fight is not between these two, as the AMPTP loves to have everyone believe. It’s between the actors of both unions and the AMPTP. By making the agenda a personified fight between these two the AMPTP has them under their thumb. Like Rosenberg says, they’ve already been serious hurt by AFTRA’s actions.
The moderator must be an AMPTP shill as well as whatever idiot programmed this nonsense, not to mention Reardon, equally suspect. How about a debate between Rosenberg and the AMPTP? And Reardon to that and you’d see the AMPTP and Reardon on one side of the table and Rosenberg on the other.
This is subversive AMPTP bullshit. How can this kind of break between unions end? With a big win for the AMPTP.
Reardon: “Power is about power, is about growing the base” B-I-NGO!…finally she who doth protest too much tells truth! AFTRA bailed 11th hour before negotiations and used petty excuses as their scapegoat.
This is about power, and without poaching, AFTRA is a dying union. But now they will continue to poach and take over the industry. NEWS at 11! 2011 to be exact.
Yeah Claude, way to “step in and put the hose on the dog.” Columbia has a fabulous Journalism program, please go back to New York, enroll in it, bask in the brilliance of the instructors and then come back and give an interview.
Nikki,
THANK YOU for doing this and letting listeners make up their own minds. This wasn’t a performance, a play, a movie-of-the-week, thus warrants no review.
What DOES invite opinion is the blatant idiocy and immaturity of comments here about choosing one union over the other. Yep, it’s the Wild West, home of Libertarianism, a tradition of anti-unionism going back to the Merchants & Manufacturers’ Association that banned unions in L.A. for decades, and to hear this kind of clubby, cliquey anti-union crap from actors aimed at either of my unions – SAG or AFTRA – makes me want to borrow someone’s fraternity paddle and make some rumps real red.
Both SAG & AFTRA have been effective, powerful & large trade union organizations that have both served performers for nearly a century, and for actors to show such deep ignorance and total lack of understanding about these unions makes me wanna wretch in the nearest spittoon.
These are separate, distinct labor entities both with complex and strong histories of organizing and interweaving contracts, and to hear the dissonant whine for “proportionality” is not only tiring, it’s incorrect. One union will never allow another union to dictate terms disproportionately.
AFTRA has jurisdiction over 21 of the 24 hours of television in which all performers aspire to work (ask Rosie or Howie Mandell if they resent their AFTRA contracts.)
To hear the “brave” pro-SAG-only “soldiers” suggest fi-core or refusal to work AFTRA contracts belies a strictly amateur status. AFTRA has 50% of scripted cable. Are actors walking off AFTRA sets? No, they’re making a living, and all the whining is coming from “actors” who didn’t win those auditions.
Reminds me of two Beverly Hills wives arguing passionately and angrily about which restaurant serves a better duck paté. “My union is better than your union?!?” Before I am forced to hear any more of that amateurish shite, let me rather hear the soft rattle of pages in a book on trade unionism, labor history, and some genuinely informative dialogue.
@Comment by Just wondering — July 9, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
ding ding ding! We have a winner but don’t expect any actors to believe it.
@Comment by Burt — July 9, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
With all due respect, and I speak from experience, the average actor couldn’t differentiate a SAG contract from an AFTRA contract if it was sitting on a table in front of them. Thus why they all have production fax them to their manager/agent before they work so they know it’s “OK” to sign it.
Also saying the SAG contract will always be better than the AFTRA contract is a bit disingenuous. All the major network shows are SAG and HAVE to pay more money as such. If AFTRA had major network shows it would be a different tale.
I mean, you do a job that pays $6k for 3 days work (not including residuals) that literally 40k+ in this town alone believe they can (and can actually) do. Illegal immigrant day labor has less competition for jobs than actors for Christ’s sake. The fact you get paid as much as you do now already defies all business logic. You might want to take a peek at ‘just wonderings’ post to see what is and will happen if SAG keeps asking for disproportionate compensation.
I can not believe that SAG actors are currently working without a contract and this idiot, Alan Rosenberg, is debating Roberta Reardon.
Get a clue Alan, and for once DO YOUR JOB!
Contracts are what are put in place by producers now, while unions dream of the future.
Burt-
Nice try. Avoiding the original question, “What qualifies Alan to lead”, by diverting attention and asking what qualifies Roberta. You assume that since I can plainly see that Alan is in over his head that I am automatically a supporter of Roberta and thus you attack me with a question diverting attention away from the fact that you haven’t answered.
Ok Alan is an actor. Step one. There are 120,000 in SAG. What else? What qualifies him to lead? His performance in KCRW clearly shows he can not stay on topic, can’t get his point across, and comes across as a blithering idiot( some have appropriately dubbed him Yosemite Sam). I wouldn’t hire that guy to represent me in anyway. Would you let a guy that can’t form a sentence and speak clearly and concisely represent you? You need to remove him from a job that he is clearly not qualified for.
Also, if your bylaws state that the head of SAG needs to be an actor in order to understand actor issues, you need to change that also. There are so many in a range of different experiences that build and actors resume. So many in fact that one persons journey can not possibly speak for everyone. What is needed to lead is called empathy and most leaders have it. I don’t have to be poor, a minority, disenfranchised, or handicapped to understand the struggles of those people. What those people need is a leader who has leadership skills, empathy and a willingness to listen. Alan has none of these. All Alan has is a disorganized stream of consciousness full of vitriolic revenge where his ego has placed him in his own Quixotic quest at the detriment of his membership.
There is nothing that qualifies him. Certainly after his poor public performance he should be removed from office. To get a quorum all you need is 3 people at the meeting to propose a vote on a recall. Then if a majority at the meeting vote for recall it is then sent to the membership via ballot. You only need 51% in the meeting and 51% in the balloting to remove him. Not the 75% that you will never get for a strike authorization. At least then you send a message that even though you HAD to take this contract, you don’t like the results. Believe me you will never ever get a better deal from AMPTP than this one no matter if you strike or not. They will lock you out and shoot out of the country and make all of TV AFTRA. There is no public support and industry support after the WGA strike is gone. Remember your last commercial strike. Nothing shut down, only production in the US. Commercials still shot but went to Canada. The commercial market has still not recovered to pre strike levels after 8 years. When TV goes and features are done out of the country you will suffer the same consequences.
You can keep blaming other unions for your plight(which is what losers always do) or you can accept responsibility and figure out how to pull yourself out of the mess. By staying the course the only thing you guarantee is further disappointment.
@#274…bitter divide? they made their proposal, and it was tabled..there was a lot of back and forth on blogs like this, but, It wasn’t exactly kneecapping anyone.. you’re waaay overblowing the impact the qualified voting proposal had…but,like most people in this town, you’re just being “dramatic”…stop dissing Amy Brenneman..the proposal makes sense, regardless of the timing. Save your anger for the idiots who run our unions.
The producers are making laughing stocks of the actors and using the old fashioned method of “divide and conquer”.
The time for SAG, AFTRA and Equity to merge is long sense over. I’m so sick of some actors in SAG thinking they are too good to merge with “AFTRA”. SAG would outnumber AFTRA in a new merged union and the producers wouldn’t be able to “divide and conquer.”
Efforts to pry acting jobs away from AFTRA so that SAG becomes the sole actor’s union have been totally ineffectual.
The way to end this divide and conquer is merger.
It’s amazing what ego and pride among leaders and among the membership has done to harm everyone’s economic interests.
Unions like SIEU negotiate all different types of contracts for all different types of employees and jobs. A united Actors Union can stand up for actors of the stage and screen, radio and television presenters, stage managers, and voice-over artists without anyone being weakened.
Stand up to the egotists in both unions. MERGER NOW. Let’s never go through this farce again.
The question that should be asked is “why did AFTRA bail at the 11th hour”?
1. Rosenberg is a douche and we want to piss him off (NO)
2. We are a stronger Union with an individual voice (NO)
3. The writer’s strike lasted too long and caused some serious panic among the industry and now we’re scared shitless that it’ll happen again so if we settle, SAG might fold (DING DING DING-CORRECT)
If the WGA had worked out a deal with AMPTP and not gone on strike, SAG and AFTRA would be negotiating with tea cups in their hands. The fact is AFTRA was scared so they fled.
Alan Rosenberg, may come off as an arrogant stuttering fool, but he’s doing what’s best for his UNION….are people so myopic that they can’t do what’s right for fear that they may never recover from a ‘bad year’?
We need to have a little focus on the long run here. Yes it sucks that two Guilds may strike in one year, but what about the future? New Media, current work conditions etc. We need to take a deep breath and FOCUS.
Like the poet says: This Too Shall Pass!
Hollywood (from the P.A. to the Movie Star) will recover….
After hearing Alan Rosenberg speak I’m left with the impression
that SAG is peopled with a lot of “want to be actors” and the not
the real ones we see making a living in the profession. Why should
the real working actors be out numbered when making decisions on their contracts that secure them a livelihood and be at the mercy of those who are yet to know the real needs of a working actor, especially since they are in larger proportion of the union. It makes no sense at all.
Roberta’s main message is that she wants to ultimately merge both unions. Why should an actor’s union represent “other performers?” This entire ratification, that was passed by non-acting artists was a sham to prove a point.. to survive.
Somoene above said you can’t tell apart an AFTRA or a SAG contract.. I can break it down for you. SAG scale = $690, AFTRA scale = $300 (day rate). Citing references for individuals such as ROSIE or HOWIE is extreme.. they negotiate their own rates, their own contracts.. those power individuals do not (ultimately) get effected by the base numbers.
If you listen to ALAN’s passion, it tells you, to stand strong, united and to realize that, the coming times will be hard. We the artists should definitely stand strong together.
There will be a lot of crap flying around trying to discredit our president (Alan), I avoid AFTRA like the plague, always have (anyone that walks in off a street and can buy into a union speaks mounds).. in Canada you need SIX SPEAKING ROLES to become a FULL union member. Stand united, stand stong..
I would love it if AFTRA released the numbers to their vote ratification. How many of the 64% were actors, how many were not. How many of the 36% were actors how many were not.
IMPEACH ALAN ROSENBERG!!
Coup de tat – You can try and spin it all day long but you still can’t answer the question – What qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? Com on, you can think of something… Well obviously not you would have done it already instead of going off on one of your tirades.
And just to be clear – Alan was elect not hired. Elected twice. And if you listen closely and got outside of your own ego, you would hear what Alan is talking about – the issues! Something Roberta is too scared to do of fear of being not like. Alan doesn’t give a shit weather you like him or not, that’s a good leader fighting for what he believe in (his union SAG). The idea that he stutters is irrelevant and shows your ignorance and immaturity for even bring it up – because thats all you can hold on him is to make fun of him. You personally have your own dislike for this man that has nothing to do with him as SAG president – some history between you two, did he beat you out of an Acting job that you have not been able to get over? hmmm. Personally I like him even more because he stutters, because behind the stutter is brilliance and smarts. Now if Alan was stuttering and doing Bushism that would be a different story.
So I will ask you for the fourth time – what qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? A union I’ve been a member of for over 35 years…
Peace Brother!
http://www.sag.org
p.s. aren’t you also notgoingtotip?
Burt,
Do some reading, for god’s sake. Roberta Reardon happens to be one of the workingest narrators & commercial actresses in New York. But, yeah, that’s 3,000 miles away, and it’s all about Hollywood, isn’t it…you know the place where Mike Myers and Jim Carey used to make hits?
What qualifies her to lead AFTRA? Over a dozen years of union service for both SAG & AFTRA, a rare working career as an actor, a good heart & head, and the ability to speak well.
Other than that, hey, surf’s up dude…
To all the PERFORMERS posting and reading here:
We can all debate till we’re dead about Alan and Roberta, who has more credits, who is more well spoken, which union is better than the other, who screwed who, etc. And because we all have different backgrounds and personalities, we will likely disagree on different points regarding these things. Debating these things will get us nowhere except worked up into a sweat with no tangible benefits at all. Great for a hearty campfire debate, but worthless in effecting the one thing we need the most….CHANGE.
I propose, with a fair amount of certainty, that one thing we would all agree on, (including Roberta and Alan apparently), is that it seems utterly ridiculous and nonsensical to have one class of labor, namely “PERFORMERS”, covered by multiple guilds. I would hazard a guess that the majority of us would ALL agree that of course, different types of performances should be covered under different contracts, but that PERFORMERS as a whole should be under one guild umbrella. Not only does this make rational sense, it would increse the leverage that the “single guild of greater numbers” would have during the bargaining process. In addition, the fighting and bitterness that has arisen is a direct by-product of having two separate guilds covering the same class of labor – this type of situation is a natural breeding ground for bickering, battling for jurisdiction (even at the detriment of the constituency) and division. We need ONE guild, with ONE elected board, negotiating ONE contract for each type of performer, that way there cannot be two boards who waste more time spiting each other than they do representing their constituency.
Christopher Grove above said it beautifully.
SO….rather than debate amongst ourselves inane things such as the fact that Roberta has zero acting credits in TV / Film or that Alan is a blithering whatever, I PROPOSE THAT WE GET OUT OF THIS QUAGMIRE AND MOVE *** FORWARD ***.
*** LETS EXACT CHANGE ***
LETS ORGANIZE OUR EFFORTS
LETS START NOW
LETS START A MOVEMENT TO, (AMONG OTHER THINGS TO BE DETERMINED) REMOVE THESE TWO BOARDS, MERGE THESE TWO GUILDS INTO ONE, AND HOLD AN ELECTION PROCESS TO RE-ELECT A NEW BOARD WHICH WILL REPRESENT ALL PERFORMERS, AND HAVE “A” GUILD WE CAN BE PROUD OF.
IF WE START NOW – WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN BEFORE THE NEXT NEGOTIATION COMES UP IN 3 YEARS, AND REALLY BE IN A PLACE TO COMMENCE A RATIONAL BARGAINING PROCESS THAT WILL BE ENTIRELY FOCUSED ON NEGOTIATING CONTRACTS THAT PROTECT THE WAGES AND WORKING CONDITIONS OF PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING FOCUSED ON WHICH UNION DID WHAT TO THE OTHER, AND WHICH IS BETTER. THE BARGAINING PROCESS ***SHOULD*** BE ABOUT GETTING THE BEST CONTRACT FOR PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING ABOUT WHICH GUILD CAN CUT A DEAL FIRST IN A RACE TO GAIN JURISDICTION FROM THE OTHER GUILD.
DIVIDED, WE ARE INDEED FALLING.
I really believe the root of all of these problems is that we have TWO guilds representing really ONE class of laborers – performers. Remove this problem, and 2011’s bargaining will be between ***THE*** performers guild and producers, NOT between TWO separate performers guilds battling each other while producers effortlessly win in the end.
By the way, I agree that we don’t want to price ourselves out of a job, but if media conglom profits and CEO compensation packages are any indication, I don’t think they are hurting all that bad.
All efforts have to start somewhere. I just now purchased the domain name http://www.PerformersUnited.org, just so we will have a web interface going forward, and have set up the corresponding email address (info@PerformersUnited.org).
ANYONE interested in potentially helping in the beginning ground level efforts to organize a process by which we can get this effort off the ground and moving and taking shape, please email me at info@PerformersUnited.org, and we will go from there.
Lets stop arguing about what isn’t working, and instead bring about change to build something that ***WILL*** work.
Best,
Chris
Roberta Reardon, AFTRA New York president is an actress who has worked in daytime drama, commercials and TV voice-overs. Reardon had been national second vp in addition to heading the New York branch of the 70,000-member performers union.
Previous to becoming SAG president, Allan Rosenberg was a lawyer, or at least he played one on T.V. George W. Bush served a two term presidency. What did it get him? There’s sewage plant in San Francisco being named in his honor. Something for Allan to look forward too?
I’ve just listened to the broadcast online and I too thank you Nikki for putting it there so we could all hear it. Also thanks for all your excellent coverage of the negotiations. I have to take exception to all the idiots who’ve been harping on poor Alan’s “stuttering”. WTF? Can you imagine what’s going on in that poor guy’s head? First of all, he has to be exhausted from the negotiation process which has gone on forever. You try dealing with Nick Counter on an ongoing basis and see how coherent it would leave you!And now, the poor bastard has to go back and face those AMPTP devils-incarnate WITHOUT A FUCKIN’ LEG TO STAND ON,thanks to your heroine, Roberta Reardon! Imagine how you’d feel if someone had agreed, nay, given their word, to fight a battle with you and then, overnight fer god’s sake, announced they’d changed their mind and were going to negotiate their own separate contract–which they proceeded to do and undercut everything you’d agreed you were going to ask for together? Would you always be wellspoken if someone had done that to you? Alan has a head full of facts and figures germaine to every aspect of the agreement he has to negotiate. Nobody knows more about the things we actors need than Alan and Doug Allen. (God knows what’s in Reardon’s head). If Alan “stutters”, I think it’s just because he’s trying to concentrate all the stuff he knows into whatever will answer the question of the moment. He’s a smart guy and we’re lucky to have him. I just have to say in closing how sad this is making me. We had an opportunity to create a truly historic moment in these negotiations. We had much more power than many people thought, and could have made an agreement in which the actors stood strong and got at least some of the things we need. Now, thanks to Reardon and her 62% cowards leading the charge to the rear, we are faced with an historic moment of a different kind–the moment when the conglomerates crushed labor in Hollywood, if not for all time, at least for the foreseeable future, and rendered SAG, the proud creation of our Golden Age forebears a weakened and shambling anachronism. Good going guys! Jimmy Cagney, Ralph Morgan, Jimmy and Lucille Gleason and all the other great ghosts must be really proud of yer guts!
ps: You’ll NEVER convince me that Reardon is not an AMPTP shill!
Working SAG/AFTRA Actor – Workingest? Where did you go to school? Yeah surf is up dude and I suggest you better hurry to catch that wave.
All insiders know that Roberta does not make a living in her profession – what ever that is? Never has. Show me the info – show me the money!
And by the way – I’m in NYC. Dude!
How many actors unions does it take to negotiate a contract? One. Well one to do it, the other to say “I could have done it better…”
Still not as bad as when they pitted Paul Haggis against David Milch. The do this every once in a while on The Business. CBA is a horrible moderator, but he’s occasionally funny.
Well, it’s all coming out in the wash. As I write this, SAG is doing whatever they’re going to do with the AMPTP. The idea they’re going to go in and talk tough strikes me as unlikely, given the position they find themselves in, and I am totally pro-SAG. I have not criticized the leadership until now, but when I heard that interview yesterday, I thought “holy shit, we’re in trouble.” Rosenberg, who is taking shots for all of us, deserves respect, but he also needs to be able to do his job, and he failed miserably yesterday. I have zero doubt that what AFTRA did was forseeable, despite Alan’s protestations in the interview that “we had an agreement” to bargain jointly. It appears Alan and Doug had no plan B in case AFTRA jumped into the AMPTP’s lap, which they did at the first wave hello from the suits. They played right into the producers hands and made a power play. They got a quick, easy contract with loopholes you can drive a fucking truck through. Anyone posting on this blog and is pro-AFTRA in this better educate him or herself about what the thing actually says. It establishes an incredibly stupid precedent on web residuals, it leaves the door wide open to a non-union space on the web to try shit out, pilots, etc., without having to pay working actors, it allows a window of 12 to as many as 24 days of free streaming without residual payments. Do you understand what that means? It means, when theaters pull features off a server and project the digital image on the screen? They don’t have to pay jack-shit for 12 to 24 days, ie, the entire life of most movies in theaters. Theaters are going digital folks. There will be a transition period where who will pay for the machines – theaters or suits, or 50/50 both, will be hashed out, but it’s coming, and in some places, it’s already here. That’s big money potentially. The product placement protections are weak, and the suits are going to stuff more and more of that shit down our throats when we show up on movie or TV sets. Maybe Reardon is so used to shilling for Tide Detergent, she doesn’t realize actors, when they are not doing commercials? – don’t want to have to hold up the bottle of Pepsi and work, “this tastes good!” into the original scripted line they agreed to when they took the job. The increase in minimums is behind the consumer price rise of 4% per year. 10% over three years is a give-back, not progress. The cave on DVD is a joke. Actors live off residuals. Eating the “12 cents per DVD between 25 actors” shit for nearly 30 years and not having the balls to stand up and get it right is the work of an invertebrate, not a labor negotiator. DGA and WGA don’t have the same residuals need. Actors make half their living off them. The weakness of this contract in terms of the DVD fold and the swiss cheese internet terms spell big trouble for any AFTRA or SAG member willing to do the math. $23 a YEAR for clip use? And the suits are already making millions off their web initiatives. Iger was asked about the amount of Disney’s 300 plus million dollar profit that came from the web? He didn’t even pause “140 million.” That’s NOW, NOT IN FIVE OR TEN YEARS. Those numbers aren’t exact, but they’re close. All in all, it’s a bad contract that sets dangerous precedents for the web that the suits have NO intention of revisiting or renegotiating. Remember DVD? Apparently not. AFTRA clearly made a power play to fuck SAG, and what baffles me is, unless I’m missing something? SAG missed it and put themselves in deep shit. And that’s a failure of leadership folks. I can’t imagine, if they can’t swing a strike authorization, what they have left in their quiver. And if they have to settle for this deal (and I honestly don’t see how they avoid it now that they’ve screwed the pooch and let AFTRA fuck them), and the suits start to do more and more business with AFTRA? It’s the end of SAG as we know it. Somewhere Jimmy Cagney is spinning in his fucking grave.
Hey SAM – Roberta has done daytime? Where are her credits on IMDb? She has none. She is not even in the database as far as I can tell.
Actors earn HALF their income from residuals? For real, clovis? I must be doing something wrong. I’ve never earned from residuals more than 30% of my income in any given year of more than 20 years of being a professional actor.
I would think television writers depend on residuals even more than actors do — they always got a huge chunk of change in residuals. And yet they struck for 100 days and voted overwhelmingly for this very same deal that you claim ’screws the pooch.’
I think the deal is better than you realize. We have our foot in the new media door. That is very important. The AMPTP didn’t want to give even that much.
But otherwise, I totally agree with your assessment of SAG leadership’s botched handling of AFTRA.
Every story seems to make the contract sound like its a first draft agreement with bare bones terms.
I keep waiting for *any* news story/coverage which mentions that this ‘awful deal’ being presented is actually the ratified results of long negotiations with the WGA, following a 100 day writer’s strike.
I can’t believe the immaturity that comes from the SAG people and its leadership. Anytime anyone asks a question about anything, the answer invariably comes back with an insult against either AFTRA or Roberta Reardon.
Is there any wonder that SAG is in the mess it’s in? Is there anyone with his/her eye on the prize here? Anyone at all actually trying to negotiate a better contract for actors? Isn’t that what this was all about in the first place? How did this get turned into a pissing contest between two different unions? When did SAG stop negotiating and made this whole thing about how awful AFTRA and Roberta Reardon are?
GROW UP WILL YOU! You haven’t even successfully completed your own contract negotiations yet and you keep harping about AFTRA and Roberta.
It’s time for a house cleaning at SAG, and quickly. You can keep proffering empty slogans about how “Alan is standing up for his union” or whatever else, but it doesn’t change the fact that his strategy, or lack thereof, has probably left the actors with a worse contract than they otherwise would have gotten.
Maybe if SAG had offered to work together with AFTRA instead of being so patronizing, or maybe if SAG had put together a reasonable list of demands then maybe this mess could have been averted.
The simple fact of the matter is that Alan Rosenberg is in way over his head. He simply doesn’t understand labor economics and strategies. He’s the reason SAG lost so badly.
It’s time to STOP FIGHTING.
Everyone has to step back and look at the reality of the situation.
AFTRA IS NOT GOING AWAY
AFTRA WILL CONTINUE TO COMPETE WITH SAG FOR JOBS
SAG IS NOT JUST AN ACTORS UNION
SAG IS NOT SUPERIOR TO AFTRA
The Holier-Than-Thou vilification of AFTRA by SAG and many on this board that being a Broadcaster somehow makes you less than and Actor is KILLING US ALL.
SAG covers Background, Voice Over, Puppeteers, Stunt, Dancers and others who NEVER SAY A LINE IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA. Yet they are taken into the SAG fold. Why are they any different than a Broadcaster??!!
Merger has been shot down TWICE by people who have this “superiority” complex of SAG and now it’s time to pay for it. I say to everyone, get off you high horse and look at the BIG PICTURE.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL and only the AMPTP wins!
anotherworking actor:
30%? o.k., fine. that’s your top. other actors? 50%. many, many, many. after i did a series for four years and it went to cable in re-runs? at least 50% per year for 5 years came from residuals. so let’s agree – it’s a LOT. 30% is a lot, 50% is a lot.
and “foot in the door?” yeah, sure, if you think the suits are going to seriously ante up in 3 years, in which case I’ve got a bridge… we needed a PERCENTAGE. that covers us for good – 100 million? 3%. 100thousand? 3% We needed to tie ourselves to their profit via percentage, and with a united front and a clear strike threat, we could have gotten it. we blew it. make that aftra blew it.
yes writers get a big chunk of change, but it’s 1 or 2 writers. actors? 20-30-40 split the kitty. TOTALLY different. that’s why the DVD cave and the ridiculously low web rate have put us in real danger of having residuals as we know it go down the tubes for good. not now, not 5 years from now, but once it’s all web originated? we’re fucked under this deal.
To Another Working Actor – You must have been working only AFTRA shows to receive such a low % of residual income. Prime Time network SAG residuals are 100% of the original airing with caps at $3,200 for hour longs and $2,200 for 1/2 hrs. That’s each airing. Shows in syndication re-run at 40%, then 30% then 20%. That looks like HALF to me. This is what your Union fights to guarantee.
I have yet to hear how Alan’s main concern of jobs for actors are going to be addressed in the negotiations. If you get all the money from the congloms why would they produce more product to get less money at more cost.
Burt-
Please do yourself a favor and read the progression of the blogs from the top. I asked the question first and you countered by diverting attention away trying to ask a different question. You can’t dispute it.
I will answer what qualifies her. She can speak clearly, she understands the history of the labor movement, she understands the economic impact of a strike versus a 3 year deal with big increases, she doesn’t take criticism personally, she has over 12 years of sag and aftra experience, and the biggest of all….. she exposed Alan as incompetent blithering disorganized emotional child, without raising her voice or making a personal attack. She has proven that she is a sophisticated strategist and out maneuvered Alan with style and grace.
To everyone else:
“It is better to have someone think you’re a fool than for you to open your mouth and prove it”- Benjamin Franklin
The fact that Alan stutters is important because he is SPEAKING FOR YOU. The fact that Alan can’t organize his thoughts is important because he is SPEAKING FOR YOU. Sure i can sense that he is passionate about his cause and that he really really wants it. That not enough folks. You know what I really really want? To sink a 3 pointer at the bell during an NBA final. I really really want it!!!! Guess what? Not gonna happen. Further my wants and needs don’t qualify me to suit up with a NBA team. They want guys that can ACTUALLY do it.
If Alan gets outmatched by Roberta in a public radio interview, how the hell is he going to make any headway with tough lifelong professional negotiators of the AMPTP?????
Reality sucks. Get a mirror and start looking. There’s nobody to blame but yourselves. Start the coup now!!! impeach impeach impeach.
Dear:Comment by SAG STAND UNITED!
Obviously you should have attended the AFTRA informational
meeting about the contract or maybe even read the contract and
you would see how wrong your figures are.
You are just perpetuating misinformation. What else is new in this
high drama signifying nothing. It just shows how much SAG needs
AFTRA. WE SHOULD HAVE MERGED AND IT WOULD NOT HAVE COME
TO THIS. I HOPE THE HOLLYWOOD BOARD SEES THAT FINALLY AND
COMES TO THEIR SENSES IF THEY HAVE ANY LEFT. THEY GAMBLED
WITH OUR MONIES AND LOST. NOW BE ADULTS AND STOP BEING
CRY BABIES!!!!!!!!
It would seeem logical that any company or oganization that generates the enormous dollar amounts that the two unions generate, should be run by, and their contracts negotiated by, professionals.
An acting resume isn’t relevent to the quality of leadership of an organization or abilities at the negotiating table.
Instead of addressing business issues in an unemotional, businesslike manner, the whole process has devolved into an emotionally charged minefield, rife with illogic, petty sniping, egotism and face saving posturing.
I agree with Transpobill, It is indeed an embarrassment to organized labor and unions everywhere.
So Clovis, given you’re assertions, I’ll just go ahead and assume you’re a labor lawyer who’s been able to read and actually understands the AFTRA contract. At least you’ll have that to fall back on.
Coup de tat – Thank you for answering my question – finally. But your answers reminds me of Roberta – all air no substance. Just classic showboating -the substance of what someone is saying is much more important than how it’s deliver or how clearly someone speaks. How do you know Roberta’s views on the history of the labor movement? Unless your married to her she has never discussed it publicly. And Again how do you know if she takes criticism personally? Again all hot air no substance – it’s all superficial BS. She does understand the economics of the AMPTP and is willing to sell out her own union in the process.
The bottom line – we should be judging people by the content of their character. And Alan passes that test. And you may be right – Alan my never work again, but that’s because he’s putting SAG and Aftra members ahead of his own career – It’s called standing up for what you believe in.
In Solidarity – Peace!
Rosenberg is the WORST president ever. SAG would be stupid to re-elect him. He’s such an idiot.
Burt-
When are you going to answer the question? It was posed to you first. Even before your diversionary tactics to ask the same of Roberta.
Just take a poll of bloggers about Alan’s radio performance. It is overwhelming bad reviews for Alan. Even msm reviews are bad for Alan. And all your rhetoric isn’t going to change that. My statements about Roberta are from the KCRW show. Did you not listen? That’s what this blog is about. Let’s try to stay on topic Burt.
Judge people on the content of their character? Perfect. Character is defined by action and deed and what a person says. Alan gets a score of ZERO! He is in over his head and is not insightful enough to recognize it and his Ego stops him from coming up with a different strategy. He keeps doing the same thing the same way and hitting the same wall….. pretty stupid!!! What do you call a character like that? An Idiot!!! You want to judge him on his WANTS and DESIRES. That’s not character defining. Because I want to sink a 3 pointer at the bell in a NBA final, does that make me assume the character of a NBA superstar, NO…. It means it’s a fantasy, and if you let your fantasies define your real world, it means your schizophrenic. You know that old Hollywood adage, “It’s not what you’re going to do, it’s what you’ve done”.
So, Burt, your turn, answer the question, “What qualifies Alan to lead?”
Seems most don’t get it! AFTRA is the “99 Cent Store Union” and the AMPTP have used its “the Producers are our friends” mentality to screw SAG in negotiations.
AFTRA is NOT an actor’s Union and has ALWAYS been an anchor in those negotiations having an equal say with only about 5% of the contracts.
Think about it. The Producers have ALWAYS known that they have 50% of the room if they give AFTRA what they want (which is NEVER much). They only need ONE more vote from a SAG negotiator and the AMPTP got what they want from SAG and with current whimpy NY Board members not willing to stand up and fight because THAT requires a backbone, its been a tough time for SAG these last few contracts.
Everything done by current SAG leadership has been done by the books in a democratic way. These spiteful treasonous Board Members who have riled up the Membership and given the press and AMPTP ammunition and has done nothing more than made it that much harder for the SAG Negotiators. That has been their goal. They have made it personal and want Alan Rosenberg & Doug Allen to fail just so their Egos are feed at the cost of the SAG Membership. Now THAT’s leadership. (Incidently, these NY & Regional Board Members supported Allen Rosenberg in the last Presidential election so that shows how they can jump back & forth across the line for their own personal agenda).
Personally, I feel that each Board Member who has spoke badly to the press and in public about our leadership during the Negotiations shoud be brought up on charges of “Conduct Unbecoming” making it impossible to get a fair deal and also making OUR Union look like a joke.
I personally didn’t support Alan Rosenberg in the last election. As a matter of fact, I helped run Seymour Cassel’s campaign. Having said that, I SUPPORT Alan in our Negotiations 1000%. How could I not? He is the face of MY Union. Anything less would make me a bad Union member.
PS: As far as all these stars popping up and making comments. I have a question for you? Where were you during the Commercial Strike of 2000. What Committees have you served on at SAG? What have you EVER done for SAG prior to your sudden “coming out”? I’ll answer for you. NOTHING! You arwe nothing more than a mouthpiece for a political group within SAG that has fed you lies & half truths. And that goes DOUBLE for this NEW slate mouthing off in the press and talking about subjects they know nothing about FIRST HAND!!!
Robert Amico
Former Hollywood Board Member
Member 2005 Negotiating Team
The moderator is out of touch with minority issues. He sides with Reardon clearly in this interview. The moderator isn’t asking very good questions. Alan, keep fighting the good fight.