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This is a public first for the two actor unions (although SAG prez Alan Rosenberg tried and failed to goad his AFTRA counterpart Roberta Reardon into a debate before the AFTRA ratification vote on the AMPTP deal). But now they debate each other on KCRW-FM, with Claude Brodesser-Akner moderating. (Seriously, I’m not paid enough to listen to this. But you may still be interested…)
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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coup de tat – No I’m not on the board – another thankless job, one that applaud them for doing!
I understand your question – I don’t think you understand what your asking. “What qualifies him as a leader?” To lead the Screen Actors Guild – first off you need to be an Actor. All past SAG Presidents have been working Actors – you need to have people/Actors who have worked the contracts and have made a living doing it. That way they understand what there fighting for. Alan has been a very successful working Actor – just look at his resume IMDB – by far out shines anyone on this blog. And he’s a very popular president, he’s been voted into to office twice – the rank and file middle class Actors who make a living ACTING love him, because they know he understands.
But here’s my original question to you and maybe this time you can try and answer it. What qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? She never made a living as an Actress -so she doesn’t know what it like to work the different contracts of a union she representing. Which would explain why she so easily caves in during negotiations. And why she just wants to make peace and nice nice without fighting for her members.
If you put SAG contract and a AFTRA contract on the table – sitting side by side representing the same Acting job. The SAG contract is always superior – it’s always a better deal for the Actor, that’s just a fact. And what Alan is fighting for is far superior than Roberta. She caves in to make everyone happy and Alan is trying to clean up the mess. That’s what makes him a good leader – he’s not buckling from all the pressure for him to just make a shitty deal already. And a lot of people who are not Actors and who don’t work SAG contracts don’t like him for it. Especially the AMPTP.
Peace and Solidarity!
The Rosenberg-Reardon KCRW “Debate.”
Not exactly Lincoln-Douglas.
But it was a revealing (if depressing spectacle).
Even if the moderator is a blathering ninny. (“Plank Salmon?” WTF? How about asking the most obvious question that any, and I mean any Journalism 101 student would have asked or failed the course. Namely: “Alan Rosenberg, the AMPTP has given you an ultimatum. ‘Take our last, best offer or we’ll lock you out.’ Now that you’ve lost your attempt to undermine the AFTRA contract, what are you going to do?” ALSO: the ninny moderator kept hyperventilating that this was the first “face-to-face meeting” between Rosenberg and Reardon since the rift. Pure, stupid media hype. AND a ridiculous lie. They weren’t face to face. They were on the phone dude. That’s not “face-to-face.” Not even close.)
Moving on. Here’s what I learned in the clash of the Cotillion Mom v. The Bar Stool Crony:
1) SAG needs to fire its new PR firm Sitrick & Company ASAP. If Rosenberg’s awful performance is an example of their media prep of a client in crisis then they’re as incompetent as the current SAG negotiating team. Rosenberg needed some message points to stick to and clearly he didn’t have any (except to smear AFTRA as a union of news anchors and weathermen). Not useful. Also not true.
2) I can only imagine the mincemeat that the AMPTP and its top-drawer lawyers and negotiators will continue to make of Reardon moving forward. She came off as a light-weight. Pleasant, well spoken but seemingly clueless of just how much we vaunted “middle class” actors have to lose if SAG and AFTRA continue to do the dividing and conquering that’s supposed to be management’s job.
3) Both of them have to go (and the factions behind them).
4) We need one actor’s union, sooner rather than later. And with sober, intelligent, strategically-thinking leadership. Media has been conglomerating for years into bigger and more powerful units. We need to as well.
When I first got in my car after work and heard Rosenberg being such a blowhard I had to double check that I was listening to KCRW and not KRLA.
Listening to 5 minutes of this is worthwhile because it shows that the egos of these two non stars are really just searching for their moment in the limelight. That search for fame and headlines is what now has made and already slimmed down business down to the size of an Olsen twin.
Why all the personification nonsense about these two speakers. Their personalities don’t matter. What matters is what each of them represent. AFTRA undercut SAG by making a deal without them. That’s back stabbing, cut and dry. There’s no two ways about it. Rosenberg is left holding the bag. He makes a lot of sense if you listen to what he says instead of how he says it.
The real fight is not between these two, as the AMPTP loves to have everyone believe. It’s between the actors of both unions and the AMPTP. By making the agenda a personified fight between these two the AMPTP has them under their thumb. Like Rosenberg says, they’ve already been serious hurt by AFTRA’s actions.
The moderator must be an AMPTP shill as well as whatever idiot programmed this nonsense, not to mention Reardon, equally suspect. How about a debate between Rosenberg and the AMPTP? And Reardon to that and you’d see the AMPTP and Reardon on one side of the table and Rosenberg on the other.
This is subversive AMPTP bullshit. How can this kind of break between unions end? With a big win for the AMPTP.
Reardon: “Power is about power, is about growing the base” B-I-NGO!…finally she who doth protest too much tells truth! AFTRA bailed 11th hour before negotiations and used petty excuses as their scapegoat.
This is about power, and without poaching, AFTRA is a dying union. But now they will continue to poach and take over the industry. NEWS at 11! 2011 to be exact.
Yeah Claude, way to “step in and put the hose on the dog.” Columbia has a fabulous Journalism program, please go back to New York, enroll in it, bask in the brilliance of the instructors and then come back and give an interview.
Nikki,
THANK YOU for doing this and letting listeners make up their own minds. This wasn’t a performance, a play, a movie-of-the-week, thus warrants no review.
What DOES invite opinion is the blatant idiocy and immaturity of comments here about choosing one union over the other. Yep, it’s the Wild West, home of Libertarianism, a tradition of anti-unionism going back to the Merchants & Manufacturers’ Association that banned unions in L.A. for decades, and to hear this kind of clubby, cliquey anti-union crap from actors aimed at either of my unions – SAG or AFTRA – makes me want to borrow someone’s fraternity paddle and make some rumps real red.
Both SAG & AFTRA have been effective, powerful & large trade union organizations that have both served performers for nearly a century, and for actors to show such deep ignorance and total lack of understanding about these unions makes me wanna wretch in the nearest spittoon.
These are separate, distinct labor entities both with complex and strong histories of organizing and interweaving contracts, and to hear the dissonant whine for “proportionality” is not only tiring, it’s incorrect. One union will never allow another union to dictate terms disproportionately.
AFTRA has jurisdiction over 21 of the 24 hours of television in which all performers aspire to work (ask Rosie or Howie Mandell if they resent their AFTRA contracts.)
To hear the “brave” pro-SAG-only “soldiers” suggest fi-core or refusal to work AFTRA contracts belies a strictly amateur status. AFTRA has 50% of scripted cable. Are actors walking off AFTRA sets? No, they’re making a living, and all the whining is coming from “actors” who didn’t win those auditions.
Reminds me of two Beverly Hills wives arguing passionately and angrily about which restaurant serves a better duck paté. “My union is better than your union?!?” Before I am forced to hear any more of that amateurish shite, let me rather hear the soft rattle of pages in a book on trade unionism, labor history, and some genuinely informative dialogue.
@Comment by Just wondering — July 9, 2008 @ 8:52 pm
ding ding ding! We have a winner but don’t expect any actors to believe it.
@Comment by Burt — July 9, 2008 @ 11:14 pm
With all due respect, and I speak from experience, the average actor couldn’t differentiate a SAG contract from an AFTRA contract if it was sitting on a table in front of them. Thus why they all have production fax them to their manager/agent before they work so they know it’s “OK” to sign it.
Also saying the SAG contract will always be better than the AFTRA contract is a bit disingenuous. All the major network shows are SAG and HAVE to pay more money as such. If AFTRA had major network shows it would be a different tale.
I mean, you do a job that pays $6k for 3 days work (not including residuals) that literally 40k+ in this town alone believe they can (and can actually) do. Illegal immigrant day labor has less competition for jobs than actors for Christ’s sake. The fact you get paid as much as you do now already defies all business logic. You might want to take a peek at ‘just wonderings’ post to see what is and will happen if SAG keeps asking for disproportionate compensation.
I can not believe that SAG actors are currently working without a contract and this idiot, Alan Rosenberg, is debating Roberta Reardon.
Get a clue Alan, and for once DO YOUR JOB!
Contracts are what are put in place by producers now, while unions dream of the future.
Burt-
Nice try. Avoiding the original question, “What qualifies Alan to lead”, by diverting attention and asking what qualifies Roberta. You assume that since I can plainly see that Alan is in over his head that I am automatically a supporter of Roberta and thus you attack me with a question diverting attention away from the fact that you haven’t answered.
Ok Alan is an actor. Step one. There are 120,000 in SAG. What else? What qualifies him to lead? His performance in KCRW clearly shows he can not stay on topic, can’t get his point across, and comes across as a blithering idiot( some have appropriately dubbed him Yosemite Sam). I wouldn’t hire that guy to represent me in anyway. Would you let a guy that can’t form a sentence and speak clearly and concisely represent you? You need to remove him from a job that he is clearly not qualified for.
Also, if your bylaws state that the head of SAG needs to be an actor in order to understand actor issues, you need to change that also. There are so many in a range of different experiences that build and actors resume. So many in fact that one persons journey can not possibly speak for everyone. What is needed to lead is called empathy and most leaders have it. I don’t have to be poor, a minority, disenfranchised, or handicapped to understand the struggles of those people. What those people need is a leader who has leadership skills, empathy and a willingness to listen. Alan has none of these. All Alan has is a disorganized stream of consciousness full of vitriolic revenge where his ego has placed him in his own Quixotic quest at the detriment of his membership.
There is nothing that qualifies him. Certainly after his poor public performance he should be removed from office. To get a quorum all you need is 3 people at the meeting to propose a vote on a recall. Then if a majority at the meeting vote for recall it is then sent to the membership via ballot. You only need 51% in the meeting and 51% in the balloting to remove him. Not the 75% that you will never get for a strike authorization. At least then you send a message that even though you HAD to take this contract, you don’t like the results. Believe me you will never ever get a better deal from AMPTP than this one no matter if you strike or not. They will lock you out and shoot out of the country and make all of TV AFTRA. There is no public support and industry support after the WGA strike is gone. Remember your last commercial strike. Nothing shut down, only production in the US. Commercials still shot but went to Canada. The commercial market has still not recovered to pre strike levels after 8 years. When TV goes and features are done out of the country you will suffer the same consequences.
You can keep blaming other unions for your plight(which is what losers always do) or you can accept responsibility and figure out how to pull yourself out of the mess. By staying the course the only thing you guarantee is further disappointment.
@#274…bitter divide? they made their proposal, and it was tabled..there was a lot of back and forth on blogs like this, but, It wasn’t exactly kneecapping anyone.. you’re waaay overblowing the impact the qualified voting proposal had…but,like most people in this town, you’re just being “dramatic”…stop dissing Amy Brenneman..the proposal makes sense, regardless of the timing. Save your anger for the idiots who run our unions.
The producers are making laughing stocks of the actors and using the old fashioned method of “divide and conquer”.
The time for SAG, AFTRA and Equity to merge is long sense over. I’m so sick of some actors in SAG thinking they are too good to merge with “AFTRA”. SAG would outnumber AFTRA in a new merged union and the producers wouldn’t be able to “divide and conquer.”
Efforts to pry acting jobs away from AFTRA so that SAG becomes the sole actor’s union have been totally ineffectual.
The way to end this divide and conquer is merger.
It’s amazing what ego and pride among leaders and among the membership has done to harm everyone’s economic interests.
Unions like SIEU negotiate all different types of contracts for all different types of employees and jobs. A united Actors Union can stand up for actors of the stage and screen, radio and television presenters, stage managers, and voice-over artists without anyone being weakened.
Stand up to the egotists in both unions. MERGER NOW. Let’s never go through this farce again.
The question that should be asked is “why did AFTRA bail at the 11th hour”?
1. Rosenberg is a douche and we want to piss him off (NO)
2. We are a stronger Union with an individual voice (NO)
3. The writer’s strike lasted too long and caused some serious panic among the industry and now we’re scared shitless that it’ll happen again so if we settle, SAG might fold (DING DING DING-CORRECT)
If the WGA had worked out a deal with AMPTP and not gone on strike, SAG and AFTRA would be negotiating with tea cups in their hands. The fact is AFTRA was scared so they fled.
Alan Rosenberg, may come off as an arrogant stuttering fool, but he’s doing what’s best for his UNION….are people so myopic that they can’t do what’s right for fear that they may never recover from a ‘bad year’?
We need to have a little focus on the long run here. Yes it sucks that two Guilds may strike in one year, but what about the future? New Media, current work conditions etc. We need to take a deep breath and FOCUS.
Like the poet says: This Too Shall Pass!
Hollywood (from the P.A. to the Movie Star) will recover….
After hearing Alan Rosenberg speak I’m left with the impression
that SAG is peopled with a lot of “want to be actors” and the not
the real ones we see making a living in the profession. Why should
the real working actors be out numbered when making decisions on their contracts that secure them a livelihood and be at the mercy of those who are yet to know the real needs of a working actor, especially since they are in larger proportion of the union. It makes no sense at all.
Roberta’s main message is that she wants to ultimately merge both unions. Why should an actor’s union represent “other performers?” This entire ratification, that was passed by non-acting artists was a sham to prove a point.. to survive.
Somoene above said you can’t tell apart an AFTRA or a SAG contract.. I can break it down for you. SAG scale = $690, AFTRA scale = $300 (day rate). Citing references for individuals such as ROSIE or HOWIE is extreme.. they negotiate their own rates, their own contracts.. those power individuals do not (ultimately) get effected by the base numbers.
If you listen to ALAN’s passion, it tells you, to stand strong, united and to realize that, the coming times will be hard. We the artists should definitely stand strong together.
There will be a lot of crap flying around trying to discredit our president (Alan), I avoid AFTRA like the plague, always have (anyone that walks in off a street and can buy into a union speaks mounds).. in Canada you need SIX SPEAKING ROLES to become a FULL union member. Stand united, stand stong..
I would love it if AFTRA released the numbers to their vote ratification. How many of the 64% were actors, how many were not. How many of the 36% were actors how many were not.
IMPEACH ALAN ROSENBERG!!
Coup de tat – You can try and spin it all day long but you still can’t answer the question – What qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? Com on, you can think of something… Well obviously not you would have done it already instead of going off on one of your tirades.
And just to be clear – Alan was elect not hired. Elected twice. And if you listen closely and got outside of your own ego, you would hear what Alan is talking about – the issues! Something Roberta is too scared to do of fear of being not like. Alan doesn’t give a shit weather you like him or not, that’s a good leader fighting for what he believe in (his union SAG). The idea that he stutters is irrelevant and shows your ignorance and immaturity for even bring it up – because thats all you can hold on him is to make fun of him. You personally have your own dislike for this man that has nothing to do with him as SAG president – some history between you two, did he beat you out of an Acting job that you have not been able to get over? hmmm. Personally I like him even more because he stutters, because behind the stutter is brilliance and smarts. Now if Alan was stuttering and doing Bushism that would be a different story.
So I will ask you for the fourth time – what qualifies Roberta to lead Aftra? A union I’ve been a member of for over 35 years…
Peace Brother!
http://www.sag.org
p.s. aren’t you also notgoingtotip?
Burt,
Do some reading, for god’s sake. Roberta Reardon happens to be one of the workingest narrators & commercial actresses in New York. But, yeah, that’s 3,000 miles away, and it’s all about Hollywood, isn’t it…you know the place where Mike Myers and Jim Carey used to make hits?
What qualifies her to lead AFTRA? Over a dozen years of union service for both SAG & AFTRA, a rare working career as an actor, a good heart & head, and the ability to speak well.
Other than that, hey, surf’s up dude…
To all the PERFORMERS posting and reading here:
We can all debate till we’re dead about Alan and Roberta, who has more credits, who is more well spoken, which union is better than the other, who screwed who, etc. And because we all have different backgrounds and personalities, we will likely disagree on different points regarding these things. Debating these things will get us nowhere except worked up into a sweat with no tangible benefits at all. Great for a hearty campfire debate, but worthless in effecting the one thing we need the most….CHANGE.
I propose, with a fair amount of certainty, that one thing we would all agree on, (including Roberta and Alan apparently), is that it seems utterly ridiculous and nonsensical to have one class of labor, namely “PERFORMERS”, covered by multiple guilds. I would hazard a guess that the majority of us would ALL agree that of course, different types of performances should be covered under different contracts, but that PERFORMERS as a whole should be under one guild umbrella. Not only does this make rational sense, it would increse the leverage that the “single guild of greater numbers” would have during the bargaining process. In addition, the fighting and bitterness that has arisen is a direct by-product of having two separate guilds covering the same class of labor – this type of situation is a natural breeding ground for bickering, battling for jurisdiction (even at the detriment of the constituency) and division. We need ONE guild, with ONE elected board, negotiating ONE contract for each type of performer, that way there cannot be two boards who waste more time spiting each other than they do representing their constituency.
Christopher Grove above said it beautifully.
SO….rather than debate amongst ourselves inane things such as the fact that Roberta has zero acting credits in TV / Film or that Alan is a blithering whatever, I PROPOSE THAT WE GET OUT OF THIS QUAGMIRE AND MOVE *** FORWARD ***.
*** LETS EXACT CHANGE ***
LETS ORGANIZE OUR EFFORTS
LETS START NOW
LETS START A MOVEMENT TO, (AMONG OTHER THINGS TO BE DETERMINED) REMOVE THESE TWO BOARDS, MERGE THESE TWO GUILDS INTO ONE, AND HOLD AN ELECTION PROCESS TO RE-ELECT A NEW BOARD WHICH WILL REPRESENT ALL PERFORMERS, AND HAVE “A” GUILD WE CAN BE PROUD OF.
IF WE START NOW – WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN BEFORE THE NEXT NEGOTIATION COMES UP IN 3 YEARS, AND REALLY BE IN A PLACE TO COMMENCE A RATIONAL BARGAINING PROCESS THAT WILL BE ENTIRELY FOCUSED ON NEGOTIATING CONTRACTS THAT PROTECT THE WAGES AND WORKING CONDITIONS OF PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING FOCUSED ON WHICH UNION DID WHAT TO THE OTHER, AND WHICH IS BETTER. THE BARGAINING PROCESS ***SHOULD*** BE ABOUT GETTING THE BEST CONTRACT FOR PERFORMERS, RATHER THAN BEING ABOUT WHICH GUILD CAN CUT A DEAL FIRST IN A RACE TO GAIN JURISDICTION FROM THE OTHER GUILD.
DIVIDED, WE ARE INDEED FALLING.
I really believe the root of all of these problems is that we have TWO guilds representing really ONE class of laborers – performers. Remove this problem, and 2011′s bargaining will be between ***THE*** performers guild and producers, NOT between TWO separate performers guilds battling each other while producers effortlessly win in the end.
By the way, I agree that we don’t want to price ourselves out of a job, but if media conglom profits and CEO compensation packages are any indication, I don’t think they are hurting all that bad.
All efforts have to start somewhere. I just now purchased the domain name http://www.PerformersUnited.org, just so we will have a web interface going forward, and have set up the corresponding email address (info@PerformersUnited.org).
ANYONE interested in potentially helping in the beginning ground level efforts to organize a process by which we can get this effort off the ground and moving and taking shape, please email me at info@PerformersUnited.org, and we will go from there.
Lets stop arguing about what isn’t working, and instead bring about change to build something that ***WILL*** work.
Best,
Chris
Roberta Reardon, AFTRA New York president is an actress who has worked in daytime drama, commercials and TV voice-overs. Reardon had been national second vp in addition to heading the New York branch of the 70,000-member performers union.
Previous to becoming SAG president, Allan Rosenberg was a lawyer, or at least he played one on T.V. George W. Bush served a two term presidency. What did it get him? There’s sewage plant in San Francisco being named in his honor. Something for Allan to look forward too?
I’ve just listened to the broadcast online and I too thank you Nikki for putting it there so we could all hear it. Also thanks for all your excellent coverage of the negotiations. I have to take exception to all the idiots who’ve been harping on poor Alan’s “stuttering”. WTF? Can you imagine what’s going on in that poor guy’s head? First of all, he has to be exhausted from the negotiation process which has gone on forever. You try dealing with Nick Counter on an ongoing basis and see how coherent it would leave you!And now, the poor bastard has to go back and face those AMPTP devils-incarnate WITHOUT A FUCKIN’ LEG TO STAND ON,thanks to your heroine, Roberta Reardon! Imagine how you’d feel if someone had agreed, nay, given their word, to fight a battle with you and then, overnight fer god’s sake, announced they’d changed their mind and were going to negotiate their own separate contract–which they proceeded to do and undercut everything you’d agreed you were going to ask for together? Would you always be wellspoken if someone had done that to you? Alan has a head full of facts and figures germaine to every aspect of the agreement he has to negotiate. Nobody knows more about the things we actors need than Alan and Doug Allen. (God knows what’s in Reardon’s head). If Alan “stutters”, I think it’s just because he’s trying to concentrate all the stuff he knows into whatever will answer the question of the moment. He’s a smart guy and we’re lucky to have him. I just have to say in closing how sad this is making me. We had an opportunity to create a truly historic moment in these negotiations. We had much more power than many people thought, and could have made an agreement in which the actors stood strong and got at least some of the things we need. Now, thanks to Reardon and her 62% cowards leading the charge to the rear, we are faced with an historic moment of a different kind–the moment when the conglomerates crushed labor in Hollywood, if not for all time, at least for the foreseeable future, and rendered SAG, the proud creation of our Golden Age forebears a weakened and shambling anachronism. Good going guys! Jimmy Cagney, Ralph Morgan, Jimmy and Lucille Gleason and all the other great ghosts must be really proud of yer guts!
ps: You’ll NEVER convince me that Reardon is not an AMPTP shill!
Working SAG/AFTRA Actor – Workingest? Where did you go to school? Yeah surf is up dude and I suggest you better hurry to catch that wave.
All insiders know that Roberta does not make a living in her profession – what ever that is? Never has. Show me the info – show me the money!
And by the way – I’m in NYC. Dude!
How many actors unions does it take to negotiate a contract? One. Well one to do it, the other to say “I could have done it better…”
Still not as bad as when they pitted Paul Haggis against David Milch. The do this every once in a while on The Business. CBA is a horrible moderator, but he’s occasionally funny.