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who gives a s**t about you WGA scum. IATSE has animation. Get over it!!!!!
we do not try to poach your jurisdiction, so why are you walking into an IATSE show and trying to say you have jurisdiction.
remember your president, he took this of the negotiating table. You lose!!
Man, I can’t believe how Sony continues to screw with these writers! They already admitted PUBLICLY that they told the writers it would be a WGA show, and then they pulled the rug from under them.
If this show does go forward with SCAB WRITERS, those people should be BLACKBALLED BY WGA MEMBERS forever. They will be taking jobs away from union members who should courage an integrity.
Also, I hope the California Dept. of Labor gets involved. These Sony Assholes are breaking a lot of laws.
All this would’ve been freakin settled no questions asked if Patric/David hadn’t dumped animation before “negotiations” even started…Yo, Pat-Dave see the shit that could’ve been avoided if you stuck to your guns and kept your word?
Dear GREG:
Sony originally pitched the show as a WGA deal. Midway when the show is picked up they changed shop. The writers were lied to and the only recourse is to strike back. How would you feel about that? Though you guys are so reamed by T. Short already that you probably can labor the pain.
Just curious, PlayFair, which laws are being broken?
How ironic. These writers/showrunners are struggling for equality. Meanwhile, there’s not a woman in the bunch.
Mix it up, boys. Women, where are you?
Hi GREG.
I know you’re just having some fun with your internet friends, but please watch your language, honey.
And please be aware that IATSE covers the writers of many non-primetime animated shows, but the WGA covers all primetime animated shows. So it’s not as straight forward as you’re saying.
Also, if you were keeping up with this story you would know that Sony hired ALL WGA writers, told them all the show would be WGA (they were “working it out”) and then at the last minute told them it would be IATSE… little bit tricky.
Don’t stay up too late playing on the web, sweetie — you need your rest if you’re going to be your best!
Golden Rule–
You wrote, “…there’s not a woman in the bunch…”
Garland Marie Testa is a woman and Glenn Berger is a vegan, so he’s almost a woman. It’s a start.
Playfair? wrote:
“Just curious, PlayFair, which laws are being broken?”
Okay pal, you asked for it, you got it:
Under California labor law, it is crystal clear that employers cannot withhold wages for work already performed, as Sony did.
California labor code, section 204b states:
Labor performed by a weekly-paid employee during any calendar week
and prior to or on the regular payday shall be paid for not later
than the regular payday of the employer for such weekly-paid employee
falling during the following calendar week.
Labor performed by a weekly-paid employee during any calendar week
and subsequent to the regular payday shall be paid for not later
than seven days after the regular payday of the employer for such
weekly-paid employee falling during the following calendar week.
Employees must be paid within seven days of the end of each work-week. The law is clear. Furthermore, the law specifically states that wages may not be withheld pending the signing of a contract:
California labor code section 206.5: No employer shall require the execution of any release of
any claim or right on account of wages due, or to become due, or made
as an advance on wages to be earned, unless payment of such wages
has been made. Any release required or executed in violation of the
provisions of this section shall be null and void as between the
employer and the employee and the violation of the provisions of this
section shall be a misdemeanor.
In other words, the studios cannot say: You won’t get paid until you sign your contract.
Want more laws that were broken by Sony? Okay, here:
206. (a) In case of a dispute over wages, the employer shall pay,
without condition and within the time set by this article, all wages,
or parts thereof, conceded by him to be due, leaving to the employee
all remedies he might otherwise be entitled to as to any balance
claimed.
Certainly Sony has never disputed that the “Sit Down, Shut Up!” workers performed their duties for a couple of months, and thus were entitled, certainly, to at least minimum wage, currently $8.00 an hour in California. But Sony paid them nothing during those two months. Nada. Zilch. Zip. This is illegal and actionable. In fact, the law even calls for substantial penalties when employers willfully refuse to pay wages they know to be owed.
There you have it. Lots of laws. Important laws. Broken.
Have a good night.
Where the hell are Jim Brooks, Matt Groening and PATRIC VERRONE’S names?!
SAG and WGA seems to back each other up when it comes labor issues. I would like to know how the actors cast for this show feel. A letter with their names on it would mean a lot, especially in light of SAGs troubles right now. Where are the actors?
And more important than that even, where are the directors? Why haven’t they spoken up? I can’t think of any talent more important to these WGA animation shows than the directors, arguably as important as the writers. Where is their support? How do they feel about this?
If the WGA covers writers of other prime-time animated shows as Greg’s mom says, why is there a problem with this one?
Hey thanks LegalEagle!
Can you tell me, us, what action has been taken by the writers whom haven’t been paid?
Are Sony’s writers typically ‘weekly’ employees, or contract- per script?
You are obviously more up on legal issues, what with your name and all, but isn’t there a difference between weekly employees, and contract employees, toss in script fees instead of salaries, and the whole thing is a mess!
At least it was when I went to the WGA’s wage and hours seminar they did back when they were trying to organize reality shows.
It’s nice to see the Simpsons and the Family Guy writers coming together on the letter. Now if only their fans could stop sniping one another…
Same old story. Why is it that, time and time again, creative people get suckered into thinking that the same big media rules that they are sick of in their current creative medium suddenly, magically, MIRACULOUSLY! don’t apply in other creative mediums. In fact, the animation market is historically thousands of times WORSE than live action when it comes to getting something different and new on the air.
Hurwitz wants to make cartoons but is talking to all the wrong people. The Sit Down Shut Up project was likely cobbled together by agents and managers looking for big Family Guy paydays and lining up all their ducks in a neat and safe little row just like every other Fox franchise. Sony corporate throws in a wrench that doesn’t follow the game plan and all hell breaks loose. Its pathetic watching these hangers-on stumbling over each other to reach for the Matt Groening Fox Cartoon Franchise Promised Land. The project deal-making stinks of safe. Sony Adelaide is not the place to do anything different. Fox is heading that way, too, as far as animation is concerned.
This mess is a blessing in disguise. Diving head first into the primetime animation market is asking for trouble. Believe it or not, there is an alternative animation and cartoon market! No shit! God forbid any of these studio execs ever turn to those people to create animation for them. No, that would make way too much sense! At the very least, Jim Brooks actually turned to a cartoonist to get the ball rolling. Imagine that! How revolutionary!
Very talented writers spun Simpsons into a sit-com. But the genius was Brooks, Simon and Matts relationship and their shared vision. It was daring and new. And on top of that, the first Simpsons directors were blow-your-mind talents, many of whom have gone on to do incredible things since. And these were experienced cartoon animation people from interesting animation backgrounds who were itching to finally stretch their chops on television. I remember the Tracy Ullman shorts first and foremost when I think of the Simpsons. Funny, original, and revolutionary television. All the kernels were there, directly from Matts head, through the directors warped brains, and out of Murdochs shiny brand new FOX TV butt.)
Unfortunately, this fiasco is making IATSE artists and writers, many of them stellar talent, look like bad guys and that is so unfair, and typical WGA posturing. It is a really good thing that this show is not going forward. These jobs are not worth fighting for, WGA or IATSE. Sony just needs to pull the plug and thank their lucky stars that they are not going to be the next plug-and-chug primetime animation Frankenstein and join the body count of Mission Hill, Oblongs, Fish Police, God Devil Bob, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on….
Dear Patric,
Why did you promise to get animation covered and take it off the table almost immediately into the process? Why did you ask the 839 animation writers to help with the strike (picketing, loading trucks, handing out leaflets on the weekends) and then not even invite them to the post-strike party? Why did you promise, immediately following the strike’s conclusion, that in 2 weeks you were going to start the process to get animation covered by the WGA, and then do absolutely nothing?
The one thing you have going for you is that your members seem to believe your rhetoric rather than the facts (everything in the preceding paragraph is a fact). Had you kept any of your promises regarding animation, this would never have been an issue.
… but don’t blame Patric (even a little) – after all, he’s done so well for the industry so far!
I would like to clarify WG’s comment. I am no longer a vegan. I am still, however, very much a woman.
PatricHasNothingHere and others –
During the strike, the WGA leadership was forced to take animation and reality/game show jurisdiction off the table because the AMPTP successfully made them wedge issues with the membership. Blame the AMPTP (or if you want, the WGA membership), not Patric Verrone.
And if you want the jurisdiction situation to change, GET INVOLVED. The Guild has several efforts in the offing, I’m sure they’d love to have your help.
Hey PlayFair? –
Sony is ALSO in violation of California Penal Code 203.
These are the facts. I would gladly like to hear your thought out rebuttal, and what FACTS are on your side. Not just just open ended questions and innuendo.
203. If an employer willfully fails to pay, without abatement or
reduction, in accordance with Sections 201, 201.5, 202, and 205.5,
any wages of an employee who is discharged or who quits, the wages of
the employee shall continue as a penalty from the due date thereof
at the same rate until paid or until an action therefor is commenced;
but the wages shall not continue for more than 30 days. An employee
who secretes or absents himself or herself to avoid payment to him
or her, or who refuses to receive the payment when fully tendered to
him or her, including any penalty then accrued under this section, is
not entitled to any benefit under this section for the time during
which he or she so avoids payment.
Suit may be filed for these penalties at any time before the
expiration of the statute of limitations on an action for the wages
from which the penalties arise.
SONY’S COMEDIES:
“Til Death” – AFTRA scab show
“Rules For Engagement” – AFTRA scab show
“Sit Down Shut Up” – IATSE scab show
This company has clear pattern of anti-labor practices. All talented individuals with any choice should avoid it.
One thing that must be said on behalf of all WGA writers is that the writers on “Sit Down, Shut Up!” are heroes for doing this.
Because of them, now all the studios know that if they try to do a primetime show that’s not WGA, production will be shut down and the show will go away.
From now on it will be clear from the get-go that all primetime shows are WGA, as they should be. So thanks, guys.
UnionMade –
Wow – you’re calling the entire IATSE labor force scab. You must not want to work in this town. Next time try putting your name to what you post. See how well that works out for ya.
talented individual,
Yeah, UnionMade’s characterization is too harsh. But I understand the point to be that Sony has a pattern of using those unions specifically to block the jurisdictions of SAG and WGA. While AFTRA and IATSE are fine unions in their own right, they are chosen by Sony because they have a weaker set of standards for actors and writers on those shows. The “star” players (showrunners, stars) still get the same money and/or benefits, but the other writers and actors get lower minimums and weaker benefits. It also hurts them if, say, they have most of their pension and health through the other union (SAG, WGA), and now they interrupt that or don;t contribute to that because they are working these “alternate” union-covered jobs.
It is a lame game, but they pit unions against each other to do their dirty work. Even in this case, Sony repeatedly claims they can do nothing to make it WGA because they are afraid of what 839 will do, but Steve Hulett has said on his blog that he doesn;t care if this show is WGA and that Sony is just using them as an excuse.
So even though it is unfair to say they’re “scab” shows, the sad truth is Sony is on some level using one union to “scab” another…
Greg’s Mom –
I agree that Sony is not the greatest place to work, but they are getting what they want when union people start calling each other scabs. In animation especially this kind of talk is a complete slap. The writers by all accounts made a clear and decisive move, and that is very respectable. Sony can make their move accordingly, but this beating up of IATSE, especially on Nikki’s site (you definitely fed this fire with your original reporting, Nikki) is wrong. Now, if you really want to talk labor in animation, here’s some perspective
-Sony of course, rakes in the the lions share.
-14 or so Writer/Producers, about 5% of total staff, earn, or have potential to earn in the six figures, often well above, and 6-10 SAG actors as well.
-5-10 Directors and AD’s are happy if they make it to six figures
-25-75 artists stateside in various positions pay the bills.
-anywhere from 300-700 artists in Korea, pulling 90% of the weight, bunk in their ‘cubes’ overnight and get fed.
Looks a lot like our current global economy, doesn’t it? (the one that is currently imploding for the states.) A nice, big, long, happy conga line circling the globe and back, with a giant suction raking the ad dollars right from clueless 18-34 yr-old johhny’s pocket and directly into those of the LA elite. Now, I’m not saying IATSE people’s hands are clean in all of this either. But I would bet that more animation directors than WGA producers have made trips to the far east to see it all first hand, for better or worse.
Everyone is taking it hard now. People on the bottom the worst, of course. The ones below are, I assure you all, NOT SCABS.
BTW, thanks for the milk and cookies.
It’s great to see Jonathon Aibel’s and Glenn Berger’s names on the letter posted above, since they are the credited writers on the NON-W.G.A. animated Dreamworks movie, Kung Fu Panda. It would, however, be more courageous of them to fight for W.G.A. coverage for those of us who write for feature animation — or are they afraid of biting Jeffrey’s hand that feeds them?