Comments (27)

• Ned Vaughan, Adam Arkin, Kate Walsh, Ken Howard, and Amy Brenneman have already displayed such willingness to lie,misrepresent, misinform, and attack our negotiators and leadership at such a critical time, that I am truly frightened should they be elected in the Sag Board election next week. The heart of a union is solidarity, something U4S disregards, to the detriment of their own negotiations, their own best interest, all in the name of getting elected. Shame on these ignorant, destructive people. If there’s little going on in negotiations recently, it is not the fault of our SAG negotiators, but rather of the divisive tactics of these renegades and the New York Board. Still no deal is better than a bad deal, and thank God we have a man like Doug Allen, who understands that simple principle, at the helm.

  Comment by truthinadvertising — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 6:37pm PST  Reply to this post

• I hope that this SAG campaign doesn’t turn into the garbage we’re seeing coming out of the McCain Campaign. Anyone working this “do or say anything to get elected” crap can go to hell as far as I am concerned.

  Comment by Simp;yBilly — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 7:05pm PST  Reply to this post

• SimplyBilly,

  Exactly!

  The SAG campaign should be just like Obama/Biden and Hillary Clinton – taking the high road at every turn.

  Comment by ordinaryjoe — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 8:22pm PST  Reply to this post

• Well, in today’s world of digital video and YouTube, somebody’s gotta have a correct record of what was said and/or what wasn’t at that debate. (McCain’s still learning that this new video technology exists, and it’s biting him in the ass at every turn…)

  Comment by Ace — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 8:40pm PST  Reply to this post

• Well of course Glenn Close would be very happy with her contract. After all she is the Ex. Producer of the show. She is like John McCain telling the Homeless he feels their pain then going home to one of his 9 houses.

  Comment by Yosemite — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 9:33pm PST  Reply to this post

• In his response, Ned Vaughn proved that he really does miss the point when it comes to the vast majority of actors. Of course Glenn Close is perfectly capable of getting a great contract. She’s got some combination of people – agent & manager & entertainment attorney – to handle all of this for her. To a significant extent, this is also true of Tate Donovan and William Hurt, whether the latter’s happy with the AFTRA residuals structure or not.
  The folks Ned Vaughn apparently did NOT reference at this event by name are the series regulars on the lower rungs and the guest stars and the day players. Maybe it’s because they’re all in William Hurt’s position only perhaps even moreso, and they need the work and the money NOW and don’t have the luxury of holding out for the SAG work that actually will get them residuals the first year.
  And BTW “Anonymous”, of course Brett Cullen didn’t turn down the work, and of course actors who are currently at the level of an Anthony DeSantis would take the work. This doesn’t disprove the importance of collective bargaining, nor does it disprove the onerous nature of the AFTRA contract – and the extra giveaways AFTRA routinely signs off on with production companies.
  All of that PROVES the value of collective bargaining, of standing together in solidarity. It PROVES the importance of having a single GUILD for actors, a transparent guild that puts its membership first and is willing to hold out and fight for the contract actors need to keep this creative and professional pursuit from sliding into the realm of a hobby.
  I do have one question. Is it possible that labor members who are conservative Republicans – and with very few exceptions, actors are strictly labor in this equation – are on the lunatic fringe right-wing side of the political fence either because of very strongly-held views on social issues such as abortion or “family values”, OR because they’re suffering from some weird labor/management version of Stockholm Syndrome???

  Comment by mheister — Saturday September 13, 2008 @ 9:58pm PST  Reply to this post

• I guess what I find amusing about Mr. Hurt’s comment: “He said he was only doing television to make money, since he hated how fast one has to work. And that he was angry at having a contract in which he would not receive any residuals for a year.”

  1)First of all if I recall in his interview with TV Guide at the TCA Fox All Star party he seemed very happy to work on “Damages” because of the top-rate cast and writing. He said he was a fan of the show. Now he’s complaining that residual pay won’t show up on his door step for a year. Well I guess I have a solution go find another project to work on.

  2)Mr. Hurt is complaining about the pace of television. Yes, television is not a movie set you will work with a fast production and tighter budget. In television the writer is “king” not the director and yes you will work with probably eight-ten different directors for the season. By the way Mr. Hurt is on 10 of the 13 episodes being produced and is not in every scene and the success of the show is not riding on his shoulders as they are for Glenn Close and the rest of the principal cast.

  3)Lastly, is my concern that Mr. Hurt’s comments will reach the Damages set at Steiner Studios causing morale issues. The cast and crew doesn’t need this they are hard working dedicated people making a terrific show as a strong unified team. I think anyone who has a one season arc in a series should remember they are a guest in somebody’s home and act accordingly.

  Personally, I think any actor who is working on television on a regular basis should feel blessed and thankful they have a job.

  Comment by RTA — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 8:03am PST  Reply to this post

• is Brett Cullen EVER happy?

  Comment by realist — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 8:32am PST  Reply to this post

• So, now SAGWATCH is claiming that “Damages” was going to be shot in
  Canada if it had to be SAG. Absolute lie. Glenn Close, over a year
  ago, made it very clear that if she was to do a series, it would have
  to be shot in the U.S. Specifically New York due to her family
  commitments. She was very clear on that.
  Also, AFTRA’s low ball contracts do not prevent shows from shooting in
  Canada. All one needs to say is “Kyle XY.” They just keep pilling on
  the lies. They can’t runaway from the fact that we caught Vaughn in a
  big fat lie. And Hurt called him on that.

  Comment by ho ho ho — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 10:17am PST  Reply to this post

• RTA -

  You should certainly understand the huge difference between what is said publicly in this industry, that is, for the consumption of the general public AKA the consumers of the content, and what is said privately. What JoBeth Williams reported was in the latter category, and became public (not ET/Access Hollywood public, but public nonetheless), because Ned Vaughn apparently chose to bring Mr. Hurt’s name into a public discussion of labor issues even though Mr. Hurt apparently was not making himself publicly active in these issues.

  It is also apparent that once Mr. Hurt’s name was brought into the discussion, he was upset, and reported as much to his friend Ms. Williams. Ms. Williams’ quoting of Mr. Hurt was only in the context of a response to Mr. Vaughn’s public pronouncements about Mr. Hurt.

  As for morale on the Damages set, I’m sure everyone there already knows full well what I just explained to you, and will behave as the professionals they are.

  The broader point remains. AFTRA does an inferior job of representing actors, and we need to continue to call out this producer-lapdog company union for its frakked priorities.

  By now, as public as this discussion has become, every mogul in our industry knows which actors’ GUILD is going to be better for morale. If they choose a federation instead of a guild, IMHO, they’re getting what they pay for.

  Comment by mheister — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 11:36am PST  Reply to this post

• “Personally, I think any actor who is working on television on a regular basis should feel blessed and thankful they have a job.”

  RTA

  Blessed and thankful?

  You mean, like – “yes, massa, i’se bllepsed and thank y’all fo dis heuh job you ain payin me dat much fo. I don mine flyin myselfs heuh on mise own dime an rentin a playpse tu live fo, oh bout 2 thousand dolla a munt. dis here’s right jenerus of y’all. tanks a million! i means, uh, 1000 dolla a week and no residuls. dis heah union one heckuva strong buncha negosheeaytoes! dey gets was right and deys don taik no foh dee ansuh. no suh. dey tells dem conglomuhraights – dis heah? dis heah MAH uneyun – dis heah ain jes any uneyun! dis heah de umercan fedulashun a raydee-oh an telbilision ardis – youse got tu tawk tuh us foist foah you go maikin jes anee deal wid deese heah woikuhs! top dollah – yaise suh. an we willin’ ta fight foah dat too!

  corse… dat screen actuhs gilb – dats lookin pretty nice right boud now.

  tell me mistuh? how do ise get dayuh?

  Comment by slave labor — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 11:37am PST  Reply to this post

• You know – after I got done spitting up laughing at “slave labor’s” comment, I realized something – this whole notion of how thankful and blessed we actors should be when we get a job? Is the biggest load of horseshit I’ve ever heard, and my guess is it has long been promoted by the AMPTP to perpetuate this myth that actors should be scraping and bowing to display how grateful they are to work.

  Why? It’s one of, if not the toughest, ways to make a living in the country, hands down. You show me one other union that boasts a 90% unemployment rate at any given time. You know what? There aren’t any. It’s not digging ditches or coal mining, but those guys at least know they have a job and where they will work and when.

  Actors? Forget it. The AMPTP promotes this myth that we should shut up and be happy they pay us at all! So, when SAG finds itself in a position like this – an internal play for power from a faction – Unite For Strength, whose whole agenda is “give up, sign the deal, then merge with AFTRA,” a union that has behaved horribly for years in making terrible deal after terrible deal for actors with the AMPTP, there’s a kind of collective guilt that befalls union actors, that is in fact, reminiscent of a kind of “take-what-we-can-get-and-be-thankful-we-get-anything” mentality.

  Stars are not really acting like union members, for all intents and purposes. I don’t see one of them putting himself or herself on the line for SAG. Cowardly, if you ask me. They seem to, when pressed, choose a side, SAG or AFTRA, then display a certain “support,” by following through in a meager, weak way: a name on a list, a brief public statement here or there, that kind of thing.

  But, where are the stars taking out an ad or calling a press conference, telling the AMPTP that, as fortunate as he or she is to have made that kind of money, what is happening to their fellow, middle class SAG members is wrong, and they will fight it. Where is that person? Name one, who has gone out on a limb for SAG and put their reputation and career on the line?

  AFTRA has Sally Field, who has, inexplicably, decided to back a faction that has expressed a desire to disenfranchise large amounts of SAG voters, then backed off that pledge, and now supports the destruction of The Screen Actors Guild via a merger with AFTRA that will result in a third entity called something else and have an entirely new infrastructure and leadership.

  Unless I’m mistaken, that’s the end of SAG that’s being proposed. Frankly, I would guess Ms. Field has a limited grasp of the issues, and if pressed would be liable to display a lack of detailed understanding of exactly how AFTRA has repeatedly undercut, betrayed and lied both to SAG, and its own membership, in it’s insatiable thirst for money, power and increased jurisdiction.

  Strength is in one thing: solidarity. The elected membership of SAG should be doing its job without interference from the peanut gallery. It’s like Unite For Strength has come to a convention on the eve of an election and is planning to “take the floor” although the floor isn’t theirs to take. WE have a fight on our hands, correct? Is now the time for a selfish faction to send the counterproductive message to the AMPTP that SAG is torn by dissension?

  It’s time union actors stood up to the AMPTP, understanding that, while the producers finance the product, the actors are indispensable makers of that product.

  SAG is not the air traffic controllers – as vital a skill as those men and women had when Ronald Reagan (how ironic – former Democrat, former SAG President, but, ultimately, conservative, pandering, race baiting, union breaking, toad) replaced them, the replacements could be and were, quickly taught the job.

  SAG actors need to value themselves, understand the AMPTP is producing nothing without them, vote to strike if necessary, and be prepared to do just that. Make no mistake, this new media space the producers are trying to manipulate to their advantage, is the beginning of the end for the middle class actor, if SAG allows them to get away with it.

  Stop being “thankful and grateful,” start being self-respecting and unbowed, and go get your rights, as performers and as human beings.

  Comment by 20 Year SAG/AFTRA Member — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 3:21pm PST  Reply to this post

• If you sign a contract and complain then you’re an idiot!

  I think it should be mandatory if you complain about your contracts after signing them you must do an OFF OFF BROADWAY play on 42nd and 10th on the 5th floor before your agent can return a call. Please focus on what’s important and what’s at stake.

  Comment by film banshee — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 3:27pm PST  Reply to this post

• What U4S seems incapable of understanding is that the luck of being a series regular and the pay scale that goes along with it in many ways has little to do with the concerns of the membership as a whole. (And I’m not suggesting it is pure luck.)

  Yes Ned, we understand Glenn Close is happy with her contract, but is “reporter #3″? Or is it that the actor who plays that role is silly to you Ned, and unimportant? It seems you’re not so concerned with him, but more with keeping your steady career moving and the paychecks coming in for you. And there’s nothing wrong with that per se- although it’s a bit selfish– but it’s not what we’re looking for in a candidate. You get that, right?

  The contract and its provisions for scale rates is the framework that effects the largest part of the UNION membership. Even many known actors are given a take it or leave it for scale offer these days. The current contract negotiations are not a punchline to us, Ned. The outcome literally decides if we live or die in this business.

  But thanks for the info. that Glenn Close is pleased. Duh.

  Comment by zackery — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 3:30pm PST  Reply to this post

• If you want to STOP the contracts that AFTRA has then MERGE and phase them out! The new union would be 83% current SAG members and we would carry a complete majority.

  The point of MERGING is to get rid of the contracts that don’t meet our requirements and work as a UNITED FRONT to get better conditions.

  This attack on AFTRA will last for YEARS and EVERY SINGLE ACTOR will LOSE money and benefits every day it goes on.

  AFTRA IS NOT GOING AWAY, nor have I seen a single plan to make them! Blame them if you want, but the ONLY way to make it better is to UNITE AND FIGHT the AMPTP.

  Actors fighting Actors. SAG fighting AFTRA. SAG Hollywood fighting SAG Regional Branches. It’s all a recipe for disaster and ONLY ONE WHO WINS IS THE AMPTP. WE CANNOT FIGHT EVERYONE!

  Stop the hate and the fear mongering and let’s get TOGETHER. This is just plain stupid.

  Comment by Duh — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 5:49pm PST  Reply to this post

• Duh

  there’s just such a plan:

  go to membership first’s website and click on “our plan – you have the power to take it back.”

  what you fail to understand, duh, is the counter – intuitive logic of merging with an entity, aftra, that has been attacking you and hurting actors by undercutting wages and benefits even though they put in writing that they would not do that (cvr-17).

  this is not new. this has been going on for years.

  and it’s a nice talking point that the new union would be dominated by sag, so therefore it would – duh! – be essentially, sag without the current problems.

  well a+b doesn’t equal c in this case, unfortunately, duh.

  a+b= a big bag of shit.

  all you mention, and so fervently wish for, has been ruminated over for decades. surely you must understand this, yes?

  the 2003 plan (for the 18th time) consisted of 3 “silos” – actors, broadcasters and recording artists. there would have been a governing body over all three silos. sag’s financial independence and operational autonomy were NOT assured under this plan, and anyone who tells you different is LYING.

  the merger of sag and aftra p&h plans also had serious questions, and a trustee (bound by federal law to the members of the plans – NOT sag or aftra) went on record saying the sag plan (healthy) would end up subsidizing the aftra plan (not healthy) and the sag folks would very likely see their benefits reduced to close the gap.

  now, if you have a nice sag pension coming that you’ve earned over the years, that’s not something you want to hear. at all. ever. the idea that, as ned vaughn says “we’ll figure it out when we get there” is an unacceptable answer when you are asked about merger and you, ideally, would like to maybe run this new entity replacing sag and aftra, yourself.

  that’s not an acceptable answer, duh.

  also, the idea that those two post-nuclear union cockroaches, roberta reardon and kim hedgepath, would support anything that ned vaughn had to say that would require either one of them to relinquish power, and in hedgepath’s case, quite a lot of money, so ned fucking vaughn could merge the unions? is high on psychedelic mushrooms.

  the plan that, at this point, makes the most sense, and is long, long, overdue, is to maintain mf’s majority in this election, go get a strike authorization vote (the ONLY weapon sag has ultimately), go tell the amptp to suck our dick, and strike if necessary.

  then, once that’s settled and sag has pulled off the impossible and obtained a fair contract, which is all we’ve been asking for from day one – a deal that doesn’t create a huge non-union space in our own contract, against our core principals, and start the ball quickly rolling towards a not distant future (in some instances it’s already here) where middle class actors incomes are cut in half, THEN, sag will send out a referendum asking, simply, of the 44 thousand dual card holders: “sag or aftra?”

  we all know how THAT will turn out. then sag will walk over to roberta reardon’s office and inform her that she’s done repping actors and sag will help her transition into a union that reps broadcasters and recording artists. if she refuses to consider this inevitability, sag will point out that SHE is not aftra, the MEMBERS are aftra, and they decide what they want to do.

  lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, blah, blah, blah – a union for all actors under one roof:

  the screen actors guild.

  duh.

  Comment by Doh! — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 7:44pm PST  Reply to this post

• I grew up in Michigan where my father was a white collar middle manager for an auto manufacturer’s small satellite plant. Every year there was that week we never saw him at home because they had “negotiations” at the plant where he had to argue the company’s position and keep the workers presumed increase in pay and benefits as low as possible. That was the start of my understanding that there are always two sides to negotiations and three sides to the truth.

  With this understanding, and viewing the situation we now face, I am glad that I’ve waited until this week to mail in my ballot for SAG leadership. When the arguments were first raised, I agreed with the philosophy of affected voting and merging the unions. With over twenty years of production experience in my past, I know that there are a good number of crew members that hold a SAG card but are never in front of the camera unless it’s one of those crew shots in the show or movie, or the director just liked that persons look for a featured walk-thru type thing. I know there are others who would like to attempt to cross over but they pay their bills and provide for their families with their “stable” production money. The question, though is, when it comes to a strike vote, will they side with actors to do the right thing, or with the producers who actually allow them to earn a decent wage?

  And I believe there are actors in the outlying (inlying?) areas of the country who very likely hold the opinion that they are fortunate to have an acting job when they even get one. I believed that the working, caring, informed, liberal thinking actors in LA/NY that met the qualifying requirements would be able to make the right decision that would affect ALL actors when they voted on the major issues that determined the shape of the Guild and future working conditions.

  But then the politicization started. So I had to become a bit more critical about my personal position. I came from the production side, as mentioned, and I wanted to be a producer when I grew up. Still do, as a matter of fact. (Want to be a producer, and to grow up.) But in my early years here in LA, I saw what a producer was and couldn’t identify one iota with that character. So I just stayed a below the line worker hoping for benevolence from those I worked long and hard for. You are no doubt not surprised when I say it never came.

  When I started on the acting path of my life, desiring more creativity coming out of my personal actions, I knew I had to be a part of SAG; that was the measure of professionalism in our business of performing in TV and film productions. After four years of classes, student films and auditioning for commercials, I did find myself fortunate to be Taft-Hartley’d into SAG. Now two years later, I’m still looking for the opportunities to make a living at what I want to do with my life.

  I don’t see that happening if we let AMPTP off with the deal they’ve so graciously offered and then walked away from, saying take it or FU. DVD residuals have never been updated to fair market value. I see no reason why they would consider anything different with internet distribution, once that gets “understood” in terms of revenue opportunities. It’s funny that when the studios/network/entertainment conglomerates raise money to expand their business position including the digital realm, they sell and sell based on future big bucks coming in. But they tell us that there’s no future written in the same realm because it’s only “potential” revenue and they can’t give in because it wouldn’t be a sound business decision.

  I am and always have been an optimist. I believed in the convergence of the computer and television ten years ago. Even though it’s taken this long to get to this point, it’s going to take even longer to get to _that_ point. But have no doubt, we are going to get there. Eventually. And I can look at my position and say that no matter what happens, at least I won’t be losing what many actors who have already invested the time in their careers will, if we let AMPTP run ruffshod over what little we’re asking for in comparison to the potential monies that will be made.

  With a background colored by my “white collar” dreams, I understand how the AMPTP is thinking, and I can’t deny that they are just looking out for the best business deal. And I can’t fault them for thinking that way. But my “blue collar” position now causes me to believe that we have to hold the producers to the same moral stipulations that I recently saw fought for in a repeated airing of Hoffa on HBOSHOMAX, or whatever. I don’t want the intimidations, broken bones, or deaths that accompanied that movement to be repeated here, but there is an exact correlation in our current situation.

  There are many important issues that SAG’s negotiating team is attempting to resolve, like product integration, DVD residuals, “French hours” (????), Force Majeure, and even mileage, but the major ones, by far the most important in my opinion, are the ones to do with the New/Now Media space; contract coverage, residuals for new productions and for older shows shown on the internet, as well as clip usuage.

  I never thought I would be a Union Guy. But here I am, saying that we need to stick together and keep our solidarity held up to the bosses that look to bust our union, who look to see the business devolve into the haves and want to haves. Because that will only reinforce their position. We need to maintain that middle class in our profession, the same thing that is being touted every day in this national election cycle.

  Being a professional little paid actor for the short time that I have been, I don’t personally know the people on either side of the debate, those who side with MF or U4S. There are many names mentioned on the U4S web site that I look up to as outstanding actors, and even as people who speak their mind on things outside of our business. But in this situation, I’m going with those who seem to be the clear thinking ones on the major issues that affect our livelihood and our financial future. The ones who put together the Membership First coalition, who I reckoned during my first SAG vote had the right vision for the Actor. They seem to be the adults in this case.

  I don’t have all the answers, just my opinion. But here’s my simple solution to the merge issue. Consolidate all actors who perform in soaps, made for TV movies, TV sitcoms and dramas, into SAG with those actors who already do most of the TV shows and all the movies along with the puppeteers, stunt people and such. Keep AFTRA for any television talent that does not fit into a “performance” category as we can now easily distinguish; news people, talk show hosts, reality show actors, radio personalties, whatever. But the dual card holders will need to drop the AFTRA affiliation. That way SAG will be negotiating for actors of all types. AFTRA will negotiate for all other TV broadcasting types.

  Oh yeah, will TV as we know it even be around in ten years? Oh well, that can be decided later, when the digital future becomes more clear.

  Comment by 2yearSAGmember — Sunday September 14, 2008 @ 10:05pm PST  Reply to this post

• Doh,

  So the plan is to force all dual card holding actors to make a decision on WHICH union will negoatiate contracts for Actors and then take that to AFTRA in an attempt to force AFTRA to give up 75% of their membership to SAG? And if they don’t, MF will go after them from the INSIDE?!

  That’s ridiculous, naive, most likely illegal and exteremely reckless for all Actors. I heard the rumours, but to put it out there on their site tells me the MF is the most reckless force for actors that could be imagined.

  First, I’m betting that there are laws about interference with other unions that complete invalidate this “plan”. The Labor Laws frown upon hostile take over of unions. Have they even vetted the plan with legal? I know they haven’t. It won’t get to square one.

  Second, the “will” of AFTRA’s membership said TAKE THE CONTRACT despite the outrageous attempt by SAG to intercede in their ratification (I’m betting there is a law suit there if MF is elected to another term). If they couldn’t win there, how will they win with this?

  Third, AFTRA would be OUT OF BUSINESS if they took a loss of 75% of their membership. Any union would. There is NO WAY they would allow that to happen without a fight.

  Fourth, it would take 87% of those dual card holders VOTING to make a even majority of AFTRA membership (38000 out of the 44000 dual card holders).

  Fifth, the vote would be entirely toothless (and what if it DIDN’T come out the way MF wants it to??) and hold no weight for AFTRA leadership. Just like the ratification killed SAG’s Negotiating power, a defeat (which is very likely) would be devastating.

  Thus we jump ahead to the hostile take over from within because the vote is an empty, hostile gesture that won’t work and will most likley open SAG up to legal action from AFTRA. And remember how well it worked out with the ratification!

  So the hostile take over attempt will take years. During such time, AFTRA will be taking more and more of SAG’s contracts, further splitting out pension and health, further allowing the AMPTP to continue their extremely successful game of divide and conquer and ALL ACTORS LOSE.

  All because the MF needs a rally cry for the election. My god, the inmates are running the insane asylum.

  If Hollywood members are naive enough to vote MF in, it’s the end of SAG as we know it.

  For those who haven’t made up their minds, go ahead and LISTEN to the plan. If you think it’s a good idea, then good luck. This is a war that we will all lose. It’s lunacy.

  If you agree with me that it’s outrageous, then you MUST vote U4S and get everyone you KNOW to vote for U4S.

  Comment by Duh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 8:51am PST  Reply to this post

• Doh,

  And as to the strike authorization, WHY haven’t we gotten one yet???? Because most SAG members don’t trust the MF with a strike authorization. Look at the commercials strike and everything else for the reasons.

  If MF thought they could get 75% of SAG to agree to it, the poll would have been an actual strike authorization and NOT an Opinion Poll that is pretty meaningless by itself.

  MF was done with any leverage they had when they lost the ratification attack on AFTRA.

  We are a fractured union. Until we get our act together, the producers will be laughing at us and all Actors will be losing BIG TIME. U4S is the only hope we have of UNITING Actors rather than alienating EVERYONE.

  For those who haven’t voted yet, VOTE…. PLEASE. END THIS INSANITY.

  Comment by Duh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 8:58am PST  Reply to this post

• Duh:

  “Second, the “will” of AFTRA’s membership said TAKE THE CONTRACT despite the outrageous attempt by SAG to intercede in their ratification”

  oh duh, you simple man. if sag, forced by aftra’s lying ways, into a quickie “vote no” campaign, had another 2 weeks? that contract would have been voted down. how else do you explain all those dual card holders you site as being “outraged” at sag’s campaign voting FOR a “no” on the aftra contract? I believe, about 40% said “no,” – only 60% said “yes,” in a vote that ALWAYS, when recommended by 90% or above by the board – comes back ratified by 90% or above by the membership. obviously, you do NOT have the support of a substantial number of dual card holders, and sag is just getting STARTED.

  mf posted the plan to force aftra out of repping actors, because they are finally, once and for all, sick and tired of aftra’s sniveling, cheap, backstabbing ways. so, desperate times call for desperate measures. one thing you will find yourself standing, well, not necessarily alone on, but with a comparatively small group of actors (assuming you are one and a dual card holder) is the “sag or aftra” referendum, coming soon to a mailbox near you. the vast majority of dual cardholders are not as inside baseball as you and I, but they ALL get this: sag? good aftra? sucks.

  game over.

  Comment by Doh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 11:32am PST  Reply to this post

• Doh,

  “mf posted the plan to force aftra out of repping actors, because they are finally, once and for all, sick and tired of aftra’s sniveling, cheap, backstabbing ways. so, desperate times call for desperate measures.”

  Well, I agree this is a desperate measure by MF. The problem with desperate measures is they are never well thought out, prone to blow up your face and used only when there are no alternatives left.

  I think that describes it just perfectly.

  Comment by Duh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 12:09pm PST  Reply to this post

• duh:

  read the post on this site about the wall street meltdown. especially the last paragraph. you think these rats (the amptp) want a strike now?

  sag should hold strong for a fair deal. that will probably take a strike authorization, cause the suits won’t budge till they know it’s a reality. once they do? my guess is their bowels will start to loosen. it’s not in their best interest now to go toe to toe with the maker of their product just so they can make 50 billion instead of 45 billion. which is what this is all about – you do realize that duh, yes?

  Comment by Doh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 6:23pm PST  Reply to this post

• Duh,

  It’s a double edged sword. How much less is YOUR portfolio worth now with the stock market, the real estate crisis and the recession? How many Actors can afford to be without a job? How many Actors and below the line people will be forced into bankruptcy if there is another strike? And if the MF’s plan for getting a better contract is as ridiculous as the plan for beating AFTRA into submission, we are ALL in trouble. AFTRA films, here we come!

  You know what makes the AMPTP laugh?

  1) Seeing MF fight with Regional Branches that make up almost half of SAG.
  2) Seeing MF fail to beat AFTRA on the ratification
  3) Seeing MF create an absurd plan that pretty much GUARANTEES that SAG and AFTRA will be competing with each other for years to come.

  SAG can’t hold strong because a good chunk of SAG actors do not trust MF to lead us.

  Don’t you think if the MF thought they could get a strike authorization THEY WOULD DO SO rather than put out an opinion poll?

  Like you said, “desperate measures”. Scary times to be a reasonable person searching for a REAL solution.

  The day of reckoning is hopefully at hand.

  Comment by Duh — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 8:23pm PST  Reply to this post

• Fighting among our self’s during contact negotiation is insane. Slate vs. Slate, member against member, all of this and more while contract negotiations are going on are not in our best interest.Do you really think that two warring factions in the boardroom can function while protecting your interest? If no, then vote Independent

  Stop… The Insanity Vote independent
  Gary Watts # 43 on your ballot
  Be Independent Vote Independent
  Even if you only vote for one or two candidates …vote

  Comment by ~ Gary Watts ~ — Monday September 15, 2008 @ 10:00pm PST  Reply to this post

• Duh

  ode to the gutless:

  oh the misinformed, who have been warned
  they shuck and jive to keep alive
  and so the suits, whose horn they toots
  suits make them crawl, they yell and stall
  to force sags hand “don’t take a stand!”
  do what we say! make hay, make hay!
  and yet the sun, it’s shining done
  behind a cloud no longer proud
  sag actors balk and talk the talk
  but walk the walk? they scream they squawk
  they rail and rant
  they puff they pant
  the end is here! we live in fear!
  of men with ties who tell such lies
  we know aren’t true
  what should we do?
  I have a clue – it’s tried it’s true
  it worked for them, why not for you?
  we must be strong! we are not wrong!
  we’re in the right! it’s time to fight
  those bastard suits, so grab your glutes
  and follow us, get on the train and steady boys!
  inflict some pain
  on les and bob, and jeff and ben
  remind them all – remember when,
  directors caved and writers then -
  and actors too! in hopes that you
  would keep your word – like waiting for
  a donkey turd, to turn into -
  a swan.

  Comment by T-rex — Tuesday September 16, 2008 @ 11:32am PST  Reply to this post

• Duh

  no, I don’t think so.

  I describe “infinity” as the amount of times I’ve written this to sieve-heads like you:

  a. poll

  b. election results

  then depending on what happens:

  c. strike authorization vote

  d. strike till fair deal

  e. get fair deal with threat of strike, no strike

  f. turn and make aftra a union that reps small woodland creatures.

  the plan. write it down. don’t ask again.

  Comment by Doh — Tuesday September 16, 2008 @ 1:40pm PST  Reply to this post

• Doh,

  Yep, the plan smacks of desperation and of course it’s nowhere on the MF site or in any of the publications they have pushed on the membership. Let’s address the issues:

  a) Poll is useless because they asked a loaded question. 12 pages of how BAD the deal is and a lame choice of “cave” or “keep negotiating” with no plan on HOW to keep negotiating. Again, why wasn’t that a STRIKE AUTHORIZATION??! I’ve asked over and over again.

  b) Yep, that will make SOME difference, but only for the HOLLYWOOD contingency. Even IF MF is elected by 50%, that leaves the rest of Hollywood and the other half of SAG that MF has alienated (say the NY Board to name a few). Still nowhere near a 75% majority to force the strike.

  c) If 75% of the membership is crazy enough to trust the MF to lead us through the strike (see b above) AND are in a position to go without work for an undefined period of time after a 100 day writers strike and a significant work slowdown so far this season then and ONLY then could we have a strike of threat thereof.

  d) Contingent upon b and c above.

  e) Same as d.

  f) With the most likely illegal and reckless ‘desperate measure’ that will continue to pit actor against actor.

  You see, I don’t like the contract. But the recklessness of MF in kicking AFTRA to the curb and allowing them to GET A CONTRACT that competes with SAG, attacking AFTRA and LOSING on the ratification, the factions within SAG, the economic pressures of everyone who has suffered for almost a year due to the WGA strike and the recession all add up to a significant loss of negotiation leverage to bargain with.

  You don’t list a plan, you list a pipe dream that is unbased in reality.

  Again, if MF were SERIOUS about forcing the AMPTP’s hand, they would have already pushed for a strike authorization months ago. But they haven’t and we are stuck in a “non-negotiation” because and SOLEY BECAUSE we do NOT HAVE ALL THE ACTORS ON THE SAME SIDE!!!

  Silly me… I don’t want to wait the years that it will take to obliterate AFTRA, if that is even possible, which I seriously doubt. I would like to actually get more gains by UNITING and solving every single problem you have mentioned in the process.

  Go figure.

  Comment by Duh — Tuesday September 16, 2008 @ 8:06pm PST  Reply to this post