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Los Angeles, (Sept. 30, 2008) – The Screen Actors Guild released the following statement from SAG National executive director and chief negotiator Doug Allen in response to the AMPTP’s Sept. 29, 2008 statement:
“We are disappointed to hear that the employers and their AMPTP representatives are refusing to engage in the process necessary to complete a deal. We do not believe that their rejection of our reasonable request is in the best interests of our members or the industry. Our National Negotiating Committee will be meeting later this week to consider management’s response.”
- AMPTP Rejects Today’s SAG Overture
- SAG Sends Letter To Chernin, Iger, Counter To Restart Formal Negotiations
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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Yesterday SAG said “can we talk” AMPTP said “no” Now SAG is upset and will have a meeting this week to talk about it.
Thanks Doug.
Now, can you please send us the strike authorization and let the membership decide it’s own fate? What is there for YOU to talk about? This is clearly a dog and pony show – send AMPTP confrontational, snarky, yet courteous and seemingly professional letter, stating that you’d narrowed it down to three issues(!?) after many months, and if the AMPTP would just reconsider and come on in for a friendly meet, we can get this thing done.
AMPTP sends letter telling you, in friendly, professional way, to shove it. Now, you release brief statement, saying you’re going to talk it over and consider a response.
There is mounting evidence that ex football players are suffering the results of blows to the head after playing in the NFL for years. As an ex-player yourself (a scab from the NFL strike in the 80′s I read. Deeply unfortunate, but apparently true) do you think you may be suffering from early onset STUPIDITY?
What, in God’s name, is your PLAN DOUG? To… what? Just TELL us! You work for US! WE pay YOU! So, let’s hear it! It’s like in Apollo 13 where Hanks asks for the rough sketch info for the re-entry, and they keep spouting boilerplate from Houston, and finally Bacon says “They have no plan. They don’t know how we get back.”
We’re all aware you don’t have a plan Doug and Allan. Your plan is – stall. But, for what? Just send the damn strike authorization vote! You don’t need to have a meeting for that. Let’s go! I, personally – will vote to strike! But send the damn ballot – let’s get it over with!
Can you say dumber than a bag of hammers? These guys have backed every member of SAG into a corner, and now want Nick and the boys to throw ‘em a bone. Well, guess what. That cupboard is bare. They are responsible for a debacle, and unwilling to take responsibility. Demonstrably delusional. It’s about time to re-write Doug’s job description. He can stay and draw his salary, but he works the security desk in the building lobby instead of sitting in the corner office. And the new board finds somebody who knows how to negotiate a contract in this town.
“Oh, and Alan, you appoint committees with the approval of the board. And you know who we ain’t gonna approve any more? It is a short list, and growing shorter.”
Wow – such aggression from uninformed people!
In the very first place, there is a negotiating committee! Yes, Doug Allen is the head of that committee, but he doesn’t make the only and/or final decision about what happens in our negotiations.
Secondly, Doug Allen is a seasoned contract negotiator – something SAG has lacked for decades with regards to contract talks with the AMPTP. Which is why so many people don’t understand what’s going on behind those closed doors – and why AMPTP isn’t their usual free ride on SAG’s back. SAG is used to flopping around on the floor, praying that AMPTP will be nice and deal fairly with us. Hasn’t happened in the past – especially not this time around. Wake up, people!
In case you haven’t heard, there is a negotiation going on. There are steps that have to be taken before other steps are taken. Doug Allen knows those steps because he’s done it before. Strike? Yeah, I’m in. But you don’t ram it down their throats. There’s a process for this kind of thing and you naysayers don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
If you people, Ichabod and Franklin, really are SAG members, you (and the rest of the complainers) would be best served by keeping your mouths shut and showing Doug some fucking respect.
Do you know how to negotiate a union contract? No.
Do you know what’s going on behind closed doors? No.
Do you hear the private conversations Doug has had with the AMPTP? No.
Doug is our guy. He’s doing what he’s good at and what he’s paid to do. I’m tired of you pussies willing to bend over and take it, but then bitching about how you’re getting it. Now STFU and stand with your union already.
Go get ‘em, Doug.
Ace, perhaps you could remember that as Union members, we have the right to question the process.
And, if we don’t like the results of the process, we have the right to change it.
I think the first couple of posters were a little out of the ballpark with their response, but you’re out there as well. The Union works for *us*. We don’t work for the Union.
(My own opinion, a strike now would only be symbolic. There’s almost nothing being shot at the moment, and we’re close to the traditional end of year shut down anyway)
Brave words, Ace…you sound a little like Teddy Roosevelt getting ready to storm Kettle Hill, only the hill in this case is made of quicksand. The ONLY reason Doug Allen and Alan Rosenberg are rattling their sabers again at this point is because the new board members are coming in shortly and they KNOW what that means for their aims. I respect your desire to back your team, but there are many, many of us out here who have lost all faith in their ability to lead this union, let alone negotiate for it. A union member can still love his union but see when it’s on the wrong path. We are not weak and we are not “pussies”. What we are is resolute in our belief that there is a better way to do things. And Ace, our hill to climb, in my humble opinion, has much more solid footing.
The Screen Actors Guild is a strong, democratic, economically sound labor organization.
S.A.G. has a power, greater than other show-business unions, to shut down the industry.
Some S.A.G. members are ideologically opposed to using a strike to counter the greed, meanness and wealth of the studios and networks. Their ideology was embodied by presidents Richard Masur and Melissa Gilbert. They see the actors’ unions as amiable collaborators with a largely benign alliance of employer-partners.
Some members are simply too scared to use the power of withholding their labor. It’s understandable. As lone individuals, we actors face multiple forms of intimidation from week-to-week, year after year. So we under-estimate the strength we possess when we act in unity.
And then there are the non-members. At least two types.
(1) those who pretend to be loyal, but frustrated members of S.A.G.
(2) those who claim to work at other trades in the industry. For the most part, both types of non-members are hostile to S.A.G., but they disguise their hostility as contempt for the elected leadership of S.A.G. and the elected leadership’s choice of National Executive Director.
These non-members, usually hiding behind pseudonyms, carry out the mission of undermining a strong union. They are human-animal hybrids carrying the DNA of a certain structure-attacking insect.
RazorHawk – termite, drywood, authoritarian, doesn’t believe in committees or in democracy.
“Franklin Barr” – termite, subterranean, who fakes the resolve to vote for a strike.
Ichabod Crane – termite, drywood, vehement, forceful, incoherent, sawdust in maw.
“Leo Ruvy” – termite, subterranean, attacks on union are wrapped in righteous, free-speech declarations.
Are We There Yet – termite, drywood, like many other drywoods, resolutely declares there is “a better way of doing things,” never specifying that “way,” or volunteering to join a S.A.G. working committee or running for election to implement his better way.
Dave Clennon – persistent, plodding, industrious Dung Beetle.
Leo,
I’m all for questioning the process – it’s not only our right, but our responsibility. The point I was making is that questioning a/the process does NOT include publicly vilifying the people involved in that process, especially when the people bitching haven’t been paying attention when their questions have been answered. They just don’t like the answers.
Any SAG member who wants SAG to prevail in this process would be foolish to publicly decry their own management. It would be counter-productive. Therefore, it’s easy to dismiss any of these loudmouths as shills for the opposition – the AMPTP – but I hesitate to do so because, well, it’s too easy. So if they’re not shills, they must be… oh, I don’t know… ignorant?
I’m not suggesting that all SAG members should agree with my views, but I do believe that with the right information all SAG members would, at the very least, keep a closed public mouth and a watchful eye. Doing otherwise only tends to hurt our case for unity in the face of aggression. You have a problem? – take it to the board. That’s what it’s there for. But keep it out of the public eye, huh?
And while I appreciate your opinion of my being “out there”, I’m not. I do emphasize some words in italics, but that doesn’t mean that I’m ranting or SHOUTING. What I am is fed up with people who don’t know what they’re talking about, vilifying our leaders publicly and adding to the misconception that SAG is doing something wrong – with the contract negotiations, in this case – and assisting the AMPTP in making the case that SAG is divided and weakened because of it. To those people, I say get thee to a SAG membership meeting. Learn something factual for a change instead of reading (and believing) spew and spin from the opposition.
We are not some chickenshit “federation” run by so-called leaders who sell us out to keep said “federation” financially afloat. We are the Screen Actor’s Guild, dammit, and we are powerful when we stand firm on our beliefs. I’m proud to say that. I’m calling for every SAG member to stand up and show support for the people who are doing our bidding. Doing that is what will make us stronger. This is what is called solidarity. I’ve stated this before: if the negotiating committee had the full membership’s support in the very first place, a fair contract would have been signed long before July 1st.
One last thing: you’re right – Doug works for us, and he’ll be the first person to tell you that. He has, in fact, many times. Is anybody listening?
“There Yet”, you’re talking primarily about the direction the union is heading (and whether you like or dislike it). Your statement of “there are many, many of us out here who have lost all faith in their ability to lead this union” is a bit grandiose. The recent election would beg to differ. But the MF/U4S contention will go on for some time and isn’t the topic here. Though your opinions are as interesting and welcomed as anyone’s.
No, I’m speaking particularly of the current contract negotiations, and I strongly support the people already in place to get this deal done. They’re experienced and know what they’re doing. There’s no fear and no saber-rattling. This is how fair union contracts are accomplished. It’s a step-by-step process, and I would assume very specific and detailed.
Said negotiators will not change with the new board members, nor will Doug be removed from that committee. He maybe could quit, though I doubt he would – he’s a finisher. (Lord knows, I’d want to quit after the meager show of union support he’s received.) Again, to do so would be counter-productive and nobody in SAG wants that to happen. Whether any of us like or dislike them, they’re what we’ve got so we’d better support them.
And I apologize if I was a bit harsh in my earlier comments. I didn’t mean to say that everyone who is unhappy with the current state of SAG affairs is a whining pussy (just the uninformed blowhards who bitch about things without having a better plan themselves).
Can’t the members of SAG demand a vote now? How much longer can this be dragged out for until SAG’s member’s say enough is enough and stand up and start making demands of their union and it’s leadership?
The union works for it’s members. It’s time the members took action…
Ace strikes me as someone who hasn’t worked since he appeared as an extra in the GHANDI funeral scene.
LP !!!
you still around?
i thought you were out being a groupie on the PGA TOUR.
glad to see you haven’t lost your touch with the extra bashing.
hugs !
harry
Let’s get serious, kids (hi Ace!):
They are not sending out the ballots for strike authorization because their own internal audits likely tell them it wouldn’t be authorized (despite the tough rhetoric on this posting board). If it is not authorized then, more than the huge embarassment to SAG, the whole game would truly be up and SAG members would have to live with an outdated contract that gives them no bumps and no new jurisdictions. Not to mention the chill such a strategy would bring to the industry as a whole.
There are those hardliners who think this is a good thing and they may have a point. It could be part of a longterm strategy to really nail the next negotiation. But that puts a lot of pressure on a negotiation in a future, and very unpredictable time. And, as we have seen (witness these message boards), we have shown little dexterity in the craft of longterm strategic thinking.
“Ace” works almost every day, LP. Almost every day…
Gotrek, what is SAG losing by being patient and not forcing a labor action? We may not be “enjoying” the proposed 3.5% wage increases, but it doesn’t amount to much. Do any of us members know how to negotiate a multi-million dollar labor contract with multi-millionaire lawyers and company execs? No. Doug Allen does. He’s dealing with a lack of support from the membership as well as some unforseen circumstances. For instance, is it Doug Allen’s fault that AFTRA stabbed us in the back and split off joint negotiations? No – he just has to deal with that huge setback. And he’s not just throwing in the towel and saying “we’re screwed”, as so many members have stated. He knows how to handle this. Let him.
We all get to question what’s going on and I agree that it’s frustrating to be kept in the dark for the most part, but they’re telling us as much as they can without tipping their hand.
I realize that I sound like Doug’s water-bearer from all of this. But the truth is I’ve never met him personally. I only know what I’ve read and heard from him (in meetings). I respect what he’s trying to do and the uphill battle he faces. With the SAG membership doubting him, that battle so much more difficult.
Remember, the only faction that’s publicly saying the negotiations have completely stopped is the AMPTP. And they are… yeah, the opposition. It’s all tactics and bluster.
SAG members, listen to your own team – they have no reason to lie to you.
“Do you know how to negotiate a union contract? No.”
What is there to negotiate, oh wise one, “ace” (joker more appropriate).
You tell me, what’s left? MF LOST the election. Hello? Hello? Is this thing working?
You have two options: Strike. Sign.
And I love “you pussies” – it’s hysterical! Yeah, that’s us – pussies! – not Doug Allan and Alan Rosenberg and you – “ace” – who either have a feeling deep, deep in their sacks that they have fucked this thing up, and whatever good they MAY have at one time made out of this bullshit contract, is long gone, or, are IN DENIAL about the fact that they GOT nothing.
It’s one or the other ace.
“Negotiations” replaced by the equivalent of secret meetings, immediately refuted by the people they were to have met. Secretly. What is this – the fucking CIA? Get something done you clodheads!
There’s a “process” for kicking you in the ass, ace, and it won’t take six fucking months.
“ace” is David Jolliffe, recently deposed first chair negotiator on the negotiating committee. He’s lying about never having met Doug Allan, then he says he’s heard him in meetings. He’s met Doug Allan more times than you can count. Jolliffe’s ouster was one of the truly clear results of the election. The membership wants Jolliffe out. But, because the contract is still being negotiated, by SAG rules, he stays where he is. For now. Once the contract is signed, he’s gone. So Dave is “short” as the ‘Nam grunts used to say. And he’s a little hysterical, because arguing about SAG is his whole life. He doesn’t really work as an actor. As to “I work every day,” I refer you to his IMDB page. He works every day, yes, but, for free, and for SAG. He is furious he was rejected by the electorate, he is hunkered down like a cockroach after armageddon regarding the contract, he bleeds membership first, he has many many enemies in the union wars that have consumed his life, and he knows, once he’s out, he’s probably out for good. I think the membership is deeply, deeply tired of David Jolliffe, his rhetoric, his arrogance, his I know better than you-ness, his stubbornness, and he is in a rather volatile state of mind right now. Furious, and likely to snap. His first post as “ace” above tells you all you need to know. He sees the writing on the wall – he’s gone, the victory over the AMPTP that would have burnished his legacy as a crack union negotiator, is gone. It’s all unfortunate, because he’s arguing for kicking ass and taking names, which is fine by me, but, in a democracy, however moronic, disinterested and frustrating it’s members may be, there is no room for a bully like David Jolliffe. Bye Dave.
What’s interesting is that WGA, DGA and AFTRA made their deals, whether good or bad, but SAG has to create such drama and drag this thing out. The IATSE and non-union crew have had to watch their bank accounts dry up, waiting for this bunch to get it together. So much posturing done at the beginning by Doug and Alan, and now where are you? The same effing place as when you started, and the rest of us not working….Man up, people, or request an extension for another year, so people can work and they can get their shit together.
I want a fair cut of the upcoming DVD’s and other electronic media streams of the five old series I had leads in…A couple of them are already out there…and the 300+ guest star roles. Also, I do not want to see my image – or any other SAG member’s – used down the line without permission or compensation in commercials and/or whatever the suits cobble together for streaming videos on the internet. Wake up negotiators! This is serious business! THIS IS IT!
Pretty simple: STRIKE!
All the episodic productions are fully committed. From my vantage point on the agent’s desk, film production is pretty healthy right now as well.
The way to get them (AMPTP) to play ball is through force. Straight up punch ‘em in the gut with as little telegraphing as possible. Knock the air out of them and the floor from beneath them.
Chaos and delays costing them huge sums of money will get them back to the table right fast I reckon.
I’m an agent. I still work for actors.
ALONG WITH GOTREK AND LP, “STILL CONFUSED” IS ANOTHER NON-S.A.G. TERMITE. (“TERMITE” IS A TECHNICAL TERM, NOT INTENDED AS A SLUR.) LET’S LOOK AT ONE OF HIS LATEST EFFORTS. (I THINK “HE” WRITES LIKE A HE.) HE WRITES:
“They [S.A.G.] are not sending out the ballots for strike authorization because their own internal audits likely tell them it wouldn’t be authorized.”
WHAT INTERNAL AUDITS? HOW WOULD S.A.G. CONDUCT SUCH INTERNAL AUDITS? HAS S.A.G. HIRED A POLLING COMPANY? NOBODY I KNOW HAS BEEN POLLED.
YOUR “INTERNAL AUDIT” MUST BE SO SECRET THAT THE MEMBERS WHO ARE BEING POLLED FOR THE “AUDIT” DON’T EVEN SUSPECT THEY’RE BEING POLLED.
AND YOUR S.A.G. MOLE MUST BE UNDER SUCH DEEP COVER THAT HE/SHE HAS ACCESS TO THE “INTERNAL AUDITS” AND CAN SMUGGLE THE RESULTS OUT TO “STILL CONFUSED.”
87% OF S.A.G. VOTERS REJECTED THE AMPTP’S OFFER. BUT THAT WAS A PUBLICLY CONDUCTED AND PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED SURVEY, NOT AN “INTERNAL AUDIT.
THE NEXT PARAGRAPH BY “STILL CONFUSED” SHOWS CONCLUSIVELY THAT HE HAS CHOSEN AN APT PSEUDO-NAME:
“If it [A STRIKE] is not authorized then, more than the huge embarassment to SAG, the whole game would truly be up and SAG members would have to live with an outdated contract that gives them no bumps and no new jurisdictions. Not to mention the chill such a strategy would bring to the industry as a whole.”
I’VE READ THAT PARAGRAPH THREE TIMES AND I THINK IT’S STILL CONFUSING. “STILL CONFUSED” MAKES SARAH PALIN LOOK LIKE A MODEL OF COHERENCE.
“There are those hardliners who think this is a good thing and they may have a point.”
TERMITES NEVER CONCEDE THAT S.A.G. LOYALISTS “MAY HAVE A POINT” UNLESS THE TERMITES THINK THEY CAN USE THE CONCESSION TO DEMOLISH WHAT THE TERMITES SET UP AS “A [PURELY HYPOTHETICAL] LONGTERM STRATEGY” OF THE TERMITES’ OWN DEVISING.
“It could be part of a longterm strategy to really nail the next negotiation.”
BUT WAIT, IF THE TERMITES HAVE THEIR WAY, AND IF THEIR PREDICTIONS COME TRUE, DOUG ALLEN AND ALAN ROSENBERG WON’T EVEN BE AROUND FOR THE NEXT NEGOTIATION.
WOULDN’T IT BE IN S.A.G. LEADERSHIP’S BEST INTERESTS TO “REALLY NAIL” THE PRESENT NEGOTIATION?
“But that puts a lot of pressure on a negotiation in a future, and very unpredictable time. And, as we have seen (witness these message boards), we have shown little dexterity in the craft of longterm strategic thinking.”
WITNESS THESE MESSAGE BOARDS, INDEED. AND BE SURE TO CHECK OUT THE PREVIOUS BOARD
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/amptp-rejects-todays-sag-overture/
IT CONTAINS A REAL GEM BY “STILL CONFUSED.” I THINK IT’S #13. IT’S A PRICELESS RESPONSE TO (I THINK) #11 BY “AN OBSERVER.”
BUT I WOULDN’T BOTHER WITH ANY OF HIS OTHER POSTINGS. EVEN IF YOU AGREE WITH “STILL CONFUSED,” HIS LAZY TWADDLE ISN’T WORTH YOUR TIME. HE IS ONE SLOTHFUL, SELF-SATISFIED TERMITE.
DAVE CLENNON, INDUSTRIOUS DUNG BEETLE
To Dave Clennon…I admire your work and have for a long time. As for the barbs you directed toward myself and others, I can answer them only with the facts for myself in particular. I am among the top 5% of earners in the guild for many years now. I HAVE given my time in the Guild’s interests over the years. I was NOT particularly a supporter of they way Richard Masur did things. I DO have suggestions and ways out of this mess – as do others I know. We’ve just given up trying to voice them and prefer to talk with our votes. Why? Because there are simply too many “agendas” going on, too much brandishing of “arms” and militant talk and fingerpointing at the other guy. There is not enough sense of the big picture and the fact that we as actors, in addition to our negotiation concerns, are also members of the film community as a whole. A community that has already been through a strike this year. A community that is faced with a very difficult national economy in general. And Dave…if one doesn’t have have their own house in order, how do you expect to get anyone’s respect? You call me a termite, Ace calls us “pussies”, yet the Day to Day administration of the Guild is in bad need of an overhaul. Doing business with the guild as a producer is an exercise in frustration for many filmakers. And so you think you can just stamp your feet and get THEIR cooperation? Bottom line: I love this business and I love my union but what I have seen over the last several years has made me even more aware that our union is increasingly NOT strong, NOT democratic and LOSING economic power as a result of the WAY they do business. That has to stop before there is no more SAG and that worries me most of all.
Are We There Yet
Top 5% of wage earners? Good for you. I do think the comment is otherwise as useless in it’s way as Dave Clennon, who is clearly beginning to lose his mind, self-described dung beetle that he is. (there’s a button to take the caps off Dave)
I suspect, Are We There, that you are one of the incoming UFS’ers. Good luck. You are on the verge of being outflanked by the MF’s you feel have, in your sober, thoughtful, yet toothless words, brought us to the cusp of the destruction of SAG.
My guess is they have, conservatively, a 50/50 shot at getting that strike authorization, and using it. Because, if SAG wants a fair contract, strike is the only option. It has always been the only option. Getting a fair deal when the producers have rammed a non-union new media contract down the other guilds all too willing throats, means one thing: strike, of course, was always the only option.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, isn’t UFS proposing the destruction of SAG? I’m pretty sure they are looking to merge with AFTRA, then call the resulting entity whatever they vote the new name to be. And, whatever it is, there is one thing it will not be: SAG. It will be a union of actors, broadcasters, recording artists, various and sundry others, but it won’t be the Screen Actors Guild. The Screen Actors Guild will have died in it’s 75th year, thanks to UFS.
So, you might want to reconsider who exactly, is fighting to save SAG here. It most certainly is not UFS.
Dave is right about my moniker being apt. I am confused and remain so. I’m sorry I don’t match your rhetorical rage, Dave, but congrats to you for the energetic and creative name calling.
Look…everyone who doesn’t want to go into some grand guignol battle over this is gonna be called either a “pussy” or a “termite” or whatever else. It’s fine because your version of fight to the death of the industry isn’t going to happen anyway.
Yes Dave, my moniker is apt because I am confused by all this. And yes, feel free to call me a “termite” and a “pussy” and all the rest because…who really cares? This is a posting board to try and sort through the confusing issues in this mess of a union negotiation.
But like some other people on the board I love this business, I love movies and TV, I love working, and I love the collaboration with all the members of all the guilds and unions (even the suits). I didn’t get into the business to become just a union member. If this makes me a termite…well, okay. But I hope everyone in SAG became a member because they’ve loved the art and had something to say with it first and foremost.
And God forbid that longterm negotiation strategies are just a hypothetical in my own mind. Maybe you’re right, maybe they are. And more is the pity if they are. It would be nice to think there was more to the SAG negotiation than just posturing and politicking. But maybe there isn’t.
Franklin..nope, not incoming UFS, even if I support them over MF. I don’t agree with everything you said but I would think we can disagree on some points and still have one thing in common: a mutual desire to see SAG survive as a viable entity. I look forward to saying “No” with my vote – in the hopes of getting our union out of this quagmire that we currently find ourselves in.