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Statement by the AMPTP:
The AMPTP met this afternoon with federal mediator Juan Carlos Gonzalez. During the meeting AMPTP presented details of the AMPTP’s Final Offer to SAG, along with background information on the major labor agreements that AMPTP has reached this year with WGA, DGA and AFTRA, which served as the basis for our Final Offer to SAG. The federal mediator indicated that he will advise the parties as to the next step in the process.
- SAG Leaders Meet With Federal Mediator (Who Failed To Referee WGA vs AMPTP)
- AMPTP Reluctantly Agrees To Mediator; “As Soon As Possible” Responds SAG
- AMPTP To “Probably” Agree To Mediator
- SAG NATL BOARD VOTES TO REQUEST FEDERAL MEDIATOR
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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What is being lost, I think, in this whole thing is that SAG’s needs are different than DGA or WGA – not so much AFTRA.
SAG will have 10 people working on a movie which lowers the amount each person can actually get in residuals whereas the DGA or WGA will have no more than 3 (only the WGA).
background information? isn’t this the same guy that was mediating for the writers when the directors struck their deal? does he have alzheimer’s??
and i can advise the next step – it’s called a compromise, people…
at least this is going on in a good economic climate
what a suprise the outcome was (ha). where do we go from here? sag won’t take the final offer and probably can’t get a strike authorization. both sides won’t budge. there’s gonna be lots of studio equipment for sale and lots of vendors shutting down. happy holidays.
Well, “hungry transpo”, you get to eat lunch first on set so you’ll do better than most. You have no idea what will “probably” happen. There’s no “outcome” yet, either, so keep your stuffed mouth shut until you know what you’re talking about. Nice to know you’re not negotiating anything for either side. But don’t despair, oh hungry one – pretty soon you’ll have more to eat than just lunch. (Your words, fool.)
Most teamsters I’ve talked to are completely in support of SAG and our contract issues. What’s your problem? Been napping in the truck instead of actually discovering reality by talking to people and learning something before shooting your ignorant mouth off?
(Don’t forget to take your plate to the garbage and push your chair in after breakfast and lunch. Others have to eat at the same table after you. Unfortunately.)
I have to question the whole “final offer” concept in and of itself. The AMPTP throws this phrase around so brazenly, but can it really be said to be acceptable during a negotiation? Isn’t the very essence of negotiation a serious of steps until agreement is reached? The AMPTP presented this (“final”) offer, and it was refused. That places the ball in the AMPTP’s court to try again. Refusal to do so isn’t conducive to negotiation. It’s getting old, too. The AMPTP has been doing this for at least a year now, officially. Unacceptable.
go ahead actors… burn the town.
kill the industry… the economy can probably take it.
all in vain.
take a hint from the music industry.
thanks for putting me out of work… again.
Hungry Transpo – SAG members are more than willing to authorize a strike. Before that happens, the guild is giving the AMPTP one last chance to come to their senses. If they don’t, SAG will do what it’s gotta do.
Uh oh. They capitalized “Final Offer.” Twice. They must be serious this time.
“The federal mediator indicated that he will advise the parties as to the next step in the process.” – Let’s give it a chance. There’s nothing else in the pipeline to get things moving forward.
Thanks for the lack of name calling like your brothers, transpo. That gets old.
Agreed there’s a big problem, here. No doubt, AMPTP won’t budge right now. Additionally, SAG is backed into a corner now — having thrown away absolutely crucial negotiation sticking points like DVD residuals, for nothing rather than wait for a time where the concessions might have been useful tools. Not only were moves like that insane, IMHO, (i.e., negotiating against ourselves without quid pro quo), but they leave us inflexible as hell right now.
Food for thought, however. Granted, this strike (if it comes to that) doesn’t really require participation of outside unions to bring the town to a screeching halt. But consider that any strike of ours will be extra-unbearable due to writer’s having “gone it alone” without doing something like working without a contract to coincide their negotiations with ours.
Consider that pre-writers strike, producers literally banked on the fact that trucks would drive right through the lines and production would continue off of script-surplus. And they did.
Had ANYBODY taken teamsters empty threats to not cross writer’s lines seriously, which teamsters have trained them not to do by repeatedly “crying wolfe”: 1) It may never have come to a strike for writers; and 2) If it did, the strike would have been much shorter since you guys are a rare group who can make sure that strike = near total work stoppage = nobody makes a buck, producers included, until a new contract is hammered out.
I hope that the next truck considering crossing a line (e.g., SAG commercial strike) realizes that over that year, such actions might lead to less income for divers by allowing the strike to prolong by allowing hindered production to continue rather than forcing parties to the table.
Yeah, I’m well aware that drawing the line in the sand (especially when it’s not your union pulling the trigger) is an immediate bitch with extreme short term reprecussions … but for me, it’s a hell of easier choice than going down a quick road to us, for instance, losing residuals forever — one major step at a time.
Happy holidays indeed. But we (SAG) already made some EXTREME concessions, like allowing producers to reneg on their promise to renegotiate DVD residuals.
Strikes during any time, let alone potentially during holidays, are deadly — but getting snookered AGAIN by bullshit promises to renegotiate the majority of new-media residuals “later” is basic suicide for the long term survival of our union.
I try to understand your position, as I’m sure others do. In turn, I hope you try to understand ours, despite our screwups that have assisted us all being in the god-awful position we’re in now.
(not directed at ‘hungry transpo’):
Here’s the style of crew posts, that for the life of me, I cannot understand where they think it will be influential. (And whoever thinks this is really stretching it that far, clearly has not been following the posts in regard to potential SAG strike
Dear SAG:
I couldn’t care less whether you eat or not, therefore, you should care whether I eat or not. By not accepting a rollback and making less money (which is EXACTLY what the current proposal is as we quickly migrate into “new media” as the primary content delivery mechanism), you’re just greedy bastards. How dare you think you should want to make sure that the average SAG union card holder makes 1/4 of what the average union member of my profession does, instead of accepting a rollback so *I* can work?!
It’s YOUR fault producers won’t even negotiate, and it’s YOUR fault that producers are not making movies you gladly work on when they do, because you’re just all greedy and overpaid princesses. The average SAG member needs to cut their daily value meal a day they buy (with 1/4 the poverty level average income) in half, and let me get back to work so that I can feed me. How dare you put feeding your family above me feeding mine? Rather than drinking milk year after year after year (residuals), you need to go in the back yard and turn the cow into hamburger so that I can focus on this months’ bills. I don’t understand why you don’t want to eat a meal now (current offer) and starve for the rest of your careers. What the fuck does that have to do with me feeding me. Damn, man, we don’t give a rat’s ass about your family, that’s why you need to make sure ours doesn’t suffer! You’re a bunch of conceited assholes, ask me about me for a change, fuckers!
with venom,
anonymous crew member who wants to make sure the already troublesome rift between cast and crew gets even bigger
To Ace- sorry you found my comment so offensive. I was merely stating the dilemna I feel we’re facing. To resort to the old teamster jokes about eating and sleeping in the truck is insulting to 399. Just for your information I don’t sleep in a truck because I’m a coordinator not a driver. I do support sag in their contract i’m just frustrated that the strike authorization didn’t happen earlier in the process. Negotiating without a strike authorization is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Good Luck and Peace.
Hey “Ace”, Thanks for letting your true feeling out about how you feel about us Teamsters – we love you too. I know that you are upset when they make the BG players eat in a separate area and with a different menu too. So you think all we do is sit around and eat and should keep our “stuffed mouths shut” and you want our solidarity too while your negs continue to play this hopless waiting game. Most Teamsters you know support the actors? Give me a break!
Dear anonymous crew:
Lemme see if I understand correctly.
TV is in nearly full production, some films are as well. SAG gladly shows up at everything they choose to produce and demonstrates a daily willingness to negotiate (“virtual strike” my ass).
We make concessions on incredibly serious matters like DVD without getting any concession whatsoever in return, yet producers steadfastedly refuse to make any concessions. They make one offer and say “different unions with different concerns gagged down this offer. So either you choke it down too, or we dare you to strike.” And it’s actors putting you out of work, not producers, “again?”
Good Lord.
What. You -seriously- think if they succeed in breaking us, and giving us what will go down the road to eventually eliminating half our income (residuals) that you’re not next?
You -seriously- think after breaking the biggest actors union, that rather than make a joined-from consolidated attack on union crew next (despite almost explicitly making statements that they’d like unions to disappear and are looking for the right time to break them — which apparently is now, that they’re just going to chill? They’ll say, “thank god we get a rest. Good thing that crew accounts for such a small amount of our budget. DAMN we love paying crew overtime … it’s so inexpensive. We’d MUCH rather pay union crew current wages then make a run for keeping half that money for ourselves.”
Good Lord.
They break us, you’re their #1 next target.
And god forbid they offer you some bullshit rollback of up to half your income, and force you to consider striking, if any SAG actor post anytyhing nasty about crew (saying nothing about producer’s) and wrongly and solely blaming crew for a bunch of bullshit or a slowdown …
I’m going to truly be embarrassed to be in the same union with a bunch of short-sighted thoughtless morons.
I get it. You’re one of those small number of(?) crew members who uses his four hours between setups in his department to make snide comments about actors that you’d never make to their face, yet, apparently you believe that actors are also pretty damn deaf and cannot hear people talking loudly 50 feet away …
… and yet you don’t think producers will come after your food next. Because actors are replaceable, and you’re not.
Great. Clearly, you’ve thought all this carefully through, and I hope that works out for you. Personally, I have my doubts about your strategy of attacking sister unions while producers each day come closer to a global trillion dollar unified front on the opposite side of the negotiating table.
crew: You compared what happened in the music industry to this situation, but you need to understand that musicians own their work. Actors, writers, etc don’t exactly. Whereas musicians receive royalties for their work, filmed entertainment involves a complex series of compromises and make-wholes.
Basically the entire issue with residuals is that, if they aren’t secured in New Media, they won’t exist anymore once everything has moved to a New Media platform (which is closer than you think). This is unacceptable, because residuals are the appropriate make-whole in exchange for what would’ve otherwise been royalties if we were musicians and were operating under that specific copyright management arrangement.
Sterling Wolfe – The real cause of those hot dry Santa Ana winds!
No, “TranspoBill”, I’m loving Teamsters – for the most part. But you know there are those among you who are unkempt, inconsiderate, bad mannered, lazy, etc (just as in all walks of life). I was making a distinction with my comments to your transpo brother “hungry transpo” – the kind of Teamster who can’t (or won’t) see what’s right before his (her?) eyes. And making those kinds of comments shows what kind of union member s/he is. I only want “stuffed mouths shut” when people don’t know what they’re talking about, or are just being assholes for sake of it.
There are two general kinds of Teamsters in the film industry: those who give a shit, and those who don’t. Hungry Transpo’s comment makes all of the Teamsters look ignorant. As I said, I know which side most of you are on.
Fellow actors, don’t buy into the idea that crew is against us – that’s just bitter, uninformed babble from people who don’t know whom to blame for the current situation. SAG is very strong and is showing a membership-wide concerted effort to right this wrong.
There will always be a rare few who have a bone to pick with actors and who feel a need to blast us in public (well, online anyway). But their aimless rants are without base. They just spew vitriol hoping to scare actors into believing that we’re doomed if we strike.
They don’t want a strike? We don’t want a strike either (by the way). But we’ll do what we have to do and everyone else in the industry will understand why we did it – why we had to do it – and they’ll be grateful the next time their unions’ contract comes up for renewal, because SAG continued to set the standard for labor unions in the entertainment field.
/sarcasm
Thanks, “transpo”
/not sarcasm
Hope you and your family have a happy and safe halloween too, brother.
gee, not much support from my brothers in local 44. or at least the ones that i know. NO SUPPORT!
The films that are in production right now are most likely independent films outside the AMPTP production and distribution channels. SAG made a guarantee that those films would be produced. On the TV side, episodes of most TV shows take about a week to film so they can be produced.
The reason why the AMPTP called a lockout of most movie production is because you need insurance to film everything and insurance is only covered for independent film productions because SAG said they wouldn’t be harmed in event of a strike as well as most TV episodes which insurance is willing to cover.
Let’s say that the federal mediator doesn’t work due to some action by Nick Counter. If that were to be the case, the very action of SAG sending out strike authorization ballots to its members could lead to a Lockout of SAG by AMPTP because SAG isn’t working with a contract. This would be a tool by the AMPTP to try to get the rank and file to agree to that “final offer.” This case could end up in arbitration with a three person panel hammering out the new SAG contract and the AMPTP will not like it one bit.
Transpo…I wouldn’t know if you’re a good teamster or a bad one. But as far as I’m concerned, Ace and people like him are continually out of line in HOW they approach these issues. They spend so much time on these blogs that one wonders if they have a life outside of here. Trust me, they will rip me for saying that. They somehow feel that by insulting those who don’t agree with them, that it makes them feel like big tough guys, who are somehow vindicated by their feelings. To men they look like fools. They don’t speak for many of the working actors. They speak for some but as to how many really remains to be seen. Little by little, many actors are seeking to rectify this disaster with level heads and with our votes. Ace and others like him are welcome to their opinion but many actors are just not interested in spewing venom. They are listening and making themselves known in action. They understand that actors alone cannot make this business go and that while we may want a fair shake, we have no desire to blow this business to pieces in the process. The rabid dogs will soon be upon me for saying this because it is their way. So be it. I’m not afraid of them and I hope any decent working person in this industry will no longer be also. I often wonder if their argument is about the issues before us at all?
And “AWTY” leaves another rambling discourse. But since you brought me up…
You state that I and others “are continually out of line in HOW they approach these issues”. Don’t know what you mean. I’m simply defending SAG, our reputation, our membership and our board members from non-SAG mouthpieces who don’t know what they’re talking about – because they’re not in our union. I feel I’ve been very careful to stick to the issues and to bring to light others’ mistakes, mud slinging and lies. To which you’re contributing. You, on the other hand, tell stories of how you think I am – how any of us are – by name-calling and cheap shots. Still, you call yourself a better person because you are “seeking to rectify this disaster with level heads and with our votes”? And within that statement lies a backhanded slur that the rest of us actors who don’t agree with you are not level-headed?
You see what I’m getting at?
“They spend so much time on these blogs that one wonders if they have a life outside of here.” See? That’s called a cheap shot.
“To men they look like fools.” Huh?
“They don’t speak for many of the working actors.” Yes, in fact we do, and that’s not just an opinion. The polls and membership support justifies that fact. Just you making that statement doesn’t make it true.
Yes, the support I speak of is from only the members who voted in the poll, who go to the membership meetings and the national board members. But those are the exact people to whom all of this matters the most – the members who take the initiative to make their voices heard. And heard they were. Those are the members that count, and who will vote again if a strike authorization is offered.
“Ace and others like him are welcome to their opinion but many actors are just not interested in spewing venom.” Spewing venom? At whom? I think I’m pretty positive unless SAG is being bashed, and only then do I call out the louts who badmouth SAG for no apparent reason other than they don’t want a strike and are blaming SAG for it.
“The rabid dogs will soon be upon me for saying this because it is their way.” Again, see what I mean?
“I’m not afraid of them and I hope any decent working person in this industry will no longer be also.” Afraid of whom? And for what?
See what I mean, AWTY? You can’t, on one hand, call me out for calling names and “spewing venom”, and then in the same rant do exactly the same thing. Makes your statements seem untruthful; false; transparent…
“I often wonder if their argument is about the issues before us at all?” [sic] If you don’t understand why I post these comments then you’re completely missing the point.
I’m pro-SAG. Get it?
I’m a team player. You know what that means? To support your own team? In public?
I defend my union when people throw mud at it. Can you understand that?
I’ve made myself very clear about all of that while I “spend so much time on these blogs”. And yeah, it’s been a pretty slow week. For you too, apparently, because… here you are. Again.
Hey “hungry transpo”…
Ditto on the frustrations, even though I truly believe a strike should/could not have been effectively called before now (too many other issues on SAG’s plate). And let’s all remember – it may not have to happen anyway. Let’s also hope that these “discussions” will have been in vain.
I appreciate your apology, and I offer mine as well. In a saner time I think we’ll all sit around a campfire together, drink cold beers, make s’mores and sing Kumbaya (and a Teamster will drive us there – and we’ll thank you for it).
Hello Ace…True to form, I see. I also struck a nerve apparently…something that’s not hard to do in your case. How interesting that you follow up your passionate attempt to once again blame “the other guy” with a “peace offering” to Transpo. Anyone with any sense has your number, Ace…you’re so obvious.
Ace:
I was hearin’ ya on previous threads, but on this one I gotta temporarily reqlinquish my silent ace support card.
Teamsters including transpo don’t on the whole support us (despite occasional public empty rhetoric by leadership that the rank & file have nothing to do with). I, for one, cannot think of a reason they should support us to improve the dollars in their pocket. And unless some brilliant group or person among SAG comes up some reason that they should, that supports their bottom line, some reason they believe in, we’re going to be screwed when we don’t have the power to shut things down on our own. We’re going to be without a whole bunch of power in all categories where production can continue if production can continue in any way shape or form by replacing us with non-union.
Proof: Our commercials changed the landscape permanently in a nasty way for us, that doesn’t necessarily hurt teamsters bottom line.
When we, like idiots (IMHO — and I was one of those idiots) put up picket lines during the commercials strike, two things happened:
a) we trained commercial producers to simply shoot elsewhere where we could not organize effectively, and apparently, given all that are happier shooting out of L.A. now, they liked what they saw and many never really came back.
b) a vast majority of trucks drove through lines, supplying sets with equipment so they could keep shooting with non-union and our backstabbing SAG-scabs. What we have left in the aftermath of having trained commercials that they could shoot okay spots with non-union and-or back-stabbing SAG-scab scum is HUGE products shooting non-union that would have been inconceivable a decade ago.
Anecdotally, on a recent shoot, I overhead about six crew brainstorming how the federal government should “force SAG to accept the contract so there would still be work.” Yeah, yeah, I know. How misinformed that is on how America works is not my point. My point is that this is not exactly a sign of union-crew support for actor labor disputes.
So Ace, if Vegas sets up a bet of whether an anonymous poll of teamsters/union crew support us — trust me, brother, betting “yes” would be equivalent to burning your money.
—
It would be great if Sister Union’s had some bottom line reason to support each other. But hell, man, we cannot even get actor unions to support each other, so personally I’m not holding my breath until the day sister unions can or will unite our fronts to negotiate multi-billion dollar global businesses who already have joined forces across each other.
I’ll be damned how much stronger we’d be if we could come up with a reason to support us that resonates with them. But right now, the best that I can do is come up with some “paper theory” that might sound great to us, but doesn’t mean shit when it comes to them feeding their families better if they support us.
best,
sterling
P.S. Ace, you know damn well that BG eats after crew because until crew sets up the shot by returning to set, nobody’s shooting. Bet your ass that if producers thought they could get away with forcing principals to eat after crew too that wouldn’t cause a mutiny and would save producer’s money, that principals would be held back from the food line to allow crew to get back to set quicker as well. Unless hell freeze’s over, those who pay grade deems them most important will eat first, and those who’s check deems them least important will eat last. This is the way nature’s worked for the last billion years or so, so I wouldn’t expect change any time soon. If you have any bitterness about this, perhaps Charles Darwin is a more appropriate target, not crew.