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So SAG leaders continue conducting their education campaign about the Strike Authorization Vote despite the ballot delay and upcoming January 12th-13th National Board meeting which could deep-six the idea. The following is the first in what is described to me as a series of responses to members’ questions at recent Town Hall meetings. Its major point is SAG executive Director Doug Allen saying a strike “will not shut down the Industry”. Then what’s the point of a strike?
Know the facts!
Will a SAG TV/Theatrical strike “shut down the Industry?” NO WAY!
If the SAG National Board is authorized to call a strike, we all hope a strike will not be necessary. But, if the National Board decides to call one, it will not “shut down the Industry.” Why not? Because the National Board’s decision would have no effect on work done under the Guild’s other contracts.
In the event of a TV/Theatrical strike, work done under other SAG contracts would continue to be governed by those contracts, not the TV/Theatrical contracts. That means jobs in commercials, basic cable, video games and industrials would continue during a TV/Theatrical strike. Also, jobs would continue on more than 800 independent movie projects by producers not associated with AMPTP companies, and on more than 800 independent new media projects under SAG’s new media agreement.
A strike of our TV/Theatrical contracts would be a serious step we hope to avoid, but even if the working actors on SAG’s National Board were authorized and ultimately voted to call a strike, that decision would affect only work on primetime network shows, pay TV shows (e.g., HBO), and movies made, financed or distributed by AMPTP companies (e.g., Sony, Warner Bros., Disney, Twentieth Century Fox, Paramount, NBC Universal, etc.). Not “the entire industry.”
Also, actors on any shows signed to AFTRA before the effective date of such a strike would be required by their personal contract and AFTRA’s CBA to report to work on any AFTRA-covered projects in its jurisdiction (primarily dramatic network primetime and pay TV shows, and movies made for television or DVD.)
Please visit the SAG website at www.sag.org for up to the minute information and email your questions or comments to www.Contract2008@sag.org (this is an email address and not a live web link.)
Sincerely,
Doug Allen
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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First you say you’ll strike
and then you won’t,
you’re undecided now
What are you going to do?
A full six months have passed since the SAG contract expired and they are still running an “education campaign”? This is unbelievable and unbelievably selfish of this organization which, while making some kind of effort to get a better deal for its membership, is surely alienating every other effected group.
Now that it is clear to all that 75% is just too high a hurdle to clear, perhaps it is time to pursue another, more effective tactic, so that we can get back to work in a timely fashion.
At this point I don’t think that more “education” is going to change many minds; the lines are pretty well drawn by now. Strike or no strike, since June 30 there have been no more than a handful of studio originated features that have rolled. Perhaps that is squeezing the AMPTP, but it is beginning to put a serious hurt on the rest of us. We feel your pain; do you feel ours?
WGA had 100 days of actual labor stoppage to achieve whatever they got. SAG has now had half a year – to do what? Break off negotiations, have some elections, trade press releases with the producers, call for more negotiations with a mediator, think about a strike vote, have some meetings and some yelling matches, call off the strike vote. Now what?
Happy New Year; may it bring us fresh hope and the change we really need!
I don’t know what Doug’s intentions are/were in sending this out now, before the big meeting next month, but I’m not arguing with it either.
Well it’s been a pretty vicious list of comments re this memo. And it seems most of the critical comments come from “vote NO” people. And you “vote NO” people asked some questions. So let’s look at some reality for your answers.
I noticed that many of the posts (including that from Tom Ligon – no surprise) noted, “So what’s the point of a strike if we can’t shut the whole town down” (I paraphrase). And to each of you I offer (and reinforce Doug’s point in the memo) that a strike would harm the AMPTP only – the same body of moguls against whom we are fighting this contract fight.
SAG doesn’t want to “shut down the town” (never did); we want to threaten only the AMPTP enough to force them to offer us a fair contract. (SAG is not in a fight with the entire entertainment industry – we never were.) Virtually every other non-AMPTP production will continue, regardless of a strike. (This is the part about going in with a scalpel instead of a broadsword.) Doug is simply clarifying the fact that a strike, if it gets to that, will not “shut down the industry”. Nor should it. Realizing (and admitting) this clear and simple fact should nullify most, if not all of the negative comments on this topic so far.
And Tom, you wrote: “Membership First/Doug Allen’s plan is
AS SOON AS THEY GET ACTORS TO STRIKE SAG WORK
THEY INTEND TO PASS A SPECIAL “STRIKE RULE” THAT SAYS SAG ACTORS MAY NOT WORK ON NEW AFTRA PRODUCTIONS.” Is this true, Tom, or did you just pull that out of your ass? Did you mean it? Are you positive about that? Can you back that accusation up with any facts? Any facts at all…? ‘Cuz, you were shouting it in all caps like it’s the truth, and I think we should all make sure that if we’re to believe any one little thing from you, that you should be able to back up your bullshit with facts. Noting that you labeled Doug Allen as “Membership First/Doug Allen” shows your true agenda here. Still crying over the non-U4S ‘blowout’, are you? All of which denies credibility to your further rantings. Crawl back into your hole and let the non-partisan people work this out. This is no time or place for in-house politics.
The phrasing of the remaining negative comments, the message spin, the talking points… all right out of the AMPTP’s play book. Most of you “mystery posters” obviously have an axe to grind, and few, if any, of you are SAG members in the first place. Which makes your negative comments… biased for your own benefit in some way? Hmmm? Type all you want, spinners. For each of you posting here, there are twice as many SAG members posting truth and facts to counter your spin and bullshit.
Lame loser that masquerades as a high-paid negotiator…
I thought it was a joke……It’s not. He’s serious!
Doug Allen’s statement is the single stupidest statement I’ve ever heard from a Union official.
99% of employment contracts in Hollywood have a force majeur clause. If SAG strikes, every studio, agency, management firm, network, production company, etc will lay off large percentages of their contracted employees and kill their producer deals and the employers will not have to pay a cent in severance. A large part of the industry will be decimated.
Geez Ace – You would defend Allen and Rosenberg no matter what they say, wouldn’t you? How do you come to assume that most of the comments come from the “vote no” crowd? Seems that even the most staunch MF supporters are saying “huh?” or “WTF?” along with everyone else in the industry at Doug Allen’s bizarre email. I sure don’t see how this could help Doug make his case for a strike vote at all.
Awards season is just around the corner… I think SAG should add two new categories to their awards:
The “Please put the crap pipe down and/or stop drinking the kool-aid” award goes to: Doug Allen
Obviously, in a related category the next award is:
“Putting the idiot back in fucktard” award goes to: Alan Rosenberg and Doug Allen
Nice work gentlemen. We’ll be sure to think of you when we’re not working on commercials, industrials, and any of the 800 under a million dollar features.
Ace: Do you supporters of the Allens ever say anything other than than we are all shills of the AMPTP just for disagreeing with you? And what’s this: “there are twice as many SAG members posting truth and facts to counter your spin and bullshit.” Twice as many? Where are they? Certainly not on this particular thread. Seems to me the cream is finally starting to rise to the top and good sense is prevailing over insanity.
This is such a waste of time, Alan and Allen know that they do not have the votes, enough with the posturing already.
It all gets down to how the SAG Membership is going to vote. Alan and Doug should just bypass the Referendum and allow the SAG Membership to vote on the June 30 offer. If it’s as egregious as they say it is the Membership will vote it down. If they do indeed vote it down then the Studios will impose the Deal on SAG. Thus, a lock-out. There’s your strike with the onus being on Management.
Now, it seems that the vitriol and anger on this thread is a response to the lack of work now and in the future caused by a possible strike. Well, GET OVER IT! Strikes happen all the time in good economies and bad. From what I read SAG is justified in fighting for its future. It’s the collateral damage that’s feared. Just remember, if SAG gets a deal the Leadership is happy with NOW then all the other Industry Unions will win down the line.
Oh, and just an objective observation; Ligon is VERY angry and for whatever reason it seems VERY personal. For this reader it smacks of a political agenda which dilutes his message. Why does he keep bringing up Membership First? In my trying to keep up aren’t they the faction that lost the last election?
Well, Bill, no. I wouldn’t defend AR or DA “no matter what they say”. In this particular case, I offered that I’m not sure why Doug sent out this memo at this time (which might/could be construed as a criticism) but I did give him the benefit of the doubt.
I agree or disagree with any statement I feel I need to. On the other hand, you posting a comment like, “Seems that even the most staunch MF supporters are saying “huh?” or “WTF?” along with everyone else in the industry at Doug Allen’s bizarre email.” Who are these “staunch MF supporters”? Who are “everyone else in the industry” who are posting here? Only a few of the people who posted could be perceived as a SAG member with any pro or con about this memo, and even fewer are claiming to be any part of the industry at all. What I do see is a range of previously-unheard-of posters with a tone similar to what Matt Drudge invites and frequently sends Nikki’s way. What I do see is you trying to make something out of nothing.
Doug Allen’s statement was simple and straight-forward, and I’m sure was to counter the industry-wide criticism that a strike by SAG would “shut down the industry”. What the hell is anyone’s problem with that statement? It’s true, and it’s there in black and white. WTF?
But the naysayers haven’t had any red meat (contract negotiation news) for a couple of weeks, so they latch onto this update in a shallow effort to slight Doug Allen? And for what? Again I say, WTF? Desperate much?
As for the “shills” comment – I didn’t say that either. Truly, I want people to disagree with me. I want people to bring their best arguments into the conversation and convince me (or any of us) of their point of view. But there have been very few who have even made me think twice about their point(s) of view. Not because I don’t want to agree with them, but because they don’t make sense – for SAG or for the industry. Further, they’re not based on facts. Those “arguments” are usually from people who haven’t read the contract offer (too lazy), or are otherwise financially reliant on the current offer passing (actor/producers or other crew members, for instance).
But calling SAG’s leaders “stupid” or “prick” or “an idiot or a liar” or “egotistical” or anything at all doesn’t defend any point of view – it’s just cheap shots (and, I might add, shows a certain lack of dignity from the poster). For instance, spinning the (upcoming) strike authorization vote as a “strike vote” only shows ignorance or laziness for not reading the facts.
If you’re not a SAG member, why all the rhetoric and name-calling at someone who doesn’t matter to you and who has done you no wrong? If you’re not SAG (and therefore don’t get to vote) why are you people trying to make SAG’s leaders look bad? Obviously, again, because it suits your position for SAG to seem disenfranchised and weaken our position to authorize a strike. I don’t care if the AMPTP is paying you, or if Matt Drudge sent you here, or if you’re a struggling ancillary business relying on film production, or if you’re a crew member from a sister union… all I said was that people have made comments which are “biased for your own benefit in some way”. Could that be any clearer?
You non-SAG/industry members get to post here because it’s a public posting forum, but whom are you posting to – SAG members who will get to vote? That is absolutely the AMPTP’s current smear and mis-information campaign, and SAG is doing it’s damnedest to counter that with facts. As will I. Whether you’re a company shill or not, you’ll be looked at as such not because I may disagree with you, and not because your arguments and comments are contrary to SAG’s benefit, but because your arguments are the same arguments that the AMPTP is spewing out – and they’re false arguments. In the end, SAG will vote (theoretically) to it’s own benefit – not to the AMPTP’s, or yours. In the meantime, until I’m shown an alternative (better) plan, I’m standing in solidarity with my union and their recommendations.
AWTY, you’re again trying to goad me into a fight with you by attacking me personally. Not going there, as you have nothing to argue with. “No matter how you dress a pig, Doug, it’s still a pig.” is all you’ve got? Just chiming in with bland criticism and no offer of something better? Typical. You sometimes seem like an intelligent person – I’m disappointed in you here. Any business person who was critical of any current business plan without offering a (better) solution would be kicked out of the boardroom. And as you well know, there are many SAG members besides myself who are diligent about posting positive comments and facts about the current negotiations. Anyone with a lick of sense can read through Nikki’s topic subjects and find them by the truckload. Whether or not they’ll post here remains to be seen.
Because people are on vacation! It’s the holidays! Go be happy!
As a member of the WGA, SAG and AFTRA this is shocking news from my Captain Mr. Allen. We must all stand together with our union leaders up until a point of no return. We are slowly reaching that point. No? Yes? I wish it was that simple. This is fast becoming a bad infomercial. My fellow SAG members we all need to grow up and face the fact that now is not the time to air our dirty laundry in public view. Let’s just get on with it and stop these ridiculous re-education campaign announcements. No more videos on SAG TV! No more SAG hates the AMPTP!
Flip a coin for Christ sake and let the begin the games.
I’ve simply learned that you can’t reason with the unreasonable, Ace. It also seems that when you get a little of your own “goading and attacking” medicine, you cry foul. My comments stand. Not only that, I am happy to see the increasing resistance to this insanity from all quarters of the business. Anyone who has something at stake here has a right to speak their opinion. I have not met one single person who is paid by the producers to write on these blogs. And you have not conclusively been able to point to one. You are, like MF and the Allens, simply trying to control the flow of information to suit your own agenda. Are you honestly telling me that is only your side of the fence that is on vacation right now? And you wonder why I won’t discuss issues with you in depth.
As a non-thespian reading all these bitter threads, it reminds me of a quote from screenwriter Robert Towne when he was asked why one of his scripts had so much vulgar cursing among the characters:
“This is what people do when they’re powerless to act.
They bitch.”
As someone on the fence regarding the strike vote let me just say that the SAG negotiators are officially out of their minds.
This is the equivalent of John McCain suspending his campaign.
And it will turn out just as well.
Seriously, what are these guys thinking?
Let me re-write his letter for you :
Dear Hopeful Dumbasses,
The Strike will not “exactly” end Hollywood like those Studio People say they will. Please realize that you’ll still have a shot to audition for one of those deferred paying USC Short Films.
If we could get a video game company to go SAG for voice over, you can audition for that. But after PIXAR and ILM bailed on us, we’re not holding our breathe.
Oh, and if you really want to pay off your rent. Try auditioning for a Applebee’s Training Video that will be shot in Nebraska. Actually they aren’t going SAG either, they are AFTRA….mothafuckers.
Listen dudes, I didn’t go to college which means I know everything about how this will shake up. The strike would only really mean that all the unions would be shut down. Also, it might mean that your agent might get fired and your manager might retire to pursue their dream of working at an Applebees.
Listen we are really getting a lot of those youtube video makers to go through 30 hours worth of paperwork so they can have you put a Mento in a Coke bottle. We expect that there will be as many “new media SAG contracts” as there are Local Car Commercial film permits.
Vuguru, 60 Frames, and Fox Digital have all vowed that they will never go SAG, but we still have faith that they will know in our heart that they will know difference between an actress that has a SAG Card for doing an unaired Best Buy commercial and the one who is a voucher away from joining us. And if the decission is close, they will chose to do the BS paperwork and go to a stupid meeting and drive to Hollywood weeks in advance to get the folder even thought they have a full time job at Wooden Nickel.
So to you crew workers, brothers at arms, who I have honored so much with my “hey boom guy, why is there no creamer at the craft service table” and our “would you tell the gaffer to get Twilight from my backpack”… trust us when we promise you that even if we go on strike, we will make absolutely sure that you get one of the “800 feature jobs” that is as equal paying to the USC short films that I have acted in through out my disgrunted life.
Best
Doug Allen
So, Ace, I guess you see absolutely no downside to a strike? You believe it will only be a wonderful thing for everybody in the industry?
Be careful as you answer because if you acknowledge there is any downside to a strike whatsoever then you are a shill for the AMPTP–that according to the parameters you’ve set for this discussion.
You sound like you need to step back and think. You say the only people on this board opposing Allen are non-SAG members. I’m a SAG member and I recall a long list of celebrity SAG members signing a letter declaring their opposition to strike authorization. If you really believe all SAG members are in favor of strike authorization then you are living in a fantasy land.
If you are in a large room and everyone keeps saying you’re crazy but you insist everyone else is crazy, guess what?
Please think about it. Defending Doug’s truly idiotic letter to members without any acknowledgment to the sound criticisms of it posted on this board makes you seem stupid. I’m sure you’re not stupid, so…
Think about it.
Someone should seriously consider doing a documentary on this whole sordid affair! Would be insightful, and funny (in a dark humour sort of way)…
Yo, “IA member” -
No, it isn’t personal. Membership First has been running the negotiations with an iron fist on the Neg Comm. They refused to give voting seats to the “new guys” and the “new guys” actually did not win the Hollywood Division – they only won a few seats, which gives a slim National Board majority to a coalition of “new guys”/New York/some RBD. I guarantee you, it is not personal. It is business. We cannot send out the AMPTP’s last offer because it can be improved upon by a new Negotiating team.
Yo, “Ace” (Matt Mulhern)
You asked: ““Membership First/Doug Allen’s plan is
AS SOON AS THEY GET ACTORS TO STRIKE SAG WORK
THEY INTEND TO PASS A SPECIAL “STRIKE RULE” THAT SAYS SAG ACTORS MAY NOT WORK ON NEW AFTRA PRODUCTIONS.” Is this true, Tom, or did you just pull that out of your ass? Did you mean it? Are you positive about that? Can you back that accusation up with any facts? Any facts at all…?”
I know this because they have said it. Several times. Once at least at the New York Town Hall meeting you attended but where you heard so little at because you were busy making faces and cavorting – while I was taking detailed notes on the proceedings. That’s how I’m positive, that’s why I mean it – I heard it and wrote it down. Now, if you don’t like that, you too can write it down, then fold it five ways and place it where the moon don’t shine.
Errr, isn’t the simple threat of a strike already slowing down the industry? What’s the percentage of industry work (in dollar terms or in head counts) that would be shut down?
Tossing and turning night after night because of the strike possibility .Is there a light at the end of this tunnel this has been going on for a good part of a year now with no end in sight.
To Ace @ Dec 30…@8:26
Nice of you to write that Tom Ligon should “crawl back into his hole”. At least Tom Ligon signs his name at the end of a post… and you Ace… go on to call people who don’t agree with you “mystery posters” with their spin (spinners)…Well, WHO ARE YOU ACE? Aren’t you one of those “mystery posters”. I know Ace, your last name is Hole…that makes you Acehole!
Mr. Ligon:
You seem to be on the inside with SAG so I’ll just keep asking questions. I honestly don’t understand why SAG is not united. Aren’t the issues important to ALL SAG Members? Even if there is a political divide why wouldn’t all factions/coasts at least rally around the preservation of your residuals and the fending off of the rollbacks? I keep hearing “bad timing” and “unite with other unions” but hasn’t it been made clear that the DGA, Aftra and IA are out for themselves? Don’t you want to hit Management when they’re hurting too? I don’t find Doug Allen’s letter strange. I believe it’s only addressed to the SAG Membership and is trying to convey hope that there will be some work during the Strike. But, if you shut down the vast majority of prime time TV and Features wouldn’t that have a HUGE impact on Management? I for one am hoping SAG gets their deal because I want to benefit from it when IA goes in again and we already have the precedent in place. I know there will be jobs lost but to think SAG can do better at another time is naive. So, what does a Union do? Stop being a Union because other Unions say so? I want a better deal and SAG can make that happen… IF the SAG Membership can unite!
Sorry, Tom, wrong again. I’m not Matt (though if he’s read your post I suppose he’ll correct you as well). I’m sure a lot of ideas (and threats) are/were floated at each membership meeting. You do realize, don’t you, that until something is voted upon by the board, it ain’t gonna happen…? Your handwritten “notes” don’t make it so. Also, this whole contract negotiation is very personal with you (and others) – you continue to make reference to the differing factions of MF vs U4S. Dude, it’s over. Accept it and get over it. The National Board (and the NegCom) is made up of both MF and U4S (as well as independents, like myself). The board is what it is, and they’ll vote as they see fit, as a unified body.
And Stephen? Where have I said anything about the pros or cons of a strike? Nowhere in these comments, pal. (Though I’ve been very clear about my feelings on that in other topic comments.) Don’t put words in my mouth.
“You say the only people on this board opposing Allen are non-SAG members.”
Didn’t say that, either. Far from it.
Further, you stated, “…I recall a long list of celebrity SAG members signing a letter declaring their opposition to strike authorization.”
Funny, I recall a long list of celebrity SAG producers “signing” (supposedly, but unconfirmed) a letter declaring their opposition to a strike authorization. Which has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
This topic is about Doug Allen’s memo, and the facts about what a strike means with regards to other work that would still be available. It’s clarification on specific questions which have been asked. Pretty simple, really.
But you “Vote NO” people don’t like those facts, do you? You don’t like it when the entire industry is presented with facts (not opinions, not exaggerations) about what is happening and what might happen – because it doesn’t suit your position(s), and you might be wrong (*gasp*) about industry-wide Armageddon. All you can do is call this memo “idiotic” (among other things), and call Doug Allen a “prick” (among other things). Great way to present an argument, people.
I’m a little shocked that more WGA folks aren’t posting here, but I suspect that, like me, they’re all still too worn out from our own strike to comment on the merits of someone else’s. But I’ll just say this: At the end of our three months on the picket line the members of my union were exhausted, divided, terrified, and the majority of us were more than ready to take a deal that wasn’t nearly good enough, just so it would be over.
That was us after 100 days on the picket line.
That’s where SAG is right now.
So think about it, SAG Members. Just think about what it takes to have a “successful” strike, and ask yourselves if you’ve got it. Because unfortunately, just because you’re right, that doesn’t mean you can win.