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UPDATE: I will have a full report shortly. For now, the latest SAG statement:
SAG NATIONAL BOARD MEETING ADJOURNS WITHOUT ACTIONS
LOS ANGELES, January 13, 2009 --SAG President Alan Rosenberg sent the following message to Screen Actors Guild national board members and alternates today:
“At the end of the National Board plenary meeting this afternoon, a group of board members submitted a document to the Guild that purports to deal with the employment of the National Executive Director and the continuing approach to negotiations. After analyzing the document, Screen Actors Guild’s in-house and outside counsel have concluded that the document does not constitute a valid written assent, for several reasons, including a lack of sufficient signatures and the absence of any language on the document demonstrating the intent of the signers to grant their assent to the proposal. Guild National Executive Director and Chief Negotiator Doug Allen and the National Television and Theatrical Contract Negotiating Committee remain committed to advancing the cause of actors and our crucial contract negotiations.”
No substantive actions were taken by the Guild’s national board, which met at SAG’s national headquarters January 12 and 13 for almost 30 hours straight.
No mailing date has been set for the previously approved TV/Theatrical strike authorization referendum.
We have no further comment.
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Are they just trying to be funny?
What the hell can take 30 hours that they’d rather not go home and get a nap? Seriously! What happened to filibusters and “no quorum no meeting”?
So much for Variety’s exclusive.
LOL. Damn, Variety and THR are going to be bummed. How are they going to spin this into a “SAG Strike Authorization Vote has been stymied” piece?
Nikki, you just keep on telling the truth, Darling. I’d rather be fed the salty truth from you than a sugary littany of lies and distortions from the AMPTP and their shill rags.
Thank you.
Wow, what a shock. Nothing was accomplished. Thanks again membership first. Way to get things done. Unbelievable.
So, after 30.5 hours of meetings there is nothing new to report and no new plan? Anyone wonder why they have been unable to get a new deal in place at this point?
Come on SAG, get off your asses and do something. Strike or sign the last offer, but move the process forward. People are losing their homes and bisinesses while this stalemate continues.
The only thing more pathetic than this is the IATSE leadership and their negotiating skills…
This is going to be used in E-Law and Labor Relations courses for years to come as a textbook example of “How Not To Conduct A Strike.” I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of idiots in my life.
Another shameful waste of union money by the leadership. This meeting was a charade.
What a bunch of boobs. SAG leadership has stumbled at every step in this adventure, and now they publicize their own failed vote of “no confidence” in their own press release. This is stupid on SO many levels, the least of which is that this is nothing but more ammunition for the AMPTP. It’s clear now that they’re not going to get the strike authorization, and that the membership is deeply divided and wouldn’t survive a strike even if they did.
The writing is on the wall: Take the contract, no matter how crap it is, because that’s all you CAN do. But they can’t even see that. So the stalemate will continue until … when? What miraculous event has to happen for SAG to actually DO something, ANYthing?
I’ve been on their side ’til now, but now I’m just disgusted with the lot of them.
WTF?
So its all come down to semantics? The intent is clear. Run rabbit run
Doug Allen is toast.
No substantive actions were taken by the Guild’s national board, which met at SAG’s national headquarters January 12 and 13 for almost 30 hours straight.
Seems to this causual observer that if SAG couldn’t get anything done in 30 straight hours, the AMPTP didn’t stand a chance.
What a bunch of self indulgent pricks! SAG couldn’t hit water if jumped into the ocean. The Los Angeles economy is screwed! Help us, Obi Wan Kenobi!
And now get ready for SAG vs. SAG: The Lawsuit. Still no contract in place, still no strike authorization, still out of work? Watch for production to jump forward as SAG fights with itself until 2011.
Honestly, just put it to a vote and get it over with.
I don’t understand why the infighters are trying to sabotage a simple vote. Unless there are other forces at play here. Let SAG vote. Voices be heard, chips fall where they may, enough of this bullshit.
I gotta agree with Workin Stiff. The minority party manages to stave off a coup after 30+ hours of filibustering and people think they are WEAK!?!
I like the guy who says to “Take the contract, no matter how crap it is, because that’s all you CAN do.” Because that’s in no way defeatist.
There IS something you can do. You can NOT take the deal and go to the mats and watch Chernin and Moonves et al squirm while the entire town goes up in flames and stockholders in their companies call for their heads because they couldn’t come up with a deal for ACTORS.
Yeah, you really think they would get to keep their jobs if there was a strike? But, by all means, let’s not strike because we all wanna keep working for pennies.
You have GOT to be kidding me? This is really pathetic. So all of this and absolutely NOTHING has changed. Brilliant. So of all us that work on movies that haven’t worked for the last 4 months are STILL screwed because these jackasses don’t know their assholes from a hole in the ground.
I’m gonna be sick.
This can’t be real. For once, I’m beggin for ACE to regale us with some spin…
Exactly how many months has it been now that SAG has done absolutely NOTHING either way? My God, SAG is officially a complete fucking joke. They’re so desperate to stall the AMPTP (you know, those with the checkbooks who greenlight movies and series which, you know, employ SAG’s members) that they don’t seem to realize or care that production has trickled which means even less jobs than usual for its members which SAG continues to fuck around. Or maybe they’re simply as stupid as everyone says. What next? Fighting over chairs? LMFAO!
My,my. Anyone have the blow by blow?
30 hours can blow by very quickly in negotiations. Parties negotiate, break apart into sides or subgroups. Review documents, draft documents, discuss documents. Break for meals and caffiene. Back to arguing. I wouldn’t assume the fact nothing decided means nothing accomplished. Many proposals likely flew back and forth. Lots of accusations and proposed strategies. The sides within SAG may not be any closer, but they hopefully better understand each others positions.
it would be funny if it weren’t so utterly pathetic and tragic. how could a once proud and powerful union have so destroyed ourselves that we have become the stuff of corporate wet-dreams. it must be the single worst conducted labour almost-dispute in history. we will all be held accountable by the next generation of actors to whom residuals and the idea of making a half-decent living from their chosen profession will be as fantastical as unicorn soup. it’s shameful. unless there’s something i’m missing, we rejected merger numbers of times, elected the present administration to get us a better deal on DVDs and to fight for a proper and equitable share of new media and then, when it actually came time to get dirty, we re-invigorated the AFTRA debate, split ourselves down the middle, took DVD off the table, then stabbed our leaders in the back, front and face in front of our enemies. I guess we’ll get what we deserve. i’m sorry Doug and Alan. sorry to you and sorry for me and all of us.
I have a suggestion. Why not film all this SAG silliness for a bad reality television program? It would probably be a hell of a lot more entertaining to watch than most things on TV today. People love to watch complete meltdowns.
I revise my previous suggestion. I don’t think SAG has jurisdiction over reality television programming. I think that falls under the purview of the other actor’s union – the one with the contract.
Such a shame to waste a good train wreck starring some really washed up actors.
There IS something you can do. You can NOT take the deal and go to the mats and watch Chernin and Moonves et al squirm while the entire town goes up in flames and stockholders in their companies call for their heads because they couldn’t come up with a deal for ACTORS.
Yeah, you really think they would get to keep their jobs if there was a strike? But, by all means, let’s not strike because we all wanna keep working for pennies.
Well that doesn’t make a lick of sense. None of the studios have direct shareholders. Fox (Chernin’s studio) accounts for _maybe_ 30% of News Corps’ revenue. Most of that 30% is library value & TV. The amount of it attributable to new releases? Let’s be generous and say 1/3? That means that we’re talking about maybe 10% of News Corps revenue that will be affected. I don’t think shareholders are going to be revolting.
Look – EDUCATE YOURSELVES. What happened today was a BRILLIANT display of parliamentary and filibustering one-up-man-ship by the SAG leadership over UFS, the RBD and NY.
One person there said to me “we could NOT believe how dumb and unprepared they were. it was like they had no plan A, let alone B.”
So, this certainly should beg the question: UFS, which insisted on this NEW meeting of the national board to get them to overturn their OWN decision to send out the SAV January 2nd, vote announced January 23rd – can they run a lemonade stand? – let alone SAG – protecting your wages and working conditions, your residuals, your pension and health, your professional LIFE as an actor?
They just got their ASSES kicked for 35 hours, accomplished NOTHING and then, flew back to Peoria.
Wow. You have to WORK to be that stupid.
A great idea to get behind would be “we can’t give away residuals. We must do whatever it takes to get a fair deal on residuals because without them, SAG will whither financially and die. You want pension and health? You want all the protections and benefits our predecessors fought and, when forced to, went on strike for? (NOT ONE major advance was achieved without at least the threat of a strike, or an actual strike)
You have to decide to EDUCATE yourselves and then make a decision: is this a contract that’s “bad” as EVERYBODY agrees, but that we can “fix” in three years?
OR, is this a declaration of war on the middle-class actor by the AMPTP?
The conclusion you reach will determine either where you are already, or where you will be.
A friend of mine gave one of SAG’s old MF dogs a ride home today. This well-respected actor said:
“you wanna know what Nick Counter and the AMPTP are really like?”
“Sure”
“I was in a negotiating room, alone, with Nick Counter in ‘05. I picked up his negotiating notes and I saw ‘Deal point #1: Three years after an actor dies, his residuals will revert to the studio, no longer to the family.’ ”
“I sad – Nick – what the fuck is this?”
Nick says “what? It’s just a negotiation, that’s all – it’s a start?”
“A start?”
“Yeah, you know, we throw it in, maybe you get it tossed out. It’s a start… what?”
“Nick – that’s bullshit and you know it.”
“eh, it’s a negotiation. It probably won’t happen.”
“Then why’d you put it in there?”
“Look – you gotta start somewhere.”
You gotta start somewhere…
When the SAG membership wakes up to the fact that, once the AMPTP gets it’s boot on our throat? It’s over – then, we may begin to approach this as unified professionals doing what we have to do, rather than the clown squad known as UFS on display the last two days over at SAG headquarters.
Then, maybe, just maybe, we can get past the “my faction is better than your faction” bullshit and get this thing where it needs to be: an authorization and the spine to strike if necessary to protect ourselves, our families and our fucking rights.
NMH….I agree with you.
Shareholders are not going to be revolting. Are some of you for real. These corporations are vested in so many areas, it doesnt matter!!!! It is truly stunning how people dont realize how the industry has changed. Fighting for pennies when we SAG members are becoming so obsolete. THEY DONT NEED US!!
I’m waiting for the late-second-act twist where we discover that Doug Allen has been working for Nick Counter all along. That’s the only way to explain the events of the last six weeks.
I love creative people very much, and respect their talent (which I do not have!)… But damn, guys and gals, you seem to NOT know how to manage your own affairs!
And if that’s true, then hire an outside, tough as nails manager to run SAG and represent your interests.
Gawd, this is getting old. You are your own worst enemies.
There IS something you can do. You can NOT take the deal and go to the mats and watch Chernin and Moonves et al squirm while the entire town goes up in flames and stockholders in their companies call for their heads because they couldn’t come up with a deal for ACTORS.
One major fly in the ointment – There won’t be a strike! It would be IMPOSSIBLE to get a 75% authorization with the board and the membership as deeply divided as they currently are. The sad thing is SAG Actor magazine (and an email that was sent to all SAG members) had all the pro-strike authorization stuff in it, but now the vote is put off until ????
I say PUT THE CONTRACT TO A VOTE WITH A NON-ENDORSEMENT BY THE BOARD. It’s very possible that enough of us won’t vote for the contract. At least THAT gives the negotiating committee something to take back to the AMPTP to say “Sorry, our MEMBERS don’t want this”. Not the militant negotiating committee that they’ve been bumping heads with for almost a year.
IF the membership votes to take the contract, then SO BE IT. Either way we’ll be much better off than failing (and make no mistake we will fail) to ratify the strike auhtorization.
I would vote against the contract and I will not vote for a strike authorization with the ineffective negotiating committee that we have in place right now. This has been bungled time and time again – across the board. Our backs are to the wall and if they put out a failed referendum for a strike, we’re screwed.
To What a show:
You are right AFTRA does have jurisdiction over Reality shows along with News and Talk shows.
What many don’t understand is how many of their members work Non-union in those jurisdiction. One of the biggest abuser is Larry King, who hosts a Non-inion talk show on CNN, who is both a AFTRA and SAG member.
So how is he able to get away with it?
According to AFTRA If they are unable to organize a show or not even try to organize it then even though they claim jurisdicition over simular talk shows Larry King is allowed to continue to work Non-union with no action taken by his union against him.
NMH -
You bring up a common misperception about these corporations, that somehow, because of their size and diversification, they’re not prone to pressure from a union.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Take NBC Universal, which is owned by GE. The corporate parent expects each of its divisions to turn a profit. In truly awful times, management understands that a division or two may have some difficulty, but they still keep each and every division under enormous pressure to stay in the black. If NBC bleeds red, Jeff Zucker’s going to need a lot more than his homeboy status with Tracy Morgan to save his cookies.
If a union – any union – that NBC contracts with starts costing the network some real dough as the result of a labor action, Zucker’s bosses are going to ask tough questions and expect strong answers. Same with the other networks and movie studios.
A united Screen Actors’ Guild is most certainly able to get a contract that doesn’t neuter the guild and turn acting into a hobby if your last name ain’t Hanks (um, Tom, unless he extends his largesse to his child). The press releases and the statements and the bluster from the AMPTP is just so much negotiating-related noise.
What’s truly sad about this situation is SAG has a cadre now of chickensh*ts who are afraid to fight fire with fire. They’d rather eat their own kidneys than piss on the AMPTP’s “last best final” BS offer. They don’t realize it’s far better to be singed now than incinerated later.
This must be the happiest day of AMPTP and AFTRA’s lives.
Incredible. Not only is SAG not competent enough to negotiate with AMPTP, it isn’t even competent enough to negotiate with itself.
AMPTP may be composed of jackasses, but this 30-hour waste of time and effort does not help SAG’s claim that AMPTP is the problem party in negotiations.
And so the de facto strike continues.
“There IS something you can do. You can NOT take the deal and go to the mats and watch Chernin and Moonves et al squirm while the entire town goes up in flames and stockholders in their companies call for their heads because they couldn’t come up with a deal for ACTORS.
Yeah, you really think they would get to keep their jobs if there was a strike? But, by all means, let’s not strike because we all wanna keep working for pennies.”
this is a beautiful example of the horrible selfish additude here. You would let the town go up in flames so that you can get a better deal for yourSELF. It makes me sick. really.
Just because the strike is right for us doesn’t make it right.
mheister: I hear what you’re saying but you are missing the meta argument. The studio boss says to the corporate boss: “We have saved X millions of dollars by extending this negotiation process and continuing to make movies under the old contract and Y millions of dollars will be saved by holding the line through a strike (which would be what, six months at the most until the union cracks? Probably more like 2-3, but anyway). However during the strike we will potentially lose Z dollars.” So long as X+Y<=Z then SAG is up the river without a paddle.
Also, there are two further points. My 10% calculation was based on a full year. If the sag is 1/4-1/2 year then we are talking about 2.5-5% of annual net. Second, this assumes that none of that lost revenue is recovered. The films that are frozen become unfrozen and get made, just later than planned and the TV schedule is hurt, but with reality, Leno at 10pm and AFTRA contracts, they don’t lose 100% revenue, they are just down by 25-50%.
I know this is all speculation but I think a reasoned analysis of the situation shows that the studios are not shaking in their boots.
SAG’s best course is to find someone practical to negotiate on their behalf, improve somewhat on the studio LBO and do a halfway decent job of preparing next time.
I’ve been watching all of this for a very long time. I’m not a shill, not an actor, just an indie guy out in the sticks with a lot of friends in all guilds in the biz in LA. I hoped for SAG to get it together and win the day for the other guilds after DGA sold the whole lot up the river, but they’ve missed the moment – they had no executible plan, and it’s clear to anyone watching the the union will not be unified toward any meaningful action that could possible change AMPTP’s position.
AMPTP is full of crap, such annoying paper thin rhetoric, as to make anyone with a brain want to twist their own ears off – but be that as they may, they are not going to give one inch. The members of the guild are too hungry at present to be able to endure a strike of the duration that would be required to break AMPTP. It’s that simple and AMPTP knows it, so there’s no point in pretending the situation is otherwise.
That brings us back to the two available options. 1) Offer to sign the deal that is currently on the table, but only for a two year duration. This would allow SAG to be first at bat at the next contract renewal period (something AMPT NEVER wants to happen), it would allow a unified effort with the writers, and it would put AMPTP in a very difficult PR position if they balked at signing, simply because of the term.
2)Draft and publish a fair deal that SAG would accept, then announce that no further negotiations will be initiated by the guild – The idea here is that SAG would work under the old contract until such time as WGA’s contract comes up for renewal, then be ready to go on strike with the writers.
I see no other viable options that are in any way advantagous to the guild, or any of the other industry guilds in the short or long run.
It’s unfortunate that it has come to this, A lot of things might have been done differently to change the dynamic, but looking back does no good what-so-ever. The simple fact is that AMPTP had a strategy for the contract renewal cycle and they executed on it in a unified fashion. The guilds did not. To win next time around SAG is going to have find a means of getting out front with the writers — DGA and AFTRA (or whatever that lousy soap opera guild is called) are never going to be any help.
Good night to all. And, SAG crap or get off the pot, you’re not going to win this fight. To salvage some position for next time around is all that can be hoped for at this juncture. I wish it were otherwise, but sometimes clold hard reality bites.
Here’s all I want for 2009:
1. SAG accepts the deal and we get to work and don’t strike.
2. The Sacramento nimrods agree to give tax incentives to production companies to STAY in Calfornia to shoot both big budget and ALL budget productions
3. AFTRA and SAG get along and work together for the membership at LARGE, so that we can work.
4.California gets out of bankruptcy
5. My nephew who’s a recent Annapolis graduate is safe on his journey at sea protecting all Americans its allies.
6. Our new President Elect keeps his word to not raise taxes, and smoothly takes office
7. We all have robust healt
8. Jack Bauer keeps kicking ass
I know I got off subject, but then I think I redeemed myself with Jack Bauer.
Let’s just get on with a good year –shall we?
Membership First,
You have ruined any chance of SAG ever getting a decent contract.
You have ruined this entire union.
You have divided us at a time when we could least afford division.
This will NEVER be forgotten.
I just threw up in my mouth……
“Spin”?
Ha-ha-ha… Now that cracked me up. Thanks!
To Matt Mulhern:
How long does it take for ya’ll to educate yourselves? Are you guys waiting for someone to hand you a script?
6 fucking months! We’re educated and going broke! DO SOMETHING RELIVENT!!!
Oy…
You know, if you “Vote Yes” folks can’t see that you’re destroying your own union, then maybe you deserve to lose it all to AFTRA.
I just hope you don’t “burn the town down”, as you said you’re willing to do, while you hang yourselves.
Pay attention, everyone. You are witnessing Hollywood history right now. These are the last days of an actors union called SAG.
if you bail on our union then we will give up all residuals for our work if it is shown on the internet.
We are losing sight of what we are fighting for.
We are in a digital revolution and we have to stake our claim.
$3500 prime time down to $24 a month on the internet for a principal lead in a series’ residuals.
Can’t you see how important this time is?
The producers are using the economy as a scare/negotiation tactic.
Stay strong.
Wow you idiots sound like your fighting to end child labor and not the pocket change you make in residual from your five minute appearance on 30 Rock going on up on Hulu.
Its not like your going to be negotiating again in three years. Oh wait you are! Swallow your pride and take the deal, get rid of idiots like Rosenberg (his wife already did) and Allen, and work on unifying your broken guild, get together with WGA and DGA and have a stronger bargaining position in three years.
Well this isn’t good, but it isn’t as bad as it could be. The truly stupid move would be to listen to UFS and the NY board and say yes to that travesty of a contract.
Short term memory loss – the deals struck with the Writers and the Directors didn’t happen until Nick Counter was essentially sidelined by the moguls. That’s right, even the supposedly ‘easy’ Directors negotiations stalled briefly during their unofficial stage – and since the moguls wanted that one signed quick they stepped in.
They have never stepped in with the actors.
More short memory time: anyone remember the great non strike of 2001. You know the strike that didn’t happen, but the same ramped up production schedule proceeded that was similar to what they did for two years this time. Welcome to NY in 2001 and 2002, production slowed to a trickle and we saw very little work. Because they needed to clear the shelves.
I’m not an actor. But here’s my two cents. Send out the contract. But make very sure that everyone knows what it says. And what that can mean in real life. Yes, new media is important. And it is unlikely that it will be revisited unless every Union and Guild band together – but that is still possible. Everyone of them is going to feel it, including the craft unions. What will never be revisited is force majeur – tell me what you are getting for giving up that protection. Crickets. Nothing. You do not give up something for nothing. But most of important is that minor clip issue. It affects no one like actors. You won’t get any help on that down the line. As an actor, you lose that protection it is gone – forever. Now take a look around at what is being done with digital editing and cgi. You can write off any control of your image, any build to a promising career because ‘new’ appearances will be manufactured from studio owned product. For promotion of products, for guest appearances, web programs. It will happen. What are you going to get for losing that future in this contract?
Even if it means working with this contract for years, actors really would be fools to accept and ratify what the moguls minions/enforcers have put forth. Send it out, vote no. Maybe then the actual negotiating team might show up for a meeting.
I side with going tough as nails against the AMPTP. It’s the only way to protect our interests. That said, I do think it is irresponsible to not move this thing along in some fashion after such a meeting. And I believe our SAG leaders owe it to the membership to move this along — even if it is a strike authorization call.
I don’t think this current “stalling strategy” (aka de facto strike) does the job. It is too slow and allow the opponent to reposition itself. A real strike doesn’t allow for a repositioning and causes the AMPTP to force its hand. A strike, really, is the only way out of this mess. Sending out the contract is just another “stalling strategy” and makes us end up back at strike or no strike. And we don’t even have the best and final offer yet from the AMPTP, which means they are still holding cards that haven’t been forced yet.
this is a beautiful example of the horrible selfish additude here. You would let the town go up in flames so that you can get a better deal for yourSELF. It makes me sick. really.
If you don’t want to negotiate in your own self-interest you don’t get to complain about a deal that screws you over. If the TOWN is your primary concern go ahead and take the shitty contract and then shut the fuck up about it.
If you laugh at the joke you don’t get to complain about being the punchline.
“I will have a full report shortly.” going on for something like 12 hours now. You keep using this word “shortly.” I do not think it means what you think it means.
C’mon, Nikki, dish! You’re my main source to find out what these schmucks are doing! The waiting is killing us.
Limbo and “Sag Actor”:
Right now, I would imagine that the powers that be would be terribly frightened.
Membership First is the minority and managed to hold off what certainly must have seemed to be a fait accompli.
You are right when you say there won’t be a strike. Because at this point, were we to get a 75% auth, the other side would sit down immediately and bargain fairly. The actions and success of M1 would, I should think, prove that this is a union to be reckoned with.
So, it’s not selfish of that actor to be in favor of a strike. On the contrary, we should all vote yes to empower those strong and willful few who broke their backs yesterday and encourage them to continue to fight FOR us, which is all that they are doing.
Who called this meeting? U4S. Who couldn’t even organize themselves, as the majority, to navigate parliamentary procedure and legalities to make their coup work? U4S. Who won’t fight on your behalf because they are weak? U4S.
Stand behind your union, your leaders are on your side.
“The idea here is that SAG would work under the old contract until such time as WGA’s contract comes up for renewal, then be ready to go on strike with the writers.”
I wouldn’t count on the writers being willing to strike again in two years. The union is already very divided about the last strike. Next time, the “moderates” will be out in full force. They won’t stay quiet through an authorization again. Imagine a letter very much like the one the “Vote No” crowd put out, only Aaron Sorkin and Paul Attanasio are at the top of the list instead of Tom Hanks.
I support SAG in theory. but this idea that “if we strike, we will win” is incorrect. You can strike and lose. Quite easily. And if the studios believe that they can break the union, they won’t intervene with Counter, because breaking the union is their real goal. It almost worked with the WGA. They were thisclose, when the WGA membership settled for a deal that wasn’t good enough. Part of the reason that happened was to save the union, which was about to fracture into two very angry camps (moderates vs. hardliners).
Unfortunately, SAG’s current problems are only giving comfort to the enemy.
The problems we’re having here remind me of the problems we’re having as a larger country. We’ve had it good for so long (the profoundly myopic of us of course will disagree and say we’ve had it so horribly bad) that we’ve forgotten how to be tough. As a country we stand on the accomplishments of our forebears who fought tooth and nail to bring this country to where it is. Now we slowly drive it to ruin because not only do we want expensive wars and lots of government spending, we also don’t want any new taxes – we actually want lower taxes because times are just too hard. Somebody else will pick up the bill (i.e. your children) because it’s just too dang hard to pay for the things we want.
As unions, we have reaped the benefits of our forebears who were willing to fight (under just as difficult economic circumstances) for residuals, healthcare, etc., at a time when they were contracted directly to studios and could literally be blackballed for life. Now the studios want to do away with all that and we’re going to let them do it because it’s just too hard to fight back. We’ve got OUR pensions and OUR residuals – screw the next generation, we have to give away theirs and they’re just going to have to deal with it because I wanted to buy a house with no money down. Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his fucking grave.
Everywhere I go all I hear is it’s just too hard, and somebody else is going to have to pick up the bill for me after I’m gone, because it’s just too much for me to do anything. It disgusts me.
“We’re educated and going broke! DO SOMETHING RELIVENT!!!”
“Infamous”
That sort of says it all.
For what it’s worth – put away the drama and the noise and explore why this will lead to very, very bad things for the middle-class actor and SAG itself, unless we drag the suits to keeping residuals via a formula that rises and falls with their profit.
They aint gettin’ into new media to go broke folks – and it’s therefore not required that WE get into new media to go broke – it is NOT “about pennies.”
SOON ENOUGH the returns on the internet will begin to rise – THAT’S WHY THE SUITS ARE LEADING ALL CONTENT THERE.
Do we want to be tied into some bullshit formula (the current one) that distances SAG from the profits the producers are making?
Or, do we understand NOW is the time to make SURE the deal is FAIR?
Because once we sign all this stuff away: it is NEVER coming back. There is ZERO precedent for the AMPTP “giving back” ANYTHING – except a used tissue.
Once everybody understands that, then we can all back up our NED when he asks: “why won’t you allow us to participate in your profit stream in a fair way NOW?”
Because that, of course, is THE question. They don’t need “flexibility” to “experiment” up front. They need to pay our asses in a fair way from DAY 1 of this contract, give us FULL jurisdiction, and we need to FORCE them to do that, if they won’t change their tactics.
Those who say “it’s a foot in the door” need to understand – if SAG signs this and their new media plans start to hum, that DOOR is getting CLOSED and our “foot” is going with it. The REST of us? OUTSIDE THE DOOR.
Those arguing “just sign the thing – we need to get back to work” need to understand there’s a really, really, good REASON it hasn’t been signed: it will wipe out the middle-class actor, and eventually SAG itself.
THAT’S WHY. So, why not begin to turn our fire – together – where it belongs: THE AMPTP
I would be interested in seeing if the WGA comes out to join the SAG picket lines, following all the SAG rhetoric about how AWFUL the deal is. How many times can you call your compatriots morons before they don’t want to play with you anymore.
There’s a lot of talk about 75 or no. I maintain that since 95% of SAG is not working at any given time, the waiters, busboys, etc. probably amount to that 75%. These people have NOTHING to lose with a strike because they don’t work in the industry anyway. I wonder what the percentage would be if SAG was (properly limited to) qualified voting.
I am stunned at the filibuster. That’s a measure of last resort and the tactic of someone who has nothing real behind them. I don’t quite get how come more SAG members don’t see that. If your leader has to resort to THAT, then do you really trust him to lead? This makes me think back to the SAG / AFTRA debate where Rosenberg would never let AFTRA finish a sentence, but anytime anyone else (AFTRA or moderator) wanted to speak he would say “LET ME FINISH”. It was painful to watch.
Very well said Mr. Mulhern!!! You have thrown down the white lightning of truth!!! All else is nonsense.
Here’s what SAG should do.
develop a multie teired contract system.
Have an A,B,C,D,E,F,G system of contracts- make the A contract very advantageous to the studios and the G contract in the interests of the actors.
Offer an A contract to one studio.
Offer a B contract to two studios
Offer a C contract to three studios
Offer these contracts on a first come first serve basis.
Offer as many contracts as there are studios minus one.
Now. If a profit seeking entity like a studio does not jump at a chance to look after it’s self interest and try to be the only studio with an A contract than we will have a problem what will have labour law implications.
This is david vs. the big f-in green monster with 7 heads. why not get the heads to bite each other…
Scom,
Does ANYONE on this board think that a strike authorization will pass? With 75% or better? Anyone????
Obviously Membership First doesn’t or they would have tried already. So what the heck are we DOING???!!!
I totally agree that the TIMING is advantageous for a strike. But ONLY IF you have STRONG NEGOTIATORS to take advantage of it. And frankly we don’t. We have entrenched sides that have ego and politics firmly in place. The bad blood in the negotiating room runs freely and would doom us to a strike that would last long enough to cripple the industry.
My choice to not vote for a strike authorization is because we are TOO DIVIDED TO SURVIVE A STRIKE. And make no mistake, if we vote for a strike authorization THERE WILL BE A STRIKE. That is clear by the lack of results in the Plenary. Membership First is only in the minority by a few votes. If two board members go to the bathroom they could vote a strike in.
We cannot fight the AMPTP and ourselves and our sister unions at the same time. It’s lunacy. AFTRA will pick up every new pilot and show and feature film it can while we are in limbo. And make no mistake, we will be in limbo for a LOOOOOOOOOONG time unless something significant changes. And no, not a strike authorization that is doomed to failure.
hey y’all, I know you are in a panic, or at least Matt Mulhern is ready to lose his precious presence of mind over it but…
the AMPTP is not the enemy. they are simply who we are negotiating with. it’s true that they are nothing but a room of asshole lawyers, but if we don’t also have a room of equally asshole lawyers then that is our own fault.
and if our political process has handed our asshole lawyers nothing to work with but overly high expectations, confusion and delay well then…
…well then what? well then who really is the enemy? because the rest of it is just getting the best deal you can, at the best time. and that discussion, beloved friends, was something that should’ve been happening YEARS AGO, in conjunction with other guilds, not in a 30+ hour meeting now.
GOOD GOD PEOPLE. we screwed up, that’s all. it’s not Gaza or Iraq, it’s just another guild negotiation, but we did screw it up. now it’s time to patch it up as best as we can and, for the sake of all of the people we work with, move on before we go from being a weaker guild to an irrelevent one.
“if the TOWN is your primary concern go ahead and take the shitty contract and then shut the fuck up about it.”
Th TOWN is my primary concern. The TOWN is the people, and I and my fellow actors are only part of it.
I would LOVE to take the shitty contract. They won’t even let us vote on it. Or anything else.
Why do people think they have a RIGHT to everything they want??
People argue “This strike will hurt an enormous ammount of people who have nothing to gain” and the Yes people argue back “But we’ll lose our residuals forever.”
I have not heard a single argument that adresses or even respects the reality, the gravity of what the impact would be on the rest of the community. If you have an argument for why it’s okay to put other people through that for our single own selish benifit, then please present that argument. every time you simply ignore that, pivot and list the things that stink about the deal, you show yourselves for being self-centered to the point of cruelty.
I think the deal stinks. I think it’s a step down for sag. But too bad. we have no right to freeze the entire machine so that we can get the IDEAL situation for ourselves. We just don’t.
Folks, please re-read the post by love’s labors lost, because that’s exactly where things are. It is time to move on. This battle is lost, but the war is not.
But the war will be lost unless you knock this crap off. And I mean right f’ing NOW. Because every day you waste with further delays, with this catastrophic, fracturing confusion, is another step closer that AFTRA takes to consuming ALL the work that you would otherwise have.
SAG is bleeding internally right now. Unless you take drastic action — and, again, I mean right f’ing NOW — to remove the Allens or demand that they take the contract, SAG will be finished. Not diminished, not just publicly humiliated. I mean finished. As in SAG will be obsolete and covering so few projects that your membership cards will be worthless and you’ll all be clamoring to join AFTRA.
To love’s labors lost,
Thank you for your down to earth comment. I wish other people shared your views. When this is all over with be it now or next year, this will be felt for years to come.
From my own experiences, I can say that a strike is a lose/lose situation for all involved.
“love’s labors lost”
how about “lost” for short.
If you understand it has NOTHING to do with their lawyers OR our lawyers, or the time that has passed, or going last, or going first, or the economy, or SAG leadership – BUT THAT IT ONLY HAS TO DO WITH ONE THING: the AMPTP, having announced in the NY Times in 2007 they were going to “phase out residuals” are going about the business, with this contract, of doing just that.
THAT’S the POINT.
Do you understand that?
There IS NO GOOD CONTRACT if we give away residuals.
The middle-class actor will watch his or her income start to drop – 30,40,50% in the next 2,3 years, if we sign this.
SAG will watch ITS income begin to drop 30,40,50% if we sign this. Pension and health will come under severe financial pressure because of the severe cut in income to SAG.
This flippant “hey, WE screwed up! let’s just sign the thing and get on with it!”
As an underpaid actor who received no residuals for his work said on TV (in a common joke) “what do you mean ‘WE’ white man?”
“WE” screwed up NOTHING. The basic new media template was decided by the AMPTP MONTHS before they entered negotiations with the first “union” – the DGA. The DGA, in its infinite wisdom (that’s sarcasm) after their “multi-million dollar research” came to the ridiculous conclusion, that the AMPTP shouldn’t be expected to cut the unions into a fair attachment to the AMPTP’s profit stream in new media, with FULL jurisdiction from day 1.
The DGA, in its infinite wisdom, said, essentially, “listen up WGA (and AFTRA and SAG)- we’ve done some RESEARCH, and we’ve come to the conclusion that the AMPTP is NOT the enemy (because many of us are producers) and we need to cut them some well needed slack so they can “experiment” and have “flexibility” in new media.
“Then, in three years, because we’re the DGA – we will, of course, talk to our friends, and make sure all this if fair. Trust us – we’re the smart guys, we have the know-how and the ‘relationships’ and we are telling you OTHER, LESS influential, less IMPORTANT unions – ‘this is the way to go.’ ”
BULLSHIT.
The DGA blew it. TOTALLY BLEW IT. And vastly complicated the issue for EVERYBODY ELSE.
The WGA struck, with SAG’S FULL support, even though SAG wasn’t even ASKED, then, the WGA settled for a BAD DEAL.
AFTRA? Behaved like AFTRA. “Yes, boss, we’re do I’se sign?!”
The leadership of SAG was the ONLY union smart enough to extrapolate this thing down the road a bit (not that hard at all, really) and understand what it really meant: The AMPTP is declaring war on the middle-class actor AND on SAG. They are making a deliberate attempt, which they ANNOUNCED IN THE NY TIMES in 2007 to “phase out residuals.”
Why? Cause they think they can, and they don’t want to pay them anymore. That’s why.
SAG is fighting off the mentally challenged wing of the guild and trying to get the message across to the membership that we CANNOT SIGN THIS CONTRACT. Not in it’s 6 months ago form, not in it’s now form (essentially the same).
Why? Because once the AMPTP wrestles residuals out of SAG’s hands – THEY ARE NEVER GIVING THEM BACK.
So – we are where we are: the SAG leadership fought off a coup from the gang that couldn’t shoot straight yesterday, and now, hopefully SAG members will begin to understand we MUST fight NOW to get the AMPTP to cut us into their new media profit stream, and that it doesn’t matter WHAT we get paid – even if it’s “pennies” at first, it’s ESTABLISHING HOW we get paid – tied into a perfectly fair formula that allows SAG to grow
WITH the AMPTP’s profit stream, as it builds, understanding the AMPTP is NOT getting into new media to make “pennies.” They are getting into new media, first, because, that’s where the technology is, and second, BECAUSE THEY PLAN ON MAKING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, and if SAG ties itself to an inferior formula that keeps us OUT of the profit stream of the distributors gross profits in new media, SAG will never GET that OPPORTUNITY BACK. EVER.
Will it take a fight? Yes. Is it POSSIBLE, if we present a strike authorization, that we’ll find out that WAS what we needed, and the AMPTP will finally say “O.K. – enough, let’s make a fair deal?”
It’s possible.
It’s probable they will be LIVID we are calling their bluff in our “outrageous attempt!” to continue to make a decent living and have a health and pension system that provides for us when we need it, you know, like we HAVE NOW?
And they will force us to strike. THERE ARE NO GOOD CHOICES: we either fight now, and suffer ALONG with the AMPTP the consequences of a strike, if they won’t be reasonable, (and believe me – they will BLEED, just like us)
OR
We give it all away NOW, and understand that we will NEVER GET IT BACK.
THAT’S the COLD, HARD TRUTH. How about we come together and FIGHT?
Ya gotta admire a couple guys who are willing to use rule’s of order in order to avoid rejection by their own members. I’m not sure if that’s hubris, or total lack of self respect? Please — someone at the DGA write Allen some lines that makes it possible for if to extricate himself from this mess.
Note: this isn’t to say I don’t sympathize with some of the issues but this is NOT THE TIME. If you think it IS the time, then get ready for the transition to Digital because the film you once appeared on will go well with your discount horse & buggy, and a major in Latin. I don’t want to see it, but SAG may be a bit of Hollywood history.
Hey boy’s, people are losing homes and businesses here! Try and give a crap.
Matt, the way you continue to RIP and BELITTLE your sibling unions and your EMPLOYER, I’m sure your phone’s going to be just ringing off the hook with job offers when this is all done. Your relentless Sun Tzu saber rattling bullshit has grown really tired.
Trainwreck: My Life as an upright biped who doesn’t run in the other direction when the AMPTP says “Boo!”
My sibling unions and my employer are secondary to right and wrong: maybe you should grow a spine and join the fight. I’m IN every single one of these damn unions except the WGA, and it’s probably just a question of time for that one. The truth is a very unpleasant thing when you’re on the wrong side of it. I’d rather go down swinging to do the right thing and take on these cockroaches, than toe the line and be one more gutless Hollywood weasel willing to do or say ANYTHING for his or her “career.”
Believe me, I haven’t lost a minute of sleep. This is so obviously the right thing to do, and believe me, there’s a shit-load of other SAG members who feel the exact same way – and some of the very BEST of them spent Monday and Tuesday in the Jimmy Cagney Room kicking the living shit out of the bodies spilling out of the UFS clown car.
Worried about your house, your car, your career, your money, your kids, the other unions, the guy who does the dry cleaning for “Cold Case?”
Guess what – so am I. I just prefer to place blame for that worry where it belongs: the door of the AMPTP, certainly not SAG’s.
There IS strength in numbers you know – why not all get behind who the REAL villian is here – the producers and stop pointing fingers at each other. We’ll save a lot of time, and get to where we gotta go one way or the other anyway: an authorization, or a strike, or an up or down vote on the contract.
Let’s get it over with.
I think the reason Matt is so heated up is because he defines a “working class SAG actor” as someone who has done 1 feature and 3 episodes of TV that have gone on the air in the last three years. Most people define a “working class actor” as someone who actually, well, works on a regular basis.
Here’s Matt..still trying to gather support while most of the rest of us have long since moved on from his “rallies”. You’d think he know by now that his opinions have lost their punch, if they ever had any. Push on New Majority…stay the course.
Mr. Mulhern has the correct impulse to defend himself and his fellows. All others seem rather cowardly.Mr. Mulhern does not flinch. He is to be admired.
Go Matt — you and a few others are the only ones on this site talking the issues. The more you keep coming back with researched and informed logic (it scares the shit out of them i.e. “Are We There Yet” and “Trainwreck”) — the more they will try and cut you down with name calling. Children who won’t even sign their names — I guarantee, you have worked more than all of them put together. The reason they don’t care about residuals is because they have never worked a SAG contract that gives them . . .
Just so you know — don’t lose faith. Every Actor I know who reads Nikki loves you and your replies. So keep getting the message out there.
Keep fighting the good fight — you are well informed and know what time it is!
Are We There Yet? — Talk about BSing? It’s a moot discussion until you sign your name. Come on, you can do it . . .
I didn’t think so!!!
Go Matt Mulhern — the real man’s working Actor!!
Scott, many of your own supporters use aliases. Why aren’t you trying to “out” them? What? No answer for that one? Like I said, you are all BS when it comes to taking some of your own medicine. Whether someone uses their name or not has nothing to do with the issues at hand. You are just attempting to throw people off the real focus here…the fact that you and your ilk can’t see the forest for the trees any longer. “Push on New Majority” or “Bring on the vote”, I say,…time to put these “real man’s working actors” to the test once and for all. The sooner this contract is approved (or the negotiating committe replaced), the sooner we can bring some sanity back to this town, get back to work and put these smoke and mirror artists squarely in their place.
Correct me if I’m missing something here.
AFTRA already has a deal in new media. If SAG somehow manages to negotiate the deal it wants and gets better terms than AFTRA, won’t producers just run to produce all their new media projects under the AFTRA contract? Wouldn’t a “better” deal for SAG just serve to strengthen AFTRA?
It seems to me that SAG’s legs have been cut out from under it by the other guilds in terms of getting the deal it wants in new media. This is just the reality, unfortunately, and puts SAG in a very weak bargaining position, IMO.