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SAG has announced for February 8th a "Special National Board Conference Meeting" 
where I'm told the SAG National Majority will make the same motions that are in the January 26th written assent and attempt to maneuver around any possible temporary restraining order obtained in court by Membership First's four members. The SAG National Majority is that coalition between most of the NY Division, the Reginal Division Branches, and the Hollywood Division minority Unite For Strength. The four MF'ers seeking the TRO Thursday are Alan Rosenberg, Anne-Marie Johnson, Diane Ladd and Kent McCord. The TRO is targeted at SAG itself and the 41 SAG National Board members who signed the written assent that fired National Executive Director and Chief Negotiator Doug Allen, split his job between new NED David White and new chief negotiator John McGuire, and replaced the SAG negotiating committee with a reconfigured task force to bargain with the AMPTP. So let me see: Membership First used parliamentary rules against the SAG National Majority. Then the SAG National Majority used the "written assent" legal maneuver against Membership First. Then Membership First goes to L.A. Superior Court for a TRO against that written assent. And now the SAG National Majority moves to circumvent any TRO. And on, and on...
Interim NED David White on Tuesday night called for the special video conference meeting of the National Board for this coming Sunday from 9AM to 2PM (PST) in the James Cagney Room in Hollywood and the Leon Janney Board Room in New York:
"No call-ins will be permitted at this meeting. All members will participate in Los Angeles or New York. Information for designating alternates and instructions for RBD members to make changes to their travel arrangements will be forwarded tomorrow morning. As a reminder, please note that since this meeting will be held by video conference, a National Director may be replaced by any Alternate National Director for only one continuous period of time during any one day. This meeting shall be considered a separate meeting from the Joint Board meeting scheduled for Saturday, February 7th. Also, in accordance with the replacement policy approved at the National Board meeting in April 2004, requests for alternates must be completed and confirmed no later than 5 p.m. on the last business day prior to the commencement of that meeting. This means that requests must be received no later than 5 p.m. on Friday, February 6th. (IMPORTANT NOTE: INSTRUCTIONS FOR DESIGNATING ALTERNATES FOR THIS MEETING WILL BE FORWARDED TO YOUR ATTENTION TOMORROW MORNING.)
Meanwhile, Scott Wilson and David Clennon are in this "SAG Coup" protest video from the group KeepSAGRelevant opposing the SAG National Majority:
- Judge Nixes TRO On Technicality But MF Will Refile For Thursday Hearing
- SAG vs SAG: Who's Suing Whom Today
- AMPTP/SAG Talks Tomorrow Postponed: SAG Goes To Court Tuesday Over Rosenberg And Johnson Try For Injunction To Overturn Written Assent
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Regarding the video…
Dave Clennon lost me right at the end when he said he wouldn’t work under the new proposed contract that the task force negotiates with the AMPTP (eventhough he doesn’t know what the improvements will be yet). However, that was not the moment he lost me. He lost me when instead of saying he would refuse to work, he instead states he would be willing to continue to work under the old contract!!! He cleary doesn’t believe in his own fight – because the current contract lacks the move over residuals he says are so vital – but he would be willing to work under those terms.
Sorry Dave, but if you truly believe in the argument you are making – Then you need to come out firm and say YOU WILL NOT WORK UNDER ANY CONTRACT THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE BENEFITS YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR!!!
It’s so reassuring to me, as one who has been arguing for a fair deal for actors, to see two of the best actors in the business, Scott Wilson and Dave Clennon, standing up, explaining in detail why this is such an outrage, and calling out the high profile actors by name, and publicly telling them they are selling out the next generation of actors for the first time in the history of the guild.
All those stars will suffer the contempt of their fellow actors for the rest of their careers, and rightfully so, given their aid and comfort to the AMPTP and UFS/NY/RBD.
This is the standing ground – right here, right now. You can’t lay it out any more clearly than these two brave spokesman have done.
What is happening at SAG is shameful. The state judge, on Thursday, has the fate of the guild in his or her hands. If the ruling is against the plaintiffs: Rosenberg, Johnson, McCord and Ladd, and this farce of a coup is allowed to stand, the Screen Actors Guild will capitulate to the biggest power grab by the producers in the history of the guild, and be on the road to extinction through merger with AFTRA.
I think, despite the frustrations, the rage, the bitterness, the interminable delays that have been caused by the active insurgency of UFS/NY/RBD to gut support for a Strike Authorization Vote, which is, and has always been the only possible way to either force the producers to give us a fair deal, or force us to strike – either option, has been a betrayal of the Guild, its membership, and all the men and women who fought and sacrificed to achieve and keep and improve upon the benefits we enjoy today.
It dishonors them, it dishonors us, and they must be stopped.
Every person in the entertainment industry knows that Membership First – the faction that includes the Gang of Four, Doug Allen, and all of their supporters on this comment board – has been in complete control of the SAG negotiating process since before it even began. They could have at ANY TIME sent out a contract or a strike authorization referendum to the members and THEY CHOSE NOT TO. Now it is time for the nonsense to stop and for the miscreants to go home and leave the workings of the guild to the adult faction.
stop everything!
newman
Dave Clennon lost me right at the end when he said he wouldn’t work under the new proposed contract that the task force negotiates with the AMPTP (eventhough he doesn’t know what the improvements will be yet).
Presumably none, since that’s kind of the point here.
The new PTB don’t think any significant concessions can be achieved, they just want to..well, nobody really seems to know. They can’t say that “we just want to go back to work” since they’ve been working all this time.
I guess they just want this to be over with, would rather get back to acting than have this fight with the studios right now. My thing is, if they don’t want that fight, then why don’t they just mind their own business? These people say they detest the politics of it, yet aren’t merely knee-deep in it, they run the political sideshow now.
They fight tooth and nail to be as deep in this as they could possibly be.
I do agree that this whole thing has been bungled. SAG should have never waited this long to get the strike auth vote. It was clear from back in January of last year that SAG was never going to get a concession without a strike just like the WGA didn’t so there was nothing to gain from not going for the guns early, back when there might have been enough support to get the votes and before the entire depth of our economic problems were truly known.
Even if the strike would have failed, at least the fight would be about something of substance like that instead of all this meta-bullshit.
If WGA pulled the trigger too soon (I don’t think that they did personally, since it worked and the support was overwhelming) then SAG pulled it way, way too late.
to “Dave is all talk no substance”: Dave and Scott put there name where their mouth is. Who the fuck are you. You’re not even an actor, just some moron with the power of a key board. These guys are real actors. Look at them and see what it means to be a real actor. To consistantly make a living your whole life, not by becoming a huge star with a 10-20 million dollar payday but by consistantly doing good work. Auditioning for nearly every job and getting the part. Lost you? Good, get lost-
A “coup” by the majority, using provisions in the constitution.
Methinks they don’t really know what the word means.
Matt,
Do you REALLY think if the judge does grant the TRO request that this will be the END?? It won’t end it. This infighting will NEVER end! Here’s one way it plays:
1) TRO granted
2) National Board meets and forces the vote – Doug Allen out, Task Force in
3) MF fights any attempt at ratifying a contract no matter what it contains
4) Contract defeated
5) No possible Strike Authorization because MF will work against it because they aren’t in the drivers seat
6) Limbo
Or maybe
1) TRO Denied
2) MF fights any attempt at ratifying a contract no matter what it contains
3) Contract defeated
4) No possible Strike Authorization because MF will work against it because they aren’t in the drivers seat
5) Limbo
Or maybe
1) TRO granted
2) National Majority unable to pass changes from the Majority Assent leaving MF in charge of negotiations
3) MF attempts to get a SAV but is fought by national majority
4) SAV defeated
5) Limbo
OR possibly
1) TRO granted
2) National Majority unable to pass changes from the Majority Assent leaving MF in charge of negotiations
3) MF allows a vote on the contract but is fought by National Majority
4) Contract is not ratified
5) MF then attempts a SAV that is fought by National Majority
6) SAV defeated
7) Limbo
Or here’s a rosy one:
1) TRO granted
2) National Majority unable to pass changes from the Majority Assent leaving MF in charge of negotiations
3) MF allows a vote on the contract
4) Contract IS ratified
5) We get stuck with the very contract you are fighting against.
I could go on and on but there is absolutely NO SCENARIO that I can think of where we can really win because we have no clout because we are fighting each other rather than the AMPTP!.
You may think there is a chance of a SAV getting passed, but I GUARANTEE there isn’t a chance in hell of getting 75% of the membership on board no matter WHO IS AT THE HELM.
And any contract up for ratification will have equal chances of passing vs. failing by a slim margin. It’s a crap shoot.
WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING TO GET EVERYONE BEHIND SOMETHING!!!!
The vid is a little long, but very compelling and cogent. And it seriously made me despise Damon, Clooney, Field and those other clowns. I encourage everyone to give it a look.
Dave Clennon is absolutely right about what will happen next. The Companies will offer the same turd they’ve been serving up, perhaps with a little powdered sugar, as Dave amusingly described it.
And I think SAG members will probably accept it.
But if that happens, don’t despair, actors: Just get your shit together for the next negotiation. Do what you should have done three years ago: (1) Fix the AFTRA thing; (2) Organize your membership.
The reason the “stars” could get over on your leadership and arrange the so-called “coup” is that there was no broad-based support for the leadership among rank-and-file members. You MUST create a unified membership that no douchebag “star” can break. The Writers Guild did it (although they are a much smaller membership), and you can do it, too.
So fix these two things, and see you in a couple of years at the negotiating table. The writers will be right there by your side.
The chance of the judge granting a TRO on Thursday is absolutely nil. Even if there were a chance of success on the merits, which is highly unlikely, the judge is going to stay that he is not going to grant a TRO in a matter of this magnitude on ex parte notice (and allow Membership First to bring a motion on regular notice)
Very well said, and I agree, Matt Mulhern.
The video: One minute the fault is entirely that of the NY board or the regional boards. Scott and Dave Clennon say they don’t represent the Hollywood actors wishes. The next minute they are attacking high profile stars who are very much connected with Hollywood. So here you have two actors who fiercely believe in what they are saying but to make their point, they rely on very divisive statements, hate-mongering and fear tactics. This is what so many people are tired of and what gave rise to changes on the board to begin with. The same things that they accuse the current majority of are the very things they themselves have been doing for months. Dave Clennon loves to call people who disagree with him “termites”, yet who keeps eating away at the foundations of this guild day after day after day with this kind of propoanda and hate-filled rhetoric? This is how you engender support, Dave? I don’t think anyone is advocating that we have to give up residuals or not be treated fairly. What many of object to is the WAY this is being done. And this video is just further proof of the extent to which some individuals are willing to go..no matter how destructive it may be to the very thing they claim to want to save.
Scott and Dave are heroes. Not the “Heroes” at NBC.com, but he kind of hero that is selflessly working to protect the health care for children of union members.
To “dave is all talk and no substance”…
I don’t want to put words in Dave Clennon’s mouth but I think he’d rather work under the old deal because it has not capitulated on some very important points.
Mr. Clennon might think move over rights with chump change residuals pale in comparison to –
Union coverage for every actor who speaks a line on any AMPTP set,Some form of residuals for new Media(even if they ramp up over time, or by budget), Clip consent with no ability to opt out, no forced product integration,retaining force majeure, and other issues.
I know the issues I listed are more important to me than the lousy rate that has been negotiated for move over.
I’m not saying having a move over agreement isn’t a good thing, I’m saying it’s not the most important thing, and it’s not enough to give up all the other stuff.
I think Mr. Clennon might agree with me.
The TRO needs to be issued against the petulant over-paid two-year-olds who seem fard more interested in scoring points and being right than getting the Actors they claim to represent and care so deeply about a good – and long overdue – deal.
Ya think you’re going to received contributions to health and pension DURING a strike? The rest of sure as hell won’t either. Crappy argument.
I think the rest of us non-sag people who work in the film and tv industries should file a class action suit against SAG, Alan Rosenberg, Doug Allen and the rest of them for OUR lost wages, for our lost houses, for OUR mental strife and suffering ALL caused by work slow-down because they won’t sign a god damn deal.
They keep saying they’ll be losing money with this deal. What about all the friggin’ money they’re losing because of the slow down. What about all the money we’re losing because of the slowdown. What about ALL THE MONEY WE WOULD ALL LOSE NOT WORKING DURING A STRIKE!
Sign a damn deal and get this town back to work. Enough is ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed with Scott and Dave. Completely. I can live, and live with myself, under this “slow death” virtual lockout until something gives. And part of the equation right now of what’s “giving” is that the 2009 and 2010 film rosters are revealing themselves as garbage that will cause heads to roll at studios once the “ghost release rosters” decimate box office returns. I couldn’t live with myself signing anything resembling the current POS on the table (which UFS doesn’t want us to vote on, period).
Voting up that POS offer would be like taking a bullet to cure a lingering cold.
Nikki
At what time was this Special Meeting called & who called it?
Reason I ask is because the SAG Constitution would have to be followed for this meeting to count as the exact injunctive relief the plaintiffs are seeking.
Your reporting has been head & shoulders above the rest. Keep up the good work.
These cry babies make me sick. The entitlement is absolutely stunning.
Why are people talking about a contract instead voting on a contract????
BLAH… BLAH …. BLAH ….
Let them get a better deal and then we vote. If the deal still sucks it does not pass. I am so tired of the posturing. It’s so boring !!!!
I am so sick of people sandbagging our Union! The whole point of it is to stick together so we can all benefit, not undermine our standings. The deal offered is BAD.
Let the people who were elected to their job, and then feel free to start infighting again for the next election.
I also resent celebs who haven’t worked for scale in since the 80’s telling working actors that this is a fair deal.
They speak the Truth.
Sterling says “I couldn’t live with myself signing anything resembling the current POS on the table (which UFS doesn’t want us to vote on, period).”
I assume you have been reading this board for awhile now. The offer has been on the table and UNCHANGED for months and months. MF has NOT ALLOWED A VOTE on it. Nor has MF allowed a STRIKE AUHTORIZATION VOTE.
Then Doug Allen suddenly changed his mind and now it’s UFS who doesn’t want us to vote. Okay, I get it.
Can we just stop pointing fingers? Can’t we work toward a COMMON GOAL?
Things can be spun in any direction, but unless we get together as SAG USA and ALL OUR MEMBERS CAN BE UNITED, we will be slowly strangled to death.
Dave Clennon has valid points about New Media, and this comes from what happened with DVDs. But if I remember correctly DGA and WGA have a “favored nation” clause in their contracts, if SAG gets a better deal on New Media, then those increases are extended to the other 2 unions. It’s most likely the reason the AMPTP won’t give in on New Media. Dave’s remarks about a “sugar coated” contract offer by the new neg team, isn’t valid…for whatever reason the AMPTP and Alan & Allen went head first into a brick wall.
I don’t understand why you don’t want to give this new team a chance to come up with a better contract for SAG members. If the membership hates it, they will vote it down. This seems to be a war between MF & U4S, and the only victims are the membership. Scott and Dave claim that this is being railroaded by NY people and it’s Hollywoods fight; is wrong. Actors live in and outside of Hollywood, fly in, fly out. It’s the business (for now) that’s here, all else is fluid. Example: Matt lives in NY, but will fly to LA for a job, then go back to NY…maybe for some theatre work.
Dave’s comments about Amy Brenneman are wrong, he gives her too much power, he said because of her… 5 U4S seats were won on the board. She ran on what she believed was best for SAG and the membership voted for the new board members. The membership voted.
Actors come in and audition for parts on the 2 shows that I work on, they are all so earnest and treated with respect by everyone, but there is a “dear in the headlight” look in their eyes.. your infighting is the reason…if your board members on both sides don’t get their act together, you will destroy your union.
“Look! Powdered sugar. Don’t smell it, vote for it.”
ROTFLMFAO!!!!
Who says actors can’t write, that was brilliant!
I don’t believe that it’s all MF’s fault that a vote has not been taken on either the contract or the SAV. I seem to recall a lot of stragetical moves and arguments by UFS to keep those from happening over the last seven months.
Speaking of stragetical moves, if UFS needed to go to court to get a TRO against an action they thought was underhanded and possibly against the established rules, I doubt there would be any hestitation on their part to do so and find out if they had a case.
I say we need to take a vote on *either* issue, contract or SAV, as soon as possible. If that vote goes in favor of those with a different opinion than those who I side with, fine. Time for the next step. Then the next. But we need to define what the end of the argument is going to look like. Giving in to rollbacks and giving up on actors for years to come? Having hope that the AMPTP will be more understanding of our position during the next negotiations?
This problem we’re dealing with isn’t only a SAG vs SAG deal. The AMPTP is as much to blame for the problem being dragged out this long. They just have the freedom to sit back and look like they’re not in the fight. And as long as there is a faction of SAG willing to be their accomplices, we’re not united as a union standing up for the common good.
Put all actors in SAG, give SAG a production arm and give all SAG members the option to be producers. Not only is the business changing in terms of payment and delivery, the way content is being produced is changing. Get some Red Cameras and let everybody make the good projects they can’t get made the traditional way. Finance actor-filmmakers. Why can’t SAG also be a studio? Nothing prohibits it legally, right? Or so I was told …
[FULL DISCLOSURE: I have no dog in this fight. I'm looking at it from a Wall St./analyst/observer point.]
There are some factors that are simply overlooked as both factions engage in vitriol and pathological navel-gazing.
1- We are undergoing a major economic crisis, possibly the deepest recession since the Depression and definitely the worst in a generation. It is illogical and counterproductive to not take this into consideration. Greater economic conditions cannot be discounted.
2- The longer the SAG infighting extravaganza continues, the worse the deal that will be approved in the long haul. Napoleon said many decades ago: “Never interfere with the enemy when he is in the process of committing suicide.” The AMPTP is wise to stand back and watch SAG shred itself, because their bargaining position is strengthened with a demoralized SAG.
Put another way: Did it anger or please the AMPTP to learn a suit had been filed, seeking an injunction on the written assent?
3- The suicidal squabbles over fiefdoms within SAG will eventually bleed it dry and indicate to any impartial observer that not a one of them is even remotely aware of what a Pyrrhic victory is. This is evident by the fact each side is more interested in squashing the other side than in actually getting a deal signed. Had the parties involved REALLY cared about the union and those it allegedly represents, there would have been a serious, internal move to reconciliation.
(Here’s a good tip: When you hear the mantra “You CAN’T talk sense to those people over at ____! They’re ______ [insert pejorative of choice]!” You know that coming together, happy-clappy Kumbaya moment is a loooooong time away.)
In sum, it is better at this point for the membership of one faction to yield to the other regardless of the merits of their position real or perceived and begin progressing to a resolution which, because of the circus hat has preceded it will be, at best, a mildly crummy deal for SAG.
Just my dispassionate two cents.
Today I was having lunch at a restaurant in W. Hollywood and saw two former SAG board members. I introduced myself and asked if I could get their take on what is going on currently at the guild. They both admitted to being MF supporters. After a lot of going back and forth, I asked them what they thought about the Rosenberg/Johnson lawsuit. They agreed with the lawsuit. They were hesitant to predict how successful it’ll be but they did have a very interesting take on the emergency board meeting for this Sunday. They think that all will be “fixed”. The board, with it’s slim majority, will “fire Doug” once again, replace the negotiating committee with this ridiculous task force, maybe go a little easy on the “Gag Order”. But they thought the big ticket items to be voted down by the board on Sunday will be the SAV and the two core issues that had to be secured during negotiations if the board was to endorse the AMTPT’s offer. (according to the Oct. 2008 national board motion that was approved) Those core issues are complete jurisdiction in new media and residuals for all product made for new media. Gone. Goodbye. If that’s true, WOW. Thanks UFS/NY/RBD. Thanks a lot.
Union Advocate: I don’t know who these former board members you talked to were, but do not lose faith. They are painting a dire picture for sure, but what is going on right now will NOT harm but preserve our union in the end, I promise you. We have seen a period of bad leadership..whether some on here agree with that or not. But our union itself will prevail and we WILL get decent wages. If we don’t we will rise up in time, only with our act together. What we cannot do right now is make such a move when all our leadership does is attack a sister union or insist that it be their way or the highway. This is NOT the way to a brighter future. It is dark right now, I grant you that, but there will be light at the end of this tunnel and those who perpetuate fear will be brought into the light of day. Have faith and continue to believe in our union…Many of us are doing the same.
@ Sunny:
Hey, you knew the risks of not working when you took the job. I wouldn’t hold your breath on SAG taking a shit deal to satisfy an asshole who clearly doesn’t give a damn about THEIR well-being.
Suck it up. No actor cares enough about YOU to kill their own future. You’re insane to think otherwise.
Are We There Yet — Screw the sister union BS. AFTRA is no sister of SAG — all that sister wants to do is screw us so that we will have to merge with her whorey ass. I don’t know how anyone can have respect for a union/AFTRA that has repeatedly sold us down the river and stabs us in the back every time we work under one of their inferior contracts — crazy that some people still defend her(AFTRA), I don’t get it.
A brighter future will happen when all ACTORS are in one UNION — THE SCREEN ACTORS GUILD.
To “are we there yet”, isn’t it the same from both sides, each is saying, “My way or the highway”? Isn’t that what the written assent is about, forcing their way?
Why do you call it a sister union, when it took work away from SAG by giving a cheaper deal to the cable companies? Wouldn’t you be mad if your sister sipped your whiskey and filled the bottle up with water?
What gives you faith that something magical will happen in three years? Will the stars suddenly stand up for the middle class actor, if there are any left? What stars will be left in three years? Maybe they will be back to middle class actors, like a lot of them are not making the big money they used to. Where will the economy be? Nobody knows what’s coming. It sounds like you want to put the hard stuff off to another day, and you just want to make as much money as you can now, and to heck with how the rest can’t even make it right now. And they sure won’t be able to make it if they take an offer that takes stuff away from them.
It sounds like nobody wants to be labeled selfish, so they put on the airs like they care about the town and keeping everyone working, but they really only want to keep their own job they have now, and to heck with everyone else.
I heard someone say that some people in the union shouldn’t vote. That doesn’t seem right. If you are a member of a union, you should be able to vote. That’s one reason to pay your dues. And get protections. And feel that someone has your back. I don’t think the people who want to give in to the bosses are watching their brother’s OR their sister’s backs. They are just watching their own pocketbook.
Introducing a new concept:
MONEY IS GOOD FOR YOU
If the “majority” tries to convice you otherwise, THEY’RE WRONG.
Would you just put the contract to vote! Politics and infighting have just completely screwed your leverage. You look like a bunch of monkeys in-fighting. You should be embarrassed and accountable for everything. You cant blame the producers for the internal debacle that exists and the core root to this dragging on..
You know..I moved out here in ‘94..it’s been a long road. I’ve gone from serious high’s(being in an academy-award winning film) to low- low-s(being evicted from my apt)..been treated with great respect and, absolute scorn and ridicule..seen a lot..but I’ve never seen anything like this. The people in this industry, the people who have a lot of say about whether, when, where, and how I work, whether I can make a living at that work, are absolute, total buffoons..our union is like a play-doh, lego union, run by people who’s only goal is to be king of the hasbro sandbox. Does everyone here think you LIVE in a movie? I honestly don’t know how SAG could fuck up any more than they have..is it POSSIBLE to fuck up more? is there anything more fucking up left? or did you do it all? the AMPTP are scumbags, but they’re unified scumbags, which is why they won this. I take some personal responsibility; early on, I though working actors voice/UFS were doing a good thing, I was wrong. Backstabbery and disunity were the goal from the beginning with THAT crew. You guys have figured out they’re on the trojan horse tip, right? because, this shit is right out of “Art of War”..and it worked perfectly. If we take the shit deal, and merge with AFTRA, watch how much work those fools will start getting..or, maybe they were promised work that won’t actually happen, because AMPTP will turn on them too, soon as they get what they want..then maybe the light bulb will start going off in some of your minds..add to that the allen’s general fuck-uppery and you have..this POS situation. I tell you what: every person in this industry who has ever been presented to me as someone to be listened to and trusted? fuck that. Each and every person here will lie, cheat and steal to get that pot of gold. I’m disgusted with the lot of you, and with myself for participating. fuck, I just wanted to act… not to have to wallow in the mud with scumbags every day of my life.
To Scott and nobody knows what’s coming? I respect that you have differing opinions. I hope you can respect that in my and many other people’s opinions, MF started the fight with AFTRA. NOT SAG but MF acting as SAG. And they put 44,000 dual card holders smack in the middle of it. Regardless of what you think of the deal or otherwise, it was not AFTRA that started recklessly throwing their weight around to start with. That doesn’t mean they don’t have some work to do to help repair things but they have not acted nearly as destructively towards a sense of teamwork between the two organizations. And yes, I have great faith that these unions can solve their issues and get back on track once the leadership issues at SAG are solved. And I say that regardless of whether there is ever a merger or not. I do trust this will happen and should happen. As far as giving in to the bosses, who’s advocating that? Yet at the end of the day they need us and we need them. There’s a way to do things and this is not the way. That’s all I’m saying. We can live to fight another day. Under the current circumstances, we have no leverage and will not gain anything. And we will find ourselves with little support for our efforts.
Scott, you nailed it. All actors under SAG, or we’ll have crappy low or no-residual contracts for the rest of our lives.
To Scott:
It sounds like you’re angry at AFTRA. But stand back a moment, aren’t they starting to look…genius? Simply by avoiding getting themselves in bed with a bipolar crazy person (SAG) they have completely reinvigorated their business and will likely completely take over television in the next few seasons. TELEVISION. You know, that thing that employs hundreds of actors and employs them far more consistently than film.
So we not only screwed the pooch on negotiating with AFTRA, we screwed the pooch on being able to cover digital production which is, guess what, the future of our business. Trust me, there are discussions happening right now about how the AFTRA jurisdiction could be extended to feature work done with digital equipment.
Why on earth would they want to merge with us NOW? What possible reason? Now take another step back…look at what’s happened over the last 8 months (8 months!). What other union is going to want to negotiate with us? Not only have we lost television, but we have lost the respect and/or interest of every other guild in this town.
So Scott, all I’m sayin is, it’s okay to be angry, as long as you keep your AFTRA membership is up to date.
The VOguy is right. This is a Trojan Horse scenario. Also divide and conquer. And it fits in perfectly with the long history of Hollywood producers and movie studios to have a compliant work force. That’s why they buy people off, cut backroom deals, and bust “real” unions.
Hollywood hasn’t changed at all in 70 years. The tactics are “smoother” but still just as tough. No more water hoses and police beating up people. Now it’s just shutdowns and economic starvation to gain submission.
The unions will be compliant or the people will not get work. That’s the bottom line. And that’s exactly how it will play out.
It’s a shame that there are so many fools who think they’ll be find afterward because they were “reasonable.” All are disposable. Just watch.
love’s labors lost — You are fucking hilarious!! “Aren’t they starting to look … genius?” Yes, if your idea of GENIUS is fucking over your UNION’S membership with an inferior contract!!! And Yes from an AMPTP point of view getting the best deal out of ACTORS for cheap. But from an ACTORS point view NO they don’t look Genius — they look like backstabbing scumbags that will do anything to keep their sinking ship a float at the expense of their membership. AFTRA’S contracts for Television that you so proudly speak of are disgusting and are very hurtful to our future in this business as ACTORS. I don’t think it’s Genius, funny or any other way you so cleverly want to spin it!! It’s fucking disgusting. So you and ARE WE THERE YET can defend them all you want, but I will be speaking the TRUTH!!
And the truth is one Actors union — THE SCREEN ACTORS GUILD!!! A union that won’t sell us down the river for their own gains. A union that has always fought the good fight for Actors.
And YES I’m ANGRY and I’m MAD as hell and I’m not going to be silent about it anymore.
I’m out of here — I’m going to meet Scott Wilson and Dave Clennon in front of SAG and work out some of this anger . . . lol.
PEACE!!!
Scott: Read my words again. I am neither defending nor taking any position on AFTRA other than to make an observation on what I feel is a failure of leadership at SAG. You don’t agree. Got it. Go join Scott and Dave. Knock yourself out. Rave away, it is your right, just as it is mine (and others) to disagree.
Helen: calling so many of us “fools” makes me think of Dick Cheney. Yesterday he said (in referring to the Obama administration) that to even attempt to be civil with these Middle Eastern “terrorists” makes us vulnerable and weak as puppy dogs. All I can say to that line of reasoning is, look where it got Dick Cheney. Most of America now wants us the hell out of that war because of the WAY it’s been handled. You don’t have to hit someone with a two by four to get their attention. You can take a higher ground and still maintain your strength. You are much more likely to gain supporters that way as well. Seriously, completely demonizing the very people we are going to end up having to work for —- THAT is foolish. The reason that it hasn’t changed much in 70 years is that when it comes down to it, we ALL must be compliant and compromise. Why? Because we all need each other. Producers and actors alike. I understand you don’t agree with that, but regardlesss, that is how many of us feel. Like Scott, however, I respect your right to have your own opinion. Let us hope that our common goal of preserving our union will be what speaks loudest in the end.
Hey – Are We There Yet? -
Where is the compromise from the producers side? We’ve seen nothing from them for eight months, since this whole thing started. I have commented before in favor of taking the high road and being reasonable. In so doing, you may get some supporters from our divided ranks who appreciate the effort to be civil. But for that to really have effect in the negotiation realm, the other side has to be willing to meet you in the middle.
You’re right, that to demonize the people who hold the purse strings in our business is not smart. However, if you acquiese to their every whim, you are also giving up control over your own destiny. There comes a time when my dog just doesn’t want to bring the ball back to me anymore, even though I have the little snacks in my pocket. He knows when he’s had enough of running in circles.
to Scott:
“Are We There Yet?” said it better than I could. My point isn’t one of support for AFTRA, merely pointing out the obvious: unlike in the past, if you’re gonna work in TV you’re gonna to have to be an AFTRA member.
If you don’t like that then stop supporting the SAG leadership that made that happen. Because they did and it’s the one thing that MF supporters do not want to talk about.
As for your plan of picketing SAG, I’m all for it. Just wear a good coat. It’s raining out there.
To ‘AWTY’…
These comments have gotten a bit out of hand(not from you, necessarily), so I really don’t want to perpetuate the vile responses.
But in your comments re: who started the fight between SAG and AFTRA, aren’t you forgetting that AFTRA stabbed SAG in the back in the first place by splitting off and negotiating separately with the AMPTP? That they defaulted on “Rule 1″ (or whatever it was called)? AFTRA’s excuse for reneging on that pact was that SAG had attempted to poach an AFTRA soap opera (which was proven completely false). SAG my have responded poorly, but this impasse with AFTRA was absolutely precipitated by AFTRA.
“Are We There Yet” is a total jerk-off. But I’m gonna assume that’s on account of his ignorance and not stupidity. At least he could learn a thing or two here. Most of everyone, including SAG members, don’t realize that all this dissension is on account of AFTRA’s lack of revenue and nothing but. They are only making money on paper at this point. They owe a butt load of money to E.R.I.S.A. (look it up, educate yourselves), and if monies aren’t amassed soon, the I.R.S. will take it from their vested members’ pensions. That’s why they undercut SAG and that’s why they are continuing to fight tooth and nail to overthrow the powers at SAG. They want to take SAG down to save AFTRA. It’s the worst kind of thing that could happen to all actors. It was done so that news reporters and dj’s wouldn’t lose their pensions and they did it by allowing those reporters to vote away actors rights. That’s also why the media calls these new idiots “moderates” because of course you know which side of the bread their butter is on. Is it right that AFTRA vested members should possibly kiss their pensions goodbye? No! But blame that on the idiots who run AFTRA. Don’t make SAG members the scapegoat. AFTRA wants everyone to believe it all happened because SAG wouldn’t share the wealth. When in actuality, it’s because AFTRA is a union that should have folded years ago … or at least given up their actors to be covered only by SAG. We can’t have 2 actors’ unions to cover film and television and allow them to continue with their territorial pissings. We must be under the same roof. But the answer isn’t to merge, and it never was. (AFTRA only wanted that in the past to yet again cling to SAG’s revenue to save their own asses.) The answer is for AFTRA to give up the ghost already and let it become a thing of the past. That’s what I believe should happen to them for filing for (a.k.a. begging for) a 20+ year extension from E.R.I.S.A. to pay back monies they obviously do not have. If you’re drowning in an ocean, you don’t use the closest person as your own personal flotation device which is exactly what AFTRA is attempting to do with SAG. Plain and simple, they’re drowning and they know it and so does SAG. Let them drown. Not SAG’s fault.
P.S. Be sure to thank another jerk-off named Richard Verrier of the Los Angeles Times for conveniently keeping this very major detail out of his lousey excuse for reporting. But what can you expect from a “reporter” from the Times? They’re going bankrupt, too. So it’s no wonder he’d side with the union that’s going bust. Just call that they Law of Attraction.
To “You could learn a thing or 2 from me”…you lost me at the first sentence. It seems that you are one of those types that whenever anyone disagrees with you, you are going to resort to name calling and insults right off. The only thing I “learned” from you is that you cannot tolerate dissent of any kind. In which case, you might want to think about moving to a country that is less democratic. Frankly, I ignored everything you wrote after the way you started. Skimmed right past it. It no longer mattered to me what you had to say…I still respect your right to have your opinion. But is that how you expect to rally people to your point of view? This kind of bully behavior is exactly what has turned so many of us off. Don’t you get it? Does that help our union?
AWTY seems perturbed that others here seem to know more than he does. Odd how he can lash out when someone enlightens him. Must be a UFS supporter because anyone who voted for UFS just took SAG on a sharp plummet down. Those douches will learn in one year’s time what their ignorance did and I don’t blame You Could Learn for pointing that out. I wouldn’t call AWTY a jerk-off. I’d call him naive.
If AWTY would be bothered to read the previous poster’s comments, he’d learn what more than most of us weren’t privy to know about what goes on behind closed doors. They should make AFTRA disclose all their earnings and losses to their members to see what’s really up. That’s a sick story about their IRS mess.
Hey Pete..if you’ve been following these posts for months and contributing to them as I have, you’d know that I am very up on things. And I would hardly call my responses “lashing out”. Comments like that just give all that much more support to those who attempt to disagree with you respectfully. As far as I am concerned, it is hardly naive to resist blindly following bad leadership down a destructive path and then blaming it on someone else (like AFTRA) when it blows up in their face. It would be great if you could just forget your hatred of AFTRA (or the producers) for a moment. Look at MF’s actions in and of themselves and ask yourself what is bringing about the current changes in the first place. Is it ALL the other guy’s fault? If you really think so, what further is there to discuss? We simply must agree to disagree.
AW dude – AFTRA is bankrupt. It IS their fault. And yes you’re a douche.
Lina…
And..on that note…time to move on from this thread…sorry you feel that way.
I have been out there since the second day Scott Wilson was out there. That is 3 weeks now. Honesty, integrity, dignity and laborers pay is what is being placed on the line. The effects of a poor contract would seem to lead to a loss for many other departments of our industry if the actor’s contract is faulted it will only lead to the loss of other people’s jobs in our industry. Think of all the downsizing that would take place. From actors to make up people, wardrobe to carpenters, set designers to technicians. Reality is what we are dealing with not fables. Scott Wilson has clout. None of us have to do this stand up for Screen Actor’s Guild, but on the other hand we do if we are members. What do you want to work for as a member of SAG? Please come out and support your guild.