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Self-described SAG "middle-class actor" John Cygan, who maintains he doesn't belong to any of the infighting Guild factions, breaks down the AFTRA contract vis a vis SAG:
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Tremendously insightful. So glad to see someone simply giving the facts and doing a reality check…
That was amazing. I’m not an actor, I’m a director and I truly didn’t understand what exactly is going on, until I just saw this clip.
Even if it means I will lose work, I hope SAG doesn’t sign this. A-list actors should be ashamed of themselves. Stick up for your fellow actors who can’t afford to live in Malibu!
Wow!! John did a fantastic job of putting it all out there simply, and concisely. I’m forwarding this to all my actor friends asap! As a former member of SAG and a current member of WGA – I hope SAG will finally pull together and make the smart choice for ACTORS. I think the ousted leadership got totally screwed, and i hope John’s video can open some eyes!
What I don’t understand is why I am supposed to believe that basically broadcast television is going to be going away immediately and everything will be “webisodes” right away when the country can’t even get the current broadcast stations switched over on schedule to digital despite years of notice and planning. Apparently a significant percentage of Americans still use rabbit ears to get their television, and I am supposed to believe that they are months away from hooking their computers to their televisions?
Bravo.
Wow! Bravo! Thanks for posting, Nikki. This guy breaks it down perfectly in such a straightforward, no-nonsense way. I hope this exposes the AFTRA faction for what it appears to be…
great video!
thank you doug allen, alan rosenberg, anne-marie johnson, kent mccord … people don’t realize what skilled and experienced negotiators these unionists are, and what a wealth of knowledge and history they bring to the table. they’re tough, they’re informed, and they’ve been fighting against this horrible deal on behalf of the middle class actor.
and, yes, mike d, you are supposed to understand that tv is going away. hulu is replacing reruns. new shows will be debuting online. people may still watch on their tv’s, but they’ll be doing so through an internet converter box.
The only problem is that Cygan is totally wrong about the contract. Either he doesn’t understand it or can’t do arithmetic or is intentionally misleading people.
What part of the caps doesn’t he get? What part of the no professional performer limitation is a mystery to him?
He may pretend to be not part of a faction, but he’s just spinning more MeFirst crap.
Great video. One thing that should be remembered is that many of those “A” list actors who are for the contract are producers who will make a fortune from the contract. They are only looking out for their interests. Continue to educate yourself on this sham.
Hey Mike D 40% of TV stations in the USA are switching to digital on schedule. MediaPost had a story on it this morning. Moreover MediaPost also had a blog/op-ed on how certain TV station managers are looking to dump being network affiliates and air cable programming instead. They figure if you can’t beat the cable ratings why not become cable affiliates? I bet these managers would kill for some of the more popular web series on places like YouTube, Strike.TV & Funny Or Die…they sure beat the audiences for the cheap reality crap the broadcast networks think will save them but that audiences & advertisers hate with a purple passion. Hell I think they’d do better with Hulu’s rerun content at this point. Point the camera at a monitor running Hulu & the audience is more likely to watch it than the dumbassery that passes for reality programming today.
But back to the original topic of this post:
This video is genius.
What I want to know is where are all the agents & managers crying over how they’ll be getting 10% of $100/day or worse $250/3 days from their clients? That’s a whopping $10-$25 an actor. You’re going to need a lot of clients all booking a lot of jobs to support yourself on that (and let’s not mention how much more it will take to support a family).
And if actors take $100 a day and work 10 hour days that’s $10 an hour. You can’t support a family on that. There are parts of the country where managing a fast food joint pays more (CA minimum wage is $8/hour, which is on par with the $250/3 days jobs).
Frankly the last thing this country needs is execs shedding more jobs and cutting the pay of the remaining workers up to 90% so they can get fat and lazy while the rest of us have to support the actors with increased taxes (social programs aren’t free) and/or compete with them for jobs outside of the entertainment business. I don’t mind being charitable to my fellow human beings or paying the government my fair share but not when some of the yokels running the companies into the ground take home tens of millions of dollars in pay (and avoid paying taxes as well as decent salaries to the talent above & below the line).
No more free rides for fat cats. The rest of us all deserve better.
This clip should win documentary award at Academy Awards….
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Nice. This guy breaks it down in a way that anyone can understand…if you don’t get it after that, then you just don’t want to get it. I think(and I include myself in this) we’ve all been spouting a lot of bullshit on this board..out of anger, frustration, and, frankly lack of knowledge, because everyone is lying to get people on their side. This guy just did what any one of us could have, and should have done from jumpstreet. The true cost of what AFTRA signed is plain as the nose on our faces. I’ve been generally critical of SAG’s handling on this situation, and, though some of the criticism heaped on them has some merit, they(we) were placed in an impossible situation by AMPTP, and AFTRA’S lapdog moves..so,maybe we should consider the fact that it was doug allen and alan rosenberg who had(have) it right..in any case, I’ll do what this guy did. stop listening to the bullshit, and see for myself.
I’m not an actor or in anyway related to the industry. I did come across this blog post that seems so incredibly relevant to the discussion of “webisodes”
http://boesky.blogspot.com/2008/12/microsoft-is-cable-part-three-edition.html
Brilliant!
Thank you John, well done. thank you Nikki for posting this.
Although things have gotten very out of hand, as John implies, we haven’t signed anything yet. There’s still hope. We must sign a contract that makes sense.
Mike? Didn’t you see Alec’s superbowl ad for hulu? C’mon. Where have you been? Go hang around some teenagers. They’re not watching TV. They’re watching the internet.
Oh, and correction. None of the star actors mentioned in this video are making five figures a week. No way. All get six figures. Plus a piece of the big pie.
The only point I need to make is that the proliferation of ‘web shows’ is NOT proportionate to the amount of new money entering the space. Meaning, AFTRA has signed a deal which allows their actors to participate in those shows if they so desire. Most of the shows have budgets of $1,000 – $3,000 a minute and can’t afford to pay more. If the show travels to another medium then residuals kick in as standard per that medium, i.e. television. So, they’re not really non-union, they’re a hybrid that allows union actors to take advantage of low budget web shows if they so desire. The point is, if SAG doesn’t agree to the sub $15k per minute exclusion then only AFTRA actors will be eligible for these shows. It won’t inherently force the budgets upward because the money doesn’t exist for that to happen.
With that said, there is a real takeaway in breaking down the minute by minute budget on an hourly basis. At $900k an hour that’s more expensive than some cable scripted hours. It could be interesting to drop the $15k per minute clause down to $5 – 8k per minute or something along those lines.
But excluding SAG actors from cheap internet productions will not force more money into those productions. It will just disallow any SAG members from working on those shows. Think of it like student films. By not allowing certain exclusions for student films, you’re not going drive student film budgets up, you’re just going to prevent your actors from participating.
With regard to the final point, about how everything will be a webisode in the future. Yea, without question television will be delivered via the internet very soon. But everyone here should understand that no one knows what that’s going to look like or how to define it in deal / legal terms. Hulu may become a pay cabler and operate like HBO or Showtime. It may continue to be solely ad supported. It may commission originals and it may not.
Whether in this deal or the next, my suggestion is that the language should be restricted to budget size rather than technology or distribution platform. Or clips vs. whole eps rather than internet or TV. Based on the previous SAG and AFTRA deals it should be obvious the language shouldn’t be tied to ever-changing technologies.
Finally, great video, made a lot of sense. But the thanking of Rosenberg and Allen though is not helpful. They universally and irreparably harmed SAG. It will be very hard to move the union back into an influential position in television and serious ground has been lost in the battle for jurisdiction over the web.
This dude and his video could single-handedly save SAG. Thank you for posting, Nikki. FANTASTIC.
So where exactly are the 4 pages of webisodes per day on Actors Access? I only see a few on the first page of the LA site and two of them are SAG webisodes.
New shows will be debuting online? Huh? Where are you getting your info. Maybe the stuff that major networks would never make….
TV is here to stay for a long, long, long while people. This is ideology is bogus. Just like people who believe movies on disc media for movies is going away in a couple years for sole internet delievery. Bogus bogus bogus.
Thank you for speaking your mind, John. I agree with you and I hope when and if we get a chance to vote on this “new deal” by the AMPTP we will vote it down.
Sigh… Let us vote on it already!
Mike D, really. Come on. All my friends and myself have either Apple TV or instant netflix through xbox 360. None of us have cable or dish anymore. On demand TV and movies through wireless converters is the now, webisodes and exclusive internet TV is five minutes away!
The Actor’s Access website has always been mostly non-union work. Breakdown Services is the site where most of the real industry work is cast.
If this media conversion isn’t happening for a couple years, why the fuss right now? Why not deal with that when it’s a reality? I think the pay is perfect for the quality of talent the viewers get to enjoy. However, if in fact residuals are going to be done away with then that is just wrong. I just know that my buddy (who is a nobody) just did a 30 second national spot and IS getting residuals.
If non-union should never be ok, where is the pa’s union? Those people work harder then anybody else in this whole industry yet get the shit end of everybody’s stick.
I’m confused; you guys don’t pay your own taxes? I feel no sympathy for you having to pay out of your pocket for such expenses. Welcome to the real world, jack-asses. If you guys want to go on strike, do it. This industry seems to only revolve around you “actors”.
I like the video. I don’t agree with thanking Rosenberg and Doug Allen. They had a long time to make the case as succinctly as John did here and were not able to persuade many people. Doesn’t that make them poor negotiators and ineffective?
Something needs to be cleared up that ALWAYS seems to be misrepresented whenever this is discussed, and I’m surprised so many people get it wrong -
The WGA and the DGA did NOT sign the same deal. People say “well, they were virtually identical”.
Do you know what the key difference was?
The difference is that in the DGA deal the internet is not union, and in the WGA deal it is.
That’s huge.
And since that’s a bit of an oversimplification, I’ll break it down for you: The DGA deal allowed a budget threshold for made for internet productions (which John mentions in the video above). This threshold is higher than nearly every webisode that has been made so far. Which essentially means that internet productions will rarely meet the threshold and will nearly always be non-union.
The studios wouldn’t budge on that threshold number after the DGA signed off on it, so what the WGA negotiated was “okay, you can have that number, but whenever a professional writer works on an internet production that number does not apply. When a professional writer works on it, it’s union. Period. And retroactively.”
See the difference? It’s essentially the difference between the internet being a union or a non-union place for writers. That’s what we won and it often gets lost in the fine print. John says in his video (and rightly so) that no union should ever agree that work be non-union. And we didn’t. Now, the fact that there are some other parts of our deal that aren’t great is another discussion, but people need to stop acting as if the WGA signed off on a non-union internet. If they were truly offering a version of our deal to SAG it would mean that anytime a SAG actor worked on a non-union webisode, it would become union. Feel free to look it up in our deal. And now you can call bullsh*t anytime someone says that SAG is being offered the same deal as the WGA.
Good video…one thought — There is NO way you can get around NOT Thanking Rosenberg and Allen, they are the main reason we didn’t sign this contract. Anyone else would have caved in and just taken the AFTRA deal!
These two Pioneers (Alan & Doug) are fighting the good fight and have taken a lot of heat because of it. I applaud them!!
If anyone has harmed SAG’s position in Television it’s AFTRA — they single handedly sold us Actor’s down the river and they must be held accountable. It’s interesting in your discussion about above you defend AFTRA’s actions and never hold them accountable for selling us off cheap. BTW – SAG already has a program for low budget internet content and it’s ALL UNION!
Keep educating yourselves people — the Truth will prevail! Great Video!
Hey Nikki – Thank you. I am really glad that you moved this to a main entry on your page. It’s a must see for everyone in SAG, and anyone who has an opinion one way or the other on this whole situation. John has taken thousands of words written over the last eight months and created a picture that speaks volumes. Thank you John for your effort.
@Mike D – You are supposed to believe this because it’s been a plan in the works for over a decade by the powers that be in the entertainment world. This plan is essentially global in scope and is going to allow the entertainment conglomerates to regain a greater control over what and how the public consumes their entertainment in the years to come. It will be shrouded in the freedom of self-expression a la youtube, but the major producers are using it to clamp down on the costs of production while being able to gain ultimate profits from an ever growing revenue generator.
We are at the crux of the digital convergence that I saw becoming reality when I worked as a media producer at a software company in 1999-2000. We were creating interactive spherical video and had talks and presentations to high level people at CBS, Turner, and many other interested parties who were looking at ways to take advantage of the burgeoning internet delivery mechanism. Then the dot bomb hit and everybody had to regroup. But the plans did not go away to make the convergence of your TV and computer happen.
There will always be the slow adopters of whatever technology comes along, people are still using rotary dial phones in some places, but you have to look at what the early adopters already have to see what will be commonplace in a few short years. Your observation about the switchover in the household is just a minor part of the whole equation.
This practice of webisodes is not going to go away and if we want to protect all the work that we do in all the crafts, makeup to grips to editing to actors and directors, we need to state our outrage and stake our position in regards to what the AMPTP is trying to get us to give up. And that is basically the future of this business and our ability to make a decent living from the industry.
“Finally, great video, made a lot of sense. But the thanking of Rosenberg and Allen though is not helpful. They universally and irreparably harmed SAG.”
Rosenberg and Allen aren’t the ones to blame for the damage done to SAG.
The infighting, bitching, whining and political power games between the factions within SAG, and the failure of the rest of SAG’s members to put at stop to it, is the reason it’s crippled.
SAG is broken. And every member of SAG is to blame.
You’ve all either helped to break SAG, or you’ve stood by and let others break it.
Thank you, John Cygan. Thanks, Nikki Finke. This is information we’ve been trying to get the membership to understand for MONTHS. And this video does it in a simple, strong, concise and persuasive manner.
Hopefully, my fellow SAG members will pay attention.
We stand together or we fall apart.
I hate to point it out to you all, but there is no way everyeone is just going to toss their tv’s and go buy new “internet ready” versions. I think the thing that people are missing when they talk about the fact that everyone they know has DVR’s, Apple TV, etc. that that we are all involved in this business daily so its part of our survival to watch our medium. Go to any non industry town and ask how many people watch Hulu or have DVRs. Country wide on 30% of the population has DVD’s currently and nielsen estimates that 5-6% of the population still uses bunny ears. Trust me internet on TV is long, long away! Research it yourselves!
Uhm… it’s all built on the fact that there are 100 projects A DAY? A DAY????!! And that 300 Actors A DAY are hired from webisodes????? Really??? Hell, any actor in LA knows that’s just impossible. THINK PEOPLE!
Guess what, that’s not even CLOSE. It’s a complete lie.
Look at the clip where he’s show “all the non-union webisodes”. Then look at the DATES. They span a couple of MONTHS and that’s ONE PAGE.
Fact – Actor Access had about 1 webisode a day for the last WEEK or so. And ONE WAS SAG. Now Casting had around 10 (if you count Internet as webisode so I’m being generous) and TWO WERE SAG. Odds are the was some overlap so you are looking at MAYBE one non-union webisode a day. Check it out yourself and you’ll see.
So, if you KNOW that his initial projection is off by about 98% (give him the benefit of the doubt) and that he LIED about it (I just can’t believe it’s an honest mistake), then the rest of his video is meaningless.
And that brings up the question – What does he have to gain to lie about this issue?
Think about it.
Bogosian’s right but it’s not just teenagers watching Hulu…it’s a whole lot of people older than that
Check out the latest from the Pew Internet & American Life’s Generations Online 2009 Report
“Over half of the adult internet population is between 18 and 44 years old. But larger percentages of older generations are online now than in the past, and they are doing more activities online, according to surveys taken from 2006-2008.
Contrary to the image of Generation Y as the “Net Generation,” internet users in their 20s do not dominate every aspect of online life. Generation X is the most likely group to bank, shop, and look for health information online. Boomers are just as likely as Generation Y to make travel reservations online. And even Silent Generation internet users are competitive when it comes to email (although teens might point out that this is proof that email is for old people).”
More importantly for the entertainment business is this:
Downloading videos is now being done more equally across all generations under 73 years old.
31% of Generation X (ages 33-44)claim to download videos
38% of Generation Y (ages 18-32) downloaded videos
13% of G.I. Generation internet users (age 73+) reported downloading videos, up from 1% in 2005
13% of the online Silent Generation (ages 64-72) say they download videos, up from 8% in 2005
Full report is here:
http://www.pewinternet.org/PPF/r/275/report_display.asp
You would have to be certifiable and/or independently wealthy to not secure some kind of payment for new media right now while it’s still possible to get in on the ground floor.
Great video! Eye opening! Disinfo. is rampant and John goes right to where the productions are casting.
Once agreements are in place for low, low budget web content, those budgets will expand but the agreement will remain.
Does anyone else see the irony in this video?
Did the gentleman get a SAG form to produce and star in this production?
Did he hire a guild editor at normal day rates to cut it? IATSE Crew to film and light it?
How much is he going to get paid from ads and other derivative income?
Is he going to take the video down after six months, or maybe he’ll opt to pay himself for another window of use.
Most new media productions are done by people with less than no money and a dream. They want to take care of their talent, but also are trying to create something.
When you take the distributors out of the chain, you change the whole business model.
Not sure what the answer is, but I do know that those 100 productions a day are not replacing high paying gigs, they have been created because it’s now so easy to distribute without gatekeepers.
Excellent representation of one person’s opinion.
But he skips right over a huge assumption… Around 2:50, he says “everybody pretty much agrees it’s all gonna be webisodes. pisodes are gonna be called webisodes once everyone’s tv’s are internet ready, right?”
Wrong. Internet series are currently developing separately from tv. People are using the web to make spec pilots. Networks are using it to test the waters for tv series. Webisodes are being used the same way digital film has been used in recent years – and to supplement tv and film, the way dvd’s have been, with special additional content around an existing product. They are not replacing network and cable tv.
And the digital conversion does NOT mean everyone’s tv is internet ready. We are a LONG way from the bulk of the public switching to internet tv. I’m a working actor too, been out here 13 years. I am not seeing production moving from tv and film to webisodes. I’m seeing reruns move from network and cable to streaming internet. THAT’s my big concern.
I’m not saying AFTRA made a good deal, or that we should sign it. But I also think a strike right now is the worst idea I’ve ever heard floated by SAG. Since the last offer, the studios have all gone into spending freezes. No raises, bonuses, conferences, travel, expensed meals, there have been layoffs… There is NO chance we’d get more from them by striking now than we got before. And in the process of finding that out, we’d earn the wrath of the rest of the industry – crew, production, etc. – who are fighting to keep food on the table in this economy… AND it would be a PR nightmare. All the studios would have to do is put out a press release saying ‘just when we’re doing everything we can to keep people in their jobs, SAG decided to put thousands of people out of work.’ The AFTRA contract is not the right answer – but neither is a strike.
PLEASE PEOPLE – get this video out there. Circulate it virally. Send it to everyone in your email list – EVERYONE. If people are educated – they won’t make the monumental mistake of voting this trash into action. Please – for the sake of our industry – send it to everyone you possibly can.
My two cents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6enaBTW9iU
The video from John Cygan, despite the nit-picking of the appeasers, is a demonstration every SAG actor should watch. The nitpicking is “forest for the trees” – as in, well, he got the hour info wrong, or not EVERY TV set is web ready, or,some other detail (in fact he gets it mostly right) to take away from the overall point: we MUST have a fair deal NOW, because the alternative, however different it is from the DGA or WGA deals, is the same in that – SAG NEEDS TO SCRAP THE ENTIRE TEMPLATE. Regardless of the inside baseball takes on what he’s done, he has CLEARLY laid out a NOW scenario that shows how punitive this contract will be for middle-class SAG actors.
EVERY SAG actor should see it.
Of any option SAG has? An SAV, and if necessary, a strike, is our best option – by far. Everything else allows the AMPTP to lock this contract in, and exactly as he says – it’s NEVER coming back once we put it in writing. There is NO precedent for the producers making anything NEAR that kind of giveback, and we will NOT be going out on strike with other unions that have different agendas in 2011.
SAG needs to look out for itself, get what we need – a fair contract, and then move IMMEDIATELY to consolidating all actors under one roof – SAG. We MUST get rid of EVERYTHING being viewed through the prism of merger with AFTRA. We need to take bold, decisive action and make SAG THE actors union for TV and movies.
Has somebody looked at the data?
This is LA:
http://www.actorsaccess.com/projects/?view=breakdowns®ion=1
I’ve looked the first ten pages and webisodes are roughly around 10% of the work if not less. Is this a boom in webisodes?
And what percentage of the money do you think they represent?
Consider that youtube is losing money and google doesn’t expect it to make any money any time soon, revver is almost broke, hulu is barely breaking even and apple considers the AppleTV a hobby…
“Middleclassactor”, you’re awesome. This is what we have been trying to tell the membership ever since we saw the DGA deal and knew how that would translate to us actors. And YES, the networks and studios will do all their pilots NON-UNION. Of course they will. Only about 10% of pilots are picked up, so even if they pick a pilot up to air on Broadcast, they will simply shove the actors to the side who shot the pilot for $100 (did you know that that is about $8 per hour, the California State Minimum Wage? YOU CAN MAKE MORE MONEY WORKING AT IN AND OUT BURGERS.) They will then re-cast the show with “names”. Now that is your BEST-case scenario.
In actuality, you can buy TV’s right now with internet connections built-in so the audiences will NOT KNOW if they are watching ABC or ABC.com. So really, they could pick up your “webisode pilot” and they could keep you on and it could be a huge hit and you could get something like 6 million hits a week and NEVER GET ONE PENNY IN RESIDUALS. Meanwhile the rate at which the sites charge advertising time and placement of the sponsors INCREASES EVERYDAY.
I think it would be especially unforgivable if someone like me, who has greatly enjoyed the minimum provisions (RESIDUALS) and protections through the Screen Actors Guild for many years, did not do everything I could to insure that other members and particularly future generations had the same financial opportunity as I’ve had under the Guild.
How could I possibly have taken all those years of broadcast residuals for which OLDER MEMBERS STRUCK AND SACRIFICED and not defend this contract when it’s MY turn.
It would be positively disgraceful of me.
By the way, in that AFTRA contract for New Media, THE PRODUCERS decide whether or not you’re a Union-covered performer. In other words, you can be an AFTRA member, but not meet the “covered performer criteria” and work on a non-union production with no repercussions from AFTRA. On the other hand, if the PRODUCERS decide for you that you are a “Union-covered performer” based on this list of credit-types they have made up (is your head spinning yet?), then YOU CANNOT AUDITION FOR THESE UNDER-15K-PER-MINUTE-NEW-MEDIA JOBS.
“Union performers need not apply” will be something you will see AGAIN AND AGAIN.
Listen to a radio interview I did recently for the GOOD news about the future of entertainment: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/REEL-Ladies/2009/02/10/REEL-Ladies.
Sincerely, Justine Bateman
What the guy doesn’t mention is that all of these non-union webisodes have ZERO enforceable contracts with SAG, because SAG has yet to sign any sort of contract with our employers regarding webisodes. Simply put, SAG doesn’t have any BINDING jurisdiciton in new media yet! AFTRA does, and all those webisodes IMMEDIATELY go union once they use a single “covered performer” – defined as someone with more than one legit SAG, AFTRA and/or EQUITY credit. Appropriate that this non-union webisode (he’s creating exactly what he’s complaining about) is called the SAG Elephant. The TRUE elephant in the room is that, whether we like it or not, AFTRA’s already agreed to these terms! Any benefits that SAG can negotiate are meaningless, as AFTRA has shared jurisdiction in new media. That’s the bottom line which should make it even more obvious why we must merge and not compete in the future round of negotiations. If these non-union webisodes actually begin to make money in the future, we must be united to secure fair compensation.
This talk of “loss of residuals” and “end of life as we know it” is all cribbed from the months of Doug/Alan/MF propaganda being shoved out at the members. I would suggest asking the getleman to answer the following questions for himself –
What makes him think that after 8 months of working without a contract SAG would have the leverage to get any improvement over the AFTRA deal?
What good would it do to get “a better” deal than AFTRA’s in New Media when any producer can work under AFTRA’s deal, and therefore would never choose our “better” deal?
Doesn’t he know that there is a sunset clause in the AFTRA NM deal which means that the entire thing MUST be renegotiated in 2011? So how could any deal we make now mean any permanent change in residuals, or anything else?
Finally, does he realize that members have lost over $50 million in unrealized gains since July 1st — money they would have earned under the terms of the AFTRA agreement, which they have now lost forever? And does he realize that all the money earned in New Media under SAG contracts since 2001 amounts to less than $1 million? And does he realize that (as we have just determined) any deal SAG makes that is richer than the AFTRA NM deal will simply result in all work being done under the AFTRA contract until at least 2011? So even if SAG could make that richer deal, the members would still be out $50 million (and counting) from unrealized increases, and to what purpose? Why have we waited all this time to make a deal when no member would have benefited from an increase in NM terms? Then ask him if he might want to rethink repeating the swill he’s been fed for the past 10 months…
He makes a strong point, but is there really such a direct connection between the AFTRA contract and the blossoming of webisodes? Seems to me webisodes were increasing in popularity rapidly before the AFTRA deal…if i am wrong, please let me know!
Also, while i agree a union should never say it is ok to work non-union, if only for the integrity of the union, what does this video have to say about residuals and P&W for non-internet work? Doesn’t seem to be addressed at all, and rather than make this a one-issue decision, shouldn’t the rest of the contract be scrutinized?
@ Rebecca:
You miss the point — current tv series will be relabeled “webisodes” in order to screw actors out of residuals.
B.S.
A whole lotta nothin’.
people arguing about “how many webisodes,” and “tv ain’t goin’ away;” are out ta lunch. the point is; all things recorded, delivered and watched under the “new media” new contract, is designed to eliminate residuals and to go non-union under $1.8 mil per two hours or anything under $15k a minute. stop pontificating about things you don’t know; and while you’re at it get somebody with a brain to read the july 11,2007 article in the NY Times by michael cieply, to you. i’ll give you the header here, they won’t give me the space to fit all in;THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 11, 2007
Hollywood Executives Call for End to Residual Payments
By MICHAEL CIEPLY
edix …
consider that william morris just made a deal with youtube to represent its clients in made-for-internet original content.
the sunset clause is a ruse. once the amptp takes a benefit away, nobody EVER gets it back. nothing will be recouped in 2011. get real.
sag actors need to be covered in new media from DOLLAR ONE.
What’s the average budget of a Network or Cable episode of television? What’s the average ad sales for a network show?
What’s the average budget of a webisode? What’s the average ad sales for a webisode?
Apples to oranges.
This will get you nowhere.
Awesome video!!! Thanks middle class actor. I have passed this video on to all my SAG friends. I am also sending it to family members so they can better understand our fight!
Explain to me why actors deserve a different world than the rest of us. The rest of us have to fight for ourselves, and convince the gate-keepers what we’re worth based on experience, drive and skills. Why should actors not have survive in the supply and demand world that everybody else lives in? If $100 or $150/day is what these webisodes are offering, then they won’t get the top tier actors, but that kind of pay may also reduce the numbers of actors out there thus reducing competition for actors. You may not like it but someone who makes a webisode has to risk all the money involved to make it, and if they can’t monetize their work, they lose their money. The actors get paid whether the thing ever sees the light of day or not. Why should actors be rewarded when they aren’t taking the risk?
A couple of quick points:
webisodes = betamax
management = union busters
Unions: the people who brought you weekends.
“Nobody knows anything.” – William Goldman
dig in, brothers and sisters, the fight will never end.
Many Web series producers, directors, crew are also making low money.. not just actors. There is a reason these series are on the Web–they have next to no budget.These series are not replacing TV, many have nowhere near the resources. When TV makes its way to the Web-in a real way-when budgets rival those of TV, then all involved will also participate in a much better $$ way.
Advertisers will spend online if the content & views justify it. If you don’t want to work for $100, then don’t. If your manager or agent is telling you to, then fire them. My company represents mainly Web talent, and they do very well for themselves.. some make five figures monthly.
Tom Ligon,
I’m eager to hear the facts that back your assertions.
a response from a posting of this link on facebook
“A friend of mine just booked a webisode with a big name lead and big name backing for one of the major studios. Shot footage for 10 episodes in 3 days and made $300 total. What this guy is saying is absolutely true. Everyone should repost this to help get the word out. Thanks, Stephon.”
the networks certainly have the budget to create and broadcast new content online and that’s exactly what they’re doing. there will always be low budget content, but the majors and their money are going online. so are the agents, which is why they’re not bitching about the shitty money actors will make under this shitty deal. the william morris/youtube deal is an example. the agents have finally forged their inroad to producerdom.
I’m 22, just starting and of my friends, how many have a TV? — none. How many have Internet connections? All.
New media will work the same way old media, ads. Actors can either stand up and demand a piece of the action (if there are no ads, no $$, there is no action… so we should keep our trap shut) or we can be steam-rolled.
It is so simple.
A Producer’s job is to find a way to make money.
An actor’s job is to act. Let’s not figure out how a Producer is making their $$. Let’s figure out how to demand we get a fair share of it. Be it on TV (gonna be around for a while), movie screen (I still like the popcorn, even with that fake butter stuff), or a computer screen (if you’re reading this. . .)
If the deal doesn’t include the Internet, it’s no deal.
@Richard — February 11, 2009
“Many Web series producers, directors, crew are also making low money.. not just actors. There is a reason these series are on the Web–they have next to no budget.These series are not replacing TV, many have nowhere near the resources.”
You forgot to add “yet” to that statement.
TV shows being made on the net have low budgets so far, but this medium is bound to grow over years, as will investment and interest in it.
Right now there’ll be cast and crew who will have cut their teeth on making web productions. This means that the production quality of web serials will quickly match those of TV. And this will increase investors, audiences and advertisers.
When TV came back into UK homes after World War II, the shows the BBC produced were basically radio with pictures. That was because the management and producers at that time all came up through radio.
When writers like Nigel Kneale began working on TV, they didn’t have any background in radio writing, so weren’t constrained by what should be done. When Kneale teamed up with the director/producer Rudolph Cartier, modern TV drama was born. And it developed and improved quickly. Look at the leaps in production quality between the live broadcasts of Kneale’s The Quatermass Experiment (1953) to Quatermass and the Pitt (1958). The advancement is staggering.
In the ’50s you could be certain there were hundreds of people in the film industry who were saying “TV will never replace the cinema.” Today we have TV series with production values that exceed many films, DVDs of movies we can watch at home, rather than go to the cinema.
It’s taken many years for that to happen, but the adaptation of TV and moviemaking to making web serials isn’t as dramatic, as the basic skills (writing, editing, make-up, SFX etc) and technology (cameras, sound recording, lighting, distribution) have already been developed.
When the Kneale’s and Cartier’s of web broadcasting arrive on the scene, the internet-TV will grow quickly. Add to this the rise in IT technology, which will see better internet access, and that enhanced video and audio compression tools will become available that will allow HDTV-quality video and sound to be reliably streamed over the internet.
These factors are starting to line up now, so now is the time for SAG to make a good new media deal with the AMPTP, instead of bickering between themselves. If they wait until internet-TV has established itself, it will be too late.
“My company represents mainly Web talent, and they do very well for themselves.. some make five figures monthly.”
How many of your web talent makes a minimum of $10,000 a month, over an entire month, on a regular basis? Are these some of the “Many Web series producers, directors, crew” who “are also making low money”?
This is incredible. I have passed it on to everyone.
One thing you forgot to include….the WGA and DGA agreed to a contract which did not include their original request for increased residuals …..It should be noted that writers and directors do NOT work for under $1,000/day. While some of us have slightly higher day rates — most actors, do not. Perhaps if actors received so much money upfront and their salaries began at a minimum of five figure, we too would be willing to forego a bit on the residuals.
Again, thank you for posting this wonderful wake-up call to our members.
Nice guy. Comes from the heart. Just doesn’t seem to have his facts straight. Suggest everyone read Keri Tombazian’s response to “The Elephant Man” that came out this morning. It points out that while he is clearly well meaning, the information presented does not accurately reflect the reality of the situation. If you want to be fully informed, please read this.
The video is very well done. The guy does a nice job of listing his argument, but the fact that people are following this blindly is scary.
He does not mention the Sunset Clause for 2011, the mutually expired contract with AFTRA in 2011 to ensure we negotiate together (or at least at the same time), the covered performer clause which means a ‘non union production” that hires a union performer, means the project goes union, or the inability of SAG leadership (alan, doug and MF) to get a deal done and essentially alienate everyone else.
ASIDE FROM ALL THAT which he neglects, this guy says there are pages and pages and pages of “non union, webisode production” right now on “actors access” or “the breakdowns”. This guy is lost in space. he is using the free, anyone can join, actors access website as a barometer of what is going on in this industry, when ANYONE in this industry who is a ‘working actor’ knows that actors access is the place where the jobs posted are things like non union films, short films, non union commercials, etc. This site is great and I am not diminishing the actors who use this to submit, however, for LEGIT TV, film, commercials, there are the “Breakdowns” or the better yet the information that your agents/managers see that actors don’t. Meaning, while this guy is trolling around and looking at Actors Access he negates where the legit production (paid TV, Film, Commercial, industrial, etc) and that is breakdowns.
I went back last night and looked at just this week alone (Feb.9-Feb 11) or 3 days and did a little comparison. Here is what I found:
Monday February 9 – Wednesday February 11
Episodic TV: 43 casting notices
Pilots: 13 casting notices
Features: 23 casting notices
Webisodes: 4
In 3 days there have been on Breakdown Services, for agents and managers to pitch legit SAG/AFTRA talent 79 productions for Tv, Film and 4 webisodes. That means almost 1 web project available for agents, managers to pitch clients on to almost 19.75 (or 20) legit TV, Film to pitch on???
The point is the this guy is taking about web production on a level that is not yet legit enough to even be a player in the day to life on an agent or manager and instead looking at the information he gets on actors access, which again no offense to anyone who uses this, but is not legit work.
Please actors, be educated before you start forwarding this around like it is gospel.
Hollywood Executives Call for End to Residual Payments
By MICHAEL CIEPLY
NEW YORK TIMES
Published: July 11, 2007
ENCINO, Calif., July 11 — In an unusually blunt session here today, several of Hollywood’s highest-ranking executives called for the end of the entertainment industry’s decades-old system of paying what are called residuals to writers, actors and directors for the re-use of movie and television programs after their initial showings.
The executives stopped short of saying they would demand an immediate end to residual payments in the upcoming, probably difficult negotiations with writers, actors and directors. But they were emphatic in calling for the dismantling of a system under which specific payments are made when movies and shows are released on DVD, shown abroad or otherwise resold. Instead, they want to pool such revenue and recover their costs before sharing any of the profit with the talent.
“There are no ancillary markets any more; it’s all one market,” said Barry Meyer, chief executive of Warner Brothers. “This is the time to do it.”
The briefing at the headquarters of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, an industry bargaining group, was conducted by Mr. Meyer, Leslie Moonves, chief executive of CBS, and Anne Sweeney, president of the Walt Disney-ABC Television Group, along with the alliance’s president, J. Nicholas Counter. It was intended to set the stage for Monday’s opening of contract talks with the Writers Guild of America unions on both coasts.
A spokesman for the Writers Guild of America West had no immediate response. But representatives of that guild and other unions said they expect to extend their compensation arrangements to new media rather than retreating from existing formulas.
The industry’s contract with the writers expires on Oct. 31, while contracts with the Screen Actors Guild and the Writers Guild of America the following June 30. With these deadlines looming, networks and studios have been scrambling to lock up additional episodes of shows that could be aired in the event of a strike, and movies that could be finished before the actors’ deadline. The industry executives declined to discuss specific contract proposals. But they said they would adamantly oppose any move to extend residual-like payments to the sale of movies and shows on the Web or in other new media. They repeated an earlier call for a study that would, in effect, defer decisions about such distribution channels for as long as three years.
“We need complete flexibility,” said Ms. Sweeney, who described broadcasters as being in a desperate scramble for revenue as consumers increasingly turn to online sources for programs that are often stripped of advertising. “Guild restraints limit our ability to do what we need to do,” she said.
His video is interesting, but it is missing some information. Of those 100 productions listed, how many are actually made by the studios? I would think most of these are fairly indie productions, which means a bunch of people with a few bucks are offering employment to actors, whereas if they had to pay PHW and guild minimums for webisodes wouldn’t be able to afford to make their little indie webisodes. The other question is, do these webisodes actually make any money? are they posted for free? is there any income stream from which to collect residuals? While his arguments are compelling on an emotional level, it is unclear whether the number of these webisodes is somehow tied to the ongoing negotiations with the studios. The studios can’t seem to make anything cheaply, so I’d be surprised if the studios could make many webisode series beneath the AFTRA thresholds. Anyone know?
you guys don’t get it do you? everything that is made will be made under a technology that fits the new bogus contract that flat out eliminates residuals and would make 2000 “low budget” movies a year that we already have contracts for under the budget line of $15K a minute, with full benefits; non-union. why do actors think they are different then everybody else? because they are, and they make less money and without a strong union, have no power; unlike directors, writers and crafts people who work every day. oh! boo hoo. i’m gonna’ lose one of my homes if you actors don’t take it up the old wazoo, and let us real people get back to work. most of us will never be able to buy a home if we accept this contract. and for all you sunset people; i have a real bargain on that bridge to the sunset you want to buy. i am personally guilty for negotiating the 1998 amptp contract that gave all of our priorities away in exchange for a sunset called; “residual study commission” we all got gaffed on that one; sag, wga, dga, tri-guild. still waiting for the report.
you don’t want to take the word of somebody who is already losing on the deal? would you believe the stated intentions of the people who have decided to screw us? i didn’t think that i could fit the whole article in here; turns out i can.
THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 11, 2007
Hollywood Executives Call for End to Residual Payments
By MICHAEL CIEPLY
ENCINO, Calif., July 11 — In an unusually blunt session here today, several of Hollywood’s highest-ranking executives called for the end of the entertainment industry’s decades-old system of paying what are called residuals to writers, actors and directors for the re-use of movie and television programs after their initial showings.
The executives stopped short of saying they would demand an immediate end to residual payments in the upcoming, probably difficult negotiations with writers, actors and directors. But they were emphatic in calling for the dismantling of a system under which specific payments are made when movies and shows are released on DVD, shown abroad or otherwise resold. Instead, they want to pool such revenue and recover their costs before sharing any of the profit with the talent.
“There are no ancillary markets any more; it’s all one market,” said Barry Meyer, chief executive of Warner Brothers. “This is the time to do it.”
The briefing at the headquarters of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers, an industry bargaining group, was conducted by Mr. Meyer, Leslie Moonves, chief executive of CBS, and Anne Sweeney, president of the Walt Disney-ABC Television Group, along with the alliance’s president, J. Nicholas Counter. It was intended to set the stage for Monday’s opening of contract talks with the Writers Guild of America unions on both coasts.
A spokesman for the Writers Guild of America West had no immediate response But representatives of that guild and other unions said they expect to extend their compensation arrangements to new media rather than retreating from existing formulas.
The industry’s contract with the writers expires on Oct. 31, while contracts with the Screen Actors Guild and the Writers Guild of America the following June 30. With these deadlines looming, networks and studios have been scrambling to lock up additional episodes of shows that could be aired in the event of a strike, and movies that could be finished before the actors’ deadline. The industry executives declined to discuss specific contract proposals. But they said they would adamantly oppose any move to extend residual-like payments to the sale of movies and shows on the Web or in other new media. They repeated an earlier call for a study that would, in effect, defer decisions about such distribution channels for as long as three years.
“We need complete flexibility,” said Ms. Sweeney, who described broadcasters as being in a desperate scramble for revenue as consumers increasingly turn to online sources for programs that are often stripped of advertising. “Guild restraints limit our ability to do what we need to do,” she said.
Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
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. . . AND THIS
Even Tom Hanks said at the Golden Globes, when asked about the SAG contract negotiations, – negotiations should continue until we get a contract that’s fair for all members.
And from Tina Fey’s SAG acceptance speech – “. . .and I want to thank Alice [her daughter] for her patience. And some day she’ll be old enough to watch “30 Rock” reruns on the Internet, and understand where mommy was going at 6 a.m. every day, for all that time. And she’ll look up at me and say, “What do you mean you don’t get residuals for this?” I love you, Alice. Take care of me when I’m old and broke!”
why no reference to the Covered Performer clause in the aftra contract? that’s key to this whole thing.
and, were those non-union casting items being done under the aftra agreement?
just because people are using the web instead of their local cable channels (free to anyone who wants to use thier facilities) to get a camera in front of them has nothing to do with this deal.
hope you post this, niki…at least 4 of mine have not seen the light of day. why is that?
Shut the fuck up moron!!
25 webisode posted? You mentioned they were NON-UNION.
Which SAG cannot govern that!
You’re a dumb fuck!!
Great video
Thanks for taking the time to make the informative piece.
As an IATSE member (you know us -the crew)
We also are in a crisis of leadership with a BUM contract.
Our Union reps sold us out ! .
More of the same-losing and not gaining-
We need to ban together-
SAG and IATSE (cast and crew) and STOP these BUSINESS people from breaking the UNIONs and keeping us from earning a Good Wage with good Health and Pension.
Check out 400hours.com
see the hypocrisy-
Yeah, I saw John’s video. It’s smart, and makes sense. Everything he says is, for the most part, accurate. And he’s a brave guy to go out on a limb to do this. I have the utmost respect for him!!
NOW-that said, the breakdown notices he was pointing out are there by virtue of AFTRA’s theatrical contract. A contract that I, as well, do not like. OR, they are just non union breakdowns. No way of knowing from John’s video.
Understand that if SAG were to, by some miracle, get the studios to agree to all of their demands, this AFTRA theatrical contract still exists. Those breakdowns will still exist.
If the studios were to grant SAG 500% more than what they are asking for on every issue, the studios still have the AFTRA theatrical contract to default to.
As long as AFTRA has this theatrical contract for studios to default to, I just don’t see how SAG has the leverage needed to not just achieve a better deal, but for studios to actually even need or want to utilize this better SAG deal.
More and more TV is being produced AFTRA than ever before. SAG signs a better theatrical deal with the studios?? The studios STILL can continue enforcing the AFTRA theatrical contract. Which means that AFTRA actors get P&W paid into.
The real elephant in the room is the fact that BOTH unions allowed the theatrical contract to not be negotiated jointly through phase one. Yes, it’s true AFTRA was the last of the 2 unions to back out of phase one. SAG makes that abundantly clear over and over. But it was SAG who got the ball rolling here when they demanded AFTRA not have equal numbers of negotiators in the theatrical negotiations. This was due to the fact AFTRA has fewer theatrical productions than SAG. But this strategy by SAG is why we are in this mess right now! When AFTRA balked at having fewer negotiators, SAG broke of joint negotiations. Members were very vocal that this was a HUGE mistake. They knew that by negotiating separately, members risk the chance of having one union undercutting the other, with studios then having an inferior contract to default to. This is basic business 101. SO-SAG came back to phase one. Then, after other circumstances and bad blood, AFTRA divorced themselves from phase one.
So yes, AFTRA backed out of phase one. But this probably would not have happened had SAG not tried to cut AFTRA’s negotiators.
SAG’s bad strategy and arrogance is to blame. This bad strategy allowed AFTRA the chance to take an inferior contract.
The buck stops at the top: Alan and Alan. IF their leadership skills were so good, we would not be in this mess. Just like any business, when strategies fail change is needed. The Alan’s strategies failed.
From a purely business standpoint, the only solution I can see is for SAG to go back to the table, try to get something at least a little better than what AFTRA has (if possible…the studios are under no obligation to up the deal..and they know they don’t have to as long as there is this AFTRA contract), and spend the next 2 years working side by side with AFTRA so ALL actors can be represented together for the next round of contract negotiations. As long as all actors have 2 unions competing for contracts, one union will always undercut. But together there is leverage.
We already are united. Actors are the common denominator here. It’s our parents that can’t get along. And the kids are suffering.
Grow up, leaders of SAG and AFTRA! You represent 120,000 people. Shake hands, put on that poker face smile, and work together like our dues demands. Learn from past mistakes, but don’t dwell on them! Stop the blame game, and own up to mistakes and bad strategies.
Because if you don’t, you are going to see actors in the hundreds go fi core. No need to stay loyal to unions whose infighting prevents them from being loyal to us!
to “are we there yet?”
Does Keri Tombazian work in TV?
Has she ever?
TheySaidIt….The article you are quoting is dated almost 2 years ago. Obviously none of that has come to pass. Sure they’d like to abolish residuals. This is a standard negotiating tactic on the producers’ part every time a negotiation comes up. That doesn’t mean they can, have, or will. Even if we do cut them some slack on New Media in the short term, that doesn’t mean we have to give up the notion of proper compensation forever. We can make it eminently clear that we are watching this carefully…monitor exactly what they are doing…and in the long term make sure they step up when it’s clearly evident that they must do so. Similar to what happened when Fox became a network, they will get a break early but have to reach parity later (which Fox did). In the meantime, I firmly beleve that there is no reason to strike for something that will cost us more than we gain in the end. Especially at a time when so many people are hurting to start with and we will have scant little support. We need to get our act internally, fix our problems, be smart and then re-visit this at a time when we can actually have cause and effect. Now watch..the rabid dogs will be all over me for saying this. They will call me “naive” or something worse. Regardless, that is how I and many others feel. I agree with you that we should not give up on residuals for our work. I just disagree with you regarding whether it’s worth the fight because drawing a line in the sand at this particular moment (and under the current circumstances) is going to get us nowhere. Respectfully, AWTY.
Dear Harry98…I know Keri Tombazian and yes, she has worked under SAG contracts…meaning she has a dog in the fight. That said, why don’t you just use your name, Matt? You’ve already been exposed for this duplicitous use of several aliases on another blog, including the one you are using here. They all came from the same IP address as I recall. We’ve seen you attack Keri Tombazian under your real name. Why hide behind Harry this time? How many of “you” are there anyway?
John Cygan’s video simply (and clearly) illustrates a very important point – that the AFTRA New Media deal is/will be detrimental to AFTRA as a guild, not to mention to it’s members as working actors. Which is the second biggest reason why SAG negotiators have repeatedly said “NO”. (The first reason being that any guild shouldn’t have a non-union space in it’s contract. But AFTRA did it. So…)
What so many of the negative posts on this topic seem to argue is the numbers – the money/budgets, and the preponderance (or lack) of the acting and income “opportunities”.
Whatever. John was only showing how the future of web-produced content is at our doorstep, not light-years away, and that it pays virtually nothing to talent. And he made that point very clearly.
People need to remember that we’re (SAG) not negotiating any contracts with “Allison, the wanna-be producer/director who has no money/budget; but who has a Canon GL2, and her sister plays the violin, and her dog can do three tricks; so she’s gonna start producing web content…”
SAG is negotiating a contract with the AMPTP – the six media mogul companies who are collectively our employers. We don’t give a crap what “Allison, the webisode director” produces – we care what our guild-franchised employers produce.
Add to that what the AMPTP companies are moving over to the web as content from television, and not paying residuals to actors (or to WGA?… or to DGA?)… It’s pretty easy to see why there needs to be some clear-cut profit sharing rules here. And I do emphasize profit sharing, not hoarding.
That “Sunset Clause”? Laughable. And has been thoroughly vetted as meaningless.
These low/no-budget projects are great (some of ‘em…). I love raw, creative talent. But what they all (?) would like is for one of the majors (read: SAG-Franchised) to see them and “get picked up” so that they can have a budget to do more, and better stuff. If/when that happens, those majors (AMPTP) would be either producing non-union content or have to recast the webisodes union, unless it’s in their contract with SAG that “original webisode content” gets to stay non-union.
And then when “Allison, the webisode director” (who might really be the niece of Bob Iger – *wink-wink, nudge-nudge*) gets her no budget webisode show “picked up”, Buena Vista dot com has a new online show – produced entirely non-union.
Yes, “Pay no attention to that man *cough*nickcounter*cough-cough*) behind that curtain!”
*wink-wink*
*nudge-nudge*
Keep your eyes open, fellow SAG members. And thanks again, John Cygan.
So funny Harry98 I was thinking the same thing about Keri — she has one Television credit from 1997 were she does a Voice Over and now somehow she an authority on T.V. residuals. She a Voice Over Actress, that’s why she so PRO AFTRA. And she has all these other V.O. Actors follow her like she speaking the Gospel. And they all hate SAG and despise Rosenberg and Allen because they spoke out against their beloved AFTRA — Hilarious!!
One Actors UNION — Screen Actors Guild!!
Extremely well thought out! Extremely well rendered! In addition to the non-union internet stuff, we now face, with the complete breakdown of old jurisdictions, and the refusal of the bulk of our dual card membership to heed our president’s admonishments to squelch the AFTRA contract, a proliferation of AFTRA TV. This, of course, means virtually no residuals, and hence—-no health care, no pension,——no rent—–no food—–no life.
These things would have seemed to be obvious.
Commonsense — Educate yourself before posting — PLEASE.
Actors Access and The Breakdown Services are the same thing. Let me tell you how it works — When a Casting Director is posting on The Breakdown Services they have a choice of showing the casting notice to just the Agents or going wide which includes showing it to the Actors also, which is Actor Access. Your argument that Actors Access is not legit is FALSE — plenty of LEGIT Casting Directors go wide and show their listings to the Actors (Actors Access) also. Some of the Televisions that are on Actors Access are LIFE, CSI and the Pilot for The Greatest American Hero, which is a webisode being done under a SAG contract — to name a few. This whole notion that Actors Access is some site for NON-UNION work is just not true, sure there is some NON-UNION work posted but the majority is Legit UNION work.
Peace!!
Don…I can totally understand your point about Keri. That being said, here’s where I must depart with you and where I think other factors must come into play. Consider animation or ADR actors for films and television shows, who do voiceovers..under the same daily or weekly SAG contracts that on-camera performers work under…with the same rights to residuals as these on-camera performers. Are you saying that they deserve no say because they do not work on-camera? Is a person who signs a SAG contract to do a voiceover on a commercial not entitled to the same rights as on-camera performer on-camera performer on that same commercial? Their work is being re-used as well and their voice is their product, just as an on-camera performer’s face and work is theirs. Many of these voiceover folk that I know actually work more than many of the on-camera talent. If you say they don’t count and you kick all the voiceover work over to “that other union”, have you not just given SAG, those actors and especially your pension plan contributions a swift kick in the you know whats? So..with that in mind, does it matter if Keri does most of her work in voiceovers? She still has a stake in this if she works under SAG contracts. I think it is divisive to think otherwise. Respectfully, AWTY.
Scott-I am very educated, so I ask you then to understand the casting process a bit more in detail before you rail off on what is and what isn’t.
Yes, they are owned by the same company, but serve two very different masters.
Breakdown Express is used by agents and managers for TV, FILM, COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL, THEATRE submissions. This is information that actors do not see or get access. This is where all of the casting info (outside of grids) is found.
Actors Access is a paid service by actors and has vastly different projects on them and are viewed only be actors. There is the occasional Casting DIrector who when looking for something unique or just needs a, as you said “wider” net will put it on here, but sadly it is well over 90% non union work.
Instead of just spitting out numbers, I thought I would put that to the test.
First, Breakdown Express (non Actor viewable) from Mon-Weds
Episodic TV: 43 casting notices
Pilots: 13 casting notices
Features: 23 casting notices
Webisodes: 4 casting notices
ALL UNION PROJECTS. STUDIO SUPPORTED PILOTS.
Now onto the “legit” Actors Access during the same time (Mon-Weds)
NON UNION PROJECTS: 102
SAG PROJECTS:
Short Film: 3 (one of those was unable to verify union status)
Webisode: 3,including the Greatest American Hero “PILOT” you mentioned. There is no studio, network or major distributor tied to it, but its a “pilot” so there you go.
Pilot: 0
Student Films (listed under SAG which is laughable) : 10
Extra work: SAG extra work though, is 4
Commercials: 4
Films: 3 total (2 ultra low budget)
episodic TV: 1
There are the numbers Scott. I suggest before shoot off information you don’t know that you check your numbers.
ANYONE who is a legitimate performer in this industry does not track Actors Access for work. Its not a judgement on those who do, but the fact remains that isn’t where your guest stars, recurring roles, series regulars and leads in features are looking for work.
PEACE.
This video is solid in his want for information to be out there, but I am SHOCKED at how many seemingly intelligent people are taking this as gospel. it is a guy in his apartment doing this video. Come on people.
Don, she isn’t PRO-AFTRA. Major episodic Voice overs, looping and feature film Voice overs are done mostly under a SAG agreement.
She is not pro AFTRA. She is pro, lets all be smart about this.
forwarding this on from a friend:
Actors & Friends
Regarding why SAG members need to fight and hold our ground….this right here just says it all.
Hollywood is going DIGITAL… period. This is why your former leadership was fighting like bulldogs for residuals. This is why it had to go as far as wanting to authorize a strike because this is YOU, me on the internet for the next 3 years and so forth that the AMPTP does NOT want to pay residuals and will NOT revisit in 3 years.
Stay informed at http://www.unionunderground.org
Online distribution pulls ahead of film
Digital disrupts entertainment consumption model
The entertainment biz will remember 2008 as the year when global revenues from digital
media exceeded revenue generated by movie theaters and homevideo
combined. In its “Global Media & Entertainment Market Forecast,
2004 – 2012,” London research firm Strategy Analytics reported that
online and mobile channels accounted for $90 billion in worldwide
revenues; the global filmed entertainment market generated $83.1
billion. “We’re starting to see now that digital media is becoming a significant part
of revenue for a lot of companies,” says Strategy Analytics director of
digital media research Martin Olausson. “A few years back, everyone was
still discussing whether movies would be distributed online. That’s not
a discussion anymore.”
For the global film industry, this is a double-edged sword.
Broadband downloading and streaming, terrestrial and cable video-on-demand (VOD),
and mobile platforms are now all ways to watch entertainment content,
from feature films and TV shows to made-for-Internet/mobile
programming. For the last few years, the questions have been:
Are these viable alternatives to theatrical distribution? How much more
content will auds consume on digital platforms? And will such platforms
offer new production opportunities and generate fresh revenue streams?
Strategy Analytics’ astonishing numbers imply that digital distribution may have already won the day.
Ofcourse, it’s not that simple. First, the technology isn’t where it
needs to be for global domination. “There are still technical
limitations, especially in the networks that go to the home,” Olausson
says. “When you’re talking about HD content, you need a serious,
10-megabit connection to the home to have just one stream of HD, and
since you have multiple uses in the home, you start talking about 30 to
50 megabits. We’re not there in most markets, with the exception of
Korea.” A quick look at broadband penetration shows the U.S., at
63.1%, and many European countries still lag behind South Korea’s 94%
(see chart). Then there are the business models. Hollywood
studios, the proverbial ocean liners, are still in the midst of a
lumbering turn. “The rules of TV and film said that producers and
distributors told consumers what, when and how,” says the Carmel Group
senior analyst Jimmy Schaeffler. “Now the power is slowly shifting to
the consumer. These new digital technologies stretching from DVRs to
the Web are turning the business upside-down.”
One major example is a case that may be decided in the U.S. Supreme Court. Cable TV
provider Cablevision has long sought to move DVR functions away from
the set-top box in the home over to servers at the cable company
office. Studios and TV networks oppose such a service on the grounds
that it violates their copyright protection.”That raised a
plethora of complicated and provocative questions related to who owns
the content and whether the operator makes any more money,” Schaeffler
says. Time Warner, Turner, CBS, NBC, Fox, ABC and Paramount balked at
Cablevision’s plan, saying the remote server is a different model and
requires an additional license.
Final word on whether this is
indeed a new form of distribution has not yet been handed down.
“They’ve already let the genie out of the bottle with TiVo,” Schaeffler
says. “Content providers and distributors need to look short term,
medium term and long term and make consistent decisions.”
This isn’t the only example of the evolving realities of digital
distribution. In 2008, for example, Apple switched its downloadable
model to rental. “To a large degree, that was because they saw the
success of Microsoft Xbox Live, which only offered a rental solution,
and that of Netflix, which added its Watch Now broadband option,”
Olausson notes.
New forms of digital distribution vary wildly by
country, says iSuppli analyst Steve Rago: “France is the mecca today
or broadband TV. VOD is a very popular service, and revenues are going
up. The same with Hong Kong and Korea VOD broadband, and now the
government has given them permission for broadcast VOD as well.”
In the U.K., the National Endowment for Science, Technology & Arts
chose 12 film companies to test digital distribution and production.
Cross-media production company OneDotZero was one of the recipients of
those grants.
“What we’re interested in is developing a
sustainable model for production and distribution of content,” director
Shane Walter says. “It’s a new way of developing content and ideas. The
way audiences now consume media, maybe they go see a feature film, but
they’re also interested in seeing a spinoff of that online or on the
mobile phone.”
Although kinks in the model have yet to be
resolved, the momentum is undeniably — indeed, relentlessly –
forward. “It’s very much a youth-driven revolution,” Schaeffler says.
“Technology makes digital distribution very desirable, and the
forthcoming generations will demand it.”
Ty Granderson Jones
Commonsense — LOL. You are totally spinning this — we all know that the Breakdowns are the Bible of the Acting world. My point was calling you out on the fact that you were trying to act like Actors Access was some Non-Legit, Non-Union casting site — which is not true. The same Casting Directors that cast on the Breakdowns Express are the same Casting Directors on Actors Access. Yes, it would impossible to try and make a living on Actors Access alone — we all know that the only true way to make a living as an Actors is to have an Agent. But for you to try and make this Guys video not creditable because he used Actors Access as an example is just ridiculous. He could have easily used the breakdown Express which you show casting 4 Webisodes and gave the same argument.
Remember the argument was about Webisodes, not which is the most Legit Casting site.
Spin, Spin, Spin!
Peace!
The flaw with his arguement is that product produced for the internet is generally free right now. The revenue is not there to use union labor. You are competing with a guy skakeboarding off his roof on You-Tube. SAG should wait (like all the other unions are doing) until the web is a major source of income before asking for a piece.
All this carping about webisodes being low-budget is a bullshit distraction. The point is the method of distribution.
When current tv series or movies are delivered to the consumer digitally by any method, they will count as “new media” — which means bye-bye residuals.
WAKE UP, people.
Mike D.: It’s not that it’s going to happen tomorrow. How long did it take for you to stop using VHS and start using DVDs? How long did it take for cassettes to vanish from music stores? How long did it take for LPs being replaced by cassettes? I can assure you that at some point, negotiations were met with similar circumstances as we’re going through now. You don’t negotiate contracts for what’s FOR SURE going to happen next month. You negotiate conracts based on long future technological advancements. TECHNOLOGY KEEPS EVOLVING, WHILE HUMANS want to remain in the dark ages.
Have you heard of iPOD, iPHONE? How about iTV? Well iTV will be here before you know it. Start planning on replacing your already obsolete flat pannel, cable or satellite TVs. Open your mind to the future. Open your mind to progress. OPEN YOUR MIND TO MONEY, DAMN IT. If you’re an actor and like working for free, good. But for ME and the rest of SAG actors, WE LIKE MONEY, we like to improve our financial income, we like to be consulted before our work is exposed in different outlets. We want a fair compensation for the work we like to do and are great doing.
During the dark ages people worked for free. IF YOU’RE GOOD AT SOMETHING, DON’T DO IT FOR FREE. Line said during the SAG Awards show by The Joker.
I’ve said this before: DO NOT, BY ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SABOTAGE THE PROGRESS OF YOUR FELLOW ACTORS. MONEY IS GOOD. NO MONEY IS BAD.
edix, you’ve either been brainwashed or want to brainwash us. Do you work for the AMPTP by any chance?
SCOTT – what am I spinning? You said the Casting Directors that use Actors Access (the entire basis of this video’s argument) use Breakdown express and that is just plain wrong.
I just showed you in 3 days that on Actors Access there are 102 NON UNION PROJECTS out being cast by students or random people and 1 legit episodic program, 3 web program (that aren’t funded by anyone or anyone with distribution) and I am spinning this?
This guy in the video is saying that the world is going to the websiode, per his astute research on actors access??? Not okay. I want him to look at the legit, paid, studio funded, network supported, advertising driven programming that is being cast on Breakdown Express. His argument isn’t credible because he is saying look at all this non-union programming that is out there. There are all these pages, etc, etc. well, that is WRONG. Where agents/managers look and submit there were only 4 web based projects or 1 out of 20, less than 1% of the total projects being cast with legit, represented actors. His argument is way, way flawed and that is the issue. he is not discussing covered performer clause or any pertinent issue, but he is claiming that this is the downturn of the industry because of what he sees on actors access. yes, If I looked at actors access vs. the real breakdowns I would think the industry is all non-union student films, but its not. Had he used breakdown express and looked at the 4 webisodes and seen that this is a TINY piece of the puzzle today and that the AFTRA deal has protections in place for this going forward, especially 2011, with a sunset clause.
You wanna get angry. Get Angry at Doug, Alan, Ann Marie Johnson and the membership first team who had over 8 months and 46 negotiations to get a deal done and COULDN”T!!!! They were the ones who pushed away AFTRA. They are the ones who have not gotten a deal and everyone else has.
Luzid says it all …webisodes or not it is the method in which it is “aired” and internet will be your new cable and therefore that episode of CSI that you thought you would make some residuals on will be considered “digital media” and as luzid says so Lucidly,
“Buh bye Residuals”….and strike or no strike this is the deal. they will never pay residuals on this media.
Last thing I ask on this….
AFTRA got increases in the TV contract and a foothold in the webisode world. SAG has not. We can bitch all we want, but everyone thinks SAG can get a great deal with AFTRA already in the barn. Please explain how.
Right now I’ve got Deadline Hollywood on one window of my computer and http://www.usanetwork.com on another.
Deadline Hollywood has an ad for The Wrestler and L.A. Weekly at the top. Does Nikki give those out for free?
I doubt it.
USA has an ad for Windex at the top and Saab in the middle on the right.
I clicked on “Burn Notice” (good show) and an ad for Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups comes up. There are five more ads set to appear during the episode.
USA also promotes “Monk” on this site. Monk originally aired on cable but has recently been on prime time network. I’ll just bet that the crew was on a low-ball cable rate to make the show, and probably never got a second check when it went network. Funny how that works.
Internet delivery isn’t the future – it’s RIGHT NOW!
If the actors and crews don’t get a piece now, they never will.
Gotta go. The show’s getting good and I’ve just gotten past the second commercial.
Commonsense — I’m dizzy! It’s all becoming quite clear — you’re a shill for AFTRA! You slowly start to expose yourself when you go off on Alan, Doug and Membership First — because they are the ones who exposed AFTRA for being the Corrupt Union that it is. And that is your whole BEEF on not liking this guys Video, because he also expose AFTRA for selling us Actors down the river.
p.s. How are you able to look at Breakdown Express? — it’s not for Actors (restricted material for Agents and Managers only!), are you really one?
PEACE!
We’re really getting into the meat of the argument here, and that’s good. I believe that anyone who doesn’t think that the digital future is here now has their head stuck in the sand up to their butt. Yeah, infrastructure needs to be built out completely, and the business models need to be proven more effectively. But the process is in place and however long it takes, it’s going to happen. And the earlier we as the crafts people get our act together, the less we will allow ourselves to be taken advantage of by the movers and shakers in the business offices.
The idea behind John’s video is that this process is happening. People are trying to position themselves as early adopters in the production pipeline so as to make themselves and their product available to the congloms when the time is right to pick the digital versions of the next “TV shows”. There’s a very old saying that goes: “You know you’re out in front of the right pack when you find the arrows in your back and your face in the mud.” The few strong will survive and the many weak will end up in the mud. Recall all the business plans in the early internet era before and after the dot bomb.
A lot of these early webisodes, not the doped up kid in the back seat kind of stuff, are testing the waters and seeing what works. What stories translate to the web. What formats are the best. What’s the appropriate length for the internet viewing attention span. What kind of advertisers are willing to play. What’s the right way to use advertising. And yes, these early efforts don’t have the budgets to pay anyone, yet. They are scraping by, rarely profitable, but they plan it as an investment that allows them to be at the forefront of what will be.
And as has been so strongly pointed out, the bigger picture is not just about webisodes. It’s about moveovers, product placement, shows being made by the studios now that are being tested on hulu or whatever, and on and on. Please understand that we are at the crux of a very important time in the history of this industry.
There are so many issues that are important here and we need to be resolute in our own efforts so that we don’t end up in the mud. We need to have all our arguments lined up and prepare for what is right and fair for everyone. Who is representing the actors? Who is representing the broadcasters? Do IATSE, SAG, WGA and DGA all have similar enough concerns that we need a single voice in future negotiations with the AMPTP? What is the right fight for right now?
If we, SAG, aren’t diligent and astute in where we need to position ourselves now and what we are attempting to gain at this juncture, we will lose whatever advantages we have for the future of our livelihood. And that would be a detriment for everyone who calls themselves a professional in this business.
Mr. commonsense: I just checked ActorsAccess and sorted the database by project TYPE.
NUMBER OF WEBISODES for
January 15, 2009 through February 12, 2009:
TOTAL: 30
Non-Union 23
Union: 7 (SAG:5,AFTRA:1,Unspecified Union:1)
UNPAID NON-UNION: 14 Projects UNPAID
UNPAID SAG: 4 Projects UNPAID; 1 No Info
The AFTRA project will pay the New Media contract rate
The Non-Union that pay:
Varied from $50-300/day;
One project pays $1,000/day.
Another ONE; flat rate of $10,000 (plus per diem and travel) for up to three months… that’s about $166/day, working 5 days a week.
Many of the unpaid projects offer a copy and credit. And as experience suggests, it will take centuries of years to get that copy, tens of e-mails and tens of phone calls.
Scott-
Not a shill for AFTRA. I am shill for commonsense. I am an actor. I work all contracts. What do you really think we can get now? Seriously? I love SAG. the Majority of my P&H is SAG. I don’t want to lose my union, but seriously, when you go into negotiations and your other union who represents actors has a deal in place, what makes SAG so special to think they can get a better deal?
It is commonsense negotiating.
“The flaw with his arguement is that product produced for the internet is generally free right now. The revenue is not there to use union labor. You are competing with a guy skakeboarding off his roof on You-Tube. SAG should wait (like all the other unions are doing) until the web is a major source of income before asking for a piece.
Comment by Saddened — February 12, 2009 @ 3:52 pm”
Saddened: You people who don’t get it are driving me crazy. How about telling the BROADWAY AEA theaters to stop paying their actors because the community theater around the corner is not paying theirs? How about telling the CEO to stop charging his multimillion dollar salary because his receptionish is only making $15,000/year? I’ll compair a professional actor to the CEO and the receptionish to the roller skater. The difference is that the roller skater has absolutely no acting training, is doing his roller skaing as a hobby and has absolutely no interest in show business. I can assure you that if this guy is a member of SAG, HE WANTS TO GET PAID HANSOMELY FOR WHAT HE DOES… YOU SHOULD HIRE HIM FOR YOUR NEXT MOVIE AND PAY HIM WELL. Now the receptionist is a conformist who has absolutely no interest to become the CEO because she has no idea of what the company she works for does. She wants to pay the bills and that’s it. The CEO has higher goals in life and knows that the world changes every minute and has to keep up with those changes.
‘Saddened’ said: “The flaw with his arguement [sic] is that product produced for the internet is generally free right now. The revenue is not there to use union labor. You are competing with a guy skakeboarding [sic] off his roof on You-Tube.”
You mean produced for free, or delivered for free (with no ad revenue to the producer/s)? People watch this stuff (content) for free, but there are ads and links posted on YouTube which generate lots of money for YouTube. Still, that’s not ABC.com.
Because the guy jumping off the roof on his skateboard is not content produced by Big Media, that content has no impact on the SAG contract, or contract negotiations. We know that that content isn’t making much money for the producer/s – and those producers aren’t SAG-Franchised anyway. Free is free. Fine with me.
“SAG should wait (like all the other unions are doing) until the web is a major source of income before asking for a piece.”
The truth is that internet-delivered content from Big Media is generating millions of dollars now, yesterday, and last year – and that profit grows daily. The studies have already been done.
You’re wrong about the revenue not being there. It may not be millions in proposed SAG residuals today, but that’s not really the point of our new media argument. What we’re talking about (arguing for) is for the future. And we all know that if we don’t get on the profit-participation bus now, it will never stop for us again.
Besides that fact, two important observations:
1) SAG is asking for profit participation – that means that when the AMPTP-produced content makes money, SAG talent makes a very small portion of that profit in residuals, just like we have always done with traditional media. Not a huge up-front cost like the deal the other guilds have; and…
2) if there’s really no money being made by the AMPTP in new media right now, why are they so damned adamant about blocking SAG out of it right now?
Big Media (AMPTP) has tons of cash to invest in not only new media delivery options, but on new media productions as well – and they’re all profit-generating. And they’re doing that now.
While webisodes may be a problem in the future, the problem right now is all of the AFTRA network pilots.
We all know business is changing. Everyone is scared. Even the big studios They may make more money, but that also have a lot more accountability. This fight really is about the little guy, or the actor who made a living doing small parts, roles, etc, and got a residual check. Here’s how the studios see it: We have to pay x-amount of dollars, hire accountant and payroll companies to deal with paying all these insignificant roles. We didn’t have to do that with the grips, or the PA’s or everyone else behind the scenes, and they are probably more crucial than that Joe Blow who got to say five words on CSI.
So instead of seeing the internet as a new place to discover talent, find new blood, evolve the platform, do something compelling and original get noticed, let your talent shine, SAG is preventing you from that opportunity, Of course if the budget was 50K, you should get something closer to your normal day rate. But it’s not. I’m a producer for new media and old media. I’m not getting rich, but the new platform is enabling me to showcase my skills and abilities that has already led to bigger and better opportunities. No one wants to work for free or for spec. You can always say no. The sad, sad reality is unless you’re Will Ferrell, than you are not going to guarantee the hits and eyeballs and justify that extra dough. And for what? A google banner ad? Everyone is losing money or barely breaking even.
If you are that good and amazing, you can ask for more dough. If they aren’t willing to pay, then they clearly do not value your talent or uniqueness to make the project better.
Everyone is expendable with new media. Even producers and studios. We are all competing against the kids who skateboards off the roof.
So the fear mongering conducted by Allen and Rosenberg has really got you all by the throats huh? So you think that what you have to offer is so valueless that you can easily be replaced by someone who doesn’t have your chops? If you’ve trained and studied, you would know that its not possible for the producers to do quality work without going through the unions. If what you have to offer is that flimsy, you deserve to not work.
This is amazing. Has NO ONE mentioned the fact that he is talking about ACTORS ACCESS as if it were BREAKDOWN EXPRESS? C’mon, SAG MEMBERS…this video makes us look DUMB AS HELL! Those WEBISODES on AA are there because they do not pay anything, or don’t pay enough to interest talent agents. They are made by students or your fellow actors trying to get reel. That is NOT SLIGHTLY REPRESENTATIVE of what SAG is trying to fight for, or what the AMPTP is offering. Those projects go on AA’s sister website, BREAKDOWN EXPRESS, which only talent reps have access to. This is almost proof that some sort of ‘qualified voting’ should be in place. The mass hysteria brought about by people unwilling to check the facts. Sheesh.
(SAG AFTRA AEA) Thanks for that. This is how I make my living too. I read a lot of the paperwork and I didn’t really get it. Please, keep us posted in “cut the bs” terms.
According to TV WEEK, “Lost”, “Grey’s Anatomy”, and “SNL” are the most-watched shows on the web.