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We all know that Hollywood envies others' success. So if Michael Bay can have a Hate Club, maybe Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci should, too. That's because, whenever I mention their names to bigtime screenwriters and producers who can't get anything going now, a lot of teeth-gnashing and profanity-spewing ensues. Here's why: Not only did the duo write and produce Star Trek, which has so far grossed over $350M worldwide (and they've signed on to write the sequel). Not only are they the scripters of both Transformers and the upcoming Transformers 2: Revenge Of The Fallen. But they also received executive producer credits for The Proposal which comes out this weekend. So that's three movies this summer alone, along with the TV series Fringe on Fox. Did I mention their publicist calls them 2009's "Boys of Summer"?
I Feel Your Pain Over Kurtzman And Orci
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There is, of course, the matter that their writing sucks big rubber monkey dicks.
So, in other words, because these guys worked hard for a lot of years to get to the phenomenal success they’re currently having, they’re now deserving of everyone’s derision and hatred.
I can’t stand Michael Bay (hate his movies, and everything I’ve seen about him firsthand and heard through the grapevine screams “asshole”)…BUT I don’t at all begrudge him his success. Like him or not (and I don’t), he’s earned it. HOWEVER, have I missed something? Are Kurtzman and Orci the screenwriting equivalent of Bay (little artistic talent, park-in-handicap-spaces-entitlement-type personalities) that warrants them being compared to him?
Oh, and considering what Kurtzman and Orci have achieved this year, they ARE Hollywood’s Boys of Summer. Just like James Cameron was and will soon again be King of the World. Just because people don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Most of their work is complete crap, but the first half of Star Trek represents a huge step forward for the pair. I hope they keep going along this path and not the generic stuff of Eagle Eye and TF.
The comment above me is correct – this just sounds like a bit of jealousy from the old guard in town who are now out of work. Plus I don’t get the point of this article? Are you saying they don’t deserve this success? Or that they’re not that great at writing?
As the comment above me says, they didn’t get there by writing terrible scripts. Not everyone may like their work, but they did at least put a lot of hard work in it to get there. And most people loved Star Trek. That wasn’t ALL the work of Abrams and his actors. Kurtzman and Orci at least had to write the great script for Abrams to direct around.
These guys definitely earned some respect with Star Trek. But come on, Transformers was probably the worst script ever put to screen.
Fringe kinda sucks. But it’s hard to know if they’re to blame since the leads in that show are so terrifyingly boring.
Kurtzman and Orci are easy to work with, they’re highly professional and know exactly what their business partners want. I don’t get why anybody would be jealous instead of applauding their success – they’ve earned every cent they’re making right now.
I just love the tale they wove of being billeted in a hotel for four months after the strike. Supposedly it was comped by Bay while they hammered out “Star Trek”, Transformers 2″, and other works all at the same time, just churning out product. Especially “Transformers”, which began production with only an outline. They could be “going green” by using only ten pages for a script: Insert reaction shots from Shia between the CGI sequences. Still, I applaud the guys – they are attached to the hits.
Let the haters hate. Good for them for becoming successful.
@ MartinShock:
Orci and Kurtzman were on set of “Star Trek” during the WGA strike (they exec produced it, but couldn’t render writing services). By the time the strike ended, “Star Trek” was nearly finished shooting.
At that time, Bay holed Orci, Kurtzman and Ehren Kruger up to co-write “Transformers 2″ — ST was in post-production by that point. I’m not a fan of Orci or Kurtzman, but they didn’t do a bad job on “Star Trek”. But as for the two “Transformers” movies, that’s a completely different story (not to mention John Rogers of “Catwoman” infamy wrote a draft for the first film too).
Have you ever met these guys? I met Bob Orci a couple of times and he’s one of the nicest people I’ve met out here. During the strike I walked the line with him for about an hour and had a great conversation. I finally say, “Hey you ever written anything I might know?” “Uh, Transformers?” It’s hard to hate a guy like that. I wish them every success… okay, they have had ever success, but they can have more.
Nikki PLEASE name for me even ONE movie they’ve written that didn’t absolutely SUCK!
I noticed your list excluded The Island. They wrote that one too, don’t you remember?
THAT’S the reason why these two royal hacks are so roundly hated. It has nothing to do with the amount of crappy movies they’ve been responsible for. Can anybody REALLY be proud of having Optimus Prime saying “My bad?”
Would YOU brag about that? They write like a couple of first timers. CGI is the ONLY thing that has kept their movies from going straight to the Bargain Bin at Wal-Mart.
And “the Boys of Summer?” Not even!
And Wannabe. I cannot believe you actually compared the Hacking Cough Duo to James Cameron.
One of the greatest writer=directors of all time compared to the two WORST screenwriters ever?
You just deep-sixed your entire defense of those two with that one.
They’re not Leigh Brackett or Robert Towne by any stretch, but @ least they’re trying to polish the high concept turd. They’re also very lucky to have JJ Abrams in their corner.
Rock on, Guys!
Try to make conditions better for the rest of us!
Regardless of their films, it’s about time some WRITERS were given due credit for successful films. It all begins with the script…
If Kurtzman and Orci have as little talent as you real artists, then I hope that with every script I write my skill with words diminishes little by little. Wow, look at that sentence. It’s already started! Malibu here I come!
It’s not like these dudes didn’t pay their dues…they started out on “Xena” for crying out loud!
It may infuriate people that they’re having all this success, but it is deserved. They write genuinely commercial films and TV shows.
As someone who has had recent success and now finds himself being attacked by jealous bloggers, GOOD FOR THEM! I hope they have FIVE movies out next summer. This is tough business filled with jealous, jealous people. They are good writers who have to ultimately please directors and studios. Everyone of the haters would trade places with them in a second.
Its not as if these guys have just appeared on the scene, I remember noticing their names pop up in the credits for Alias years back. True, they’re lucky to have JJ Abrams in their corner. Fringe has been one of the few hits of the TV season and Star Trek has had the best word of mouth from people I’ve seen in a long time (and the most enjoyable ‘blockbuster’ so far this year). They’re obviously doing something right regardless of what others may think of their work.
Nikki, why don’t you NAME those “big-time” producers and/or writers who spew profanity through their gnashing teeth! C’mon, we all know this business- great scripts don’t always make a ton of money, but you will have trouble finding one producer who would rather have a great script that made nothing over a crappy script that turned into a friggin blockbuster. These guys write scripts/shows that make money- period. Their target market is teenage/YA boys/men- so what if Transformers was stupid- that’s not why boys go to see these kinds of films. And say what you will about their films, their show Fringe is excellent- the mad scientist on the show is one of the funniest, most unique characters to come along in ages and he should get an emmy nomination. If they called my agent and said they wanted to talk to me about joining that show I would in a second. As for those un-named producers/writers- stop living on your reputations and get back to work on something original-
I would gladly take any and all the internet derision in the world in exchange for half the money they must make.
(Half the money one of them makes, in fact – so technically a quarter of the money they must make.)
No hate here. Pure jealousy.
Now if only writers who were any good could be successful. Wouldn’t that be novel.
Both Kurtzman and Orci are nice guys and deserve the success they have gotten whether they are the hacks or simply writers who know how to play to an audience…. and studio for that matter.
But in saying that their Star Trek script represented a bigger villain to the crew of the Enterprise than Eric Bana ever could.
Though I do enjoy FRINGE and I hear their script for the 28th Amendment is pretty good.
Say what you will, but Kurtzman & Orci take their audiences for a ride and people keep coming back for more. Don’t like their movies or TV shows? Then don’t watch them. As dysfunctional and anti-competitive as Hollywood seems at times, they have achieved success through the free market (i.e., their audiences). It probably kills naysayers that they’re also genuinely nice guys who’ve broken their asses to get to where they are. Instead of wasting time bashing them, refocus your energies on your art and maybe you’ll enjoy some of the same level of success that they do.
They haven’t broken their asses to get where they are. They have been given one job after another, and often by naming who one of them is connected to. Especially in the early days, it was people calling people saying, ‘you should consider them because you know he’s connected to…’
I think ST is just another shallow popcorn movie that doesn’t have any of the depth or meaning that Star Trek was always about and that it won’t be thought of even ten years from now, let alone 40. But unfortunately that is what many of the big special effects movies are about these days — nothing. Just wow at special effects. And people spend their money on them without caring. That’s why Avatar is getting all the accolades and box office — it actually is about something, a lot of somethings, and weighty. For these days, that’s rare and totally refreshing.
WOW the jealous losers on this site is amazing. You are so unhappy that the public likes their movies and ignores your crap that all you can do is criticize their writing. Well at least they didn’t win an Oscar for 87 plus derivation of the “F” word like Afleck and Damon did. How about critiquing the worthless scripts from movies that have bombed like all the anti American war films over the last five years.
Say what you will about the quality of their work, but remember it’s show business, not English literature these guys are selling.
Sean
Must agree with the comment above: ‘Let the haters hate. Good for them for becoming succesful’. ‘Star Trek’ was highly entertaining. ‘Transformers’ was a rollicking good summer ride. And ‘Fringe’ grew on me until it became my favorite TV show of the new season. They’re doing good, solid commercial work. What’s to hate? Though I can see why those who don’t have that high level of success are feeling burned. Just put all that hate energy into making your work better.
The naked jealousy invoked every time these guys are brought up is far worse than anything they have ever done. They are writing Transformers and Star Trek movies and people are acting like they get all the writing gigs there are or will ever be. If what they are doing is so awful why is it so hard to stand out in comparison, hmmm?
Actually, NOBODY could write a “quality” script for a TRANSFORMERS movie directed by Michael Bay.It’s just not possible, the material just doesn’t have any substance.(You could do a sendup or satire, but the audience would reject it).
you people should be supporting people who turn out entertaining and well-written projects that make money at the box office, thus helping to keep our business afloat.
Transformers, The Proposal, Fringe, and Star Trek are all written for “the masses” as you would say but each are engrossing, fun and highly entertaining.
Instead of hating on those who have acheived success, your competitive nature should be reserved for yourself. Focus on you and being the best you can be instead of focusing on others’ careers.
Writers are not rewarded for talent in this business. No one is really. You can’t jealous of luck and association.
Hollywood has narrowed the field to a point where anyone can be a star with minimal talent, say a stripper, who wins an Oscar.
The whole thing is a joke.
And so is this article.
To paraphrase what someone once said about George W. Bush, “we got the writers we deserved.” Their success is a sad reflection of the audiences that flock to their movies, and the state of Hollywood in general.
Hey come on. Lighten up everyone. This industry is all about the convergence of some level of skill meeting the lightning strike of opportunity/luck.
We’ll all be dead in 50 years. These guys just might get to buy better tombstones than most of us.
A legitimately GOOD Transformers narrative is possible. Check out the 90s era CGI toon, Beast Wars. It’s actually very well plotted with significantly more depth than you would imagine possible for a spin-off of a show that was nothing more than a toy commercial to begin with.
Of course, when I phrase it like that, that doesn’t sound very hard, does it?
The logic at play here is that because the audience prefers “Star Trek” to your movie, or because you’ve never made a movie, you hate these guys. That’s not logic, that’s jealousy. And if you’re arguing “goodness” or longevity, did you like “The Hangover”? Well that ain’t no “Network”, it’s not even “Caddy Shack”, and in 5 years, no one will remember it. (Except for the producers, who will start shopping a remake.) Cotton candy cinema is both profitable and popular, and to punish the writers that help create the type of films the audience patronizes the most is both sniping and self-destructive.
But these are screenwriters we’re talking about here, so why should we be surprised?
If only any of those who spew derisive comments ACTUALLY knew how kind, generous, and intelligent these two writers are, they would eat their words. These writers have been working on their craft and studying genre for over fifteen years. That’s a lot of time, a lot of hard work, and a lot of dedication and THAT’S why their movies have been successful. And with all their success — they’re STILL the NICEST guys in town. THAT’S why people want to work with them. Let the envious wallow in their own self-pity.
Transformers’ script was terrible to me, but that’s because I’m not a 12 year old boy. The special effects/action set piece scenes were going to be shot and their job was to make a coherent story around those scenes and satisfy their director who likes a very not subtle type of storytelling. All said, they did a pretty good job.
Star Trek on the other hand was fantastic. And my guess more enjoyable for them as writers. Can’t wait for the sequel.
Haters. K & O tell great stories and work with the best people. Fact.
Ya’ll know you saw STAR TREK 4 times in the theater like everyone else…
You know… if these guys were such terrible writers then it would stand to reason that the films they write would tank.
Obviously the public feels different than Hollywood’s writing fraternity. They have a knack for telling popular stories that people like.
Egotism and jealousy in the air from other writers? Yep smells like it.
Man, Nikki, you could bottle and sell a lot of fine vinegar with all the sour, sour grapes from the never-will-make it crowd in these comments.
Just because you can’t make it doesn’t mean you have to hate on those who have, guys. It’s really immature.
People call Michael bay an a$$hole because he is one, no need to lump Kurtzman and Orci in there just because they are successful. Moreover, Alex and Bob are nice guys, they do work hard and – not for nothing – they are the guys who invited the Roddenberry family for a special preview screening on the Paramount lot, didn’t notice the studio doing that….they’re good guys all around and deserve what they have.
Hey Kurtzman and Orci,
Joe Eszterhas called and left this message for you:
“Save your money.”
The jealousy from the out of work hacks that put out scripts like Rendition, Lion and the Lamb and other bombs that only they and their left wing buddies like Michael Moore want to see is so obvious. These two write popular stuff that we the people will pay to see. Therefore they should receive the rewards of their writing. If you write stuff that may be critically loved but no one wants to see then guess what you won’t be asked to write other stuff.
I notice you don’t criticize the writers of the CSI’s for basically ripping off various news headlines and then say any resemblance is purely coincidental. How about you write some pro-American and anti terrorist stuff for once and actually make the terrorists MUSLIMS which they are. Don’t change them into some amorphous neo nazi group like in Sum of all Fears.
I watched Repo Man the other night for the umpteenth time. One of my favorite films and as surreal a work of art as anything Salvador Dali every created. I often wonder what drugs Alex Cox was on when he wrote that script.
Brian, Hollywood did make a pro-American/Anti terrorist movie. It was called Team America World Police.
I thought Star Trek was a darn good reboot, which I would’ve thought nearly impossible, and the first unequivocally *good* Star Trek product since DS9, so well done to both of them. Also, Fringe is a smart, well-made show.
Looking at those two things, and looking at the good storytelling in Leverage… and looking at Armagaeddon & Bay’s other work, it’s hard to come any other conclusion than what’s bad in Transformers, Bay deserves to be blamed for.
The fact that they’re hardworking and apparently decent guys as well is to their credit.
Brian, I don’t know what the heck you’re babbling about, but my guess is as soon as you find out what Kurtzman & Orci’s politics actually are, you’ll be back here to bash them. In any event, this thread isn’t about politics. We agree they’re both good writers deserving of their success. Now will you please STFU already?
How is the HUGE coincidence in Star Trek where Kirk is banished from the Enterprise and just happens to land on the SAME planet and wander into the SAME cave where the future Spock resides acceptable writing in Hollywood? What are the odds of that? If coincidence is acceptable to that degree, then Hollywood, here I come. I can contrive that stuff all day.
Actually, they started out in Hercules and not Xena. They were great on the former, while sucked on the latter and were let go.
Anyway, there’s an old Hercules ep that may be of interest here: it’s the one where the cast plays the real producers and writers of the show and totally mock them. O & K are depicted as lazy-ass young opportunists who sleep in the utility closet with empty pizza cartons and cannot come up with one decent idea.
And did you notice, Susan, that most of their episodes back then, were rewrites of Billy Wilder movies… or, cough… homages…
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Fact is, as someone who worked with them, I can tell you firsthand that if they wanted to write THE WIRE or something of the very highest quality they could. Eventually, they will.
But right now, why would they turn down Spielberg, Abrams and the rest of the Hollywood elite who are calling on a daily basis to write billion-dollar tentpoles? They are doing what they love and in due time, they will have greenlight powers to make whatever they like.
Sad people on this board….
As an aspiring screenwriter myself, OF COURSE I AM JEALOUS OF THEIR SUCCESS, I must admit that after watching their “The Dialogue,” interview with Mike De Luca, they seem like genuinely nice, hard-working people.
Having stated that, I don’t think their work is that great, but it is very marketable (as evidenced by their huge successes), and if you want to be an artist in the film biz, go to New York. These guys ARE Hollywood and there is nothing wrong with that.
I only wish Star Trek made more sense (vis-a-vis time travel and alternate realities) and that they could have come up with a better convention than the ‘All-Spark,’ for TRANSFORMERS.
I can only hope to write to the same level of mediocrity.
I’m with Jozeph and Dwell.
The writers out there should be supportive. Why? Because we could be them one day and wouldn’t we want our fellow writers to support US.
This is what I call the Diablo Cody effect or probably what Shane Black experienced back in the day.
I just interviewed Steven Puri, who couldn’t have been nicer or more forthcoming, which reflects on K/O as well.
His advice? Write and take the time to develop your concepts. Really bang at them until they’re perfect.
The people who should be getting credit for this are Todd Liberman and David Hoberman….they were the producers that actually got this film made and Todd was on set EVERY DAY…just saying.
Todd Liberman and David Holberman actually produced the film. Todd was on set everyday, doing his job and making sure they made their days and stayed within budget restrictions. Not K&O.
This is correct… Todd Lieberman and David Hoberman were the true producers on The Proposal… Nuts that K&O should be credited….
“Todd Liberman and David Holberman actually produced the film. Todd was on set everyday, doing his job and making sure they made their days and stayed within budget restrictions. Not K&O.
This is correct… Todd Lieberman and David Hoberman were the true producers on The Proposal… Nuts that K&O should be credited….”
Agreed!
Let the haters hate, I guess. Meanwhile, rock on Orci and Kurtzman!
From what I hear, Orci is the talented one, Kurtzman is the lucky (and Machiavellian) one. The best Kurtzman/Orci I hear is from Alias. Apparently, all thewriters on that show got into the 48 Laws of Power, by Robert Greene, and were all using it to try to get ahead in JJ’s eyes. Unfortunately, they were all using the same Jedi mind tricks, and all using them on each other, and so everyone was undermining everyone. Good times.
Terrible screen writers. I have had the great misfortune of seeing Star Trek and Transformers and nothing in those films make me take notice of the ‘amazing writing.’ The only defence of the two seems to be that they are nice people, but how does that make up for the shitty product they are producing?
They’ll be forgotten in no time at all.
If anyone on this board has ever had any scripts produced, please announce yourselves. Otherwise, what a bunch of whiny-ass wannabees. These guys write big, entertaining action movies — some of their films turn out badly (blame Bay) and some turn out well (credit Abrams). But I highly doubt that any of you could’ve written what they’ve written. They’re real pros in a town full of know-it-all amateurs.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — those who can’t do, BITCH.
These guys are doing very well — good for them. If it wasn’t them, it’d be someone else.
I’m sure some of the haters on here wouldn’t be doing all of this breast-beating if it was THEIR scripts getting made by the Big Boys.
I say quit bitching about the work of others and make it a point to make YOUR OWN WORK the best it can be.
Okay, good for them for being successful. Bad for us for getting shit movies to watch that they had a hand in. STAR TREK was great — but I’ve heard that Damon Lindelof did some significant doctoring. Notice he’s also been hired for the sequel? Hmmm…. I read K & O’s early draft of TRANSFORMERS and it was just as retarded as the final product. Based on reviews for the sequel, it sounds like more of the same.
I think the real wannabes are the disproportionate number of people on this blog praising these writers because of their nice personalities and their commercial success. Hello… is that you out there, Orci?
No, sorry. Most professional writers can call a bad script when they see one. Envy has nothing to do with it. OMG! Can I be implying that the holy grail of our profession is to create good work, and not a Transformers 2 paycheck? How dare I say that?
But if it makes you feel better to trump these two as excellent genre-writers. Go ahead. It says more about your taste than anything else.
Yeah, I saw Fringe. And every movie they ever made. And I think they have enough leverage by now to actually make something good.
We’re still waiting.
The success of Transformers 2 is a loss that we should all feel as a culture and as an industry. When bad work is rewarded like that, and then supported on this blog of supposed writers, it does not bode well for our collective future. I am truly sad.
I am so glad television is still a haven of good writing. Rock on, Alan Ball. Rock on all of you writers that still give screenwriting a good name.
And as for the dynamic duo — please prove us naysayers wrong. Go out and make the movie that proves you deserve the success. A movie you can’t blame on Michael Bay.
Seriously, go make that movie. We are waiting…
I don’t get the point of this posting whatsoever.
Like many of other commenters have pointed out, “those who can, do. and those who can’t, bitch.” I am not saying they deserve to get a ‘pass’ simply because an artist’s work should speak for itself, but there is nothing in this posting that points to either one of them being egotistical assholes or anything of the sort.
I love DHD, but I still have no idea why these two are being singled out as bad guys…
Apology or clarification, please…