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UPDATED: So how is NBC Universal chairman Jeff Zucker going to spin this with The New York Times' Bill Carter? Remember when, a few weeks back, a NBC press release called Conan O'Brien the "King Of Late Night TV"? 
Looks kinda premature now, huh? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, NBC’s mantra that "We don’t need eyeballs as long as we have key demos" doesn't fly. Actually, both count. But last week David Letterman posted his largest weekly victory over The Tonight Show since 2000, while last week's Tonight Show posted its smallest audience since Dave premiered in August 1993. (Letterman was aided by the booking of Sir Paul McCartney last night). "This does not bode well for the fall," a CBS exec warned. Here's what is worse: Dave's Late Show also matched Conan's Tonight Show in adults 25-to-54. Plus, O'Brien scored The Tonight Show's lowest advertiser-coveted 18-to-49 rating since Letterman premiered on CBS. Even Conan's margin of strength -- 18-to-34 -- has fallen one full ratings point since O'Brien's premiere week on The Tonight Show. How can Zucker take that to the bank? Because Madison Avenue knows full well that if they want younger audiences with fewer eyeballs, they can buy ads on cable, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than prime time. Adding insult to injury, Letterman also scored 5 Emmy nominations this morning. Here's the CBS bitchslap, er, news release:
CBS's LATE SHOW beat "The Tonight Show" by its largest margin in viewers since 2000, placed first in adults 25-54 (tie) and narrowed the margin in adults 18-49 opposite Conan O'Brien to just -0.3 of a rating point, according to Nielsen live plus same day ratings for the week ending July 10.
LATE SHOW beat "The Tonight Show" in households (2.6/07 vs. 2.0/05, +30%) and viewers (3.68m vs. 2.82m, +30%). It was LATE SHOW’s largest margin of victory against an all first-run week of "Tonight Show" broadcasts in both households and viewers since the week ending Feb. 25, 2000 (the week David Letterman returned from heart surgery). LATE SHOW has also closed the gap with "The Tonight Show" in adults 25-54 (1.2/05) to a tie, CBS's closest competitive position since the week ending Dec. 2, 2005 (the week Oprah Winfrey appeared).
In adults 18-49 (0.8/04 vs. 1.1/05) , LATE SHOW continued to cut "The Tonight Show's"' lead: -1.4 in Conan O'Brien's premiere week, -0.6 in the week ending June 12, -0.5 in the week ending June 19 and -0.3 in the week ending July 10. Among adults 18-34 (0.5/02 vs. 1.1/05), LATE SHOW has cut "The Tonight Show's" lead from -1.6 in Conan O'Brien's premiere week to -0.6 in the week ending July 10.
Last night's broadcast, featuring Sir Paul McCartney, topped "The Tonight Show" by its largest margin since Oct. 16, 2008 (Sen. John McCain's appearance).
This morning, LATE SHOW with DAVID LETTERMAN was nominated for five Emmy Awards including "Outstanding Variety, Music or Comedy Series."
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Let’s see him pull this off for five days in a row that DON’T feature a performance from a former Beatle (though I’ll admit I’m rooting for Dave.)
The turning point was the whole Sarah Palin thing. The mouthbreathers came out in support of her and the rest of the country rallied around Dave.
They were morons for bumping Jay and messing with a sure bet. I’m a big fan of Conan but I do sense that he’s lost something since the shift. Lotsa dead air and he isn’t as risky.
Dave still sucks but he at least is good interviewer so it’ll see saw depedning on who got the better guest.
NBC needs to fire Fallon. Giggling at your own lame jokes got tiring by end of his first show.
I agree with the first comment, being pre-empted for the tennis matches killed Conan. NBC has two new broadcast channels thanks to DTV, why couldn’t they put the tennis games on one of the other channels and keep airing Conan?
Deadline Hollywood commenters are going to be so confused: on one hand they hate NBC, but on the other hand they hate it when someone makes fun of Sarah Palin. Who can they root for?
You’re kidding, right? The “country rallied around Dave”? I don’t know a single person who switched their choice of late-night programming based on that, except away from Letterman because they were Palin loyalists. Frankly, the idea is absurd. People will watch what entertains them. Nobody’s making a political statement by switching to Letterman.
That said, good grief, can we stop drawing conclusions in weeks and months, instead of years? I realize we all have to gossip about SOMETHING (or do we?), but this is nothing compared to what Conan went through in his first few years on the ear, and he turned out just fine afterwards.
Unfortunately, it’s required that we extrapolate broad truths and trends from small sample sizes all the flippin’ time. It’s not permissible to ever NOT have an opinion, regardless of how little it might be based in.
Maybe Conan’s in trouble, and maybe he’s not. The only thing for sure is that people who say they know are out of their damn minds.
LOL@NBC for screwing up the one part of their schedule that wasn’t in the toilet. I knew Conan wouldn’t go over as well at 11:35 way back when the change was first announced five years ago. Hate him all you want, but Jay was a rock, and NBC would have been better off paying Conan the penalty and keeping Jay where he was.
So many people I know say Jay was never funny and Conan’s so cool but I swear, every joke I’ve heard in the few Conan monologues I’ve seen could have come straight from Leno’s mouth. Same gags, different voice, but Jay was never smarmy.
It’s fascinating to follow these 2 franchises since there are so many variables that can affect the outcome. Conan acts like he’s a short-term substitute host: ill at ease, uncomfortable with the setting, inconsistent, unable to take ownership. Much as Leno did after he recognized the Helen Kushnick debacle, Conan needs to come up with a show that’s his own, even if that means ending some revered Tonight legacy elements. Dave on the other hand seems reinvigorated by his first chance at #1 in years. He’s more engaged, seems actually appreciative and his humor’s sharper (he’s taking nightly swipes at the Palin fuss and clearly enjoying it). Landing McCartney and Sacha Baron Cohen’s only non-bruno interview shows the Letterman staff is finally pumped up again too. It’s been a long time since tv has had a really great battle over supremacy but this is definitely one to watch.
Who cares? This story is pitiful in comparison to the original late night battle, jay vs conan circa early 90’s.
No one watches late night television except losers anyway. I watch Charlie Rose.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Conan’s just not funny, and has never been funny. He’s strained, awkward, tries too hard and his “wackiness” is 100% fake.
Then again, maybe it’s just that the pasty-faced Conan’s always looked like a dying man who’s been made up (unsuccessfully) to look healthy.
Love you Coney, but it’s so satisfying to watch NBC flop that I have to wish you the worst. I knew the decision to get rid of Jay was horrible and now that it’s turning out to be correct I feel so smart. The Peter Principal is alive and well. You all couldn’t leave good enough alone and so now you’ll have nothing.
NBC should have left Conan in New York. His efforts to portray himself as an Angeleno falls on death ears.
Jimmy Fallon is the most original of the four late night
shows. 7th floor west is a great spoof on the reality shows.
The greatest mystery plot at NBC is how Jeff Zucker retains his job.
jeff
“Let’s see him pull this off for five days in a row that DON’T feature a performance from a former Beatle (though I’ll admit I’m rooting for Dave.)”
McCartney was on last night. These ratings are from last week, so McCartney doesn’t factor in at all.
When Dave finally retires in five more years that’s when Conan will be able to take the lead. Until then audiences will go with Dave because his show is more inventive and funnier. Conan is too hip for 11:30 he was meant to stay at 12:30 now that he’s on earlier you can see just how much he’s straining to “widen his appeal” which means dumbing down the comedy same way Leno did when he replaced Carson. Jay used to be hilarious and cutting edge when he’d guest on Dave’s late night show then when he got the Tonight Show he turned into Mr. Iowa White Bread it was sad to see.
Personally I think Ferguson & Fallon belong at 11:30 and Dave & Conan belong at 12:30. Kimmel belongs at 11:30 on ABC and Nightline needs to go away.
When Dave retires Conan will be king of latenight.
If NBC had kept Leno, Conan would’ve left five years ago to ABC and pulled in a lot of the 18-49 (much more than Kimmel.) And then they’d have Jay these past five years with lower ratings, and not have Conan at 12:30 these past five year (where he won most nights.) Then for maybe five years from today they’d still have Jay as number one but eventually he would retire, and then ABC would have the king of latenight from that point on. And Conan can do it for another fifteen years if he wants.
It was a crappy situation but I think NBC made the right call. The 10pm thing on the hand… we will see.
as a “prime-demo” guy, I find Conan to be much funnier than both Dave and Leno. Dave was always funnier than Jay, because he was more inventive and edgier, versus Leno’s typical cheesy behavior (though as someone who grew up in Philly, I loved every joke directed at Kevin Eubank’s Eagles hat).
Conan is 15 years younger than Dave – he has a different type of humor. For everyone saying he looks awkward, that’s his schtick, which he’s been doing on late night for years. Self-depriciation and hating that he told some of the jokes he tells are some of his funniest moments.
NBC messed up by seemingly forcing CoCo to go with a lighter, broader appeal. He should get back to doing what he used to do on Late Night, fed-ex pope and all, and he’d get the numbers (or at least the demos).
also, Nielsen ratings are BS. it’s a shame that so much stock is placed into a rating scale that is so poorly developed.
http://vodpod.com/watch/1363218-late-night-with-conan-obrien-dudez-a-plenti
how can you say this video isn’t funnier than anything dave puts out now?
“When Dave finally retires in five more years that’s when Conan will be able to take the lead.”
And if Jon Stewart replaces Dave?
The older audiences went to Letterman because of his past links to the Tonight Show and Johnny Carson.
The younger demographics are starting to shift away from Conan as he seeks to appeal to a wider audience, hence taking away the sharp/weird/eclectic edge to his humor.
Dave wins. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
I wonder if the NBC affiliates feel they’ve been zuckered?!
“Let’s see him pull this off for five days in a row that DON’T feature a performance from a former Beatle (though I’ll admit I’m rooting for Dave.)”
“”McCartney was on last night. These ratings are from last week, so McCartney doesn’t factor in at all.”"
Comment by Andrew — July 16, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
And guess what, Tennis doesn’t factor in as well. Last I checked, a certain tournament that was in London England ended July 5th which was a Sunday. Translation, tennis doesn’t figure into last week’s ratings. What does figure into last week’s ratings is the fact that both Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert were taking a week long break from their shows so their audience needed to go somewhere for fresh material and rating numbers suggest the audience may have sided with Dave. On an related note, Stephen did have a dog fuck a baby child on last night’s Colbert Report in a bid to be named Worst Person in the World by Keith Olbermann.
I ask again why no heads are rolling over at NBC???? They completely destroyed HEROES — they could have used that or Chuck to go after the superbowl but instead chose to go with The office — which premiered the following thursday after the superbowl to worse ratings and no bump whatsoever. Now they put Heroes on at 8P instead of giving the lead in it deserves? It insists on using single camera shows when their biggest successes have come from multi camera shows like Friends and now this boneheaded decision to get rid of jay leno and to make matters worse — put him on at 10P — when Leno should have jumped ship and realized how badly he was treated and gone to ABC. If this were any other business — someone would be fired by now
I know NBC can probably veto this, but I just get the feeling that we’re going to see Leno appear on Letterman’s show to promote his new one just before it starts. You know Leno wants to gloat and stick it to everyone, and hey, Dave does love to make the news and make some history.
I honestly like Conan, but this is getting a little ugly.
I’ve been a long time Conan watcher and the show is different in LA. A funny observation.
The blue faux stained glass backdrop for his monologue needs to go away. Next time you watch, notice how the camera frames him so his head appears to be just above the waterline. How about curtains instead?
I agree with Carly, Fallon is pretty lousy. Decent interviewer but horrible at stand up.
The Palin thing really helped out Letterman, skewed things a bit I Think
Conan may be lagging right now, but he attracts a much younger audience… thus he will win in the long run. I don’t know many people my age (20’s) who actually like Letterman. Or who don’t love Conan.
How ScuZuker keeps his job i will never now, NBC just does not get it. They have towipe the slate clean and start over. GET OVER YOUR PRIDE of being the former #1 ! Get out of your penthouse and talk to the people, get off the golf course and talk to the people.
NBC though they could just RAM Conan down the throats of TS viewers and they would take it, WAKE up Zukybaby and realise we only have to push a button and we got another choice, real talant, and something fresh.
NBC in its wisdem wont even take calls from people who gave them, Sinfield , Cheers , Frazer, Golden Girls, all proven talents with years of GREAT TV and they ignore US>.
CONAN is Fake, hes a comedy Writer not a COMEDIAN, he will never be funny. He will never be better than JAY or Dave.
The incisive assessment of this executive-in-his-own-mind:
Conan going broader for the Tonight Show audience is also Conan going flatter and thinner. The monologue has never been his strength, while Letterman effortlessly/expertly puts over even the lamest jokes and Jimmy Kimmel has become masterful in the Letterman mold–a quick, thoroughly natural/comfortable wit. Conan has the wits, but also the jitters–the cutesy oversell, the cutesy oversell self-effacement… collectively, it’s a net negative.
He starts out grinding and stuttering–and the problem is The Tonight Show has always been largely a monologue show. The next most important element: the interview. This was never Conan’s strength either–though he can be quick and sharp when he’s relaxed. He ain’t relaxed now. Burdened with having to ingratiate himself with a higher level of guest, he’s toothless.
The greatest asset Conan had were his shows’ more irreverent features, the Triumph on-scene shorts, etc., yet all that stuff has to be de-fanged because of the earlier hour, the Tonight Show brand, blah, blah, blah…
Leno is a tool, sure, but, like a relentless mechanic, he churned out a solid monologue consistently–and… he is naturally a deferential, ingratiating interviewer. What he does naturally, Conan strains to accomplish.
Yes, it’s early… sure. Conan will improve. But Letterman is operating at a higher level, with lower pressure, and an increasing willingness to go out on an edge in his old age. (Having once sat like a quivering schoolgirl in Guiliani’s lap, subsequent Bush era madness has woken him up considerably, recharging his cynicism.)
Jimmy Fallon, meanwhile, is an open sore of painfully unfunny ineptitude, to put it kindly. He has his audience firing nerf guns. Excellent product placement, excruciating television. Time to hand out the real guns. Stat.
Kimmel is interesting. His monologue, often playing cleverly off other bits of content, is almost consistently funnier than the competition–and his show has created original devices (the unnecessary censorship trope, etc.) that really deliver. He’s a true broadcaster and very strong in the interviews though his guests scrape the barrel; an undervalued asset overall.
To me, Kimmel makes sense replacing Leno. Conan should have stayed put and been happy about it.
As John Stewart illustrates, sometimes you are where you belong and can be nowhere better.
Conan is a nice guy and pretty talented, but he still hasn’t figured out how to do an 11:30 show. He gave us his “edge” when he shifted to California and now just comes across as bland. One good step would be to fire his current director. Watching Conan now is like watching a TV show set in a barn — everything looks distant and large. They need tighter, more intimate shots. I’m no expert on this, but the visual style is much different than Jay.
Good luck, Conan, but I am happy for Letterman.
Conan vs. Ferguson — Ferguson wins
Conan vs. Letterman — Letterman wins
Why is anyone surprised?
I consider myself one of Conan’s biggest fans, but I do think it was a mistake to replace Jay Leno. I absolutely despised Leno, never laughed once, but it worked for others and healways won the ratings war with Letterman. Nevertheless, what’s done is done, and I don’t think people should pay much attention to the ratings right now, since it’s simply too early. Conan is still in the process of establishing what works and what doesn’t, and to judge him and his ratings on his first few months is just wrong. Loyal fans will remember that Conan didn’t have a long-term contract during the first year or so of late night, risked being fired almost every week, and 17 years later, he was still on the air. And just because Conan isn’t winning in the ratings war doesn’t mean he can’t have a long run on the Tonight Show. Letterman constantly lost to Leno and no one fired him! Give Conan time, he’ll recover.
And guess what, Tennis doesn’t factor in as well. Last I checked, a certain tournament that was in London England ended July 5th which was a Sunday. Translation, tennis doesn’t figure into last week’s ratings. What does figure into last week’s ratings is the fact that both Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert were taking a week long break from their shows so their audience needed to go somewhere for fresh material and rating numbers suggest the audience may have sided with Dave.
–
But it did affect the ratings the week prior, which can easily carry over.
The NBC affiliates are ready to jump. They’re frustrated with Conan and want no part of Leno at 10 p.m. NBC is reminding the affiliates that Leno started off extremely slow…but it looks like both shows are cataclysmic failures.
Conan will do okay in the long haul. Television has changed and as sad and realistic as it is to admit this, gone are the nights of the “Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson or Jay Leno.” “Tonight with Conan” is no longer singular or “must see” teevee as it has become like every other late night show.
I loved Jay, but have always thought that Dave rocks, has always rocked and always will rock. At least now he seems to be putting forth some effort and it is also nice to see that CBS’ P.R. Department has finally gone back to work and is routinely bitchslapping NBC who has a great spin department of their own.
By the way, how long will Jeff Zucker be around in his current position? As the weeks have passed by, something came to mind at how his “clean” transition from Jay to Conan really was not. Why did Conan first appear as a guest earlier this year, or was it last? Would it not have made sense for Conan to be gradually integrated in to the time period as Jay was? Just a thought. Hubris is a wonderful thing.
uh, Conan is not going to recover. He and his show is stale. But, Jimmy Fallon rocks! He has so much going for him. 1. He likes people! 2. He’s funny! 3. His band is FABULOUS. 4. He listens to his guests. 5. He looks like he is having fun. and 6. He’s silly. And have you seen his audience? Young… I guess you’d call me an oldster but I record the shows and watch them….I have an early bedtime….9 is oldsters’ midnight!
I don’t care for either one. They seem like relics from an older age. People that used to do stuff I liked.
Leno should have told Zucker to stuff it when Jeff showed up with the 10:00 p.m. proposal. Then Leno should have headed off to ABC. Jay would have beat the pants off O’Brien while Dave remained comfortably in second place. Leno’s loyalty to NBC is admirable, but not in his best interests.
NBC told me in a pitch phone call, “We are looking for a FRIENDS not a Seinfeld” to me that means they want same old stick not something original and fresh! and they wonder why they are #4, who would ever of thought they would be #4, glad i moved to CBS before they hit he skids.