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As expected, Redbox is suing Warner Home Video over its demand for a 28-day window before it makes available low-cost DVDs to the kiosks. But what really warms my heart is the way Redbox President Mitch Lowe is using not just anti-trust law but also a PR offensive to fight back against the power, influence, and unlimited resources of the Hollywood studios and the cartel they've formed. (Hey, Hollywood guilds, you could learn a thing or two from these Redbox guys...) Redbox has now set up savelowcostdvds.com to explain its populist message aimed at the 150 million consumers who shop where the Redbox kiosks are located, "Don't Let a few movie studios prevent you from seeing the latest DVDs at an affordable price".
Here's the latest Redbox lawsuit:
Oakbrook Terrace, Ill. – Redbox Automated Retail, LLC, filed suit in Delaware Federal Court against Warner Home Video on Tuesday, August 18, 2009, to protect consumers’ rights to access new release DVDs. Redbox filed the action in response to new distribution terms imposed by Warner Home Video that would prohibit redbox from providing consumers access to Warner Home Video titles until at least 28 days after public release.
“Warner Home Video’s actions come at the expense of consumers,” said Mitch Lowe, president, redbox. “Redbox remains committed to providing our customers the new release DVDs they want, where they want and at the low price they want. Standing behind our commitment, redbox will continue to offer our consumers access to all major new releases including Warner Home Video at our more than 15,000 locations nationwide.”
A number of studios also have shown support for redbox. Last week, redbox signed a multi-year distribution agreement with Lionsgate. A similar distribution agreement with Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (SPHE) was reached in July. “Redbox continues to forge winning relationships with a number of studios that increase studio exposure, ensure redbox customers receive access to more titles and support redbox’s commitment to providing consumers timely, convenient and affordable access to new release DVDs,” said Lowe.
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Since when do consumers have the “right” to low-cost DVDs? What is this, Social Security? Seriously. Movies/DVDs are a business and studios can utilize market forces to determine when and how much to charge for DVDs. Consumers have the right to buy or not buy. If they charge too much, they’ll lose business. The market will determine the best price.
Not to mention the fact that Redbox puts real human beings out of work. Blockbuster’s recent closings put around 7000 people out of work, with more to come from other large chains. What are you going to do when machines steal your job, or your husband’s job, or your parents’ jobs? Redbox is just another corporation who is out to make a fast buck. Don’t be a fool! Spend your money at the businesses who employ human beings and help put food on some kid’s table tonight! Isn’t it time we start protecting ourselves and our jobs from greedy corporations like Redbox. No machine is stealing someone’s job on my watch. I spend my money at real brick and mortar stores and interact with real breathing human beings. Want to have some fun with Redbox? Grab a prepaid VISA, rent all the movies you want, then don’t return them! If you want to preserve our economy and keep real people working, rent from real human beings!
You make it sound like no human beings work for redbox. I’ve met some people who work on their machines and they seem like hard working people who are greatful to have jobs too! Remember, this is about the studios who make tons of money making mostly weak product for the consumer because they can get away with it. Why pay more for lousy product at a higher rate? This is not about putting people out of work. It’s about greedy hollywood getting greedier!!
Yes, places like Blockbuster are closing up shop but their arrogance kept them from changing with the times and technology.They should apologize to their employees for not changing the way they do business.
when are we going to get to a point where the “put real people out of work” argument goes away? Computers, innovation, technology and advancement are he to stay… fighting them is useless. The market and everyone else (studios, blockbuster, hollywood) need to change their business model and adapt right along with market advancements. Who’s making those DVD kiosks… people. Who runs RedBox… people? Who services the machine… people? Progress shouldn’t stop just so johnny the high-schooler has a part time job at the local video store… that’s just absurd. the industry needs to adapt to these changes.
Yeah they’re doing a great job at bringing low cost rentals to the masses, but lowering the revenue from DVD rentals is going to eventually lower the budgets on the films. Might as well sue the studios to lower the cost of movie tickets or force the studios to release the titles on free network TV at the same time they’re released in theaters. Frankly, I prefer FX-laden big budget movies and comic book adaptations over contemporary low budget indies and froo-froo romcoms. Harry Potter was better than The Ugly Truth, and it cost 8 times as much to make. Never thought I’d say this, but I hope the studio cartel wins on this one. Save the big budget schlockfest!
Redbox is a part of Coinstar (NASDAQ: CSTR) and is responsible for Coinstar’s recent growth.
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/08/05/coinstar-red-hot-with-redbox/
Actually…these studios should thank their lucky stars for Redbox. “Paying” for media is an outdated concept…even my elderly mother understands how torrents work. Instead of fussing around with their computers and wasting time/bandwith trying to download a decent copy,some folks MIGHT be willing to pay a buck and get the DVD from Redbox instead…not me though!
Yeah, what a winner! Now nobody makes any money. It’s no wonder our economy is tanking with all you thieves on the loose, stealing anything you want and patting yourself on the back for figuring out how a torrent works. “Huh huh huh, me smart. Me steal movie off internet.” How about supporting the economy by working, paying for your entertainment, and quit stealing things, lowlife? Any idiot can steal. A smart person understands that pirating has a negative effect on the local economy as well as the talented people who work very hard to produce this entertainment. Moron.
Give the studios a gun and every time they’ll shoot themselves in the foot. The real problem with film these days isn’t cheap DVDs. That’s the problem on the horizon. The problem for today is expensive, crappy movies in the theaters where studios agressively squeeze out competition and continue to alienate everyone over the age of 22.
Seriously?
If RedBox is denied the right to do their own pricing and it is dictated solely by the studios. I think the general public will either be a) reacquaint themselves with BitTorrents or b) become acquainted with BitTorrents.
Seriously?
If RedBox wants to take the early hit on studio retail pricing and make-up on volume that is their prerogative. Just because the distribution is not digital doesn’t mean the studios are not facing a Napster highwater mark as the music industry.
Seriously!
The quality and volume of the film industry is terrible. Television has taken the innovative lead. Personally, I rather spend time playing video games with the kids then “zone out” and watch recycled trash…either on the big or small screen.
StudioShill–
Great point! The market determines the price! Go get ‘em!
What you fail to realize, possibly because your price-gouging hat is a little too tight, is that Redbox is moving to undermine your greed by influencing market price through a PR campaign.
Luckily your way of thinking– F the consumer– supports THEIR cause. If you were to step out from behind your Daffy Duck University Degree in the “Mine, Mine, all Mine Department” you might figure out one can make a profit without gouging and alienating what will soon be former buyers.
But the best point is made by Ms. Finke. “Hey, Hollywood guilds, you could learn a thing or two from these Redbox guys…”
True that.
Everybody wants to be RIGHT in Hollywood, but no one, including the guilds, can figure out or even cares what the consumer thinks, what the buyer thinks, what the public thinks. And it’s that arrogance that will collapse all the guilds and studios if we all don’t wake up.
In short, it’s not about us, it’s about them.
In general, I agree that the studios are evil. But why is it that they should be forced to sell their product at such a bargain price? Since when was the $3 or $4 other rental places such an exorbitant price to pay?
I support Redbox because I believe the idea of kiosks everywhere is a good idea. But their prices are unsustainable.
Why should studios be forced to cut their own throats?
Gee, if redbox pays the same as all other businesses to distribute product to consumers, what are the studios losing? They still make the sale of their movies. Maybe Walmart, Target and other retailers should be told that they can’t buy from the studios as well. It makes no sense!!
They aren’t being sold to redbox for $1.00. If redbox can make a profit by renting a dvd for $1.00 a day, more power to them and to the consumer!!
Remember, it’s the studios who are the bad guy here. They are the ones violating anti-trust law.
“Frankly, I prefer FX-laden big budget movies and comic book adaptations over contemporary low budget indies and froo-froo romcoms. ”
Yeah, okay, “Jared”.
I don’t understand the vitriol against the studios for setting prices that will sustain their company, fat and bloated as they might be. Clearly making a killing in profit isn’t illegal in this country.
The anti trust laws that prevent studios from owing theaters are outdated. Virtually every other business that sells a product, from pharmaceuticals to crest toothpaste is allowed to dictate the cost of the product to the retailer. I think the best solution is to allow the studios full control of their ticket and dvd sale/ rental prices. That’s true free market economics. Then they can chose to charge 20$ to see GI JOE and 5$ to see THE COVE. Same goes for the price of DVDs. If a product is in higher demand, they should charge more, and if they charge too much, then they’ll flop.
the idea that theaters owned by studios will close out films owned by other studios is out dated. Look at the quid pro quo in television – HOUSE being a stand-out example. A universal theater hosting a fox film will probably charge more than a fox theater to see it. People can choose to make the extra drive or not.
Same applies to DVD rentals. Let the studios set up their own red-boxes, side by side! Quit handing out their product to Netflix and Redbox. Then when they charge 10$ a rental, and no one rents, they’ll lower the price and find a more workable cost.
I’m not a fan of the studios by any means. But they still support hundreds of thousands of jobs – from the PA who just moved to LA to the PR guy in Bangladesh. Companies like redbox seem to undermine those jobs. As to the whiney shit-heads who want to pay less for a DVD rental than the cost of a theater ticket in 1960. It’s absurd that those of you who want to pay rock bottom prices dare to call the purveyors of the product greedy.
Lower cost DVD rentals have nothing to do with Hollywood budgets. Video sales and rentals were going to destroy Hollywood because no one would go to movies, they’d just wait for it to come out on video. Instead it did just the opposite. Cheaper rentals appeal to people who might not otherwise rent and or buy but think a $1 a night is worth. If you pay $8.99 a month for unlimited rentals through NetFlix then how can a lower priced daily rental affect budgets. It won’t. If Warner videos is attempting to fix prices then I applaud RedBox for standing up for it’s customers.
Forget DVDs. That studio cartel should eliminate the delay in time for digital downloads. When they do, the DVD will become extinct.
No it won’t. Some people realize there is a difference between buying a physical object and paying to watch a licensed digital version of it. If I buy a video game or DVD, I have something of value. I can trade it to someone, resell it, it has value. Digital downloads have no value. You are paying something for nothing. The PSX version of Final Fantasy 7 sitting on my shelf is worth $50. My DVD of Streets of Laredo has a value of $40 if I needed to sell it on Amazon.com. If you lost your job and needed $20 for gas money, you can’t take your digital library to the pawn shop and sell them. LOL! The only thing becoming extinct is IQs in our country.
The studios are going to run their own internet delivery system. Soon. And it will probably stink for consumers.
Even if it is a stupid idea Warner can do what they want with their product. Redbox can also put together a PR blitz to make Warner look bad. That is all free market, but the lawsuit is stupid.
this is a losing battle for the studios
you can’t dictate set price/availability like that
free markets aren’t fun when the sharp end is pointing at you
Duh. Yes, you can. How would you like it if I came in your house and said, “Sell me that TV for $20?” The studios have every right to set a price for the product they sell. Since when did $4 become to pricey for everyone to pay for a movie rental? You all need to find better jobs… oh wait, I forgot. Everyone is losing their jobs to machines, like Redbox. Hmm, makes you wonder…
Why are there people so worried about the movie industry on here? Do you work for one? Fearing people that if we somehow lower DVD rental fee’s, will relate to poor quality movies is ridiculous… just like banks too big to fail is a joke… poor movie studios won’t be able to make movies for $200 million? Cry me a river.
The studio’s are just doing their best to keep profit margins up (their job), and RedBox is following the leader. The nerve of ANYONE who will defend a mega corporations is beyond reality.
This is just straight up price fixing. The studios have a right to charge whatever they want for their product, but should not have any say in what other people charge for their product. Redbox is paying them the same money as Blockbuster, they have just figured out a way of getting the product to the consumer in a less expensive way. I haven’t used Redbox, but I might start now!
The studios had the same hysterical approach at the beginning of cable television and it has increased their profits, not destroyed them. As long as we make movies people want to see, we are in good shape! Overcharging is just a way of compensating for movies that bomb. Didn’t anybody pay attention to what went down in the record business? Adapt to technology or perish.
If you’re really interested in this, Marc Cuban explains it all (except why Warners is suing).
http://blogmaverick.com/2009/08/05/the-ultimate-movie-paradox-redbox-vs-downloads/
While Coinstar / Redbox CEO Mitch Lowe talks about how he is “saving” consumers money with below value DVD rentals, why does he not talk about how many jobs his business model costs for those who work in the home entertainment business? I USED to work in home entertainment consumer packaged goods sales for one of the studios, however, ever since Redbox started to grow, studios have laid off thousands of employees (including me), video stores close, Blockbuster is closing stores. Independent retailers are struggling all because he devalues the product and can afford to give it away for $1 per night because a machine has “low overhead”. His new business model has resulted in lower fees and advances for independent films as well because charging 78% less than the average movie rental, with no revenue sharing opportunities for the studios.
HERE’S A THOUGHT: Anticompetitive below-cost pricing is already illegal under current federal antitrust laws. Predatory pricing claims are brought under Section 2 of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 2. There are also anticompetitive predation laws under the Robinson-Patman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 13(a)
Watch what happens to $1 per night when all of the other video stores are going out of business. Once the competition is eliminated, it won’t be $1 anymore.
Thank you, Mitch. I’m unemployed. Good thing I can take some of my unemployment check and rent a movie for a buck, because at this point, that’s all I can afford.
Why limit redbox & netflix without limiting others. Yes the price point is lower but when you break it down per day redbox is cheaper. I myself sometimes keep redbox movies longer than 1 day so I pay more, some times more than I would pay at Blockbuster or other store type renter, while keeping the movie for less than they would have given me. It is not always cost affective. However, the convienience of redbox is what attracts me. All in all, I think that redbox was a great idea. Just because the the hollywood cartels didn’t think of it first, they have a problem with it. They seem to be jealous of a company that has figured out a way to increase profits in a slumpping economy when theirs aren’t.
Studios can charge whatever, but this stream is based on the very low price. From the consumer POV, redbox is a deal because it undercuts OnDemand (which is killing Blockbuster). If the DVDs were $3-5.00 a night (plus late fees…at a dollar a night its ok to forget it a few days), people would not rent them like they are, they would get OnDemand and not worry about returning them.
@ D.Nice:
“Do you work for one?” I would wager my savings that most people on this site work or have worked in the movie industry.
Why’s everyone crying because the studios want to decide what to do with their products? If they don’t like what Redbox does, they don’t sell to them. It’s their prerogative, and it’s their loss or gain. So you can’t rent a movie for a $1 anymore. Big deal. You’re not entitled to it, so stop whining and pay the extra $2 from Blockbuster.
I refuse to pay $4 -$5 to rent a movie. I only rent maybe twice a month so I’ll waste money with the monthly “rates” of $19.99. Redbox is the only way I rent. If I have to pay more, I won’t and I’ll just wait for someone to pirate a copy to me for free. Now the studios make even less. BRILLIANT!!!!!
Yeah! You so cheap! Good join ruining the economy. Redbox puts humans out of work. When machines get your job, all you will have left is pirating. But then, who can afford high speed internet without a job? Why not give your money to humans, who will then spend their income to support your job? Moron.
to me the problem with DVDs is studios blatantly double and triple dipping with varoius special editions of practically every noteable title…makes no sense to buy any but the must-have titles anymore
personally I don’t see the tragedy in paying $2 for a blockbuster rental vs. $1 for a redbox rental or how it is a victory for the people to pay a lower rental fee (or how a slightly higher fee justifies theft), but maybe that’s just me
I really don’t see why the studios go to the biggest retailer in DVD’s in the US, Wal Mart and offer them an exclusive for 30 days, then release it to everyone else. Problem solved. Isn’t that what Apple has been doing for years, with the Iphone, I don’t see anyone suing Apple because they sell the Iphone just to AT&T. They need to see how many DVD’s Wal Mart can push out the door in 30 days.
CB
So if it’s not the right price, you’ll steal it. BRILLIANT. I hope you’re consistent in your philosophy. Cause honestly – if you’re not also stealing the nine dollar blueberries from whole foods, you’re a fucking hypocrite.
But I have a question that I think cuts to the heart of the matter:
Is it right to steal movies for your family if you can’t afford to entertain them?
You gotta laugh at Redbox — they are determined to “provide the customers what they want, at the price they want it.” .
What they are determined to do is make a profit. Like WBs. Like any other company.
This is an arm’s length transaction. And if Redbox does not like the terms, they can go down the street, which they have, and get a different deal, for the same product – DVDs. So there is no price gauging (which really only applies to ESSENTIAL items like gas or water). And this is not a restraint of trade – for the same reason — other DVDs are available — so it doesn’t restrict competition. In fact, it does the opposite. Creates an opportunity for another Vendor – Fox, Lionsgate or whoever to cut a better deal.
Ahh the hubris.
This whole thing is weird to think about. I think my generation decided that few things are worth real money and now the movie companies are playing catchup, because the whole scare your ISP, attack your morality, frontload expectations and underestimate EVERY competitor (cable TV, Netflix, RedBox), didn’t do much. I don’t think everything should be free or even all that cheap, but i grew up in a time where people had the option to pay and the studios keep overestimating its effects on high budget movies and underestimating it on lower budget flicks.
All I know is this year sucked for movies so far, but they’re makin more skrill than the last couple years and they know it’s only a matter of time…here’s to clutching at straws. :\
@Waiting for the collapse
you’re a LOT more likely to find a new movie in a RedBox than you are at Blockbuster. plus Blockbuster is 4 bucks for 2 days, which is majorly different from a buck a day.
Redbox steals jobs from real people. With 900 Blockbusters shutting down, that’s about 7000 people out of work. That extra buck or two keeps real people working, and helps our economy. What are you going to do when a machine replaces you? Besides, it’s $1 a day… keep it 4 or 5 days and you pay just as much, if not more, than a video store rental. Let machines rent from machines. I’m going to support my fellow humans and rent from real human beings.
@cb
What?!
-_-
If the studios get say 70 cents on the dollar a rental and 10 people rent it, that’s $7. If they hold it for a month, half won’t ever rent, 2 or 3 will and the other 1 or 2 buy it or have a friend buy it, that’s a good amount more than $7 … It’s just business.
There’s two things the studios fear-
1) Low price rentals HURT DVD sales – who’s going to buy a film for $14.99,or even $9.99 when they can rent it for $1.00 a day.
2) The glut of USED DVDs on the market after 30 days!
i can’t believe how many of you are trying to put forth valid, nay, arguable statements, when you can’t even spell. take a class in english and THEN try to knock someone off their soapbox. as for all of you who think that Redbox is limiting revenue for the studios, chew on this: Redbox has to buy the dvds in the first place in order to rent them. in other words, the only effect a cheap rental fee has is on the renter, not the creator. I mean; honestly, do any of you capitalists even THINK before you post a response?
According to Broadcast and Media, “the five top media CEOs earned on average $26.6 million last year.”
The only movie I’ve seen this summer is District 9, and I snuck in to see it.
But, because I didn’t get caught I did nothing wrong.
That’s capitalism baby!
it is a better idea than the conventional rental process, no late fees, you pay by the day for exactly as many days as you want. after racking up a few $16-20 late fee charges at my local rental place i jumped ship and went to the redbox machines. i wish the local rental stores would adopt a one day rental/charge system. because of the redbox machines i see a lot more films than i normally would, and then in turn blab to friends about them, and they in turn do the same. big corporations fail to see how important customer satisfaction and word of mouth advertising is.
At the video store I work at, we DO charge $1 a day and we do just fine… but I am concerned that machines replacing human people will have a negative impact on the economy. What are you going to do when a machine replaces your job? For your information, if you keep your Redbox DVD 16 days, you will pay $16. Redbox IS a big corporation, and how can you get customer service from a giant soda machine stuffed with scratched up DVDs? REDBOX is just another machine stealing people’s jobs. Next time it might be YOUR job, dummies.
Did you ever think how many people work for Redbox and how hard they have to work while you are talking about ’stealing peoples jobs’? How can you get customer service you ask? They same way as with credit cards…you call..I don’t see you going off about self serve checkout lines in a grocery store…
I don’t work for the movie industry.
I think many of you are misunderstanding the point of the article/news report.
Warner Bros wants Redbox to wait 28days, then they can start renting the new releases for a $1.
Redbox is upset that they have to wait thus making the consumer upset that they have to wait.
I am sure that WB is wanting the 28days to give Blockbuster a head start in sales–cuz I am sure they get a bigger cut from Blockbuster.
Anyhoo, WB is entitled to do what they want. It sucks, but it is true. Me, I don’t rent from Blockbuster or go to the movies. I go to the kiosks because I like paying $1 a night especially for something that I will not keep. Holding off 28 from obtaining the new releases at the kiosk won’t stop me from still renting from Redbox. I will just have to wait. Saving $3 is worth it.
Who cares? pay what its worth to you. By the way, watching TV / movies / playing video games isn’t actually “living”. Get out and talk to people, anyone can add value to another’s life.
@Hal Jalikakick
If you think that only recently people have been losing jobs in the home video industry, and it’s all Redbox’s fault you’re seriously deluded.
The reason why you and many many others *years* before you lost their jobs was because the Blockbusters, Hollywoods, West Coasts and other chains who got preferential treatment from the conglomerates in the 1990s put the independent mom & pop video rental businesses out of business first. Other than in the tiniest hamlets considered ‘too small’ to locate a chain in, thousands of those businesses in cities and suburbs too numerous to mention are gone forever.
The few mom & pops who are left in the rural areas are challenged by VOD, Netflix & now Redbox, not to mention the preferential pricing & free goods given to the chains which indies rental outlets in marketplaces not serviced by them can never hope to share in. Add in sell-through pricing for tangible home video (first tape, then laserdiscs and now DVDs & Blu-Ray) and electronic (iTunes, Amazon Unboxed, etc) and their time for this world is not long either.
I’m sorry you’re out of work but guess what? The handwriting’s been on that wall since the 1990s. By my calculations you’ve had more than 10 years notice to retool personally for a different career (have you never read any back issues of Video Business?). And I’ve got a ton of friends who either got fired or got out of home video ages ago (and even more refugees from the music biz) so forgive me if it’s hard for me to cry you your own personal river.
The studios are free to bring anti-trust counterclaims regarding predatory pricing by Redbox, but they better be ready to have the books opened up on a lot of their decades old practices. If they were smart they’d settle this with Redbox, but if they don’t they pays their lawyers big money & they takes big chances with the court, especially given the fact that the Obama administration is more interested in looking into anti-competitive practices and judges who find anti-trust are less likely to be reversed at the appellate level and/or have their rulings hollowed out by new legislation.
It’s obvious that studioshill and jared work for Hollywood…
This is just another case where the big studios should have had way more foresight with Redbox (pretty much how Blockbuster thought Netflix was a joke until they hit them where it hurt).
Rather than waiting nearly 5-10 years to adjust their business models (long after other companies are making money at it), maybe they can start bringing in really creative people to work in the marketing departments rather than just a bunch of MBA’s without any street sense???
Curt
Pricing is so wacky because they can’t set the value of their price for a ticket, or Disc, or Download.
When you go to a show, like a Broadway Show or a Rolling Stones Concert, you pay what the ticket price is based on a value set for THAT event. You want to pay $200 for a good Stones Show, that is fine. You want to pass and pay only $20 for a Stones cover band. You want to sneak a recorder in and share it with your friends…well it’s been done.
Well you get my point,
That’s a real market…there is too many middlemen.
Yeah they’re doing a great job at bringing low cost rentals to the masses, but lowering the revenue from DVD rentals is going to eventually lower the budgets on the films. Might as well sue the studios to lower the cost of movie tickets or force the studios to release the titles on free network TV at the same time they’re released in theaters. Frankly, I prefer FX-laden big budget movies and comic book adaptations over contemporary low budget indies and froo-froo romcoms. Harry Potter was better than The Ugly Truth, and it cost 8 times as much to make. Never thought I’d say this, but I hope the studio cartel wins on this one. Save the big budget schlockfest!
Really?
I’d rather studios lower their budgets so interesting movies can be once again made, as opposed to studios draining any sort of creativity from movies because the only competition is the high budget high grossing tripe that we see.
Do you think that Citizen Cane could POSSIBLY have been made today? No; it’s a bizarre movie, it’s not something that appeals to the lowest common denominator and thus would never be able to make up the cost that a high budget movie could.
Movies today are simply flashing lights and spectacles of CG. I’d rather we get fresh stories than an infinite number of sequels (Fast and Furious, Saw) because the first were that successful.
Forget about $1 DVD..Why these Studios not considering Torrents?? Now, we all, at least most of us, do have access to torrents. Even then, many like me still prefer to pay a dollar for the DVD from RedBox! I’m definitely not going to pay $4 in BlockBuster..If the movie is not available in RedBox, I’ll simply go to a torrent site and download a BlueRay Rip version!
I have to agree 100% with StudioSHill. Consumers do not have a right to cheap DVD rentals soon after their release. But the way the courts have been ruling, I would not be surprised to find that Time-Warner and any other media distributors will be told by the courts that “It is in the public interest” to allow consumers access to the DVDs at an affordable price. After all, the whole issue here “access”. What Time-Warner wants it to be able to milk the cash cows before they hit the break-even point. What’s to keep TW from simply saying “We set the value of the DVD for the first 28 days after release”? This ladies and gentlemen is free enterprise. If people go along with it, we can expect movies on DVD 28 days after release for $.99 per night. On the other hand if no one buys the DVDs in the first 28 days, then TW will have to change its policy. This would be “arms length Fair Value” in a free enterprise economy. That is what a willing seller is willing to sell for to a wiling buyer
Sorry studios, but you’re never going to get the same DVD sales numbers you were getting from 1999-2007. The novelty has worn off. I remember when I first got a DVD player I bought a ton of movies, crap like Godzilla (1998) and Bride of Chucky because I had to have the newest DVDs. And of course I had to buy all my old favorites that I had on VHS. But now the novelty has worn off, and the new movies coming out are so bad, who wants to own them? I think I’ve only bought maybe 5 new movies that have been released in the last few years. Most of the DVDs are buy are older films. And sorry but Blu-Ray is catching on, but most people aren’t going to go the VHS-DVD route that they did by buying all the films they had on DVD for Blu-Ray. I think Redbox is a fad anyway. Once digital downloads happen on a large scale, it’ll be gone. It’s got a 5-8 year lifespan at most. Anybody who invests in that company for the long term will probably get burned since Redbox ain’t built to last.
Is everyone out there forgetting that almost all the people i know are out of work, took high pay cuts to keep there jobs or are working a low paying job just to have 1. In this economy i don’t have 25.00 to take myself and my nephew to the movies. Nor do any of my friends. There are alot of people out there just like us. Feeding us is much more important. The $1 redbox gives a chance to still have a movie night without breaking the bank. So go Redbox.
There shouldn’t be market forces at play here at all. Since the 1600’s and the Law of the First Sale, no Common Law country has ever allowed someone to extract royalties on transfers and transactions of a physical copy of a copyrighted work. Period. Redbox buys these DVDs, Redbox owns these DVDs, and after the “First Sale,” they don’t owe anybody anything.
Last I checked Warner Brothers wasn’t run by Pablo Escobar. Hollywood is not entitled to run its business along the same lines.
The Redbox VS. Warner Brothers case is now online at the AllRise court – http://bit.ly/421q8d
If Redbox actually had the new release movies I wanted to see, I wouldn’t torrent them.
Market forces are determining the best price as the popularity of Redbox is showing and the decrease in sales for normal video stores BUT Warner Home Video wants to ignore the market and try to cut Redbox out.
Quit ripping me off when I go to the theater and I’ll likely stop copying DVDs/Blu-rays and looking for the most inexpensive way to do it (Netflix, RedBox, etc).
Just look at the cost of popcorn at the theater…that alone pisses me off enough to bypass the big screen all together. Hell, it is enough for me stab a Hollywood executive in the eyes with a spoon. Yea, I know I should direct that hatred toward the cinema company, but I feel Warner should be looking at that long-time gouging rather than RedBox’s practices now that it is popular…so for me it comes back around to Hollywood.
Anyway, this bickering between the two is pointless…but I will side with RedBox. The conglomerates (including their branches like home video) are now verbatim to the greedy music industry. Thankfully that industry is starting to see the light and give me more options to choose less crap.
What many people do not understand is that studios are NOT giving RedBox the sames “deals” in bulk purchasing that they give to Netflix, Blockbuster and the like. Redbox believes that they should be treatly equally and that is not currently the case with the studios.
All the more reason to pirate Warner Bros’ titles.
The Redbox dirt cheap pricing is so important that if they are any amount higher they will lose customers a good amount of customers. Redbox stands in the gap between high fee rental stores and illegal distribution of movies. The redbox dvds have a good collection of movies and all of good decent dvd quality. If warner bros want does not comply, then it is vulnerable to more of its movies being pirated over the internet. Some revenue is better than no revenue.
I favor renting dvds over downloading it over the internet because I want to watch it in my home theatre. the hassle of downloading and then burning is just a tad bit more effort to watch a movie than to walk to my redbox which is a 100 feet away from where I live.
And about the sales of dvds, I dont know what age are we in but I dont know anyone who will buy a movie just to watch it once. The people who do buy movies usually love that movie and would want to make it a part of their collection, so they would buy it anyway, whether the price of the dvd is low or high.
What many people do not understand is that studios are NOT giving RedBox the sames “deals” in bulk purchasing that they give to Netflix, Blockbuster and the like. Redbox believes that they should be treatly equally and that is not currently the case with the studios.
Courtesy of Matt
Wait.
Netflix works out to be cheaper Redbox. I use the lowest price plan of $8.99 a month which gets me one DvD at a time plus unlimited streaming video.
I get my DVD, watch it and send it back the next day. 2 days later I get my next DVD.
That breaks down to less than fifty cents a day for every movie I watch which is about 16 a month not counting the unlimited streaming video.
Why is Warner not trying the same thing with Netflix by imposing the same 28 day wait?
This is total fun. Hollywood produces junk nowadays. Most often “movies” that promote a political agenda. And we don’t have to pay more than a dollar. We just have to wait until their crap bombs in the theater.
Go Redbox!!
You know I’ll never really understand capitalism. When did it become kosher to dictate what consumers do with the product after they bought. It’s like buying a product from a brand name and then the company who owns the name says you can’t use this with any other product by a competitor just because your hurting your sales. Redbox doesn’t get these DVDs for free, they pay for them which means if they want charge less than their competitors they beat the competition and make more money. Sure its more automated than blockbuster so they can charge less but isn’t that the entire point in technology in the first place? Computers weren’t made to make money they were made to save it. I understand some people are going to lose their job in the entertainment business but who does that really hurt? It’s not like you cant ever get another job, i hear manual labor jobs now are in a crunch to hire more backs and if thats all your qualified to do now, well its not anyone else’s fault but your own for choosing the education you did. People need cheaper items to keep playing consumer without going into debt and just because you lost your job that ultimately is for entertaining people maybe you should rethink what your direction your life is going in. Yes jobs are lost but prices are going down. Yes competitors are losing business but people can get what they want and need, easier and cheaper. You don’t see the typewriter businesses winning lawsuits against computer companies because it destroys their business and jobs are lost. The world changes sometimes worse for certain individuals but better for society as a whole. If i buy something i better be able to choose how and when and where my purchase is used, its mine now, not theirs. Just because the markets change doesn’t mean corporations get compensation it just means they are obsolete. Whats really important here, a small part of the population gets to do comfortable jobs, that a machine could do now obviously, or that consumers can get better deals so they can spend their money on other things. And FYI when everything is cheaper there would be less of a demand for high paying jobs in the first place, meaning if you lost your job you would still be fine working a shitty paying job as well. Its a step in the right direction when you look at it, it’s just people who are doing obsolete jobs who aren’t needed are getting pissy because they now have to find something else to do, but HOPEFULLY they can find something that can better help society. I have no sympathy for a company that losses money because their profits where from price gouging in the first place. The best lesson i was ever taught in business was the point isn’t in making money its providing a service to the consumer. If you want to bitch about losing your job and money start bitching about the real enemy who happens to be the big boss who owns a 100,000 sq ft house in 3 states and 2 other countries, because it takes a little more than fair pricing for anyone to afford to live that comfortable. One last point, the reason America falls so far behind in quality of technology (and no, after the automobile industry failure its no longer debatable seeing as everything else is made in either Asia or India) is because we let companies dictate who can use technology advances instead of letting everyone advance, while they just choose what benefits them better.
I love the fact that there are so many people who know what the suit is about commenting. I think the only person who gets it is Matt.
Redbox BUYS the DVDs from distributors just like Hollywood Video and other rental stores do. They BUY. That means they OWN the DVDs.
WB has asked the distributors to not sell to Redbox for 28 days. By law, they can’t do that. The distributor is not owned by Hollywood.
The right of first sales means that you, me, or Redbox can do anything we want with a DVD we buy.
Hollywood wants Redbox to also pay 40% of it’s revenue. They have no right to demand that. Redbox BOUGHT the DVDs. They can sell them, rent them, give them away. Anything they want without Hollywood’s permission.
Redbox has also said they will buy new releases at retail if need be to stay stocked.
Redbox can charge $5 or $10 per night. The studios get none of Redbox’s money. They already made their money when Redbox bought the DVD.
As said elsewhere, Hollywood is smacking that they didn’t think of this to boost low sales. Now they want to force Redbox to share a piece of the action. I think they will lose this case on the first sale rights.
15 years ago it was easy to find movie rentals for about $1 (this was VHS). That was in a manned mega music/video store with lots of overhead. Back then the video stored payed a mint for just released tapes. 15 years later when DVDs are cheaper than VHS used to be (despite inflation) a $5 rental (a la blockbuster) is totally wack. Imagine if a car rental cost 20% of the price of the car new… ($4000 to rent a Jetta for 1 week.) There would be no such thing as a car rental.
$1-$2 is the right price for a movie rental. This is why I use Redbox from time to time.
There is a reason I have absolutely never bought a PPV movie nor will I ever so long as the price is totally wrong… $5 for 24hrs… HA! I am voting with my dollars.
Why don’t the studios understand what the fast food industry learned so long ago… make your crappy products cheap and Americans will eat (buy) 10 times as much.
Redbox VS. Warner Brothers – Now at AllRise Community Court http://bit.ly/421q8d
If the studios would make movies worth re-watching, I’d buy a physical copy (DVD, Blu-Ray, whatever) to keep. We do this maybe a couple times a year – and it seems to be all Pixar films lately.
Heck, if they made movies worth watching period, then maybe we’d pay to watch them in theaters. (Which we do maybe three or four times a year as it is.)
As it is, RedBox gets our rentals because my family doesn’t feel it’s worth paying brick-and-mortar rental prices to watch a movie once. This wasn’t a decision we made after RedBox showed up.
Before RedBox: we didn’t rent at all
After RedBox: a couple bucks a month in rentals
So from my family’s perspective, we’re effectively neutral for the studios. I’m not going to claim RedBox is “better” for them in our case, since it’s negligible. Though who knows – maybe we’ll rent a movie we decide we’d like to buy.
Hard times bring out the worst in people.
You don’t care if your neighbor loses his job as long as you can save a buck or two on your DVD rentals? Are you insane or living on government assistance or wth is your problem?
The “cheaper-cheaper-cheaper” mantra is what got us here in the first place. It makes sense up to a point beyond which it becomes destructive. Just ask your friendly neighborhood farmer…
I hope that video stores do come up with fresh ideas and USP in order to survive. Some independent stores (like Scarecrow in Seattle) survived despite the Blockbusters and Hollywoods. Amazon et al haven’t killed all the bookstores, either – but only because some of us understand that buying decisions are political decisions plus we aren’t willing to give up things like author readings or browsing through an actual brick and mortar store, talking to a human being. Not to mention fair pricing issues (ask the publishers)… *cough.
Once the stores are gone, they’re gone for good. What next? I know – the coffee shops. Screw the baristas (many of whom are students). And the low to medium priced restaurants, who needs those? Eating there adds nothing. Much nicer to eat that same dinner in the comfort of our own home while watching a VOD, ain’t it? Screw the waiters (many of whom are students), let’s save money!
btw – the students, aspiring filmmakers etc. working at Blockbuster and the like sure appreciate the suggestion to apply for a hard labor job. I didn’t know that video store clerk was a high-paying job. I don’t mind some people making tons of money as long as they do spend it, right here in the US of A.
Next up: Reality TV. IS YOUR JOB OSOLETE? Are you adding value? Let us be the judge of that!
NURSE JACKIE: I need a pharmacist! No you don’t, he’s obsolete. Enjoy your job – at least you get to experience some human interaction. Looks like that’s going to be the exception in the not so distant future.
Tired of writing emails, texting and one-click-shopping? HUNG – get some human interaction, at your convenience and exactly to your liking. Really tired of your Blackberry, your ipod, your redbox? MENTAL – 28 days and you’ll be fit for another year or two of technology. All that convenience resulted in you getting out of shape? Fear not. MORE TO LOVE – there’s s.o. out there who thinks that’s okay…
Hey Jared.
Suck it.
Mkie already said what I was gonna say. A lot of you don’t have the facts.
Redbox has ALREADY bought the DVDs, and the studios are telling them, post sale, they can’t be rented for 28 days.
That’s like the guy you bought your car from telling you when you’re allowed to sell it.
Sorry, but in business you have to figure out how to compete. Hollywood wants it handed to them.
In general, I like Red Boxes approach in these circumstances, which is to petition the public directly.
I can’t help but get the feeling a lot of people like to talk about the free market without really understanding what the free market actually is.
In all reality many industries are just refusing to accept that with the introduction of new technologies, the amount that can be charged for luxury items has so much more to compete with these days.
As a community our interests are so much more overwhelmingly diverse and with so many more available entertainments we didn’t have only 10 years ago. Just think about how ‘fun’ cellular phones and the internet were. Also mentioning the ease of use involving both of the stated tech’s. only mention two examples, the success of Red Box is a reflection of market reality.
In a free market you cannot completely provide a good or service and control the value of the product and service. When prices are artificially kept high through the use of controls and credit, a system will eventually crash in on itself if it doesn’t do one of two things: Adjust it’s competitiveness or sacrifice consumer elements. This is reflected in all of the largest industries in the united states today and the longer we deny this as individuals, communities, and companies; the more it’s going to hurt when the system really crashes or in some cases, really florishes.
While I love Redbox, I’m actually surprised they didn’t have a revenue sharing agreement from the get go. I mean, all dvd’s at the very beginning of the video all say you can’t be doing what they are doing. I mean, couldn’t they set up that they like give back 5% of all rentals or something? I’m sure there is a # they can afford. I don’t see how what redbox is doing is any different from software/movie pirates in other country who sale software/movies/etc., which we all know is wrong. Though in that I think it’s the software/movie makers fault such exists because they won’t offer their titles at a more affordable rate in the country’s that they must. After all, if the pirates can do it, why can’t they???
Sadly, it’s likely going to be us consumers that loose in this. I hope Redbox wins this fight, after all, it makes seeing movies affordable for me, but I think they should also do the right thing and share the earnings, because it is after all not their intellectual property.
Understand, I share warez, so I’m all for free sharing of intellectual property both morally and intellectually, because after all 99% of those who use wares would never buy 99% of the warez they use because they couldn’t afford it anyway, free advertising, trained future users, etc., so it’s a lie that the developers are loosing money, but Redbox is a commercial enterprise, they should be giving something back to those who’s work such belongs too because Redbox is profiting from it.
What they should start doing is find a percent that they can afford to give back, and just start sending the money to those who own the movie rights. Then they are protected, and they can show that they are acting in good faith, and they and us will definitely win in the end. I worry though that because of greed and stuborness Redbox will ruin it for everyone. Anyway….
To those saying that people shouldn’t be able to get DVD’s and that Redbox puts people out of work….. to you I say, piss off!
Greedy movie studios and recording artists keep biting themselves in the arse with this greedy kind of move and it will be their ultimate demise. Punish the people who support you and pay your salary and make you wealthy? Sounds pretty stupid if you ask me.
And as for the people/job factor — well, I’ve never had crappy service from a Redbos kiosk, compared to the slow and bitter video store employees that I used to have to deal with. I’d rather stand behind a few people at a Redbox and do it myself than get crappy attitude and poor service from a BBuster worker or a Movie Gallery worker.
Redbox will prevail….. lookout Warner Studios……we know where you live.
Oh yeah…… and for every movie that they make Redbox wait to rent, I just go get it off of Pirate Bay. Howdaya like dem apples, big greedy movie studio…..? You lose lose brother. And I’m not the only one doing it.
A.M. get real already. You can’t compare video stores to other mainstream necessity based stores or business.
Now I couldn’t care less about starbucks and other coffee stores going the way of the turd in the bowl. People shouldn’t be spending 5 bucks for a cup of coffee anyway.
And yeah, if my “friend” lost his job so I could rent a cheaper DVD, hell yeah! (but the thing is, none of my friends would work in a video or coffee store LOL)
Get your head out of the sand and smell reality. It’s the world we live in. Things change and the video store has been climbing into that coffin for the past two years. Don’t blame it all on Redbox. If they buy the dvd’s then they have the right to rent them when they want to and as soon as they want. Once Warner, etal sells it, it’s no longer their property.