TUESDAY 10:45 AM: I’ve learned that NBC late night chief Rick Ludwin, a big Conan O’Brien supporter, was not consulted by The Two Jeffs — bigwigs Jeff Zucker and Jeff Gaspin. “When the decision was made, Gaspin and Zucker never brought Rick into it,” an insider told me this morning in disbelief. Meanwhile, sources tell me that private emails have been going out from high-level executives at NBC’s soon-to-be-owner Comcast saying, “What a mess.” The last remaining issue holding up the official announcement that Conan is out, and Leno in, at The Tonight Show is O’Brien’s continuing insistence that his staff, especially those who followed him from NY to LA, be taken care of by NBC.
TUESDAY 9 AM: NBC Universal Jeff Zucker last night told a shocked Charlie Rose in an exclusive conversation that the network’s late night moves have resulted in “death threats”. Playing the victim yet again, Zucker is tongue-tied when it’s suggested he should fall on his sword for all his missteps that have led NBC to be “in shambles”, as Rose said at the outset. Also, my insiders are accusing Zucker of lying on national television by telling Rose that there was no guarantee to Conan that The Tonight Show would start at 11:35 PM. “If there hadn’t been, do you think NBC would be paying him almost $40 million?” The full interview is here.
TUESDAY 6:30 AM: Last night Jay Leno talked in a serious and self defensive way about the late night fiasco and the circumstances surrounding his imminent return as host of The Tonight Show :
“I thought maybe I should address this. At least give you my view of what has been going on here at NBC. Oh, let’s start in 2004. 2004 I’m sitting in my office, an NBC executive comes in and says to me, listen, Conan O’Brien has gotten offers from other networks. We don’t want him to go, so we’re going to give him The Tonight Show. I said, ‘Well, I’ve been number one for 12 years.’ They said, ‘We know that, but we don’t think you can sustain that.’ I said, ‘OK. How about until I fall to No. 2, then you fire me?’ ‘No, we made this decision.’ I said, ‘That’s fine.’ Don’t blame Conan O’Brien. Nice guy, good family guy, great guy. He and I have talked and not a problem since then. That’s what managers and people do, they try to get something for their clients. I said, ‘I’ll retire just to avoid what happened the last time.’ OK.
So time goes by and we stay No. 1 up until the day we leave. We hand [applause]. No, no. OK, but I’m leaving before my contract is out. About 6 to 8 months early. So before I could go anywhere else, I would be at least a year or 18 months before I could go and do a show somewhere else. I said to NBC, ‘Would you release me from my contract.’ They said, ‘We want to keep you here.’ OK. What are your ideas? They said, ‘How about primetime?’ I said, ‘That will never work.’ ‘No, no, we want to put you on at 10:00. We have done focus groups. People will love you at 10:00. Look at these studies showing Jay’s chin at 10:00. People will go crazy.’ Didn’t seem like a good idea at the time. I said, ‘Alright, can I keep my staff?’ There are 175 people that work here. I said, ‘Can I keep my staff?’ Yes, you can. Let’s try it. We guarantee you 2 years on the air, guaranteed. ‘Now for the first 4 or 5 months against original shows like CSI, you’ll get killed, but in the spring and summer when the reruns come, that’s when you’ll pick up.’ OK, great. I agree to that.
Four months go by, we don’t make it. Meanwhile, Conan’s show during the summer, we’re not on, was not doing well. The great hope was that we would help him. Well, we didn’t help him any, OK. They come and go, ‘This show isn’t working. We want to let you go.’ Can you let me out of my contract? No, you’re still a valuable asset to this company. ‘How valuable can I be? You fired me twice. How valuable can I be?’ OK. So then, the affiliates are not happy. The affiliates are the ones that own the TV stations. They’re the ones that sort of makes the decisions, ‘They’re not happy with your performance and Conan is not doing well at 11:30.’ I said, ‘What’s your idea?’ They said, ‘Well, look, how about you do a half hour show at 11:30?’ Now, where I come from, when your boss gives you a job and you don’t do it well, I think we did a good job here, but we didn’t’ get the ratings, so you get humbled. I said, ‘OK, I’m not crazy about doing a half hour, but OK. What do you want to do with Conan?’ ‘We’ll put him on at midnight, or 12:05, keeps The Tonight Show, does all that, he gets the whole hour.’ I said, OK. You think Conan will go for that?’ ‘Yes, yes. [laughter] Almost guarantee you.’ I said OK. Shake hands, that’s it. I don’t have a manager, I don’t have an agent, that’s my handshake deal.
Next thing I see Conan has a story in the paper saying he doesn’t want to do that. They come back to me and they say, ‘If he decides to walk and doesn’t want to do it, do you want the show back?’ I go, ‘Yeah, I’ll take the show back. If that’s what he wants to do. This way, we keep our people working, fine.’ So that’s pretty much where we are. It looks like we might be back at 11:30, I’m not sure. I don’t know. [applause] I don’t know. But through all of this – through all of this, Conan O’Brien has been a gentleman. He’s a good guy. I have no animosity towards him. This is all business. If you don’t get the ratings, they take you off the air. I think you know this town, you can do almost anything. You get ratings they keep you. I don’t get ratings, he wants. That was NBC’s solution. It didn’t work so we might have an answer for you tomorrow. So, we’ll see. That’s basically where it is.”
SUNDAY AM: Below is Saturday Night Live‘s cold opening about the festering late night debacle about to end — now possibly Tuesday after the MLK long weekend – with NBC’s $40 million “don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out” payment to Conan O’Brien that also frees him to compete against Jay Leno immediately. Best line of the show was SNL Weekend Update anchor Seth Meyers’: “This week you didn’t need Cinemax to see someone screwed on TV.” It’s amazing and bewildering that the network keeps vigorously promoting this comedy of errors to the media via video clips of its own employees denigrating and humiliating the beleaguered brand. (I asked
one SNL insider if there was any behind-the-scenes bitching from the suits because of the NBC bashing. “None at all.”) Perhaps, at this nadir, NBC has to put ratings above its own reputation. Or maybe there’s just no defense possible. Although Jeff Zucker keeps desperately trotting out more and more NBC execs — first entertainment boss Jeff Gaspin, then sports czar Dick Ebersol, then news topper Steve Capus — to give dictation to The New York Times in support of himself. (When did stenography replace reporting there?) In that article, Zucker tries to play the victim of a media frenzy — but it was a self-inflicted wound. Hollywood is now hearing from people around Zucker how he’s “‘wiped out from his Conan ordeal’,” Deadline New York Editor Mike Fleming learned last night, “Zucker apparently scrapped plans to fly to LA with his family for tonight’s Golden Globes broadcast by NBC or the NBC Universal after-party.
At least that is how he is feeling at the moment.” Meanwhile, viewers weighed in on O’Brien’s Tonight Show episodes at NBC’s Hulu.com in the Team Conan vs Team Leno battle. Tags read ‘better than leno’, “amazing” and “conan>leno”, while Leno tags say ”lame,” “backstabber,” “irrelevant.” Then there’s this zinger from O’Brien’s longtime rep Gavin Palone. The manager sent an email to CBS mogul Les Moonves, while this mess unfolded, asking whether “a long time ago you planted Jeff Zucker there as a way to destroy NBC from inside.” Ouch!
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
“I thought maybe I should address this. At least give you my view of what has been going on here at NBC. Oh, let’s start in 2004. 2004 I’m sitting in my office, an NBC executive comes in and says to me, listen, Conan O’Brien has gotten offers from other networks. We don’t want him to go, so we’re going to give him The Tonight Show. I said, ‘Well, I’ve been number one for 12 years.’ They said, ‘We know that, but we don’t think you can sustain that.’ I said, ‘OK. How about until I fall to No. 2, then you fire me?’ ‘No, we made this decision.’ I said, ‘That’s fine.’ Don’t blame Conan O’Brien. Nice guy, good family guy, great guy. He and I have talked and not a problem since then. That’s what managers and people do, they try to get something for their clients. I said, ‘I’ll retire just to avoid what happened the last time.’ OK.
Four months go by, we don’t make it. Meanwhile, Conan’s show during the summer, we’re not on, was not doing well. The great hope was that we would help him. Well, we didn’t help him any, OK. They come and go, ‘This show isn’t working. We want to let you go.’ Can you let me out of my contract? No, you’re still a valuable asset to this company. ‘How valuable can I be? You fired me twice. How valuable can I be?’ OK. So then, the affiliates are not happy. The affiliates are the ones that own the TV stations. They’re the ones that sort of makes the decisions, ‘They’re not happy with your performance and Conan is not doing well at 11:30.’ I said, ‘What’s your idea?’ They said, ‘Well, look, how about you do a half hour show at 11:30?’ Now, where I come from, when your boss gives you a job and you don’t do it well, I think we did a good job here, but we didn’t’ get the ratings, so you get humbled. I said, ‘OK, I’m not crazy about doing a half hour, but OK. What do you want to do with Conan?’ ‘We’ll put him on at midnight, or 12:05, keeps The Tonight Show, does all that, he gets the whole hour.’ I said, OK. You think Conan will go for that?’ ‘Yes, yes. [laughter] Almost guarantee you.’ I said OK. Shake hands, that’s it. I don’t have a manager, I don’t have an agent, that’s my handshake deal.




If you are wondering why the suits did not pressure SNL over the (rather tepid) skits, you are missing a nuanced part of the ongoing NBC battle. There has always been a West Coast vs. East Coast rivalry at play in the hierarchy at NBC. The East coast suits are backing their guy, Conan. Lorne Michaels wold not hesitate to smack down a West Coast suit for interfering.
Thanks for the updates Nikki. But I’m DONE with this topic. DONE with NBC, ZUCKER, LENO! I’ll watch Letterman until CONAN pops up on another network.
His show has been brilliant, the last week and he has PROVEN to me “The Tonight Show” is a DEAD franchise the moment he leaves.
Congrats ZUCKER, you DESTROYED a once viable network.
Fred Silverman, the man who gave the greenlight to Supertrain, and Pink Lady & Jeff, called this fiasco a “corporate embarrassment.” That’s saying something.
As for the suits giving the SNL people grief, well one point is that Lorne Michaels still has a lot of clout at NBC, and two, no one wants to be the one on “Zucker’s side” in this issue, because it’s essentially all his fault anyway.
Yet he manages to somehow, perhaps supernaturally, hold onto his job. Which boggles the brainbox.
It’s not surprising at all that NBC & Zucker are okay with their high profile employees publicly bad mouthing them. In hollywood, any publicity is good publicity. NBC has not been this interesting or relevant in years.
The tags for the Leno clips on Hulu are hilarious: “backstabber, not funny, horrible, pathetic, hasbeencomic, twofaced.”
Zucker and Leno are both to blame. In mind, Zucher is bad enough; but Jay Leno should be man enough to say “NO!” Jay Leno has no character whatsoever. He is a backstabber, horrible and definitely NOT FUNNY!!!!
I haven’t heard much discussion of Comcast’s role/thoughts in all this. Didn’t they buy NBCU? Did they inherit the mess or help cause it (e.g., by siding with local affiliates)?
“It’s amazing and bewildering that the network keeps vigorously promoting this comedy of errors to the media via video clips of its own employees denigrating and humiliating the beleaguered brand.”
I think really that NBC is happy to have people watching for ANY reason… I have to believe that all of their ratings are up just because people are tuning in to watch the train wreck and what people are saying about it. What do they say about press? As long as you spell the name right? “NBC” is pretty easy to get right.
Jeff Zucker comes out has damage goods. Does he have a future at NBC or is he on his way out?
RE: the SNL parody. Can Fred Armisen please, for the love of God, lower his voice when playing people who have deep voices? I mean, it’s not hard to make your voice sound gravelly and Larry King-ish. And his Obama is horrible and could be fixed by simply lowering his voice, too. I mean, he’s literally just speaking in his normal voice in these sketches. It’s almost insulting, like putting any effort into an accurate portrayal is beneath him. Fred, please read this and feel bad about yourself.
Let your cursor linger over the Jay Leno Show link on hulu and you will see this!
The Jay Leno Show
Channel: Comedy
10 Episodes, 644 Clips
“The Jay Leno Show” promises more comedy in the 10 o’clock hour and will showcase many of the features that have made Leno America’s late-night leader for more than a dozen years.
Tags: egomaniac, epic failure, unfunny, lame old boring tired fail, loser
Why didn’t NBC run re-runs instead of letting Conan bash their network? They’re increasing the popularity of the guy they’re firing while making the guy they’re keeping look like a douche bag. Two weeks of good ratings for months or years of damage.
yah, they should have pulled the plug immediately. who is going to hire conan anyway after his squawking? If he doesn’t get his way…
“Who is going to hire Conan anyway…” Really? I mean…REALLY??? I want to respond to this comment but it’s so without any shred of rational thought or common sense my brain is malfunctioning.
REALLY?!?!
FOX, that’s who.
LOL, I love that NBC “Logo.” SNL ripped NBC last night. From Jason Sudeikis’ grinning, pencil throwing David Letterman, to Seth Meyers comparing the situation to having two wives, and his joke about how all of it could lead to Jimmy Fallon returning to SNL and “I cannot go back to being in a sketch once every three weeks.” Classic.
The bit during Weekend Update that Seth did (not the funny joke about being screwed, but a bit about the hosts being like marriage) was MUCH funnier than that clip above. Which was not very funny at all.
See if you can find that and post it up please!
This was not funny…
TEAM COCO!!
It’s amazing the NBC could be this incompetent. While I’m not a fan of these guys, the fact that they let Conan on the air this week to completely lambast the network and the people running it just boggles the mind. They have, in essence, helped Conan’s cause by giving him a major voice. Now it looks like, against all sanity, they are going to continue to let Conan go on for another week.
And who was the brains behind letting Kimmel on the Jay Leno show after he did an unflattering impression of Jay for his entire broadcast? Two chimps and a raccoon on meth could do a better job at handling this whole mess. And this isn’t even mentioning the fact that the original deal to take Leno off the the air was made to avoid a distaster like they had with Letterman.
I won’t be surprised, either, if in two years we’re hearing about Leno’s permanent retirement. His ratings may take a hit when he returns to “Tonight”. If he gets trounced by Letterman, his legacy as the “Tonight Show” host would be in the toilet, and a long-standing nightly tradition might never recover.
I can’t wait to read all about this in “The Late Shift 2″.
Jeff Zucker is a douche bag. He’s destroyed NBC. How does this putz survive? Really NBC, how does this moron survive? NBC deserves to go down like the Titanic.
Intertesting how through all of this turmoil not a word from
Conan’s executive producer Lorne Michaels…not a word!
Lorne Michaels isn’t involved with O’Brien’s Tonight Show, in any form.
His Exec Producer status is with Late Night w/Jimmy Fallon. Probably the reason he’s stayed quiet, and the reason Fallon has stayed right on the fence – They have to continue working with whoever is their lead-in… Privately, I’m sure they’ve got opinions.
Incorrect… Lorne was the guy who originally put Conan up for the Late Night job. Lorne’s has been a major supporter of Conan for years, and major behind the scenes player in much of Conan’s career.
JAY screwed CONAN & NBC 10pm viewers. He put on a lousy, BORING tired old show; his EGO drove him to THINK he could replace BELOVED dramas. NOW, he THINKS he can take over from Conan – robbing CONAN’s fans.
JAY should retire. IF he gets even 3-mill viewers, he’ll be LUCKY. He got Dave’s JOB w/DIRTY TRICKS. Everyone HATES “dirty pool” which is all Jay’s played on NBC. BOTH JAY & NBC deserves what’s coming — their downfall. Does ANYBODY care what Leno thinks anymore? Nope. He’s proved his only interest is HIMSELF. He will be FODDER for comedians for YEARS!
Jay never had the CLASS of Johnny Carson or Letterman. Nobody likes Back-stabbers.
WHY can’t Jay RETIRE gracefully? Instead, he’ll go ALL THE WAY DOWN w/nbc’s sinking ship! SAD.
Whatever network gets CONAN will be getting the GOLD MINE & its execs will laugh (at nbc & leno) ALL THE WAY to the bank.
Anytime somebody screws somebody ELSE — they’ll say “he pulled a LENO” and look where it got HIM.
Leno is in the running for the MOST HATED (over the hill) MAN in America.
conan would have been fired, with or without leno………
fact….when jay was on the tonight show he made 15 – 18 million for the network,
when conan took over…….losses at 3 million and counting.
it’s simple business
and after seen jay tonight, we can easily tell who has class…….and it isn’t COCO
I like when people use the word “fact” as if they were placing a flag on a country already populated by indigenous people. I claim this fact for the country of Second Hand Information and Tedious Speculation! Their flag sports a bull if curious.
C stands for class and Conan, it’s good enough for me and the 18-49 demographic.
When will Conan man-up and admit that he failed to bring in the ratings expected of him? Or will he continue to shift blame to others?
I’m not much of a fan of late night shows, but Conan will never do this because he got screwed. I can understand if you don’t like the guy, but the fact is he was completely undermined by his own network from day one. AND he had only a fraction of the time Jay was given to make a hit show, with NO programming support in the 10PM hour while still folllowing Jay doing a talk show and pulling guests as well. The whole thing is hilariously inept on NBC’s part and it’s no wonder O’Brien is furious.
Screwed or not is certainly subjective. The problem with the argument that Conan wasn’t give a fair amount of time to grow an audience isn’t credible. O’Brien has been on NBC for 15+ years at 12:35 doing the same show he’s doing now. His humor didn’t transfer well to the earlier hour and older audience (losing nearly 50% of the previous Leno Tonight Show audience). Granted lead-in and local news numbers are important but reality is that Conan was losing audience share BEFORE Leno took over at 10PM while Leno stayed pretty much constant after the first weeks higher (as expected) ratings. There is plenty of blame to go around in this mess but neither Leno or O’Brien deserve any of it – it was poorly handled by the suits at NBC since 2004 when, in order to keep Conan from jumping to ABC or FOX, the wrote a contract giving him the Tonight Show in 2009 with no idea whatsoever of what the status of that show woudl be (#1) at by then.
Why should he admit that, when regardless of whether or not it’s true, it isn’t the reason for this whole issue?
It was Leno’s failure to bring the ratings expected of him (by affiliates, if not the network), which prompted the move from 10 to 11:35, which in turn prompted Conan’s response not wanting to move the Tonight Show.
Conan’s ratings have little to do with this whole situation.
Ah, but you’re making a misstatement. Conan was on the air for some months before The Jay Leno Show came on at 10. His numbers began tanking then. Even before he became the host of TTS, he was losing to Craig Ferguson fairly regularly at 12:30.
Conan is not entirely blameless in this mess, truly.
However, I would like to direct everyone to the front page of today’s (Sunday) New York Times. The Front Page, people! Devastating article about just how deeply Jeff Zucker zucked up NBC.
Required reading. Absolutely. Required. reading.
I’m aware of the ratings situation, but I beleive NBC made a huge mistake moving away from someone who’s audience is so much younger, and as we’ve seen, more loyal, and active than any of the other Late Night hosts.
As I said, I’m not disputing the ratings themselves, I’m simply saying that those ratings were never “an abysmal failure”, as NBC hasx tried to claim since, and weren’t the reason for the mess that the netwrok now finds themselves in.
My feeling is that, because of the way NBC organized the Leno/Conan transition, NBC crippled both Conan and Leno from the very first. Conan got an OK PR campaign when he took over the Tonight Show, but just OK, and it looks to me as if he had a hard time booking true A list guests because of the battle between his bookers and Leno’s bookers.
I think another problem here is that Conan was running straight against Stephen Colbert, and the Colbert and Conan potential audiences are pretty much the same people. Conan’s actual audience was probably people who would have been watching Colbert, but are nostalgic about broadcast television or haven’t bothered to buy cable.
That’s the long and short of it. The numbers. Conan at the helm of the Tonight Show lost the number one late night rating and his numbers were eroding further. While there has been a bump in his veiwers due to the debacle, it’s doubtful they would have lasted. And ponder that his own production company is saying nothing. It’s a business, no badly how run, it’s a business in the end.
But it took more than a year for Leno to catch up with Letterman, and Leno spent that year catching up at a time when the NBC primetime schedule was doing great.
I would guess he’ll admit that as soon as Leno admits lead ins are important… something he aknowledged in 11.09 when asked why his show was doing badly (he blamed bad lead ins). http://bit.ly/7XOPhq
Maybe NBC will admit first year ratings aren’t everything when they remember that also tried to ditch Leno in his first year on The Tonight Show due to tanking ratings…. something that would nto have been smart.
I’ve searched & cannot find a quote of Jay blaming lead-ins for his 10:00 ratings. Can you please post a link to that quote or video?
Conan did not have the advantage of a reasonable lead-in. Leno killed viewership, which translated into lower numbers for the local news (interestingly, NBC expected a 1.5, Leno delivered a 1.5, NBC anticipated a profit of $3-400 million, but why NBC executives thought the affiliates would be satisfied with having their profit margins evaporate is inexplicable.) Leno’s stint on the Tonight Show also began slowly but he always had a reasonable prime time schedule to help out. It’s also funny that not only is Leno killing the news, and Conan, and Fallon, he’s also hurting the Today show the next morning.
Last night, while watching an episode of 30 ROCK with the NBC logo tucked down in the corner, all I could think was how ‘beleaguered’ the NBC brand actually isn’t.
Go go, CoCo!
I love Conan but the truth is his start at TONIGHT was, to put it mildly, shaky. Why we needed to wait till this debacle to unfold to finally see the good ole ballsey Conan we all love?
Why?
NEWS FLASH!!! The New York Times has issued a correction to the quote attributed to Jeff Zucker in this Sunday’s NYT’s business section. NEWS FLASH!!!
It read:
“I think part of why there’s been such a visceral reaction to this is we’ve talked about change and taking risks, and that’s something I’ve always been associated with,” Mr. Zucker said. “And not being afraid to take chances.”
It should have read:
“I think part of why there’s been such a visceral reaction to this is we’ve talked about change and taking risks, and that’s something I’ve always been associated with,” Mr. Zucker said. “And not being afraid to take chances. And congratulate myself for taking chances even while simultaneously re-categorizing unbelievably poor and expensive failures–”Joey,” “Coupling,” the “No-Pilot” season and surrendering five hours of the most valuable part of the prime-time schedule to a 61-year old comic who is, quite frankly out of gas–as risk-taking.”
NO word on why the reporter/dictation secretary from the New York Times left the latter part of the quote out of the story.
Newsflash! I just retrieved the tapes from the interview!!!
Here’s another unprinted quote:
“It’s funny because one time this underling named Ben Silver-something made a bunch of bad calls. And he said ‘Jeff, I thought you said taking risks was good! Don’t fire me, bro.”
“And I laughed,” said Zucker. “I said no no no, you don’t understand. Let me explain to you how this works,” said Zucker. “When people who work for me make bad decisions, I call those ‘bad decisions.’ When I make a bad decision, I pat myself on the back for taking a risk.
“So anyway this Silver – I can’t remember his name – this Ben guy says ‘that makes no sense’ and all I could say was ‘You know you really let me down, Ben.”
I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of how much all those NBC affiliates “let NBC down” for getting such poor ratings on their newscasts, too.
They’ll cancel Jay for THAT… but won’t give Conan the same benefit of that logic? HIS ratings are HIS fault — but affilate newscast ratings downturn is JAY’S fault (so to speak). Why isn’t anyone talking about THAT?
The spin seems to be that, “Conan failed,” but NBC didn’t really fail, it was just “an experiment that didn’t work” — so therefore Jay didn’t really fail either… and through all this we still “get” to keep Jimmy Fallon, who wasn’t Faillon’ at all! Despite MUCH lower ratings than Conan had last year… but oh yeah, Jimmy had a poor lead-in too, that’s right. Conan meanwhile can’t blame the local news, can he! That would be chicken-hearted, or something.
right on Jonny Q. When is everyone going to start realizing that Jay was carried by affiliates before the move, and without it he failed. I will never watch Jay again if he steals the Tonight Show for the second time.
Last night I watched SNL for the first time in over a year. It was as bad as ever and the musical guest made me want to projectile vomit, but the Weekend Update dig at NBC was funny.
Anyone in Los Angeles, come to the I’m With Coco Rally at Universal Gate 2 tomorrow, monday, at 12-4pm! Wear orange or red. Save Conan! Screw Jay!
great way to honor Dr King’s memory
When will idiots like you realize that Conan’s ratings dropped BECAUSE of Leno’s horrible lead in show.
Go back to your shit kicking, Jesus Loving, racist loving, trailer park, you furking Drudgebot.
What caused Conan’s low ratings his first few months when Leno was NOT his lead in? Why did people decide to watch Letterman instead of Conan?
Conan’s ratings were crap before Leno became his lead in last fall. When Leno led the 11:35 time slot, his top lead in then couldn’t help Conan’s 12:35 crappy ratings. A good lead in did not help Conan then or now.
Conan demanded & took the top late night show away from Jay and turned it into a crapheap all by himself.