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UPDATES I Feel Your Pain Over Kurtzman And Orci
Whenever I mention Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci to bigtime screenwriters and producers who can’t get anything going now, a lot of teeth-gnashing and profanity-spewing ensues. And the last time I wrote about the writing team, the comments section spewed hate about what hacks they are. Because “The Boys Of Summer 2009″, as their flack gushes about them, wrote and produced Star Trek, scripted Transformers 1 and 2, and received exec producer credits for The Proposal, and have more movies in development or in production than any other Hollywood writers right now. So let’s pour more fuel on this fire. The scripters now have a fat new 3-year overall deal at 20th Century Fox TV. They’re already co-creators and consulting producers on Fox’s Fringe. So let the ragefest begin…
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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If this keeps up the only way any writer will be able to find work in Hollywood is if Kurtzman and Orci hire them to ghost-write some of their upcoming 200+ writing assignments and development deals a year.
I’m all for people having success, but this is getting ridiculous.
FOX?! Whatever happened to their dream of working under Spielberg with a deal at the ‘new’ Dreamworks?
Whatever happened to them making their (joint) directing debut with that thriller at Warner Bros? Has that gone the way of flesh?
And what’s going on with FOX signing up all of the ‘new’ Dreamworks’ on lot talent. First Red Hour and now this.
I admit, I do enjoy Fringe. Though in saying that, Star Trek is the very worst written summer film I have seen in years. Even Transformers 2 at least didn’t pretend to be anything other than Bay’s merchandise commercial.
Personally, I don’t care for their work, but I still respect them for knowing how to create commercial product. Congrats to them for their accomplishments!
I remain amused by the opinion that holds that Hollywood is about producing art: It’s business, plain and simple.
What’s successful art? The answer depends upon who you ask.
What’s successful business? The answer depends upon the bottom line.
I don’t agree with this reality, though I accept it as a writer.
From what I understand, these guys are actually very nice guys and they take the poison spit that’s thrown their way in stride. There’s one thing these guys do very well and that’s big action. Any time they need to do subtlety their scripts become cringe-worthy. It’s no doubt they work with Michael Bay who has the exact same issues. Whatever “Star Trek” was, it was the most fun I had in the theater last year, even with the gaping plot holes and hackneyed emotional moments.
Like someone above said, hate the game not the player. These guys being so big is more a symptom f where the business is than their talent. Obviously, bombastic CG action-porn is all the rage, and these guys write very well for that.
Agree with RB. Met the guys only once but they were very nice. Hollywood wants popcorn fluff and they write it well. They are smart, business-minded screenwriters with good agents. Don’t knock them because THE BICYCLE THIEF is your favorite movie and McKee thinks they’re hacks.
Hear hear Indrid.
Bravo to everyone here who is happy for them. It’s clear and simple that everyone else is jealous.
This is hysterical. Writers are the most bitter people on Earth, more than actors. Everyone knows that films like Transformers 2 are put through the meat grinder by every studio exec, producer, actor and spouse that comes into contact it. Then come focus groups and last minute changes. Every writer on this board trashing these fortunate and talented guys would kill for a shot at that script, and when an exec asked for inane specific changes, they would say thank you, make the changes and blow him afterward.
For the Orci/Kurtzman apologists out there let me lay out the case for they are such rotten excuses for writers and why you’re a dumbass if you defend them in any shape, form or fashion.
For all their bluster the O/K apologists have YET to say anything good about them or their “work.”
When your ONLY defense of a movie, or it’s writers, is to apologize for them, and then proclaim that movies SHOULD be bad, that says more about you than it does them.
I know there’s a lot of studio plants who pimp “the boys of summer” in forums like these, so let me ask them to tell us all which of these fine Orci/Kurtzman scripts I ought to be cheering for.
Transformers. Michael Bay started filming Transformers 1 BEFORE the script was even finished, which tells us how important Orci/Kurtzman’s scripts are to the people forced to film them. Transformers could have been about more than just a hyper-edited, CGI-fest, but in the hands of two hack writers and Michael Bay it became loud, flashy and boring.
Transformers 2: Skids and Mudflaps. Nuff said!
Mission Impossible 3: The film than turned Tom Cruise from an international mega-star into a struggling has-been. Way to go “Boys of Summer.” Only you two pukes could destroy an indestructible career!
Star Trek: Spock makes out with Uhura, some Romulans get pissed off that Romulus got blown up, so they goes to the past –through a BLACK HOLE that destroys everything else that enters it, like say Vulcan!!!– stays there for 25 years, in which time PLENTY of people have told them Romulus still exists, but in all that time it never occurs to them to ask, “Say, why don’t we go and take a look at the old neighborhood”?
BTW, when the Romulan ship gets crushed by the black hole at the end I almost puked. How could it pass safely through a black hole at the beginning of the movie then get crushed by one at the end?
Welcome to the logic of Orci/Kurtzman!
They “reinvented” Trek by using the most overused and unpopular Trek cliche (timetravel) using the two guys who embody classic (or as they tried to characterize it, “old) Trek.
Now, the standard reply the O/K apologists give is “Well, they made money and that’s all that counts. So that proves they’re good.”
Oh really?
Then what went wrong with The Island then?. It was their first, and not surprisingly, their ONLY non-franchise film. Guess when there’s not a popular toy, or TV series, or pre-existing film series attached to a project they have trouble turning on the old magic.
That’s what a “hack” is. Got it now? I’ll bet you don’t because if you’re retarded enough to defend these two then simple English might as well be Martian.
Orci/Kurtzman (and their movies) are like the Tin Man, Scarecrow and Cowardly Lion of filmmaking. They’ve got no heart, no brains and balls! They make movies for people who hate good storytelling, intelligence or movies for that matter.
I’ve laid out the case why they undeniably stink. Let’s see their apologists disprove any part of if.
I’ll wait! LOL
Their success is a precedent not a blocker. It’s been done. Stop bitching and get out there. The key to their success is appealing to the kid in all of us. Maybe they should have written Precious.
Weak people. really weak. These guys projects get made, are generally big, entertain and employ lots of people. Fringe is original, Star Trek was fantastic (best opening sequence of a film all year. They re-invented scfi. I like what they create and so do millions of others. Haters, everyone of you. Sad.
While you’re more than welcome to enjoy the projects these fine gentleman have had the good fortune to have their names attached to, Fringe is hardly original and they certainly didn’t “re-invent sci-fi”. I think Syfy did that. Further, employing people in service of propagating more mediocre material is far sadder a predicament.
Never met them, can’t speak to whether they are nice people, and I’d probably break a bottle over their heads just as easily as say hello.
However, this is a ridiculously slanted post. Jealousy’s a bitch. The same people who think their careers were stolen by them are the same people who complain that their psychic got their cards wrong. Don’t like their work? Tough shit, an audience does. Don’t like their success? Tough shit, their success came by way of sacrifice, hard work and a high tolerance for failure. You know, the prerequisites for success that you’ve ignored like a faithful acolyte of MTV.
It’s funny, Nikki. In one post you talk about how much Star Trek was robbed for best picture at the Oscars, and in the next sentence you are hating on the same people responsible for the movie (along with JJ Abrams).
Make up your mind…and guys and gals, their success is what this business is all about. They are living the dream, and it can happen to anyone of you out there.
Didn’t see Transformers. But the Island — I was really enjoying it right up to the point where the whole thing comes down to two guys pummeling each other. Maybe somebody can explain how that is good writing?
@ Emerson Brooks: I thoroughly enjoyed STAR TREK having seen it in the theatres twice and twice on blu-ray. I think they did a bang-up jobs and made a lot of fans and non-fans happy.
That said… they did not reinvent sci-fi by any means. Re-invigorated it, definitely, yes. Reinvent? definitely not.
Good for them. Schadenfreude/jealousy/bitterness is all too easily brewed in this town. Why not enjoy their success? I’ve also found it useful to take all of my ill will and aim it at a single target. In this way, the bile is vented in an economical fashion while reaping a minimum of karmic blowback.
So basically I loathe Diablo Cody and love everybody else. This works for me.
I worked with Bob and Alex years ago, before they became, well, Bob and Alex. They were and are two very smart and talented writers who understand the business, know what it takes to write successful film and TV franchises, and have shown time and again that they have the talent and drive to make it happen. They don’t pretend to be Robert Towne, Joe Mankewitz, Garson and Kanin, John Huston, or any of the other legendary screenwriters of the past. They are writers for today’s audience. They know their audience, they know how to deliver stories that appeal to that audience, and rather than tearing them down out of spite or jealousy, other writers would do well to try to understand what it is that Kurtzman and Ortiz get that the rest of you don’t.
Dogging these guys for starting on Xena is pretty ridiculous. If you were a struggling writer looking for a break and somebody offered you a job on Xena, you’d take it. Brian Helgeland started with 976-EVIL, if memory serves…
All the best, guys.
If they’re doing well, good for them, but I hope the next Star Trek movie has a better bad guy and a plot that makes at least a little more sense.
If anyone doesn’t understand the reasons why these fellows are in the drivers seat then they have NO IDEA how this business works. Get a life people stop pretending you are in the business.
Here’s a free tip you can tell your grand kids as you lie about why your masterpiece didn’t get produced: You didn’t have a picture that made 200 million dollars so you were kept out of the game. Genius writer that you were. Fools, get back to the boonies.
We can all only wish for their success and creative freedom that this deal will grant them now and in the future. These guys write action movies that are fun and suspenseful and have made whatever studio they work a gazillion dollars. Good for them and keep it up guys!
I schlepped down from Seattle to see these guys talk at a WGA (Writers Guild of America) session in Los Angeles.
Not only are they good peeps, but they are funny and personable as well. The way I look at their success is this: I don’t hate on the hordes of mediocre baseball, basketball, football and pro hockey players who make millions for being a den of suck, or the armies of pathetic Wall Street financiers who get anointed as gazillion-dollar bonus babies as the economy orbits the drain.
These guys make millions — and (wait for it) don’t suck.
Have they had a turkey? Sure, Tranny II (mike bay’s baby) wasn’t exactly something to raise Joseph Campbell from the grave of storytelling, though he’s probably roto-tilling in it. It was THAT bad.
But it made money. It entertained the way a hot but vapid girl you meet on match.com can make you forget about the world over a two-hour meal, and you know you’re OK because you are NOT marrying her; it’s just dinner.
Plus, the rest of the stuff Orci and Kurtzman do is good AND makes money, which employs hundreds of set decorators, video effects people, editors, etc. in a moribund economy. So they’re a two-person economic stimulus package for Hollywood, and if they’re successful they can help others fulfill their vision buy hiring them for projects or buying scripts, etc.
Finally, it takes a lot of courage to face the tyranny of the blank computer screen and conjure a tale you hope millions will find entrancing. I doff my hat to people like these two dudes (along with — don’t hate me — Tyler Perry and Quentin Tarantino — who know how to bring eyeballs to the screen, and grace the Big Screen with product that is above average to AWESOME.
Don’t hate the playa, hate the game.
Looks like these guys will be employed for a long, long time. I bet they will be getting a lot of writers trying to be their friends in the next 2 years.
I love their work. Love what they do. Kudos to them. I’d kill to be in their shoes. And I’m pretty sure the most extreme anti-K.O. posts here are by the chaps themselves, hehe.
I’m not a fan of their work but the bottom line is that they deliver what the producers/directors ask for and are reportedly very easy to work with. And while I think most of what they do is almost laughably flawed, the masses seem to enjoy the projects that they’ve worked on and it’s all about the bottom line.
All anyone can really do is try to look at how they’ve built their brand and try to emulate (and improve upon) it.
Did everyone in the movie biz attend Crossroads School at some point?