Diane Haithman is contributing to Deadline’s TCA coverage.
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Is a spy drama with two black actors as the male-female romantic leads a revolution for network television? At TCA today, the producers of NBC’s upcoming Undercovers, which is just such a show — hemmed and hawed in answering the question that really shouldn’t be a question in 2010 but, well, still is.
First of all, take note that it is incorrect to call stars Gugu Mbatha-Raw and Boris Kodjoe African-American players – she’s British, he’s German, and both are of mixed race. But Kodjoe and executive producer Josh Reims both said on today’s show panel that you can’t really step back from the social significance of the casting.
At first, Josh Reims, co-creator/executive producer of Undercovers with J.J. Abrams, downplayed the casting, implying that it was almost coincidental: “When J.J. and I wrote the script originally, we decided we wanted to write it like the [1940 movie] Philadelphia Story, with Katherine Hepburn and Cary Grant … but they’re dead so we didn’t hire them,“ he joked. “[We said] Let’s just see every possible incarnation of person [so we won’t end up with] the same people we’ve seen on TV a million times…Boris and Gugu came in, and we sort of knew immediately, these are them. We didn’t go out of our way to say we are hiring two black people to be the leads of our show, but we didn’t ignore it either. “
But then a questioner once again pushed Reims to admit to the deliberateness of the casting. “Why is it so hard to say?” the critic asked.
“It’s not hard to say at all, it’s true,” Reims acknowledged. “But we were not going to hire two black people because they were two black people. We don’t consider we are revolutionizing TV, at the same time we realize it is a big deal.”
Continued Reims: “Ever since the casting of this show was announced, other shows have cast black leads that, who knows, maybe wouldn’t have happened. Our plan was not, let’s revolutionize all the history of TV,.…we’re just trying to figure out who the characters are rather than worrying about how we cast it at this point.”
For his part, actor Kodjoe insisted that the race issue is important. “It’s not the norm, but it should be the norm, because that’s what the world looks like,” he mused. “We have a chance to be train blazers or door openers or whatever you want to call it; on the other hand, let’s inspire people to think of it as normal. Not people taking a chance, but just being creative. “
Does the diversity issue play out behind the scenes – in other words, does the show have any black writers, and if so, were they hired for their race?
Again, Reims answered this question in the “yes and no” mode. There are two. “I don’t now if we’re breaking ground with black writers, there are two on staff who are just really good writers,” he said. “I’d be lying if I didn’t notice they were black… Obviously I’m not black, and J.J. is even less black than I am.”
But Reims hopes that race will become less relevant as time goes on. “I was on Chicago Hope, and we had doctors who were black, and we had one black writer,” Reims recalled. He added that this writer was often asked: “ ‘You’re the black writer, so what would they say?” which was ridiculous. If they [the black writers on Undercovers] can inform anything that I can’t inform, then that’s great.”
Even though co-creator/executive producer J.J. Abrams did not attend the panel, Reims said after the session that he is “very involved” in production and insisted on directing the pilot episode.


If asking “You’re the black writer, so what would they say?” is “ridiculous”, why did Chicago Hope hire a black writer? What is the difference between a black writer and a white writer? What does the black writer bring to the table that white or brown writers do not?
I do not understand why a writer’s race would even be mentioned or acknowledged unless there is an implicit understanding that there *ARE* cultural and linguistic differences between races, even though we as a society kept getting told by Hollywood and the government that we’re all the same and that there are no differences between us and that it is racist and politically incorrect to state that there are differences.
I think you mat have missed the point. I don’t remember reading that the black writer on Chicago Hope was hired because he was black. I think you’re doing some of your own projecting there. He or she, like the other writers, were hired because they had what it takes to do the job. He or she just happened to be black. The reason why it’s “ridiculous” is because there’s no reason why these black characters can’t be written by a person outside theirs race, just like a black writer has the capacity to write for the thousands of white characters on TV. Why should the race of the writer matter when it comes to writing creative dialogue? It’s lovely that they have black people in the writers room. I love that. But the idea that they are the only ones who cab write dialogue for the black leads is “ridiculous.”
No point missed…no projection. I never thought “the black writer” was hired for any other reason than talent. What I asked, and continue to ask, is why make the race of any writer an issue, positively or negatively, if we’re “all the same”? Why does a writing staff “need” a black writer or a Latino writer or an Asian writer or an Indian writer if, presumably, a staff of 15 white writers or a staff of 15 black writers would have written these characters exactly the same and with the same level of talent? All things being equal, the race of the writers *should not* even be a relevant factor in hiring, yet it appears to be just so by the very people who claim it shouldn’t be and isn’t.
This is what is going to happen: the show will either become a huge hit because middle-aged white Americans watched it and liked it and all the usual race hustlers in America will come out and start complaining that the leads “act white” or “sound white” and that the show is not ‘authentically black’ nor reflects the lives of average, hardworking, poor black families (duh) nor ‘down with their struggle’, or the show will fail and all the usual race hustlers in America will come out and start complaining that racism led to people not watching the show because white people aren’t ready to accept hard-working, successful, middle-to-upper-class black people on their television sets (The Cosby Show and President Obama notwithstanding).
And probably lost in every bit of criticism and analysis of the show is the fact that we’ve kind of seen this set up before with MR AND MRS SMITH and TRUE LIES and that the premise is hardly original.
You live in a dreamworld. Race is everything, world wide.
Presumably, the black Chicago Hope writer was hired because s/he was a really good writer, not because of their color.
Um… Then again, there is the tendency for some shows to only hire black writers if/when they have black characters in the show… Probably because it’s believed that black people have no idea about the lives of white people (given the lack of exposure, of whites in the media and everything) and so would have nothing to contribute and, conversely, it’s unlikely, for instance, that a white writer would ever know how a black doctor would talk… “Yo, mo’fvkaz! I’ma ’bout ta lectrocute dis here b!tch. Kleer!”
Yep, still sounds ridiculous – but at least the brother/sister got a gig.
You are absolutely right. But why won’t anyone just talk about the disgusting truths when it comes to race? The truth is in hollywood and most glaringly television, blacks are largely ignored. If a show with white doctors has to hire a writer they will not, ever, never never, ever hire a black writer over a white one, never, ever. These hiring practices are justified because television is largely viewed by the white middle class??? BULLSHIT! Many whites have written about black lives and have written many books about black people…but how often has it been the other way around?? Whites don’t believe blacks can offer an objective perspective on white culture…
The producers of Undercovers wanted to do something unconventional so they hired black leads…this show will fail because I believe it is far more interesting to look in on black lives, and not spy’s who happen to be black.
I’m quite sure their race will not be in issue in any episode..ever!
but at least the brother/sister got a gig…damn right!
I honestly don’t care what ‘color’ they are. As a huge Abrams fan I’m wildly excited to see Undercovers.
If casting two ‘black’ leads in a show of this nature is trail blazing, then great! If not, then who cares?
I’m fairly certain that in this day and age most people watch tv to be entertained, regardless of the skin color of the person(s) on screen.
As a black actor, I could not have said it better myself. Its almost like my words were being told to you as you typed this comment. Kudos.
I noticed you were on Heroes. Tell me or don’t tell me if you think Tim Kring was the reason for the downfall of Heroes. It’s okay if you don’t want to talk about it, I understand that.
am excited about this show for many reasons.
is the cast inspired by Barack and Michelle?
No, because Boris is handsome and masculine. And Gugu is pretty and charming.
Stop projecting !!
Saw the pilot – this couple is terrific! What a breath of fresh air. Never heard of them before which is why it’s so good. Can’t we just watch the show for what it is and just accept them as good actors with great chemistry, not black actors? The show works, leave it at that.
So JJ could attend Comic Con for an Entertainment Weekly Joss Whedon circle jerk but not this? Nice priorities. Wasn’t he paid $1 million for this pilot?
Meanwhile the hotness and sexual chemistry between the leads is LITERALLY the only thing this show has going for it. They’re very lucky they found these two gorgeous people because the show is humdrum without them.
“…breaking ground with black writers, there are two on staff…” Slow down, I think you should start off with one. Who cares if there or two or more. Like a viewer watching TV is going to be able to tell between black and white writer. Well… BET is an exception.
Blacks are 12.5% of the population, so in America, no, most people do NOT look like the leads, including Kodjoe. Sorry. If anything, Hispanics are under-represented, but that’s because they watch Univision or Telemundo, so there is no sense catering to them.
The people who watch Broadcast TV are overwhelmingly White, middle class, and mostly middle aged. To catch their attention you have to have stories that they like.
Its also not the “first” time Network TV has had two black leads: The Jeffersons, Good Times, Tenafly, Sanford and Son, all come to mind. As does Gabriel’s Fire with James Earl Jones, much later.
If anything, the success of BET has moved off much of the potential Black audience, since the 1970′s and 1980′s.
But the fact remains: America in the 1970′s MADE HIT SHOWS WITH TWO BLACK LEADS. Sanford and Son, the Jeffersons, and Good Times were all top hits. So there is nothing new here.
Undercovers is only trail-blazing if History began ten minutes ago.
Ahhhhh, Hollywood. The last, best hope for diversity. As long as we’re only talking about skin color. And as long as everybody’s niiiiiiiiiice and Liberal.
Yes and with the country being running by liberal politics of not taxing the wealthy and continuous war, high priced health care, outsourced jobs etc. Makes the entertainment industry just look like ass kissers.
Um. Those shows were all comedies. NOT A NETWORK PRIME TIME DRAMA WITH TWO BLACK ROMANTIC LEADS. There is a difference. The leads weren’t connectively romantic in nature. In film they would automatically label it a “BLACK MOVIE” which is why who Will Smith and Halle Berry (most people consider them the most successful Black actors) are rarely seen with other Black actors romantically unless it’s some dramatic bio-pic or social drama (Seven Pounds, Ali, Monster’s Ball…oh wait Diddy died). This is a big deal.
Hispanics are very underrepresented, and they do NOT all watch Spanish-catered TV especially since a lot of Hispanics don’t even speak spanish, i’m not saying most, but A LOT. They are in the same boat with only comedies and family shows (Ugly Betty, George Lopez Show).
Sooo, TV should only be catered to “White” people with subject matter to their liking??? Hmm…In the words of Avenue Q “Everyone’s a little bit Racist”, especially you.
BET? Really? Isn’t BET cable and completely off topic? Can you say half-minstrel show? That is not the be all and end all to everything Black, granted it’s not your fault = Freeby.
Love, peace, and soul my fellow human
Thank you, Whiskey, for once again reminding us of your racial superiority complex.
Scripted television shows tell stories. Stories involve HUMAN behavior and HUMAN emotions. Last time I checked, blacks and Latinos are humans…like white people–they exhibit human behavior and have human emotions. Oh, you probably didn’t know this, but Asian-Americans and Native Americans are humans, too, Whiskey. Watch British and French television, they seem to understand better than white Americans like you that stories can be told with actors of any race even though blacks are an even smaller percentage in those countries.
I find it endlessly irritating and revealing that racist like Whiskey (meaning, those who believe in the superiority of a particular race, in this case, white people) think that everyone should relate to the trials and tribulations of white characters but not vice versa. That white equals “universal” while non-white is confined. That’s why at the height of his career, Tom Hanks was referred to as the “everyman” while Denzel Washington was “the black guy.” Even movie reviews say things like, “Denzel Washington plays a black cop who…” What?! Can you imagine a review saying, “Robert Downey, Jr. plays a white businessman who…” Sounds stupid, right? But in a country with race-obsessed people like Whiskey, we get the perpetuation of the notion that white is standard and everyone else deviates from that standard.
I’m so glad the younger generations seem to have gotten past this nonsense. There’s no hope for Whiskey, though.
Rochelle,
Couldn’t have said that better myself! Nicely stated! I hope Whiskey reflects on your words and doesn’t get defensive.
I want to see the show. I want to see the show succeed and I would like to see more people of color behind the camera just once and then again. I shot a TV Pilot in Baldwin Hills the last year. For those out of LA Baldwin Hills is predominately an African-American community. If I were to guess I would say 90 percent. We had on a crew of about 100 one person of color. I have a job where I interact with the neighborhood. Nothing was ever said and again maybe it was just me, but I could sense their dismay where were their Brothers and Sisters?
I applaud JJ Abrams’ decision to do something different. He certainly has the name-cache to get anything made. He’s taking a chance. Fortunately for him, he’s made some really great television over the years so if this doesn’t perform well then his reputation is still in tact. Conversely, if the show tanks, then Boris and Gugu will be responsible for not having enough of whatever it is they needed to have to make such an opportunity work. I’m mean if you can’t make it with JJ Abrams at the helm, then it’s you, not him, right? It will somehow “prove” that people don’t want to see Black people doing certain things on television. I know, it’s a stretch but hey…it’s Hollywood.
I’d like to say that Hollywood is different and we all get along and that race thing is not a factor but in the 25 years I’ve been in the business, I’ve become hyper-aware of it. A good writer should be able to speak in a character’s voice regardless of race. However I do believe that with a diverse writer’s room, there is more of an opportunity to access different perspectives that may influence story, not character, story.
Oddly enough or not so oddly, the most damaging stereotypes of late have come from Black writers in predominately Black television and film. Tyler Perry perpetrates the worse offenses with such archetypes as the loud, angry gold digging Black woman; the gun-toting foul mouthed criminal Black Grandmother; the philandering, disrespectful Black man and the like. Before someone cries foul, yes there are less crude characters in his films but they all lack depth and are therefore completely unlikeable. But I digress.
I have seen the pilot and to be honest, the casting is what doesn’t work for me. Neither have the charisma one would think it takes to be a spy…or at least to play on television. They are both beautiful people but that will only get you so far week to week. I was hopeful but I just found it to be okay. Nothing made me want to run home and schedule it on my DVR.
For the sake of the actors, I hope it’s a success.
It’ll be interesting to see how this goes with international audiences ie. countries that don’t have large amounts of black population. Like mine, here in Scandinavia. I’ve never even talked with a black guy in my country. There are none. And i live in the capital city.
LOST was a huge primetime hit as were Alias years ago etc. but this? I would assume that the execs do consider stuff like international sales when picking up pilots, right? There’s 307 million people in the United States but over 500 million in the European Union countries alone (non-EU countries add 94 million) – countries that are mostly “western countries”, places where american shows air too, usually with a one season delay.
So, it will be interesting to see how this one does globally when it hits the international tv markets (MIPTV etc.).
It’s funny how those in Hollywood see themselves to be more “enlightened” about “race” than the rest of the US whereas the reality is that Hollywood is far more racist than “Middle America”
I am just happy that someone pointed out that they are BLACK (they are both really biracial but that’s besides the point) and not AFRICAN AMERICAN. I appreciate the fact people are trying to be sensitive etc but it is ridiculous to consider every black person African American. Before you get all hot and bothered, I am a black guy who is a first generation American. My parents are hardcore Africans but please just call me black. I promise I won’t be offended.
LOL! I’m African too and I consider myself African (without any other additive).
What I would like to see is racial diversity on TV. Shows on TV always have a token black, Hispanic or so forth. But usually only one. Take CSI: NY. One black person on the cast and the rest are white. I mean aren’t we in NY where immigrants from Dominican Republic, China, Jamaica, Guyana, Mexico, Ecuador, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago, Colombia, and Russia make up the highest level of people immigrating to that state yet we have a cast that is 1/6 diverse.
When watch undercover with boris it’s was good and than do not no happened cause any body like myself and I could see it over and over again it’s good. See more of the under cover TV. Show and hours and hours cause it good watch it overnight day or on the go yeah that’s the truth Boris keep up more movies great