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Exactly two weeks after Chuck Lorre’s now infamous “If Charlie Sheen outlives me, I’m gonna be really pissed” vanity card at the end of the final (for now) episode of Two and Half Men, which triggered Sheen’s vicious attacks against him, the Men co-creator weighed in on Sheen’s assaults (sort of) in his latest vanity card. The card, which aired tonight at the end of Lorre’s newest series, CBS comedy Mike & Molly, is in the rambling, stream-of-consciousness style of most of Sheen’s rants. It’s hard to make sense of it (if there is sense to be made). Most intriguing is the ending: The Fall from Grace is, in fact, a Sprint from Grace. Or perhaps more accurately, “Screw Grace, I am so outta here!”
Is it a reference to Lorre’s 1993 sitcom Grace Under Fire, which went through a similar ordeal dealing with the drug problem of star Brett Butler? After one unplanned hiatus while Butler was in rehab, the actress’ increasingly erratic behavior became too much for ABC to handle, and the network pulled the plug on the show despite strong ratings. Here is the text of tonight’s Lorre vanity card:
CHUCK LORRE PRODUCTIONS, #334
I understand that I’m under a lot of pressure to respond to certain statements made about me recently. The following are my uncensored thoughts. I hope this will put an end to any further speculation.
I believe that consciousness creates the illusion of individuation, the false feeling of being separate. In other words, I am aware, ergo I am alone. I further believe that this existential misunderstanding is the prime motivating force for the neurotic compulsion to blot out consciousness. This explains the paradox of our culture, which celebrates the ego while simultaneously promoting its evisceration with drugs and alcohol. It also clarifies our deep-seated fear of monolithic, one-minded systems like communism, religious fundamentalism, zombies and invaders from Mars. Each one is a dark echo of an oceanic state of unifying transcendence from which consciousness must, by nature, flee. The Fall from Grace is, in fact, a Sprint from Grace. Or perhaps more accurately, “Screw Grace, I am so outta here!”
Questions?
1st Aired: 28 February 2011
TV Editor Nellie Andreeva - tip her here.
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Yes, yes, we get it. This is Chuck Lorre’s Zapruder footage. Carry on.
Like all of his “vanity” cards- IT WAS A JOKE. It was FUNNY. He makes COMEDY SHOWS. He might be an egomaniac, I have no idea, but the card was a very funny take on an ugly situation. That’s what comedy does when it is done right- lets you laugh at horrible things to relieve the tension of reality. And I’d be willing to be that 90% of Charlie’s rants are jokes too. Fueled by uneven brain chemistry and a tough of the egomania that EVERY actor and type-A personality has, I’ll give you that, but in the end both guys make people laugh for a living. I know I have been laughing my butt off for weeks. Lighten up, everyone.
I agree that Chuck was trying to be obscure on purpose, but that doesn’t change the fact that what he says actually does mean something.
In short, he’s saying that the whole universe is connected, that we are never truly alone, and that when people do massive amounts of drugs it is because they are trying to blot out their own personality so they can re-experience the feeling of connectedness they knew before they were born.
In other words, “yes, it’s incredibly sad what Charlie is doing to himself, but totally understandable”.
Yes, Chuck is a showing compassion and humility when he accepts that he doesn’t understand everything. Unlike others in this situation who either through their own philosophy or via a heightened sense of awareness as a result of artificial stimulation do not see anything but how it relates to self.
It takes maturity to see things this way and I think that is something utterly lacking in this sad state of affairs.
What is it about Chuck Lorre that makes the sitcom stars who work with him go insane?
Man, if this is how he writes & communicates with his crew, like he’s some sort of intellectual, “deep thinker”, then it’s no surprise Charlie Sheen can’t stand him. Lorre reminds me of that Prison Character created by Damon Wayans who speaks with his own made-up, nonsense. How people like this get to be on top of the food chain is beyond me.
Hahahaha. Whooosh! Right over your head. This, is how Charlie Sheen talks when he’s ranting on The Alex Jones Show and whatever other interviews he does. Even worse when he writes. Lorre is making fun of Charlie Sheen by talking like him, it’s not supposed to make sense. He’s in effect saying “How the f*ck am I supposed to respond to a mad man who can’t seem to string whole sentences together that make sense?”
Go look for Charlie Sheen quotes during this whole thing and you’ll get the joke that Lorre is making here. (He IS a sitcom writer after all). You just jumped the gun by calling Lorre pompous. And the fact that you read this and couldn’t even figure out that it wasn’t saying anything at all either says something about you, or illustrates how far off the deep end Charlie Sheen has gone (always been?).
If you think Sheen is doing comedy with his tirades, strap a BP monitor to him. That’ll get some giggles.
It’s called comedy. That’s his job. Look it up, it’s a fun little diversion for normal people.
Most of the commenters below are missing the joke. The card was meant as a parody of all the weird stuff Sheen has been saying — sounding psuedo-intellectual with his (actually impressive) vocabulary. Chuck Lorre doesn’t really talk like that.
And like Sheen, Lorre is not funny either.
Maybe this isn’t the most appropriate time for inside jokes. Lorre risks making himself seem unstable himself, making it seem as if Sheen has a valid point in his rantings against Lorre.
They say Hollywood is the only place where you get to fail up.
Holy balls of crack, Chaim’s reading my mind!
This is like Pellicano OD’ed and returned with superpowers.
This isn’t good.
But I’m still winning! Suck on that CBS and go Reds!
icm and endeavor split the packaging fee on two and a half men they each made tens of millions of dollars on this why no one is reporting on this aspect. not just wb and cbs getting rich from this.
I have a question because Chuck Lorre aka Chaim Levine is clearly a crazy egomaniac and Marty Singer is going to tear him to shreds in court. What a load of crap that vanity card is it makes no sense and it’s typical elitist delusion. Charlie makes more sense than this bullshit.
I’d like to see Chuck be forced to read that vanity card aloud from the witness stand and see how a jury of average people react to it. Lorre has now made Singer’s job much easier with that bullshit statement it’s “the illusion of individuation” which is going to cost Lorre personally. I won’t be surprised if WB TV and CBS decide to bring Charlie back and force Chuck off the show within the month.
Come April they will announce that Chuck is going to focus on his other shows and on developing a new series. Charlie will get to decide who the new showrunner is and they will end up doing 30 episodes for the final season.
You blew it Chuck your ego and your vanity cards have been your undoing. The prosecution rests your honor.
Whoa Charlie, lay off the Bolivian Marching Powder when posting.
Charlie Sheen is that you posing as Legal Eagle
Chuck Lorre’s “rant” is actually quite coherent to those of us who understand existence on a higher level. I actually understood everything he said, because I “preach” the same thing. We are all connected at a higher level, but don’t expect any crackhead to get it. Charlie Sheen is so screwed out of his mind now with pharmaceuticals and ego, that he fails to see the pit he is about to leap into–the Non-existentialism–the bane of anyone in Hollywood. Like a meteor in the night. Whoosh, and gone. Goodnight Charlie.
Thank you!
Maybe if they read a little closer, or if they could understand the big words, this would make sense to more people!
I agree with legal eagle. Charlie’s rants make more sense than this arrogant attempt by Lorre to try to be smarter than everyone with his new age BS. This is the kind of arrogance that gives Hollywood a bad name as Lorre is trying way too hard here to be cute when people’s jobs and lives are at stake. If this is how he talks to people, it’s really easy to agree with Sheen that the guy needs a slap. Where is Chili Palmer when you need him? The problem with many people in Hollywood is they try to hide behind their so called intellectual BS when there is an issue with something or someone or hide behind their lawyers and agents rather than dealing with people strait up. Lorre was wrong to make a wise crack about hoping he outlives Sheen as it was a chicken sh** thing to do in the way he did it as I bet he would never say that to Sheen’s face. Lorre needs to man up and stop hiding behind his pen and the TV Execs at the Network. I’m sure Sheen is no angel here however something other than drugs and alcohol has brought him to a boiling point.
“Lorre was wrong to make a wise crack about hoping he outlives Sheen”
Actually, that’s not what he said.
What is it about being intellectual that scares so many people into being rude, obnoxious and confrontational? If you don’t understand what he said open up a new tab, go to dictionary.com and look up the words that are confusing you. Expend a little energy trying to figure out what he said instead of going on the attack. I’m not afraid to admit that that’s what I had to do.
Jiminy frickin’ crickets! What is wrong with this country that a little learning is a bad thing? That attitude is going to destroy us.
in VC#329, to an audience of roughly 18 million, he said “If Charlie Sheen outlives me, I’m gonna be really pissed.”
i laughed, but how is that not hoping he outlives Charlie Sheen? i don’t have a masters degree. i’m probably not as learned as you. how is it different?
Well, Eric 2.5, he is not saying he hopes he will outlive Charlie Sheen, that’s why it is different than if he did say he hopes he outlives Charlie Sheen. The joke here is that Sheen is a known drug and alcohol abuser. If a man who does such things to his body outlives one that does not, that one that does not will be shocked. That is a very different idea altogether.
dress it up any way you want, even as a joke i enjoyed, he’s still saying he hopes Charlie, father of 5, dies first… or he’s going to be pissed.
No, A Person, he didn’t say he would be “shocked,” he said he would be PISSED. That means, literally, he’ll be angry if he doesn’t see Charlie Sheen die. That’s a pretty harsh thing to say. Yes, it was a joke. Maybe, being charitable, it was even a sort of backhanded way of expressing concern for Charlie’s issues. It was still an insult on national TV, which is something even reasonable people might take offense at.
Dear Legal Eagle:
To paraphrase “Fargo”: “I’m not sure I agree 100% with your legal work there, Legal Eagle.” I’m also not sure that you really understand the way episodic network television series works. “Charlie will get to decide who the showrunner is and they will do 30 episodes for the final season”…and there will be cocaine enemas and three-ways for ALL of the boys and girls.
Still, not my job to confuse you with facts that contradict what you’ve been learning at Fred’s School of Heating, Air Conditioning Repair and Legal Analysis. (“The world needs ditch-diggers, too, Lebowski.”)
As an actual lawyer, I must say that this might actually be pretty interesting. Mr. Sheen is clearly a loose cannon, has delusions of grandeur and seems to have made some…ill-advised, let’s say, choices. It isn’t, however, at all clear that he has breached his contract with WBTV or that his behavior has given WBTV cause for termination. On the other hand, any first-year litigator could probably generate dozens of tort claims on behalf of WBTV, CBS and Mr. Lorre…including the fascinating but seldom-used doctrine of “trade libel.” Still, “two wrongs don’t make a right,” and a tort claim would probably have to be an independent cause of action rather than a justification for terminating a contract with an employee who, by all accounts, consistently showed up for work and did his job even though he’s obviously a complete lunatic. So, you know…interesting.
As a human being who is both fascinated by this train-wreck and ashamed of that fascination, I must say that it’s hard for me to blame or congratulate anyone involved in this fiasco. Mr. Sheen is a talented actor and an obviously troubled man who has been the “face” of a top-rated show for almost a decade and who has been coddled and flattered by his producers, his studio as his network so long that can, I think, be forgiven, for coming to believe the bullshit he was fed so long by everyone around him. WBTV and CBS found themselves with a hit on their hands in a business in which hits come along very rarely and have responsibilities to their shareholders (including a TON of “regular people” pension funds) and so are really required to cater to this man as much as possible.
Finally, as a person in Recovery, I really do empathize with Mr. Sheen. The final stages of active drug addiction — and long-term abuse of powerful stimulants like cocaine and methamphetamine can cause both short-term psychosis and long-term neurological damage (Google the terrifying “anhedonia”) — is almost always painful, lonely and indescribably frightening. As a member of a Twelve Step fellowship, I question the likelihood that Mr. Sheen has actually “cured” himself “in a blink of an eye,” but one of the founders of our fellowship experienced a “white light” moment that he credited with “striking him sober.” Then, too, some of us can be condescending, self-righteous and insensitive, and as our Big Book says, “we have no monopoly on Recovery.” I hope, as a person, that Mr. Sheen, as a person, can find some peace, because he’s obviously not “diggin’ the ride” all that much.
“What do we learn, Palmer? I guess we learn not to do it again…but I’m f***** if I know what we did.”
Wow. A small pond of wisdom and maturity, coupled with actual experience and expertise. Each one rare as an extraterrestrial in these parts.
THIS x5 ^
Agree with the eagle, Chuck now wants to use powerful words to show how egotistic he is (the smartest guy on earth). Chuck is the idiot who wanted to turn the attention away from the star of the show by insulting the one guy that made the show for him! Chuck, dont try to sound like a Rocket Scientist, you are only making TV entertainemnt, dont worry…you are not curing cancer.
Keep living it up Carlos Estevez!!!!
Hahaha. Are you an idiot? This “rant” was a joke. He was taking lines word for word from some of Charlie Sheen’s other rants and stringing them together to show people how retarded Sheen is. The fact that you Sheen fans can hear him say this shit daily and think it’s deep, but hear someone else say it back at you a bit tongue in cheek and think it sounds retarded should make you perhaps wake up to how retarded Charlie Sheen is.
Two and a Half Douches. Go away.
This^^^
This is hard. Charlie Sheen will end up back at Warner Bros, CBS, Two & a Half Men and Chuckie L will exit, though he still has series and sets and writing staffs and production offices right on top of “Men” at the lot? Will the writing staff of the current season of “Men” say b’bye as well? And what does Cryer think of this, if that matters? I can’t see Lorre leaving, a new showrunner taking the realms, and Lorre sitting next door on his two other sitcoms not giving a sh*t about the show that not only (now) made him a household name, but also gave him the (many) houses he has. Thoughts, industry insiders?
Unfortunately Charlie Sheen will end up dead due to his drug abuse. He needs help and if he does not get it, he will end up another hollywood drug addicted fatality and talent gone too soon.
I think Jenna Elfman (“AIDS is just a state of mind!”) was nuts well before Dharma and Greg. And lord knows Lorre has had titanic battles of ego before, viz Cybill Shepherd during Cybill.
She never said any such thing you rabble rousing weenie.
Oh yes she did – refused to take part in a charity auction because “AIDS is a state of mind, not a disease.” That’s Scientology’s line on it too, although they don’t want you to know that – all illness is because “you pulled it in.”
Or, maybe most actors/stars in Hollywood are bonkers…or, Chuck Lorre has the bad karma to get his start with Roseanne, (well documented problem creator); Cybill, (Diva reputation prior to the Lorre show); a kook like Elfman and two actors with substance abuse issues, (Butler and Sheen).
Happily, the casts of his other two current shows are apparently sane and pleasant…for the time being.
hmmmm….just thought of something.
it can’t be a coincidence that both “Big Bang” and “Mike/Molly” were cast with non-stars…Chuck learned his lesson apparently. Would imagine he runs thorough checks on everyone he casts from now on, to screen out the nuts, the egomanics and the drugged.
That doesn’t leave you many people in Hollywood to work with.
I actually understood what he was saying here. And it is really quite profound. And dare I say it — mystical…
it is profound and highly evolved. anyone who feels separate and alone reaches for substances or people to block out the pain of that existence. addicts can actually recover in an instant when/if they are open to shifts in consciousness.
Good try, Chuck.
Chuck would of been much smarter to keep quiet.
Amen!
Wow who’s ego is bigger? Chuck or Charlie? bring on the Octagon. WINNING!
I think I am too stupid to understand Chuck’s genius. I am so outta here…….
I DON’T CARE ANYMORE.
people go to work to make a living.if you want to buy a bag of m&ms with your money fine its up to you if you want plaine or peanuts.charlie sheen can do what he likes he works and do his job well if he wasnt they wouldnt be payinghim like they are so everybody leave my boy charlie alone.he is enjoying what he ork for if he wants to brn his money thats on him .that the problem with th world everybody wants to run each others life.keep your head up charlie i wish i could talk to charlie because i feel for him and he is my favorite fan.im out of work and dont have nothing but if i did i would be a manjust like mr sheen jerry reese durham nc
No wonder you’re out of work. Pretty sure Sheen will be joining you on the street soon, anyway. Buying mountains of drugs and paying for sex can bankrupt even the criminally overpaid eventually.
If the rumor’s true, CBS will pay Charlie Sheen to go away and are replacing him with John Stamos.
Egoism is an amazing thing. Used properly, it can help to get people far. Used poorly, in the end, it’ll kill just about everything.
The questions this situation brings forward are limitless. But the two which are most relevant to me are why do we really care about what is really a personality struggle between two individuals and in the end, what difference will it make?
Now, I have to qualify myself. I rarely watch television. I have caught several episodes of Two and a half Men and found them to be entertaining. I have also found most of Chuck Lorre’s previous shows to be solid as well.
This has become public property. So far, from an outsiders point of view, Chuck is looking much more professional. Although were either of these guys my clients, I would highly suggest that they stop talking, because once papers are served, everything and everyone becomes a pawn and there is no place to hide.
No one is going to want to work with Charlie Sheen aka, Carlos Estevez
Dude – by now, EVERYbody knows that his birth name is Estevez. And that Lorre’s is Levine.
And that Tony Curtis was Bernie Schwartz, Judy Garland was Frances Gumm, Cary Grant was Archie Leach, Woody Allen’s real name is Allen Konigsberg, Jennifer Aniston was Jennifer Anastassakis, Jamie Foxx = Eric Bishop, Lauren Bacall = Betty Joan Perske, Taurean Blacque = Herbert Middleton, Jr., Josh Brolin = Joshua Bruderlin (and his dad’s last name is Bruberlin, as well, not “Mr. Streisand”), Larry King = Lawrence Zeiger, Nicolas Cage = Nicolas Coppola, Kate Capshaw = Kathleen Nail, 50 Cent = Curtis Jackson, Kim Cattrall = Clare Woodgate, Omar Sharif = Michael Shalhoub, Shania Twain = Eileen Edwards, Jay-Z = Shawn Carter….
So, what’s your point?
Chuck should just remain silent. No matter what, no matter this or that, he is just a show creator, a producer, a writer, and should not be in the spotlight in any which way. Sheen can’t “thrust him into the spotlight”. Lorre needs to remain quiet and no one will even know he is once this passes (hell, they probably still don’t… ah, how lovely it is to run a show). BUT… I’m sure, as we saw with tonight’s V-CARD, Chuckie L won’t keep to himself. Because his anger and ego will overcome him. What needs to be realized though, first and foremost, is that 2/MEN was based on Charlie Sheen’s life! And on the show Charlie Sheen’s character of Charlie Harper does EVERY. THING. SHEEN. DOES. OUT. SIDE. OF. BLOWING. COCAINE. ON. THE. KITCHEN. TABLE. I mean, personally, and feel free to argue, I’ve never seen a family sitcom where the lead is so open and accepting (along with the rest of the cast and audience) of hookers and alcohol. And ESPECIALLY hookers. There are whole episodes based around buying hookers, yet no character mentions during the 30 minutes, “this is illegal” or “this is wrong”. And this season, if anyone watched (oh, right, everyone in America does! #1!), then they’d see “Charlie Harper” was in rare form, addicted to alcohol and prostitutes moreso than ever. And, once again, no one cared. All they did… was laugh. And applaud. And enjoy.
This has to be one of the most fascinating aspects of this situation. If what you say is true (about the hookers and self-destructive behavior being written into the show) then the people who were watching this show were complicit in denying Charlie Sheen’s deterioration. Personally, I don’t watch shows where the stars look like they’re dying and laugh at them talking about doing bad things and killing themselves. That’s like watching a (real) lung-cancer patient smoke cigarettes and saying, “ha ha they’re dying but they don’t care. It’s hilarious!” Isn’t it different if they are not acting? Secondly, why is every using his given name as a cheer and/or insult. Carlos Estevez. What? Suddenly he’s hispanic and everyone cares? It’s weird.
chuck’s an ass and has been for years. insiders know. he’s an ass.
chuck attacks all the talent that has made him a very rich man. i.e. roseanne, brett, charlie, cybil, etc.
well, when Lorre pulls up in one of his brand new luxury cars, has some bimbo meet him out there to help him walk into the building that is now dubbed “The Chuck Lorre Building” aka “Bldg 136″ to go to work and cares nothing for his crews until the crazy one of the bunch starts ranting and raving about the crew…WB doesn’t give a shit… Chuck Lorre doesn’t give a shit… CBS wants minimum damage to their comedy lineup… but they have to figure out who is the worst of both evils… crazy charlie sheen or megalomaniac Lorre.. and which one will bring in the dough with the less trouble…
this guy is a dick. don’t get me wrong, sheen is far from a saint, but the only person he really treats badly is himself. this guy is just a world class jerk off
Except for the domestic violence allegations, one of which involved a knife, and the attempt to get a “porn star” to babysit his kids, sure no harm, no foul.
CBS knows their audience. I’m convinced you take a couple of primates, a bakers dozen mongoloids, give them some pudding pops and plunk them down in front of any CBS comedy and they’ll be in total bliss. And when I say primates and mongoloids, I mean the entire CBS audience who haven’t mastered the channel changer. Ever got to a taping? The boom guy farts and the audience goes nuts. It’s Chuck’s secret formula. Shhhh.
A few thoughts on the stomach-churning ‘vanity card.’ (Who do you think you are, man?)
“I hope this will put an end to any further speculation.” On what, Chuck, you vain prat? Not a lot of speculating that I’ve heard.
“I believe that consciousness creates the illusion of individuation, the false feeling of being separate.” Jibber jabber. Allow me to clarify: Individuation is a key element in the formation of personality, and is critical to perceiving oneself as a unique part of society. Your crypto-Scientological nonsense notwithstanding, you’re just wrong. Why is feeling separate a bad thing?
“In other words, I am aware, ergo I am alone.” No, that’s not a paraphrase of your first statement. Also, the post ergo conclusion is completely unsubstantiated by the argument.
“I further believe that this existential misunderstanding is the prime motivating force for the neurotic compulsion to blot out consciousness.” Based on what, Chuckie? Why would the fairly mundane observation that awareness is the ability to distinguish oneself from others necessarily create such a neurosis. Facts, please? Btw, any science out there with you, or you been chilling with Glenn Back.
“This explains the paradox of our culture, which celebrates the ego while simultaneously promoting its evisceration with drugs and alcohol.” Ah, so this finally is the paradox of our culture revealed. It seems to me there are other, more deluded ego-centric paradoxes, like the one that says we can make denigrating and insulting tv about women, ignore the violent behavior of our big bread-winners toward their spouses and overnight guests, justify drug-induced rampages through cities all over the US, and remain comfortably in a major network’s happy embrace. But the moment we say the boss (a man) is a pu**y, the entire show is shut down. This is one of those paradoxes more accurately descried as a sexist double-standard, Chuck, not a paradox. You are a writer, no?
“It also clarifies our deep-seated fear of monolithic, one-minded systems like communism, religious fundamentalism, zombies and invaders from Mars. Each one is a dark echo of an oceanic state of unifying transcendence from which consciousness must, by nature, flee.” You neglect the coercive practices of AA, Scientology, the church, and others, but do manage to shoehorn in a couple of Fall from Grace references (to what end, however, remaining a mystery.)
“Screw Grace, I am so outta here!” Finally a little truth. Grace is not, nor has ever been your strong point, Chuck. You’re a self-serving hypocritical boor, and perhaps a moment or two of reflection might serve you well before you have one of your uncredited assistants scrawl out another of your useless ‘vanity cards.’
Vanity cards. You’re such a wanker. And oh, so so offended. And that final “Questions” is priceless.
It’s your stupid shows that are offensive — Blowback’s a bitch.
Just because you haven’t heard speculating, doesn’t mean it hasn’t gone on on just that apparently you don’t recognize it. Hell at least three comments before yours were speculating about what this all means. Every news show is speculating on what this means for the show and its future, but I guess you do not recognize as speculation that concerns Lorre.
As for his card, it probably wasn’t smart, but it has proven that people do not get parody. Mean spirited parody, certainly, but parody. But what can we expect when people don’t get the simple juxtapositon joke when he lists all the ‘right’ and ‘good’ lifestyle choices he makes before admitting that if Charlie lives longer he’d be pissed. You know missing the implicit aspect that says that despite the hospitalization and the drama, Charlie’s life sounds like more fun then living right.
brilliant!
I agree.
I actually read this whole post. It’s hard to argue with. Hit nail on head./ especially the part about the misogyny of the Men.
Let’s face it, BBT is wearing thin as well. Another year and all their cool references are going to feel forced and passe.
Wow. This brings up a few interesting questions. Firstly, how many email addresses does Sheen have? Does he post each time with a different email address, or can he use the same address and post multiple times?
Because you have not experienced oneness, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. You’re just as funny as the men who discounted germs because they couldn’t see them!
They both are acting like two little boys in the school yard.
I have a question, Chuck.
If you’re so evolved, why are you such a fucking prick?