Kelly Rowland, Paulina Rubio In Talks To Join ‘X … 
Cannes: Latest Theft Affects China Film Group VP 
UPDATE: Yahoo Board OKs $1.1B Deal To Acquire Tumblr … 
‘Epic’ Toon Begins $14.5M Overseas Rollout 
Cannes: Sony Classics Wins Stateside Rights To Asghar … 
‘Fast & Furious 6′ Breaks Records In … 
Specialty Box Office: ‘Frances Ha’ Triumphs As … 
‘Saturday Night Live’ Season Finale Posts … 
‘Star Trek Into Darkness’ $164.5M Global: Lower … 
Cannes: Backup Media, Memento Bring Heat To Fest Helmer Jim … 
Cannes: Sundance Selects Acquires Dardenne Brothers’ … 
Cannes: Wrekin Hill Acquires U.S. On Gabriele … 
Bill Hader’s ‘SNL’ Stefon Farewell: Video 
Cannes: The Weinstein Co. Books ‘Suite … 
BBC Confirms ‘Doctor Who’ Season 8 
Finally, Cannes Dealing! Radius-TWC Nabs Director’s … 
Hammond On Cannes: Wet Fest’s Official Competition … 
‘Vampire Academy’ Adds ‘Modern … 
RATINGS RAT RACE: ‘Shark Tank’ Finale Up, … 
Cannes: Worldview Options Andrew Dominik’s Marilyn … 
UPFRONTS 2013: The Overachievers 
Ray Richmond is contributing to Deadline’s TCA coverage.
On a lively and colorful afternoon TCA panel promoting the fall PBS four-hour series America in Primetime, Everybody Loves Raymond creator Phil Rosenthal blasted TNT for its recent decision to cancel Raymond star Ray Romano’s latest series, dramedy Men of a Certain Age. “Those idiots put six episodes on in November and then waited until July to schedule the next six as if they were trying to make sure the audience didn’t connect to it,” Rosenthal said. “Then they cancel it because the audience doesn’t connect to it. That’s why I say the only thing I hate about this business is the business part.”
Rosenthal’s zingers often punctuated the discussion, in which he, Nurse Jackie co-creators Liz Brixius and Linda Wallem, Desperate Housewives star Felicity Huffman and America in Primetime exec producer Tom Yellin delved into what makes primetime tick. The idea behind the PBS series is to promote the idea that all primetime scripted entertainment is built on the foundation of all shows that have come before it. In the series, Yellin notes that Murphy Brown creator Diane English originally received a note from CBS that the title character shouldn’t be a recovering alcoholic in her 40s but a 30-year-old woman coming out of a spa. “I got the same note on Raymond,” Rosenthal quipped, “that he be a 30-year-old woman coming out of a spa.”
More seriously, Wallem made the point that “the trick of selling a show these days is not just selling an idea; you are talking to a roomful of fear. And they bring issues about family, women, men, substances, everything. You’re always having to deal with that fear.” She later added, “What’s exciting now is seeing someone like Bob Greenblatt (who bought dark comedy Nurse Jackie at Showtime) getting hired to head NBC to shake things up a bit. I’m excited to see him bring that dangerous, fearless vibe of what he did at Showtime to a broadcast network.”
Asked about the glut of reality shows in primetime, Rosenthal replied, “It could signal something larger than just a trend, and that is the end of civilization.”
Loading ...
Bitter party of 1 please
If you aren’t bitter, then you have never been successful in the entertainment biz, dude.
Bitter on the inside. Always smiling and telling jokes on the outside.
It’s the way of Hollywood ( Ask Natalie Woods, M. Monroe, etc up to Heath Ledger)
They fuck with us too much.
One of the most successful, wealthy writers in television is bitter?
Interesting.
TV is a democracy. If people had watched “Men Of A Certain Age” it would still be on. They didn’t.
So-called “scripted” writers don’t understand how difficult Reality TV is to create. They naively think it’s just pointing a camera at stuff. All the good storytellers have migrated to the Reality genre because it’s funnier and more compelling than they same ol’ tired jokes that the Harvard sitcom writers churn out.
Watch an episode of “Raymond” in syndication — it doesn’t hold up. It looks like Kabuki theater.
Exploitive and removed from reality, yes, creative no.
Yeesh. Maybe if they’d called the show “Grumpier Old Men.”
Either way, I’d rather watch Mad Men or True Blood over man-babies (with man-boobs) in sweatpants. Sorry, dude.
Christ, what a naive comment. Television isn’t a democracy–it’s a business, far too often run by executives who haven’t got a clue. They give shows awful timeslots, then move them and pre-empt them, and then blame them for “not finding an audience”.
So, no, no “democracy” there, just a lot of people victimized by a few people’s incredibly bad decisions. I say that as someone who’s been listening to executive excuses at TCA for nearly 15 years–they never change. NOT ONCE has any network executive EVER said, “We’re sorry, we really screwed up. Maybe if we’d given the show a good timeslot, hadn’t moved it three times in the first year, and then pre-empted it, maybe it would’ve found an audience.” Instead, it’s always the same old, “Oooh, but loved it too, we tried…” horseshit.
Raymond does hold up in syndication. And if you think it’s Kabuki, then you know as little about theater as you know about television.
You don’t seem to understand television or democracies. Like a democracy, television is nothing more than a popularity contest. Networks don’t cancel popular shows that people like to watch. M.o.a.C.A. was an unpopular show. You can’t blame that on network executives or Reality TV. It’s PEOPLE. If PEOPLE like a show, they will watch it whenever it’s on. The show was lousy; people didn’t watch; it got the axe.
Reality TV shows, on the other hand, ARE what people like to watch. They are popular because of PEOPLE. PEOPLE like these shows. These aren’t NEW people — they’re the same folks who used to watch sitcoms but got bored of them because they’re not as funny or compelling.
All the good storytellers have migrated to the Reality genre
————————————
you should be writing sitcoms because thats the funniest line I’ve read in a long time.
I’ve written for both, and I can tell you that Reality story departments are much funny than, say, the Writers Room of “According to Jim.”
Right because when we think of the new Golden Age of Television, we think of America’s Got Talent, Jersey Shore, and Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
What’s your point? Scripted TV is better? You plan to tell your grandkids about heady scripted fare like Bleep My Dad Says, Hellcats and No Ordinary Family?
Kabuki theater has lasted a long, long time.
So has cancer.
This is pretty OT, but comparing kabuki theater to cancer? Nice one, Eros.
“Reality is funnier and more compelling..”
Really?? Gee, I could have sworn it was empty and
forced. Now, we have bad actors performing bad writing and people eating goat’s brains.
Network TV has really lowered the bar on what’s entertaining.
“The Amazing Race” is funnier, more dramatic, more visually interesting and more culturally enlightening than any so-called scripted show on TV. But perhaps you prefer the high-brow writing of shows like “Outsourced,” “The Paul Reiser Show” and “Accidentally on Purpose.” I’d rather watch people eat goat’s brains than Jenna Elfman try (and fail) to be funny.
“Network TV’ doesn’t decide what’s entertaining, PEOPLE do. Look at the ratings — people don’t watch programs that they think are bad. You are in the minority of people who don’t find Reality TV entertaining.
To people my age and younger, those who trash the Reality TV genre sound just like our grandparents who used to call Rock & Roll “garbage.” Thanks for your opinion, gramps, now eat your pea soup.
You canceled the very best show on cable TV. Was it too intellegent for YOU? What a shame that we get quality and management is too miopic to support it.
Lee
I’ve worked with Phil and he is always sharp and observant. I’m glad he spoke up and what Wallem said about “pitching to a roomful of fear” is dead on. That is exactly why so many original shows get ruined in development – they are so %$#@ scared of anything different and always want to make sure the lowest common denominator is NEVER confused. Make it the same – so if it fails we can say “well,we tried to make it like Friends!”. And these copies of copies of copies are just dull and lifeless. Of course if a network ever truly shook things up and just let talented and creative writers make what they want to make and it worked – it would prove that many of these network executives are not needed at all in the “process”.
Bingo!
Excellent Comments…right on the money!
I agree with what you said, except for the part about Phil being observant. I don’t know Phil, but Raymond is one of the least funny, dull, unimaginative pieces of shit to ever “grace” the TV screen. So how observant and talented can Phil be? Not very.
I used to feel exactly as you do when it was on the air, but then I took another look at it recently. Raymond is not modern, edgy, hip or any of those things, but it was never meant to be. It just plays with the truth of certain kinds of family craziness. A lot of its humor lies in the reaction takes, and the really dry rejoinders to situations that are both realistic and absurd. Yes, it’s absurd that your parents drive their car into your living room and emerged unscathed. No, it’s not entirely unrealistic that they’d disrupt your life in some dramatic way but spend more time arguing with each other than apologizing for what they just did to you.
Based on my own experience, I think the show works better if you’re past the single-in-the-city phase. Get a little older, get married and/or have kids, and it suddenly goes from dull to painfully funny.
Not sure why people keep bashing “Raymond”. The article isn’t saying Everybody Loves Raymond is a good show… they are talking about the show “Men of a Certain Age”, which happens to star Ray Romano. Who’s unobservant now? Just read the article, people.
I don’t know who they expected to watch that show. No guy wants to think of himself as being of ‘a certain age.’
You could make the same argument for “Hot in Cleavland.” Didn’t that show just get a third season though?
Hot in Cleveland tries to find humor by poking fun at the way Hollywood discards mature women as unattractive.
Men of a Certain Age should not be referred to as a dramedy. I watched it each week. It was an interesting depiction of the challenges facing the three main characters during the downside of being well past middle age (reality check: Andre is 49, Ray is 54, and Scott is 57, unless they are going to live past 98, 108, and 114 respectively), but it just wasn’t a funny show.
As a man of a certain that’s why I didn’t watch it much as I can’t stand
Romano anyway, I think hes way over rated
ya your right romano is a terrible actor i wonder why he is so popular and is loved by so many and has movies and hit tv shows… oh thats right cuz he is actually pretty good and i believe is costar got a emmy nomination… makes for a pretty good tv show that you have to pay attention to and follow unlike reality tv where you can pick it up anywhere and “laugh” at stupid crap that has no meaning and kills my damn brain cells.
Yes… based on the content, syntax and grammar of you comment, clearly you are a very erudite person with extremely discriminating tastes. Only the most highly intelligent TV programs will appeal to a person such as you.
Grown men with child-like minds may not, the rest of us have a grasp on reality and can watch such a show.
This is a Brilliant observation:
Wallem made the point that “the trick of selling a show these days is not just selling an idea; you are talking to a roomful of fear. And they bring issues about family, women, men, substances, everything. You’re always having to deal with that fear.”
Sadly this is 100% true. I swear I just got that Murphy Brown. Can’t be 40 or an alcoholic. Just 30 and has just been to a spa. That’s something a network exec would say because their job is to overthink EVERYTHING.
I just got notes from ABC that are so pathetic it’s beyond belief. Apparently Paul Lee wants everything to be super upbeat and Aaron Spelling like. Nothing sad. Nothing real. America is sad so they don’t want to see ordinary folks struggle to make their life better or have dramatic obstacles at all.
American is also really stupid so Pilots have to start in the middle so the audience isn’t confused because their tests show everyone who watches ABC is very dumb and everything needs to be explained in a tag line for marketing purposes.
All this does is bore the audience and give them nothing to sink their teeth into. If it’s all spelled out there is no ride. No discovery. No entry point. Just meaningless crap spewing across the screen. Yes attention spans are shorter. But not that short.
Take the ABC pilot Scandal. It’s a total rip off of the new Sherlock Holmes playing in England. The premise is repeated 12 times in bold faced dialogue and the show goes so fast nothing lands emotionally. Kerry Washington is a human lie detector and fixer. A rogue lawyer who can just look in someones eyes and know their truth. Okay.
I have no idea what reality this show exists in. It will appeal to audiences as much as Flashforward. The only show still on is Dana Delaney’s show as it’s a good story, well told with compelling characters. Nothing great. But notice that ABC audiences rejected everything else over the last two years but Modern Family and that show doesn’t paint the family with fairy dust.
Sad about Men of a Certain Age. LOVED THAT SHOW. I thought TNT was actually bringing up their game.
Could Ray Richmond print that whole TCA panel? Would love to hear it all.
At this point I think NBC is a writers only hope. ABC likes its development super contrived. They well they tell stories there is so bizarre. I can’t imagine a marketing expert from the Disney Channel will make ABC any better. Did ABC get any Emmy nominations besides Modern Family? Have heard the “ABC wants to be Aaron Spelling” line from my agents already. Ugh.
Love the balls this guy has. Go Phil!
Gimme a break. Women weren’t going to watch a show about four men navel gazing, and men weren’t going to watch a show about navel gazing. The damned thing got two seasons – Rosenthal should be thanking his lucky stars, since it would have been cancelled after four episodes on a broadcast network.
Amazing how clueless some of these people are.
What the hell is naval gazing?
I’m a woman in my late twenties and I watched this show. The writing was witty and the acting engaging. Granted the network did a horrible job promoting the dramedy. You, on the other hand, by typing this as a show only certain people will find interesting and hence, categorizing it as a failure, you’re essentially falling into the same trap as the networks – that all shows have to people-please everyone. Which I think is also the reason My Boys spiraled down – they changed their formula from original to predictable and allegedly “shocking.” We can only hope that the same quality of programming as seen on HBO, Showtime, etc. will soon come to primetime (although R.I.P Party Down
).
On point.
Was my wife’s favorite show. Breaking up one season into two blocks months apart is beyond retarded.
Agree. All my female friends in their 20′s and 30′s LOVED “Men of a Certain Age.” They think it’s the best show on TV. Or was. Do the male execs at TNT have chips on their shoulders? OR are they like CBS where only one kind of macho man can be on their network to make Les Moonves feel comfortable about his own masculinity. Sorry but Mark Harmon has all the depth of a paper towel and Tom Sellecks shoe black hair dye is about to run into his eyes on Blue Bloods.
It feels like TNT is getting very CBS/Red State/no HS diploma on viewers. Why is TNT so lame? Do they not want a sophisticated audience? They want the folks who watch Rizzoli and Isles which none of my friends do.
They might have however if they’d kept MEN on the air.
You may be the clueless one here – Phil had no stars to thank, he had nothing to do with the show at all. It was just an outside observation.
@Miffy: By your “logic”, The Big Bang Theory would never have gotten on the air; after all, how many physicists watch television? Unfortunately, far too many network executives operate off the same kind of sweeping assumptions.
And, btw, it’s not Rosenthal’s show. He was just saying–as many people have–that a good show was ruined by bad scheduling. Sadly, in Hollywood, that’s like saying there’s sand at the beach.
@Miffy
Men of a Certain Age attracted a sizable audience more than half of whom were women. ‘Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt, eh?
Rosenthal had nothing to do with “Men,” moron.
Unless it’s a sh!tcom or a reality show, networks don’t seem to care if shows sink or float. Spacing the season more than 6 months apart was an idiotic move and TNT deserves to be chastised for it. Television has been in the toilet for over a decade now and it shows no signs of improvement because of business decisions like this.
I am a middle-aged woman and I loved Men of a Certain Age show.
It was well written, well cast, good story lines etc. There is
so much crap on TV, like all the reality shows and other junk
and then go and cancel the good ones. TNT and hollywood needs to get with it. Put this show back on now and with more than 6 episodes.
You liked this stinker?!? Well, you and about ten other people. It was the real junk on the schedule.
I am a 46 year old man. This show just bored me.If I wanted to see everyday crap that goes on in a life i would have just filmed myself and my friends. The main point of a show is to entertain.This show was just tedious to watch.I watched the first six episodes and then tried to watch when it came back on in the summer.I gave up after two summer episodes. It is a shame because all of the actors on that show were terrific.
Wait til you are 50 then you will appreciate tre greatness of ”men of a certain age”
Really? Do you have your party store trashed by a bookie “everyday?”
I would have enjoyed that scene if Ray’s character had taken advantage of the bookie having been weakened by cancer and delivered that man the beat down he so richly deserved for trashing the store.
I watched this thru quite a few episdoes, the first few were actually really funny and interesting, and there were moments along the way that echoed that quality.
Part of the problem was most episodes did not, the show often rambled and meandered along slowly and sometimes mindlessly. Some episodes were a chore to watch in their slow and dragging scenes.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming from TNT perhaps shouldnt be working in television.
Hi lowest common denominator.
Men Of A Certain Age would have been a hit if it was truthful and showed men of a certain age doing what they do which is not talk to each other but talk about and attempt to lay girls half their age – every minute of every episode.
You must know some very sad and pathetic men of a certain age, who obviously haven’t gotten laid since the turn of the century to be that obssessed.
I don’t really know too mucb about “Men of a Certain Age” because I didn’t watch it. (It looked like an interesting show) Isn’t the split season thing the formula for a lot of the shows on TNT, USA, etc? I mean Monk did the half season half sesson thing (which confused me totally btw as to when new eps would be on…)
Sad to see MEN OF A CERTAIN AGE canceled so quickly. The writers set up great stories to come for future eps. I will miss it. Losing it is like losing friends.
-Man, late 30′s
I’m a 28 year old male and I loved it. Great cast, great writing and great but believable storylines.
Why does cable do that with their series? They only have like 13 episodes a season instead of 24+, and then they split them up into two airings. You just get into a rhythm and settle down to enjoy them week after week and then, “tune in for the season finalte”…..what? It just started! I liked “Men of a Certain Age” and hope they change their tune, and show it and all their other series in a block.
Well I saw the show once I liked it but I forgot it was even on..
For the record, Rosenthal didn’t create MEN OF A CERTAIN AGE. In fact, he had nothing to do with it, so i don’t understand your comment about how he “should be thanking his lucky stars”. He’s simply defending a show that he believes was good. And he’s right. Btw, I’m a woman in my 40′s and I happened to enjoy the show tremendously.
Help us save Men of a Certain Age and get it picked up by another network!We’ve got an active group on Facebook and a petition you can sign! We need you!
https://www.facebook.com/SaveMenOfACertainAge
I’m a woman and I loved the show. The acting was great, the writing was fabulous. It was the best show on TNT. I’m going to miss it. I thought cable was supposed to actually give its shows a chance, unlike networks. When did TNT join the race to cater to the lowest common denominator?
I am a woman too, and I liked that show too! I hated, though, that they made fewer episodes on cable than they would have on the main networks, though, I’m sure the show, sadly, wouldn’t have lasted past a few episodes on those networks. I also still miss that show on ABC that starred Jonny Lee Miller.
The average reality show is generally more entertaining than the average formulaic crap sit-com, plus a lot cheaper to produce. Network shows need to hire better writers; I have no idea where this concept came from that all comedy writers need to be from Ivy League schools. SNL, Simpsons, etc. are all painfully unfunny and the writing staffs are all Ivy League. Comedy is not like dentistry or the law, it cannot be learned in a classroom.
A show like Parks Department is all ivy league writers including the three writer assistants and it shows. That is a terrible show that’s somehow receives glowing reviews (but none ratings). Actually then I know how it receives glowing reviews. Because they are writ by their Ivy League buddies.
No one resents the Hollywood’s Harvard mafia more than this particular bitter writer but Parks and Rec is an insanely funny show. It’s so expertly crafted it makes my hair hurt. The casting, the characters, “world” of Pawnee. Everything about that show works and it’s rooted in the writing. The show took a while to find it’s voice but once it did the guffaws did floe.
Linda Wallem could have expanded the roomful of fearful executives to the entire nation: a country of mostly functional illiterates who traffic in fantasy and immediate gratification, who worship the dollar and shut down anything that requires risk-taking, courage, innovation and–gasp!–character-building. I know people who won’t see foreign films because they’re too lazy to read the subtitles.
The fact that 500+ channels exist with nothing substantive to put on them sums up the state of the medium: all package and no content–or content about as appetizing as food with the flavor, freshness, and nutrients removed.
The only thing that might save us, if it’s not already too late, are the lone voices in the wilderness brave enough to go against the encroaching incursion of mindless, tasteless mediocrity which is the titanic rock tied to a rope around the neck of a sinking America.
and yet you named yourself after an american criminal. idiot.
I love Phil Rosenthal. He’s funny, genuine and not a studio ass-kisser. His success has been because of his talent, not because of politicking or flashy JJ Abrams-like gimmicks. And I love how he is sticking up for a show that isn’t even his own, he rocks.
his success is 85 percent ray, 15 percent luck
Ray is great, but he’s not that great. He says what’s written well. You, for instance – given Ray -would NOT have created a hit sitcom.
That’s right, all it takes is a moderately successful comedian and you can keep a show on the air for NINE YEARS. Please.
A truly dumb comment.
It was a really quality show. I get his perspective.
I genuinely loved this show, but by the numbers it’s cancellation wasn’t a surprise. I still do not understand truncating a 12-episode season. Seems ridiculous and that’s where Rosenthal is dead on in his assessment.