James Murdoch could lose his job as News Corp’s deputy COO or BSkyB’s chairman as soon as this fall. That’s the informed prediction of The Guardian’s Nick Davies in an exclusive interview with me. The journalism muckraker says there’s “every chance” that the Parliamentary committee investigating the News of the World phone-hacking and police-bribery scandal will conclude that James misled them about a key question in the case: Did James pay $1.4M in hush money in 2008 to a hacking victim who could have disclosed that NOTW‘s violations were more extensive than the company publicly admitted? James says he didn’t. But three former News International executives dispute his testimony. If Parliament decides James is wrong, then “that’s a severe development,” says Davies. His predictions matter. Because Davies is the reporter who broke open the Murdoch scandal and has led the coverage at every turn. He’s also writing a book about the case, due in late 2012, called Hack Attack: How the Truth Caught up with the World’s Most Powerful Man. On a visit to the U.S. this week looking for new dimensions to the story, he spoke to me about where things stand — and where the tale could lead.
DEADLINE: How high do you think the scandal will go?
DAVIES: In terms of criminal charges at the moment there’s no reason to think it will go higher. You’ve got to the level of Rebekah Brooks, the former chief executive of News International — and it’s in relation to her function as an editor [of News Of The World]. You’ve got Andy Coulson, a former (NOTW) editor and Prime Ministerial right-hand man. So at the moment that’s as high as the criminal stuff goes. Ethical questions go higher. Clearly James Murdoch is in a tight corner because there’s every chance that the select committee is going to produce a report during September or October which will say that he has misled them. First of all, in reputational terms, that’s a severe development if the committee says you’ve misled Parliament. That matters in British politics. The second thing is in the detail: What they would be saying is that back in May 2008 he was shown evidence of criminal activity by reporters at News Of The World and he didn’t do anything about it. Investors have lost a small fortune as the shares have died. I think those shareholders may react to that committee report and say, ‘Well, you’ve got to go’.
DEADLINE: Do we basically know the contours of the story? Is it just a matter now of filling in the blanks — or could this grow much bigger?
DAVIES: In theory the story could break out in lots of different directions. There are other private investigators, we could find out about them. There are other newspapers in Britain that are hiring private investigators to do the same illegal things. We could bring in the other papers. There are other illegal techniques: It’s mostly focused on hacking voicemail and getting access to confidential databases. But there has been a lot of e-mail hacking, getting inside of computers, and there has been some burglary. There has also, to a smaller extent, been live tapping of phone calls. Then you might overflow into other countries. It is interesting to ask whether anything similar has been happening in the United States or Australia. At the moment I wouldn’t claim to know the answer to those questions. That’s what I’m looking for.
DEADLINE: Have you heard anything to suggest that any of Rupert Murdoch’s U.S.-based news organizations – the New York Post or Fox News – might be pulled into the story?
DAVIES: The short answer is no. I hear a lot of bickering. I talk to people who really hate some of Murdochs’ news organizations here – people who are prepared to believe a lot of bad things. But so far not one of them has come up with a single concrete example of illegal activity by a private investigator acting on their behalf. Although you certainly have private investigators in this country who do illegal things – very similar to the British set up – the nature of your news organizations is different. You don’t have a national newspaper market where a dozen or more national newspapers are fighting each other over 60 million readers. You have city-based newspapers competing with one or two competitors. You don’t have the same level of ruthlessness. So I wouldn’t claim to know the whole truth about this. But at the moment, at this rather early stage, I’m tempted to conclude that the U.S.-based news organizations are not using the private investigators in the promiscuous way that their British counterparts have been. But that’s a temporary conclusion until I can dig deeper.
DEADLINE: Have you been able to develop sources inside News Corp?
DAVIES: There’s always been a very important network of journalists who used to work there, who know exactly where the bodies are buried. They’ve been extremely helpful in guiding me through the stories. But almost all of them have stayed off the record because they still work in the industry and don’t want to make it impossible for themselves to earn a living. Separately there’s always been one or two people currently within News International who’ve been helpful. You get good people working in bad organizations.
DEADLINE: Have you had any response to your stories from the Murdochs?
DAVIES: No, I’ve had no direct contact with them at all. I sat in [Parliament's Culture, Media and Sport] select committee room eight feet away while they were giving their evidence [on July 19]. That was the best theater in London. It was absolutely riveting particularly for me because I know the whole story. So when they’re giving their answers I know all of the things they’re not saying. So I found it completely fascinating watching them.
DEADLINE: Does Rupert Murdoch still have the power to help his friends and hurt his enemies?
DAVIES: It’s a good question because there’s a school of thought that says he’s damaged forever and will no longer ever have the kind of access that he used to have. Personally, I don’t think that’s right. As long as he continues to own mass media organizations politicians will always want to compromise with him for fear of what those news organizations could do. Even though temporarily he is not being invited to all the best parties and people don’t want to be seen as his allies, I suspect things will move on. It’s always possible that in the background the Murdochs’ role as a family within the news organizations may change. But the power of news organizations to put pressure on politicians to compromise with them, I would think that that remains a part of the landscape.


The story is getting to be the lengths the other media are going to to drag the US operations – particularly Fox News – into this. The facts so far do not support that this is a NewsCorp problem as much as a UK problem, since there were reports of other non NewsCorp media doing the same thing. The cell phone hacking is horrible but the fact is the UK media operates on a different mindset – while we think of their people as being more restrained and polite, their media makes ours look tame.
David Leigh of the Guardian is an admitted hacker who taught his students how to hack.
“Ive used some of those questionable methods myself over the years. I, too, once listened to the mobile phone messages of a corrupt arms company executive – the crime similar to that for which Goodman now faces the prospect of jail. The trick was a simple one: the businessman in question had inadvertently left his pin code on a print-out and all that was needed was to dial straight into his voicemail.
There is certainly a voyeuristic thrill in hearing another person’s private messages. ”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2006/dec/04/mondaymediasection
Rina,
Your information and therefore assessment is incorrect.
A News Corp entity in the US is already being investigated for electronic malfeasance – however it is not the well known properties like Fox News or the NY Post.
It is News America Marketing – a little known group within News Corp that controls a big piece of Point of Purchase in-store advertising market. Essentially, the coupons you see for grocery stores, etc.
News America apparently hacked into the internal computer systems of rival companies, and used that information for competitive advantage. They were investigated for this and settled the case for several hundred million dollars. To date, they have paid out over $600 million.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_America_Marketing
So, these sorts of shenanigans have gone in areas of News Corp OUTSIDE of the UK. They are just unsexy stories involving unsexy divisions of the company so few people are paying attention.
Of course, because of the presence of Fox News as a partisan player within the US media landscape, partisans from the Left and Right will robotically fall in line and support/attack. As I assume you are doing.
But it is factually untrue for you to say that this is ONLY a UK problem. And it is silly of you to suggest that the US media is just hammering this story to get at News Corp and Fox News.
I’m sure that if the shoe were on the other foot, and, say, Comcast had a problem like this at one of their international divisions, Fox News would be running with the story every day – instead of completely ignoring it – and trying to tie it to MSNBC.
That’s just what the media does.
I dont know about the Left robotically falling to one side but the story and Murdoch have been aggressively and thoroughly covered on Fox in their 6 pm weeknight broadcast. If they were told hands off, i guess they didnt get the memo. As far as being investigated, being investigated – like being indicted – does not mean you are guilty. Funny you should mention Comcast because their recent ‘issues’ were not scrutinized anywhere near as much as NewsCorps.
“have been aggressively and thoroughly covered on Fox in their 6 pm weeknight broadcast.”
Not really, but thanks for pretending otherwise.
Key info. Thank you.
There are reports that other papers hacked and that CNN’s Peir Morgan knows more then he’ll admit.
I find Nick Davies very watchable in the video interviews he has done. I hope he gets a US agent but continues reporting for the Guardian. Excellent reporter doing a great job. Can we toss Piers Morgan back?
I have the utmost respect for Davies as a journalist. It took serious balls for him to persue this story at all, but also to stay the course when pressure was brought to bear.
Given that fact, Davies’ ability to remain objective about the Murdochs’ future viability in the news world, as evidenced by his answer to the last question, is a testament to his profound professionalism. Most people would take the opportunity to grind an axe for payback, but not Davies. His dedication to reporting the facts, and investigating an issue thoroughly before making accusations, is what true journalism is meant to be. There’s far too many of his contemporaries out there spewing op ed, and calling it journalism, that could take a page out of Davies’ book.
Looking forward to reading his continued coverage of this story.
Whats been reported so far about the Murdoch hacking scandal is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg. Rupert Murdoch has always done the bidding of his powerful, secretive friends. That hasn’t changed.
The “special” Anglo-American relationship is what controls everything. The intelligence services hack into millions of phone calls, text messages, e-mails every day. Very little has to do with terrorism. Mostly its about political power and industrial espionage. J. Edgar Hoover could only dream of the blackmail power that is now so easily available. The Murdoch’s know a lot of dirty secrets, and thats what our so-called governments are all about. He still has a lot of clout… and he’ll still be in charge even if he’s not on any corporate board!
Can a journalist be truly objective? – who knows.
I would like to truly believe that Nick Davies is dedicated to pursuing the truth and reporting the facts as that is what journalism is about.
I am sure that Nick Davies also has his own agenda. Critics could argue that he is after the Murdochs for some reason or another.
The personal motivations of investigative journalists is irrelevant. They have a duty to expose possible mal-practices in global corporate organisations. *NEWSFLASH* Thats their job description!! As long as they maintain journalistic integrity and the evidence is sound, knocking them down for having possible personal objectives is ridiculously infantile.
Excellent Guest Interview Ms Finke – now that’s what journalism is all about – letting the Powerful know they are not above the Citizens they are entrusted to serve by virtue of Government, Business, or Religion. Whether or not Nick Davies had his own agenda in breaking the story is really of no consequence, because the truth had benefited the public. Unfortunately, it seems as though things will really not change much, and people like Murdoch will always have influence on Politicians, but it really helps to know that every once in a while, a Journalists can make significant changes to at least keep some things in check.
Don’t get me wrong Nick Davies can do his job very well and has done public good but also he works for the Guardian which is a rival of News Corp – there is bias, let’s not be naive.
Also, thanks to his investigative skills and following his hunch he’s getting a book deal out of this too.
What must it be like to be a part of a family that makes the most melodramatic Shakespearean tragedy seem like a comedy? The siblings routinely stab each other in the back, the 102-year-old mother of Rupert Murdoch blasts his politics in competitor newspapers, and Rupert finds himself in the position of having to fire his son. Any minute now I expect to hear quotes from King Lear.
Nick Davies is a godsend. Here’s to hoping he helps uncover all the evil News Corporation is doing in the U.S. and Australia! Maybe we’ll get extra lucky and get to watch the eventual downfall of the Republican Ministry of Propaganda, aka The Place Where Pure Evil Resides, Fox News.
Will Nick ever investigate the admitted Guardian hacker David Leigh?
Nice try but the article speaks for itself. The Guardian reported an isolated incidence where they used this practice during a BAE corruption investigation and openly admitted to it. Guardian editor, Alan Rusbridger has always spoken about its own ethics and their stance has been that there must be a public vested interest in the method used – the level of invasion of a persons privacy must be contingent upon the importance it has to the public domain and only as a last resort. Ethics during such cases can be argued but that wasnt the main problem here with news corps.
The issue with these tabloid papers made their trade by using these practices on a routine basis and were protected by the very instutions that were supposed to regulate and police them. Their practices were not simply down to enlightening the public on the misdemeaners of the rich and famous, but for their own own commercial aspirations. There’s a difference.
I should also add that part of the judge-led public enquiry into the hacking scandal will also include a review of ethics in journalism. Since journalism is self-regulated industry it will also clear up some the ambiguity around ethics and media corporations as a whole.
There is no difference. And any who believes the Guardian about anything is naive.
Just saw this comment.
Clearly you know nothing about investigative journalism.
http://www.pcc.org.uk/cop/practice.html
10. *Clandestine devices and subterfuge
i) The press must not seek to obtain or publish material acquired by … intercepting private or mobile telephone calls, messages or emails
ii) Engaging in misrepresentation or subterfuge, including by agents or intermediaries, can generally be justified only in the public interest and then only when the material cannot be obtained by other means.
THE PUBLIC INTEREST
There may be exceptions to the clauses marked * where they can be demonstrated to be in the public interest.
1. The public interest includes, but is not confined to:
i) Detecting or exposing crime or serious impropriety…
3. Whenever the public interest is invoked, the PCC will require editors to demonstrate fully that they reasonably believed that publication, or journalistic activity undertaken with a view to publication, would be in the public interest.
-
Now consider the results: Leigh’s investigation into international arms giant BAE Systems led to a criminal inquiry to be carried out by by the US Department of Justice and other international prosecutors which hit the company with a penalty totalling $529 million.
Bearing this in mind, feel free to repeat your argument about the Guardian’s and NI journalistic ethics
“the businessman in question had inadvertently left his pin code on a print-out ”
Did you actually believe that? How naive do they think people are?
It was hacked and they lied.
Nick Davies and his editors are journalistic heroes.
I wish they were here in this country during the Anthony Pellicano case to investigate the media here, including my own employer, the LA Times who never revealed their conflicts and relationship to Pellicano.
Nikki Finke was the ONLY journalist to question the L.A. Times’ slanted coverage: Written by a “journalist” who attended Pellicano’s wedding and admitted that the thug PI was his longtime news source while working with an editor who kept a Christmas gift on his desk from Pellicano and that editor’s wife (the general counsel for the L.A. Times) who wanted Pellicano to help investigate the threat (he perpetrated) against me.
Oh yes, and Pellicano’s convicted co-conspirator previously WORKED for the L.A. Times.
And NO ONE covered THAT story.