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That’s the central allegation in a class action suit filed today at the New York State Supreme Court. Former intern Lucy Bickerton — who worked at PBS‘ The Charlie Rose Show in summer 2007 – says the program “operates on an annual budget of approximately $3.5 million, which is low for a television program airing five nights per week.” Interns allegedly pick up the slack. They “perform background research from print and online sources to prepare Mr. Rose for guest interviews, escort guests through the studio and set, and break down the set and clean up the ‘green room’ ” after tapings. The problem: Under New York law, the suit says, “an unpaid internship is only lawful in the context of an educational training program, when the interns do not perform productive work and the employer derives no benefit.” But the suit says that Rose “did not provide academic or vocational training” to interns including Bickerton, who’s said to have regularly worked two to three days a week for a total of about 25 hours a week. As a result, Rose “denied them the benefits that the law affords to employees, including unemployment, workers’ compensation insurance, social security contributions, and, crucially, the right to earn a fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work.” The suit wants the court to stop Rose from continuing to depend on interns. In addition, it seeks unpaid minimum wages for all of his interns ”in an amount that cannot currently be ascertained but that readily exceeds $150,000.” Rose’s lawyer told The New York Times, which first reported the story, that “we are confident that Charlie Rose Inc.’s employment practices are appropriate.”
Related: ‘Black Swan Interns File Lawsuit
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What did the young lady think she was in for when she accepted an unpaid internship? What she describes is TV industry standard.
You are quite right, and not only in TV, but the law is the law and applies to everybody equally. In this sense industry standards as they currently stand are wrong.
Just because it’s “TV industry standard” doesn’t mean it’s legal.
Doesn’t mean it’s legal, Tom.
There’s a difference- what this young woman is describing is PA work. And as someone who survives on PA work, I’ve seen my employment decline as more and more shows get away with hiring free labor…aka, “interns”.
They’ll be plenty of naysayers against Ms. Bickerton- I hope she wins, if only for the selfish reason of having more paid work available to struggling folks like me.
Exactly right. Quit if you don’t like it, you are doing it for the experience and connections and not money. I interned and loved it and didn’t feel taken advantage of, I have also had interns and if they were great hired them.
After graduating college, I was an intern for 2 days a week and had a very similar experience to the one that Lucy describes. I had a crappy part-time job on my other days to make enough money to live. I interned for free because I wanted to work in the industry and the internship gave me the experience I needed to get a full-time paid job which otherwise would have been impossible for me to get. Thank God for unpaid internships. This girl sounds like an entitled fool. She obviously has no business in this business and should look for a job in another field. I’m glad her name was released.
Charlie Rose is Gandhi compared to Jimmy Kimmel. He abuses every intern that comes through that shitshow. Worst guy on earth and all the interns that come and go will attest…
Good on you Lucy! F all these disgusting, overpaid self-obsessed talk show hosts already!
sad that this young woman couldn’t appreciate the amazing opportunities afforded her while there. sounds a lot better than making coffee.
Yes, it’s so sad when a young woman gives up an opportunity in the pursuit of legal standards and fair treatment.
Here’s a revolutionary idea: what if profitable shows provided opportunities while obeying the law?
How about kids who know nothing and no one try to get a paying job on their own without the help of an internship. No one is going to pay someone who doesn’t know what the fuck they are doing.
Wow, kids, really?? Welcome to the entertainment business–we’re ALL exploited! That’s called paying your dues. You get screwed, used, abused but then you toughen up, get your set legs, earn your way up. What the hell? Exploited? Please… I’m no old school tough guy but today’s up-and-comers are ridiculously hyper-sensitive with an overblown sense of entitlement.
You had to do research? Walk a guest from the green room to the studio? Holy shit! How did you manage?! What a sweat shop!
I hope you win your lawsuit because I don’t want you anywhere near my set.
The law doesn’t exist for the benefit of “entitled” college students; it exists for the benefit of people who stand to lose their jobs to unpaid “interns.”
Yes, this kind of thing is common practice, but it doesn’t mean it’s right, and it sure as shootin’ doesn’t mean it’s legal.
These are not scrappy not-for-profits trying to make ends meet. They are huge for-profit entertainment companies, often transnational conglomerates. They should have to pay for labor. In fact, they *do* have to pay for labor. It’s the law. End of story.
Sorry, I WAS around back in the day. When I graduated film school over twenty years ago, I got offered the chance to do the things Ms. Bickerton was doing on another news show, but the job came with a salary. A low one to be sure, but it PAID.
The routine was: You did ONE (that’s right, only ONE) unpaid internship while you were in school, simply for credit and connections. Once you graduated, you got “paying dues” jobs: assistant, PA, receptionist, whatever, and (hopefully) worked your way up. ALL those jobs were paying positions. The ONLY thing you did for free was your own stuff (screenwriting, directing indie film, etc.)
Now, because of people like you, it’s become accepted that kids are on perpetual internships. So when do they qualify to make money? When they’ve got a year in the business? Two? Ten??? Enough of this crap!
Perfectly stated. It’s got nothing to do with not wanting to do the work and everything to do with the insanity of not paying for the labor.
And this practice automatically shuts out entry-level people who are middle-class/poor–and can’t afford to work for nothing for months. Or who don’t have connections in the business.
It’s funny- I came from a top film school and afforded me a ton of opportunities for internships- I worked for free for four different positions, doing things I shouldn’t have… running errands, cleaning up, running reception, answering phones…. all the jobs didn’t lead to ANYTHING. I was slave labor.
Then got a job as a PA through CONNECTIONS ie friends. And quickly moved up the chain as I knew my shit. I personally refuse to give “internships.” If I need work to be done, i pay a person.
Advice to anyone looking to break into the business- forget the internships… makes friends with kids whose parents have some clout, or who got a foot in the door themselves and can get you hired to a real job that pays- that is the only way to make it.
Interesting that Lucy Bickerton states that as an intern, working on the Charlie Rose show, she was not “provided academic or vocational training” and yet she performed research for the show to help Mr. Rose prepare for his guests, plus escorting guests before and after the show. All I can say is that if Ms. Bickerton didn’t learn an enormous amount being in that environment doing what she claims she did–and interacting with fantastic guests–then something was wrong. Having interned myself initially in circumstances not much different than Ms. Bickerton—-all I can say is that the way she describes her job and what she claims she DIDN’T get out of it are completely incongruous.
My thoughts exactly.
Completely agree.
Unpaid or not ,you can’t run a busies on free labor. I hope he get’s his pants sued off
As a former unpaid intern, I can say that Mr. Rose is one of the most cordial individuals I’ve encountered in this business. Working there jumpstarted my career and I couldn’t be happier with where it has taken me. People can pay their dues how they choose. Everybody has to start out somewhere. Getting sent on an errand to Henry Kissinger’s apartment and then striking up a conversation with him for the better part of 45 minutes… name me one other profession that affords you that opportunity. Paid or unpaid, experience is valuable. I now live in Los Angeles. No other internship or job has ever held such a special place in my heart. I’ll always reflect fondly on my time spent there. Working conditions were fantastic, friendly staff, and it’s the Bloomberg building – so the snacks were plentiful. Charlie Rose is a damn American hero.
That all may be true, but that still doesn’t give Rose the right, or any business in the entertainment field, to exploit people, and that’s what is happening.
It’s great you have a career now, but you could have had the same career making minimum wage there and being able to pay your bills (or some bills).
That’s the whole point of minimum wage in this country.
Agreed. I was an intern for Charlie back when he had a syndicated talk show, and I was thrilled and honored to have gotten selected. Charlie is a gracious guy, and always treated all the interns with respect. I did everything this girl did and more, and instead of finding fault with the duties most interns in this business endure, I found it an incredibly valuable learning experience and wouldn’t have traded it for anything.
Keep your cool on this one Charlie Rose. Don’t fall prey to using Rush Limbaugh style name calling with this young woman!
It is a privilege to be associated with a show like Charlie Rose and being an intern is on the job training. The associations (contacts) are invaluable. In great kitchens interns PAY for the privilege of doing the work. What was the expectation, to have Mr. Rose hold classes? the whole thing is absurd.
It may be “TV industry standard”, but it still violates the law’s definition of “internship”. This has been an ongoing problem for internships in various industries in general, but it is particularly egregious in the entertainment industry. People keep their mouths shut because they don’t want to lose the opportunity of a paid job. It is labor exploitation.
I know a few people who would gladly pay Charlie Rose to work around him in order to pickup a few industry “things.”
These interns need to choose a new career path.. they definitly won’t last in any production company I know of.
I don’t watch Charlie Rose, nor do I have any skin in the game. But what Charlie Rose provided this intern, was an opportunity. A chance to experience television production. TO BEGIN A CAREER. What’s that worth? Kids today have no concept of work. Nothing is good enough for our privileged youth. I don’t know what created it, but this is some generation we have to look forward to living with.
Or maybe today’s generation of employers have no idea that people are supposed to get PAID when they work. Once upon a time, all these “opportunity” jobs used to pay. Not much, but at least something. You started as some kind of assistant or go-fer, and you got actual, real money for your work, not just the “privilege” of gaining experience.
Kids have every right to be angry that they’re being exploited, and I’m glad they’re pushing back. Because this lowers wages and opportunities all the way up. I’ve seen absolutely astonishing job ads that want a whole list of professional skills–and then call the position an “unpaid internship.”
Get. A. Job, many of these kids are graduating with the kind of insane student-loan debt levels you most certainly didn’t. They want/need to earn money to pay down those loans, so in what way are they missing the concept of working and earning?
She needs an internship with the “Get a clue” organization.
Oh, good lord. This young woman should have thanked her lucky stars to even get Charlie a cup of coffee. If she is going to resort to this kind of victimhood, and apparently she has, her career is D.O.A.
With this generation be prepared for more stories like this. Twenty year olds want to start one day and be the CEO the next.They have no idea what work is. I am just surprised she didn’t have her parents complain first!
With “this generation”? Oh, you mean the one your generation screwed over? I’m not saying that an unpaid internship is right or wrong (I did three) but when there’s people being clearly EXPLOITED, that’s wrong. It seems like this Charlie Rose internship would have been a great one, and I wish that it would have worked out better for her. On the other hand, there are lots of companies out there who rely on their interns for the day-to-day operation of their business, and that is not okay.
Sounds like a typical day in the film industry. This is how you pay your dues and learn the business. This isn’t slavery. They were free to leave whenever they wanted. I don’t know NY law, but if this were the case in LA, our office would be half empty. Almost all of our paid assistants started as interns, and we have placed many interns at great jobs around town. I don’t get it. The only thing she will accomplish by this is making sure she never works in this industry ever again.
What company do you work for? I want to intern for you.
Anyway, while this is industry standard, it’s still not right. The mentality of “well I had to do it, so you should too” is pervasive in this industry and it leads to the horrendous hours that people are forced to put in at entertainment companies. Just because internships are how most people start doesn’t make it right. More often than not these are college graduates since they’re the only ones who can make a 9am-7pm schedule work three days a week, and they are doing necessary jobs. Every production company I’ve ever been at has needed interns to function, and it’s ridiculous that they refuse to pay them an hourly wage that would amount to less than half of what they waste on paper every year.
9am to 7pm? Three days a week? I went about this all wrong if that’s a tough schedule to navigate.
Yes, TomF while it is industry standard, there’s an argument to be made about whether it should be. Interns regularly replace paid jobs in the entertainment industry…I mean, does any production company actually have a paid receptionist, like normal companies? Of course not, it’s always interns answering the phones. I’m aware of what it takes to break into this industry and I’m sure everyone else is too, we have all entered into internships knowing what the duties and expectations are. But there’s a very valid (in my opinion) argument to be made that for the good liberals so concerned about redistributing wealth and helping the poor, it’s extremely hypocritical to depend on unpaid (indentured servitude) labor to make your company run. Many of these companies spend more on wasted paper every year than they would spend paying their interns, even though you expect it doesn’t make it right.
what is perceived as “industry standard” in hollywood is often times illegal. you just can’t call an assistant position as “internship” because you don’t want to pay someone.
we all can sit here and list agencies, management companies, production companies, casting offices that offer “internships” that are assistant positions they can have someone do for free. I did one of these, and took lots from the experience. I’m sure many of people reading this did as well. Does it make it right, though? Absolutely Not.
The climate of Hollywood and the whole fear-mongering “this is what you got to do to break in” mentality is just to inflate egos.
Not to mention more often than not the interns are college graduates, since they’re the only ones who can make the 9am-7pm schedule work two-three days a week. Not paying these interns is absurd, and if I’m ever in a position to make that call (obviously am not now), I will definitely be paying my interns.
What she describes is EVERYWHERE industry standard for an intern. Some greedy lawyer convinced her that all she needed to do was threaten the ‘Deep Pockets’ and she would get a check. Why would she think she were any different than the million, and millions of other interns is beyond me. She needs to pull her head out of her a$$.
And good luck getting a paying job….ANYWHERE!!!
Sounds like a Phd class in television production to me, the way it’s described above. Probably some nice placement opportunities as well once the class is completed. This person is an idiot.
There really needs to be a nation-wide internship strike–in all industries. All those places that give you the excuse that they’re “training” you could afford (at least) ten bucks an hour if they were forced to pay it. So just say, “FUCK NO!”
Because what happens when your internship ends is that you’ll suddenly find that for some reason, there aren’t a lot of paying jobs to do all those skills you got “trained” in. Golly, why would that be…?
Exactly right. The unpaid intern is common in EVERY industry these days. Companies are exploiting the poor labor market but converting entry level jobs to unpaid internships.
Some companies use the internship process as an audition process for future employees, but more and more of them use up their interns, then toss them by the wayside to have another unpaid intern take their place. Then what are that former intern’s options? Usually they’re not skilled enough for anything but another internship so are they just supposed to keep doing unpaid internships until they get one with a company that will consider hiring them if they do a good job?
This practice needs to stop, in all industries, but interns are afraid to speak up for fear of losing those valuable “contacts” and “references” that don’t amount to much. By replacing entry level jobs with unpaid interns you’re boosting unemployment, reducing American wages (and consequently income taxes) and for what? So a few companies can save the $200/month they would have to pay their interns if internships were included minimum wage laws. Any company that can’t afford to pay its interns isn’t a company that anyone should want to intern for.
There is about 1,000 other people behind her willing to take that intern spot at a moments notice. She’s screwed herself here… good luck with your career, Bickerton. Working only 2-3 days a week!? Know your role and shut your mouth.
Agree with TomF’s above statement. And good luck to the young woman if she ever wants to find another gig in the industry.
This sounds like every unpaid internship I ever had in this industry for which I never got school credit. That being said, I have no problems with challenging that system.
Same on both counts.
Singling out Charlie Rose isn’t fair when individuals and companies in every industry do it, but that doesn’t make it right. The whole “unpaid internship” racket needs to be eliminated.