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When I spoke to director Guillermo del Toro recently, he noted the similar circumstances between Ridley Scott’s Prometheus and At The Mountains Of Madness, the film del Toro was set to direct with Tom Cruise until Universal pulled the plug because the director would not back off his insistence of being able to deliver an R-rated film. Universal execs deemed that too risky for a $150 million film, despite it being 3D and based on storied HP Lovecraft subject matter.
Prometheus is even more like At The Mountains Of Madness than del Toro thought. Fox has confirmed that it will release Scott’s science fiction film with an R rating, rather than water the film down to get a PG-13. It is a big risk for Fox, whose executives basically are in the position that Universal execs wanted to avoid when they said no to At The Mountains Of Madness. Part of me wonders if del Toro should have gone ahead and made his movie, and dug his heels in on a rating after it was finished, but I know that del Toro is too forthright for that. The MPAA rationale behind the Prometheus rating cited “sci-fi violence including some intense images, and brief language,” exactly the same things that might have hamstrung Mountains. I’m told that del Toro is still quite intent on making his dream project, and his position could well be bolstered if Prometheus scores big this summer. It would show that an R-rated big-ticket science fiction pic can be viable. And the effort to resurrect Mountains would come after del Toro had delivered his first tentpole-sized film in Pacific Rim.
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I’ve never, ever understood the juvenile preoccupation some “fanboys” have with R ratings. As if loads of gore, profanity and violence instantly mean a superior film than a well crafted motion picture that happens to be PG-13. (Do these same viewers watch, say, JAWS or POLTERGEIST? Or do they lament the fact there weren’t more “boobies” and f-bombs on screen in Spielberg’s classic?).
The problem with PROMETHEUS is while the nerds will be happy it’s R, the chances of it seeing the same kind of box-office revenues that a widely accepted PG-13 film are nil. Not even ALIENS was the biggest blockbuster of 1986 — it did well, but it wasn’t the blockbuster some people mistakenly think that it was (go look at the box-office breakdown, it was 7th for the year, behind BACK TO SCHOOL and barely ahead of THE GOLDEN CHILD).
i think in this case, it’s more than Ridley Scott seemed like he was definitely pushing for an R rating so he wouldn’t have to cut certain things. I’d rather see what the director deems as the proper cut of a movie rather than the pg-13 rating to appease the studio.
I agree with you, as long as Scott signs off on it — so be it. It also doesn’t sound like a “hard” R either (“sci-fi violence including some intense images, and brief language” doesn’t exactly sound like buckets of blood and gore).
However it is a MASSIVE financial risk Fox is now taking with this film. It’s a movie with zero bankable stars and a connection to ALIEN that has basically been buried to anyone except hard-core sci-fi fans. It’s one thing for message board pundits to know every detail about the film, but I wonder how much the general public knows or will care about this movie — and shutting out a good percentage of younger viewers who typically go for sci-fi action is a bold move that may not pay off.
Will kids still see the movie? Sure, they’ll find a way, but they’ll be buying tickets to something else in order to sneak into it (which is what happened years ago when STARSHIP TROOPERS tanked and MR. BEAN kept making money).
Isn’t Charlize Theron in this movie? Does she not count as a bankable star?
All three Matrix movies were R. Check the box-office.
I think everyone just wants the best movie…
Alien was rated R, also. Which movie do people remember most from 1986, Back to School, The Golden Child or Aliens?
Stand By Me
Sure, a PG-13 movie could be great. The issue is, could it be better if it was rated R? Ridley Scott pushed for the R, and I don’t want him to compromise his vision so the studios can rake in more money. Maybe Prometheus could be amazing with a PG-13, but I want to see the movie Scott intended to make. I think this is why the vast majority of “fanboys” are happy to hear it’s R – they don’t want a watered-down version, and I don’t blame them.
Everything doesn’t have to be a blockbuster. Even with an R, Prometheus can make a hefty profit. This is a prequel to one of the most influential films in the horror/sci-fi genres. He wants to do it right, and it’s nice to see a director putting quality ahead of profitability. I’d rather have a Pulp Fiction or a Chinatown that sacrificed profitability with an R rating than a Transformers or a Twilight movie that busts box-office records.
I’m a filmmaker, and if you think an R rating automatically equals lots of gore, profanity and violence, well…that only shows your own stupidity.
Agreed, Chad. THE MATRIX was Rated R because (a lot of) COPS were killed. IT’S COMPLICATED because Meryl smoked a joint. ha!
Yes but the amount it has gone on to sell on video and dvd is massive. It also spawned a franchise of at least 6 or so very successful movices, thousands of comics, millions in merchandise etc. Nobody cares if it was a blockbuster when it came out, The Shawshank Redemption didn’t do well at all but went on to be huge in the video market.
R, NC-17, XXX — I’d be there in a heart beat.
Fox has finally made a movie I wanna see. Can’t wait!
Glad they are going R with this. Hopefully the adult public will get out and see it. R can be profitable.
Jaws wouldn’t get made with a young boy disappearing in a gush of blood red water being depicted eaten by a shark in a PG-13 today. It isn’t about Boobies and F bombs. It’s about making something that doesn’t pander equally to the ‘let’s water everything down to nothing’ mentality that PG-13 represents.
Adults go to the cinema as well.
So there are no “adult” movies that aren’t rated R in this universe?
Of course there are. I never said there were not.
Of course I could ask the equally simple ‘Do you think every film should be no stronger than PG-13?’ Or do you believe that any semblance of artistry, vision and intent should be sacrificed to ensure that teenagers get to see it unsupervised?
Or to make more money?
The ADD, can’t-take-their-eyes-off-their iPhone for ten seconds generation should be the demo that decides what everyone else ultimately sees? I don’t think so. Films and cinema itself require a broad range of content and there are some themes, content and storylines that require depiction in a more appropriately adult or graphic way than PG-13 normally provides. But the fact that you can’t think beyond it equating to merely has me suspicious of your intentions.
Or to merely echo the point made above – ‘Back to School’ may well have made more money than ‘Aliens’ in 1986. But which film do you REALLY think has endured for longer in movie lovers minds and in cinema history?
Fans wanting an R for the sake of an R are idiots. It’s about the filmmakers’ vision – if this is what Scott, Lindelof, Sphaits, and the rest of team Prometheus set out to make and the studio is supportive, then that’s a win for everyone.
Wow, not sure how seriously to take Del Toro or this article in general because GUILLERMO DEL TORO IS NOT RIDLEY SCOTT! Not by a long shot. No studio in their right mind would look at these two filmmakers in the same light.
Sure, del Toro is gifted, PAN’S LABYRINTH was great, but c’mon. You’re a studio about to make a 200M bet, you hold his body of work next to Ridley Scott’s and they barely belong in the same conversation.
Secondly, this is the ALIEN franchise. MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS does not belong in the same conversation. Yes, it’s an influential (and very old) work with a rabid fan base –so how did that work out for JOHN CARTER? In the awareness of the ticket-buying public, MADNESS is a blip on the radar (except for the rabid fanboys), whereas a new installment in the ALIEN franchise is a big event.
Honestly, I’m a fan of Del Toro but all this griping makes him sound a little pretentious — comparing himself and MADNESS with Ridley Scott and ALIEN. Both of these studio decisions make total sense of many levels.
tom rothman said this was not an “alien” movie, ok?
Guillermo del Toro did not compare himself, or his movie, to Ridley Scott (or his movie). The article does that, and only to highlight the debate about R rated movie being commercial or not. Calm down. Yes, Scott is one of the great filmmakers of all time. But may I remind you that at del Toro’s age he had barely started his career as a feature director and came from many years of being the most successful and brilliant commercials director in the UK. No need to put anybody down, especially such a unique and brilliant filmmaker like del Toro.
So Del Toro did not compare his movie to Ridley Scott’s movie?
This is what he said: “It feels like ‘Promethius” is a very similar proposition to our film.”
Fine, you’re right. He wasn’t comparing, just saying that the two films were “very similar propositions.”
Can’t agree with you more. Del Toro is a gifted filmmaker but his works don’t capture the imagination of a large audience. Every time I’ve watched them I’ve felt excluded from them for some reason. The hype doesn’t equal what I see and feel on screen. The movies feel hollow and not in a good way. They just don’t translate for me.
The constant pimping he gets on Ain’t It Cool News is sickening. I get it that he has a friendship with Knowles, but I think that pimping has people in the geek community believing he’s more incredible than he really is. Both Hellboy films are unwatchable unless that’s really your thing. Pan’s was interesting and I got through the whole movie but never had the desire to watch it again. His other movies I couldn’t even name. He should have clung to The Hobbit like Gollum clung to the ring. That was guaranteed box office that would allow him the ability to make a few more geek praised financial duds.
As for Fox and Ridley going R? Bravo. Asking Ridley to tone it down for a rating would have been disgraceful. I saw Aliens in the theater as a newly minted teen. I don’t remember anyone at the box office stopping me. Even if they did, there was always an older brother or sister somewhere to buy us tickets if we really wanted to see the movie. Sometimes my Dad would take me.
Prometheus shouldn’t be about 13 year olds buying tickets without an adult. It should be about the vision Ridley had for the story being executed the way he wanted it to be.
If more movies would embrace R and maybe studios do a few creative ads encouraging parents to go back to the theater with their kids to get them to see R movies together it might be nice.
To be fair, The Devil’s Backbone is absolutely fantastic.
Del Toro’s comparisons between the two were more linked to tone and story elements. I don’t think he’s comparing himself to Ridley Scott at all, Del Toro’s seems much too humble a person for that
Good. No compromise and no logistical issues getting a ticket.
The image of the alien exploding out of John Hurt’s stomach still lingers vividly for almost all when they first saw the film.
If the images in Prometheus are equally graphic, the R or even NC 17 rating is correct.
there was a time when R rated movies were more the norm here. Movies should be released the way the director intended.
All the old school fans of Alien will take their family to see this so the R rating will be meaningless and kids will buy tickets to a PG movie and see Prometheus anyways. Do the studios think the R rating is going to stop some kid that really wants to see it.
I think you’re missing the point entirely here. It’s still a restricted audience no matter the circumstances. If a 16 year old goes to see a movie and isn’t particularly interested in Prometheus, they’re not going to go out of the way to see it where they might have given it a shot if it was PG-13.
And buying a ticket to a different film doesn’t help the studio at all, so I don’t understand what you were trying to say with that.
Nobody would of bought this film being PG-13. R rating will attract kids, forbidden fruit factor.
The bottom line is, sometimes you NEED an R rated film, in order to adequately tell the story. While I’d love to live in some fairy-tale land of zero violence and sex, the reality is that this isn’t the world of some VERY GOOD sci-fi stories.
In this age of digital distribution and multiple cuts, I have to wonder why studios don’t offer up two differently-rated versions to theater chains for purchase? FOX and Scott could easily have created a “director’s” and “theatrical” cut of the film, excising the minute or two of R-worthy material, and then offered theater chains their choice of films. While I’m certain that most of the chains would choose PG-13 for marketability, certainly some would offer the “R” version to appease the hardcore fans.
Wouldn’t that work? Would it be cost-prohibitive to go that route? I realize that running the same film in two versions in one multiplex would run the risk of a high number of moviegoers sneaking from screen to screen, but that’s easily remedied by the way in which management could screen the film. (PG-13 screenings early, R screenings late, for example.)
I just wonder why Hollywood and theater chains don’t embrace the greater flexibility that digital files afford them, especially with the fact that so many films are given different treatments in the theater versus the home.
I like this idea a lot – especially now that most films are delivered digitally to theatres this is feasible?
The MPAA does not allow two different cuts of a film to be released at the same time…when King’s Speech went back and softened it to a PG-13 they had to wait months after the R versions run before they could re-release it as PG-13
No offense to Del Toro, a filmmaker I like and deeply respect –but I would prefer a Ridley Scott sci-fi movie over ANYTHING he makes any day of the week.
The problem is the rating system itself- it’s ridiculous.
Kids today are at home playing video games, i.e. pretending they are murdering people for hours on end. If they go to a movie and watch some big name actor kill someone or say a “bad word” – is that going to matter or make any difference in their lives?
Of course not.
Hate to say, but that’s an ignorant uninformed oversimplification of the gaming industry and making light of a industry no more legitimate than the movie industry. Back up your statements or do not bother saying such madness.
Not sure how these situations are alike at all. At The Mountains of Madness would’ve been awesome, but the reason Ridley Scott is able to do this is because he’s Ridley Scott and he’s a much bigger director with a better track record than Del Toro. Not to mention that Scott has directed R-rated movies that are huge hits, and I think Del Toro has only done one really big R-rated hit in Blade 2. Even the Hellboy movies were hardly huge performers.
It’s rated R for Ridley and you knew it wouldn’t be PG-13.
The stupidity is releasing Neighborhood Watch as an R which will give them much less money. It’s a shitty movie but it should be PG-13.
I remember seeing the R-rated ALIENS in the theater as a 12 year old accompanied by my 14 year old brother.
Back then, the ratings were a joke and theaters almost never turned away paying customers. Everyone knew teenagers would be going to R-rated films in droves and no one cared.
And then Columbine happened and the moral guardians of the country logically deduced that school shootings happen when you have more than one F-bomb per film.
Basically Del Toro has shot himself in the foot he could have started At The Mountains Of Madness on his own i mean he bowed out of doing The Hobbit because of the delays then does nothing,now it looks like Jackson will have finished and released The Hobbit part1 before Del Toro even starts anything…sad to say but he brought this on himself
Except he is currently filming big Warners tent-pole Pacific Rim for a 2013 release?
why does a movie have to be watered down for kiddies to make money. Why can’t adults go and see an adult flavored movie. My favorite movies as a 7-18 year old kid were r rated. if you push for a kid friendly rating to make more money you destroy the integrity of the film. Fight club would be a terrible pg-13, doing anything less than r would be an insult to the story, the director and most importantly the fans. Gore and violence has nothing to do with it. it’s the same reasons a bioshock movie has hit so many snags. You snobs want to make it pg-13 but bioshock is a very mature game. Making it for kids would ruin it. spend the money to make a movie not make more money. that’s why movies suck now like twilight.
when i went to see Alien, i was underage, and did not bring my parents with me.
My understanding is this rating fracas between del Toro and Universal over AT THE MOUNTAINS OF MADNESS started because of what happened to another one of his projects: the remake of DON’T BE AFRAID OF THE DARK, which Guillermo wrote and produced but didn’t direct.
If I remember correctly, Guillermo and others felt sure DARK would get a PG-13 rating. Yes, it had violence and disturbing imagery, but not enough (at least in their opinion) to warrant an “R”. The ratings board felt otherwise. After that, del Toro didn’t feel comfortable guaranteeing a PG-13 rating for MADNESS.
What makes del Toro’s films so disturbing is not the blood, guts or language that usually brand films “R”. Most audiences are inured to that stuff. I think he gets under people’s skin with his surreal, nightmarish imagery which shoots straight for the subconscious.
The important thing is, Scott is a happy camper, so his movie won’t suffer. Yes, he could stumble, but I don’t think so. The movie will do just fine. When I saw the original release of Blade Runner with that forced, stupid voiceover then the superior director’s release later, it was so obvious how you’ve got to let a visionary do what he’s got to do.
People make a big deal about movies like Prometheus or Die Hard being rated R because of what they are. The unrated cut of Live Free or Die Hard is better because John McClane is more of the character we love. Part of why people remember Alien so well is because of some very particular gory images like the alien bursting out of the chest of John Hurt or the first time the Alien tongue (or little alien in the aliens mouth) first bursts through someone or when Bishop is torn in half in Aliens. These are images that were unforgettable. I’m not saying this could not have been a good movie at PG-13, but I always prefer the directors vision to be fully realized.
I am very interested in Promethus, love Ridley Scott and most of this cast, and believe this film will most likely live up to it’s hype. However, do any of you think the box office hype might be a bit overblown? It’s an R rated sci fi film with no huge stars except Charlize. Fassbender is great, but I’m not sure he’s bankable yet. All of the film nerds, sci fi nerd, and people into the industry are into this…but what about the general public? I’m curious as to what others think.
Why do you care about the box office hype? This movie is being released as Ridley Scott intends. I personally don’t care how much money it makes – I’ll be there. I want to see the director’s vision; not some watered down abomination that some studio exec bases on a focus group. It’s not like the box office on this film will save the U.S. film industry.