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Warner Bros owns Rotten Tomatoes (through the social movie site Flixster.com). Warner Bros also owns The Dark Knight Rises (with co-financier Legendary Pictures). Now the studio finds itself with the weird and rare dilemma of protecting movie reviewers who hated the movie from furious Rotten Tomatoes readers. AP reports tonight that RottenTomatoes.com for the first time ever suspended user comments today on movie reviews of the final installment of Christopher Nolan’s Batman trilogy hitting theaters Friday. Why? Because the comments savaged and threatened those critics who wrote negative reviews, including Marshall Fine of Hollywood & Fine, Christy Lemire of The Associated Press, and Nick Pinkerton of the Village Voice. However the movie overall has an 84% positive rating on RottenTomatoes.com. Matt Atchity, the site’s editor-in-chief, told the AP: ”It just got to be too much hate.” There’s no doubt that RottenTomatoes.com is a controversial site – and even more so now. Atchity also told The AP he is worried about a similar backlash when director Peter Jackson’s The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey is released later this year. “We may do away with comments completely or get to a place where comments are only activated after a movie opens.”
Related: ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ Doesn’t For Media
Editor-in-Chief Nikki Finke - tip her here.
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After reading these so-called “reviewers’” commentary on TDKR, I have to say that they invited the backlash. Every review appeared to have a personal axe to grind. The AP’s reviewer loved BATTLESHIP, so I’d have to say that she’s hardly a pro. Any person with half a brain knows that film was a disaster.
Rotten Tomatoes has encouraged this kind of stuff for a long time, so I hardly feel sorry for them.
You may not care for Lemire’s reviewing style or her personal taste, but she has been reviewing films for the AP since 1999 – she’s a professional.
Maybe TDKR will be the greatest film ever projected on screen, maybe it’s a dud – the reviewers have a right to their critiques and we get to decide for ourselves if we want to read them. The fanboy/fangirl tyranny over anyone who dares to criticize their favorite filmmakers is like the Iranian mullahs issuing fatwas. Step away from the keyboards people!
I have no ‘dog in the fight,’ when it comes to The Dark Knight Rises. So, if Lemire dislikes the movie, it doesn’t bother me. But I do think she was blinded by her expectations for the film, which would explain why she didn’t like it but recommended Battleship.
Bob, you seem kind of like you have a personal axe to grind against Battleship. Why is Battleship the ultimate deciding factor on whether or not someone is a professional film reviewer or not? I think that if she gets paid to review films she is, by definition, a professional. There is such a thing as subjectivity when it comes to reviewing film.
A number of critics who gave it a “fresh” rating said it wasn’t as good as The Dark Knight — so clearly it does not appear to be on the same level, particularly if several critics outright disliked it. Naturally that is going to inspire these Batman idiots to attack anyone who doesn’t think TDKR is the GREATEST MOVIE EVER!! I mean, you haven’t even SEEN IT YET and they’re angry about reviews? What a crock!
It’s a problem with RT’s system. Their “fresh” rating means nothing to me and never has since movies that only receive “good” reviews — not “great” ones — can get higher marks than more divisive films that get higher marks from the people who truly admire it. As someone admitted below, just because BRIDESMAIDS gets 92% fresh doesn’t make it one of the great movies ever made.
Frankly I figured most major critics had drank the Nolan kool aid so much that this film would be 100% positive. INCEPTION was massively overrated IMO from major critics.
The problem with the reviews on RT is the constant comparison to The Dark Knight. We know how amazing Heath was, but each rotten review I read seemed to mention that aspect, and it creates a very biased view IMO.
Yes, everyone is entitled to there own opinion, but when you factor in the types of movies that the producer makes, I think most people will simply assume the movie is not going to be bad. A rotten tomato is a rotten tomato. It’s not saying the movie isn’t as good as the 2nd, not saying it’s pretty good, but not amazing, it’s saying The Dark Knight Rises is a ROTTEN movie. Really, what’s the chances of most people feeling that way after seeing it?
I think reviewers in general just lose a love for movies altogether, and end up being overly critical and off-base. It even feels like they are negative for the sake of controversy and getting hits at times. I felt the Amazing Spider-Man was a great new adaption of the movie, and overall like the more personal direction and closer comic-book themed story a lot better than the original 3. Every rotten review on RT stated how “early” it was to do another Spider-man, and seemed to miss reviewing the movie on there own merits.
Well spoken individuals, but RT are completely off-base at times with my own personal taste, and they do seem overly critical, so I’d say they brought this on there own. There are just really really BAD movies out there, so when someone puts as much effort into something like Batman, I think just being critical of it seems extremely rude and self gratifying.
I, for one, did NOT find Heath Ledger’s portrayal of the Joker “amazing”, but that’s beside the point.
Critics and reviewers (many don’t realize it, but there is a difference) only lose love for the movies when Hollywood continues to excrete the crap they’ve been force-feeding the public for decades. Hollywood treats moviegoers much like Dr. Heiter treats his human centipede.
Well said. The fanaticism of the fanboys is frightening.
Professional? Probably. Recommended Battleship? WTF!
TDKR’s overall quality is, of course, fair game for a movie reviewer. But giving a positive review to a film like Battleship and a negative one to TDKR is not an objectively defensible position. It is not simply a matter of taste; there are objective and technical factors which serve to necessarily elevate one film over another from a critical standpoint. As the first commenter noted, Lemire brought this on herself and lost all credibility.
Brock, movie reviews are absolutely a matter of taste. There is nothing objective about it. It is not possible to “prove” that The Godfather is superior to Paul Blart Mall Cop. You may as well claim “objectively” blue is better than green. A reviewers responsibility is to give their honest opinion on the quality of a movie. They should be allowed to do that without being abused or threatened.
You can’t quantify movie quality, Brock. It’s all based on the audience’s taste and expectation. You may disagree and name out technical factors to prove your point, but ultimately it will still come down to subjectivity, something that is relative and not absolute.
I agree you cannot quantify movie quality, but that is an entirely different proposition from saying a film’s quality is entirely subjective. Citizen Kane is a better film than Paul Blart for a host of objective reasons (e.g., script, cinematography, narrative techniques, special effects, makeup, acting, soundtrack, innovation, etc.), even if they cannot be reduced – as of yet – to a mathematical formula or a numerical grade.
Likewise, the Mona Lisa is a better painting than the watercolor portrait I made in kindergarten, though there does not yet exist a mathematical formula to prove it.
Most people recognize that “what are my favorite films?” and “what are the best films?” are two different questions. The problem with Lemire, and why she generated such blowback, is that she seems to base her reviews on the former, which tells more about her than about the film. A critic is supposed to dispassionately review a work and leave their own peculiar biases, preferences, and/or predilections out of it.
Let’s take the example of a right-wing professor of political science grading the paper of a student defending left-wing ideas. The professor doesn’t personally like or agree with the student’s ideas, but we all recognize that the professor’s differing subjective political tastes are not a justifiable basis to give the student a poor grade. Rather, the professor must grade the paper based on whether the student’s arguments are well-reasoned, whether they’re adequately sourced, whether the paper is well-written and organized, etc. If those considerations are adjudged positively, the student gets a good grade, regardless of whether the professor personally dislikes and rejects his thesis.
So, too, with film critics.
The thing with critics’ reviews is that they are supposed to give their subjective opinions on the movies they watch — not list technical factors that went into the making of the movie. A critic is not supposed to be dispassionate about what they say and they are paid to give their biased opinions.
What if she felt that Battleship delivered as a fun summer movie and TDKR was too boring? Who are we to say that she was wrong? It’s all subjectivity.
So, in other words, Lemire should shut the hell up, pack her bags and find another roost – just because YOU don’t agree with her (Hell, just because thousands of rabid fans don’t agree with her)?
And I thought I was living in America.
So much for freedom of speech in this country.
You obviously don’t have a clue about “freedom of speech.” The freedom of speech means simply that the GOVERNMENT cannot punish you for what you say (with certain narrow exceptions). It has no application to private conduct. Employers are free to fire those whose spoken views they disagree with, dislike, find offensive, regard as nutty or otherwise absurd, etc., and the general public is free to call for such person’s firing or boycott their work.
Only a state actor can violate an individual’s constitutional rights.
It’s always amusing when someone as clueless to the Constitution as yourself starts trying to invoke it within the context of private (i.e., non-government) conduct.
To Brock…
Freedom of speech is not just some archiac term in the Constitution, it’s also a vital and critical component of our society, and any true Democracy.
Leaving aside the threats of physical violence made against these critics, there’s a disturbing trend towards demanding the silencing of dissent. Look at the number here who justify the vile and violent comments on RT because Critic A liked Battleship and didn’t like TDKR.
Well, all I can say is welcome…welcome to the growing population of pointy headed morons who believe someone “brought it on themselves” because..
1. They wore the wrong clothes
2. Of their sexual orientation
3. Their religion is different.
and finally, the stupidest, the most moronic of them all..
4. They disagreed with you about a movie.
She is not a professional and her reviews prove that on a regular basis. It also seems like one person who keeps changing their name to defend her on this comment thread
You use one lazy crutch after another. “So-called”… putting reviewer in quotes… bringing up an irrelevant “Battleship” review as a straw man… deploying the phrase “anybody with half a brain”…
Make a real argument instead of just spewing half-assed negativity. You and the rest of the irrational, knee-jerk fanboys need to get over yourselves.
I think I just became what I was criticizing. This non-issue issue just gets me riled up.
Congratulations on being the billionth internet commenter to use the “Well that reviewer liked [insert movie here] therefore his/her opinion doesn’t matter” argument!
People only think a reviews has an axe to grind when they disagree with the review…..otherwise the reviewer is SPOT ON! WHAT A SMART CRITIC!!!
This is what happens when nerd culture becomes mainstream: The mainstream gets to experience the virulent, internecine idiocy of fanboy wars.
Gross, dude. Please keep your prejudices to yourself.
Or at least consider the more logical conclusion – every group has individuals good and bad. Like whatever social strata you might identify with. They have to put up with your needless strident, pretentious pseudo-intellectualism…
It doesn’t seem like a big deal to prevent users commenting on professional reviews, anyway. Most of the time, the user comments in that regard aren’t particularly constructive, and don’t add much to what the site’s users can tell about the quality (or otherwise) of a movie. I wouldn’t remotely miss that feature.
I also think RT should at least try to stop users posting ‘User Reviews’ of movies without even seeing the film. People quite openly post ‘reviews’ along the lines of “Haven’t see it and no intention of doing so – the trailer sucks!”, along with a poor rating. Those poor ratings from people with no actual idea of what the film is like squew the overall user ratings (either good or bad) in a way that does the site no credit.
They should stick with their model based on using professional reviews for their ‘Fresh’ ratings, and encourage users not to post reviews or ratings of their own until they’ve seen a movie.
The site does look cleaner and more professional without 12-year-old fanboys cursing at people.
87% positive now, which makes the whole thing even crazier.
Why now? The troll comments and threats are nothing new; it happened with the Avengers, Twilight, hell even going back to the Star Wars prequels. By even acknowledging you give the crazies all the attention they want. Then again, the film critics responding seem thrilled to be relevant for a few minutes.
Rotten Tomatoes is problematic and needs amending.
Agreed, because anything resembling a positive review gets a “fresh” certification. Therefore, BRIDESMAIDS must be one of the greatest films ever made because it was at 92% fresh, right? That’s why RT’s system is so flawed — that, and grouping legitimate critics in with any moron who has a blog.
The reviewers themselves, not the Rotten Tomatoes staff, decide if they think the movie is rotten or fresh.
And about the system, you can click on top critics, and then only the more “professional” critics will show up.
Nikki is quite right to point out the conflict of interest here. The point is not how good or bad the reviewers are nor how good or bad the movie is. This is about who controls the Internet.
Where is the conflict of interest here?
WB wants publicity for TDKR, that’s WB’s interest. WB wants to pump up the buzz, get people polarized, get people saying, “I’m going to go see TDKR so that I’ll have an informed opinion when everyone’s talking at Starbucks.”
So a site owned by WB shuts down their comments. And everyone talks about it. Buzz, publicity, polarization. Seems like WB gets everything it wants with no conflict at all.
I don’t think this is an example of someone trying to ”control the internet.” Any site has the right to set the rules for their site. If they choose to not have reader comments, that’s ok. They are certainly not stopping someone from using a different forum for their comments.
Also, I don’t care where you post your comments, NO ONE has the right to threaten bodily harm to someone else just because they don’t agree with their opinion. I would hope RT and Warners would refer such comments to the proper authorities for further action.
Errr… what? It’s their site – they can do whatever they like with it.
The conflict comes with the supposed impartiality of linking reviews – if Rottentomatoes starts only linking positive WB reviews, then it loses what little credibility the tomatometer has. How that has anything to do with “who controls the Internet” I have no idea.
“This is about who controls the internet.?
Oh, bullshit. If you don’t like the site, start your own. You’re FREE to do so.
Anybody who doesn’t realize that these companies(Warner bros) pay losers to hang out on comment threads and argue with people about obvious pr buzz they try to create, how about the fact that up here in Canada we had cops at the premier because one guy in Colorado snapped, we’re they afraid that another neuroscientist was gonna crack in every city or did Warner bros use the death of those innocent viewers to manipulate fear and have cops at every movie theatre thus making the movie even more exciting for viewers. The lengths they go to for publicity these days is disgusting
The issue is, you see this type of thing occur all the time on the internet. At least on twitter, it is easy enough to block them…but the websites are usually not moderated as closely. It crossed the line a long, long time ago. It’s happened to critics in the past, to actors and actresses (usually to the actresses/singers who date the actors/singers that have a particular strident fanbase), and people in all sorts of public positions. They really, really need to moderate comments more on most websites.
It’s just not Rotten Tomatoes, most websites need to get rid of their comment sections). And when I say that, I especially am referring to sites like Rotten Tomatoes or IMDb. A lot of nonsense, political b.s., racist and sometimes violent rhetoric that has no place on the internet or society.
Comments on sites like this (Deadline) are usually always constructive and informative. Why? Because the only people who visit this site are for the most part working professionals in the industry. What does IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes have… fanboys. If you’ve been to Comic-Con or any comic book convention for that matter, there’s a reason they’re “fans” and not working pros. These are the people seeking out reviews like this, or posting misinformation on IMDb listing all the time.
The only solution is to kill comment sections like those on RT. It’s the only way, because monitoring comments and allowing only certain people to post and others not is just 1984. Either have a constructive working comment community (like here), or don’t have it all.
Just my two cents.
Rotten Tomatoes has done more to damage film criticism than anything else in the entirety history of film criticism.
As an aside, arguing that a critic liked one film over another is a false equivalency. Roger Ebert reviews films individually, and bases his commentary and stars on whether or not the film was successful in what it was aiming to accomplish. I have not read Ms. Lemire or Mr. Fine’s reviews yet, but perhaps they felt Battleship accomplished “dumb action movie” better than The Dark Knight Rises accomplished “finale of a highly anticipated film trilogy.”
Also it should be noted that it’s not just “threats” that these critics are receiving, it’s DEATH threats. That’s why Rotten Tomatoes closed their commentary section. The people who frequent and comment on review blurbs a) don’t read anything past the selected blurb and b) sit behind their computers anonymously while telling female reviewers to “get back in the kitchen” when they can’t properly form rebuttals to arguments because THEY HAVEN’T EVEN SEEN THE FILM. In my opinion, the site should just get rid of the commenting system on review blurbs completely.
Good comment
The fact that a studio owns what has become a major gathering site for movie reviews should not go unnoticed. In trying to avoid having this spoiled, I’ve avoided reviewers known for spilling the beans. Best review I’ve seen is Drew McWeeney’s over at Hitfix, where he manages the challenge of giving a proper review without spoiling the movie.
I’m not to sure how much of this is truth, and how much is hype. But it’s easy to see how difficult it can be to take RT seriously, given it’s ownership.
That all said, RT really should focus on gathering professional reviews and maybe leave the user comments and reviews for Twitter and social network sites.
Rotten tomatoes picks and chooses which reviewers it will use so as to rig the percentages! I know I was an assistant in that outfit.
Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB should have a 2-Week Moratorium imposed on all movies…meaning people cannot comment on a movie until it has been released for over 2 weeks.
I am so tired of reading movie reviews before the movie even opens.
Then don’t read the reviews, student. It’s not that difficult. Might want to get a real education.
I think it’s terrible that the lives of reviewers were threatened over negative TDKR reviews. That’s reprehensible and it’s a case of “too little, too late” avid fanboy-ism. The lives of the reviewers should have been threatened the moment one of them posted a positive review of Battleship.
There is clearly something else at work here. Some people want to see the film achieve 100% on the Rotten Tomatometer. It’s very much akin to the utterly rare “mint condition” comic book rating, the 10.00 which is practically impossible to achieve and is reserved for comic books so pristine, they seem to be fresh off the presses.
The fanboys probably assume the contrarian reviewers are churlishly trying to foil such an accomplishment by Chris Nolan.
And having read the reviews, they may have a point.
If the movie got the near-universally positive response the previous installment got then obviously this “conflict” wouldn’t exist–which in and of itself should tell you something about this movie.
Good lord they are just as bad as 13 year old Justin Bieber fan.
Good.
Rottentomatoes needs to stop giving voices to every narcissistic, uneducated dork with a facebook account. I don’t think professional critics appreciate it much when angry 12-year-olds respond to them with “LOL GTFO YOU’RE WRONG!” or “WTF HATERZ GET YOUR HEAD OUT UR ASS PLEASE!”.
Sometimes I hate the internet.
I personally think that the hype created such a bad taste in most critics mouths that I think some were determined to scream FIRST! For the laymens out there you have to understand most comic book movies stink, they suck sweaty locker room jock straps stink. Considering the current state of romantic comedies, rom Coms still retain a better rep than your average comic book flick. You could count on one hand the good ones that have been produced. When Nolan came along with his take on Bats it was the first time a filmmaker since Dick Donner intentionally decided to make a FILM out of a pulp source. To fans of Batman this was Christmas. This was the first time a filmmaker got the essence of the character and the world which is essentially crime drama. Most critics don’t give a shit about that. They’re reviewing the film cold without any pretense. Which is fair and logical. The work should stand on its own. But…you can’t blame the fans of going ape shit over reviews that seem flippant and reactionary and most importantly clueless about the character. Batman is the crown jewel of the comic book universe. He is a literary icon. You can’t just say OH THAT SUCKED and not expect some brush back. The death threats go beyond the pale and should not be tolerated, but don’t suppress the passions of the legion of fans who hold these movies and the characters dear. This isn’t comic book fluff. This is art. And people are protecting it.
I agree with Nikki – Warner Brothers should have let the death threats continue.
The review website we need but apparently don’t deserve.
I knew someone would try to make a comment out of this quote… and you… you’ve misquoted it. Its the review website we deserve, but not the review website we need right now.
Remember the nasty comments Armond
Curious. Filmmakers are routinely threatened by fans on Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB, Ain’t It Cool, etc. I can’t count how many times I read that So-And-So Writer, Director, Producer or Star “should be dragged out and shot” or some variation there of.
I have even read that level of hatred and call-to-violence coming from the “professional” reviewers on sites like Ain’t It Cool and others, but there’s never any outcry or policing of that. It’s pure red meat to the mob.
So now that it’s the Reviewers being threatened they hastily pull the plug? Seems like a double standard, no?
Reviews are never in a bubble. Yes people go in with preconceptions about a movie or director. Also the movie itself by genre will hold certain expectations. Frankly I thought Battleship was a fine summer blockbuster. And it did not hold itself to anything higher than that. Nolan’s Batman movies have not been good representations of the comic character. They have been fine analysis of duality and psyche of his Batman within an action movie. But it hardly uses the character or the world that character exists in the comics.
Roger Ebert once gave some summer action flick a thumbs up and on the same show gave some foreign film a thumbs down. Siskel called him on that asking if that meant Action was a better movie than Foreign and Ebert responded of course not, but the one movie succeeded in what it tried to do where the other failed.
You are spot on, regarding Nolan’s representation of Batman. Nolan’s Batman franchise fits inside the “action” genre, but it does not belong in the “comic book” genre. Nolan has made Batman a serious, relatively down-to-earth action character surrounded by similarly realistic supporting characters and situations.
Although I loved “Batman Begins” as an alternate take on the Batman character’s beginnings (I was extremely disappointed in “The Dark Knight”), I did not recognize Batman from the comic books I used to read as a child.
Who cares about professional reviews anyway ? I read the scenario, sometimes watch the trailer and if it attracts me I watch the movie, end of story.
I actually enjoy Rotten Tomatoes quite a bit. It’s very easy to use and to find critics I enjoy.
However, it’s been the wild west in terms of commenting for YEARS now. The community is shameless and juvenile. Real punks who’ve abused anonymity for too long.
Of course, it’s second only to the idiots at IMDB, but that’s another story.
Matt Atchity has dragged his feet on this issue for far too long. Go back to the negative reviews on WALL E for some real hate speech, or even THE DARK KNIGHT. Where were the RT editors then?