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This morning, I received a tip to check out the rumor that Fox Studios television shows will be going all video/all AFTRA in 2009, that older film shows will be shot on video, and that SAG actors will be renegotiated with AFTRA contracts. Here is the response I received from Twentieth Century Television: "With all the uncertainty surrounding the stalled negotiations with SAG, TCFTV is indeed considering shooting its spring pilots under the AFTRA agreement. As for shows already in production, we are exploring every option including transitioning shows from SAG to AFTRA."
EXCLUSIVE: 20th TV May Shoot Spring Pilots Under AFTRA And Transition Existing SAG Shows To AFTRA
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OK, SAG folk, that would be the proverbial “wake-up call”.
Yes, it’s a threat from 20th, but it’s not something to dismiss or ignore. Because they’re not kidding.
Better heed the handwriting on the wall and take a contract while you can still get one and then renegotiate in a couple years.
Huh. When the SitDownShut up writers wanted sony to switch from IATSE to WGA they were told a union switch was impossible, but now Fox claims they can swtich from SAG to AFTRA. Amazing what a studio can do when they want to fuck you up the ass.
ain’t gonna happen….I am a sag actor, and did an aftra show, well I had to fork up 2 grand to join aftra! I don’t see that happening en masse, there will be a riot on sunset!
and as for that letter in variety from clooney and the other millionaire club fat cats, they really are showing their true colors
Unless they break contract and the law, they can’t change SAG to AFTRA. New pilots? Yes. Existing shows? No.
No surprise there. Does any AMPTP mogul hate stand-up unions more than Peter Chernin? Chernin deserves credit for snookering the WGA into believing that he would walk out of their private negotiations, if they didn’t give up their more serious demands.
“Unite for Strength” must be grinning. Especially a certain trio.
A fair contract for ordinary actors, and the survival of S.A.G. are minor matters for these three.
What really counts is Vengeance.
It’s the engine of the Vote No campaign.
The rest of us worry about online residuals or the Internet going non-union. Many are concerned about the state of the economy. Stars fret over huge fees that could be lost during a strike.
But for Richard Masur, Melissa Gilbert and Mike Farrell, the struggle is an Elizabethan quest for Revenge.
Ask an al-Qaeda recruiter, or a Mafia lieutenant: Vengeance is the most consistently reliable motivator. It drives on when other motives sputter out. Most vengeance seekers seem to outlast most do-gooders.
See page 344 of Farrell’s memoir, “Just Call Me Mike.” In a shocking shift of narrative tone, the normally bland Farrell spews vitriol against MembershipFirst (M1). What was M-1’s crime?
“They succeeded in chasing a bright and dedicated president, Richard Masur out of office.”
Farrell and Ms. Gilbert set out to avenge Masur’s defeat and take back the Guild from the “vulgar,” “brawling” militant Barbarians. Farrell was justly celebrated as an advocate for human rights. For many of us, he had earned a measure of moral authority.
Farrell and Gilbert won office, but the lustre of their celebrity wore off and their “moderate” AMPTP-friendly policies cost them their popularity. They suffered Masur’s fate and were then more vengeance-driven than ever. Now, as pariahs to many rank-and-file actors, they needed to avenge, not only Masur, but themselves, as well.
One of the most famous quotes from the Vietnam War was, “We had to destroy the village to save it.”
Masur, Gilbert and Farrell’s unspoken motto would be, “We must destroy S.A.G. in order to vindicate ourselves.”
Corollary: “We must destroy S.A.G. so that AFTRA can absorb it.”
Anyone still think New media is the biggest issue facing SAG at the moment?
Remind me again: what’s the upside, for actors, to having two actors unions?
I intend to vote NO on the strike autho vote, and I do not want to see all the network shows go to AFTRA as this will keep many middle class actors from making their health insurance, when they have to split their earnings between two unions to qualify.
But having said that, this still feels a bit like a threat and the language says ‘considering’. You can not move a show to from aftra to sag, once it has been established as SAG.
I was under the impression that the union needs to be determined “during the initial casting process” – which means that they can’t change mid-stream. But then again, who knows what else Doug and Alan can botch.
Did anyone think this WOULDN’T happen? No on the strike.
Nicely Done SAG, we’ve successfully started the free for all march to AFTRA’s crappy payrate. AFTRA, your hands are just as dirty, you get a round of applause for sneaking around and offering yourself up to producers at the cheapest rate possible. To what end?
Just for the record SONY has been doing this for a year already. This is a fact that you can check if you do not believe me.
No surprise there. With “90210″, AFTRA opened the network floodgates. It was only a matter of time.
First, they cannot move current shows to AFTRA unless there is something I am unaware of. There may be some clause if they go from film to video, but I REALLY doubt that. Once a SAG show, always a SAG show.
Second, I’m guessing most of the new shows and pilots will go to AFTRA. Producers would be idiots if they shot SAG contracts under the auspice of a potential SAG strike. This is the consequence of the fighting between the unions and separate contracts. Make no mistake that decisions on many pilots and new shows will be made before the strike authorization vote comes back. And make no mistake that AFTRA will get a lot more contracts than they ever have before.
Now, can we all be adults and agree to disagree. The constant yelling at others for past events and expressing thier opinions really has to stop.
Discuss? Yes.
Discuss passionately? Yes.
Yell, scream, berate and call others names? No.
There is no place for yelling, screaming and name calling in a constructive conversation.
Just because someone urges fellow actors to vote yes or no on an issue doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking of their fellow actors. It doesn’t make them evil, or self-centered or bad people. There are two sides to this coin and each have valid concerns.
If we can’t DISCUSS, but only argue and fight, we will be completely defeated.
No surprise this would happen considering the studios can pick their casts from the equivalent of Barners or JC Penny. And I hope to hell that Alan Rosenberg and his fellow strike mongers weren’t surprised by this because, if they were, then they’re more inept than most everyone thought.
And to those chastizing actors for accepting a job, go fuck yourself. Actors (and their families) have to eat. Real actors act. Fake actors sit around and call for strikes to explain why they can’t land a gig.
It can and will happen folks. If SAG shows cannot be converted they will be put on hiatus and replaced by AFTRA pilots turned series quickly. AFTRA intiaitions for a whole cast would be 20 to 40 grand which could be easily paid by the studios as a signing bonus. Sure some SAG actors could refuse to take the roles, but the lines to fill them will be long and new talent could thrive. Believe me, FOX is already has new pilots either already shooting or in pre-production and under AFTRA contacts. Some of these new shows will stick around and some SAG shows will not return after SAG settles. I really don’t see this as being limited to Fox either as there is I hear rumblings from the WB lots as well. January will be very busy either way.
Good lord. Some of the posters here are either the truest of idiots or getting paid by the AMPTP. Fox isn’t switching over to AFTRA because of fears of continued labor unrest with SAG. They’re switching over to AFTRA because they’re cheaper and they know most of you are so desperate for jobs (regardless of the economic environment) that you’ll work for anything as long as you can tell your friends you’re on a show. The economy could be great, the economy could be terrible, SAG could have a contract right now, SAG couldn’t have a contract right now, Jesus could be walking Hollywood Boulevard handing out 7-year deals and they still would be trying to go over after the contract AFTRA just signed. The current environment is just good cover. Anybody with half or even a quarter of a brain knows that.
Unless they break contract and the law, they can’t change SAG to AFTRA. New pilots? Yes. Existing shows? No.
Comment by Matt Mulhern
A more interesting question would be how long would it take a studio or network to cycle out of all SAG shows and convert all ops to AFTRA?
One season will do enough damage while leaving only shows in the top 20 or so covered by SAG.
When they are canceled from the schedule SAG would be too.
All this while the studios save money on AFTRA shows.
What should the actors do?
First I told everyone that studios would do this. Second, yes they can do it for existing shows cause the SAG contract is currently expired and has been for July. They are working now under an expired contract…kinda like a month for month lease on an apartment. Hence, hello AFTRA and less money for working actors. Once this is done, you will have to join AFTRA to work on television.
SAG leadership just threw every actor under the bus.
AMPTP couldn’t be happier right now. Actors fighting with actors, the exact opposite of the monolithic solidarity of the actors with the writers during the WGA strike that no studio saw coming. The actors ended the writer’s strike, why can’t they understand that the only power they have is when they speak with one voice, as the faces of show business?
Rosenberg does not have the support of his membership, that should be evident to him. He should withdraw the request for strike authorization, for he surely will not get it. I hope he is not suicidal and does the prudent thing.
The reason successful A-listers are against the strike is NOT because they’ve “got theirs” or they “don’t care about middle class working actors.” If they didn’t care, they would just say…nothing.
They’re risking their necks in something that will gain them only criticism. And by the way, isn’t it just possible that really successful actors understand something about..business? How it works? How leverage is the only thing that wins a negotiation?
What makes you think AFTRA, in gaining power, won’t ultimately be able to do feature films (shot on digital video, as even 100 million dollar movies now are?)
Do you think there is some unbreakable law that prevents AFTRA from repping actors in all digital media?
SAG and AFTRA merging and coming back strong in the next contract negotiation is leverage. A split and fractious union that remains the sole holdout in town is the opposite of leverage. It’s time to fold the tents and go home. SAG needs to get its house in order. The smartest and most successful members know that. How do you think they got so successful? By being smart and picking their battles in their own careers.
SAG Actors, wake up:
Pilots are going to go AFTRA if they possibly can from now on. Already started last year (Ex. A: The Cleaner). Nothing you can do about it now.
Except what the WGA suggested you do three years ago: mend fences with AFTRA.
If you don’t unite with AFTRA and work on bettering their shit contract, AFTRA will always be the preferable alternative for producers. Always.
Good luck.
Please dear god, make it stop. Can no one see now that merger is the only answer for a future. This is just one more smoke and mirror move from corporate america to scare the union worker into submission. Please vote YES on the strike auto and prove we have a SET…
Hey, with Fox’s craven, transparent attempt to union-bust here, you don’t suppose that the New York “No” List having so many A-List stars (particularly producers) is actually reverse psychology? I mean, when it comes to money issues and A-List stars, the public usually sides against the stars. Heck, if it’s about money and big star-led production companies and big studios/networks are all on the same side of the issue against the leading union in the biz, then it’s clearly the wrong side almost by default.
Okay — I’m just an audience member originally from Northern CA now living out in the sticks in the midwest (and a flaming liberal with no union ties) — but in light of the Rethugnicans’ laughable-but-dangerous attempt to bust the UAW, I don’t think Fox or AFTRA or the NY No-Nothings could be more tone-deaf if they tried.
— Rob
Question: should a SAG strike occur, and last more than 90 days, could the studios then wash all contracts as they did during the WGA strike? I’m not trying to stir up any negativity for either side, but what’s the ruling on force majeure in that case?
Ladies and gentlemen,
Until the recent TV theatrical negotiations, AFTRA’s contract was the same as SAG’s. AFTRA’s is now better. SAG doesn’t have one.
If you speak to the issue of cable shows, then AFTRA and SAG have a differing view on how to grow the business. SAG has taken a position that asserts “my way or the highway”, and many producers have taken the latter road. AFTRA has taken a position that allows it to negotiate rates reflective of the budget of new production, with the ability to increase rates as shows mature. It has been successful in keeping more producers in the country.
That any producer looks to do business with providers who want to partner with them in the quest for success is not at all surprising. Beat your shoe on the desk and swear you will bury them and crack like the Soviets.
Oh how the studios must be laughing at us. SAG is like a bear caught in a trap getting weaker and weaker. SAG NY leaves SAG for dead. So did all the big time actors (who also happen to be producers BEE TEE DOUBLE YOU). Now Chernin goes for the kill. When…How…will SAG exist in such a weakened condition?
We need a Christmas miracle.
to reel busy
what should the actors do?
how about,
everybody call AFTRA and tell them to stop undercutting SAG?
Hey, folks…what’s the point of whining about AFTRA continuing to steal contracts? WE ARE AFTRA! 40,000 dual card holders.
If we don’t like what AFTRA does, WE have the power to change it. Just be strong enough to STAND UP. No one’s forcing you to work under an inferior AFTRA contract.
Of course the producers will go to which ever contract is cheapest for them. Duh…!
If we, the members, want a contract to remain a SAG contract, then we have to stand up and say NO when they try to move it to AFTRA.
Have we NO courage left at all?
Will we just roll over and let the AMPTP have it’s way with us?
Will we truly LET them do away with our residual formulas? With Force Majeure? Will we permit them to use non-unon actors? We are a UNION, for God’s sake!! Why are we condoning non-union work??!!
Good God, people — have SOME sense of your own worth.
Stand up for rank and file actors.
Support the negotiating team and the board that YOU voted in place.
VOTE “YES” on the strike authorization.
SAG is fighting the tide and should have merged with AFTRA when they could have given birth to a new, more powerful union. Film is not long for this world on TV. HD Video will be used exclusively sooner than anyone thinks. This is not an idle threat from Chernin. This is the future. AFTRA will be making all the deals. Anyone who doesn’t think this is true is probably still using a VHS recorder or an 8 track.
Entirely as I thought, AFTRA agreed a shitty contract to destroy SAG, an objective where their interests align with the AMTP, and clear evidence that they don’t care about the well-being of their members, other than increasing their numbers.
Do any “Vote No” people seriously believe that (i) the AMTP will be any more generous next time round, something they have never done in the past and/or (ii) that the guilds will work together when AFTRA are out to gain membership dues and power at SAG’s expense… why would they?
I would love to take a multi-thousand dollar bet with somebody that neither of those happens. Baldwin/Devito any others are you reading this?
Plus this is the AMTP already changing their original offer, now something else SAG will have to negotiate is coverage on pilots, and the AMTP can use that as extra leverage in taking things off the table.
I have to say as an industry outsider I have never witnessed a worse situation in which the negotiating committee of an institution has been comprehensively undermined from the inside. Never.
It now looks like both SAG and AFTRA have answered my earlier question – can’t happen.
Could they cancel the SAG show and then order a pilot for say CSI the Next Generation Las Vegas under AFTRA or any other show.
The Questioner:
It does zero good and enormous harm to get your facts wrong as the AMPTP ramps up its fear campaign.
Again – existing SAG shows to AFTRA? No. Read AFTRA’s own release above to confirm this. New shows? Yes.
The cultivation of scripts leading to green lights for pilots, leading to pilots, leading to decisions regarding whether they are going to be picked up or not, is a multi-month, sometimes longer, process.
The AMPTP CAN try to speed it up, but the fear they will be warping the process, and therefore damaging the creative possibilities for these hothouse flowers will give them serious pause.
A wholesale shift to dropping current popular SAG prime-time network shows, and shifting to an AFTRA-only prime-time network slate, is not good for the creative process, which, ultimately, is what leads to those rare hits or semi-hits vs. the multitudes of losers. That is not changing anytime soon.
Also, even AFTRA, that poacher extraordinaire, would think long and hard about making a full out play to take away all scripted prime-time network shows from SAG in terms of new pilots.
Despite AFTRA’s unsavory actions that have led to this current breach between the two unions, even AFTRA realizes its best interests lie in, at the very least, a workable relationship with SAG.
At a certain point, it also becomes clear to AFTRA (I believe it has already) that, despite AFTRA’s producer-friendly compliance in this contract so far, they understand the producers will cut their throats too if it serves the AMPTP’s purposes.
This is a time for calm, and to let SAG’s strike authorization process go forward AS ALREADY VOTED UPON by both the national and negotiating committees. IF the strike authorization passes, the final decision rests with the national board of SAG.
But, every day, any and all union members of ANY of the creative unions are seeing more and more clearly that the mercenary tactics of the AMPTP are only going to be stopped or even slowed by collective action.
If SAG strikes, the business will not shut down entirely, but it will be severely impacted, and the AMPTP knows that, and their shareholders will be very displeased by the results of a prolonged strike.
If you add that the SAG demands are all entirely reasonable and easily affordable by an AMPTP that truly wants to go forward into new media in a partnership with the makers of its products, rather than a grudge match of diminishing returns for both sides, then, the aggressive actions and statements of the AMPTP fall into a different context – one of bluster and bullying to make a strong p.r. pitch to stop SAG from getting a strike authorization from its members which will empower our negotiators to put the ball decidedly in the AMPTP’s court- “do YOU want to cause this work stoppage by forcing this unsignable contract down SAG’s throat, or do YOU want to actually, for the FIRST TIME, NEGOTIATE a contract instead of DICTATING the demise of middle-class actors to save money you could easily afford to pay.”
Jesus what backstabbing by Aftra.
Thank God directors can’t write.
AFTRA signed a producer-friendly (and actor-hostile) contract, so of course some networks want to produce more under AFTRA.
Unless AFTRA moves into theatrical production, the movies are still SAG. What the moguls don’t want anyone to notice with all their bluster about AFTRA television pilots is that a SAG strike would cripple film production and totally throw their 2010 and 2011 summer plans into chaos.
SAG has a lot of leverage, if the guild says to the AMPTP with one voice that we will not accept an actor-hostile union-busting contract.
As of this moment, the popular media is giving too much play to AMPTP desperation moves and the agendas of actor-producers who have a clear conflict-of-interest (take George Clooney. I love his work, I love his humanitarian work for Darfur, but the dude’s also a director and producer, and he tossed back his WGA card in a snit over a credit assignation issue on a film that almost nobody saw).
Actors need to keep in mind that this is the initial DVD argument on steroids. Over the next two decades or more there are tens of billions of dollars in compensation (pay and residuals) at stake for actors from new media. We cannot put off this fight. The future of the guild rides on this contract. It’s suicide to get this one wrong.
For those more in the know than me:
If there are 40,000 dual card holders and a goodly portion of them vote NO; that would mean the remaining 80,000 SAG only members would all have to vote YES and there still would not be a 75 percent approval for a strike.
Or, am I assuming wrongly that the overwhelming majority of dual card holders will vote NO?
I am an AFTRA member. I was forced to join AFTRA when I booked a recurring role on a cable show filming in NYC. After forking out the dues which were more than the show paid me for three days of filming and travel, housing,yeah I’m a union member. What??? no residuals? What??? no AFTRA castings in my home state?? WTF??? And then after the second episode…they wrote my character out!!!!! I know that happens to everyone. But dang it now I’m a card carrying member of the most useless union in the country.
What is the point of this union?? I made more money working on non-union productions than I ever will on anything from AFTRA. They are selling videos of my episodes, they have rerun them multiple times on the cable network, and are selling them on ITunes. How much of those profits do the AFTRA actors see?? Zero, zilch, nada!! I am SAG Eligible, what a beautiful thing this union is…was…
The contract that was already in place was already better than any other contract of any other union in any industry in this country. The leadership doesn’t really seem to have a grasp of what the economic situation is in this country. Just think about it… a SAG actor working on a SAG national commercial earns tens of thousands of dollars for 1 or 2 days of work.
I’m sure all those laid off GM employees would like that gig.
But I digress… AFTRA needs to ratify their inadequate contract, and SAG needs to rethink the timing of this strike. It would be a horrible thing if all the pilots/movies/series were AFTRA. This actor needs to pay the light bill and on those AFTRA rates that ain’t possible.