UPDATE: Warner Bros TV issued a statement similar to 20th TV's later today: "In response to the uncertainties created by a potential SAG strike, WBTV is also considering all of its options, including those involving digital productions done under AFTRA agreements." Warner Bros' Barry Meyer is known to be one of the worst hardliners and biggest bastards among the Hollywood CEOs when it comes to dealing with the less compliant guilds, and is leading the way for using New Media as backdoor pilots. (As TheWb.com's sales pitch says, "The next great network will not be televised." Or unionized, the way things are going...).
Besides Warner Bros and 20th TV, I hear Disney also has been trying to pit SAG against AFTRA. Starting as far back as August, I received word that Disney was "pressuring" Shaftesbury Films, their Canadian production services provider on a 2009 show Aaron Stone, "to sign a deal with AFTRA to cover the use of American stars and guests on the new series so it could continue production should there be a SAG strike," an insider emailed me. "Shaftesbury initially refused because they're not contracting the artists. That happens through Disney. But Disney is insisting they do this to prevent the appearance that Disney is circumventing SAG. It would seem to indicate at least one of the major studios is not bargaining in good faith with SAG."
Which makes sense since Meyer, along with News Corp's Peter Chernin and Disney's Bob Iger, have been orchestrating the current SAG negotiations stalement, with the other studio and network moguls blindly following their lead. This happened during the WGA negotiations and subsequent strike, and this is happening again with the big actors union. Now the moguls are seeking to exploit the still fresh wounds between SAG and AFTRA. Which may look like a shrewd move now but may be short-sighted after SAG actors see what they don't get from AFTRA.
Previous: 20th TV May Shoot Spring Pilots Under AFTRA, Transition Existing SAG Shows To AFTRA
It's clear that my exclusive news earlier today about Twentieth Century Television intention to move its shows from SAG to AFTRA has caused a shitstorm with those two actor unions. And I have to ask: Is Peter Chernin's Fox trying to start another SAG vs AFTRA war? Divide and conquer is a familiar Big Media strategy when it comes to the Hollywood guilds, after all. To remind you, this morning I received a tip to check out the rumor that Fox Studios television shows will be going all video/all AFTRA in 2009, that older film shows will be shot on video, and that SAG actors will be renegotiated with AFTRA contracts. Here is the response I received from Twentieth Century Television: "With all the uncertainty surrounding the stalled negotiations with SAG, TCFTV is indeed considering shooting its spring pilots under the AFTRA agreement. As for shows already in production, we are exploring every option including transitioning shows from SAG to AFTRA."
Now I have first SAG's response, and then AFTRA's, followed by the AMPTP's:
SAG Statement:
"
We should not be surprised by the timing of this new AMPTP attack -- as usual, they are attempting to use scare tactics to influence the member vote in the upcoming strike authorization referendum. Any effort by Twentieth Century Television to shift existing programs from SAG to AFTRA would violate federal law and AFL-CIO rules, and the Screen Actors Guild will take any and all necessary and appropriate action to insure the right of its members to be represented by the Guild."
And AFTRA's statement:
Regarding media inquiries about press reports about an assertion that Fox is transitioning shows from SAG to AFTRA, AFTRA is setting the record straight by offering the following
1) Fox has been a long term AFTRA signatory, historically producing both dramatic and non-dramatic programming under AFTRA’s TV Contract for decades. For example, Married With Children, the program which historians now describe as the show that built the Fox Network, was produced under the AFTRA TV Code. There are countless other scripted programs from Arrested Development to The Bernie Mac Show to Roc and others produced under AFTRA contracts during Fox’s history. As such, the fact that Fox is producing programs under AFTRA contracts is not unusual; indeed, it is consistent with the long history of this Company’s signatory relationship with AFTRA and consistent with the historic ebb and flow of coverage between the two unions as technology has shifted over time.
2) It is more expensive for Fox to produce scripted programming under the AFTRA TV Contract. Prior to July 1, 2008, the rates terms and conditions of the AFTRA TV Contract for Prime Time scripted programs were identical in every way to the SAG TV Contract. As of July 1, 2008, the AFTRA rates have been increased as a result of the membership’s ratification of the new Prime Time “Exhibit A” terms. The inference that Fox is somehow saving money by producing under AFTRA’s Prime Time Contract is incorrect.
And, finally, 3) AFTRA has been absolutely clear and explicit, long before the question of a potential strike by our sister union was contemplated, that a program already established under one union cannot be “converted” or “transferred” to another union. AFTRA is a chartered union of the AFL-CIO, and a member of the Associated Actors and Artistes of America (the Four A’s). As such, the rules and obligations of both the AFL-CIO and the Four A’s would prohibit such a “transfer.” In addition, even if there were no such restrictions under the rules of our parent organizations, it wouldn’t matter. Simply stated, AFTRA would never participate in such a practice. Fox Labor Relations is very well aware of this.
Finally, here's the AMPTP statement on behalf of Big Media:
SAG's overheated statement regarding the organization of pilots cannot obscure the fact that, in the midst of the greatest economic crisis of the past 80 years, SAG is persisting with a failed negotiating strategy that has already cost SAG members nearly $40 million and will cost them potentially hundreds of millions of dollars more during a strike.
We should not be surprised by the timing of this new AMPTP attack -- as usual, they are attempting to use scare tactics to influence the member vote in the upcoming strike authorization referendum. Any effort by Twentieth Century Television to shift existing programs from SAG to AFTRA would violate federal law and AFL-CIO rules, and the Screen Actors Guild will take any and all necessary and appropriate action to insure the right of its members to be represented by the Guild."
Regarding media inquiries about press reports about an assertion that Fox is transitioning shows from SAG to AFTRA, AFTRA is setting the record straight by offering the following
SAG's overheated statement regarding the organization of pilots cannot obscure the fact that, in the midst of the greatest economic crisis of the past 80 years, SAG is persisting with a failed negotiating strategy that has already cost SAG members nearly $40 million and will cost them potentially hundreds of millions of dollars more during a strike.


All the new shows will be aftra. I have already been to many meetings about this and believe me when I tell you that the NEW SHOWS will be aftra everywhere.
They wont convert shows but how many film shows do they have on programming right now? 24 and prison break, thats it. Sarah Conner is video.
In the digital age doesn’t the whole film vs. TV feel a bit antiquated? Many shows that used to be shot on film are now or soon in the process of being shot on HD (digitally) = VIDEO. It’s only a matter of time before everything is digital video. Call me naive but doesn’t it make sense to take the film vs. video equation out of the SAG/AFTRA contracts — Geez, I mean like about five years ago…
Time to sign a contract SAG
The drama.
It’s cheaper in the short term to shoot tape, but it doesn’t do much for a TV show or movie’s future value.
Many of the network sitcoms shot on tape in the 80’s will never look better than they did on 1”. They can never be upgraded or restored, because they were shot on an obsolete analog tape format. All you can do is upconvert the crappy old masters, and in HD they look even crappier.
The shows that were shot on film (like Cheers) can be remastered from the negative to HD. In ten or twenty or thirty years, they can be remastered again from the film to whatever succeeds HD, making them more valuable in the long run.
The trade-off in saving money today by shooting HD is losing it in twenty years when your show is ‘only’ in HD.
checkmate
The AMPTP statement said: “in the midst of the greatest economic crisis of the past 80 years,”
So let’s see… 2008 minus 80 equals… 1928. So this is the worst economic crisis since 1928? Man, no wonder the AMPTP can’t figure out how much to pay the WGA for new media residuals — they can’t even handle simple arithmetic! (They can’t handle simple English either if you consider that they failed to proofread their own press release.)
And this failure of simple math is especially lame, coming from someone named “Counter.”
There they go again with the “failed negotiation strategy” line again. A tacit admission that a better deal is/was possible if only SAG had somehow negotiated differently. So why not put THAT deal on the table so progress can be made? But no, SAG’s the bad guy for refusing to eat sh!t…
When SAG and AFTRA decided to negotiate separately and AFTRA took the deal, I said it would mean AFTRA gaining new grounds in traditionally SAG-dominated territories. And don’t get me wrong – it wasn’t just me; people across the industry warned that this would happen. How much more is SAG willing to lose? The guild is fractured, their sister guild is getting the deals now, they’re losing money already in not taking the deal.
When AFTRA says “Don’t worry – we can’t transfer and our shows are more expensive” – what they don’t mention is the fact that their shows WILL KEEP SHOOTING if SAG strikes without the solidarity the writers got. The studios don’t want to write new SAG contracts cos it could derail their pilot schedule – but not if it’s an AFTRA deal.
The way it looks now, SAG’s tearing itself apart, their former co-negotiators are making a profit and the AMPTP doesn’t care about their strike threats. I’ll just be glad when they finally FAIL to get the strike vote, cos some of them like working, and more importantly, CAN’T AFFORD to go on strike right now.
The vast majority of scripted network shows are still shot on film. High Def is the exception not the rule. The CW has Gossip Girl and 90210 on High Def. But the big 4 networks still shoot film because it looks better. Actors prefer film, its more flattering, especially if your over forty. Sony is trying to force all of their TV production to be shot on High Def. They want Hollywood to use their cameras.
Film is the only medium that is future proof. Its an archive that lasts 100 years. 35mm film has the equivelent of double the pixels of the current high def standard of 1080p. Look at all the old films that are being transfered to Blu-ray disk. They look sharper than they ever did in the movie theater.
Most scripted TV shows use Kodak HD transfer film. A print is never struck..In what is called the “Digital Intermediate” process. Some people think this process is superior to High Def. Mainly becaus film has exposure latitude, and the archivability of film. In other words if you screw up the exposure, you can fix it in post. You can’t fix high def if you screw up. With HD transfer film the negative is immediately digitized. On the Fox lot ALL the scripted shows are shot on film. House, Bones, Prison Break, How I Met Your Mother. Even TV’s top sitcom 21/2 Men is shot on film.
Wow – people, let’s do a little intelligent research before opening our mouths, ok?
dimes: the difference between 80’s TV & HD is profound. 80’s tape is NTSC which yields only 480/525 vertical lines of resolution, is shot at a terrible 29.97 frames per second and was recorded in a magnetic analog method. HD can be recorded in 1080p at 24 frames and is largely indistinguishable (from a resolution point of view) from 35mm. Ultra HD which is around the corner boosts that resolution to up to 4500 vertical lines.
AMPTP funny: what’s wrong with the math? 2008-80 = 1928 which equals the year immediately preceding the start of the great depression. Perhaps they’re off by one year but I don’t think there are many people confused aside from you.
What a misleading headline. 20th is not trying to start another SAG vs AFTRA war. They’re just being pragmatic.
Being realistic and pragmatic are the last words you’d use to describe the SAG leadership these days.
When does AFTRA become a division of the AMPTP? Isn’t it just a formality at this point?
Listen, if SAG had merged with AFTRA, we’d be in such a stronger position (bet all of you who were fear-mongering about how a merger was going to threaten your precious pensions are not feeling so smug now). SAG leadership blew it then, and they are completely imploding now. A strike will decimate SAG as well as fail to get a better deal. Face it. Game over.
Why isn’t anyone talking about residuals. Am I wrong in saying that AFTRA shows pay NO residuals until the original base is covered? And SAG shows pay from the first re-use?
Joe – your point about exposure errors is well taken however the Red sidesteps that by shooting Raw. Color correction and pushing & pulling exposure can be handled in post.
Kodak is phasing out motion picture film manufacturing. Kodak film will no longer exist after 2015. There’s always Fuji & Agfa.
Hey there NMH retard:
You said, “AMPTP funny: what’s wrong with the math? 2008-80 = 1928 which equals the year immediately preceding the start of the great depression. Perhaps they’re off by one year but I don’t think there are many people confused aside from you.”
It’s not off by one year, you dolt. So you think this is the worst economic crisis since 1929? Really? Nothing that happened in ‘30, ‘33, ‘37 is worse than today? What’s the matter — you don’t know how to use Wikipedia?
I am so sick of AMPTP shills like you being paid to post on these websites. Especially uneducated ones with barely a GED.
The stock market may be down 40 percent, but the amptp companies are down much much worse. Look at CBS, down NINETY percent. These are the people who are criticizing SAG’s business skills? Please.
The current crop of studio and network CEO’s is by consensus the worst of all time. Can you imagine Brandon Tartikoff taking Bob Costas’s old talk show “Later” and stripping it at 10 pm instead of Hill Street Blues? I mean, that gives you some sense of the visionless morons in charge of things today.
People are wondering if SAG will survive but the real question is: will CBS, NBC, etc. A few more margin calls and they won’t.
Hey, Call me Stupid:
(What’s in a name?) The disinformation you’re spreading about AFTRA shows not having residuals similar to SAG shows is not only incorrect — the new AFTRA deal is paying MORE than what SAG is getting under the 2005 agreement SAG actors are forced to work under, but also let’s not forget that this kind of disinformation campaign is what split the two unions and broke Phase I in the first place leading us to where we are now. Tarring AFTRA is the equivalent of “W’s” WMDs…there ain’t no there, there. Working actors must unite, merge SAG & AFTRA, and plan for 2011 with WGA, DGA & IA, not prolong the intra-union pisching contest.
Joe Brown-HD is the way everyone is going in tv. The actors have no say in what acquisition format is chosen. Often times the DP has no say in what format film or hd is used. Before they hire a DP in tv that has already been determined by the studio. My agent tells me your going in for a film meeting or HD meeting. Done. The Studio doesn’t care about resolution or latitude, they care about a controllable line item. That means HD. Film’s costs vary wildly compared to HD. IF you shoot 10,000 ft a day instead of 5,000 it doesn’t double the cost it more than triples it. In HD if you shoot 4 tapes or 8 the cost is only a fraction higher. TV is the “factory” and as a factory worker you don’t get to decide how the widget is assembled, you just assemble it the way THEY want you to. Features are different. There you can pick your format.
I notice AFTRA says it is more expensive to PRODUCE projects with AFTRA, not more expensive to RUN them. That sentence was carefully worded, I’m sure.
Yes, the session rates for AFTRA went up with their new contract. So it is probably a little more expensive to create the original show in terms of session fees. But AFTRA pays little or no residuals, thanks to the free exhibition windows. So in the long term, actors make FAR FAR less money on an AFTRA contract, and the studios make alot more.
Just keep in mind, the studios both produce and distribute the product. They will just stop airing the show when it comes time to deliver on the residuals.
I guest starred on almost identical shows: a SAG sitcom and a spinoff that went AFTRA, distributed almost the same way. The difference was many thousands of dollars in my pocket — about $6000 to date, on one episode of one show.
Anyone who thinks actors make more money under AFTRA is either a liar/shill, can’t do the math, or has never worked both contracts. It’s obvious to those who are actually working the contracts.
Steven Soderbergh just shot “Che” entirely on the handheld HD Red camera.
The failure to unite with AFTRA was a severe blow to SAG. It made the kind of solidarity the writers had going into their negotiations impossible to achieve — and that kind of solidarity is all the more crucial when you’re talking about going out on strike. Given the absence of such solidarity, a strike would merely be SAG blowing its own brains out.
Wait three years, SAG. At this point it’s not just wise negotiating strategy. It may be the key to your survival as a union.
And for all you BTL-ers who are freaked out about the possibility of a strike … you realize that HD camera companies come complete with task forces set in place to be your production and post production crews, right? The Red Camera people call them “ninjas.”
You all need to get smart and realize you’re freaking out over a strike AUTHORIZATION that is really the one thing that could put you in a position to work in a totally new environment and format. You’re worrying about the past when you need to be looking at the future.
You can rent the Red, and you can buy it (the whole package) for less than $50K. You really think you need the AMPTP? Don’t squander your future over a dying medium.
AMPTP Funny: Now here is the problem with people like you. I don’t have any agenda for anyone other than myself but you somehow assume that I MUST be paid by the studios to possibly disagree with you or to point out what they might have meant in their statement regardless of their underlying point. So your response is to call me names. If you are indicative of how SAG responds to debate then it is clear why SAG is getting screwed.
As for your point about ‘30, ‘33 & ‘37. It is perfectly reasonable to look at the decade from 1928-1938 as all part of a single economic period and by referring to 1929 you are indicating the era that commenced in 1929 and what followed. We are in the first year of our current economic mess (the recession officially started last December I believe) and it will continue for some time to come. Furthermore, it is reasonable to look at 1929 as the start of the depression and GDP fell precipitously until 1933 at which point it began to grow. In 1937 it fell again, but not as steeply as in 1939. While the EFFECTS of what happened in 1929 resonated throughout the decade, it is arguable that the events of 1929 were the worst from a macro perspective.
All that aside, were you really confused about what they meant when they said 80 years?
Submitted as a comment on Sagwatch.net (but not accepted by them – not as I post it here anyway, after several attempts on Sagwatch)
———————————-
You know, you really should examine the possibility that Nikki Finke’s website is on the right side of the issue, rather than her being ANYBODY’S “mouthpiece.” Her site features EXPONENTIALLY more dissent, despite what you call her “bias.”
AS proof (as if it’s needed) lets just wait for the responses to my comment here on Sagwatch. As usual, on Sagwatch – it will be about 19 to 1 (little old me). Your stance that your are “unbiased” is truly delusional.
I dare you – DARE YOU! – to have the balls to put together a quick study of anti-MF, pro-AFTRA, comments on Sagwatch. I DARE you!!!
It will be, in my rough estimate – oh, 85% to 15 %. And the MAIN reason for that is, most pro-MF, anti-AFTRA merger people don’t even BOTHER to blog here – EXACTLY because there’s no point, because Sagwatch is so completely and utterly in the tank for the anti-MF. pro-AFTRA crowd.
Then – I DARE you!!! – go over to DHD, go through some of her archives, and try to come up with a rough estimate of what’s printed there. I guarantee you it’s more, oh, 60/40 pro-MF, anti-AFTRA. Sometimes its 50/50 ,and SOMETIMES it’s almost straight up anti-MF and pro-AFTRA, depending on her post. You show me ONE post in the HISTORY of Sagwatch that was heavily pro-MF and anti-AFTRA and I’ll eat my fucking hat.
Your contention otherwise is a complete JOKE. Put your money where your archives are (and DHD’s are) and PROVE it. Good luck with that.
And. also, you leave out some rather pertinent information. Nikki Finke seemed to me to be intimating or suggesting that FOX was trying to create a “shitstorm” between SAG and AFTRA, by blatantly printing that FOX was “exploring their options” regarding existing shows going from SAG to AFTRA.
All SAG and AFTRA did was print that that is not a possibility.
Are you then saying FOX was NOT trying to create a shitstorm to suggest changing SAG shows to AFTRA? Of course they were. Only it was such a joke – even AFTRA wasn’t buying it. But YOU portray it as if Nikki Finke were trying to create the shitstorm – NOT FOX. That’s not just bad blogging, it’s dishonest blogging, and the reason you have essentially no credibility in the pro-MF, anti-AFTRA community, or much elsewhere for that matter.
Too Latesaid:
“Listen, if SAG had merged with AFTRA, we’d be in such a stronger position.” True. But impossible at the time.
“A strike will decimate SAG as well as fail to get a better deal. Face it. Game over.” Not so true.
In fact, a strike AUTHORIZATION will get the AMPTP to drop this insane position and return to SAG what it’s foolishly trying to take away (in particular, that 60 MILLION DOLLARS from the WGA strike force majeure).
I strongly agree with an earlier post that the AMPTP, by suggesting that SAG’s negotiation tactics were “bad” absolutely implicitly tells us that they (the moguls) have a better offer to give SAG (if, in their opinion, our negotiating was better). And that’s what this strike AUTHORIZATION is all about – negotiation and tactics.
As to the damage a strike would cause, yes, heads will roll. But the AMPTP stands to lose so much as well – and they know it.
Bring them back to the bargaining table. Vote ‘Yes’ on the strike AUTHORIZATION. It ain’t over yet, no matter what the AMPTP says. They have a better deal to offer SAG, and they’ve so much as said so.
AMPTP funny, I think you’re missing the point – the “80″ years expression was a ball park figure. Considering the scale and magnitude of the current global economic slowdown, its way to early to tell how it will stack up historically (note – its called the business cycle for a reason, a slowdown is not unhealthy). Easier to view these things in hindsight. To your ridiculous point though: depending on your qualitative assesment of the current credit and job markets, this is maybe the most significant economic slowdown in the last 78, 75, or 73 years. Eighty sounds better assclown.
All of this is about fear. Let’s pray SAG sends out the strike authorization ballots with background information that
1) lays out the facts about what SAG is asking for
2) what the AMPTP refuses to gives SAG members
3) why any of it matters — with foresight examples
4) why SAG has to fight for a better deal than AFTRA — comparing the two
Working Actor: The ballots should be a simply worded yes or no on the strike authorization without bias or influence to EITHER way. Any thing included to coerce a vote EITHER WAY would be illegal as well as immoral as well as cause questions about the outcome which could cause the vote to be nullified. I hope that SAG will have the decency to respect their members with a simple yes/no ballot.
Prediction: The Strike Authorization will fail. Doug Allen will be fired. A new negotiating committee will be formed. The AMPTP, which is punishing SAG because of the “Allen’s” will give in on force majeure, and a deal will be struck.
Some of you are so naive. Shooting digitally doesn’t mean that you are shooting in HD or NTSC, you can shoot 4 K files that can live forever and be backed up over and over and over again by just copying the files. They have no dirt, no scratches, no gate weave, no gate hairs, so shrinkage, etc… With time, these files will be even better quality. So to say that these shows will be comparable to shows from the 80’s shows how behind you are in understanding today’s technology.
Goodbye SAG, Nice Knowin’ ya. Hello AFTRA and thanks for keeping us all working!
lachawkfan
Dear SAG:
I can’t wait for the near future when I am generating all of the actors on a 3d computer to do anything that I want them to do…..no egos, no catering trucks, no Star Wagons, no actors! I will be working and you won’t this time! I just want to say thanks for the extra work.
Sincerely,
Digital FX everywhere
If AFTRA ever topples SAG I and 1,000s other will Fi-Cor AFTRA to its demise.
Early this year I wished for SAG to act responsibly. But, as an organization, it has shown that it cannot.
That is its destiny, as its voting members have no real skin in the game, in the way that reasonable people define skin in the game. (”Wanting it” doesn’t qualify….) With over 90% of its voting members not gainfully employed in the biz, SAG radicalism is inevitable. And radicalism results in the the working adults deciding to do business elsewhere, i.e. with AFTRA. AFTRA will put SAG, and its legacy of stakeless voters, out of business.
I no longer want SAG to act responsibly. I am happy for it to remain militant, which will hasten its demise. I am content watching the crash, which is already happening.
I just learned that Chapter 9 is the bankruptcy section for governments. I wonder which section will cover a failed labor union? We will certainly find out.
Although I will lament the loss of pensions and welfare for working SAG members when the trust fund crashes, I will relish the public spotlight on SAG thugs when the whole cabal unravels.