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Nag! Nag! Nag! These days there's just no pleasing the AMPTP (now led by that princess of petulance Carol Lombardini, who's still snookering all the moguls by not leveling with them about what's really going on). Look at this latest exchange between Big Media's footsoldiers and SAG over the big actors guild's new special bulletin updating members about contract negotiations and postcard polling their views on the pact's provisions and progress.
September 1, 2008 -- AMPTP has issued the following in reference to a postcard mailing that SAG's negotiators have sent to members: "It's long past time for SAG's negotiators to close this deal, and a mass postcard mailing is just another delay tactic meant to mask the fact that SAG's negotiators have no coherent strategy. In fact, SAG's postcard 'poll' appears to be designed to deliver just one thing: A result pre-ordained by SAG's negotiators. With four new contracts this year, the Producers and the other Hollywood Guilds have moved on, and we are now back to work. The longer SAG's negotiators hold out, the more SAG members will lose out on the new media rights and residuals, salary, pension and other increases in the Producer's $250 million final offer."
September 1, 2008 -- Response to AMPTP from SAG national executive director and chief negotiator Doug Allen: “The AMPTP previously suggested that we send their last offer to our members and now that we have done so they object. It is understandable that the studios and networks are concerned about the members' reaction to a proposal that contains incentives to produce non-union and no residuals for new media productions re-used by steaming on the Internet. It is appropriate that we inform our members and seek their input on these critical matters. The reason we don't have a deal yet is because management hasn't put an offer on the table that is acceptable to SAG's Natiional Negotiating Committee and National Board. The AMPTP hasn't yet been willing to modify their new media "template" to make it work for actors.”
September 2, 2008 -- Statement by the AMPTP: "SAG's mass postcard mailing is designed to give SAG negotiators the answer they want to hear - and only the answer they want to hear. The two questions on the postcard "poll" are written in a completely one-sided way, characterizing the June 30 final offer as unfair. The 12 pages of material accompanying the postcard are just as one-sided and are filled with misrepresentations. For example, SAG's negotiators continue to insist that talks are ongoing. The facts are exactly the opposite: No informal negotiations regarding SAG's TV/Theatrical contract have been going on, and for SAG's negotiators to suggest otherwise is to intentionally mislead the membership. AMPTP has made the new media template work for directors, writers and actors (in two separate AFTRA agreements), and all have now gone back to work. It's long past time for SAG members to begin enjoying the higher wages, plan contributions, streaming and other new media residuals already being paid to other Guild members."
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It’s too bad the SAG membership can’t sit in on the negotiations, because they’d see what total liars and manipulators the AMPTP negotiators are.
These guys make an art out of NOT negotiating in good faith. They just want to bully us all into working for as little as possible – never negotiating as equal partners. And you’re right, Nikki…. they never tell the Studios what’s REALLY going on. A senior union official (not SAG) told me that during their negotiations, these scumbags would come to an agreement on a major point, then change the language in the actual contract document that had to be signed off on so it was completely reversed… often trying to slip in stuff that wasn’t even discussed in the room. The studios should take back control of negotiating with the Guilds and shut down these clowns.
It’s true that the words in the choices on the mailer are leading. But it does not change the fact that the AMPTP are union-busting assholes.
AMPTP has made the new media template work for directors, writers and actors (in two separate AFTRA agreements), and all have now gone back to work. It’s long past time for SAG members to begin enjoying the higher wages, plan contributions, streaming and other new media residuals already being paid to other Guild members.
Bullshit. The landslide approval vote of my fellow WGA members notwithstanding, the “template” is a crappy deal that screws writers and actors alike. WGA leaders were also given the take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum in those “informal” negotiations with Chernin and Iger, and told to sell this sickly turd to the membership because it’d be the only deal we’re getting. Which they did, and all too well, because the membersheep fell right in line.
Just one question
When is the AMPTP going to get with the program and make a realistic (non-insulting) offer to SAG? Did they learn nothing from doing the same thing with the WGA?
When are people going to stop busting the current SAG leadership’s balls over the AMPTP’s bully tactics?
“When is the AMPTP going to get with the program and make a realistic (non-insulting) offer to SAG? Did they learn nothing from doing the same thing with the WGA?”
They don’t think they have to make a fair offer, which is the biggest problem. By standing on their “final offer” they’re taking a huge risk that SAG won’t strike to get a fair deal. They’d be wrong.
With all of this recently outed information about the contract and the negotiations, people are finally beginning to see the truth. That truth is gonna snowball into a huge backlash against the producers. And when it’s all over, the AMPTP will be outed for the [expletive deleted] they are. All will not be forgiven.
Okay I have a two-part question as well:
Let’s say we reverse the roles and offer the ‘last’ proposal the AMPTP had on the table to the individual moguls themselves…i.e. they can kiss their high salaries, stocks, stock options, company pensions, and varied perks buh-bye instead getting paid SAG guest star minimums every day and company performance bonuses along the lines of SAG residuals.
We should ask each and every mogul if he or she would jump at the chance to take this deal and why or why not?
If they say no and squirm a lot SAG’s membership will have an excellent idea of the royal screwing they are being asked to take (and which the numbskulls leading AFTRA for reasons I can’t understand or explain jumped at actually taking…
The AMPTP will be very pleased if “Unite-for Strength” wins six seats to gain a majority on the National Board. (Ballot due Sept. 18)
The AMPTP might even add a few little tidbits to their “last,” insulting offer — tidbits to reward the party that defeats MembershipFirst.
The member poll is a gamble by our negotiating team. If a majority of us fills in the “Continue negotiating” box, it’s hard to predict what will happen next. (Ballot postcard due Sept. 15)
On the other hand, it’s easy, I think, to predict what will happen if a majority of us checks the “Accept final offer” box. We roll over, expose our butts and surrender. Welcome to the non-union, residual-free World of New Mediums.
Ace,
The amptp don’t need to be ‘forgiven’ or ‘outed’, this is sadly mainly a BUSINESS! Most people are hurting and twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to have a contract.
We need to find a way to break the gridlock and you need to see that whether we trust them or not, we need our employers to actually deal with us.
finally, someone who lives in reality. thank you, Sagmember. No, the AMPTP is not made up of a bunch of nice folks who just want the whole world to be happy. They are lawyers who are paid to make a deal. They are not elected, not really political. If you look at the situation in any sort of a personal, resentful way you are going to get eaten like SAG has already gotten eaten. it’s about dealmaking. that’s ALL. you may hate the AMPTP but at some point you have to just settle in and make a deal.
Sagmember, you wrote: The amptp don’t need to be ‘forgiven’ or ‘outed’, this is sadly mainly a BUSINESS! Most people are hurting and twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to have a contract.
We need to find a way to break the gridlock and you need to see that whether we trust them or not, we need our employers to actually deal with us.
While I agree with and echo your sentiment, most people aren’t doing much differently than they would be if there was a new contract. TV is in full production; films are being signed left and right for performance guarantees and are heading into pre-production. Yes, there is a slight downturn in overall production, but not having a new contract isn’t really a factor in that as of now. With a mere 3.5% pay increase offered, we’re not losing much by holding out anyway.
They (the AMPTP) doesn’t have to be forgiven, but all of SAG and the industry should know how they are operating before taking sides and making assumptions based on spin and misinformation. Lots of people in the industry are sounding sympathetic to the AMPTP without knowing fully what the problem(s) are and who is/are creating those problems. By SAG making this information public, the AMPTP can’t hide behind their B.S. any longer. To break the gridlock, everybody needs to understand why the gridlock exists. And when SAG members finally stand together with that information, we will again show our strength – in solidarity.
The AMPTP has chosen to be SAG’s adversaries in these negotiations. Our “employers” have essentially told us to f**k off. They could be fair and continue to agree on how the business works – how it’s worked for decades. But in new media (in particular), they see an opportunity to revel in their greed and further line their pockets on the backs of the people who actually do the work. If we, SAG, accept the position of hoping for some table scraps and crumbs to fall on the floor for us, then that’s all we’ll receive – at best.
No, we’ll sit at the table, thankyouverymuch, and continue to contribute and earn our fair share. AMPTP knows they need us as much as we need them, even though they’re acting and sounding like they can do it without professional actors (and writers, and technicians…).
Yes, this is business (for the AMPTP, anyway). And in contract negotiations, it’s called ‘brinkmanship’ – or rather bluffing. For SAG members, it’s our livelihood, not a business. AFTRA folded at the table with their own agenda. If it takes a strike for SAG to call their bluff, so be it. I won’t accept crumbs.
No one should have to accept crumbs. SAG’s negotiating committee exists so its members don’t have to accept crumbs — it’s their job. And they’re doing their job. For YOU. And people are shitting on them. How many Ralph Morgan Award winners are on U4S’s slate? I actually don’t know the answer to that, so if there are any, I’d love to know who they are.
But with MF, you’ve got people who have dedicated years and years of their lives in service to the Guild, and their knowledge of relationship and contract history spans decades and isn’t something to be taken lightly or to be discarded without very serious consideration.
It’s human nature to want to shoot the messenger, and MF has had to deliver some very frustrating messages. But everyone needs to keep in mind that the AMPTP has not called an impasse. That in and of itself is very telling.
Here’s a thought:
If the AMPTP would like to reword SAG’s poll to its membership and make it one-sided in favor of getting the answer the AMPTP wants to hear, then they can trade that ability for at least one real concession to SAG, like restarting the AMPTP SAG talks in good faith by having at least one mogul in the room for the talks.
How about that proposal?
In any negotiation, it’s about who has leverage. Right now, SAG has no leverage to affect the AMPTP.
When MF went after AFTRA and LOST on the ratification, the AMPTP was empowered and SAG’s clout was shot. It was a gamble, and the MF lost. But SAG lost more.
What is the plan to “continue negotiating”. I don’t see one and I would love to hear it. This “vote” is toothless. If MF wanted to make a stand, this would be a strike authorization, not a PR piece. WHY isn’t it a strike authorization???
Does anyone think with the fractured guild we have right now that there could possibly be a 75% strike authorization? I guarantee the AMPTP doesn’t. And I guarantee MF doesn’t either, thus the toothless PR “vote” that coincides with the election ballots. So we are in a stalemate and I see no signs that MF has any plan to make any gains.
If SAG was UNITED and AFTRA was sitting at the tables with us, we would actually HAVE leverage.
UNITED we can make gains. DIVIDED and we will all continue to lose.
Vote MF if you want to stay divided.
Vote U4S if you want to UNITE and stop the civil war that is ripping us apart.
I guarantee the AMPTP wants us to stay fragmented and fighting each other. That way they keep all the leverage. They aren’t afraid of MF.
Two things, and then a third.
The AMPTP says, “…the more SAG members will lose out on the new media rights and residuals, salary, pension and other increases in the Producer’s $250 million final offer.”
$250 million where, how, when? I get that $250 million is a lot of money in and of itself. But does the AMPTP think we’re so stupid that the amount throws us off balance so much so we think we just won the lottery? WOO HOO!!
If I spend $1 a week for life at VONS that amounts to about a half a million dollars. But can I really go into VONS this Tuesday an demand a deep discount on my Snickers bar ranting that I’m giving them a deal worth a half a million dollars? C’mon. Talk real numbers and real time frame. One arbitrary number–all be it a big number– doesn’t impress me.
I am obviously impressed by a fist full of peanuts, though.
Two is, the AMPTP says, “The 12 pages of material accompanying the postcard are just as one-sided and are filled with misrepresentations. For example, SAG’s negotiators continue to insist that talks are ongoing.”
If the AMPTP has SO MUCH that SAG is misleading us about, why is the one example they can come up with ridiculous. A kind of, “My old boyfriend Levi says we’re still talking, but we’re not even talking at all hardly.”
It looks like SAG is doing it’s best to drive a fair bargain, tell it’s members what’s going on, and the AMPTP relies only on “everybody is doing it…” and “$250 million is a lot of money” to encourage us to take their crumbs.
They think the membership is stupid and I think SAG is saying, “we’re not all that stupid folks.” And we’re not.
And then the three: “Been There,” I have to disagree that joining with AFTRA and accepting that crappy deal they accepted is the definition of leverage. Leverage is gained by holding out for a good deal, not collecting as many people as you can from two UNIONS then bowing down and saying thanks for a crappy deal.
HOLD STRONG SAG! We get it– The membership is with you. And while AMPTP proves they think we are stupid with these press releases and responses, in the end let’s show them we insist on a smart deal.
to been there,
here’s another take on the leverage thing:
when AFTRA broke it’s promise, the promise that was made in the presence of John Sweeney of the AFL-CIO, and decided to negotiate separately from SAG, the AMPTP was empowered.
when AFTRA threw itself on top of the deal that even U4S says is not good enough, the AMPTP was empowered.
when U4S felt snubbed and decided to run as a slate opposed to MF
because the board chose not to implement the ill-conceived
Affected Member Voting Initiative, the guild was weakened
and the AMPTP was empowered.
when AFTRA decided to undercut SAG by writing cable contracts with residual giveaways, the AMPTP was empowered.
the feeling i get on the street is that the guild isn’t as equally divided on this as you might hope, Been There, and that many actors in this town, Los Angeles, are disgusted with AFTRA’s behaviour.
they agree with MF that this deal that you’re so hot to have us accept is substandard and harmful.
why are you so eager for the negotiating committee to throw in the towel? maybe because if we do get a better deal it might show up that
AFTRA negotiating team?
why wouldn’t you want us all to get a better deal?
the meager increases the AMPTP keeps reminding us that we’re missing out on are peanuts compared to the losses we will
suffer if the new media template is accepted.
MF wants all actors in one union.
who says that AFTRA would even want to merge now?
and if they do, why?
i’ve asked this before of you and you haven’t answered.
the AMPTP might not be afraid of MF,
but they’re damn sure not afraid of U4S.
what the AMPTP would be afraid of is a SAG membership that would
come together, despite political differences, and vote yes to a strike authorization.
Harry isn’t the point one guild representing all performers. There are ways around the pension thing . It’s called a buyout for aftra and make them start over in a sag pension. As for the representation of Aftra on your board, don’t you have elections every three years. Vote them out,nothing is forever. There is logical choices to be made here. This contract may be gone but cleanup the house and yourself cleaner and stronger. Get a strike vote before you go into negations. They will know you mean business. You can’t use what happened to the writers, because as urban legend has it they had a deal at the eleventh hour and jumped the gun in New York. A fat show runner said the strike would only last two weeks. Well two weeks and eighty six days. I guess he’s not Karnac
harry98,
I have answered it before. Because AFTRA (and many others) know that Actors competing with Actors doesn’t work. As long as AFTRA and SAG are in a civil war, nobody wins. But that doesn’t mean AFTRA has to take whatever SAG does to them, and they didn’t.
As reported here, MF would not assure AFTRA they would not break with Phase 1 if they went to the table together for this contract. MF also tried to reduce input that AFTRA had on the negotiating committee (in violation of Phase 1), significantly affecting their ability to be a viable part of the negotiations.
I’m not saying both sides are without blame, but to put the entire blame for the cancellation of Phase 1 on AFTRA is absolutely inaccurate and a complete distortion of the events.
You can be disgusted with their behavior, but then that makes my point even more valid. As long as actors fight actors, we all lose. Everything you said supports that statement. We must STOP fighting.
And I have repeatedly asked how SAG expects to WIN the civil war? Do you really think that AFTRA will just hand over 75% of it’s members without a fight? I know they won’t because it would ruin their union. They’ve represented actors for over 70 years.
So how exactly is MF going to put all Actors under SAG? How will they win this civil war they started? I’ve asked and asked and asked that question to no avail. I keep hearing the crickets.
I also asked why the MF didn’t make this “vote” a strike authorization. They clearly state it is NOT one. Why are they bothering then? The results are meaningless. What is the point? The AMPTP won’t care about rigged results.
U4S is just tired of the factionalization and civil war with AFTRA and KNOW that if actors continue to fight actors, the only one who wins is the AMPTP.
Clearly the more MF fights with AFTRA, the more divided we become and the happier the AMPTP is going to be. Divide and conquer works very well for them.
The AMPTP is afraid of U4S because if actors DO unite, they will really have to negotiate and not dictate terms like they are now. It’s the whole “United we stand” idiom.
Anonymous,
What I actually said was that IF we were UNITED with AFTRA, we wouldn’t BE in this position. I believe that if we had been UNITED, we would have much more leverage and the AMPTP would have to negotiate rather than dictate.
As long as we are divided, they can pit Actor against Actor and come out on top EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Leverage is only gained by uniting.
The AMPTP can also unilaterally impose the contract and force SAG to act. They’re not doing that for a couple of reasons. One is that they’re hoping Unite for Strength wins. The other is that they know SAG members would correctly see such an imposition as bullying, and it would get our dander up. We’d unify, and respond with a labor action.
Our best response is to let our leadership know we want them to continue negotiations. Let Doug Allen do his thing. He’s demonstrating the patience of a Zen Master. They have a 2010 summer tentpole schedule to worry about while over 600 independent movies (AKA not mogul product) are full-steam ahead in production. Time is actually on our side.
According to Forbes $80 million is basically $10 million more than 3 Will Smiths circa 2007. Or 5 Cameron Diazs.
Or according to ABC News it’s 2.5 times the cost of this years two political party conventions ($100 million in corporate sponsorships for both the DNC and RNC).
I don’t know about you but $250 million isn’t that much more especially if it gets divided between 122,000 people ($2049.18 per person). Assuming the contract runs 3 years and there’s 365 days in a year it works out to $1.87 per person per day.
By the way I found this chart reproduced in this recent article in CFO.com patting the moguls on the back for their ‘negotiating’ tactics.
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/11954860/c_11991481?f=home_magazine
Top 10 Highest-Paid Actors (2007 earnings)
Will Smith, $80 million
Johnny Depp, $72 m
Eddie Murphy, $55 m
Mike Myers, $55 m
Cameron Diaz, $50 m
Leonardo DiCaprio, $45 m
Bruce Willis, $41 m
Ben Stiller, $40 m
Nicolas Cage, $38 m
Keira Knightley, $32 m
Source: Forbes
Not that I expected any different from a magazine whose audience is chief financial officers but why aren’t the moguls salaries published for comparison? How many Will Smiths does it take to equal Rupert Murdoch’s 2007 compensation package anyway?
mheister,
You said “The AMPTP can also unilaterally impose the contract and force SAG to act. They’re not doing that for a couple of reasons.”
I don’t believe they can. An agreement MUST be ratified by the union members to be effective. If it’s not, there is no new contract. Many unions have worked for years in a limbo. The existing contract will continue until we either strike or approve a new one.
What IS MF’s strategy? HOW are they going to continue to “negotiate”? HOW will they bring the AMPTP back to the table? Their 12 page pr poll didn’t say a word about that. And why ISN’T is a strike authorization?
If U4S is elected, that sends the message that Hollywood now wants actors to UNITE. And THAT would be bad for the AMPTP. As long as we are divided and the MF continues their “negotiating” and toothless “polls” the AMPTP has nothing to worry about.
Does anyone here truly think that fighting amoungst oursevles HELPS our cause? How many new pilots are AFTRA now? A LOT. And there will be more and more as the one sided “negotiations” drag on. And then actors wages will be split between BOTH unions and even FEWER will qualify for health and pension benefits they need. This is a WASTE and has to STOP.
Vote MF if you want this war to continue and our clout to be continually diminished.
Vote U4S if you want the war to STOP and for actors to TAKE BACK their strength.
been there:
if AFTRA wants to merge after all that they’ve done to undercut SAG and sell out actors in the process, it is because they need money to stay alive, just like always.
it’s not because they give a shit about actors.
actors are just convenient little ATMs that help AFTRA pay her bills.
what’s going to happen in the next three years, is that actors are going to take a hit in the wallet because of AFTRA’s substandard deals in cable and AFTRA’s ratification of this damaging new media deal.
yes, there are AFTRA deals being made right now and actors are going to take the jobs because they need to. i get it. but they’ll be pissed off
that they’re being underpaid and ripped off. and who will they blame?
the folks who are still fighting to get them a proper deal?
or the folks who’ve sold them out time and again?
merger, of the type you propose, is not the only way out of this.
if enough actors get angry at the way AFTRA has frittered away their livelihoods, they might just decide to not let AFTRA represent them anymore.
and of course some actors will take the AFTRA jobs. we can’t tell an actor not to take a job anymore than we tell a member they can’t go
fi-core if they need to. that’s their choice.
but if a vote is put to actors to choose between SAG and AFTRA as their actor’s union and if an amnesty is offered to AFTRA actors who are not dual card holders to join, (for a limited time), you will see people deserting AFTRA like rats from a sinking ship.
even if U4S sweeps the election they won’t gain control of the hollywood board. national, yes. but not having control of hollywood
will be an impediment to anything they might try and implement.
a merger of the type you want will take all three years of this cycle.
AFTRA will have to become completely transparent, which, historically , is not her strong suit. three years is a long time to work on a show and stew about the fact that you’re not getting any residuals.
aftra has slit her own throat.
been there:
you say if U4S wins it will be a signal that hollywood wants actors to unite and that would bad for the AMPTP.
i feel you couldn’t be more wrong.
if U4S wins, the AMPTP will know that they will now be dealing with
the group that wants to merge with AFTRA, the union that caves and takes the weak deal every time.
the AMPTP will laugh until they wet themselves
they will know that they are no longer dealing with adults who expect to be properly compensated for services rendered.
but rather with compliant, dutiful children expectantly awaiting their allowance and praying that daddy is in a generous mood.
been there
if you were certain that the results of this poll were meaningless
you wouldn’t bother to remark about it.
the poll is a way to take the temperature of the membership, to see how they feel about this impasse.
the results won’t be rigged no matter how much you and everyone over at sagwatch will claim they will be.
if a majority says take the deal, then we’ll know that people
feel as you do and want to fold up the tent.
if a majority says the deal is no good, then leadership will be validated
and will continue on our behalf.
the contract is the issue at hand and i can say it’s AFTRA’s fault
and you can say it’s MF’s fault,
but the fact is that MF is still fighting for something better
and AFTRA just took what was placed before her.
SAG has three separate (but related) problems on it’s shoulders right now. In order of importance:
1) get a fair contract with AMPTP for it’s members,
2) board elections, and
3) deal with AFTRA
The AFTRA issue is on the way, way back burner. It is what it is for now, as AFTRA has made it’s play and will have to deal with the ramifications of those decisions. SAG ain’t worried about AFTRA right now.
“been there” keeps spouting off about what a vote for either slate means: “Vote MF if you want this war to continue and our clout to be continually diminished. Vote U4S if you want the war to STOP and for actors to TAKE BACK their strength.” It sounds like “been there” is running for the U4S board theirself. Sounds like what I heard from the recent Republican convention – loaded statements, a bunch of misstated falsehoods and opinions about the opposition; saying something (whether true or false) just because you can. It’s cheap politicking.
Further, “been there”, you say you’ve asked over and over about a plan to merge SAG and AFTRA actors but all you hear are crickets? That means that you’re not hearing anything from U4S either, pal. U4S has no plan for what they say they want to do. Nada. These 31 U4S people don’t have a monopoly on frustration with the current circumstances. But you say that “U4S is just tired of the factionalization (sic) and civil war with AFTRA and KNOW that if actors continue to fight actors, the only one who wins is the AMPTP.” So what do they do? They start a civil war within their own union!? Your “slate” needs a better mouthpiece.
And finally, the contract poll. Yeah, SAG negotiators need to know where the membership stands on the current offer, and their (our) readiness to head into a “labor action”. (Thanks, Mheister – I love that euphemism.) The poll makes it clear what they’re doing and why. It will help them decide what step to take next – and isn’t that what we all want – steps taken?
It’s on, baby!
Been There -
Actually, yes, the AMPTP could impose their last-best-final-seriously-we’re-not-kidding-even-if-we-won’t-declare-an-impasse contract and force SAG to respond. But they haven’t. Funny that.
The flaw in your argument in favor of Unite for Strength vis a vis the current negotiations is that AFTRA already has their piss-poor deal with its no-strike clause, for the next three long years. AFTRA could change its stripes and come 100% to SAG’s defense tomorrow and it would make absolutely ZERO difference to the AMPTP in its current theatrical contract negotiations with SAG, because AFTRA’s already given it away. Until AFTRA’s Schedule A is up for renewal in 2011, they have nothing of relevance to say on the subject.
Once you’ve allowed yourself to be screwed, you can’t unscrew yourself. Why do you think President Rosenberg is so steadfast in refusing to take the AMPTP’s frakked deal?
believable and knowledgeable