The venerable actor has asked me to post this:
Dear Colleagues,
A small minority of actors are internationally known, iconic figures, whom audiences flock to see in films and on television. Producers know these actors as the best means to insure return on their investments and reward them appropriately for that security. In addition to talent, these actors have had that extra measure of good fortune, and have been propelled to the very top of our profession. It is to these actors that this letter is addressed, because your good fortune may have insulated you from issues currently afflicting the majority of actors who support you as the ‘friends’, ‘lovers’, ‘cops’, ‘lawyers’, ‘judges’, ‘villains’, and ‘side-kicks in films, and who are also hard-working, talented and skilled professionals.
Since 1990 the earnings of the top leading actors have increased exponentially while the salaries of nearly all other actors have been systematically driven down. In many cases, the earnings of established character actors have been rolled back by 60-70 percent. This occurs, in large part, because the working professional (as opposed to the star) is at a disadvantage when negotiating in the new corporatized production environment. We do not possess a unique, marketable (and often media exploited) brand, and consequently lack the power to make or break the existence or profitability of a film. Consequently, respected, veteran actors with numerous credits and hard-earned “quotes” now routinely receive "take-it-or-leave it" offers, often at “scale”---a beginners wage.
Our actor’s Guild has two weapons to employ in protecting its members: the threat or fact of strike, and the power of its “star” members. The power to strike is the union's ultimate weapon, but it is a crude and draconian one and wounds everyone in our industry. Consequently, like nuclear weapons, it is rarely used. The industry is currently facing its second strike this year because the majority of its membership is suffering and feel they have no other recourse. If you possess only one weapon, it’s the one you use. Given the radical depression in earnings there’s little wonder that a strike is on the table again.
There is a simple way leading actors might bring a second, more flexible and targeted weapon into the fray on behalf of your colleagues which incidentally, would provide the ancillary benefit of insuring that you consistently play opposite actors of the highest caliber. If you were to include language in your contracts specifying that, in your films, the "quotes" of your peers must be recognized as a negotiating floor for their compensation, if you publicized that fact, and, if you kicked back a modest amount, say on salaries over six million dollars a film to make that money available, each and every actor negotiating to play opposite you would be empowered to demand the fair compensation that he or she has won for their work.
Why should you be asked to kick back, you might well ask? (and even wonder at the nerve of the suggestion? ) There are a few reasons that make sense to me. 1) You are the engines of the industry, and consequently immune to pressure and intimidation. 2) You are the wealthiest sub-community of the actors, and, possessing the awareness and sensibilities of artists, understand the mutuality of our work in a way that producers never will. 3) Such a gesture would buttress your peers who cannot win such gains for themselves except by sabotaging the entire industry with a strike, which prevents much work in which you have points from getting made.
Also, let’s relate to the non-celluloid world for a moment. Once an actor reaches the six or ten million dollar mark for several months work, they are financially secure for life unless they are morons or have extremely bad habits. By the time they’re earning 15-20 million, some measurable percentage of those earnings is meaningless. A major star on a film we were doing together, once told me, (We were discussing this issue) “Hey there’s no difference between 17 and 18 million to me! My agent tells me so-and-so gets it and so should I.”
That “no difference money” is the difference between earning a living or not for most of the rest of us. A modest return to insure the health of the entire community (the principle behind income taxes) hardly seems excessive. While this would not solve all the problems of our community, it would certainly remove much of the desperation and rancor from negotiations and make earning a living once again possible for far more of the membership. It cannot be legislated by law, only by custom, but as a custom it would lend a definite grace to our industry, and perhaps set a model that might inspire others. (Why do the words “Corporate executives” leap to mind?)
You cannot grow roses without mulch. While stars represent the beautiful blooms of the industry, the soil of the industry, the medium of growth supplied by all those who surround you, is being starved for nourishment. Eventually, this lack of payback to the medium supporting all the growth will kill, if not the plant itself, at least its quality and vitality. Our industry is not secure while the majority of its players are not. To change the situation requires consciousness, solidarity, and power. We have the consciousness and solidarity. We appeal to you for help with the power.
Sincerely,
Peter Coyote
A small minority of actors are internationally known, iconic figures, whom audiences flock to see in films and on television. Producers know these actors as the best means to insure return on their investments and reward them appropriately for that security. In addition to talent, these actors have had that extra measure of good fortune, and have been propelled to the very top of our profession. It is to these actors that this letter is addressed, because your good fortune may have insulated you from issues currently afflicting the majority of actors who support you as the ‘friends’, ‘lovers’, ‘cops’, ‘lawyers’, ‘judges’, ‘villains’, and ‘side-kicks in films, and who are also hard-working, talented and skilled professionals.


Yay Peter Coyote! It’s about time someone made this suggestion!
Jamie Rose
Brillant, and beautifully put in a concise way I hope anyone could understand.
Thank you Thank you Thank you Peter!!!!
This idea came up a few years ago, when actors started being told scale or lose it for giant 80 million dollar films, even though they had a lifetime of working towards quotes that would enable them to be live that year.
When this starting to happen and this idea was floated by a few and I used to mention it to people, it was pointed out to me that there are two actors who did this.
I know there must be more and also every actor no matter how big a star, may not be able to do this on every project or film, if it’s a labor of love for instance or one they are deferring pay to get the film made.
But I feel it’s important to know two actors who were in the position at some project and managed to secure “Quotes” for all the actors who supported them. I suggested we give these two actors a special SAG award years ago.
Let’s create an award for an actor a year who does this.
The first one should be split between the two who did:
RAY LIOTTA
EDWARD JAMES OLMOS
Thanks again Peter and I hope the actors who could make this happen read your letter and “ACT” on it!
Kudos to Peter for having the stones (and the street cred) to go there. It’s a start. Let’s see if anyone steps up.
Interesting and well-written letter. I’m sure it will be attacked for being naive, but it is a noble idea.
Whatever works. Sounds like socialism.
Kudos to Peter for having the stones and the street cred to call out the headliners. It’s a start. let’s see who’s first to step up.
Coyote’s wrong. You can grow roses without mulch.
Peter Coyote = Class Act…though I don’t recall ever seeing him at any picket line I walked (though admittedly, he’s Peter Coyote I’m not, so it’s not likely I could get close enough to actually see him).
Maybe 10% of the film budget should go directly in the P&H fund (which like they do in in many state municipalities allows public employees to use the same P&H system, only salaries are negotiated–this might work for all of us in the industry: an enormous X amount of dollars into one fund could be a pretty good thing) and would be a non-negotiated “fund” for all to draw from… And then individual “retirement” funds could be negotiated alongside the established P&H.
Bravo to Peter. Seriously, how many millions of dollars does one have to go through in their lifetime? The people who are hurt the most are those people who haven’t had their chance, while those who command nine ten and eleven digit salaries are used over and over again and are hopelessly overexposed, not to mention have conveniently forgotten what it was like to wait tables. In this case the fat cat actors are no better than the people they despise the most, the Fat Cat Republicans.
He makes some pretty salient points, but I don’t see many of the big names going for it. It’s only a matter of time before their real worth at the box-office is figured out, and then they’ll be lucky to land a commercial for Bob’s Big Boy. And with many of them being morons with bad habits and private jets to refuel for their day trips to their villas in Tuscany, they’ll probably be actively against it.
Bravo Peter Coyote. I’ve been making this argument since before the writers strike, and, in private conversations with fellow actors, for several years. This is the FIRST time I have read someone of Coyote’s stature say the same thing. Again, make no mistake, the suits are muscling the middle class actor right out of the business, and, one OBVIOUS solution is that stars can, and should, give back, via a method exactly like Peter suggests. The current SAG/AMPTP fight is a further extension of this fight. Not ONLY have “working actors” seen their quotes go away, not only do we get offered (ha!) scale, NOW we’re supposed to shut up and eat this new AMPTP bullshit contract, which further threatens our ability to make a decent living. THE TIME IS NOW – not three years from now. Let’s go get our rights back.
quotes are an artificial, non-market driven system.
what you want is socialism essentially.
FINALLY someone who is talking sense in a well meaning, articulate way
It’s a sad truth that we are entering a new gilded age where the disparity between top earners and bottom earners in the same business is astonishing. It’s the same in all businesses anymore. Peter Coyote is a thoughtful advocate for the middle class actor. Let’s hope that the gilded actors pay heed.
Thank you Peter for your well-reasoned and pragmatic appeal – it was a very courageous and I hope much appreciated and effective message.
It has never occurred to me that we as journeymen actors would receive any kind of political or diplomatic assistance from A-List actors in this issue. What is clearly evident to me is that my TV will be plugged into the Internet in a very short time – any statement to the contrary is pure disinformation. I see over 50 seasons of television shows on DVD proudly displayed in my living room, most of which were not available on DVD when they originally aired.
The only option which appeared available to me was to join the picket line when the time comes – I walked with the writers because they had a just cause. We have a just cause – and not being paid my quote again and again as if I were a piece of crap, while not being precisely a reason to shut down production, does fuel my desire to get a fair deal on residuals both on DVD and New Media.
Thank you again Peter. Everyone pass Peter’s note on.
Thank you, Peter.
While everyone has an opinion, and has a right for that opinion to be heard, it is nonetheless offensive when actors whose “quotes” of 20 million dollars or more (which are always met) are asking membership to sign on to a deal to “keep the town running.” Or is it, Mr. Hanks, to keep your particular production running? No one wants a strike and, as others have said, we must keep a united front. I agree that the united front should expand from negotiations to Mr. Coyote’s suggestion. Especially when the gap between the haves and the working stiff has grown so sadly, and incredibly, disproportionate.
Bravo Peter! Love the support. Now go to SAG.org and sign the Solidarity Statement – we can use your support during these negotiations.
Let’s launch a write-in campaign to make Peter Coyote the next President of SAG.
reading mr. coyote’s wonderful letter it occured to me that what he is asking for is a salary cap not unlike the NFL.
I wonder if Peter would actually put up any of his money at part of this plan. I’m guessing not. It’s pretty easy to suggest a plan, quite another to actually implement it yourself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He can set the bar at 6 million only because that would exempt him from actually having to do anything himself. Talk is useless without acting yourself.
Hooray! We love you Peter and hereby offer you the role of PRESIDENT OF SAG! Please take it. You know how to speak for those who need to be heard. RUN RUN RUN!
Nice to see such energetic responses. Those who call this “Socialism” are wrong. How can a voluntary system respecting interdependence and cooperation be compared to a top-down, centralized government policy that forces the redistribution of income? (Ahyes, Sam, etc.)As for Hmmm’s not seeing me on picket lines, I live 450 miles North of LA, and during the last strike was out of the country. Whatever, fella.
My entire letter was dedicated to starting a dialogue. I’m no expert in how to do this, but if the wealthiest members of the community wanted to, with the fine legal minds that they command, they could! Let better minds than mine design the mechanism, but let’s not listen to smaller hearts dictating that “sharing” and “cooperation” cannot be done.
good on ya pete…..however, the powers that be quickly cut down both liotta and olmos to size, believe me, they ain’t gettin’ paychecks that size no more, the commie bastards, trying to shake things up! Those are both dangerous men! And great actors, not the lactose intolerant thin hipped boys being shoved down our throats these days….
Bravo to you Mr. Coyote for thinking differently on this issue…I am hopeful that other well compensated actors will consider your suggestion seriously.
In the end the best films and TV shows are a product of team efforts and as they say you’re only as strong as your weakest team member. If everyone on the production team doesn’t have to worry about making difficult financial choices, then one more obstacle to making good films and TV shows (and content for new media) has been removed.
Thanks for your decidely egalitarian approach to this problem and let’s hope it gets serious consideration.
The members of Why We Watch
http://community.livejournal.com/whywewatchljcom/
“I wonder if Peter would actually put up any of his money at part of this plan.”
Look at the guy’s resume. You think he has money to spare?
He’s saying the CEO’s should take a cut so the janitors can make a bit more – you’re basically saying that a janitor should take a cut and give it to other janitors.
What a brilliant idea. Major stars insist on a clause in their contract, whereby actors playing opposite them (or in scenes with them) receive a minimum rate (not scale). This rate could be established by the unions. It is insulting that long time established actors be offered scale in larger budget pictures. I nominate that this clause be called the “Coyote Clause” and be part of all agreements. This is a way to “give something back” to your industry. By the way I’m not an actor, and I do wear a producer hat occasionally.
When workers stick together it’s called a union; when corporations stick together it’s called restraint of trade. Thus does the law acknowledege which side has the power. The whole notion of an actor’s quotes is aquiescent to the existence of collusion among those who hire them. Peter Coyote’s thoughtful and realistic notion harkens to the origins of SAG when above-the-title names risked their contracts and their futures to fight for those who had no clout. Many featured players today are not only offered “take it or leave it” deals but are not carried on the schedule, effectively keeping them from working elsewhere even when they are not on call. A film costs what a film costs, and saving a few thousand dollars by screwing the cast won’t put anything on the screen. Bravo Coyote!
I am just going to say I don’t see the incentive for the megastar actor to do this. People like Will Smith and Brad Pitt earn their salaries because they put butts in the seats, the same way that Kobe and Lebron do in the NBA. Besides, all of those actors are also producers.
SAG socialism is not the way. Actors need to think like a business. Why be one thing anymore? It doesn’t pay the bills.
Bravo Peter. And thank you. And Ray Liotta and Edward James Olmos.
Thanks for posting that information about them, I didn’t even know that.
I LOVE the “Coyote Clause”. I have been a member of SAG, rank and file if you will, and I’ve never been lucky enough to even have a quote. It’s scale plus 10% or nothing. Like Rosenberg said: “minimums have become maximums”. And yet, I’ve made my insurance (Plan 1 until this strike year ), and pension for the last 18 years. When I see actors of Mr. Coyote’s stature considering themselves to be middle class actors, I realize just how vast the middle class is. If he’s middle class then I’m poor. So, where’s the future? Drag the respected proven Peter Coyote’s down to my level or give me the opportunity to reach theirs? We can only do that with a re-distribution of wealth. Maybe George Clooney can make good on his desire to do more. I believe him when he says it. But we need to do something NOW, before the Aug 15th deadline imposed by the studios.
Thanks Peter, Ray and Edward James, I am proud to be in the same union as you.
Peggy Lane O’Rourke
Hmm where ARE all the comments that dis-agree? When I see ALL actors paid scale taking their millions out of the net profit then I’ll believe that socialism is alive and well in Hollywoood.
It’s an open market, if you think you’re worth what Peter Coyote is worth then tell your agent to hold out until you meet his quote. Good luck with that.
This is show BUSINESS, the days of getting a barn, hiring the actors and having Uncle Max run the camera are gone. If they ever were more than a romantic fantasy perpetuated by Mickey Rooney & Judy Garland. (was it MGM?)
I call bullshit. If that is how Coyote wishes to run his shows, feel free – I’d rather have one over paid actor that can hold together a story than toss it out to the “gang.” Here’s a suggestion, we tell the producers to put all the money in the pot, count up all the actors, director, btl and post. Then divide by the amount of people. Simplistic? Sure why not, ridiculous? As serious as anything I’ve heard, competition makes for better product whether it is widgets or television projects.
Won’t even touch the neoptism – hey Uncle Max needs to job – hire him I make 20 mil he needs ummmm a bit less but not much more.
Good for him. Except he’s wrong about audiences “flocking” to see certain stars. There’s no celeb people flock to see a movie for anymore – all the more reason for these actors to show some humility.
This is not socialism, morons. It’s smart business for all involved.
Listen to Peter Coyote. The guy tried to save E.T.’s life.
“Socialism-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of an industry, capital & land by community as a whole.”
O.K., so maybe Peter’s idea isn’t socialism. How about Robin Hood? Mind you, this all sounds good. It’s all a matter of convincing the high end.
The idiots (and I mean that word) who think this defines socialism neither understand capitalism nor socialism. Socialism, if a basic seventh grade civics book will inform you, is when an entire society’s needs are paid for by the state and the society’s income is redistributed to make that happen IN ALL ASPECTS. The movement of salaries toward groups of the same union is not socialism. This is a labor movement norm– the negotiation of salaries in a group manner that makes available pools of money the employer designates as salary to subsets of its members (look at the UAW or AFL CIO negotiations). To suggest that what Mr. Coyote is advocating is socialism yet again betrays the idiocy of a person who can post what they like with the click of a button.
And even if this issue was taking place in a SOCIALIST STATE, the government would set the salaries and there would be no competition in the marketplace by actors by salary or companies for profits. None of those things are being suggested.
jen, dividing the pot amongst actors already exists, its called “favored nations”, where all actors get the same amount….look, the pitts and smiths and hanks are really just VERY lucky people….or as the buddhists say, “if you did something really bad in your last life, you get to come back as someone really famous”, and they need to recognize it, and not get all in their heads about how talented they are. Talent is relative. But a righteous heart and the grand gesture, now there is something to behold! But i am telling you, if hanks, pitt et al started doing gestures a la liotta, they’d find themselves cast down from the heavenly firmament!
I think his idea has merit but one underlining problem is that “A” listers have about a 10 year life in the business where they can dictate a high salary. Hey even Tom Cruise got fired. Also if you read the news headlines about various high end actors buying large Frenh Palaces its going to be hard for them to limit their pay.
I do think Peter has a great idea to voluntarily suggest through SAG that the higher priced actors should chip in to make their fellow actors better paid by using their influence while they have it. It couldn’t hurt and maybe all the actors who are making loads of money could reduce their salary if the money were to be given to their fellow thespians and not just sucked back into the corporations.
hey “jen” outside of being an assh***, do you have anything to contribute?
It’s up to you, Stars… you have all the power. It’s up to you to change things.
Bravo, Mr. Coyote!
Very well said!
Just so you guys know, the actors are not the only group that gets the minimums with take it or leave it. It’s across the board with all the unions, if you have what they want they pay. It’s as simple as that.
The idea that actors have special needs and need to be compensated better than everyone else is a joke. We are hired hands if you don’t like the rate do something else.
BTW Peter your idea is great, but how many of your movies were done non union
The missing name in all of this is James Gandolfini, he gave his raise to the crew.
I love the enthusiasm behind this idea. Many valid points both pro and con.
I certainly agree from maybe a big budget film stand point that talented actors who have earned their quotes would be better than the guy off the street in Vancouver. But the idea of hiring “talent” for a project should fall on the shoulders of the producers and not necessarily the actors, unless they also happen to be producers. After all, aren’t we just “trained apes”.
I do applaud Peter for truly innovative thinking and the result could be better talent and better product and more success and more box office but then again, should we really have to take up that responsibility too?
Maybe if you have a little something coming from the back end, but that’s now taken up front because after accounting gets through with it, there is no back end.
The problem I see is that the system is so severely corporate and broken that we’re trying to fix it for them?
Wouldn’t his idea just end up in more package deals for these parts from the big agencies to beef up their percentages, with less opportunity for those with out bigger previously established quotes?
Granted, it’s a nice compromise but what about the real little guys. The terra firma beneath the mulch.
Sure double scale and quotes are nice. If you ever had a decent quote to begin with.
Lets not loose site of the real issues here.
RESIDUALS FOR NEW MEDIA AND DVDs.
I personally received a residual check this year from my very first film in 86. It must have been a shit load of $1.50 movie rentals. It should help with health plan requirements. Also, Peter. How would this affect those of us who have always been able to carve a living out of TV guest spots, and recurring parts etc?
Are the leads in successful series going to be just be so dog gone altruistic as to give their fellow struggling actors a cut of their overpaid weekly asses to make up our old quotes from the 80s and 90s? That would be fantastic, but I think their too busy “Healing the Bay” or something.
Love your idea and perhaps it should be pursued but not in lieu of negotiating a fair deal with the conglomerates.
The A-Bomb may have to be used to address the other real issues facing the little guys.
Not afraid to use my real no-name,
Paul Satterfield
Wow millions are being discussed here…I’d just like to get the extra $25.00 per week computer box rental back that Touchstone took away from the below the line folks who use their computers on the job i.e. 1st AD’s to break down and schedule a show, Art Dept folk who use their computers to design sets etc. That’s what it’s come to. We used to get $50.00 a week last year with a $1000.00 cap, now post WGA Strike (it seems its punishment to us below the liners) the Employers at Touchstone have now knocked it down to $25.00 a week with a $500 cap.
Wow…! First of all, thank you Peter for what you sad so eloquently, so heartfelt and clear. I am saddened by some of the negative comments I read in regards to what you have suggested. Socialism? Ridiculous. How about doing the right thing? How about someone of a very high profile, like Coyote, who is greatly concerned about those who are being adversely affected by the “Take it or leave it!” attitudes of Producers, who uses his voice, willingly to fight for you and you and YOU. Especially, those who worked hard to get a high quote, only to see it dwindling away. I am one of them. I am refreshed and ecstatic to hear your words.
Also, the negative comments about our higher paid members. Why the bitterness? Yes, there are some high profile actors who are ass_____! Like there are poorer actors who walk around with a chip on their shoulders. We are fortunate that there are far more socially conscious, kind and opened minded million dollar actors who could very well be enticed to involve themselves in a program if it is created in a way that helps us all. But, the unkind words that some of my fellow members are spewing could only cause those who could help to turn away.
My fellow SAG members, we are in an age that makes it very clear we are only as strong as our weakest link. “We are our brother’s and sister’s keepers.” Within our ranks we need to look and see how we can help ourselves. What Peter Coyote is presenting is very good and it is possible, if we sit down and think of formulas that could make this viable, so that our higher paid actors could possibly come on board. I have two suggestions.
Base the two ideas below on this idea – When an actor is paid over $10,000.000.00 for a film a percentage of their money is split by some of it going to the SAG Union and the other percentage going into a pool that will be shared between the Actors who are working on the film.
1) I know this is not a new idea, but I want to bring it up again, for us to seriously consider – All SAG members should pay dues up to what their yearly salary is. Remove the cap. There is now a cap on how much of an actor’s salary is used to calculate dues. Presently, after that cap is reached, what you make is not included in your dues figures. I suggest we get rid of that cap and the percentage is taken from an Actor’s salary whether they make $250.00 or $20,000,000.00, etc. Two benefits – 1) This will immediately help our health insurance and retirement plans. 2) The wealthiest actors will take more of an interest in SAG because there money is now involved in a greater way in our union. Also, there is a formula we should add to this so this not only helps the receiver, but the high paid Actor also benefits. Because it is late, I cannot right now find out the exact salary cap that is used in figuring union dues, but for argument sake let’s say that amount is $250,000.00. In raising this to $10,000.000.00, let’s say, made in any given year, the union dues that particular Actor pays above the new cap, is also put into a fund where it earns interest and upon that Actor’s retirement a portion of that interest is given to the actor. So, not only are wealthiest actors sharing more of what they make with the union, but they will also benefit from a partial investment, on their behalf.
2) And, after one’s salary is over $10,000,000.00, taking a percentage of that dues money to be shared with the lower paid actors on the film said actor is working on. Also, allowing the higher paid actor to benefit from interest that is earned from these monies, by the union setting up a fund. A formula needs to be worked out. The other actors working on the film, getting a check with these added funds, 6 months after the film finishes shooting, so that correct accounting can be done.
What Peter has given us is an idea; a willingness by someone who is using his influence to help others. Let’s jump on this idea and see what formulas we can come up with to make this happen. Let us help ourselves. Look within for what we can do to help our problem that could be a win win for us all. I throw my two suggestions in the pot.
Peter, you are courageous to write this letter. I look forward to some comments by our high profile actors.
A devoted member of over 25 years – Comment by “I”
This is something I and many other middle class actors have discussed for years. Thank-you Peter for articulating the concept so well. I don’t blame anyone for trying to get top dollar. I expect people to act in their self interest — but as Peter explained it is in the self-interest of top tier actors to ensure that a small portion of their salaries trickles downhill; they don’t miss out on any big pay-days and the quality of their films will be significantly better. In some ways, the 1 big salary in a film is built on the backs of everyone else getting Scale+10 & Schedule F. Peter’s offering is one piece of a complicated puzzle.
Kurt Fuller
Great piece, Peter. Nikki, thanks for posting it.
For those who are getting their underpants in a knot and complaining that this sounds like some kind of socialism, consider the fact that if you’re casting a movie and you need a 65-year-old Vietnamese woman for a pivotal supporting part, you may very well not find her. Why? Because she wasn’t getting her quote and so got driven out of the market years ago.
It’s for the health of the entire entertainment industry that a diverse breadth of actors remain available to work in your productions, and the way you do that is provide a living wage, not try to dick people out of their quotes. Certainly not when your lead is making Monopoly money.
Very interesting discussion. My question would be how are the high salaries interpreted. If I were a top earner say 20 mil per film I would not take the money as a salary but as a payment for services to my production company. Doing that would not be a salary per se but a co-production deal wouldn’t it. Since most of the high earners have their own production companies since they are listed in the film credits I would assume that the studios pay the actors production company and not the actor directly thus lessening the taxes he or she would have to pay. Also they have numerous in house stuff in the works that are used to show as deductions and probably only take a limited salary per year again to lower the tax burden. SAG would have to break through all of that and convince not only the stars but theri lawyers and agents to agree. Thats a lot of people who won’t like to give up their cut of the money.
As a fan not an actor, it would be refreshing to see a little parity for all who are responsible for the making of a movie. After awhile, reading about the incredibly high salaries of certain “A” listers along with all the perks they receive based on demands in their contracts (Perrier bottled water or whatever label of the month is “in”, etc.); it begins to feel like we, the fans, are just supporting the lifestyles of the rich and famous rather than helping to extend the life of the film industry. I love films. I grew up watching tv reruns of Busby Berkeley, Tarzan and Fred Astaire movies along with the classics; The Wizard of OZ, Casablanca, and the jewel in the crown Gone With The Wind. Does the “star power” assist in the creation of the great movies we all cherish? I don’t really think so. The ensemble movies from the 40’s with the amazing character actors gave the public a much different product than what we normally find today. There are a few movies that have or will become classic ensemble pieces. Crash, The Big Chill, and The Breakfast Club were not held up by any one big name. Movies like When Harry Met Sally will forever be played over and over to a large fan base yet the main characters were not super star actors at the time. My opinion is that often the product suffers when so much energy and money is directed at one main star actor. All of this to say, how about more indie films and great character driven scripts like Juno instead of the megastar focused productions. Would that help to give a little parity to the actors, grips, technicians, etc.? Great ensemble movies have raked in a lot of dough for all to share. I think those of us who are film fans rather than stargazers would be thankful.
I love this guy! He actually has his head on right. Now it’s just up to the Drew Barrymore’s, Tom Cruise’s, Will Ferrell’s and all the other likes pulling in 20-30 million dollars a picture to step back and say…”I could easily do this for one million dollars…and still be making more for four months work than most will make in their entire lives.”
There should be a cap on celebrity salaries like they have in sports!
@Comment by T-rex — July 21, 2008 @ 6:58 pm
pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.
This idea is absurd for a number of reasons.
A) there is nothing stopping any of the megastars from doing this now so implementing some sort of mandatory volunteer system that allowed for it would see little to no change in it.
B)the concept that actors working for 900 years are still working for scale is utterly preposterous. It simply isn’t the case unless you have the shittiest agent ever or you are only working on ultra-low budget films.
If I didn’t think I’d be fired and made pariah by the entire industry, I’d post the quote sheets of all the actors we represent and they are a regular ‘who’s that?’ list of Hollywood ’stars’ who have been working less than 10 years in Hollywood and are already making WELL above scale on every non-ultra low budget film/TV show they work on. (including one who recently worked with Mr. Coyote)
Making shit up does nothing to help actors causes. If you are still making scale after 10 years, you either suck and are a cheap glorified extra, fill in for ‘corpse #5′ on Bones and/or you have a shitty agent/manager and you need to get a new one. Because anyone who claims to be a good working actor of over 10 years and is still making scale on everything is an out and out LIAR otherwise.
To everyone who’s getting riled on this blog and spouting off that A-list are over paid, etc etc – that may be so. But to say that the public are sick of them is not true. Look at tabloid sales. Look at the box office of shows starring with actors at their finest. You don’t even need to look off this blog to see tens of stories about one actor in particular- Heath Ledger. An a-list talent who just lit up the screen and broke 10 box office records for a heart-breaking, mind-numbingly, bone shattering dazzling performance. That’s what he was paid for.
Could they have said, “Fuck it, lets get in the grip as the joker – they kinda look alike, so what the hey”. No. They got him, because not even 50 grips have the talent in his little finger.
Should the system be fairer? Sure. But the idea of a “coyote clause” i.e forced distribution of a percentage of the highest salaried actor’s income to other actors on a set for no reason other than good will?
It’s not realistic nor fair.
Before you sacrifice me to the lions, I agree, there are scenarios where this could be advantageous. Say, if you are a lead in a film that you truly believe in and you can see tangible benefits by hiring actors for various parts that you have personal faith and conviction in their craft, then it’s possible that it would be advantageous to you to dig into your own pocket to meet their quotes. But some ill conceived feel-goodery of sharing a “piece of the pie” with every one isn’t quite fair.
What if you though the other actors in the production were crap? Here. I said it. Not every single struggling actor is talented or even moderately skilled at their craft. Obviously, there are many exceptions to this, and just because someone’s on a lower salary than Brad Pitt doesn’t make him a worse actor. Agreed. But still, when did the business become a charity?
On the topic of charity, many A list actors donate significant portions (albeit mainly tax deductible portions) of their income to actual charities. So it makes little sense for them to donate it to people who are other working professionals when they could feeding famine/aids struck orphans.
And imagine this. After years of struggling, working your way through public theater, busting your guts working three dead end jobs and constant auditions, you finally get the lead role in an indie production. But you’ve been in acting so long that you have a family, mouths to feed, mortgage, car payments, school fees, collge debt etc and then some guy tells you, without your consent, that because you are the highest earning guy on the film, you have to give back some of your salary. You have nothing against the other guys, it’s just that you have responsibilities too. How is that just? How is that fair?
How would you feel about that?
And also, the suggestion of taking money from people and then reinvesting a portion of it is just stupid.
Plain stupid. If they wanted to invest their money in something, they’d be better off investing it their own way, under their own expensive (and worth every penny) financial advice.
B.T.W to the chick who used the example of the 65 y.o vietnamese woman (basically ripped off the theory that John August expounded in his blog), that was more aimed why SAG should press for higher minimums/ retain residuals VS AMPTP rather than an example to be used in this debate. Sure, her quote should be met. But by the producer, not other actors.
I mean, the system some people are suggesting is like a tithing system- it’s antiquated and ridiculous. It seems like many of you (but not all) are out of work actors, who are just seeing greedy little dollar signs pop up in front of your eyes.
Also, the idea of a salary cap is ludicrous- it should have been thought of earlier by the moguls – it makes them more money. Just because they’re paying the big guys less doesn’t mean they are paying the little guy more. In theory, there would be more money around to pay the bit players extra. But, in reality, it would just be decreased cost of production for the studio.
And besides, all the SAG actors should be concentrating their energy and resolve on more realistic, achievable goals (even if only slightly more so) i.e getting more money from the AMPTP, rather than other actors. This isn’t even what we should be debating – it’s off topic entirely.
People need to remember it’s a business not a charity.
And it’s a fickle one at that.
Favored nations doesn’t always apply to money – it may but doesn’t need to, it seems that the idea of sharing the pot of money is popular. Why shouldn’t it be? Then we have the residuals and ancillary markets, all are making the same money. Oh wait, they aren’t? Everything is negotiable once the minimum is met per any B.A. I see crew and post being pissy about this – or their guilds/unions – WGA and DGA would have to agree based on the semi-proven theory that if one gets it in their B.A. they all do.
If being an ass-hole is expressing an opinon based on 20 years experience within the production financial and physical production realm that (standing-up) “Hi, my name is ass-hole, I’m here to hand you a reality check.”
This sounds like an experiment for low-budget/indie market.
I will give one point without argument, it HAS started a discussion and for the most part without name calling (cough) and/or personal attack. That in itself is amazing.
Buddhists also believe that nothing is forever, all is in a state of transit and changing. If anyone, actor, director, teamster want to share their money in one pot and divide it up between all involved then please have at it, let us know how it goes and how long it took before someone screamed they weren’t getting enough.
Peter is a brilliant actor, and together with all the other hard working craftsmen (and women) in film and television, deserves to be able to earn a respectable living. What he’s talking about is not socialism (why does that word get thrown around so much when people feel threatened?) but “fairness,” a concept that is getting short shrift these days. Yes, life is not fair, but that doesn’t mean that anything involving a contract has to be a Machiavellian enterprise. As a fledgling writer/producer/director, I say, let’s remember that anything involving acting is a collaborative process, and we should honor the talent, experience and hard work of everyone involved.
For those of you who call this Socialism, you are mistaken. It would be Socialism if it were dictated by law or policy (Peter points out that this is not possible or feasible). What he is asking for is a sense of decency and camaraderie among his peers. What is currently taking place in Hollywood and most professional fields (not to mention the on the national and world stage) is not Capitalism but just plain GREED. I, for one, am tired of going to see sub-par movies that I know earned and 8-9 figure salary for the star who ended up giving a sub-par performance because they have no love for anything other than the paycheck that they receive. If I made a list of my 20 favorite actors I doubt many would be big names and big box office draws. It’s time to pay respect to the little guys that support the big guys’ paychecks.
Thank You. Thank You. Thank You. Your eloquence astounds me and inspires me. You remind the world about the reality of the situation at hand and I am grateful to you for it.
Nice read, and for those crying socialism, maybe it’s time to stop trying to find a label and see the points made for what they really are. People working as hard, if not harder, than a lot of these “stars” are being brushed away because their name likely isn’t what’s going to be plastered on posters or dropped in TV spots.
Obviously, stars deserve to make more because they’re the backbone of a film or show, but there needs to be decency amongst how they protect their less-fortunate coworkers. The stars have the power to change it, too, if they just decide to take the necessary steps Peter is urging them to take.
Not to mention, let’s not kid ourselves, when you’re a “star,” you’re generating income plenty of other ways as well (appearances, endorsements and so on). Most of your coworkers are not fortunate enough to reap the additional benefits of having a popular name or face.
“A man is rich in proportion to the things he can afford to let alone.” Unfortunately, almost none of us (actors or not) could ever adhere to Thoreau’s true point, but if some of you making <$10 million could apply that just somewhat to your negotiations, EVERYONE would benefit.
Heck, maybe even the people paying $14 a ticket to see you in a popcorn flick (windfall goes ALL the way down) would benefit!
jen
you’re not an actor, right? so, you essentially know absolutely nothing regarding what you’re talking about. someone who looks at and/or draws up budgets, is involved in physical production, etc., as you seem to be, doesn’t viscerally understand the widening gap between haves and have nots in acting. peter is the first “name” who has pointed this out and proposed a solution that keeps the suits out of the equation. actors have the ability to render these inequities a moot point, and clooney has actually suggested something similar. not exactly a landslide yet, but a start. I know I’ve been pointing out this obvious conundrum for years, and I have never heard even actors say “good idea” because actors have become so cowed by the increasing roll backs of producers that it has led to the current “we better not, they’ll get mad at us” climate. however, I sense a change. strength, as always, is in numbers, and if 120,000 (sag) say with a relatively singular voice “treat us with respect, stop screwing us on money while you have your whole head up the stars ass (who delivers a hit 1 out of… care to guess?) and lets get back to PAYING people. we’re not talking free money, we’re talking money earned, through training, unemployment “paying your dues” then getting to a place where you can at least breathe, (I assume you can breathe, jen, o, wise one in your job. we don’t have that luxury, o, 20 year gal) in your profession, instead of facing declining wages, and paying 10% to somebody who calls up an actor of peter coyote’s stature and says “yeah, it’s a go! 20 million for tom and scale plus 10 for you!” we need fucking agents for that? I always used to wonder where “quotes” came from and why they were so important, then i got a quote myself and i realized “oh, right, it’s so, when i get that rare job (and believe me, this applies to peter too) I get PAID, and the wolf backs away from the door a little bit. not much, but a little. you can breathe, for a little while at least. but, at a certain indeterminate point, 10 (?) years ago, it became “apparently we don’t do business this way anymore, now it’s lick the stars balls, and everybody else? go fuck yourselves!” is it any wonder actors are so fucking pissed off? is it any wonder the rage is building, and, by my guess, in about 2 more weeks, sag will be ready, willing and perhaps even eager to strike?
An astute and eloquently presented suggestion. I had talked with actor friends about this some years ago, when the idea occurred to me, too.
This idea is not naive and it would help enormously to save rank and file actors from the slow financial death being visited on them. Thank you, Peter. And thank you, Ray Liotta and Edward James Olmos for being pioneers and humanitarians in the vanguard.
Joe Howard
Peter Coyote is brilliant. Just to step forward and make this statement. I don´t think he´s naive or preposterous. I think he´s progressive.
Stop! Yer breaking my heart!
(at least you jamokes have a union)
Mr. Coyote, you just made yourself one of my all-time favorite actors (not that you weren’t already, but this action of yours just sealed the deal). As a dedicated amateur/semi-pro/non-union actor, I couldn’t agree with you more. I hope the name brands listen to you.
Sounds like Mr. Coyote’s one of the few in this dustup with his head screwed on straight. The problem with strike negotiations is both sides tend to demand more, more, more without much consideration if it’s even doable or if it will destroy everyone in the long run. In this case, the problem is if the normal actors get paid more and the headliners still demand their 18 million, the budget goes up, distribution costs go up, it filters down to consumers and while people still go to the movies obviously, that may start changing as technology brings more forms of entertainment and less emphasis on the value of actors (CGI party, anyone?). But if the headliners took less, and the rank and file SAG members got more, costs dont go up which helps to ensure that everyone doesn’t find themselves out on the street when some outside force shows up and builds a better mousetrap. Seems like everyone would win.
Simply put, the “Roses” are not responsible for the mulch, it’s the gardner. Let’s ask, “who’s the gardner?” Corporations. To affect such an entity you must impact the source of their power. Actors must strike, and strike hard, and not give in. Actors, writers, directors and all the workers in the industry must band together and strike together. It is time for the big unions in the industry to unite, and strike as one. This is the means to the end. Hit the corporate bottom line until they capitulate — perhaps a long a brutal conflict, where sacrifice and suffering is required. End story.
Let’s not forget, Nicholas Cage was paid $20m *not* to do Superman. Other marque actors have been paid millions to not do a film. I think the exorbitant salaries that some actors make for doing little to no work should be taken into consideration.
Nice try pete,
But…. asking people in the world’s largest money machine (US) to give up part of their paycheck… dunno… somehow that sounds like a utopia… like against the capitalistic-psyche…?
I hope that I’m a “small heart” though…
Share on salaries over 6m. How about giving half on any salary over $100,000 to the actors Coyote mentions; leaving the actor still making more in a year than a teacher makes. If you really want to make a difference, make one.
to Roses and Stones. You said “Hit the corporate bottom line until they capitulate”. Wow. You obviously don’t make a living in this business or you wouldn’t be so naive. It’s too late to “stick together”. Maybe in three years. And suggesting “a long brutal conflict, where sacrifice and suffering is required”? Just shut the fuck up with that nonsense.
Good idea Peter, and one I wholeheartedly support… but to go even further, using your analogy of income taxes… there should be NO CAP on percentage dues (as Clooney suggested in his recent letter). Imagine the health of our pension/health fund if those percentages kept coming in on those $20 million paychecks.
So because I chose to not participate in acting, because I don’t suffer for my craft (as some actors have been known to say) I don’t have any idea about haves and have nots? No idea regarding the widening gap between those who are barely able to make their rent and those who have houses in more than one country? Wrong.
Any job in any industry has the potential for “gap-age” between those who rise to the top, and not necessary because of talent and those who never quite seem to get the credit -financially or screen credit/title wise- I do budgets, I greenlight projects, I supervise crew, I hire/fire and have those within my staff that also do so reporting to me the litany of woe and drama of the day-to-day.
If Peter or any actor came to me and said I want to earn x dollars or I’m making x dollars and my fellow a-listers or hell even the b or c listers want to pool their salaries so the day-players, 3-day players and/or extras are paid better I’d go for it. Once I notified business affairs, agents, managers, VP of Production and stopped the screaming of the DGA/WGA and below the line guilds/unions who think rightly or incorrectly that one one receives the others share entitlement.
If all of the above agreed that this would not cause the cessation of the industry, collapse the current economy and no one would get a headache going to their trailer because something or another pissed them off sure, I’d sign off on it.
Bottom line, if the project makes a profit and as was written previously there are no sure bets within a-b-c list anymore I’d put all the money in the pot and divide up by how many people. It would have to be 100% agreement, when was the last time you saw that? Anywhere?
I know what I’m doing, I’ve been doing it for years and gosh darn it I’ve even known an actor or two in my time. Shucks all to heck, I even have meals with a NON A LIST actor who works regularly and is happy not being in the multi-million dollar range. Would s/he like to earn more, sure who wouldn’t.
Your vitrol towards me seems more than personal, you need to discuss your financial situation with your agent, manager or studio rep. I’m not the enemy, I play by the rules given. Is that an out? In my case yes, while I am not an actor I am not in the realm of decision maker for the industry.
We are an industry that on a good day makes our page count, any other day we’re herding cats hoping no one catches on we’re all just doing the best we can.
Peter has made an excellent proposal. Maybe if he were President of SAG (and the WGA for that matter) there would be more realistic, credible negotiating rather than the posturing and PR stunts that seem to be fad of late. I always thought he was more than capable of being an A-lister and am baffled why he never got better parts. Looks like he could be an A-list negotiator, which could turn out to be a more worthy legacy.
Now that we have opened up a dialogue about stars doing something for their fellow actors, lets ask them to get vested against the studios. Rather than having them choosing sides in the battle of SAG against AFTRA (and soon to be SAG against SAG), let them use their clout in getting a SAG deal done. All every A list actor with a film coming out has to do is threaten not to publicize their films due for release this year. No Leno, Letterman,premieres, junkets, etc. Yes, they all stand to lose on their backend deals, but they are already rich and can afford to take a hit. And they are losing money while no studio films are being started. No promotion would hurt the studios hard and quick. Do you really think the studios will sue every A lister who is suddenly unavailable for promotion? Sony suing Will Smith? I dont think so. A pissed off blue ribbon panel of Will, Julia, Leo, Cameron, Ben,etc, with a panel of studio heads in a room. Get the town back to work again with a good SAG deal, and then we can try to get the quotes back.
Over the last few years a number of pro athletes (foot/basket/baseball) have voluntarily reduced their salaries so the team would have more money to sign other quality players. Not only is stardom worshipped in Hollywood, the stars usually produce most of their own projects, so the more they pay the other actors the less money they will make. Been in the business thirty years and have talked to a lot of actors and agents, and unless something changes the middle class actor is history. Admire your courage and well written letter Peter — now send it to the L A Times and Variety.
“People like Will Smith and Brad Pitt earn their salaries because they put butts in the seats, the same way that Kobe and Lebron do in the NBA.”
Yes, but what good is being the highest paid basketball player when the rest of your team is sub-par & you never have a chance at a championship? How many great, highly-paid players have floundered on teams that couldn’t afford a quality “supporting cast?”
Additionally: Kobe & Lebron were stars from their early teens — Brad Pitt & Will Smith, however, came up through the ranks slowly, the so-called middle class of acting, so they of all people should empathize that plight.
Dear My Coyote,
I am not an actor, I am a fan and I do see that you are trying to come up with a solution to a big problem. Now, not knowing anything about the inner workings of your industry, to me it seems that maybe your asking this from the wrong poeple. Please dont get me wrong, I beleive that “A” list actors and athletes get paid a disgusting amount of money. Heck if I were offered 10 million for a picture It’d take it too. but shouldnt you be focusing on the poeple or organizations that are willing to pay out that 100 for that “A” list actor?
Like I said I know nothing about the inner workings of your industry but if a production company is willing to lay out 200 million to create a picture, then they should be the one’s to make sure that everyone on that film gets a fair salary? And Im not just talking about the extra’s that walk around in the background, the custrtution crew, and the person that cleans up at the end of a shoot. If Imagine Entertainment is willing to lay out 100 million and pay Russell Crowe 20 million to be on this film, that the guys that play members of his ships crew, that give up 4 month of their live to live in Mexico to work on this film, they should be making at least enough to pay his bills. Let Imagine Entertainment be the one resposible for everyone getting a fair wage on a film set. Maybe then they will realize that they cant pay out that 20 million for Russell, but will he do it for 7 million. I bet he would if the script was good enough.
Just my two cents…..
Thank you, Peter, for taking our part so eloquently and passionately. I don’t especially mind stars making millions of dollars per picture – they’re valuable commodities in the business of entertainment. However, as they are able to negotiate contracts on a vastly different level from most of the rest of us, I think it is hubris for them to tell us to accept an demeaning offer. They won’t have to work under these contracts, so this really has little to do with them. It only hurts us as a union when they urge compliance with unacceptable proposals. Perhaps it’s been too long since they’ve had to struggle to make a living. I don’t begrudge them their success, but they betray us all when they ignore the brutal facts.
Class act. I totally agree with the letter’s points and Peter Coyote sure knows how to write a convincing, eloquent argument. Yes, stars should give up some of their ridiculous salaries. While we have to consider the fact that it might be difficult to get stars to lower their salaries, it might be as or even more difficult to get studio heads to take a risk with their stars. I think one reason stars are stars is because of their name recognition. I think the majority of people go to the movies to see the faces, even if they are not very good at their jobs (acting). It is difficult to think of recent commercial successes without much star power behind it. Maybe Hellboy II is the best recent example. But would you really go see, say, the upcoming Step Brothers if the two leads were not big names, but perhaps better comic actors than Will Ferrel and John C. Reily? If they were two actors who were making their first movie? Maybe a bad example, but I hope you get the idea. Thoughts?
Well done Peter. You make perfect sense. I hope everybody reads your letter and makes the necessary changes to ensure the business of film making attains viability for all participants. I would like to personally challenge Tom, Tom, Julia, Eddie, Mike, Jack and Adam to be the first to make the call and make it happen!
Oh, Peter I could kiss you! It’s about time someone really shouted it out that there is a BIG difference in that million dollars (or other amount) and how much it can matter and should matter.
I hope that The Powers That Be will see it that way too and do what they can and should.
All the best.
T-Rex:
When you say there is strength in numbers (120,000 SAG members), that, unfortunately, is what too many others believe. In fact, the opposite is true. PolySci 101 teaches (with numerous examples throughout history), that a small well-organized minority defeats a disorganized majority every time. SAG is the latter. Way too many divergent interests, et al in SAG.
A group/union/etc. has to have a lot of things in common to effectively function. When 85 percent(?) of the members in SAG make less than the poverty level in America, it means they are probably doing something else for a living; or are not dependent on being an actor to survive. Thus, there’s one thing SAG members do not have in common.
When, for example, steelworkers have struck, they did so because of poor working conditions and/or not enough money. Since nearly all of them were in the same boat financially (i.e. their wages), they were united. More importantly, they were willing to call the employers bluff because their attitude was, “if you’re not going to pay me more money and create better working conditions, I’ll go do something else.” And then the employers would have to train all new people, etc. What the steelworkers had was leverage and SAG has none (well, sort of, but let me hold off on that…). Being a steelworker is rarely a “calling” rather merely a way to make a living. Being an actor, is a “calling” and the producers know, actors are not going to walk away and become insurance salesman, or accountants, or, whatever. Actors have the need to act, and that’s why they are so good at it.
Where SAG does have leverage is if the top 200 or so actors who help open movies or are the reason viewers tune in a tv show, would stop rushing movies into production before an anticipated strike (do we remember 2001 when no one worked for the 2nd half of the year?). But, for the most part, they won’t because unlike Peter C. and Alan Rosenberg who truly care about the middle class actor, the A-listers could care less. “I got mine” is their attitude; Peter and Alan are the anomalies in this fight. God bless both of them for fighting the good, but ultimately, fruitless fight.
It’s heartening to see this vigorous conversation. I suppose it’s never occurred to the moron whose anonymous handle is “Milo” who “thinks” he knows what my compensation is, that I would never have had to make 120 films, nor would I have just received my second million air miles card and be humping around the world at 66, if I were making the money he thinks I am. I am a middle class, working character actor, whose wages over the last five years have been rolled back 70%. I don’t care where you start from, that’s a lot to lose, and in my salad days, I was remotely close to a “million dollar actor”. And I’m not unique. I know fine actors who’ve had to sell their homes and take their kids out of private schools. Consider this a moment: (these figures are a few years old, but you’ll get the drift)
WORLD WIDE BOX OFFICE FOR AMERICAN FILMS is about $6 billion dollars. WORLD WIDE SALES OF AMERICAN DVD’S is about $21 billion. (This is a little skewed because it also includes porn and sports). The actors, unlike musicians, writers, playwrights,composers, etc. make virtually no residuals on DVD’s. Zip. A market twice as big as box office and the actors (not the stars because they have the power to negotiate) get nothing.
Producers have insisted that DVD residuals are “a deal-breaker” and the unions have rolled repeatedly. So, I ask you, what are the options for actors to survive? One would be for the stars to share to help insure the survival of their fellows, and another would be to close the entire town down in a spiteful act of vengeance, to make the point that if “the little people” can’t survive, we won’t let you (the wealthy) survive either. A third option would be to imitate the frog in a pot of slowly heated water, and do nothing until you’re boiled. Pondering those options, I decided to write the letter I did. It may have been a soft landing, but the idea of so many people suffering because of the obdurateness and greed of a few, was not an acceptable call for me. Perhaps when my wages are down 80%, I’ll see things differently. I suspect that “Manny” and those who are the most dismissive about this colloquoy are people who do not make their living as actors. It’s easy to snipe if you’ve got money coming in steadily from somewhere else, and especially easy if you remain anonymous. Quel courage mes amis.
Mr. Coyote’s idea is intriguing and well-framed, and we should certainly welcome such moves on the part of any A-listers who choose to so act. I would not, however, compare a strike to the “nuclear” option, any more than the AMPTP would consider their current de facto lockout a “nuclear” option.
A little perspective. A lot of A-listers are also producers. It’s not just Tom Hanks producing quite a few projects he’s not appearing in. Some non-A-listers are also in the ranks of producers. The priorities of such actors may be split. Working actors cannot rely on the voluntary efforts of such actor/producers (any more than the WGA could rely on writer-directors to sway the DGA), so we should not be distracted by such suggestions, however well-intentioned.
We must continue to support our elected leadership and our negotiators in our ongoing talks with the AMPTP. We must seize and control our own destinies. When we are unified, the threat to withhold our talents carries real weight. That solidarity will win us a real contract.
Peter, you just attacked Milo, who was defending you while quoting someone else’s rude comment.
:/
I think the saddest thing of all, aside from being a no-name actress who now seemingly has had a mountain placed in front of her, is that this kind of bullshit is happening all across America in every job and every business. The rich are indeed getting richer and the middle class and poor are getting snuffed out. The struggling economy affects us first, yes, but will eventually cripple the upper class as well. The same thing is taking place in television and film. Call it the “trickle-up” effect. It is no thanks to greedy, stingy conglomerates that everyone is suffering, but notably the last to feel it’s affects will be the assholes like Tom Hanks … and he will feel the blow. He’ll never be subjected to living out of a one bedroom apartment in North Hollywood, but he may have to fire his $75,000.00 a year private chef.
I think Peter’s suggestion makes damn good sense. The problem is implementing it and getting all parties to agree upon it. In a capitalist society, it is highly unlikely that will ever happen. The great divide is just getting greater. What I DO hope comes of this struggle is more and more independent production with lesser known talent and the hopeful demise of the conglomerates. Giants that big usually have some kind of “crime” supporting their vast fortunes and we know that vast fortune comes from stealing from the little guy. I think it would be positively wonderful to make the producers wait as long as humanly possible until they are forced to see that we DO have the power to take away those fortunes from them. After all, they’ve built these magnificent empires by pushing us around. So what if we simply refuse? They couldn’t go for long using non-union talent or pushing more reality tv. What else would happen? The formation of a NEW actors union? One with greater power than SAG? Like that’s gonna happen. Hey, my feeling is that if these stupid stars don’t want to join in to help support their own contemporaries, FUCK THEM. Make them watch their careers walk past them while we go out on strike. It is by far, THE ONE MOST POWERFUL TOOL we have. And if we have no support from our “sister” union AFTRA, no sympathies from AMPTP, and absolutely NO support from “stars” … FUCK THEM. Let’s go walk the picket line. We’re ACTORS. WE are USED TO this up and down lifestyle. We are SMART enough to have other jobs. We are resilient enough to bounce back time and again just as we’ve had to from auditions we didn’t book, etc. etc. We have a TON of power by striking, just as we have a ton of power by doing NOTHING which is exactly what Alan and Doug are doing …. they’re making AMPTP wait and wait and wait and wait. Hey, guess what? AMPTP is losing money. THEY are the ones who are starting to get nervous.
So before we go making intelligent suggestions that have ZERO chance of every being implemented, how about we just patiently wait on the sidelines while the AMPTP slowly LOSES their power over us? Sorry to be the devil’s advocate, but Peter’s idea is only good in theory. The best idea out there is the one that’s ALREADY being implemented.
So, make ‘em SWEAT HARD, Alan and Doug! Make them wait for a long time. We’ll continue to find work in indies. Fuck the stars. We know NOW just where their interests lay.
Wow. good stuff. Commonality? Actors are fucking pissed off. Thoughts of UPM’s (jen) and glass-half-emptys (Andy) aside, there seems to be an emerging consensus: fuck stars (metaphorically) and fuck the AMPTP. Peter’s latest post lays out the numbers in stark relief: there’s no shortage of dough to go around. “10 Billion in DVD sales” the headline in Variety on Monday. Movies? Stupid money. Huge. And yet, we’re actually arguing about striking because the suits want to push us out of the internet. As the man once said in response to the question “why do you rob banks?’ “that’s where the money is.” But here we are, thumbs up our asses, we actors, one “union” running into the AMPTP’s arms to give them what they want (AFTRA) and another one having trouble getting its shit together to give our negotiators a strike authorization so, as Doug Allen said “collective bargaining” isn’t “collective begging.” Focus people. Yes, it’s bad for middle class actors, and yes, it’s going to get worse, if this deal goes through. What say we shut out the peanut gallery (non SAG middle class actors) and agree on the obvious: we’re marching right into a tar pit. Can they get an entire industry of new actors to complement their Pitts and Hanks and Clooney’s and Roberts and so on? Methinks not. We’re not miners. It’s a particular craft, and when somebody can’t do it? Hoo boy you got trouble. Let’s give our Generals what they need and call the AMPTP’s bluff, because, you all understand, they are bluffing, right? How long do you think they’ll last when the industry shuts down overnight? And what are we asking for, really? Fair pay, a percentage of all revenue from the internet? A raise in a nearly 30 year old joke on DVD? A raise in minimums (read maximums) because there are no quotes anymore?Protection from some suit asking you if you’d mind wearing an Apple Computer T-shirt through the entire movie, for no apparent reason? Keeping force majeure as it is, instead of giving it away? Boy, we’re really breaking the bank, huh? The only way to avoid the ugliness is to give them the strike authorization. Then it’s on the AMPTP. Then it becomes “you really wanna go to war over THESE fair, reasonable and overdue bullet points?” They’re gonna think long and hard about that, trust me. But we gotta have the threat first. Let’s give it to them.
Interesting discussion here… It is commendable that Mr. Coyote has the courage to point out the economic disparity in our industry and to attempt some kind of resolution. Nevertheless, it appears that he is trying to get around the most obvious solution in favor of some “third way” that is fundamentally flawed.
What actors need is the ability to make a living. Like workers in every other industry, we are struggling to make ends meet in spite of the ever increasing divide between the haves and the have-nots. It would be folly to design a system whereby the have-nots depend completely on the good will of the haves for economic survival. Although this industry relies heavily on relationships of trust between members of its community, it is the collective bargaining agreement that allows newcomers any hope for living as the artists we have trained to be.
What we need now is a strong and determined SAG negotiating team, backed by a united membership that is ready to go the distance for what is right. The fact that actors are not getting what we deserve is no one’s fault but the corporate owners who want to snatch every stitch of profit they can from every seam.
Mr. Coyote makes a valid point in regard to “established character actors” whose salaries have been driven back by as much as 60-70% – and certainly these actors deserve to make a decent living. But how would his solution solve the dilemma of actors such as myself who do not even have a “quote,” but are happy to work for scale? What about scale? What about the newcomers, who are just trying to get a foot in the door?
We need an answer that will address the needs of working actors at all levels – and I am not speaking of the millionaires who are producers themselves – but of actors, members of the Guild –as Alan Rosenberg has said — people who have joined SAG, paid their dues, trained and worked hard — who desire to work as actors.
What we need is the same thing that the founders of the Screen Actors Guild needed back in 1933, in the midst of another steep economic downturn, replete with failing banks, foreclosures and food shortages. We need a strong union.
I see that several people have called upon Mr. Coyote to be SAG’s president. Although Mr. Coyote may have many qualifications that would not preclude him from running for president in the future, I feel quite confident in the leadership we have at this historical moment. We have a president, a vice-president, a lead negotiator, and a whole team of courageous people who have stuck their necks out at the risk of their own “popularity” to do the right thing – and that is not to buckle under the pressure of the greedy AMPTP or the self-interested celebrities who tried to bully them into accepting a crappy deal.
I recognize and appreciate Mr. Coyote’s deeply felt concerns and thoughtful discourse, but I am convinced that we cannot depend on the paternalistic impulses of multimillionaires to determine our own future.
What we need is the solidarity of great actors like Mr. Coyote. We need him and others like him in unity with those of us who have yet to achieve his stature. There is no greater force that that of a solid organized labor organization when it chooses to be so. As Sean Penn recently said, “It is up to the rank and file to decide its responsibility and demonstrate its courage.” I hope that Mr. Coyote will join us.
In unity,
A Rank and File SAG Member
I don’t know if I agree that’s it all about Socialism maybe to a degree but I just want to get my damn quote when my reps ask for it when I book work! Yay Peter for speaking out on what I’ve been questioning all along. Where are the A-list actors when you need them?
Apologies to “Milo”—I missed the “quotes” around the phrase referring to me giving my own money. Very sorry. Smart enough to type, not focused enough to read carefully.
Sorry to all, yet again, but the line in my next to last post that reads, “in my salad days I was remotely close to a million dollar actor” should have read, “in my salad days I was never remotely close to being a million dollar actor. I have actually stood next to many million dollar actors.
These new-fangled inventions are little tough on old Dodder here…
From a journeyman actor, I thank you. I also think you’d make a brilliant President of the Screen Actors Guild.
– Jordana Capra in Los Angeles
I say rank & file get to picketing ALL CURRENT MOVIE HOUSES — IN ALL MAJOR CITIES!!! URGE ALL CUSTOMERS THAT AMPTP IS UNFAIR TO ITS WORKERS! THAT WILL HIT AMPTP WHERE IT HURTS!! Hey I can still afford a piece of cardboard and a stick that says AMPTP IS UNFAIR TO ITS WORKERS – BOYCOTT THE MOVIES!!
Anyone Agree?????????
Bottom line:
Actors are free to negotiate with their employers what they will get paid based on what they are worth on the open market.
Actors always have the option to decline an offer they “feel” beneath their market value (”quote”).
While I highly respect Mr. Coyote’s acting talent, I must strongly disagree with his self-congratulatory premise’s attempt to shame A-listers into “voluntarily” sharing their wealth with those less deserving.
This ain’t a charity, it’s a competitive business. Grow a pair, or hit the road.
Ain’t no shame in this game A.B. — it’s all about sharing the love! Southwest Airline employees did it back in the day to so everyone would still have a job.
So, just b/c someone is worth such and such on the open market, does that make them better? I don’t think so……. funny how not one A-lister has made a comment. Probably b/c no A-lister has been offered $300 a day with no residuals for an internet project. Hmmm???? You’re the one who needs to grow a sac!
You couldn’t survive a minute out on the street like many of the “starving actors” do, you’d crumble softie!
Hey, Not an Actor. Just doing double the work because the company had to “cut back” on expenses to increase profitabliity and so laid off a lot of people. The CEO and top management did not cut their multi-million dollar salaries and their multi-million dollar bonus packages. This differential between the top and the bottom is widening in all sectors of our country. The rich get richer and the middle class gets poorer (the poor gets assistance). At least the actors aren’t being told to play two or three roles in the same movie for the same money (don’t yell! I’m all for this proposal!) This idea just needs to be adopted in all segments of business in the US before there is no more middle class.
Oh! for the rest of us. What do you mean by an actor’s quotes? Is it the number of times they had a screen credit?
Exhausted and salary capped in the business world.
Peter I applaud your voice of reason and humanity in this struggle. I knew I was right to name my cat after you! I also support boycotting
the movie houses and the video stores. I have a huge stack of books by my bed that wants reading. This is an industry wide class war.
We are fighting to survive here in Toronto because of the past 1 1/2 yrs of contract negotiations with these ‘”media moguls”. First in late ‘07 they starved us 6 mos before we headed into our negotiations of the next 3 yr contract. If we are ” lucky” we can now work in some cases for wages we were earning in ‘88 . They had a room full of lawyers and we had one. We capitulated. We gave up 50 years of seniority, built in safety standard checks and gender and race discrimination protection. Next came the Actra negotiations and strike, then the following winter DGA , the Writers and now Actors. The stories are the same. We are all working for less and less every 3 yrs… that is when we actually have work. We are not only played off against many North American jurisdictions and further and further flung locales like Czech R., Romania and Bulgaria but here in TO its against brothers and sisters of our local. It has become a dog eat dog industry in this town. I suspect every city is feeling this way. Meanwhile back in the hills Disney and the like post billions of dollars in profits each year. The monster seems to have an unquenchable appetite! We gotta start wearing garlic or form strong coalitions within the entertainment industry from A list stars to the guy or gal who sweeps the floors or empties the honeywagon.
“No Shame” injects his/her self-satisfied belittlement (shaming) into his/her post claiming to reject shame.
He/she attempts that intellectually vacant rhetorical tactic in order to discredit (demonize) a post with an opposing viewpoint.
Readers are, as always, free to draw their own conclusions as to why “No Shame” might feel the need to stifle our open discourse in such a hypocritical (insecure) manner.
“No Shame” then attempts the fallacious emotion-based deflection: “So, just b/c someone is worth such and such on the open market, does that make them better?”
This business isn’t a question about “better” or “worse” – that’s between ones’ self and one’s God (or, in the case of disbelievers, one’s faith).
It’s a question of the value for one’s services as freely negotiated on the open market.
People earn what they negotiate for themselves, and work to achieve (deserve). The idea of surrendering that freedom to others strikes me as round-heeled.
“No Shame” pettily concludes with the insulting presumption: “You couldn’t survive a minute out on the street like many of the ’starving actors’ do, you’d crumble softie!”
Such hyperbolic fear-mongering that actors are “starving” in America in the 21st century is inane and of little use to this discussion, in my view.
If an actor is “starving” because he can’t negotiate the salary to which he feels entitled, there is nothing stopping him from seeking employment elsewhere.
Mr. Coyote,
When you complain that someone who has an opposing view chooses, in a public forum, to remain anonymous… but you then attempt to dehumanize him as either a “moron” or (Horror!) “greedy”, etc. — you undermine your own complaint (i.e., why would anyone choose to give their name to someone that uses bullying rhetorical muckraking e.g., “moron”?).
It appears that you are only “heartened” by “vigorous conversation” when it tilts in your ideological direction (socialist).
I too know fine actors that have had to sell their homes and take their kids out of private school.
Yet, they don’t need you, nor Rosenberg, nor anyone else to obdurately project envious vilification upon A-listers and “evil corporations” (our employers) for not “volunteering” to “share” their wealth with them.
They marshall onward with dignity and class, even going to the “extreme” of finding supplemental employment elsewhere.
You ask: “what are the options for actors to survive?”
But then you propose three false choices exploiting the marxist “underdog”/victim-class premise.
Why might you have excluded a fourth, and most obvious, option for “survival”: Get another job that pays the bills (e.g., waiting tables).
Actors are not entitled to a salary beyond what they can negotiate for themselves (deserve).
You wrote: “the idea of so many people suffering because of the obdurateness and greed of a few, was not an acceptable call for me.”
Karl Marx wrote: “From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs.”
Coincidence?
I challenge the arrogance and presumption of your statement: “We have the consciousness and solidarity”.
With all due respect, of course…
The point ALL are missing here is there is NO NEGOTIATING! Producers are playing hardball.
Actors’ can no longer negotiate if a show/film is not willing to. This is the case more and more.
“Quotes/day calls” (i.e. rate of pay over scale one has worked up to due to experience, etc.) are simply not being honored.
There is not much fair negotiating going on in Hollywood unless you are of course, an A-Lister who can demand it … as unique, cute, in demand you are as a guest/supporting player … a show/film with no negotiating room for supporting roles will just hire the next actor unless the actor settles.
I am rank and file and KNOW of this first hand….. myself and many other actors in my guild have experienced this in recent years, when reality TV has networks posting record profits. This is not a fantasy.
If any A-Listers are reading this – please speak up. This is a request from the rank and file, your co-stars colleague who need our A-Lister’s support.
Won’t you come out and speak up for us!
Thanks!
The rank and file needs to hear from you.
As Anonymous’ naive post above states:
“People earn what they negotiate for themselves, and work to achieve (deserve). The idea of surrendering that freedom to others strikes me as round-heeled.”
Anonymous is still missing the point big-time – a pompous cad so obviously jaded and unaware of reality … never been between a rock and a hard place Anonymous? … i.e. (between your head and your ass). Quite possibly Anonymous’ is a producers guild member because it doesn’t sound to me like “No Shame” was “discredit [ing] (demonize) a post with an opposing viewpoint” … just stating his/her own viewpoint … but “No Shame” could say the same about you Anonymous!
So, if you aren’t in the business … and haven’t gone thru it … please shut up…….. it is a FACT that in recent years there has been no negotiating. “Scale only” is listed as the only pay available to actors …. yet production still seeks the same qualified, supporting actors with experience.
Further, Anonymous states:
“if an actor is “starving” because he can’t negotiate the salary to which he feels entitled, there is nothing stopping him from seeking employment elsewhere” ….. that’s laughable… once again, this Anonymous person has not gotten the point.
This was not mean to mean literally “starving.” And that proves “No Shame’s” point about being a “softie” …… Anonymous must be so sheltered to really think an actor actually would go without and not take care of business. Most actors DO work at a job to support him/her self or family while still being available to audition for the job(s) of acting.
My point – all of the above still does not change the fact that the producers want to pay “scale” whenever they can, want to break the unions, want to stop fair pay and residuals on new media (the future of the business).
Nothing changes if nothing changes …. The drums of strike are pounding.
The fact that “’Quotes/day calls’ (i.e. rate of pay over scale one has worked up to due to experience, etc.) are simply not being honored” is irrelevant.
The uncomfortable fact is that one’s market value is determined not by one’s past salary, but by one’s current negotiation/s for new work.
Who here can make the argument that employers should “honor” the pay scale that, say, Burt Reynolds worked up to due to his experience?
Strike Captain’s clumsy crassness, rhetorical bullying, self-aggrandizing “sophistication” (naiveté) and presumptuous “clairvoyance” — illustrate for us, yet again, the insecurity, petulance and ignorance of one incapable of facing uncomfortable facts (truth).
He/she betrays his/her own intolerant (intellectually totalitarian) charade with his/her fear-based order to “shut up”.
Sir/Madam, your post is a perfect example proving the axiom: “Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, and beat you with experience.”
Au revoir…
Yes, you are an idiot Anonymous — well said!
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
Its (unwitting?) irony’s worthy of a chuckle.
Have a nice day…
“Talk sense to a fool, and he calls you foolish.” — Euripides
Now, I am not saying ALL Hollywood production companies are like this — but SOME are.
Thought I’d add this for all the non-industry posters:
****************************************
In today’s “supporting role” job requests for Hollywood CA,which seek actors for supporting roles (i.e., the actor who plays the cop, waiter, parent, teacher, lawyer, or whatever!) I found these ACTUAL quotes for pay posted today!
Read on:
“PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT ANYONE WHO WILL NOT WORK FOR OUR TOP OF SHOW RATE OF $6072 OR WHERE APPLICABLE, OUR 1 DAY TOP OF SHOW RATE OF $1250 OR 2 DAY TOP OF SHOW RATE OF $2500”
The above is from a cable NETWORK SHOW doing well — and those “quotes” above are way below many seasoned actors quotes.
Here’s another one:
This from a major car manufacturer – advertising for an internet commercial (i.e. Union Internet Viral Video same shit!):
“SEEKING ACTORS WILLING TO WORK FOR ULTRA LOW BUDGET SCALE (which means: $100 a day, no residuals)”
And here’s another one:
From a major show on another major network seeking
co-star actors:
“Pay Rate: SAG SCALE” — (again, scale is below many actors quotes)
And now for the BEST ONE:
This from a MAJOR, EMMY AWARD WINNING SHOW ON A MAJOR NETWORK seeking supporting actors for one of it’s TV episodes (wish I could tell you the show). Besides the low pay, you can already watch episodes of it on the internet (which actors aren’t receiving residuals on but network is receiving big advertising bucks!):
“Pay Rate: Scale Location: Los Angeles”
I applaud Peter Coyote for having the guts to share this suggestion. I think it is a wonderful idea, and one that other industries could also benefit from. How many CEOs make millions leading even failing companies when the professionals that actually get the day-to-day work done fall farther and farther behind in income? Lets begin to address the disparity in income across the board in our nation.
I’m a big fan of Peter Coyote’s, having had the wonderful experience of working with him on a feature last year. His idea is innovative and a totally new approach and will undoubtedly have it’s nay-sayers but it’s absolutely worth exploring. A SAG strike will hurt everybody – and many are still recovering from last year’s Writers Guild strike. Alas, the big stars are hurt the least by a strike because they’ve usually got pretty hefty residuals to fall back on. Hats off to Peter for trying to find a way to break the logjam and address the inequities without using the strike weapon.