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I just got back in my office to find this announcement. My sources say the tentative pact is merely a carbon copy of the AFTRA-AMPTP agreement with a few feature bones thrown in. Nothing that was unexpected. Nothing that was hard fought beyond the 2-year/3-year change-up. Because that's what the SAG National Majority did in this negotiation: nothing. And that's what SAG got as a result: nothing. And now the economy is picking up.
LOS ANGELES (April 17, 2008) – The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers and Screen Actors Guild today announced that the parties have reached tentative agreement on successor agreements to the Producer-Screen Actors Guild Codified Basic Agreement.
Details of the agreement covering television programs and motion pictures will not be disclosed prior to review by the SAG national board of directors this Sunday, April 19, at a previously scheduled board meeting via videoconference in Los Angeles and New York.
Screen Actors Guild will present the tentative agreement to the Screen Actors Guild board of directors for approval and referral to the membership for ratification.
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The sell out is complete.
Is it over?
And by odd coincidence it’s the same day YouTube starts rolling out brand new shows from CBS and Crackle online. How much am I getting paid for that again?
This just proves that actors are stupid. If they were as vocal about their contract negations and the studios as they about their politics they could have gotten a better contract. Actors think they know whats best for us, yet they can’t even take care of their own union contracts—MOROONS
I hope this is true. If an agreement is presented at this plenary, there will be a chance for the membership to vote. There will be a 25% no vote on the National Board so there will be a Con Statement included with the ballot. Finally, we will find out if the membership is as stupid as New York, the Regional Branch Division and the AMPTP think they are.
For those of us who make our living from one day player job to the next, a contract without residuals will not fly.
Well it’ been wait-and-see for some time now. A few more days won’t hurt anything. I had heard about this tentative board meeting, now I know the agenda. I won’t say whether or not I’ll approve of this contract offer until I see it, but I’m not exactly optimistic about what it will contain, either.
The National Majority fired Doug Allen because (they said) he couldn’t get a fair contract offer from the AMPTP. And what is this? Essentially the same offer. Is David White gonna fire himself or John McGuire for the same reason(s)? Not. I was open-minded when the new group took over and I had hoped for something good to come of it. Obviously, the smoke has dissipated and the mirrors are all now cracked. The new board, NED and task force have done nothing to improve our position.
Interesting to hear that the contract offer is at least what the AFTRA contract is/was. Still on that note, the AFTRA contract ain’t gonna get ratified by the SAG membership. We’ve all had far too much time to learn what this contract will do to SAG in the future, and to learn what the moguls are planning to use the internet for.
(Side note: SONY just announced a deal to show SONY TV and Movies on YouTube. You think they’ll make tons of money doing that? Yep. Any residual structure (profit participation in place for actors (or writers) on those productions delivered via new media? Nope.)
The cat’s pretty much out of the bag. We know the truth about management’s goals (to kill residuals, among other things). Let’s use that knowledge to our advantage for a change. All SAG membership has to do now is stand firm on what we know to be true, and not falter because of pressure from outside sources (sister unions, management, producer/actors, our own friggin’ board, etc) to “play ball”. Screw that! I’m in this to make a living doing what I love and there’s no reason I should have to do it for free when there’s so much money lining management’s deep pockets.
Any of you fellow SAG members who are unclear as to what this contract means to our future, please, please, please take some time and do some simple research – from all sides. Your future as a wage-earning actor depends on it. But remember, the SAG website is no longer your friend. Any “information” you get from there is suspect, just as the National Majority and their ulterior motives are. Search Nikki’s website for other pertinent contract conversations and look at all sides. Search the web. The information, the truth is there for you.
We members are every bit as powerful as we believe we can be – but the inverse is also true. Every member gets a vote. The recent Presidential election showed how powerful a single vote can be. Keep that in mind when that SAG ballot comes in the mail. Make the small effort to vote, and spend the damn 42 cents on a postage stamp. Show that you care about where your career is headed, and let your voice be heard!
In solidarity,
Nikki wrote: Nothing that was hard fought beyond the 2-year/3-year change-up.
Do we know the result of that fight yet? Will the deal expire in June 2011 or June 2012, or did they split the difference?
Can’t wait to see how well we perform with our tails now firmly planted between our legs. Congrats are due to all the AMPTP. Very shrewdly done. Time to start producing, I guess.
I see a parade down Fifth avenue. Ticker tape, the whole thing: White, McGuire, Vaughn, Masur , Freed, Brenneman, Arkin, Farrell, Cromwell.
Hail the conquering heroes.
O.K. I guess the fair haired high profile friendly first National Majority members in favor of going along to get along will just be so happy when the companies start inserting products like Viagra and Depends in their hands during their next film, and reminding them to play nice and go along, after all they agreed to it. I cannot wait to read about the first high profile dispute. Nikke, you can count the days until you can write a big TOLDJA!
And I guess the rest of us poor slacker actors in the biz can forget about giving up the second job.
VOTE NO ON ANY CONTRACT THAT DOES NOT KEEP THE SAME RESIDUALS, THE SAME PRODUCT PLACEMENT TERMS, THE SAME FORCE MAJEURE PROTECTIONS, ETC, ETC.
If I am gonna be stuck at my second job by voting either way, I might as well let them know how much I appreciate their effort. VOTE NO.
Well that’s not quite true. I believe it still has to be ratified by the membership. The question is what will the membership do? I have no idea because the current leadership came into power in a coup and therefore don’t represent the membership at large. I’m sure they will tell us this is the best deal ever and we should sign it so we can all work, etc, etc. And the Membership First guys will come out with the “We’re all gonna die if we ratify this thing” crap that they do. Tell me, do moderates exist in America anymore? How does one make an informed decision when all sides are so extreme? I for one have given up hope. Doesn’t matter to me if we ratify it or we strike. It really doesn’t. Because I have finally accepted the fact that I will have to get a real job. And this has been coming for a long time. It won’t be the first negotiation we’ve dropped the ball on.
…wouldn’t exactly categorize the economy as “picking up.” At best Wall Street (not the “real economy”) is leveling out at a bottom…
Bend over and kiss your residuals goodbye.
We already know from news reports from various sources over the past few months that the tentative agreement is not substantively different from the LBF SAG voters overwhelmingly rejected in the postcard poll just a few months ago.
IOW, the tentative agreement – barring some HUGE surprises – has the same onerous new media, residuals, product placement, and image licensing provisions as the LBF.
This is not about one SAG faction versus another, or what A-list actors – many of whom are producer multi-hyphenates – want, or even the state of the economy. The question is, does this proposed agreement meet the needs of actors, particularly in new media.
Clearly, the answer to that question is a resounding no. And that’s how SAG members should vote on this.
DH, nobody wants to hear it.
Our town is suffering and this issue is a huge part of it. Put it to rest, lets get some movies and TV shows filming again!
In a couple years when all the unions deals are about to expire, it can be re-addressed. But I for one know too many good people who are great at their jobs who are unemployed, and it needs to stop.
Good job new SAG leaders! Our town needs some action again!
SAG is not a union… it’s a cadaver…
But short lived. I won’t be voting for this thing. I will continue to fight for something better.
Today, every SAG actor auditioned for the role of Prison Bitch.
Isn’t that interesting? They will not disclose the details of the deal. I guess they are not proud of it and need time to spin their spin. Can’t see voting for the AFTRA deal no matter how they try and dress it up.
Nobody to blame but our own guild. DGA spent over million $ for their own study on profits from new media and went to the table with facts in hand. SAG wanted the world but had nothing to back up their claims. Why is anyone surprised?
The sell out is only complete if the members ratify this crappy deal. VOTE NO!
If the deal is the same as AFTRA, then I will simply vote no.
Please explain why we just shelled out a fortune to White and McGuire to do nothing.
I look to the next union elections to minimize any further damage Unite for Strength and AFTRA (especially Reardon) can inflict on all actors.
And to all the sellout celebrities who forgot where you came from, I hope the paparazzi make a fortune off your arrogance and stupidity.
New media is here! Get your foot out of your mouth and in the door! Once it closes, you’ll see why most of us wanted to fight for it.
What a bunch of chuckleheads.
What leads’ you to believe the economy is picking up?
Where’s my Vaseline?
Nikki, seriously, what gives you the right to negatively opine on a deal before you even know the details? No sell out. The bleeding has to stop. Over $60 million dollars in last wages to the working actor. A disastrous policy by Allen and Rosenberg and AMJ and their faction. They have seriously put a dent in the strength of this union. Hold out for what? A few measly dollars in New Media, now we get coverage and can wait and see how it’s going to play out. TV gone to AFTRA. Yeah, MF, pat yourself on the back. You really showed them.
Time to cut a deal and get out. The new national majority shows that it can play with the big boys — and go back to being a force and a grown up at the same time — and get some deals done. 2 deals in a few months. What did Doug Allen get us? Nothing. Nada. Nichts. How can any logical person think that that is success?
Happy Times!
If this is not a good deal when we see the fine print then Vote NO. Otherwise there will only be movie stars and the rest of us who will ONLY be hobby actors who work at Starbucks, get a acting gig for a few days and a few hundred bucks. Then back to the grind. No residuals, No control on images, No money for new media. If that’s what you want be a fool. READ the FINE PRINT and don’t be scared to send the deal back to the table. NO DEAL is BETTER than a BAD DEAL !!! Alan and Doug ALWAYS looked after the members of SAG. They have balls of steel. Do you?
It won’t matter what the board thinks. It’s over for them. The membership will reject it anyway.I feel bad for the studios and producers who have sealed their fate. Various members of various guilds will come together and create their own streaming content with far less cost and will jointly share the profits. No need for networks or studios although the shareholders will make some very good money on real estate. Too bad the guys in Hollywood don’t have any creative sense. They could have settled and run the con a few more years. Now everyone will tell them to fuck off. You know guys-you pretend to pay us we’ll pretend to work. Who the hell would bother with shooting any guest spots on T.V. for no dough when you can set up your own company and make some money.SAG is stupid, AFTRA is braindead and AMPTA is a bunch of guys out of work in 24 months.
This evening I heard that a tentative accord has been reached between SAG and the cabal called the AMPTP, regarding our contract. We’ve been without an agreement for more than nine months and during that time, the industry has changed dramatically. So, assuming (danger, Will Robinson;)…but assuming the SAG Board chooses to offer it to the membership for a vote, it is possible that it will be approved…and production activity may increase. Or not.
So how will I vote? Good question. I am very ambivalent. I don’t need to work anymore…primarily because of past contracts that allowed me to earn my living and my pension. This newest contract makes that an unlikely eventuality for anyone beginning their career these days. Under the present industry realities, if I began my career today and enjoyed identical success for the next 38 years, I would probably not have earned a livable pension…and would probably need to find outside work, simply to live. Without residuals, a challenging profession becomes a hobby for all but the very few who attain stardom.
In Vietnam, there was a tiered reality. For every man with his face in the mud (combat troops) there were nine men in support of his efforts – clerks, transport, supply, medical, admin, etc. That’s a ten to one ratio. I suspect the ratio in show business is more like fifty to one, maybe higher. We don’t often think of the ancillary industries that support our creativity and make their own livings from that support. Again, it’s people in transportation, catering, casting, publicity, management, crews, post-production…a legion of professionals whose faces are unknown but without whom, the movies and TV shows the public enjoys could not be made. They have been brutally disadvantaged by our economic tsuris, our recent labor unrest and diminished production.
As with the general population in these times, the savings, home values and economic well-being of our working pyramid are stressed. Those of us in this industry have always known feast or famine, good times and fallow times…but the game has changed to such an extent that making a living has evolved from “difficult” to “un-fucking-likely”.
The “middle-class actor”, a category for which I am a poster child,is fast becoming extinct. You can be an extra (an aspirant) or a “star”…with precious little wiggle room in between.
So, regarding my vote, as I said, I am ambivalent. My present comfortable reality exists because earlier actors struggled to create the labor conditions that allowed my success. I’d not like to surrender those hard-earned gains…but that ship may well have sailed, in any case. And at this time of difficulty and rising unemployment, I would like to see the underlying, anonymous tiers of our industry have a chance to make their living, pay their mortgages, educate their children.
I can play hardball without personal sacrifice, I can play the game, based upon principle and vote NO. It’s a bullshit contract, meaning it exploits those of us on the cutting edge of creativity. In Vietnam, our support personnel were busy getting bullets and blood and pay and equipment to those of us in the killing fields. In a similar sense, the lower tiers of show business want to be busy supporting our creativity…and they need production to make their living.
Sooo…I’m torn. But as I write this, I’m inclined to vote YES. Many professionals need to have work, many actors need the chance to “make their bones” and while principle is a very fine intellectual concept, I’d rather focus my energies on creating ways to circumvent the “suits” ability to run our plantation and dictate the conditions of employment, in time to come. This industry is rapidly evolving.
One thing is for shit-sure: Suits don’t create a damn thing. But at present, Suits get to decide how to divvy up the proceeds of our creativity. We (SAG) have a year or two to determine how best to insure that profits become more equitably shared by the creative forces that generated them.
“DH, nobody wants to hear it. Our town is suffering and this issue is a huge part of it. Put it to rest, lets get some movies and TV shows filming again!
In a couple years when all the unions deals are about to expire, it can be re-addressed. But I for one know too many good people who are great at their jobs who are unemployed, and it needs to stop. Good job new SAG leaders! Our town needs some action again!”
Who are these dumbasses who keep saying “Vote yes, lets get back to work!” The studios haven’t curtailed production because of the protracted negotiations. Anybody who thinks that suddenly a flood of new productions will start after this contract is ratified is either stupid or a studio shill trolling the boards.
Hey, “Shut It DH”… you have a lot to learn. You have no idea why this town is hurting.
Primarily, it has to do with the last 15 years Hollywood Studios have made a financial structure of the studios bleeding money from outside investors. That is why they have gone around the world to raise money for movies, while the studios put in very little capital themselves. We have raped the Japanese, Pacific Rim, Germany, France, the EU at large, the Irish, and lastly the Indians. US investors were left to massive hedge funds and investment banks like Lehman… and they don’t exist anymore.
In short, Hollywood has built a financial structure that is absolutely unsustainable and untenable. And now that policy is coming home and breaking us.
The trick to survival is micro-marketing. SMALLER budget productions for narrow demographics., which means real marketing behind the movies and real financial prudence in productions, which means no more $60 million budgets for teen movies, which means small crews, which means the current union-mandated proportionate hiring levels have to be abated and finacial concessions from the unions.
While it is antithetical to the current mindset of unions and execs, it is the only thing that will keep this business going. Yes, there will always be a Harry Potter or James Bond movie and audience, but the day to day operations of the future will resemble more Corman than Spielberg.
THAT is what is fucking this town. There is NO outside money coming in to support the studios. The world is in a financial crisis and it has nothing to do with the SAG contract.
However, SAG future mediocrity does depend on this contract. This is a stupid, bad deal by all accounts, but the operations and backstabbing that SAG went though, the absolute selling out by working “successful” actors (like the losers on Desperate Housewives raving about “let’s get a good contract next time – AFTER our show is cancelled and we aren’t working anyway) to the detriment of the very conditions that created their careers.
I thought the WGA was pathetic. SAG blew them out of the water in the suck equation.
dear Shut it DH,
I’m not in this industry (I work in import transportatoin) but I’ve been out of work for 17 months and a lot of people I know in various fields are in the same situation. Jobs that people thought were safe are gone; work has gone overseas or to the south or east where wages are lower. Even when the entire economy gets better, those jobs aren’t coming back. It sounds to me like you think the reason they’re not making movies (etc) is due to the lack of a contract. I think that’s a simplistic interpretation. I don’t think they’ll start making films as soon as the contract is signed, I think it’s more dependant on the overal economy and available capital for financing more than contract/no contract.
In other industries I see management negotiating for special deals to keep the jobs local but I’m also seeing more cost cutting in labor than other areas.
The ILWU tried to organize the company I worked for; it was voted down because we were promised by the CEO of the company that if we didn’t go union, he would guarantee us the Long Beach office would stay open for as long as the company was in business. Had we voted yes, we would at least have had a union card, even if there’s not that many openings. As it happened, we found out as soon as we voted no, they started planning on closing the local offices (in ILWU areas) and lied not just to us, but to the steamship lines (principals/customers) themselves.
Almost any union is better than no union, a strong union is best of all…and I’m still not a union member…just an experienced observer.
NEVER BEFORE IN SAG HISTORY HAS SO MUCH BEEN LOST WHILE FIGHTING OVER SO LITTLE.
What I’m curious about is whatever happened to the DVD issue? If there’s no money in New Media yet, as the AMPTP and some on here claim, and it’s possible to look at this again next time, and at that point change the contract to fairly reflect the growth in New Media, why was that never done on the Home Video/DVD issue?
From what I recall during the Writer’s strike, the whole DVD thing became a sticking point for the AMPTP, where they were saying don’t even try to negotiate it because it’s completely off the table. I’m curious, for all those people on here taking the side of the AMPTP, blaming the actors for not trusting them, why were the creatives never compensated once home entertainment started to make the studios money? What makes you all think they’ll do it this time with New Media?
Love ya Nikki, but I do take issue with your negative editorial comments in regard to settling this thing. What would you do in the negotiating room at this point? Pragmatism prevailed over Idealism.
What else was SAG left to do? We were backed into a corner being last at the table. Allen and Rosenberg marginalized AFTRA so they went their own way which sealed SAG’s fate. We need to realign with AFTRA and WGA and address these internet issues with a concerted effort next go around. It aint perfect but I’m happy this nonsense is soon to be over and everyone can concentrate on working — at least those of us who do actually work.
-go soak your head Tom Ligon.
It’s a shame that the producers reps want us to lose our homes and futures more than our leadership (?!) and some of our members want to keep them.
Do you really think Nick Counter and Carole Lombardini are worried about their homes and nest eggs?!
From the current Screen Actor magazine page 13 under National Board REJECTS (John T. McGuire):
“We entered this round of negotiations sending an unmistakably clear message that we were ready to make a deal. In an effort to put the town back to work, we agreed to modify the Guild’s bargaining position to bring the Guild in line with the deals made by our sister unions.”
I believe the unmistakably clear message was sent, only it was sent to our membership that White/McGuire and the Task Force have no backbone to handle the job well beyond their scope and abilities. (And I have my bones to pick with R-berg/Allen/Reardon and Connolly too).
I am trying to get everyone I know to go through the pact and tear it to its core, talk to AFTRA members who found out just how good that contract is, and then not throw their hands up in disgust but VOTE!!
We are not the only ones affected by this deal. Agents/managers and others factions of our industry will take the cut too and some will have to close their doors. So in addition to working that second and third job, in your free time you will have to look for representation too.
Times are tough but, like some our parents/grandparents who went through the depression, these are the times we HAVE to be tougher.
I sincerely hope that enough membership finally stands up and says, “I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore!!”
“No deal is better than a bad deal” is great if you’re independently wealthy — which I recognize some are, but most are not. Working for less money is still better than not working as an actor, to me. Is it fair that someone else runs off with a ton of money and you’re left with little? Of course not. But do we call ourselves “prison bitches,” as one poster suggested? Do we moan and cry as if we’re working in the coal mines? Do we shut the whole business down, which is what a strike essentially does (or at least hopes to do)? Maybe it’s just me — I’m used to sacrificing a lot in order to be an actor. I moved to L.A. from the midwest 20 years ago. I don’t own a home and don’t have kids — but would like to. It’s sometimes terribly painful to be an actor who is not super-successful. At the same time, many of my experiences working have been the best of times for me. I just want to work. Frankly, I find it more annoying that there are locals in states like MI taking jobs that I feel I’ve done more to earn. Hollywood has gone to them thanks to the shortsightedness of CA politicians. I find the loss of those jobs more annoying than the monies I may not be receiving from YouTube. Last year I worked 11 jobs. So far, this year I’ve worked 0. I just want to work. Can we just get back to work — if that’s even possible given all that’s been lost?
I agree with Tucker and appreciate his thoughtful well-reasoned and informed post.
Man, all you do is complain.
The deal will pass. Everyone is so sick of your malaise it is staggering.
GET A LIFE!
No one is destroying anyones life. You hold the power to your own destiny. Not the AMPTP, or anyone else. What have you all been smoking?
The fact that we even have the opportunity to realign with the other guilds is the best thing we have to gain.
Once again I say, if you dont like the contract you dont have to work. Call your agents, assuming you still have one, and tell them you wont audition until there is a contract in place that you are comfortable working under.
Pathetic, truly pathetic.
We as Americans voted Bush into office twice choosing to to live in ignorance, instead of educating ourselves. We sat on our hands and watched our nation’s finances crumble.
Hopefully we’ve been awakened and will now do some research before we vote, instead of merely going along with the line of least resitence to further our demise.
Remember all those passengers on the Posidien chanting “Life is in the bow” as they headed for their demise?
AP is reporting SAG gave up the internet fight.
I’m not saying vote NO.
I’m saying educate yourself and don’t trust the Bushes and the AIGs and the Bank Loan Officers simply because it’s the easy thing to do or some ignorant neighbor is shouting un-informed nonsense.
I am saying if you educate yourself you will vote no.
I’m so thankful that the actors took 10 months to accomplish nothing. I bet all those people who lost their savings as well as their roofs above their heads waiting for a resolution are extreamly thankful you guys accomplished nothing.
Way to go SAG, are your heads finally out of your asses?
“I hope this is true. If an agreement is presented at this plenary, there will be a chance for the membership to vote. There will be a 25% no vote on the National Board so there will be a Con Statement included with the ballot. Finally, we will find out if the membership is as stupid as New York, the Regional Branch Division and the AMPTP think they are.
For those of us who make our living from one day player job to the next, a contract without residuals will not fly.
Comment by Terrence Beasor”
Terrence, you know how much it kills me to agree with you, but when you’re dead to bang accurate I feel I must acknowledge it.
To Tom Ligon:
Sorry that you’re not working enough to generate a current redisual income stream, so therefore, you won’t miss something that you’re not earning anyway.
Despite all the contract bashing echoing through the blogs, my guess is that it will pass easily with at least 75% of votes. I’m not saying that this lousy contract should win approval, only that it will.
Comment by Stephen — April 18, 2009 @ 9:03 am“No deal is better than a bad deal” is great if you’re independently wealthy — which I recognize some are, but most are not. Working for less money is still better than not working as an actor, to me. I’m used to sacrificing a lot in order to be an actor. I moved to L.A. from the midwest 20 years ago. I don’t own a home
YOUR A FOOL !!!! 20 years working and you have nothing.
Well vote for this contract and you can work 20 more and still have nothing. Grow up and have some balls. Its guys like you that the producers love, because they have mansions, and fast cars all from your hard work and low pay. Good Job!!
Can we all just get to work now?
@ “Stephen”,
Your quote of “no deal is better than a bad deal” is a bit out of context. What that quote means is “no deal, for a short time, is better than a bad deal forever”.
Now, “no deal” might mean what we’re currently doing with no contract in place, which sucks for everyone involved. It might mean a strike, which sucks even more. Both of those options, as costly as they are, are better than the loss of our entire futures (which is what the “bad deal” part means).
Working for (immensely) less money long-term is not better than working (or not) for no money now. Nobody has to be “independently wealthy” to weather a strike. Yes, people have had to find ways to live more frugally (as have I) during this entire economic downturn, and I know some people have lost valuable assets. But let’s all remember that it’s not the fault of SAG. I would say, fairly, that lack of a SAG TV/Theatrical contract (meaning the threat of a strike) has slowed feature film production. But that factor is not nearly the biggest negative in the industry slow-down equation. (If it were, the moguls would have done something about it by now.) As I said in a previous post, enough time has now elapsed that all guild members and ancillary businesses have a better understanding of what’s going on and what’s at stake.
Should we (SAG) even get to the point of a real strike, it shouldn’t last long. The AMPTP knows what’s fair and what’s not – they know this contract offer is ridiculous – and they’re not willing to screw themselves out of next year’s movie slate for something that’s unlikely to happen (ie, SAG eating this shit sandwich of a contract offer). The AMPTP doesn’t want a strike any more than anybody else. A strike would kill them for now and for upcoming SAG projects – and they know it, no matter how much they preen around acting as if they’re not worried about it. Which is why they’re loath to let it happen. Nick Counter’s ego is out of the room now, so that might make space for a more moderate approach to our union’s demands.
A strike authorization would make them shit their pants. I think we should offer them one.
Best thing for the SAG board to do now is to send out the Strike Authorization ballot in the same envelope with the contract ratification ballot. Membership can then pick one or the other, because that’s about where we are. Enough of this sitting on the fence shit.
And @ “Boycott SAG”, you’re looking at an outcome and blindly listening to propaganda from a certain camp because it suits your position. You can stop pushing the losses of industry professionals on our (SAG’s) shoulders, please. And even if SAG had much to do with that, you might do some reading and see why we haven’t signed (or even been offered) a fair contract yet – and whose fault is that?
SAG out to be embarrassed at themselves. (The leaders.)
I know we’re all commenting out of speculation but if it IS similar to the AFTRA deal, what have we gained? NOTHING. All these months of projects being put off because of “Strike” fears and Movie Stars taking lead TV roles and Guest Stars taking Co-Star roles will have been for naught.
It’s funny how all those saying “SAG Mems should get over it so they can get back to work” seem to be from production side who didn’t care so much when the Writers went on strike looking for more.
And how did THAT work out?
Do some reading, folks.
The WGA is saying the Producers aren’t making good on their promises.
As for “Taking this deal and re-attacking again in 3 years?”
Yeah, the Producers (who are actually the Studios – Don’t kid yourselves) are known for always making good on past promises when they promise to “Make it right in the future.”
This is a shambles if it’s the AFTRA agreement.
How many Pilots went AFTRA this year? I wonder why? Could it be their criminal rates for actors and a lack of any decent commission structure? – Hmmmm…
Your ONE TIME fee for a Disney Channel show buys Disney 14 days (I think) of free re-runs over a year or a year and a half. Not 14 airings…14 DAYS. So they can run your episode on a 24 hour loop for 14 days over the year and a half and not pay you a penny.
Nice, huh?
Did Hannah Montana make any money at the box office recently?
Yeah…A little.
If they trumpet a “win” as letting the contract expire when it should have instead of being “extended” that’s no victory at all. That’s taking it in the can now AND then.
Let’s hope these fears are all wrong.
Is it really better to work for less money than to not work at all? Is it Stephen? I’ve made a living acting for over a decade. I’m 42. If I have to go get a second job to continue my life as an actor in LA, if they have finally taken away my ability to have a middle class career from acting, then I say we strike. Not because it will accomplish anything, but for the damage it will do. Let’s shut the town down. Our union is belly up anyway. Who cares?
It’s a bad deal and SAG will regret it. I’m reminded of the state energy crisis 6 or 7 years ago when everyone went so crazy over their high energy bills that they demanded the state DO SOMETHING NOW IMMEDIATELY. The state politicians, ever mindful of their howling constituencies, proceeded to sign a massively horrible deal that blew up in their faces a few years later when it all turned out to be an Enron-manipulated energy shortage. It eventually cost Gray Davis his job. Eventually this will cost SAG too, but that’s what the howling masses demanded when they voted out their previous administration for being too mean to the poor AMPTP. Ah well.
“Who are these dumbasses who keep saying “Vote yes, lets get back to work!” The studios haven’t curtailed production because of the protracted negotiations. Anybody who thinks that suddenly a flood of new productions will start after this contract is ratified is either stupid or a studio shill trolling the boards.
Comment by Hank Yablonski — April 18, 2009 @ 12:38 am”
Well, I hope the crap deal you’re gonna suck up was worth thousands of crew people suffering for a year. THERE WAS a huge pile of MONEY for productions in August (remember 2008?) You wanna keep fighting? Where the hell is your strike authorization vote? You never had the numbers and you won’t have them now. All you dig, SAG, was to show the whole country what great hardball negotiators you are not. I have no sympathy for any of your that get screwed when this is ratified and it WILL be ratified. I do, however, have sympathy for the crew people and others who make their living from production who have all suffered great losses so you clowns could eventually take it up the rear.
Thanks. Good luck on the set! Remember Keaton getting spit upon?
It won’t matter what the board thinks. It’s over for them. The membership will reject it anyway.I feel bad for the studios and producers who have sealed their fate. Various members of various guilds will come together and create their own streaming content with far less cost and will jointly share the profits. No need for networks or studios although the shareholders will make some very good money on real estate.
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(Hope those tags worked out as there’s no preview.)
I really don’t understand why more people aren’t seriously considering this option. Do you really need studios anymore? There isn’t anybody standing between you and an audience these days. We’re right here.
You don’t really need a lot of frills to capture us either, if that’s what’s holding you back. Your craft didn’t start out with million-dollar special effects and soundtracks and sets – it started out in theaters, on stages. Some of the best stuff I’ve ever seen was done on a simple little stage. Well, now you have the simple little internet.
There are writers I love so much that even if their work was acted out with hand puppets, I’d pay to watch it. There are actors I love so much that even if they just stood there reciting their grocery list, I’d pay to watch it. (And I’m not even kidding there. I would literally pay good money to watch Michael Emerson read his grocery list once a week.) Not that you have to pare it down quite that much, but my point is you probably don’t need all the trappings that you think you need.
If I were one of you I would be organizing a central place to brainstorm how you can use New Media to your own advantage, instead of begging the studios for their spare change.
All of the comments here are overwhelmingly against the proposed deal. Almost all SAG members posting here claim they will vote against it.
That is a clear indication that the proposed deal WILL PASS.
Overwhelmingly.
The Internet. Still a great contra-indicator.
To anonymous who calls me a fool:
“They have mansions and fast cars because of you!” (–really? — Fast cars? is that your thing? is that what this is about? You need a fast car? Wow. And you have the audacity to tell me to grow up?). I’m sure this will be very difficult for you to understand, but I didn’t become an actor for fast cars and mansions. And — now this is going to really come as a surprise to you — I don’t think my work specifically has resulted in the success of a single TV show or movie I’ve appeared in. I actually think they could have hired someone else for the same job, and the show or movie would have survived just fine without me. What a fool I am. Unlike you, who believes your work buys mansions and fast cars for producers. You should have your agent negotiate a better contract if that’s the case. You can do that you know, if you’re a big enough.
Ace:
Fine, change the quote I responded to. Now it’s, “No deal for a short time is better than a bad deal.” What’s a short time? How long will it last? It’s been since June of last year that we’ve been waiting. You say that if we strike now it probably won’t last long. So, what’s the entire time frame where people can’t work? Will it have been a year? If SAG strikes for as long as it’s taken for them to decide whether or not to strike then it will be a year and a half total. It could be more. You don’t know. You don’t think “live more frugally” sounds a little unsympathetic given how much people are already suffering? Perhaps they should get an interim job, right? In CA the unemployment rate is now close to 12%. TV series is now AFTRA, which will rid many of health insurance. There are fewer movies shooting right now in Los Angeles than at any other time in Hollywood’s history. I actually don’t believe signing a contract will put people in Los Angeles back to work because I think there are some bigger problems, but it might help at least a little. Is there any point where you might finally say, “it’s costing too much. Let’s regroup and fight this fight later.”
And Ace, I don’t care how much or how little SAG is to blame. I just want a resolution that helps more than hurts people. Weighing that right now, I believe prolonging this further only does more damage to the greater number of lives.
Are there glasses or contacts for shortsightedness…if there are, then please send them to the Board Members of SAG…they simply can’t see their nose to spite their face. Vote NO, please.
You want to get some attention Scott Wilson? Go picket Tom Hanks’ house. Seriously. You want some serious press to show up? Call him out on his bullshit – at the front gates of his mansion in Malibu, or wherever. See how Tom does when he comes out to debate you in front of a camera. He should be able to do that, since he has publicly sided with the moderate SAG appeasers and the suits right? He’s made his position clear, from the day he said at an early meeting: “I don’t care if you get paper or plastic on the set – just take the director’s deal.”
Wow. That’s loyalty. That’s proof positive he doesn’t just PLAY heroes – he is a real live one.
Make his life fucking miserable. Hold him up for what he is – an ass-kissing, suit sucking, union buster.
Nice guy?
Bullshit. He may play them in the movies, but he hasn’t done a goddamn thing for the middle-class actor.
And he’s just the tip of the star-berg.
@ PB
Yes, it is better to work for less money than to not work at all. Getting a paycheck, no matter how small it is, helps insure that I can pay my rent for another month. Otherwise I’d have to pack up my bags and leave, like so many others already have.
As for your comment to call for a strike “Not because it will accomplish anything, but for the damage it will do. Let’s shut the town down. Our union is belly up anyway. Who cares?” all I can say is, Wow… You really have no respect for the crew, do you? We’re on set long before you show up and are still toiling away when you leave for the day. We get paid less and work harder just to make you look good on camera and for you to say “Let’s shut the town down. Who cares?” shows just how much you don’t give a shit about the others who are trying to survive and put food on the table for their families.
@ David — April 18, 2009 @ 9:48 am: You said, “The fact that we even have the opportunity to realign with the other guilds is the best thing we have to gain.”
And, “Once again I say, if you dont like the contract you dont have to work.”
SAG members, don’t be fooled by this shill’s rant. It’s patently false.
Having the ‘opportunity’ to align with the other guilds is NOT the best thing we have to gain. That’s a weak cop-out and no educated member of SAG really believes that. Getting contract term-ending for 2011 back (a turd which shouldn’t have even been floated in the first place) was a no-brainer. From SAG’s point of view, that’s what the AMPTP would call a “non-starter”.
And further, fellow SAG members, don’t just ignore the contract if you don’t like it – if you don’t like the contract then vote NO on it. Make an effort! Make your voice heard! Don’t just “not work it”, as ‘David’ has suggested.
There are HUGE losses for SAG members in this contract with regards to new media. (And force majeure, if that’s still in there, among other issues.) Don’t be fooled by so-called fellow members who suggest that you’re lucky to have what you have. That’s pure AMPTP spin.
Hey Cat:
people are already doing this. The internet is rife with produced material. There’s only one problem, how do you make any money off of it? The huge internet video phenoms are generally done for free, as a lark. Even the ones that have big stars have no compensation for these big stars. Although maybe there was a craft services table. Or maybe not.
the idea that there’s some giant pot of money out there and all the guilds have to do is to start producing their own stuff and they’ll be showered in gold is completely insane. Do you really think the professional accountants and businessmen at the studios haven’t already crunched the numbers on this a thousand times? They use the internet as a promotional platform. For them, it’s free promo designed to drive you back to the platforms that actually make a buck….film and television. Maybe all this will change but if it does it’s not going to benefit the guilds…and not because of their contracts, but because there’s just less money in all of it.
The real way for actors to change the business is to become producers. And many of them have. Although look at what Matt Mulhern rants about Tom Hanks in the above post. An actor goes and has the balls and the intelligence and the creativity to truly and successfully takes the reins of production and we just hate him for it. Ain’t life grand?
RALLY Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11am–2pm
at The Saylor Co
202 S Lake Ave.
Pasadena at SE corner of Lake and Cordova.
How good can the contract be if they need a “crisis” management PR firm to sell it?
IF WE ACCEPT THIS CONTRACT WE WILL BE THE ONES IN CRISIS:
CRISIS: Thousands of our members will lose health coverage and pension benefits
CRISIS: The fractional pension improvement, one-half of one percent, will be more than wiped out by losses in the move over of 14.8% in contributions to P&H
CRISIS: We lose up to $400 million in network residuals from move over to streaming
CRISIS: They get 17 to 24 days of free streaming then pay $23.58 for 6 months of constant streaming
CRISIS: Pre 1971 movies: no residuals in New Media
CRISIS: Pre 1974 tv series: no residuals in New Media
CRISIS: Non-union production in New Media
CRISIS: Product Integration: 2 jobs – 1 paycheck
CRISIS: Clip consent: As a condition of employment we lose control of name, voice and likeness
YES WE HAVE A CRISIS. WE WILL BE UNABLE TO EARN A LIVING IF THESE ROLLBACKS ARE ACCEPTED
VOTE NO ON THE CONTRACT
SHOW UNITY & COME TO THE RALLY