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SAG STATEMENT CORRECTING AN ERRONEOUS WIRE SERVICE REPORT
Los Angeles (January 22, 2009) - This statement is being issued to correct an erroneous wire report flashed today, January 22, 2009. Screen Actors Guild has taken no action to suspend the national board of directors’ October 19 resolution regarding the strike authorization referendum.National Executive Director Doug Allen has proposed to the national board that the strike authorization referendum be suspended and that management's offer be put to the membership in a ratification vote after meeting with the AMPTP to determine to what extent, if any, they are willing to improve their last offer, to maximize its chances for ratification.
The National Board has not yet acted on Allen’s proposal.
SAG’s national board of directors has not suspended the strike authorization referendum and the board’s October 19 resolution is the last national board decision on this matter.
The resolution can be read here http://www.sag.org/press-releases/october-19-2008/sag-board-directors-votes-request-federal-mediator-and-send-strike-au.
Doug Allen’s compromise proposal can be read here http://www.sag.org/important-message-doug-allen.
SAG Corrects Erroneous Media Report: No Suspension Of Strike Authorization Vote
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So… you haven’t suspended the strike authorization vote, but… you had a date set to send it out and then didn’t send it out because east and west coast couldn’t agree whether it was a good idea or not? Um. Technically, that’s pretty much the definition of suspending.
Hear that sound? The last nail in the coffin. How can SAG have any credibility after this blunder?
Internal conflicts create external collapse.
Just proven that the union structure is antiquated and self destructive.
Make a damn decision so the rest of us can move along.
ALERT! ALERT!! ALERT!!!
Please disregard any media reports you might have heard! Let us be very clear! The media is mistaken if they think we’ve done a goddamned thing since October 19th. Let us be clear: WE HAVEN’T DONE SHIT SINCE OCTOBER 19TH.
Sorry for the confusion. You might have thought that we’ve been working for our membership, but please know: We will continue this in-fighting indefinitely at the expense of both SAG members and the entirety of individuals relying on a healthy industry to make a living.
Very glad we could clear up this confusion.
In solidarity,
A bunch of blowhards.
JUST…FRAKKIN’…DO…SOMETHING! GOOD GOD.
Let’s be REALISTICALLY clear: Many months ago, SAG leadership was presented with an unsignable contract. Other unions made their own decisions. SAG KNOWS the contract, as is, is a killer for the middle-class actor. In fact, there’s relative agreement on that.
The AMPTP wouldn’t get off the dime and actually negotiate AT ALL. For months.
During this period, the usual suspects withing SAG, smelled an opportunity – the so-called “moderates.”
Start blaming the messenger – SAG leadership – for not getting an ungettable deal, given the AMPTP’s intransigence, and start pushing, through a newly named faction, Unite For Strength, that same old chesnut – merger with AFTRA.
Continue to vote WITH the leadership to cover your political asses (every single vote of the national board and the negotiating committee was overwhelmingly to continue to fight for a better deal, to send out a strike authorization, to adhere to core principals, etc.,) BUT, at the same time, do EVERYTHING you can to undermine the SAG leadership in an attempt to use this contract, which is an assault on ALL actors,as a wedge to divide the union (how Rovian) and to, hopefully, emerge with SAG so weakened that UFS can rush in to fill that political void, and fast track merger with AFTRA.
This has been stated publicly, by both James Cromwell and Gabrielle Carteris, of UFS.
The simple fact that these people are now, after botching firing an NED whose only sin has been fighting to get a signable contract that doesn’t cripple actors, possibly for good, trying to thwart Doug Allen’s compromise to, put aside the Strike Authorization vote, and send out the contract for an up or down vote by the MEMBERSHIP – exposes the heart of UFS’s “plan.”
Weaken SAG, merge with AFTRA. THIS contract? For them, it’s secondary to a grander political scheme, one which has been voted down 16 times since 1939. Merger.
The fire should be directed two places: the AMPTP, for this brazen attack on the middle-class actor and on SAG, AND, UFS and their allies, who have turned from the absolute need for unity and solidarity, to the exposure of their true agenda: control of the union to destroy the union and merge with AFTRA, to supposedly gain enough “leverage” to go back and recover from the AMPTP all the things they were so willing to give away.
That is despicable behavior, and I believe the SAG membership is beginning to see it come into focus.
Pick the phrase which most aptly describes a group of SAG leaders:
1. Confederacy of Dunces
2. Ship of Fools
3. Clown Chamber
4. 25-Watt Bulb Valu Pak
5. All of the Above
SAG, get your shit together!
okay Rabble, Rabble…you just made me spit up my morning cereal. Hilarious. as Karen would say on “Will and Grace”, “It’s funny cuz it’s true.”
If it were up to the SAG Hollywood leadership the strike authorization vote would have gone out a long time ago. but the handful of Unite for Strength Board members from Hollywood and the mainly the New York and the Regional Branches wouldn’t let it go out. The same for SAG’s NED’s proposal to let the membership vote to ratify the last offer of the AMPTP. This same group won’t let that happen either. SAG is being held hostage.
The ego’s of the SAG Board Members from New York, notably one named Paul Christie whom is quoted in variety have caused the petty anti-Hollywood bias to hold the WHOLE INDUSTRY hostage, until they get their way.
What they want has nothing to do with the contract either. What they want it for SAG to be run from New York with a NED picked by them, who will move their agenda on a SAG-AFTRA merger forward. Its become about control of SAG and ego’s not the TV-Theatrical contract. Its become absurd.
The most absurd thing, is that most of this group from outside of Hollywood has never ever worked on a prime time TV show or a Theatrical Motion Picture in their lives, believe it or not. Many are also AFTRA Board members. They are mostly the “funny voice” guys. And they are complete ego driven nuts, fighting over something they have nothing to do with.
Here is a petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/SAG90210/petition.html
Could SAG be more of a joke? It’s mind-blowing.
I’m so sick of this back and forth bullshit. tell me, who the hell are we supposed to believe? we’re worse than a bunch of 12 year olds on the f’ing playground.
true indie,
you’re right that internal conflicts create external problems.
But, the union structure is NOT antiquated and self destructive when run properly.
what our leaders are guilty of the most, among other things, IS FAILING TO LEAD. you can’t have any organization, or union, or guild, or company, if you don’t have leaders that lead. all they have succeeded in is being a divisive tornado of bullshit. we never know from day to day what way the wind is blowing. they have not shown me, a working sag member, that they are looking out for the “union”, or it’s “members”. they can tell me they are all they want, but if they were, they would act like a real union (A FAMILY), and handle there differences behind closed doors and come together as one.
i guess that’s something that they’re not interested in.
SAG’s paralyzing fear of capitulating vs. striking leads SAG’s leadership to the dark valley of no action, no decisions which is, in reality, an action and decision of death for SAG. Decide NOW before this hemorrhage has gone beyond saving!
Geez, Allen and Rosenberg make Bush and Cheney look like geniuses… are you actors REALLY trusting your careers and your futures to these nimrods? Yikes, and I thought we writers were stupid. Wow, you make us look like… well, I can’t think of anyone dumb enough to make that comparison.
I’m I the only one who misses the days when it was the -AMPTP-’s press releases who sucked royal ass, and ours were comparitively decent, rather than the other way around?
I guess all the infighters on both sides figured our last shot at immediately visible leverage was the Oscars, so we better make sure we squandered that.
I gotta say, though, at least in L.A., that rumored “production pipeline” that was going to start spitting out projects that have been long held up is nowhere to be found on the streets of L.A. If “producers will call SAG’s bluff and get back to making film” wasn’t total b.s., I sure haven’t seen any evidence -yet- this year.
2009’s film release charts are skanky enough. Delay followed by delay is soon going to make the 2010 film roster be variations of “Producer’s Dogs Ass, 3D” for each of the summer 2010 studio tent poles. No way in hell is it only performers and crew that are getting nailed by the defacto lock out. Producers continue to dig a film release graveyard.
It’s like watching a slow motion train wreck, only the train has jumped the tracks and is plowing through your house. You can see the engineers fighting for control – too late. And it is the longest train ever…
Um, no, CTSadler, that’s the definition of a “delay”. A suspension makes it go away. Which it hasn’t (but still might).
True Indie, it’s not SAG’s blunder. Can you read?
And Rabble, I know you think you’re funny – but you’re not. There is actually confusion – brought on by the mogul-sucking media. And lots has been done since October, as you well know. You and Michael Richards should get together and do a stand-up roadshow.
First everyone busts on SAG NegCom for not doing any and everything to avoid a strike. And when NegCom and the entire board tries everything to avoid a strike – and this takes time because they all have to vote on it – they get busted on again. This is exactly why SAG members like myself don’t “listen” to people like you. You have nothing to offer but negative criticism, usually founded on incorrect or misinterpreted “information”, and without offering any viable alternative suggestions. It’s easy to point a finger and say, “Hey you! Do it better!” But unless you have a better answer (under the circumstances) – a better way of doing it – you’re nothing but a loudmouth.
In this news note, SAG simply corrected a mistake by the media to clear up some misinformation, for chrissakes. They didn’t announce a feature film embargo on Syria. Pretty much a non-story.
We all wish that the AMPTP would figure out and accept that SAG isn’t going down without a fight (even a bloody one), and offer a moderately improved contract. Which, as we all know, would get the entire industry back to work; people again being able to afford to keep their families fed and clothed; people again being able to survive, etc. But greed blinds people to what’s really important, so the rich moguls sit in their ivory tower and pull the strings of their negotiator puppets (AMPTP) so they don’t get sullied in the bloodletting below. Let’s not forget who’s causing this impasse.
You non-SAG commenters want SAG to care about you – to not “be selfish” in this negotiation, and to “take one for the team”? Do you think the moguls care one whit that you’re working or not? Do you think they care if they produce a film in Canada to save a few bucks? Do you think they care that shooting in New Mexico or Louisiana or Prague harms the industry here at home?
There’s your lack of work.
Remember that if feature projects aren’t getting greenlit, it’s the producers who aren’t greenlighting them (along with completion bond companies), not SAG. They’re making that decision based on the outcome of another choice they made (to stand firm on a shit contract offer to SAG). Any TV shows that are “going AFTRA” (supposedly because of SAG’s lack of a contract) were going AFTRA anyway. Sucks for SAG to not be able to low-ball its members into bankruptcy and destitution (by using the AFTRA playbook), but that’s how we roll.
When this is all over, SAG will have taken a very intense look at itself and we will figure out a way to get back to doing what we do – provide talent for entertainment. We are not going away, and this contract (in whatever form it ends up) will not kill SAG. We will also, most likely, have that better contract because of the work our NegCom has done and still will do. In that sense, all of this will have been worth it.
What on Earth is going ON over there?!? It’s like the two hands are trying to clap alone. SAG, get your act together! The congloms will ALWAYS have the upper hand if U are bickering internally like this (like U did with AFTRA e.g.) and make U weaker. Help out your friggin constituency, not yourselves!
“What on Earth is going ON over there?!?”
What’s going on, sadly, is the end of SAG.
At first it was humorous. Then it was irritating. Then it was frustrating.
But then… well then it became infuriating, when they were zealously and incessantly beating the let’s-go-on-strike-that’ll-fix-’em! drum.
Then it was slightly amusing, but more frustrating when all the infighting started happening.
Then it was wonderment, when AFTRA started mopping up nearly all TV pilot coverage. That is, PRIMETIME TV pilots, not soaps. Shows that were always the jurisdiction of SAG were now going to become HD-shooting, AFTRA-covered shows. And SAG didn’t get it. They still don’t. That’s the real tragedy here: By stalling and insisting that they couldn’t sign the contract and deal with it again in three years, they have self-destructed.
Frankly, I don’t know what the hell the point is of even holding a SAG card anymore. The TV schedule was a bread and butter market for SAG’s membership. If they all have to get an AFTRA card in order to work, because there is no more work available through SAG coverage, then what’s the point? Sure, there will still be a few shows on the air that are relics of the SAG-covered days. But they won’t last forever. Make no mistake, they are dinosaurs. Especially when the networks and studios can cheaply pump out more and more pilots every year under the less expensive AFTRA contracts and HD-shooting. And, as far as other projects out there that are under SAG’s jurisdiction, what is there? Maybe a grand maximum of 50 feature projects a year? OK. So how are SAG’s 200K+ members going to get work on those few feature projects?
SAG was one of the resounding voices in guaranteeing its own membership a high quality of comfort and fair treatment in the work place. And, by extension, they benefited others as well. The most stunning tragedy is that, in their determination not to have their union broken, it was that very determination which ALLOWED their union to be broken. And they still just can’t see it.
I hope something can turn it around.
Ace, please note above comment. I made somebody spit up breakfast cereal. Now, I’ve never been much of a Will & Grace fan, but it was on the air for awhile, so while I may not be -ahem- funny, I do have a smug sense of satisfaction right now.
Furthermore, I believe suspend and delay are actually synonyms. Call me crazy, but I think most would agree.
Now, jokes aside, SAG leadership somehow thinks this heel-dragging, in-fighting indecisiveness is somehow acceptable and will somehow translate into a business model that will provide life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all involved parties. I may not have any experience negotiating union contracts, but excuse me, that’s fucking stupid. And by the transitive properties of fucking stupidity, through your bottomless defense of these tactics, you’re sounding pretty fucking stupid yourself.
But if you want to keep up the garrulous posts that we should burn the studios down for watching the bottom line, you misunderstand economics. Unions protect the workers, the laborers. The studios watch the bottom line. Now, through neglect & idiocy, SAG has allowed a bit of a fire to start, and while they claim they’re trying to put out the flames, they’re really just pissing down their legs.
Hey, that’s just my opinion. And while I may not be a member of SAG, I do make my living off of this industry, so I do have a stake in these affairs, and am more than ready to see our industry, our state, and our lives flourish once again. Maybe I’m crazy. Who knows. Cheers.
At this point I suspect that the only way to get Hollywood back on track is for SAG members to ratify the contract. Anything else simply leaves it to warring internal factions to play games indefinitely.
This all would make a great tragic farce on the Lifetime network. With AFTRA actors, of course.
There was nothing inaccurate in the AP wire story. All it said was that the strike authorization lacked board support. It expressly noted that no formal action had been taken to suspend the strike authorization process.
So, what exactly was SAG correcting?
Can I read? I’ve been reading and waiting since October – when the last move was made.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Hey Ace,
SUSPENSION
1: the act of suspending : the state or period of being suspended: as a: temporary removal (as from office or privileges) b: temporary withholding (as of belief or decision) c: temporary abrogation of a law or rule
Hope that clears it up for you.
We all dig the long winded explanations you SAGgies give for why you’ve been holding up this contract for seven months; and we’ve been hearing them for that long. You are not going to get a better contract; why? Because your leadership and negotiating strategy has been an ABSOLUTE failure with EPIC levels of arrogance and incompetency. Your guild is going to sign the contract the day they get it in the mail if only because the actual WORKING portion of your guild has been starving since the writer’s strike. Is there any wonder why no one has seen the pro-strike contingent of your union on screen for the past decade?
Okay, I admit it. I’m confused. What are we voting on, and when?
ARE YOU ALL HIGH?
You never had the votes for a strike, EVER!!! Before Doug Allen and his misteps, before UFS, before everything. That is why they kept having those town hall meetings, MF continually IGNORING the vast majority of the membership and pushing for a strike.
Now you all think the membership is suddenly having a change of heart and coming around? Who the hell are you talking to? MF that is who. NO ONE IS WITH YOU. Geez, I cannot believe how blind these people are.
I easily would have voted for a strike, 9 F#@$ing months ago. I think everyone would have been behind it. This theory that everyone is responsible for this except for the negotiators is a JOKE! Talk about drinking the koolaid. The people that arent with
you are not all UFS, they are everyday actors that are
so tired of all of this they could puke.
MF lost their ability to call a strike 8 years ago after the ill fated commercial strike. Every damn week it is something new, and no action. They cant even get a press release right, let alone negotiate a contract.
I am sure it makes for great conversation after your weekend production of Glass Menagerie at the Hudson on Santa Monica, but you NEVER HAD THE VOTES!!
I know, I know. I am just an absolute shill, idiot, nobody that doesnt agree with you therefore I should have no opinion. Someone like ACE is going to accuse me of not knowing how to debate. Someone like matt mulhern is going to insinuate I dont know how to read and couldnt possibly comprehend the “unsignable contract”. Go ahead, cut me down all over the place because I just dont care. That is the only thing they do know how to do, cut down call names and ignore.
This blissful idiot is heading to the gym, having a nice dinner with friends, shooting new headshots next week, and look so forward to the day that MF is out of there.
@ Ace and Matt Mulhern,
Thank you for being two sane voices in these comments. You are both entirely correct, no matter how much the other posters ignore your facts.
hank, you don’t need to be told who to believe. you need to read the proposed contract. do you really want your sag leadership to accept a contract like that? do you really think the amptp has honorable intentions? do you really believe the sag leadership is behaving irresponsibly for not accepting a deliberately horrible contract?
the contract speaks for itself. once you understand the contract, you’ll know who to believe.
Earth to Doug Allen: The Eagle has landed.
What the hell are they waiting for then?
Let’s get the party started (and over with!)
Joe Brown said – “The most absurd thing, is that most of this group from outside of Hollywood has never ever worked on a prime time TV show or a Theatrical Motion Picture in their lives, believe it or not.”
Wow… you’ve just described most of SAG. Just because we live in Hollywood doesn’t mean we have been on prime time OR in a major motion picture. But to say that just because someone ISN’T in Hollywood they couldn’t possibly have worked in prime time or on a major motion picture is ridiculous.
To equate being in NY and other areas as being a lesser member of SAG is just absurd. It’s the same anti-AFTRA crap that got us here in the first place.
STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE!!!!
It’s time to STOP FIGHTING and GET SOMETHING THAT ALL MEMBERS CAN GET BEHIND!
Look what happened when MF took on AFTRA? We now have a competing union that USED TO BE AN ALLY. If MF and U4S keep fighting we will further be entrenched in the “divide us and win” lunacy that has been prevalent for 10 years.
SAG members and SAG BOARD MEMBERS need to find COMMON GROUND. U4S can’t fire Doug Allen and MF can’t get a strike authorization. But as long as MF remains in control of the negotiating committee THE CONTRACT STANDS A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF PASSING because there are enough people who don’t trust MF to get the deal done at all.
We are in a stalemate position. If MF and U4S can’t come together, the AMPTP wins and actors lose.
ACE – God bless you for being a true believer but what fight has SAG got left that anyone can respect? This concept of SAG not going down without a bloody, messy fight is a truly disgusting proposition.
When all this blood that you’re so comfortable spilling might’ve been spilled to some purpose, our leadership was…get this…trying to defeat AFTRA’s deal. Why? Because SAG’s leaders were too incompetant and ideologically entrenched to find common cause with our sister union (but hey, like everything else it’s THEIR fault).
Now that all that is in the past all the deals with all the guilds long signed, NOW we’re going to spill blood? NOW?
And btw, if you think those TV shows were “going AFTRA anyway” you are living in an echo chamber. Talk to some TV studio execs. No one had any real interest in rocking any guild boats until SAG gave them the opportunity. People fear SAG now, not because they’re strong, but because they’re volatile and out of touch with reality.
What’s with SAG doing their Keystone Cops routine? Pathetic. And what a bunch of drama queens. Too busy throwing a I’m-off-to-my-trailer tantrum to do their job.
Hey Ace…..rehearse these lines…..”would you like to Super Size that?”…..I hear they are hiring…..bring on the Working Actors Guild….rip SAG.
I find it amazing that Limbo Again still wants to “Imagine” that we will “come together right now” or the AMPTP wins…
This is ludicrous. Either let SAG vote or not.
Why are you fixated on “coming together?” It ain’t gonna happen. And no one cares whether the board comes together or not.
Let the membership have the contract, review it, and vote on it…
Get over it, Limbo. This is not The Good Ship Lollipop.
As a non-actor non-SAG member who’s been observing this issue, I want to compliment Matt Mulhern, Sue West, Sterling Wolfe and the very few others who SIGNED THEIR REAL NAMES to their posts.
The rest of you, whatever side you’re on, are sniveling gutless weasels. If you’re so impassioned about this issue, SIGN YOUR NAMES! Stop with the idiotic monikers and nicknames you sign by. AMPTP will never take any of you seriously when you hide in the shadows like a bunch of spineless cowards. There are actors who sign their names to letters sent to the studios yet you chickens won’t even sign your names to a post on a blog.
Why is that? Why can’t you say “I’m (insert name) and this is how I feel.” It’s so easy for most of you to post some insulting diatribe yet never include your name.
Do you think the studios are going to fear and respect a bunch of whiny twerps who don’t even have the guts to identify themselves? You all shred Nick Counter for being a thug but at least the man signs his name to every dictum he issues, no matter how unfair it is.
As far as I’m concerned, everyone of you Nikki Finke readers who rabidly follow her blog and then eagerly post your opinion without SIGNING YOUR ACTUAL NAME are just a bunch of bitter frustrated cowards.
Grow a pair and SIGN YOUR NAMES. Not signing proves to the studios that you’re afraid of them and would rather sling insults at Messrs. Allen and Rosenberg than get in the executives’ faces.
Losers.
Below is my real name. If anyone of you wants to attack me, feel free. But if you don’t sign your name, you’ll just prove my point.
freddy,
stop spewing you’re propaganda and go back and read what i posted again. i never said, our leadership should accept the proposed contract, I SAID THEY ARE FAILING TO LEAD. i have read the contract, i know it sucks…..EVERYONE knows that it sucks. i think everyone pretty much agrees on that. what they can’t agree on, is how to proceed. and instead of dealing with it internally, the civil war in the media continues-which is dividing and killing our union.
hank
Request to SAG Leadership:
Being an actor, I can see the reasons why the current contract is dangerous and career killing — especially with its unacceptable commercial conflicts. But, please give us some immediate leadership and be firm in the direction we’re taking. Since you are not going to be able to please everyone no matter what you choose to do, then choose to firmly do something — take your best shot, and let people deal with it from there.
The current limbo-land makes things worse, not better, for your membership.
Thank you.
Well, Rabble and CTSadler… My discourse about the use of the words “suspension” and “delay” illustrates a very interesting point throughout all of this rhetoric – point of view, or rather prerogative. SAG-bashers choose from a certain list of vitriolic words to amplify their negative comments. I liken that to “spin”. But in the end none of those cheap shots matter. Very few, if any, of you bashers will have any say-so whatsoever with regards to this contract negotiation. Is that why you sound so damned angry? Some of you refuse to aim your frustrations and blame where it should be – on the AMPTP. And because you choose to take the simplest course and blame SAG for the current industry woes, your point of view(s) are stilted from their inception. And still, they don’t matter. Kinda makes you guys feel a little impotent, huh?
The truth is, the relative minuscule number of us who post on these DHD topics are a very, very small segment of the industry and an even smaller slice of SAG. What we write, positive or negative, has little or no impact on the proceedings and subsequent vote. And our opinions are nowhere near an accurate sampling of real-world views. If I believed, even for a second, you anti-SAGgies (thanks again, CTSadler) were either honest or accurate with your claims of “industry-wide hatred for SAG”, I would do something different than post support here, or have a different point of view. But I do know better. Smart people know better – those people who take the time to educate themselves with facts before sharing their “views” online – and can see why SAG is in the predicament we’re in. Admittedly, some of it is because of current infighting, but I’ll deal with that later.
As for me personally, I have had words put in my mouth (again, on this topic) and have been impersonated (in obvious ways) on other topics. To argue with those who have no dog in this hunt is futile – when it’s not your money your views are not only different, but irrelevant. But they are entertaining. All I attempt to do is to stay with the facts (which are readily available to anyone who goes to the SAG website) and to support my guild’s leadership. And I counter the BS statements that some of you are so anxious to spew at SAG. But I do that with facts, not with emotions or cheap shots at people who have an extremely difficult job to do.
I am a SAG member, and I support my elected officials. That seems so difficult for some of you other SAG members, but that’s what “membership” in a guild means. It ain’t always right; it ain’t always pretty; you don’t always have to agree with other members – but you DO have to support the majority voted-upon referendums, and not subvert SAG management’s attempts to better our guild just because a certain vote didn’t go your way. Union members understand the power of unity to achieve (or perpetuate) fair compensation and working conditions. Why would you be a member of a union/guild – except for a paycheck and benefits – if you’re not willing to fight for those things?
For example: if the NegCom (including Doug Allen and Allen Rosenberg) had the full support of SAG from July 1, do you think we’d be in the predicament we’re now in? With the membership completely behind them, the NegCom could/would have fought for (and won) a much better offer from the AMPTP. (We may have had to strike, and it would have been as costly then as it might be now.) But no, the whiny U4S brigade didn’t like it that they didn’t get their way (win enough seats) on the board elections. So they chose, as a group, to dismantle SAG and the contract negotiations, along with attempting to discredit our own – their own – elected officials.
Some of you who are (literally) screaming at SAG to stop the infighting and “do something” – who are you screaming at? See, it’s easy to just scream at (and blame) SAG as a whole without thinking too much about it. As if your need to thoughtlessly place blame trumps consideration of some obvious facts. You want answers. You want results. Well, me too. But I also know why we’re where we are – which makes it more clear whom to blame (if I had a need to do that). U4S and NY don’t like the path the negotiations are on? They VOTED on the friggin’ negotiation path! They don’t like sending out a SAV? They VOTED to send it out! They wanted the SAG membership to vote on the contract offer, but now they’re holding that up as well!
I think (and hope) that it’s obvious where ALL of the infighting is coming from – and it isn’t the NegCom, and it isn’t the Membership First body. They’ve all been on the same page since day 1.
Look, I’m as frustrated as some of you are with all of this. But instead of ignorant slurs and cheap shots, let’s keep our eye on the ball and remember the larger picture – getting a fair contract from the AMPTP. Okay, so it will take more time. But we’re not striking, are we?
And finally, Rabble, just because one person lost their breakfast while reading your, uh, “humor” doesn’t mean you’re funny. Don’t quit your day job, Shecky.
Mr. Limbo Again and others like him state,
“Blah, blah, blah, blah… we must come up with something the entire membership can support.”
Translation:
“We’re not going to let the membership vote.”
Et tu Brutus?
So, ‘love’s labors lost’, you seem to be unhappy with how the current negotiations are going. And since you sound like you are, and have claimed to be, a SAG member, I’ll respond to your personal response to my comments.
You’re in italics below – I’m not.
ACE – God bless you for being a true believer but what fight has SAG got left that anyone can respect? This concept of SAG not going down without a bloody, messy fight is a truly disgusting proposition. Did I say that SAG wouldn’t go down without a “bloody fight”? No, you’ve misquoted me – you didn’t even paraphrase me well – and it’s obviously to support your next statement:
When all this blood that you’re so comfortable spilling might’ve been spilled… I’m not comfortable about any strike, much less one that turns ugly. But again, it makes me sound eager to shed blood so you’ve misquoted me again. At the very least, you’ve read something into my statement that wasn’t there.
…to some purpose, our leadership was…get this…trying to defeat AFTRA’s deal. Why? Why? Because if AFTRA got their (misrepresented) deal ratified, it would leave SAG weakened and vulnerable. Which has proved true. In hindsight, this tactic has proven to not be a good idea because it didn’t work. But isn’t hindsight always 20/20? As a dual cardholder, I voted ‘no’ on AFTRA’s contract, as did every other SAG member I know or talked to. (I still don’t know who counted those votes.) But despite SAG’s efforts, the thing passed. Water under the bridge.
Because SAG’s leaders were too incompetant [sic] and ideologically entrenched to find common cause with our sister union (but hey, like everything else it’s THEIR fault). Who’s blaming anyone? I’m sure I stated that I wasn’t busting on AFTRA. And further, finding “common cause” has been a continual problem – on both sides. In fact, the last proposed merger with AFTRA had well over 50% of the vote, but it needed another of those super-majority votes to pass. So as you see, most (voting) SAG members do want a merger. Even Alan Rosenberg said publicly he supports it. But no two sides can find “common cause” when one side is intent on capitulating to the merest hint of aggression from a bully. But I digress…
Now that all that is in the past all the deals with all the guilds long signed, NOW we’re going to spill blood? NOW? More with the blood? Seriously? A bit dramatic aren’t we? Also, you may want to check your facts on “all the deals with all the guilds” being long signed. That’s a pure AMPTP spin statement, and it’s false. You’re a SAG member, right? Promise?
And btw, if you think those TV shows were “going AFTRA anyway” you are living in an echo chamber. We’re talking about NEW shows going AFTRA… Talk to some TV studio execs. Have you talked to some TV studio execs? Really? How many? I mean, more than overhearing one conversation in the WB cafeteria? Studio execs have proven time and time again that they will do anything to save a buck – even if it means sacrificing the quality of their TV shows. If they have the opportunity to do a new show under the ridiculously cheap AFTRA contract, there’s no way they’ll choose to go SAG unless the show’s star demands it, or it must be shot on film for some reason. You can’t push that on SAG’s current holdout position. That’s just an inescapable outcome.
No one had any real interest in rocking any guild boats until SAG gave them the opportunity. There’s no “rocking of guild boats” going on. More drama from you. SAG shows cannot be changed to AFTRA. New shows are up for grabs.
People… What “people”, the AMPTP? …fear SAG now, not because they’re strong, but because they’re volatile and out of touch with reality. I don’t believe anyone really “fears” SAG anyway – not that we should be “feared”. We should be respected, though, especially by our own membership. But people like you, over-dramatizing what is not an unheard of contract negotiation impasse, are helping to keep SAG publicly divided. Which weakens your own (stated) union/guild.
I’ll bet that you’ve always been a U4S supporter, right? Who are you really? Sally? Kate? Amy? Mike Farrell? Oh god, you’re not Ned are you?
(Hell, if you are Kate, then you really have been talking to TV studio execs – in bed – haven’t you?)
I don’t know what’s worse, the AMPTP offer or those idiot Allens trying to spin their way out of their own foolishness.
Hello! The SAV *IS* dead.
The majority doesn’t support it. Even MeFirst doesn’t support it any more.
That means it has a constituency of one – Doug Allen. And how long is he going to be around?
My take is that, with AFTRA making its own deal in new media, it cut the legs from under SAG getting the deal it wants in new media. And the AMPTP knows it.
Even if SAG were to get a better deal in new media, producers would just run to produce new media projects under the cheaper AFTRA contract…which is what I understand they are doing RIGHT NOW as AFTRA has a deal in place and SAG does not.
By AFTRA negotiating separately from SAG, the unintended consequence has been to strengthen AFTRA. I don’t think that’s what MF wanted.
It’s unfortunate, but I don’t see that SAG has much negotiating leverage at this point.
“Hey” back at ya’, McHiring. “Hey Ace…..rehearse these lines…..”would you like to Super Size that?”…..I hear they are hiring.
Comment by McHiring — January 23, 2009 @ 4:42 pm
I’d love to rehearse and say those lines – in a national McWhatever commercial. You know why? Because national commercials pay SAG actors very well. And why is that? (Follow along with me here…) Because SAG fought for those rates and conditions, and didn’t just bend over and accept the first shit contract offered by management. The outcome of that contract negotiation is/was that everyone in the ad world is still happy and still makes a tidy profit – on-camera talent included. Exactly the same thing that SAG is standing firm on with the AMPTP’s offer.
So thanks for coming in! Enjoy those McNuggets(tm) with my special dipping sauce…
Ace -
Will you be working on AFTRA shows this spring?
McHiring writes, “Hey Ace…..rehearse these lines…..”would you like to Super Size that?”…..I hear they are hiring…..bring on the Working Actors Guild….rip SAG.”
It’s sad to me that some Americans like McHiring feel comfortable using one persons job to make fun of someone else- as if there is shame in working for a living unless you’re making a multi-million dollar CEO’s wage.
And while I realize it’s more of a window into those person’s slinging the insults self hatred than it is to the person they’re trying to insult, it does bring up an interesting topic.
When did it become shameful to be a working American? When did it become shameful to go to work, work hard, and to be willing to fight for fair compensation for your work? To be able to support and feed your family, afford health care, and hopefully afford an education for your children, is, to some, laughable?
I get that the economy is tanked. I get that the CEO’s, let run wild by the Bush administration, have undermined the banks and the auto industry. What I don’t get is how one department in the film biz blames another for those failures.
What I guess I will never understand is how people like McHiring can be so short sighted and so glib as to not realize we are all in the same boat. And when one group agrees to roll over and take an unfair deal, to give up a fair wage, to give up health care, like dominoes the rest of us will give up out health care and our fair wage. As precedence is set, corporations follow with “The BLANK worker’s union agreed to no health care. We need to take it from your union to stay competitive.”
And we’ll all look back on the days when people were lucky enough to live and work in an America, whether it was in McDonald’s or whatever McHiring thinks is more noble (would being a carpenter be OK, or and RN or a teacher?) and get a decent wage and health benefits. We’ll remember an America where working was admired but then standing up for yourself was so frightening to those like McHiring who laugh at people who work for a living– we all took what was offered and dream of a day when Americans could work at a fast food restaurant and get a decent wage and health care. The kind of compensation unions have fought for and has trickled down to even those without a union.
Make your jokes. But professional actors work hard. Some of you may not understand the daily life. Some of you may use a distant cousin who calls himself an actor but hasn’t worked since the high school play as your example of lazy actors.
But if you open your eyes you’ll see that actors are not only an important part of the biz just like the others who work in other departments, they are right now fighting your fight–the working person’s fight- for fair compensation and benefits.
helenofpeel said “Why are you fixated on “coming together?” It ain’t gonna happen. And no one cares whether the board comes together or not.”
Wow. So I guess we are doomed to fail no matter what. Don’t forget that the MEMBERSHIP voted in U4S over MF in an attempt to CHANGE DIRECTION that is killing all our careers.
Don’t you see??? If we can’t get the board to come together, we can’t get the membership to come together. If we can’t get the membership to come together then we have absolutely NO POWER and will be forced to take whatever crumbs the studios throw our way. Our ONLY power is in UNITY, so yeah, I sure as hell care if the Board can come together.
I’m not saying to NOT let the membership vote. But any vote held without doing SOMETHING to bring the membership together will cast us into FURTHER DIVISION AND LIMBO. I believe that if nothing changes the contract as it stands from the AMPTP WILL be voted in because, and I’ll state it again:
Most SAG members have NO FAITH that we can get a better deal.
So sure, let them vote with the huge divide in the Board. THEN WHAT???!! It’s that lack of vision that has doomed us to limbo in the first place.
So here are the options of putting it to a vote as is:
Put it to a vote, contract voted in, actors miss an opportunity and get what EVERYONE agrees is not a great contract.
Put it to a vote, contract NOT voted in, strike authorization IMPOSSIBLE because there is no way in hell of getting 75% of the membership on board and NOTHING CHANGES.
The coming together isn’t just for THIS CONTRACT, it’s FOR OUR FUTURE. It’s not about NOW, it’s about next year, next contract, next decade and about healing the divide that is KILLING SAG. If we don’t change, Actors will all suffer from the ongoing lunacy.
So go ahead. Put it to a vote. No matter what happens we are still screwed unless we can get our shit together. And if you are right, that isn’t going to happen and that’s a sad thing because I used to be proud to be a SAG member.
Dear Mr Limbo Again,
Has it occurred to you that if the members vote no on the contract it gives the board a certain direction in which to move? That it gives the AMPTP a clear stance of how the members feel, instead of having to watch the comic-tragedy of the board? Has that occurred to you?
I’m just glad you admitted you really don’t want the membership to vote! Finally, someone told the truth.
helenofpeel said “Has it occurred to you that if the members vote no on the contract it gives the board a certain direction in which to move?”
Your mistaken assumption is that the board CAN move in a direction. Problem is they are so deeply divided, like the membership, that they HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO NEXT. And therein lies the probelm.
There is no VISION, no LEADERSHIP behind this change in tactics. If the contract is voted down NOTHING CHANGES and you have offered nothing in terms of a solution the problem I outlined.
True leaders will bring people together. They will unite them in a common cause. They will offer VISION as to where the path will lead. They will work WITH opposing viewpoints to bring the majority into play for the betterment of the people.
Current MF leadership is Hollywood is great and screw the rest of the country. Screw AFTRA. Screw the AMPTP. Either do what we say or we will force you to capitulate.
And obviously you didn’t read my post. I’m not against the membership voting. I’m just against continuing the war with ourselves. Pitting SAG member against SAG member is sheer lunacy.
What I DID say was that UNLESS you can offer a vision for what you will do AFTER a NO vote (other than go back and yell and scream some more) then the contract stands a VERY good chance of passing.
However, if MF can work WITH U4S and find common ground, such as reconstituting the negotiating committee with a more acceptable mix to shake things up or a clearer path to victory, THEN the membership may unite behind it. Business as usual WILL NOT FLY ANYMORE.
I know many people who will vote for the contract because the thought of leaving the current negotiating committee in charge is simply not an option. They have failed miserabley and extending that failure is pointless.
I only ask that Doug Allen, Alan Rosenberg and the rest of the MF come forth with a clear “what happens next” scenario that brings IN U4S and will UNITE the membership, not continue to pit fellow actors against each other.
Is it too much to ask for actual LEADERSHIP from our President and NED? I don’t think so. If we don’t get it, my money is on the contract passing.
Ace, “comments by people that have no stake on this fight”? Really? meaning less productions doesn’t mean less work for the crew, less ancillary jobs and less people with money to spend on restaurants (yes, the one you work when you’re not booked) and clothes and whatever? Really?
But one thing I HOPE YOU’RE RIGHT: you will keep this impasse or go to strike. Please, please, go to strike.
I want to see SAG dead.
(Long live AFTRA)
No, ‘proudtobeanon’, “comments by people that have no stake on this fight” [sic] means people who can’t vote on the contract (non-SAG members); people who insist on telling SAG what to do because it suits their position, but who don’t seem to be able to fairly and honestly put themselves in SAG’s position. People who blame SAG (and actors in general) from the start, which skews their ongoing opinions and comments. And people who would rather cower to bullying than stand and fight for their rights.
Until the AMPTP comes after their guild(s) and attempts to cut their earnings by 1/3. Then we’ll see how they feel.
And you: you’re “proud to be a non…” what? Non-union member? Non-SAG member? Non-grammar user?
Let’s see what we have here:
misquoted me – check;
weak, common, cheap shot at actors working in restaurants – check;
lack of proper capitalization – check;
incorrect sentence structure – check;
using “on” for “in”, “on” for “at” and “to” for “on”…
And all of this in, what, four or five sentences?
Yeah, long live AFTRA. You represent them so well.
‘Limbo’,
I agree very much with your previous post. Surprised? But I don’t think that changing the NegCom will do anything to get the AMPTP to change one damn thing. I don’t know why anyone would think that, but I also don’t knock your opinion.
(While reading below, keep in mind that I’m more independent than MF, so I’m not supporting MF necessarily. What I am supporting is my voted-in leaders, whoever they are.)
So with regards to the board coming together and showing a united front (getting along), we must remember that it has been U4S and NY (and others) who have continually rocked that boat, not MF. I’m all for dissent and change where/when change is due. But there’s a process for that and these factions have chosen to make their disdain public instead of keeping it “in house”. Why? Only they know for sure, but between the garrulous public comments during the SAG elections, and the vindictive ways in which the NY board has acted lately, our national board and NegCom have not had the united support behind them they should have. And making these political power moves during a contract negotiation? Shameful.
The outcome? A (perceived) splintered Screen Actor’s Guild.
If people really do want peace; if the NY board and U4S really do want what’s best for their guild, then they need to back the f* off and STFU – and support their elected leaders, and voted-upon referendums. Show support for what they, and the membership, voted. That’s what unions and guilds are supposed to do. That’s what’s gonna get SAG leadership on the same page again. It’s pretty hard for a President and NED to “lead” when they’re getting stabbed in the back by their own people.
I do feel strongly that putting blame on the current NegCom is wrong. Not that they’ve done everything right, but as we all know the AMPTP has just sat back with it’s collective arms folded – a stone wall. In hindsight, there is a lot of “if-this-then-that” (if my Aunt had balls…) But in this case, if our leaders, the NED, Alan Rosenberg, et al, had SAG’s full support from the start then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Do you agree? You can’t blame the messenger here. And I think most of the membership feels the same.
“I only ask that Doug Allen, Alan Rosenberg and the rest of the MF come forth with a clear “what happens next” scenario”, “…and will UNITE the membership, not continue to pit fellow actors against each other.”
I totally agree. I, too, want to know what will happen if/when the contract gets voted down. I see no chance of it being ratified.
In support and solidarity,
hey “proudtobeanon”
if SAG dies, it will be the beginning of the deaths
of all show business unions.
Hello Mr. Limbo Again,
You said, “Your mistaken assumption is that the board CAN move in a direction. Problem is they are so deeply divided, like the membership, that they HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO NEXT. And therein lies the probelm.”
Okay, I get that. So answer me this? How will things get better WITHOUT a vote by the membership on the contract from the AMPTP? How?
If the membership votes, AMPTP gets a message. Hopefully the SAG board(s) will too. But the membership should not be denied a vote just because SAG has not done their “vision quest.”
To deny the membership because of a desire for vision just seems like another stalling tactic to me…
Ace and helen,
I’m actually GLAD to see a real conversation open it up here. It gives me hope. It’s time for true LEADERSHIP and for ALL our elected leaders to WORK TOGETHER for the good of the union. As I said before, a vote doesn’t bother me. But a vote without a clear vision will most like lead to the acceptance of the contract. Is that what Doug, Alan and you want? I’m pretty certain it isn’t.
I think enough members will vote FOR the contract for it to pass because the alternative is keeping us in the limbo we are in and that is just making us more enemies from sister unions. Without a clear picture of HOW this will be different from the past 10 months and without reaching across to the people who voted for U4S, Doug and Alan and the MF will be sealing the crappy deal they have fought against.
Reconstintuting the Negotiating Committee may or may not move the AMPTP. However, it WILL get more members on board IF both factions believe their interests are being looked out for and the AMPTP continues to stonewall. If you support your elected leadership, then you can’t discount U4S nor NY or other non-Hollywood branches. Leadership isn’t just the President. It’s the ENTIRE BOARD.
Don’t forget that U4S took a significant majority of the seats in the last election. That was a message from the membership and it hasn’t been taken seriously by the MF. BOTH the MF AND U4S/NY MUST get it together for the good of the membership that elected them ALL.
I agree that NY stepping out in the way they did created great press for the AMPTP and made SAG look really bad. It should not have been done that way. However, it’s clear that both parties are at an impasse and that it needs to be broken TOGETHER. Not in the press, but in private meetings and board rooms. And not later, but NOW!
As to support by the board, until the last elections Doug Allen, Alan Rosenberg and the MF HAD the support of the Board. Problem is their fight with AFTRA lost them the support of the membership. Losing AFTRA as an ally in the negotiating room was a HUGE mistake, no matter how it came to pass.
This is bigger than MF vs. U4S/NY. It’s about STOPPING the infighting and coming together with a COMMON GOAL to move the negotiations forward and force the AMPTP into action. The only strength we really have in all this at this point is the threat of a strike. Well, that threat is gone because everyone knows there’s no way in hell that 75% of the membership will be behind it.
However, IF we can meet on common ground that is INCLUSIVE rather than exclusive, then a strike authorization WOULD be possible and that, my friends, would truly strike fear into the hearts of the AMPTP in these economic times.
I am glad we are having this conversation. But to wait for the board to “get it together” while there are partisan divides and what appears to be personal vendettas, is just not realistic for the membership.
Let the membership vote. That act in itself may get the board together more than anything else.
If there is no vote coming, it’s already over. People should just get on with their lives and forget about SAG as a viable entity representing their interests.
Time for the membership to vote with their feet.
As a history major in college, I remember my professor telling us about the fall of Rome. Granted there were many factors. But one was that the middle class lost hope. And when they lost hope, they moved across Europe to start their lives over in different regions outside the Roman Empire. And when the middle class left, Rome was doomed.
It seems appropo for SAG too. Ignore the middle class members and its over.
I think we agree on what the problem is that needs to be solved (internally) and what the outcome of the negotiations should be. Where we differ is finding a solution – which is based on why the problem exists. When you talk about “stopping the infighting”, I agree. But the infighting is absolutely brought on by U4S and NY. When our elected leaders are forced to have to defend themselves, this takes their efforts away from the task at hand (the negotiation). And when they have to do it publicly… Well, we all agree that that is counter-productive, to say the least.
You don’t change a union contract negotiating committee in the middle of negotiations. You don’t lambaste your elected National President or National Executive Director in the middle of a contract negotiation. These are people who were voted in (and hired) to do a certain job. You support the team, even if that team isn’t who you’d like to have running things. Everything else it petty bullshit.
It’s very obvious that the NY board (short of Eric Bogosian) has a bug up its ass about Hollywood. They have some kind of agenda. Power struggle? Jealousy? Personal vendettas? I don’t know and I don’t care. These people have done possibly irreparable damage to SAG by their actions. It’s very telling that “some board members” got together there and decided to take public shots at the President – but they only let people who agreed with their backstabbing tactics play, keeping Bogosian in the dark. Again, shameful. (Any members from the NY area who are reading this, you should absolutely take this into consideration when voting.)
The membership as a whole didn’t vote U4S into a majority. Yes, we all may want to go a different direction than in the past, but the way in which U4S went about campaigning was despicable – and people were turned off by it. I certainly was. That probably cost them the golden apple.
And it was AFTRA that left SAG at the altar, not the other way around. Yes, losing that ally was a huge setback, but it wasn’t SAG’s mistake no matter what came before it. AFTRA was dead-set on caving to avoid a fight and they decided to throw in with the AMPTP (probably to merely survive). Again, shameful for them to do that not only to their members, but also to leave SAG swinging out in the wind like that. And it caught SAG off-guard.
I’m still not convinced that a 75% SAV isn’t possible. As I stated previously, the few of us who post here aren’t an accurate average of how the membership feels, nor the industry as a whole. When the SAV got “delayed” (lol), I assume the board’s tactic is to let the contract ratification fail, thereby seeing how strongly the membership feels about moving into a SAV.
I agree the contract sucks. I agree that everyone needs to get back to work because people are suffering in SAG and other unions as well.
The reality of the situation is horrible however AMPTP had no intentions of giving you a better deal then the other unions last June, and with or without SAV they don’t plan on giving you a better deal now.
The rift within your union is only benefiting AMPTP Stop attacking each other and start working together on a plan. Your continued division will only make it harder the get a better deal in a couple years.
helenofpeel — January 26, 2009 @ 8:15 am:
“I am glad we are having this conversation. But to wait for the board to “get it together” while there are partisan divides and what appears to be personal vendettas, is just not realistic for the membership.
Let the membership vote.”
Correct me if I am wrong, but for any vote to occur, isn’t this the case that it must be approved by the board? So, how the membership can vote for anything, if the board doesn’t come together to decide what exactly the members should vote on?
Hi, my name is ACE 2, and I have no concept of reality.
I believe 90% of the guild want to strike.
I believe that MF has done absolutely nothing wrong.
I want a unicorn in my on set dressing room.