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I'm told that tonight's SAG Hollywood Division meeting began with an advisory motion presented by George Coe asking the SAG National Board to immediately send out the AMPTP's February 18th "Last, Best And Final" offer to the membership for a vote. Coe, a Hollywood Division board member and Membership First'er and part of the ousted TV/Theatrical negotiating committee, reminded SAG National Executive Director David White that, according to federal labor law, the union only has 60 days from the date that the offer was presented to respond, or the AMPTP can unilaterally impose the LB&FO. White was asked to immediately call a SAG National Board meeting to discuss sending the contract out for a membership vote.
"What happened next had jaws dropping all over the room," a source told me. "It was clear from David White's response that he intends to let the clock run out without calling any SAG National Board meeting or sending out the contract. He said SAG had to be 'strategic' about this and wanted to make sure the Commercial negotiations were going well before proceeding. That made the MF [Membership First] members go ballistic."
Those Commercial talks are currently in recess for a week. When told about the urgency of getting the AMPTP LB&FO in the members' hands for a vote, White responded, "This is not something to do when you're distracted by the other contract... We'll have to assess when to have a meeting ... I've spoken to many members who don't want us to send out the contract for a vote."
Unite For Strength leader Ned Vaughn also was dead-set against setting the LB&FO out to members: "If we send this contract out, and it's accepted, that goes against what the Board wants... The reason [MF] wants to send the contract out for a vote is to get the members to vote against it so a Strike Authorization Vote will follow... Since 75% of the [SAG] National Board rejected the contract, who will write the 'pro' statement?" (For those of you who need a scorecard, Unite For Strength is part of the SAG National Majority coalition running the Guild now along with all but one member of the NY Division and the entire Regional Branches.)
I'm told Vaughn's comment prompted another Hollywood Division Board member, Membership First's Anne DeSalvo, to respond, "If we don't stand for something, we'll fall for anything."
In the end, Coe's proposal was passed because of the Hollywood Division support of Membership First (even though the Unite For Strength contingent voted no). But this is just an advisory motion to the SAG National Board, so it doesn't have much in the way of muscle to force the new leadership to let membership have any say on the contract.
The question I have to ask again is, Exactly what is it that the SAG National Majority will do? If White truly does nothing, and the AMPTP is allowed by federal labor law to unilaterally impose that LB&FO on SAG, then the membership will never get to have their say on the terms of the new contract one way or the other. That would be inexcusable.
To date, the SAG National Majority has never tried to improve the terms of the AMPTP's LB&FO once it was presented February 18th -- except to debate its expiration date. Obviously the new leadership feels that this contract, a retread of AFTRA's lousy contract, is good enough though even the new NED White told the SAG National Board it "sucked" and it undermines vital issues like residuals and jurisdiction in New Media. The SAG National Majority's goal in the past was to attack the old Guild leadership at every turn. Its goal in the future is a AFTRA/SAG merger at any cost. As for any plan for the present, it's obvious that the SAG National Majority still doesn't have one.
But the AMPTP does. I always wondered how the SAG National Majority was planning to get the proposed TV/Theatrical Contract ratified by the membership. But I never thought it would be by doing nothing.
- SAG Board Today Votes To Reject AMPTP "Last Best Final" Offer
- SAG National Majority Has No Clue What To Do Next
- AMPTP Gives SAG "Last Best Final" Offer And Blows Off New Negotiators: Deja Vu
- Why The Smoke & Mirrors, SAG & AMPTP?
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SAG is toast. Them changing their leadership was the dumbest thing they could have done. AFTRA didn’t fuck the actors that hard.
They deserve the mediocrity.
OMFG… Wish I could say I was surprised. UFS never intended to let anyone vote on anything. And now they will roll over and play dead, letting the “final offer” become the de facto contract.
Wish someone could sue over this and force the vote. SAG is screwed, and they have only the “moderates” to blame for it.
Thankfully, the advisory motion has been passed. Now put it into action immediately so we can vote before it’s too late! I demand my right to vote.
Whoa.
If that isn’t a plot twist…
With respect, Nikki, it is possible you are incorrect in stating that the SAG national majority has no plan.
U4S & allies – AKA the corporate appeasers – had really only one problem with the LBF – the three-year timetable. However, they must know, based on the overwhelming results of the postcard poll, that the membership would reject the LBF. They can’t publicly support the LBF, because it contradicts all their protestations about aligning with the WGA and so on in two years. But privately, they must want it because they’re angling to allow it to go into effect the only way they can – by sitting on their hands. Any statements about not wanting to adversely affect the commercial contract negotiations are just so much noise.
That is, in short, their plan – to implement an onerous union-busting residual-stealing reverse-Robin-Hood contract through inaction. At this point, the corporate appeasers’ refusal to put anything to a vote of the membership – the LBF or the SAV – is clearly anti-democratic. It is also downright shameful.
I’m confused. Was White hired by SAG or the AMPTP?
Also, is there absolutly no way for the SAG membership to kick the new leadership out?
One question. If the AMPTP companies are currently paying out on the old contract at lower rates, and that contract doesn’t provide any jurisdiction to SAG for new media or any type of residuals for new media, and since SAG can still strike at any time during the term of a unilaterally imposed LB&F offer, what is the motivation of the companies to impose it? Just because they want to pay SAG scale actors more? Why wouldn’t they just keep operating under the old contract at the lower rates?
The problem with SAG is that it’s run by actors. Having worked with actors, most of them are emotional and narcissistic wrecks who came to Hollywood looking for something they couldn’t get at home as children. The result is a union run by ego and megalomaniacal maniacs, the wealthiest and most powerful of whom tried to convince the poorest members that they didn’t need their residuals or livelihood because it would have interfered with the 20 million plus salaries of Matt Damon and Tom Hanks. That’s the real crux of the truth. The stars didn’t want to be bothered and now the union in such perilous straights that I, quite frankly, predict it will not survive. And you know what, frankly they deserve it.
This fiasco has gone from Shakespearean tragedy to Becketian absurd. These “corporate appeasers” (who for the most part I noticed have tv jobs they want to keep driving to everyday), are sitting around like vladimir and estragon, not daring to go anywhere, because Godot might show up. But the leopard don’t change his spots, the dog can’t be taught new tricks, godot will never show, and the corporation exists to steal your bone and fuck you up the ass.
“If we send this contract out, and it’s accepted, that goes against what the ***Board*** wants” –Ned Vaughn
When oh when will the new SAG board ‘majority’ finally get it through their thick skulls that as directors they are supposed to represent ***ALL*** the members of SAG? Not the members that can hire people and negotiate their way out of a bad standard deal, not their friends who are too scared to stand up for their futures and/or potentially ‘mess up’ their popularity with the executives in the conglomerates thereby hurting their current deals.
Being a board member in a labor union means you take on a *fiduciary* duty. That for those who didn’t go to law school means that you act in trust for your fellow members and when you make decisions on their contracts you actually have to put the entire membership’s contractual interests ahead of your own and, well, dare I say it, FIRST?
Don’t believe me? Go read some US Supreme Court cases on something called the “duty of fair representation”. There’s an amusing little one called Marquez v. Screen Actors Guild.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=collective%20and%20bargaining&url=/supct/html/97-1056.ZS.html
Note the following: “A breach of a Union’s duty of fair representation occurs when a union’s conduct toward a[ny] member of the bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith. E.g., Vaca v. Sipes, 386 U.S. 171, 190.”
Methinks the ‘new’ SAG board majority & NED White along with SAG itself needs to get ready for a suit in federal court (which any SAG member can bring).
It’s a sad day when a Union talks of ratifying a labour contract without seeking the approval of it’s members.
… Is this what the RBD, NY and U4S membership at large wants? I ask because this isn’t what the U4S’s ran on in the election. Wasn’t their platform in a nut shell; We want everthing MF wants but we think that they are blowing the negotiations?…
Can somebody PLEASE post on here, how, as SAG members, we can take collective action? How can we start a movement to force them to send out the contract for vote? Also, if it is turned down, what mechanism can we use to start a movement to remove new board members that we do not approve of? Are we all just going to sit around and watch this happen? Do we NOT have ANY power?
MATT MULHERN: – if you are reading this – how can we get something moving here? Everybody comes here on this board and comments – but we never get anything going. How can we mobilize. How can we collectively start a movement to remove people like Ned Vaughn who have, by anybody’s opinion I have talked to, committed the equivalent of treason against their union?
Somebody – anybody who “knows” – please post here, and there are people, like myself, who are willing to do the footwork.
I have been able to make a living as a middle class actor for over 12 years now. It’s hard to believe that I’m going to have to wait tables again. But the cold, hard truth is staring me in the face. I heard this “new technology” argument in the commercial world with cable. And now to see most of the commercials I book air only on cable…. We are doomed. They have bested us. Well, as a parting shot I’d like to tell the studios and the producers, “Good luck finding true talent out there! We’ll all be too busy with our other jobs to come to your stupid audition that won’t pay anyway!”
Yeah, I’m reading it. It isn’t surprising to me, at least. The “moderates” want merger with AFTRA, that’s their goal, and, as shocked as they were by the failure to grant retro-activity when they lat met with the AMPTP, their inner-discussions have consisted of figuring out, with David Whit, whom they hired for just this reason, to parlay this seeming disaster into their ultimate goal – merger with AFTRA.
So, this, while still quite a volatile situation for them, is heading, generally speaking, in the right direction.
MF screams bloody murder at meetings, and knows it is essentially powerless to do anything. Any influence they had, the blew, when they didn’t send out the SAV back when they had the chance.
That inaction led to the boiling over of frustration and anger that led to the UFS coup.
And here we are.
I know this is all observation and not solution, but when I read Scott Wilson draws 150 people to demonstrations, and there are 70 thousand SAG members in L.A. – I wonder: where’s the beef?
People, outside the boardroom, where they accomplish nothing except yelling at each other, seem perfectly willing to ride the wave wherever it takes us: merger with AFTRA, out of the ability to make a living, both?
My main focus has been, and will continue to be, transparency , electronic voting and electronic polling. That’s a longer-term idea, but it still requires membership participation, because it would require the membership, watch listen, then vote ALL these knuckleheads out on their asses, and install some people who know what the fuck they are doing.
Otherwise? Right now? Revolt. Imagine, as John Lennon used to warble, if thousands upon thousands of SAG members descended upon 5757 Wilshire and demanded action? THAT would get some attention, don’t you think?
Ned Vaughn is happy as a clam. This is all going just as he hoped. And his puppet-master in NYC, Richard Masur, as well as James Cromwell who said publicly “the plan is to weaken SAG enough to merge with AFTRA?”
They appear to be getting their wish.
You want a plan? You are not going to get anywhere via parliamentary rules. You will have to revolt. You will have to get people off their asses and go down to 5757 and get in their faces and tell them you want them out. And you will have to do it “peacefully” or risk getting arrested.
That’s about it. right now UFS has all the toys. And MF has nobody to blame but themselves for giving them away.
If you want to stop this farce of “union representation”, you must do what Scuttlebut suggests… Sue in federal court over the union breaching their fiduciary duty. That’s what has to happen. Perhaps you can get the ACLU to help out here. Or another unions lawyers (like the AFL-CIO).
That is probably your only hope.
This is one big bad joke.
Yes, please. How can we kick these people out of office and/or get that contract sent out before the 60 days? Petition, how many signatures would we need? Some sort of emergency action? Also I want White out, we aren’t paying him 400,000 (why are we paying that much at all?) to NOT actually negotiate anything, but to allow employers to lay a contract on us.
You know, I’ve had order by tv companies include a letter in with something I ordered saying they were signing me up for an offer and if I didn’t respond before the free trial was over, they would charge me a monthly fee. I called them up and told them sending me a piece of paper doesn’t constitute us entering into a contract – I never agreed to that, they need me to sign off for that to be a contract. I got my money back. Why does this feel like that? And why does it seem like we have less opportunity to address these wrongs?
I don’t know the rules, but someone who is a lawyer or who has a history or is on the Hollywood board must…
They are going to ignore the “advisory” – so lets not put any of our eggs in that basket. What can we do NOW to end this ridiculousness?
For all those asking what they can do…
Its quite simple actually. The upcoming board elections later this year – Vote. There is no petition or lawsuit that would have any effect before the elections (or probably ever – the elections will always carry more legal authority than anything else).
(the membership will be heard loud and clear – one way or the other – just not sure it will be the outcome you want)
Ancient Chinese proverb: If you don’t know where you’re going, any road will lead you there.
WE WILL SEE THEM IN COURT.AND, MAYBE THE STUDIOS TOO.
It’s time to mobilize folks. These people hijacked our union–your union. They are on the move to reduce your salary and eliminate your ability to make the minimums for insurance for your children. All the more spoils for them.
Their platform has always been to keep a contract vote out of the hands of the membership. They were clever enough and have weekly salaries high enough to hire clandestine legal reps to advise them on a way to overthrow our leadership and those same legal advisers are clever enough to overthrow us–the membership–to get what they want.
If we sit by and do nothing more than post our dismay we can only blame ourselves for letting the demise of our union and our ability to make a living.
On a very basic level they are paying $400,000 of our dollars to have White sit on hands while they still pay Doug Allen $500,000. That’s about $1 million of our hard-earned dues to move forward their agenda to eliminate us by eliminating our vote.
The cards of UFS and David White are easy to see. From here on out, DO SOMETHING, or blame yourself.
I’m with Scott. It is time for the working class members of SAG to get our union back. When working on sets, I have yet to meet a SAG actor who wouldn’t vote No on this contract. Can we really wait until our next elections to do something?
Too bad Budd Schulberg & Elia Kazan aren’t here anymore.
They could make a hell of a movie about this! But, unfortunately there isn’t anyone in this Guild with the guts of Terry Malloy!
To Scott of March 10th 6:30am;
Although it has been mentioned on other occasions, any SAG member can go to the Guild and pick up petition instructions. In the SAG constitution, I believe Article X, any action made by the national board can be challenged/reverse by the membership. It takes collecting the signatures of 10% of the general membership (at least 10-12 thousand signatures of paid up members). That’s also the process to remove a board member. Or board members can be brought up on charges. Those charges are filed with the Secretary/Treasurer, investigated with the results being presented to a smaller committee which then presents its ruling to the board. I believe it takes a 2/3rd vote of the national board to remove a board member. That’s also in the constitution.
Obviously the easiest way to try to correct some of this nightmare is not to re-elect any UFS Hollywood board member this coming September. I believe Vaughn’s seat is up. That may not help with the current situation, but…
I want to thank Nikki for her take on the current situation. I,too, couldn’t figure out why UFS voted against sending out the LBF and what their plan could possibly be. I believe Nikki nailed it. That is UFS/NY/RBD’s plan; To not do anything, let the 60 days elapse and that would allow the AMPTP to force that piece of crap deal on SAG. With or without any change in “term”. But that doesn’t prevent SAG from still voting. From what I know and what I’ve read, the AMPTP promulgating a contract does not prohibit SAG from sending out that contract to the membership. Or a SAV. So, what we have to do now is demand that the SAG send the LBF out to us ASAP. And keep demanding that until that happens. Demand, demand, demand. Call, send emails, go to the SAG offices in New York, L.A. , everywhere. Get the word out. Talk it up while waiting to audition.
If you believe that UFS/NY/RBD have really screwed things up by constantly sabotaging, publicly criticizing and belittling the former negotiators, damaging the union by the freaking Written Assent, lied to the membership by “promising” that the new team can get a better deal ASAP, replaced a real fighter (Doug Allen) with someone who’s never really stood strong against our employers (McGuire) and who have constantly bent over backwards to protect AFTRA and the AMPTP, let them know, too. The members have the power to try to fix this. It’ll take a lot of elbow grease, but it can be done. It’s not too late.
Dear Scott, as a 30+ year member of SAG and having lived through strikes before I can tell you exactly what you can do. Stop depending on SAG. The laws of supply and demand rule business and profits, not union mandates. Get out there and meet directors with projects. Meet agents that package projects for that director and convine both of them that they need you. Meet casting directors who need your type and send gifts. Meet writers and buy drinks. I don’t know one good agent or director that books an actor because SAG made a phone call. They book you because one, you can act and two, you are exactly what that need at exactly that time. You have to get out there and cross paths in order to create a demand for your work. Don’t worry about SAG. worry about your life, your career and realize business is business. The actors that work, work to act. It’s that simple. now go meet somebody and be impressive my friend. I promise. It’ll be okay.
*Now* you guys are ready to mobilize and present a united front? Really?
They can’t publicly support the LBF, because it contradicts all their protestations about aligning with the WGA and so on in two years.
Just curious, but — if the IATSE can negotiate a new deal a year in advance, why can’t SAG do the same?
To see the future of SAG, all you have to do is take a quick pulse of the people that responded to this thread. There is senseless bickering and name calling that does no one any good at all. You guys are doomed, plain and simple. And you have no one to blame but yourself.
If you and your management felt so slighted by the offer, you should of had the balls to strike, but you did not – so deal with it. Now you are stuck with a shitty contract and situation. If I recall, the former management did not send anything out to vote on either.
You should listen to Mr. Voiceman. He speaks the truth. Your union has failed you. If you have talent, you will be OK. If not, I am sure that some of you will make great waiters…
Has anybody looked into whether or not both sides of SAG leaders are secretly in the pocket of the AMPTP? Because it seems like they’re busting this union on purpose.
I think that traitors have infiltrated the SAG leadership. The reckless actions of White and UFS are behaving in an irresponsible way. It seems to me, that they want to sabotage a good future for the members of SAG. Mr. White should be replaced and UFS should be investigated.
We (the membership) need legal representation. Someone who knows how to stop this farce of a Board from stealing our union and handing it over to the opposition on a silver platter.
I don’t know how to do it – I don’t know what steps to take. But someone does. It’s not about the coming elections (too far away), it’s not about signing any petitions… This is now a legal matter and should be addressed in court by someone who knows what they’re doing. We need an injunction and we need it right now.
Clancy Brown would know. Hell, Alan Rosenberg would know. They might/can silence you, Alan, but you can still lead. At the very least, you know who to call. We need a leader here – what say you? Can you step down (recuse yourself) from your office and truly organize us – lead your membership against this illegal coup? If you aren’t in office, can’t you then speak? I’m not trying to kick you out – on the contrary, I’m trying to get your hands untied and your mouth un-gagged.
The membership MUST still have a voice. Where do I stand and shout? At whom do I scream? I’m not talking picketing with signs or putting my name on a petition – I’m talking about making use of my union-given legal rights to vote and have a say in how my union is run. These rights are now being taken away from me.
This is a travesty. People need to go to jail here.
And for all of you members who voted in this kangaroo court of U4S-ers, how does it feel to have been blatantly lied to by your Prom King, Queen & Princess (who were sleeping with the enemy, btw)? Shame on you. You should all be screaming the loudest…
P.S. Huge props to George Coe for revealing this ticking time bomb, hidden under David White’s long black coat. Thank you, George!
This is just one more way our “new and improved” board is keeping membership in the dark about what’s really going on. Until it’s too late.
Justine, Frances, Anne Marie -
Can any of you board members who have posted here in the past tell us what we as members can do or if you are already in the process of legal action to get the contract sent out to the general membership for a vote or declare this a breach of fiduciary whatever if that is (as someone said above) the only thing we can do.
Please. We can’t let this happen.
Where are the stars now, where are you Jason Alexander – like how democratically this is going?
I know people seem to want to do something so read this post from an earlier contributor. You can’t go straight to court, you have to abide ny union rules, which means a petition. Want White out? Here’s how:
Although it has been mentioned on other occasions, any SAG member can go to the Guild and pick up petition instructions. In the SAG constitution, I believe Article X, any action made by the national board can be challenged/reverse by the membership. It takes collecting the signatures of 10% of the general membership (at least 10-12 thousand signatures of paid up members). That’s also the process to remove a board member. Or board members can be brought up on charges. Those charges are filed with the Secretary/Treasurer, investigated with the results being presented to a smaller committee which then presents its ruling to the board. I believe it takes a 2/3rd vote of the national board to remove a board member. That’s also in the constitution.
So stop whing and complaining and take control of your future! Everyone is so complacent and like sheep in a field just bleating out their misery but no one actually wants to do any work to take control. I will happily sign a petition to get morons out of positions they should not be in. Who lives near the Guild and can get this started????
Unemployment is Los Angeles county is now at 12%. Thank you SAG. Jackasses
scott,
union advocate is correct. we can petition these mooks for our right to
vote, for the right to steer our own course.
but even before petitioning, i encourage you and every SAG member
out there to BOMBARD 5757 wilshire with e-mails, phone calls
and letters and postcards and DEMAND that david white and the
national board send out the LBFO for a vote.
Here’s a radical idea. If the SAG board won’t let you vote on the contract, and they won’t send out a strike authorization vote then why don’t you do something that the board could not have predicted in their wildest dreams.
STRIKE ANYWAY! Call it now and walk out.
Make your feelings clear to the board of SAG and the AMPTP and make it stick.
I’m too disgusted and beaten down by this despicable breach of fiduciary duty to spearhead the lawsuit and lead the charge myself, let alone lacking the financial wearwithal to take any lead role.
I hope to god somebody in MF or somebody disgusted as I gets the suit going, however. It does cost money even without hiring outside counsel (e.b., “nominal” filing fees, etc., which ain’t so “nominal” for most of us during this defacto lockout) No cliche, but this is the biggest outrage I’ve experienced in my 15 years or as a member of the screen actors guild.
Whoever is willing to spearhead the charge and serve as head lightning rod, IF this is not alarmism based on some miscommunication, however, I volunteer my skills in legal research, assisting drafting, and whatever else actually uses the skillset I’m still paying for from Boalt Hall, U.C. Berkeley. Let’s just not all work at crosspurposes and designing the same wheel, however. It will admittedly take precious time, but I’m hoping there will emerge an obvious front runner challenge to this fiasco. When I’m sure it’s there, and there’s one brave chief, I’m willing to help the skilled indians and volunteer my skills.
Fuck this noise. I’ll write Alan today, while if not leading the charge, I suspect will know who would or will be. The scary thing is thought the fat lady has hardly sung, the ticking clock has her approaching the stage, and frankly, that’s a hell of a lot of pressure. This is very scary. As stated, however, I’m just way too beat down to make a run at this myself, especially given my coat of rust that has built up acting rather than practicing law for well over a decade.
I’m easy to reach. cswolfe@yahoo.com.
I actually hope White isn’t as big an overpaid idiot as he’s acting, and more logical heads prevail. If membership were to vote up the contract, you know, I’d be furious. But if that’s what the membership supports, I have no choice but to stand behind it no matter how angry I am at the membership at large. But to have these despicable arrogant incompetent conniving scheming buttfucks allow the worst contract in the history of the Screen Actors Guild to be imposed by *default*, thereby circumventing membership’s say in what we accept and what we refuse? There would be no way in hell I would stand for that.
So I hope there’s been some miscommunication, and the alarmism proves unecessary, and UFS/NY don’t prove to be capable of not only riding the short bus, but falling out the window as it moves. God, I hope so. I hope I and others have overestimated the total incompetence and arrogance of the Ned Vaughn squad of goons who seek to impose their personal will on the membership, in total and absolute disregard of even allowing the membership whom they ostensibly represent to have their say via ballot.
But if this — something beyond all our worst fears proves to be reality, and the real game plan is to destroy SAG by hands of Cromwell/Vaughn thugs et al., kudos to whoever has the means and emotional wherewithall to lead the charge if this inane and despicable inaction proves true. I’m there for you.
If the membership VOTES to accept this POS contract, I’ll privately hate you all for as long as I’m in this business. But so be it. I’ll live. But I, as I’m sure many of you, refuse to have a bunch of arrogant pricks chain us to a train track and let the AMPTP run over us. Fuck you, James Cromwell, fuck you, David White, fuck you, Ned Vaughn, and fuck every nasty piece of shit who’s primary professional goal is to destroy SAG after binding the hands of the membership whom you have a fiduciary duty to represent and seeking to impose your AMPTP boot-licking on all of us without having had our formal say. And everybody who voted for ANY UFS member and is not experiencing, at minimum, deep and unabating pangs of regret, fuck all y’all too. This is the screen actorS guild: Not the AMPTP’s hands-tied bitches Ned Vaughn is God and we worship him making the choices for the other 120K members coalition.
Let the membership vote on OUR contract, and all abide by the results even if I hate them. Regardless of how you feel about the current contract offer, I’m embarrassed as hell to be in the same guild as any cretin comfortable with this coup doing everything in their power to steal our voting rights away from us with this holier-than-though act of betrayal of fidiciary duty to let the membership determine OUR contract while a microscopic number of pricks wants nothing more but to impose their desires on us while binding our hands. Outlandish, unprecedented, and I hope unacceptable to even UFS rank & file.
Until the MEMBERS of the screen actors guild formally express their feelings about the current POS offer, it ain’t over, though even I admit that I’ll be living in horror as each of the remaining of the 60 days passes.
best,
C. Sterling Wolfe, Esq. State Bar #158774 (inactive by choice since I left practice to make a living acting which is an f load more enjoyable even on the worst day, as to me the worst day of acting is better than the all but the very best days practicing law).
I have no connection to showbiz so I’m not aware of the ins-and-outs of who represents who or whom, but here’s what should scare folks most.
If the contract can be legally imposed, not only do you get screwed this go-around, but its 3-year imposition puts you last in line for re-negotiation the next go-around.
You could really get screwed for close to a decade if folks don’t start getting involved and asking hard questions.
Article X, section 2 of SAG COnstitution & By-Laws:
The membership may obtain a referendum vote challenging any action of the Board of
Directors which is national in scope, provided that the demand for a referendum vote is accompanied by a
written signed petition, on an approved Guild form, bearing the signature of ten percent (10%) of the
membership in good standing.
(A.) Those members seeking a referendum vote must advise the Guild in advance of their
intentions to seek a referendum vote.
(B.) When so advised, the Guild shall calculate the number of signatures required to support a
petition signed by ten percent (10%) of the members in good standing, and shall
thereinafter supply petitioning parties with an approved Guild petition form, on which the
Guild has affixed its calculation as to the number of signatures which must be obtained.
(C.) All petitions solicited by the membership for purposes of obtaining such a referendum vote
shall be valid for only six (6) months following the date on which the Guild issued its
approved petition form to the petitioning parties.
(D.) The Board of Directors shall upon submission of a properly validated petition, order a
referendum vote by mail of the membership.
(E.) Any action of the Board of Directors may be nullified or amended by such referendum by
a majority vote of those members voting thereon.
This part of the Constitution explains how membership can assert itself as the ultimate authority over virtually any action of the Guild.
Power is and always has been in the hands of the Membership. This section of the Constitution says so. It may take more than 60 days but once momentum builds, change is inevitable.
Look – I’ve been as pro-MF as ANYONE – here – on Sagactor, and, in the snake-pit – Sagwatch – EVERY SINGLE DAY. For nearly a year now.
But you’re getting more partisan bullshit here from the MF honchos under pseudonyms.
“It’s all their fault – ‘the moderates’ – we won’t cop to our own strategic fuck-ups – not sending out the SAV, or contract, when we had the chance, and now? Our ‘plan’ is to vote out the ‘moderates’ in 7 MONTHS – so we can regain a SLIGHT majority, (which, lets face it, the way things have gone for MF? Is a long shot. They’ll probably LOSE seats in September) fire David White, pay him 400k as a kiss-off, and go right back to governing from the extreme.”
That’s a recipe for disaster. Yet again.
I support most of MF’s positions, but they have failed utterly to carry out an agenda. They had time – years – they had a majority, if not exactly a mandate, and they blew it.
The “moderates” are doing what they do – avoiding strike at all costs. “No strikes, no matter what.” This leads to a weakened SAG, which plays right into their hands, merger with AFTRA, a top-down, hopefully (it’s what UFS/NY/RBD/USAN want) qualified voting union, instead of a bottom-up, membership-driven union (which SAG is supposed to be, but has been stopped from being by BOTH MF and “the moderates.”)
If these “leaders” – on both sides – actually cared about the union, and not themselves and their own political futures within union politics, and, in some cases, perhaps, beyond?
They’d acknowledge their failures – on both sides – and step aside.
Rhetorically speaking – if there were a person I’D support for president of SAG, he or she would say this:
1. Merger is dead. Period. There have, in fact, been 16 attempts, to merge in the history of the guild. A few of them made it through the process to an actual vote, and ALL that did, were voted down by the membership. Merger is dead. You believe that’s fair? You believe, since the 1930’s, the membership has pretty much made their feelings, despite the closeness of the last vote, known about merger, and want it cast aside for good? Vote for me.
2. I do have my own feelings about the union. I believe all actors SHOULD be under one roof – SAG. If I were president, I would immediately send out a poll asking which union actors wished to be solely represented by. 50 plus 1 “SAG?” It’s SAG. 50 plus 1 “AFTRA?” It’s AFTRA.
3. I would reject this contract and send out an SAV. I would rally the membership to vote it up. I would also lower the threshold to 60%. We impeach presidents in this country with 66 and change % of the congress’ vote. 75% is ridiculous, and it needs to go.
60% gets you an SAV.
4. If the AMPTP won’t give us a fair deal in new media, which means a percentage of distributors gross from dollar one and full jurisdiction? We strike. If they won’t back off clip comsent, product placement and force majeure, as well as pay us what they owe us from the WGA strike, we strike.
5. There will be live streaming of all division and national board meetings. You want to watch it – either attend, or watch at SAG.org. You want to see all of it or some of it afterwards, go to SAG.org and go to the archive of the meeting you want to see, go to the timecode spot to see what you want to see. Stop waiting to find out from a snitch what happened because of “confidentiality” (which no one observes – they text what’s happening FROM meetings – on BOTH sides) or what was said about all but the MOST sensitive subjects, from some blog site. Find out because you have total transparency and you can watch and listen and form your own opinions and respond to electronic polls to tell the government how YOU feel and what YOU want and then YOU get to VOTE.
6. There will be electronic voting. Votes will be MORE frequent, ALL votes will be accompanied by both pro and con statements, short, concise, but with links to other info, should you require more to make up your mind. SAG members will be prepped via email that a vote is coming and be given time (2 weeks?) to decide how they wish to vote. SAG will vote over a weekend. Monday the vote is announced, and the membership’s wishes are carried out immediately.
7. There will be electronic polling on a regular basis, so membership can express their feelings to the people who represent them. No more “guessing” where membership sentiment lies. We KNOW where membership sentiment lies.
8. Hollywood is, and will remain, the home of the Screen Actors Guild. The president, should he or she be from New York, or a region, will be allowed flexibility to travel back and forth. Say – a week in L.A. – a week in NY. It’s 2009 – we don’t need the president of the Guild to live down the block from headquarters. We just need to know he or she is on the job.
9. The President will be PAID for his or her time and trouble. It will no longer simply be an “honor” to serve, while watching whatever career you had die. You will be PAID. 50k for President, 30k for VP, 20K for board members, 10K for alternates. Do the math. No one will be getting rich, but people will receive SOMETHING in return for their service besides the contempt of their political adversaries and the loss of their career as actors.
10. Most important. As our current national president has figured out – there is a way to govern from the left (him) or the right, without “tri-angulating” yourself into a pretzel. You say what you believe, as I just have, and if you can, you DO what you believe. But THE MEMBERSHIP drives the union, just as , under Obama, the AMERICAN people will either save us, or not.
THE MEMBERSHIP will be consulted, polled, and asked for their vote, without ANY attempt to deny them their say – ever, and, if my rhetorical friend doesn’t keep these promises, vote his or her ass out.
How about a revolution that results in the current power structure of SAG being thrown out by the membership – NOW – since it IS the MEMBERSHIP’S union, last time I checked – then we have an election, we don’t WAIT 7 months till September, and the membership gets to write in who they want for president and vice president, and they give the president the power to radically change the way things are going, but ONLY with their AGREEMENT with those changes, via frequent polling and voting (50 plus 1 either way)?
Sound crazy? Sure. Any crazier than the complete and utter disaster the current factions have the union stuck in?
You decide.
Article XIII, Section 4 of the SAG Constitution & By-Laws
Removal of Officers and Directors.
(A.) Any officer or member of the Board of Directors elected by a Division or Branch, or by the General Membership, may be removed from office upon a finding by the Board of Directors that such officer or Board member was guilty of serious misconduct.
(B.) Any member of the Guild in good standing may file charges of serious misconduct against any elected officer or member of the Board of Directors with the Secretary Treasurer or National Executive Director, or with any assistant of the National Executive Director designated by the National Executive Director for such purpose, or with any Branch Executive Director. Such charges may also be filed either by a committee or committees constituted for such purpose in accordance with Article VI, Section 7(A) or by the National Executive Director or his or her assistants. The Board of Directors may also provide, from time to time, procedure for preliminary investigation of such charges and their dismissal in the absence of probable cause for proceeding. Upon the filing of charges against any officer or director (unless the same be dismissed pursuant to the foregoing sentence), a copy thereof shall be mailed to the office or director so charged, together with at least two (2) weeks’ notice of the date fixed for the hearing. The Board of Directors shall hear the charges or may delegate the hearing to a Trial Committee. The officer or director so charged shall be notified in writing as to the decision. A decision by the Trial Committee to remove an officer or director shall only be a recommendation to the appeals body established by the Board of Directors. Adoption by the appeals body of the recommendation to remove will be automatically reviewed by the Board of Directors. A two-thirds (2/3) majority of those Board officers or directors present and voting will be required to uphold the Trial Committee’s decision to remove.
(C.) Cause shown means substantial evidence of serious misconduct.
(D.) Serious misconduct includes, without limitation, disclosure, directly or indirectly, to any public communication medium such as print, television, radio or any other communications device, information about any matter considered by the Board or any committee of the Board under the rule of confidentiality. The foregoing applies to oral deliberations and resolutions, as well as documents presented for consideration by the Board or committee.
Here’s how the Board could discipline itself if it had the inclination. It doesn’t. Go with Article XIII, Section 2.
4 to 6 National Board seats shifts the balance of power back to Membership First and the best interests of membership. Good Luck.
Having given this constant thought, because I cannot wrap my mind around it …
does anyone else think that maybe we are not being gullible here in believing what we’re reading (which has nothing to do with Nikki’s reporting, of course).
Alright. Agreed. Ned Vaughn is not only short bus material, but he needs to be restrained on the bus so as not to hurt himself and/or others.
Oxford, however, is not on the route of the short bus, which itself is a bit shy of Rhodes scholar riders.
Is anyone taking without a grain of salt that David White’s “plan” is to FORCE a contract he thinks “sucked” on membership without a vote by doing nothing and allowing the clock to run out on the LBF offer? If so, no doubt that he wins the worst NED in SAG’s history by a country mile. But are we not to be a bit skeptical that what an NED does with a contract that he has publically stated “sucks” is to GUARANTEE it’s passage by chaining the hands of the membership to the train tracks and forcing us all to get run over by a train chock full of “suckage” which would be absolutely what is guaranteed if these reports are true?
Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. To ramrod a contract that you think “sucks” down your memberships gullets while denying them the vote is the virtual definition of “breach of fiduciary responsibility.”
IF this is true, outrage ain’t the word. But either Rhodes scholarships are now being handed out by staying within the lines with your crayons at least 5% of the time, or something is seriously fishy with the alleged state of affairs as well as the allegations of white’s intent (unless of course, White’s next job after destroying SAG magically appears to be arranged at a exorbitant off-the-charts compensation package existing of a parade of Brinks trucks).
SAG is so out of touch with reality it’s not even funny.
Just last week in austin, tx SAG Members were down in austin begging TEXAS to get incentives passed in TEXAS so more nonunion productions could get paid cash to come to TEXAS and create work for nonunion actors.
One guy named marco something was up there performing and showing exactly why he is never hired for anything (man that was just painful)
and then everyone is screaming for more money for producers to shoot in texas… and SAG was there cheering them on!!!
that’s right, SAG was begging a “right to work” state to finance nonunion work in a state that hates unions.
unbelievable.
I feel sorry for you actors, I really do. But you get what you’re willing to fight for, and unlike the WGA, you’re not willing to fight. As a result, you’ll be facing $100 a day jobs with no residuals or p/w. I may be in the WGA and DGA, but if SAG agrees to a lousy deal, I’ll take full advantage of it. I’ll be shooting “webisodes” galore and you’ll be waiting tables between shoot days. It sucks to write that, but it’s the truth. Your former p/w money will go to good use in other parts of the budget.
When this happens, don’t cry that it’s unfair. It was unfair I had to strike for months without pay, marching round and round a lousy Burbank intersection while you guys rolled into work. If you’re unwilling to stand up for your needs, why should I do it for you?
The WGA might not have won much, but it won something – and I fought for it, suffered for it, lost money, lost projects and professional opportunities. We shut down streets with our marches. We unified. What have you done? Where are your mass rallies? Where are even your B celebrities to attract packed press conferences? The WHOLE WORLD PAYS MONEY!!!! to see and hear you talk, but when it comes to talking for yourself, you remain silent.
When Prop 8 blows up in peoples faces, gays and straights march down Hollywood streets. Yet, when your lively hood is slipping away, you stay home.
When you’re given the greatest grass roots organizing system invented by man- the internet – you use it to bitch at each other on DHD.
“Oh, the humanity” said the radio reporter who watched the grand Hindenburg burn to the ground.
I wonder what words he would have found for SAG.
I’m with Sterling. There’s some off or incomplete in this story (again, having nothing to do with Nikki’s reporting). It simply doesn’t make sense, whether we love or hate the current negotiating team or think they are doing a brilliant job they are not a band of demons. They are not trying to screw the membership, even if we may disagree with either their goals or methods.
I want more information.
Its funny already said the fastest and most effective course of actions is the ELECTIONS, and yet people are still asking what can they do?
1. Legal action: very long process and chances of success are very slim (ask AMJ and AR how there lawsuit is working out)
2. Using SAGs By-Laws to remove an officer: Also a long process and chances are very slim because although anybody could file charges it is the board that would have to remove the officer by a 2/3rds vote (this process is to remove an individual officer because of gross misconduct not because you dislike the board’s policy)
SO ONCE AGAIN THERE IS NOTHING THAT MEMBERSHIP CAN DO BESIDES VOTE IN THE NEXT ELECTION. There is no other legal action or union process that could have any effect bbefore the elections come around. And it is the only course of action that would likely resort in any change anyway. As long as the majority is legally voted to their position you are not likely to usurp their power (once again see how well the current lawsuit by AR & AMJ is working)
So, you all have the answer and I assume you know how to vote, so if you choose to ignore that option… well, then I understand why the union is such a bad place
calm down everyone…in 2000 a man took over the presidency of the united states even though he had less votes, and (allegedly?hahaha) changed votes in florida…
sure the country paid a price in a destroyed economy (along with a destroyed world economy), a ruined environment (gee, it’s gotten hotter lately, hasn’t it?) and many lost lives overseas to change governments in irag over weapons of mass destruction and taliban connections that proved to never have been there
sure, it was quite a price to pay, and it lasted for 8 years…but things change…
sag and working class actors let the ‘powers that be’ win it this time…but history has a way of correcting itself…doesn’t it?
Sterling, I think the key here is that they’re (UFS people) saying one thing and doing another. Whether or not they believe the offer “sucks” (even though they’ve said so) doesn’t seem to matter. They (White and the “task force”) say they’re “negotiating”. They say they want what’s best for SAG members. Neither is true.
They went into the “meeting” with the AMPTP with their (our) hat in their hands, all bent over and greased up ready to take the shit deal (not that it would have been ratified by membership). This is not negotiating. Their job description (all of the board’s, in fact) – their missive – is to do what’s right for the membership and follow the guidelines in the SAG constitution. This isn’t happening either, as we’re being denied our right to vote.
I’m thinking they’ve got a week off from the commercial contract negotiations. I’m thinking they could spend one day of that week addressing the TV/Theatrical contract so it doesn’t go into a default ratification (if they were inclined to stop that from happening). I’m thinking that for four hundred thousand fucking dollars per year, you can work on a Saturday or two to get your fucking job done!
Like any politician, what they say doesn’t matter. It’s what they do that matters. Or don’t do, in this case.
David White’s no fool, supposedly. He’s an intelligent lawyer, supposedly. He’s also a paid puppet. But there is a master plan here – a plan hatched by United For Strength board members and certain NY board members, who share an agenda which is adverse to what the SAG membership at large wants.
As far as the Regional Board (RBD) is concerned – which has assisted in this suicidal coup by voting with the bullies and against the membership – are these followers (frightened lemmings?) agreeing to all of this? How can anyone agree to this, unless they share in the ideals and payoffs of the master plan? What’s in it for you RBD guys? You RBD-ers don’t feel just a little guilty screwing your fellow union members like this? Is this treachery what you signed on for when you voted to oust Doug Allen and precipitate this coup?
It’s not too late to stop this insanity. C’mon – you’re not stupid.
Well, are you?
All this talk of suing the union for breach of fiduciary duty is nonsense. The courts don’t hear such suits except in the rare instance of proof of taking bribes. The fact that you don’t like what the leadership has done will not interest a court at all. And the courts won’t force a vote on a proposed contract. They have no authority to do so. (I’m a lawyer and can speak with some authority on these topics)
If you don’t like what the leadership is doing, you have one option – vote them out at the next election.
As far as removal of officers, your’e going to ask the Board to remove itself for its own misconduct? Are you nuts?
Also if the union doesn’t respond to the last and final offer within 60 days, the employers can implement it but that doesn’t end the situation. The union can still strike.
Ancient Chinese proverb: If you don’t know where you’re going, any road will lead you there.
And its corollary: The trouble with doing nothing is you never know when you are done.
I won’t be able to keep my self afloat if I don’t have those checks to rely on!!!! I’m in my 20’s and I saved every penny I made in high school and college to move here. My parents won’t help me-they don’t support my career path. I along with many others will have to get a full time job to cover all my bills- which means I won’t be able to be an actor anymore.
It’s a sad sad day when your own union uses it’s iron fist to shatter your dreams….Shame on these Hollywood Big Shots who seem to have forgotten the days when they were working actors themselves!!!! I’m all for a peaceful protest on Wilshire if that’s what it’ll take!!!!
Hey…..”Boycott SAG”:
F**k you, you spineless shit for brains…..
How about:
“Unemployment is Los Angeles county is now at 12%. Thank you AMPTP. Jackasses”
Oh of course, silly me….why would you blame yourself?
SAG Member, the rules and bylaws say you need 10% of the Guild Membership in the Hollywood Division to get a vote out to the membership to remove them from SAG. The problem is the person that ratifies/implements it is the NED: David White. So someone has to look into state and fed govt law which states that when an officer of the company refuses to implement governing rules what action can be taken. You know Rosenberg is still the #2 is charge. If someone discovered a rule that said in the absense an officer implementing rules the #2 officer in charge has the legal right to do so, then Rosenberg could facilitate the petition and get the members out.
So who wants to start a website with an online petition to vote out the UFS? voteUFSout.com anyone?
I’d show up to to a rally if someone in a position to organize one would fucking organize it? How do we do that? I don’t have the memberships email addresses to organize one, or I would. Who can do this???
Well SAG members remember tomorrow at Warner Brothers at 11am-2pm is a rally to protest. It was posted on this site. I have been showing up, and I am wondering when the rest of you will appear? It is going to take us showing up in numbers to show that we do not approve of the way our union is being handled, and that we want a vote!!… Hope to see you there.
National Labor Relations Act
Congress enacted the National Labor Relations Act (”NLRA”) in 1935 to protect the rights of employees and employers, to encourage collective bargaining, and to curtail certain private sector labor and management practices, which can harm the general welfare of workers, businesses and the U.S. economy.
TOLL FREE NUMBER:
The Agency also has a toll free telephone number that offers a general description of the Agency’s mission, referrals to other related agencies and access to an Information Officer based upon the caller’s telephone number. A Spanish language option is also available. Toll free access is available by dialing:
1-866-667-NLRB (1-866-667-6572)
or
(TTY) 1-866-315-NLRB (1-866-315-6572) for hearing impaired
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
If you haven’t already done so, please check this site’s Frequently Asked Questions for answers to the most commonly asked questions that we receive. See also our Procedures Guide for critical information on filing a charge or petition.
The NLRB’s Headquarters Mailing Address is:
National Labor Relations Board
1099 14th St. N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20570-0001
DO IT NOW!!!
How much is AMPTP paying David White and his friends? Or is this a life-imitating-art moment where they are really just getting their jollies proving that they can actually do this? Will someone please remind them this is a union of members, not a corporate board room full of back-stabbing climbers.
Why not try a sit in? Or better yet, take over the SAG building. As most of us know, actors need direction. Good luck!!!
I’m strictly a spectator here but being in new media myself, why don’t you guys try using Facebook or create a website with a domain name that’s easy to remember in order to organize? Worked for Obama.
I think since the union hasn’t done much for the last 8 months..we should hold back paying our dues until we see some action.
I SUGGEST EVERYONE READS THE COMMENT BY RICHARD @ 4:17pm !!!
I tried to say the same thing earlier but I think he says it better.
love’s labor lost writes, “It simply doesn’t make sense, whether we love or hate the current negotiating team or think they are doing a brilliant job they are not a band of demons. They are not trying to screw the membership, even if we may disagree with either their goals or methods.”
********
Thank goodness someone still believes UFS aren’t selfish, arrogant, ill-informed, highly-paid series regulars trying to protect their own interests by stripping actors who earn less of their vote and their ability to earn a living and health insurance. That kind of innocence is the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is really refreshing.
Note to “Comment by Comment” — don’t be telling us actors that the membership doesn’t care enough to get a good contract and that somehow we’re less than the WGA. You’re a total ass for saying that if you believe yourself. The real truth is that we have is a crisis of leadership. Not a crisis of the membership wanting to resolve the issue and move on in a satisfactory manner.
The WGA had debate during its strike period, but not a crisis of leadership. SAG actors currently have no leadership, just bickering factions. This is not reflective of the membership at large. The membership would like to do something. But it is hard to do that, especially with a membership the size of a city, without a leader.
Additionally, if you wish us to wait tables and be paid $100/day with no residuals, then fuck you and your projects. May all your projects only be able to find half-ass actors who can’t make a living acting so they have to spend more of their time making a living elsewhere … which means they can’t spend as much of their time sharpening their craft and working at their craft … which means your final project sucks because you have a hard time finding really good actors … especially really good actors who would even consider working for $100/day … which means you can’t make as much money on your project because the quality has suffered. Hmmmmmm. Wonder if you’d care then?
And, it is tremendously short sighted of you to think that the WGA lives in a vacuum and that somehow any issues the DGA, SAG, or AFTRA may be having with the AMPTP somehow are not going to affect the WGA and its members’ future.
The DGA and WGA need to be more supportive of SAG’s membership — without us, you could not direct, you could not have anyone to say your words. Demand leadership of SAG, help SAG find a competent leader if needed — all so that we can have this whole mess be solved. It benefits everyone to have this SAG contract resolved in a satisfactory manner. SAG is your friend — help your friend find her way so that we can get the machine going and all us talented folks can have work.
To all those asking what to do:
The post by Anonymous March 10 @ 1:19pm says it all.
SAG Constitution and ByLaws Article X, Section 2
The Union belongs to the Membership. 100 of you getting 120 signatures of members in good standing can overturn any action of the board and send out a referendum.
This can happen. Act Now instead of blogging and waiting for someone else. Organize.
Don’t need to wait until the next election. Article XIII, section 2
RECALL ANY MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS BY THE BRANCH THAT ELECTED HIM/HER
Section 2. Any officer or member of the Board of Directors elected by Division or Branch may be recalled at any time as follows:
(A.) A written, signed petition of the ten percent (10%) of the members of such Division or Branch, as the case may be, but in no event less than thirty-five (35) members, shall be filed with the National Executive Director together with a statement of the reasons for the petition, not to exceed five hundred (500) words.
(B.) Upon the filing of such petition, the following steps shall be taken:
(1.) The Guild shall promptly determine that the valid signatures of the required number of members have been affixed to the petition;
(2.) Upon determining that the valid signatures of the required number of members have been affixed to the petition, the National Executive Director shall cause notice of the filing of the petition to be given to the person sought to be recalled. Such notice shall be given by certified or registered mail, return receipt requested, and shall be accompanied by a copy of the petition and the statement of reasons therefor.
(3.) The person whose recall is sought by the petition shall have ten (10) days after receipt of such notice within which to file any statement of reasons why the member should not be recalled, which statement shall be limited to five hundred (500) words.
(C.) After the expiration of thirty-five (35) days from the date of filing of the petition and provided the ten (10) day period provided in Section 2(B.)(3.) has passed, a referendum vote shall be taken by written mail ballot of the members of such Branch, or group of
branches or of the General Membership, as the case may be, and shall be determined by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of those voting thereon, according to such rules and regulations as the Board of Directors may from time to time adopt. Statements of the reasons for and against recall shall be mailed together with the referendum ballot.
This process takes the time it takes to gather the minimum signatures + 35 days + the time it takes to mail out the recall referendum and receive the results. Depending on how many signatures you have to get, process could take as few as 40 days. Hollywood Division would have to gather the most signatures. A branch like Portland, perhaps, the least. Take back your union.
@Its The Elections Stupid The SAG lawsuit filed by Rosenberg et al is in California state court and does not invoke a federal cause of action under the Federal Labor Relations Act but is a suit based on California state laws (looking @ the complaint one is breach of duty and the other is violation of the California Business & Professions Code) They could amend the complaint & have it removed to federal court if they want to
@Richard You need to read the case law in the area of the duty of fair representation more closely. There’s more precedent than Marquez v SAG to cite. And it’s nice for you that you’re a lawyer (so am I, although employment & labor law are not my specialty, but when I cite a legal theory I back it up with some precedent or authority while your claim of “The courts don’t hear such suits except in the rare instance of proof of taking bribes” is unsupported by any precedent…would appreciate it if you cited some for me) but there’s precedent for courts intervening in cases of patently wrongful conduct such as racial discrimination and also personal hostility (that’s from Vaca v Sipes).
Members can chose to take the union before either the NLRB or the courts but the courts can offer more kinds of relief including injunctive relief and more importantly to my mind declaratory relief as to what impact the written assent will have on the process by which members have input into the negotiation, administration, interpretation & enforcement of any agreement achieved as well as when waivers might be granted. Indeed for the injunction sought by Rosenberg et al in California state court the judge found most but not all of the conditions for granting an injunction were met. Given what has happened since that time, I think the case is ripe for injunctive & declaratory relief from a federal court which could among other things address the inherent vagueness of many of the terms of the written assent pushed onto SAG’s membership and which began this injurious course for SAG’s members.
Both “Richard” and “It’s the Elections Stupid” have suggested simply voting out the board members. To wit: “If you don’t like what the leadership is doing, you have one option – vote them out at the next election.”
Sure. Fine. That’s great… months from now.
The real problem – the true urgency – is the contract offer being ratified by default, which will happen long before any new board elections. The real, damaging issue is happening now – within the next six weeks.
If either of these posters are truly independent lawyers (and I have my doubts), they’re not contributing to the current problem’s solutions – they’re trying to distract us. They’re suggesting allowing things to happen now (default contract ratification) which cannot be rescinded. That view smacks of shilly-goodness. “Don’t pay any attention to that man behind the curtain…” Yeah, wouldn’t that be great? Don’t pay any attention to what’s right in front of your noses, just notice what the AMPTP wants you to look at – after the damage has been done.
A protest? WTF? Who gives a shit about a protest, the (AMPTP-owned) media?; the (AMPTP-run) studios?; the (AMPTP player) producers in their new Mercedes’ and BMWs?; the back-stabbing above-the-line star/producers wondering why you don’t get out of their way at the studio gate?; the star(AMPTP owned)-struck tourists?; the (AMPTP cowed) IATSE crew-members who already blame SAG for having less work?; the (AMPTP-owned) SAG board?
Wake the hell up, people! While organizing and participating in a protest is a fair release of frustration and anger, the opposition is laughing at shit like that. They are playing on a totally different field than you are. These are the people who are using (barely) legal tactics to overthrow what was once a hugely powerful and fairly-run labor union. You think they care about a little demonstration? If they gave a shit about what you, the protesting membership, wanted, they’d be doing your bidding.
They’re just… not going to give a shit. And what’s worse, they don’t have to.
They’re not giving a shit about what you want; they’re not giving a shit about what’s right; they’re not giving a shit about what’s proper within SAG management, protocol and leadership; they’re not giving a shit about the future of SAG; they’re not giving a shit about what former SAG members fought and sacrificed for; they’re not giving a shit about ethics; they’re not giving a shit about their own personal integrity; they don’t even give half a shit about this contract offer. It’s all about agenda. The end justifies the means, in their eyes. “Merge with AFTRA at any/all cost (because we think that should happen). And if you don’t agree with me/us, tough shit. We have control and we’re doing it anyway.”
We need legal assistance, not protests. We need to handle this in court. We need someone to stand up and tell us how to change the tack that the current SAG “leadership” is on – and how to reverse that course, and we need it now, not in seven months. We need someone who knows the ins and outs of union contract laws and limitations.
Voting, schmoting. This is a legal issue. So who’s it gonna be?
I hear Doug Allen’s available, bored at the moment, and sitting well, financially.
C’mon Doug. I know your pride is wounded (for bullshit reasons), and I know how personally you took these negotiations when you were sitting at the table. Now would be a great time to resurface and show both SAG and the AMPTP that you truly do have the integrity (and balls) you showed while you were our NED. I’m not saying you owe us for what you’ve been paid. What I am saying is that your SAG membership needs you.
Bring it.
SAG members you have to ask the question who is representing the guild legally?
Who is giving labor law advise to the new group via their coup d’etat?
Which law firm ? Could it be the same labor law firm representing large IATSE locals?
Could it be the same law firm that the $650,000.00 Executive Director of the DGA came out of?
The same law firm the Melissa Patack of the MPAA came out of?
The same law firm the facilitated the ouster of the Cinematographers Guild President prior to the current self inflated, self promoting flop of Executive Director Bruce Doering’s?
I think the answer might be a resounding yes.
If that is the case, you are f…ked!
Comment for Comment-
And while you are shooting your non-union webisode how can you be sure the actors will come back to work after lunch? They may find another gig down the street that pays better,maybe even waiting tables. The studios are nuts if they think they can control the comings and goings around this sort of proposed arrangement. I think I’ll get one of those jobs and hike in the middle of the day just for fun.You guys don’t get actors.
All right, you numbskulls.
You don’t have a list, well boo-hoo. I assume you people all know each other.
A few of you get together. Each of you know ten dues paid members don’t you???
Send and e-mail to 30 people, ask them each to send it to all the members they know.
Attach the petition and a signature sheet, and set a date and a place for this chain petition to be delivered, and then fucking be there.
You’ll get several hundred to a few thousand signature AND e-mail addresses the first time. Then do it again with all the e-mail addresses you gather.
You’ll also have some people pop to help. It’ll be an ass-load of work, but you’ll enjoy the hell out of it because for the first time in you life you’ll actually be doing somethin, instead of hoping to be given the chance to act like a person who does something.
And hell if none of you have the god-given sense to do somthing so easilly manageable, then at least writers will no longer be the assumed lowest life form in the biz – you actors will have forever proven yourselves to be.
And hey, I like most of you young actors I meet, I know it’s tough without all this crap, but god all mighty, why don’t you quit bending over and taking up the ass. Just a few of you can do way more than you would ever imagine, if you’d just imagine it.
Just don’t get too carried away imagining – there are more than enough writers to go around
Good luck.
And PS – I don’t think you’re board would be doing this to a bunch of teamsters. Why might that be????
Unite For Strength, with the help of NY and RBD, may be close to pulling off what they originally wanted to achieve all along. Remember how UFS started? Qualified Voting? Remember? Over a year ago Ned Vaughn and Amy Brenneman met with Rosenberg, Johnson, Allen and a few others to discuss implementing Qualified Voting before the beginning of the W&W process of 2008. They came with a petition of over 1000 signatures of supposed SAG members, demanding limiting those who would be allowed to vote on the tv/theatrical contract. Vaughn et al demanded that Prez Rosenberg place qualified voting on the agenda of the next national board meeting, to be fast tracked to implementation. When they were told that it wasn’t as easy as they thought and that it would take much planning and maybe an amendment to the constitution, Vaughn threatened that if it wasn’t done before the tv/theatrical contract was sent out for ratification, then there would be an uprising and a new slate to take over and turnover the administration. This was all based on qualified voting. And when Vaughn was denied the opportunity to speak in front of the National Board about their qualified voting plan, well…. the dye was cast. Remember all of that? And now here we are. UFS “took over” the national board, dismantled the administration and guest what is next? Qualified Voting. But they have out-done themselves. Now Vaughn, Brenneman et al want to deny all of us the right to vote, not just those who UFS deem not good enough or experienced enough or financially sound enough to vote. Based on the vote during the other night’s Hollywood Board meeting, it appears that UFS would rather the AMPTP force the LBF on us with or without our vote. That’s why UFS/NY/RBD are dragging their feet. They want to do nothing and let the imposed 60 days come and go, therefore allowing the AMPTP to promulgate the LBF. The ULTIMATE of qualified voting. Vaughn and other UFS’ers believe the people must qualified to determine our contracts are our employers. Certainly not us, the members. UFS has gone full circle. UFS has actually implemented Qualified voting without actually having to vet it by the appropriate committees or without the entire national board debating and then voting on it. Oh yeah, isn’t that how they fired Doug Allen, replaced the negotiating committee, gagged the president, hired White and promoted McGuire? If anything else, they are consistent.
We cannot let this go unnoticed. They have to be held accountable. People, wake up. Why do they not want to send out the LBF for our vote? They know that this membership would vote it DOWN!! That’s what they are scared shitless about. UFS/NY/RBD will never support anything more than complete ratification. Then once they’ve achieved that, its onto MERGER. And we all know where that will lead us. If we cannot reverse what these people have done, we can certainly ensure that they are voted out and off of the board. They are not leaders. They are destroyers. They are AFTRA/AMPTP operatives. They are elitists. They believe THEY know what is best for us. What have they gotten right? What have they done in the past 6 months that has been beneficial for SAG? Have they brought unity to the union? More power? More leverage? A better contract? A better, stronger negotiator? For those of you who truly believe in UFS/NY/RBD and their actions, please tell me what they have done that has benefited SAG. I don’t need to hear about what you all think of MF. (I’ve already heard that) I would like to hear what you folks believe UFS has done that has been positive for SAG. Please, share.
OK I give up. Some of you are determined to argue there is a better course of action than the elections. So go ahead waste your time. But I will leave with this, have looked at who the alternates are? Even if you were to succeed in removing a board member before elections, the alternates would take their position. Sorry, but go ahead and waste your time but no change is coming before the elections (and maybe not then either – maybe thats why some are hell bent on doing something before elections is because they are afraid of what the outcome would be).
Also as far as the AMPTP imposing the terms of the contract on the union, those terms would not be legally binding on the union like a ratified contract by membership. Therefore, the union could revisit the terms of the contract or strike at any time. But I don’t think you really have to be concerned about the AMPTP imposing the contract on you anyway. The terms of the expired contract you are working on more favorable to them so there is no reason for them to force an increase of rates through. The only reason the AMPTP is willing to give the increases is because a ratified contract gives them labor certainty through the term of the contract – they wouldnt get that if they imposed the terms. So, its highly unlikely that the terms of the LBFO would be imposed on the union after 60 days (just like the previous LBFO was not imposed after it was offered last summer), and even if it was it is not the same as a binding contract so it could be revisited after the elections (or any time for that matter).
funny how some people leave out these little facts about what exactly it means to have the terms of the contract imposed as if it means SAG is binded to work under those terms for 3 years.
To Working Actor:
>don’t be telling us actors that the membership doesn’t care enough
> to get a good contract and that somehow we’re less than the WGA.
> You’re a total ass for saying that if you believe yourself. The real
> truth is that we have is a crisis of leadership. Not a crisis of
> the membership wanting to resolve the issue and move on in
> a satisfactory manner.
If you don’t like your leadership, vote them out. If you’re sitting at home whining and bitching – like you are now – instead of working the phones and internet to organize, taking to the streets, then your degree of care doesn’t get past your computer keyboard.
> The membership would like to do something.
Like what other than bickering? What’s holding you back? Is the door locked? Phone line disconnected?
>Additionally, if you wish us to wait tables and be paid $100/day
> with no residuals, then fuck you and your projects. May all
> your projects only be able to find half-ass actors who can’t make
> a living acting so they have to spend more of their time making
> a living elsewhere … which means they can’t spend as much of
> their time sharpening their craft and working at their craft …
> which means your final project sucks because you have a hard
> time finding really good actors … especially really good actors
> who would even consider working for $100/day … which means
> you can’t make as much money on your project because the
> quality has suffered. Hmmmmmm. Wonder if you’d care then?
You live in an idealized world and ignore market forces. Unless you are an actor whose name brings in money or the production company has such a hard-on for that they’re willing to pay extra money, market forces will drive the actor daily rate down. In other words, unless you are irreplaceable, you will either have to work for $100 per day or you will not work. That’s why we have union minimums – to keep the daily rates from being driven into the ground. Since you, like all actors, will want to catch the brass ring and break into the high-pay acting range, you will take the shit paying jobs…. or you’ll drop out of the acting business.
As for actors spending their time “sharpening their craft and working their craft”, get over yourself. Nobody cares. You think no other people in this business dedicate time to sharpening their craft? You think when I sell a script, I get paid for all the scripts I wrote but didn’t sell? We all get paid what the market is willing to pay, with a minimum of what the unions negotiated.
Oh, and the last time you auditioned for a role, how many actors were sitting across from you in that room? Where they all abysmal actors and you the only Oscar winner? If a production finds two actors of similar skill and utility, guess which one they’re hire?… the less expensive one. With over 100,000 actors in LA, guess how less expensive less expensive can get.
BTW, I do care about actors a lot. Acting, above all else, makes or breaks a film. I’ve seen enough phenomenal actors who already make little money simply because they’re not “name” actors. But that poor situation is about to get a lot worse.
> And, it is tremendously short sighted of you to think that the
> WGA lives in a vacuum and that somehow any issues the DGA,
> SAG, or AFTRA may be having with the AMPTP somehow
> are not going to affect the WGA and its members’ future.
I don’t think the WGA lives in a vacuum. Don’t project. All the unions need to thrive. However, that doesn’t mean I need to subsidize your lazy asses if you don’t fight for yourself.
>The DGA and WGA need to be more supportive of SAG’s
> membership — without us, you could not direct, you could
> not have anyone to say your words.
Oh, brother…..
> Demand leadership of SAG, help SAG find a competent leader
> if needed — all so that we can have this whole mess be solved.
I could demand the Chinese stop eating dogs, but guess what? Only the Chinese get to decide what they eat. Same here. We’re talking about the Screen ACTORS!!!!! Guild. You __ACTORS__ need to fix you’re union. Why the hell are you asking non-actors to do the work for you? Shesssshhhh… am I to get a latte to your green room while I picket for you too?
To James Cagney:
Glad to see you’re up and about.
> And while you are shooting your non-union webisode how can
> you be sure the actors will come back to work after lunch?
Because if they bail once and they won’t be cast again, and bye-bye acting career. And with no acting career, there’s no chance of an actor reaching a level where they can demand $$$millions to be in a film.
> The studios are nuts if they think they can control the comings
> and goings around this sort of proposed arrangement.
> I think I’ll get one of those jobs and hike in the middle of
> the day just for fun.You guys don’t get actors.
And you don’t get reality.
tentoes…
You are genius.
I’ve never seen actors EVER take a concerted action together like writers, longshoremen and other union people.
And, sadly, they won’t this time either.
Oh… Working Actor and James Cagney….
Even with all I wrote, if actors organize and fight for their rights, I’ll be there to support you. I’ll march along your side like a few actors marched along mine.
But you got to take the initiative!
Sadly all points, from all sides can be argued, and since I’ve been here…going back to the late 80’s all I’ve seen is unintelligent leadership. It isn’t just Reardon or Rosenberg, and it isn’t just Allen or White. It is 20+ years of being “late” on everything. The most tragic, and still valid mistake we’ve made as a group of professionals (ALL OF US) is watching technology change without changing our “landscape internally” FIRST. The fact that we “as performers” (and this is not about merger) still have the same TYPE of contract negotiated by BOTH Aftra and SAG…it leaves room for the very type of discord the AMPTP can now use against us…and for that WE are at fault. Sadly I agree that far too many actors are not suited to “lead” and we have sat back way too much during the 90’s and just “let it happen…to us.” This include MF, UFS, and any other acronym you wanna come up with…including but not limited to Melissa and Patty Duke’s time in office. Just pathetic.
Hey Comment by comment,
I hear you, but need I remind you that I walked that lousy corner in Burbank with you. Me and most other SAG actors I know had zero jobs during the WGA strike. We stood up for your needs.
I’m not saying SAG hasn’t fucked this from every angle, but coming off the WGA strike I know I couldn’t afford a SAG strike and hoped that actors (and the rest of LA could get back to work)
For me, it wasn’t about not having the convictions to strike, but about getting back to work after months of not working because of the WGA strike. And like you said, the WGA did not win much – and what you won, we helped you win. SAG members fought for your deal, suffered for it, lost money, lost projects and professional opportunities because of it just like you. And all your celebrities at rallies and conferences were SAG members! You’re welcome.
When you say why should you stand up for our rights, its very telling. The answer is because we stood up for yours. If SAG had gone on strike I wonder how much support we would have gotten from the WGA
To Comment by comment and will work for food:
Because of the WGA strike L.A. and California LOST BIG TIME and STILL are losing because of your wonderful strike, hence the 12% unemployment in L.A. Thanks a lot for our lack of concern for anyone but yourselves: actors and writers both are insufferable idiots. And I have family that are both and I see from a personal level and observation.
Lindsey,
It wasn’t my choice for the WGA to go on strike. They probably shouldn’t have. And I am a SAG member who does NOT want and would NOT vote for a SAG strike. I, like you and the rest of California, simply cannot afford it. I am thinking of myself (its hard not to looking at my empty checking account) but I’m hardly only thinking of myself. All I’ve wanted since this mess started was for LA to get back to work, and I’m willing to concede defeat for now and live to fight another day for that to happen.
Lindsey: “Because of the WGA strike L.A. and California LOST BIG TIME and STILL are losing because of your wonderful strike, hence the 12% unemployment in L.A.”
And then that pesky WGA started that war in Iraq and now they’re moving us into Afghanistan. And how about that WGA traffic on the 405? And when will the WGA lower gasoline prices? And don’t even get me started on the WGA link Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.
Is there anything in Doug Allen’s deal that prevents him from working on actor’s behalf even though he’s been fired? Maybe he can help us fight White and Unite for Shite. We’re still paying him so maybe he can still work for us? I would love to attend a meeting and listen to him talk now that he’s out of the matter.
@ Comment by Comment:
Um, the Chinese don’t eat dog. That’s Koreans.
And you have no idea what Working Actor has done besides bitching about injustice here. Don’t assume.
@ Lindsey:
Your present isn’t worth actors (and writers) destroying their futures. Sorry, it just isn’t.
They will never willingly give up residuals just to please your selfish demand that they think more about you than their own financial security. Quit acting like you didn’t know the risk when you got into this business — you only have yourself to blame for not having seen the coming WGA strike and preparing for it.
You want to blame someone? Blame the utterly unreasonable demands from the union-busting AMPTP, the real culprits and cause of your hardship.
This is an abomination of our Union. Somebody is getting payola to throw us under the bus. Gee the poor studios have no money, they’re down tot heir last 100 billion. GREED by the studios and WEAK leadership in SAG since the departure of Mr. William Daniels is the main problem…LEADERS WHO WANT TO BE PRODUCERS SO BAD THEY WILL FUCK ALL OF US OVER FOR THEIR VANITY PROJECTS!!! And to the WGA/DGA member who said we’ll be working for $100 a day or waiting tables and you’ll shoot webisodes..THIS IS WHAT ALL MAJOR CORPORATIONS WANT—US TO FIGHT AMONGST OURSELVES..YEAH THE WORKERS ARE THE BLAME…REMEMBER THIS YOU RICH GREEDY BASTARDS….WITHOUT WORKERS YOU GOT $0.00
WITHOUT A FAIRLY PAID WORK FORCE WE WILL BE A SURFDOM!!! REPUBLICANS WANT TO BREAK OUR UNIONS AND PAY YOU $4 AN HOUR. IF I’M FULL OF SHIT, YOU ARE THE ANDY GUMP.
Angry SAG MEMBER
Love your rant partner and I think Comment would agree.But for the record. Most of the mogul-heads and their SAG hating ’star’ apologists are major Obama supporters. Can you believe Barack would have friends like these assholes? And we think WE have problems.
Dear Membership,
Unite For Strength ran on a “Qualified Voting” platform. When they realized that they NEEDED the votes from the very members whose votes they wanted to TAKE AWAY, they backed off of that platform
Well, WOW.
This “Qualified Voting” is astounding.
Apparently, you can’t qualify to vote on a SAG contract now unless you are on the BOARD and on the NY, Regional, or UFS ticket.
I guess being a Screen Actors Guild member DISQUALIFIES YOU FOMR VOTING FOR CONTRACTS THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH.
I’m sorry, this sounds A LOT like FASCISM.
I think I’ll start a new Actors Union where Democracy is guaranteed and you can only be a member if you’re willing to stand up for proper contracts.
“I think I’ll start a new Actors Union where Democracy is guaranteed and you can only be a member if you’re willing to stand up for proper contracts.”
I’m sorry, Justine. You are right. It is the only way if you want a strong union, you’ll have to start over from scratch. SAG is not a union. SAG is a giant shell game.
Good luck. You have my support.
Uh, Luzid….
Chinese DO eat dog meat. For starters, google “china dog meat” and then read a little. Don’t assume – ya know.
As for Working Actor, he hasn’t mentioned that he did anything other then bitch. If you know differently, please share.
Justine, seriously, read up on your history, learn something other than your misaligned INSTINCT. Fascism? since when is a movement based on open communication and thoughtful action Fascism? Your disgusting comments re other actors and your contributions to squashing information outflow from the Guild is fascist. Look in the mirror.
For the rest of you, should the only people concerned about this contract be people who DON”T work? People with a job have no say? Get real. Start a union for actors who don’t work, and get out of a union that protects working members when they work.
macb – Okay, please cite your examples now of open communication and thoughtful action on the part of SAG’s working majority.