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Dear SAG Board Members, officers and staff:We feel very strongly that SAG members should not vote to authorize a strike at this time. We don't think that an authorization can be looked at as merely a bargaining tool. It must be looked at as what it is -- an agreement to strike if negotiations fail.
We support our union and we support the issues we're fighting for, but we do not believe in all good conscience that now is the time to be putting people out of work.
None of our friends in the other unions are truly happy with the deals they made in their negotiations. Three years from now all the union contracts will be up again at roughly the same time. At that point if we plan and work together with our sister unions we will have incredible leverage.
As hard as it may be to wait those three years under an imperfect agreement, we believe this is what we must do. We think that a public statement should be made by SAG recognizing that although this is not a deal we want, it is simply not a time when our union wants to have any part in creating more economic hardship while so many people are already suffering.
Let's take the high road. Let's unite with our brothers and sisters in the entertainment community and prepare for the future, three years down the line. Then, together, let's make a great deal.
Sincerely,
Alan Alda
Jason Alexander
Dave Annable
René Auberjonois
Diane Baker
Bob Balaban
Alec Baldwin
William Baldwin.
Barbara Beck
Ed Begley, Jr
Maria Bello
Barbara Bosson
Bruce Boxleitner
Josh Brolin
Pierce Brosnan
David Boreanaz
Blair Brown
Lizzy Caplan
Jennifer Carpenter
Steve Carrell
Mark Cassen
Erika Christensen
George Clooney
Glenn Close
Scott Cohen
Jack Coleman
Stephen Collins
Peter Coyote
James Cromwell
Billy Crystal
Matt Damon
Ted Danson
James Darren
Bruce Davison
James Denton
Brian Dennehy
Danny DeVito
Cameron Diaz
Garret Dillahunt
Larry Dorf
Minnie Driver
Olympia Dukakis
Patty Duke
Charles S. Dutton.
Shelley Fabares
Bill Fagerbakke
Mike Farrell
Sally Field
Kate Flannery
Morgan Freeman
Jennifer Garner
Teri Garr
Melissa Gilbert
Sara Gilbert
John Goodman
Christopher Gorham
Heather Graham
Kelsey Grammer
Jennifer Grey
Michael Gross
Christopher Guest
Annabelle Gurwitch
Michael C. Hall
Tom Hanks
Tess Harper
Mariette Hartley
Ed Helms
Marilu Henner
Cheryl Hines
Felicity Huffman
Helen Hunt
Jeremy Irons
Kathryn Joosten
Carol Kane
Diane Keaton
Jamie Kennedy
Mimi Kennedy
TR Knight
Sarah Knowlton
John Krasinski
Diane Lane
Michele Lee
Lucy Liu
Rob Lowe
Tobey Maguire
Janel Maloney
Camryn Manheim
Marlee Matlin
Melanie Mayron
Andrew McCarthy
Mary McCormack
Chris McDonald
Neal McDonough
Rob McElhenney
Ewan McGregor
Eva Mendes
Debra Messing
Helen Mirren
James Naughton
Edward Norton
Michael Nouri
Gail O'Grady
Kaitlin Olson
Sam Page
Eva Longoria Parker
Adrian Pasdar
Steve Pasquale
Rhea Perlman
Jaimie Pressley
Jason Ritter
John Saxon
William Schallert
Adam Scott
Tony Shalhoub
Armin Shimerman
Christian Slater
Kevin Spacey
Jerry Sroka
Mary Steenburgen
Marcia Strassman
Brenda Strong
Donald Sutherland
Kitty Swink
David Tadman
Jeffrey Tambor
Charlize Theron
Ally Walker
Tracey Walter
Belinda Waymouth
Bradley Whitford.
Lee Wilkoff
Brian Wimmer
Kevin Zegers
Louis Zorich
Stars Urge "No" Vote To Authorize Strike
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Check and mate.
Buh bye, Alan. Thanks for playing.
About time!
Finally some common sense from these high profile members of SAG. Fantastic news!
AMEN.
Thank you all for speaking up.
Now THAT is an impressive list!
About fuckin’ time somebody started puttin’ this list together.
I agree one hundred percent.
Mesthinks they got the more impressive list
“Three years from now all the union contracts will be up again..”
Talk about a LAME argument.
Bless you all. Good to see SOME people in this business give a damn about someone other than themselves.
You wanted A listers. here they are
Bless You for this.
Times are too tough right now for more people to lose their jobs.
R.I.P. Actor’s strike of 2009.
And thank goodness for that.
I think in the end actors have to vote in their own self interest – these guys all did. Because they work above scale, and have projects lined up for the next few months, atleast.
Their sacrafice will be a different one – although they aren’t affected by the terms and conditions of the new contract as much as back ground and other actors, the strike will cost them wages in terms of not being able to work duringthe strike.
Tricky stuff…
Finally…..thank you.
As a fellow SAG member, I thank you and support you.
Kind of puts the SAG yes vote list to shame as far as star power.
Most of these ’stars’ already have vested pensions and millions in the bank. What do they care if the day players can’t make a living from acting anymore if we sign the crappy AMPTP deal on the table. I can guarantee that if we sign our residuals away, like we did with DVD, no one is going to give us a better deal three years from now. These same people will be signing another letter then urging SAG not to grow a spine. AMPTP doesn’t bargain in good faith unless they’re forced to. Vote YES on Strike Authorization.
Another AMEN..finally some actors with some sense. I think you guys deserve better too…but you will have more power if you stand together with the other unions!!!! Do it then, when the other contracts come up…….and really stick it to these assholes (the AMPTP).
It seems as if my union cannot stop shooting itself in the foot. As much as we believe the AMPTP is not offering a fair deal, one similar to the one the WGA is having to try to enforce based on lack of payments, there appears to be too many factions talking “out of school” to negotiate effectively at this point.
Yes, the economy is bad. Yes, it would be terrible for people to lose jobs and income at this point in America’s economic history; as it would be terrible even if times were better economically. But that is what negotiations are made of. Hard decisions. Resolute purpose. Sacrificing now for something better down the road. It is fairly apparent to me that the future of distribution will be in new media. Is is really intelligent for the unions to forget this reality? As we negotiate it must be with a vision of what the future could be. The future is new technology.
Unions, negotiations and strikes are not for the feint of heart. Never have been and never will be. This is what blue collar union workers have known for decades. It’s not a make believe, happy ending, Hollywood sacrifice. There is loss. There is hardship. There is purpose in spite of these things. However, between AFTRA, SAG NY, and now our star “brothers and sisters” and there decree, how can anything be resolved effectively? Maybe it is time to settle before we continue with the self-inflicted wounds.
Although the way these negotiations have gone I don’t know if three years is long enough find a common ground in the ranks of SAG or partnership with AFTRA.
Now let’s see if Alan is foolish enough to call those on this list “subversive” as he did the the NY board. He cancelled Friday’s meeting with the NY board so he would not have to hear their opinions – guess you can’t hide from this list, can you Al?
Sure the big name actors want to take the deal. It won’t affect them. They will still get big bucks per job and control of their likenesses and residuals. The deal is for all the people who are NOT household names and have no leverage. It’s for the folks who have recurring roles on shows, not the stars. It’s for the character actors.
The A listers will always be fine no matter the deal with the studios. But, residuals help the rest of the working actors put their kids through college and food ont he table.
I’d love to work with these multi-millionaires for a fraction of what they make, i.e. for scale, but their interests are not my interests. I don’t have a big mortgage in Malibu or on Mulholland.
If I had their career, I would vote the same way. But that is not my situation along with the overwhelming majority of the membership.
Commercial companies figured out a few years ago that they could buy SAG actors out for a period of time for unlimited use on the Internet to sell their products. But not the studios, no way – they won’t even talk.
I’m happy that the above people are doing so well but the truth is why in the hell would I ever let some millionaire actor, or producer or director or writer or crew member for that matter, force me to vote against my interests and those of my family? No way.
Sounds a lot like the Republican Senators coercing the UAW to rollback their salaries to non-union levels in exchange for supporting the bailout of GM, Ford and Chrysler. Those union-busting Senators can go to hell.
The more “big” names on the list, the more irrelevant it becomes. These folks can negotiate any deal they want. Alan R. is fighting for the minimum actors can be compensated for. Of course, the names on the list don’t want a strike. Why would they?
“I got mine” should be their motto.
Most of the names on the list are capable of negotiating their own above-scale contracts. They are obviously not thinking of the rank-and-file middle-class actor.
A non-star actor
This list represents about 140 votes out of 120,000. They’re mostly millionaires who don’t have to worry about what’s in the contract… they write their own deals. A working middle class actor making under $100K a year will be ruined by the AMPTP contract on the table. If the vote goes ahead, don’t be surprised if the rank and file vote to protect their future in this business… not the future of the people on this list who already have enough money to live for the rest of their lives.
So the rich way-above-scale actors are comfortable with the 6-figure and some 7 and 8 figure deals their agents negotiate for them–some negotiating a producer credit as well. Consider it noted.
Why don’t these celebrities put their money where their hypocritical mouths are and write a letter to their golf buddies at the AMPTP encouraging them to give SAG’s rank and file a square deal?
It’s shameful.
i work w/ 3 of those actors! they are absolutley right!!
Well, these people are just voting with their pocketbooks. Stars don’t depend on residuals for their income. It’s the struggling actors who do. And I think that they will vote YES.
As some have said above: game… set… match. The signatories of this letter have made the right call. They understand the implications of both a “yes” vote on the strike authorization and the pragmatic reality of what a work action would mean to hundreds of thousands of people in this economy.
It would be great if some of the more militant pro-strike advocates who post on this board would follow their lead and spend less of their energy angrily advocating for yes votes and work stoppages and more time coming up with proposals on how to move forward.
Still, a major sigh of relief that it appears the tide has turned and the de facto we’ve all been struggling with might actually end in January instead of becoming an actual strike. Here’s hoping.
History teaches us one thing only: we NEVER learn. 20 years ago, the producers f**ked over the guilds on home video – promising to revisit the formula “the next time”. Several billion dollars later… the producers are now laying the groundwork for a new media deal that will benefit them for the next few decades at the expense of the guilds. And three (and twenty) years from now when the producers are reporting blockbuster-sized revenue streams from new media to Wall Street from one side of their mouths while telling the guilds that they’re not yet ready to bump scale payments or residuals… I trust that the illustrious group listed above will sit quietly in the corner and figure out how best to apologize to the day players they hosed.
Why sign a deal at all? What nobody on this list addresses are three pertinent facts:
1) When has the last time new media has been addressed in a later contract? If any of these people think they’ll get internet money addressed in the next contract, they’re insane. The landscape will be vastly different three years down the road.
2) $60 million in force majuere payments – are all of these people basically telling the AMPTP they’re off the hook paying what they owe the actors? And without strike authorization, are any of them that delusional they’ll see those payments? If they are, how about…
3) The money the AMPTP owes the writers under the terms of the new contract. If the writers aren’t collecting what’s owed, what makes these guys think they will?
There is no job these days that comes with guarantees of employment, as many people are in the process of finding out now, so why should one screw oneself long-term for a paycheck or two now with nothing to show for later (AKA residuals)?
And what — should Alan come out BIGGER list? This is stupid and should not be played out in public — this should be done behind closed doors. When you play it like this everyone looses, it’s called DIVIDE AND CONQUER! And we are playing right into the AMPTP’s hands . . . SAD!
Once the internet goes Non-Union for Actors, it goes Non-union for everyone.
Not only is it A listers but numerous well known liberals (Alda, A. Baldwin, Clooney, Crystal, etc). I’d be astounded if the strike authorization passes after this.
The SAG negotiators cut their own unorganized throat. They have no leverage. If they strike TV will go AFTRA. Tent poles are already shot for next year. They’ve got nothing to hold over the producers. That sound you hear Alan is you being replaced.
This is a great list of A-List Actors who don’t need ANY residuals to pay their rent. I, however, do. I understand that a strike could be devastating, but the current pay distribution has already whacked the majority of we “Middle Class Actors”. Our incomes have decreased by over 40% through the last decade. It’s going to go down more as the residual payments continue to dry up due to content streaming over the internet.
Our acting jobs come across as part time because we only work a couple days a week at most. However, we are on call 24/7 for this work. My wife and I both have other jobs in order to make ends meet. This cannot be allowed to continue. If the people on that list really cared about this current contract they would guarantee that actors on their shows make a living wage.
That’s what this contract is about. A living wage.
As a WGA member, I shake my head and feel sorry for the people on this list – they do not understand the slippery slope they’re on. They are doomed to lose and continue to lose bargaining power in their business.
As a producer, I say, well, okay, it just gets easier for me to make money and not share with the actors.
If they don’t respect their worth, why should I?
You get what you are willing to stand up for. Good bye SAG, hello everybody’s a free agent…
“We support our union and we support the issues we’re fighting for”, but not if it means getting tough in negotiations and having some leverage in the talks, which you now don’t. Why not just resurrect Neville Chambelain and say “we have peace in our time.?”
SAG can say goodbye to the middle and working class actors. SAG did the same thing on VHS, gave it away, said they’ll get it back at the next round, but never did.
As Shirley Bassey sings, “It’s history repeating.”
123 SAG Members = ~0.1% of SAG membership
This letter is meaningless.
The quick flurry of one line congratulatory posts afterward are just as staged as the letter. No one said the AMPTP was going to play nice with this. Clearly, a strike scares the shit out of them and they are playing for keeps (i.e. to keep all future revenue). Remember they HATE the idea of residuals.
Do yourself a favor and read Fatal Subtraction to see how the studios really operate. If you ever thought they were on-the-level honest businessmen, it will be real eyeopener. And if you think they are crooks, you have no idea.
The three years down the road argument is just a way to get this deal done and in writing as precedent after which it will NEVER, EVER be undone. LOOK AT HISTORY. It has NEVER happened, and NEVER will, just like DVDs, a dying technology that is still a non-starter deal breaker. Precedent is King. That is why THIS CONTRACT is so important. That is why they will stop at NOTHING to set anti-actor/writer/director precedent. THEY ALMOST HAVE IT. They have it with the Directors and with the Writers. Actors are the final domino they have to topple…
The real question is why these “A-listers” aren’t putting the pressure where it belongs, on their masters the studios. Perhaps some are actually more producer than actor. Perhaps some don’t want to have to part with their private jet over some silly matter like New Media residuals when it really doesn’t pertain to them anymore. Maybe some of them can negotiate their own contracts without help from the union. Besides the studios, they are the real scumbags in this, hiding their greed and self-interest behind populist platitudes about the good of the economy while 99% of their “fellow” actors suffer. They don’t give two shits about any economy other than their own. When the fuck is someone going to stand up this shit?
Thank God. And no cries of “AMPTP Shills!” on this site yet, so double Thank God.
Sign, work, live to fight another day.
Agreed! it’s a crappy deal but SAG can renegotiate and w. the others unions at their side
In three years the economy won’t be any better, and there sure as hell won’t be a better contract. This is just the beginning.
THANK YOU!
Alan Rosenberg: End this thing by Christmas! Those of us struggling and suffering need something, anything, to give us hope going into the holidays. If you prolong this insanity into January you will further wreck the lives of SAG & IATSE members, our kids, businesses, restaurants, store owners, and the whole city of Los Angeles.
End this thing now. Forget about covering your ass or trying to save face. Do it swiftly.
I’ve read both lists, and I’m curious… If you take out the names of people who are currently working on shows or are making deals in excess of the minimums, who do you have left? What about when you take out Trek actors who aren’t working so much anymore anyway? Then who’s left?
The majority of these folks are fairly successful and don’t have much trouble getting work. Are they really the voice of the actor who has two OTHER jobs to make ends meet?
I’m open to both arguments, but I would rather hear the opinions of people who work for “minimum wage.”
Do what the millionaires say!
They know best!
You can kiss residuals goodbye. Everything Sag has fought for over the years… goodbye. The studios will fight you ten times harder in three years when the economy has recovered. You people don’t get it! They will prepare for your multi-union strike and have shit stockpiled for years. They will wait you out and you will cave. It’s over. You will never make back what you will sign away if you agree to this contract. And, trust me, in three years they will have figured out how to completely cook the books on new media. I worked for these people. They are five steps ahead of you. The only way to beat them is at their own game. This is a perfect time to get them. Not when things are going well, because, if things are going good for you, they are a hundred times better for them. Three years from now you are fucked.
This is why the studios will always win. At the end of the day, nobody in this business has any balls to truly stand up to them. And its certainly not the names on this list. They are rich and could give a shit about you. If they wanted to help the worked class actor they would do it now, but, they won’t. In three years you’re going to have to put a lot more people out of work for a much longer time. You’re kidding yourselves if you think it will be easier. It won’t. The studios are getting prepared right now for your perfect fight. They will never give you back what you are about to sign away. Have they ever? No. Remember that when you’re voting…
THANK YOU! People are scared, thanks for stepping up to the plate and displaying kindness and concern for others.
No one is RIGHT OR WRONG. This is YOUR vote. You decide what works for YOU. Listen to both sides and make the decision that works in YOUR career. I will be voting for the strike because I feel we have to start now to protect ourselves from future losses on the internet. In 3 years the issue will be moot. I don’t need celebrities to make my decision. I’d like to hear from the actors who used to make a living as guest stars and co-stars on TV and did a commercial now and then. Can I see a hundred of their names on an open letter?
“You get what you are willing to stand up for.” I like that M.E. Tinker
Big stars, shmig stars. Who cares?
I just saw this everyman’s take on the strike vote on youtube and I’m going to the SAG meeting Wednesday to support my union instead of supporting the AMPTP, George Clooney, Tom Hanks, Jennifer Garner and their neighbors who signed the above letter from their homes in the Palisades, Malibu, Bel Air…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwME8xRWeQM
For all of you who say this letter is meaningless, keep in mind that many of these successful actors bring in a huge amount of money to the pension and health plans – money that subsidizes the benefits of actors who don’t make as much. Many of these people have full pensions so whatever P&H contributions come in under their name do not go to them anymore but to the rest of the acting community. If they get frustrated enough to leave the fold because our leadership simply refuses to see the light, what goes with them is the subsidizing of your pension and health plan along with a considerable sum in dues that is used to run the union itself. This results in what? A considerable depletion of union resources simply because those who don’t make as much can’t keep the thing afloat themselves. Seriously…wake up!! These people don’t need to stick their necks out. They are stepping up because they care about these issues. Calling them shills of the AMPTP just because they are successful is a load of crap in my opinion and sounds more like jealously than reality. These people want the business to keep going for everyone’s sake, not just theirs. They do not want the business stopped in its tracks over a contract negotiation gone terribly awry. Bottom line: We CAN live to fight another day and whether you like it or not, I feel these folks are looking out for their fellow actors in a way our current leadership has been unable to.
While SAG and the AMPTP dithers there are no movies being shot or greenlit.
Just a reminder….
Interesting. The list includes the following “A-list” stars, directors, multimillionaires, etc:
Dave Annable
René Auberjonois
Diane Baker
Bob Balaban
Barbara Beck
Maria Bello
Barbara Bosson
Lizzy Caplan
Jennifer Carpenter
Mark Cassen
Erika Christensen
Scott Cohen
Jack Coleman
James Darren
Bruce Davison
James Denton
Brian Dennehy
Garret Dillahunt
Larry Dorf
Bill Fagerbakke
Kate Flannery
Christopher Gorham
Jennifer Grey
Annabelle Gurwitch
Michael C. Hall
Tess Harper
Mariette Hartley
Ed Helms
Kathryn Joosten
Mimi Kennedy
Sarah Knowlton
John Krasinski
Diane Lane
Melanie Mayron
Andrew McCarthy
Mary McCormack
Chris McDonald
Neal McDonough
Rob McElhenney
James Naughton
Gail O’Grady
Kaitlin Olson
Sam Page
Adrian Pasdar
Steve Pasquale
John Saxon
William Schallert (former SAG President)
Adam Scott
Armin Shimerman
Jerry Sroka
Marcia Strassman
Brenda Strong
Kitty Swink
David Tadman
Ally Walker
Tracey Walter
Belinda Waymouth
Lee Wilkoff
Brian Wimmer
Kevin Zegers
Louis Zoric
I don’t mean to insult these 61 people–and some are probably quite well off– but “A-List Actors who don’t need ANY residuals to pay their rent,” “rich way-above-scale actors are comfortable with the 6-figure and some 7 and 8 figure deals their agents negotiate for them,” “mostly millionaires who don’t have to worry about what’s in the contract… they write their own deals?” I don’t think so.
Face it–this list includes “A-list” AND non A-list.
If a strike is a good idea–defend it on those grounds (as some have done). But don’t claim that ONLY A-List Actors who don’t need ANY residuals to pay their rent feel that way. BOTH sides have stars and working class actors.
Wow.
Bye, bye SAG.
With A-listers coming out publicly against their own union (notice how they didn’t publicly come out against the AMPTT hard ball tactics. Nobody bites the hand the feeds them) SAG is self destructing.
Bye the way, do all you folks know SAG only covers what’s shot on film. All the new productions shoot on RED/HD or digital system doesn’t have to be SAG.
If it was a battle of who has the most impressive list of supporters, the “No strike authorization” supporters would win.
But it’s not about that. It’s about who has the least to lose from a strike.
Most SAG members risk nothing by voting for a strike authorization. They lose nothing during a strike. They will pour customers coffee from the same pots on the first day of the strike as they did the day before it.
The strike authorization vote will really just be a poll of who is not currently working, and it will probably pass accordingly.
But let there be no delusions among the strike whores about support outside of SAG. There is little to be found among the gainfully employed.
So SAG will have its strike, and that is all it will have. The announcement of prominent members being against a strike guarantees its failure before it even gets started.
Remember this – http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/what-aaron-sorkin-did-during-wga-strike/ ?
Don’t think similar wheels aren’t already turning in your guild, SAG members.
“The A listers will always be fine no matter the deal with the studios. But, residuals help the rest of the working actors put their kids through college and food ont he table.” rosettaresearch
If I got paid the residuals you get paid and could go get other work while I was collecting those checks – I MIGHT be able to put my kids through college too- let alone buy food, or shoes …. blah blah blah.
Thank God for those on that list! They maybe A-Listers now, but most of them paid their dues and came up through the financial and power ranks- it’s just that some have ’star power’ and some don’t-
To the actors who are crying about the names on the list……these name actors can and do negotiate salary above scale…because they can…they have something to offer…and they put butts in seats….or sell more soap. When you other “actors” can sell like these “A” listers then you too can negotiate a contract above scale. Until then, take what you are being offered (like the other unions) and work your asses off until you can sell more soap or put more butts in seats….only then can you expect to earn more than scale!!!!! The rest of us are working stiffs too….we can only negotiate a better deal if we offer more…start offering more before you ask for more!!!!
Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Kevin Spacey, Alan Alda, Danny Devito, Sally Field, Helen Hunt, Billy Cristal, Diane Keaton, Kelsey Grammer, Christopher Guest, Glenn Close, Minnie Driver, Morgan Freedman, Josh Brolin, John Goodman, Debra Messing, Rob Lowe, Jason Alexander, Ted Danson, Marlee Matlin, Donald Sutherland, Edward Norton, Matt Damon, Cameron Diaz — What do they all have in common? . . . they are all PRODUCERS and some of them with huge Studio Deals.
As far as Mike Farrell, Melissa Gilbert, James Cromwell, Tess Harper go, just soup grapes and don’t like Alan Rosenberg and would love to see him fail — even at the expense of their own Union.
And as far as the rest, Friends of Friends and a list was put together in a phone call. The majority of which I guarantee have no idea what we are fighting for — where were all these Stars 6 months ago when we could have used them? Interesting . . .
LMAO you all wanted big name stars against the strike a few days ago. Now your all saying eh, they don’t matter. Why because they actually have brains not to strike during this bad economy!
If they signed the For petition you all would be cheering them on and saying YES, thanks for standing by us. But the fact they didn’t, your all saying eh, they don’t matter lets strike anyhow because I have money saved up and I don’t care! Pot Meet Kettle!
The it’s your for us or against us attitude, needs to quit. Alan doesn’t care about the middle class actor he cares about saving his own ego…
My father was a union organizer and he once told me, “It’s not the people sitting across from you during a negotiation that you have to worry about so much as the people standing behind you that you’re in their fighting for. Some of them will try to knock your legs out from under you while in the process of cutting their own throats.” I’ve always taken that to be a truism that is self-evident.
Why any reasonable person would think their hand will be stronger three years down the road is baffling.
Someone here said that those voting “no” on the strike authorization were thinking of others over themselves. I disagree. These bad economic times should rally the labor movement and every fight stands to benefit more than just those shouldering the immediate burden. It helps all other unions and workers (both union and non-).
While I may enjoy the work the of those that signed their names to this “no strike” letter I cannot help but to have lost some measure of respect for them as human beings. This “no” vote for a strike authorization is short-sighted and selfish in the extreme.
Putting off for tomorrow what should be tackled head-on today is not a sound strategy nor an intelligent tactic but rather an advocacy of appeasement which, in the end, will only serve to hurt their future efforts in collective bargaining.
If SAG rolls over and plays dead now don’t be surprised when the vultures in the AMPTP start picking away at what’s left of the union’s carcass over the next three years.
Finally.
also – Hey Agent Provocateur, I see that several of the stars that your clients are stand-ins for are against the strike. Does that change your mind at all?
Now that is a list! Wow.
Let’s examine the fact that many of the people on this list have:
1) either nothing to lose by accepting this shit contract, or
2) something definite to gain in terms of money or personal vendetta.
Alan Alda – the AMPTP says that all product before 1974 needs to be residual free. If MASH had been made in the ’60’s, Alda might be singing a different tune.
James Cromwell – caught a lucky break working with a pig and now,
he’s a “STAR”. If things were different and he was still relying on his residuals from MAMA’S FAMILY, he might not be so sure.
And he hates Membership First.
Matt Damon, Edward Norton, Helen Hunt, Kevin Spacey, Josh Brolin,
Diane Lane, George Clooney, and on and on:
HUGE STARS – PROJECTS LINED UP FOR YEARS – SET FOR LIFE !!!
( not taking anything away from how wonderful they all are,
but, c’mon )
Tess Harper – Vocal anti- Membership First -pro merger person.
Tom Hanks – this one kind of breaks my heart.
Tom became a producer
and morphed from George Bailey into Mr. Potter.
Steve Carrell, John Krasinski, Eva Longoria Parker, Brenda Strong,
and on and on: ALL MAKING BIG MONEY ON SAG TV SHOWS.
DON’T WANT TO SLOW DOWN THAT GRAVY TRAIN, DO WE?
Mike Farrell – the most lefty liberal of all liberals, EXCEPT when it comes to union politics. Then he adopts something of a
Mayor Dailey “my way or the highway ” kind of stance.
Rabid Membership First hater.
Kathryn Joosten – talented woman who has found success late in
life and now doesn’t want anybody to spoil her party.
These people, for the most part, will never have to rely on residuals.
They are like limosine liberals, telling us mooks in the working class to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps.
Stiff upper lip and all that. They have no dog in this fight.
Their advice is hollow.
Dear actors who signed this list,
This is completely untrue…
“We support our union and we support the issues we’re fighting for, but we do not believe in all good conscience that now is the time to be putting people out of work.”
So, you don’t support the union. You support other people who are not in the union. Fair enough, just have the courage to speak the truth.
This is all moot. The board authorized a strike authorization vote. That is what will happen unless a majority of the board changes their mind and a vote can be held before the materials go out. I can’t see that happening.
Frankly, I can see both sides. SAG has more clout at this juncture than any other union did before. The moguls are HURTING and a strike would be a tremendous blow. They were fully prepared for the WGA strike and even at that the negative effects on network viewership was significantly more far reaching than they ever thought it would be. Who would have thought that once the public tuned them out that they wouldn’t come back… a lesson learned by the AMPTP and one that could be turned to SAG’s advantage. Also there are deep and significant cuts across most major studios. Can they really afford to lose product when their bottom line is already in such poor shape? I think not.
On the other side, we have radicals in the negotiation room. I mean David Jolliffe is about as far out there as we can get. He was the mastermind of the commercials strike, the agents agreement, the fighting with AFTRA and dozens of other things that severly hurt SAG and it’s members for the past 10 years. I didn’t trust them before and frankly I don’t trust them now.
IF we had a REAL negotiating team in there, the time would be perfect to make a stand. However, the margin on the national board who would need to authorize this is razor slim against the Membership First militant faction that has continuously put SAG in a precarious position for little or no gain. If there was a board vote to authorize a strike, it’s easy to see that Membership First would hold significant sway and only need to convice a few other board members.
I guess I’m deciding as I write this that I won’t vote for the strike authorization. I’m pretty certain that with this much diversiveness that there is not much chance of getting the 75% need to authorize.
Let the vote happen. Then we will finally KNOW. From there, I don’t know where to go. Personally I think I would reconstitute the negotiating commitee (possible only if enough of them resign) and try a different tact. There are some very important issues on the table that could be effectively addressed that way.
Remember, a vote against the strike authorization is NOT a vote to take the contract. There are other options.
I guess I’m not on the fence anymore. Interesting!
A list of rich cowards who have NOTHING TO DO with this contract. DO NOT SIGN THIS DEAL! IT WILL NEVER BE UNDONE! Open you eyes, people!
Where are the middle class actors on this list?
So instead of fighting for what is right, let’s just turn tail and run. Twenty years from now the middle class actors will be asking why they are still getting screwed on New Media just like they are asking today why they are still getting screwed on DVDs.
What a bunch of wimps.
Most of the strike authorization detractors (stars or not) seem to stand on three things:
1) that the deal is shit and the AMPTP is shit, but…
2) SAG can renegoatiate with AMPTP for the next contract when the economy will be ‘better’, because…
3) the economy is too crappy right now to strike.
Are you guys sure about #2 up there?
Okay, then. Should the strike authorization fail (or not go out at all) this time around, and should SAG be forced to accept this shit deal… then I want to see each one of those SAG actors on that list be the first ones to authorize a strike in 2.5 years when the AMPTP refuses to negotiate with us – no matter how ‘unified’ we are. Are they willing to (or say publicly they’ll) do that? Because that’s what their letter is saying.
The AMPTP has brilliantly played SAG against the industry, against the economy and against itself – and a large body of SAG members have now (apparently) bought into it. Between the internal SAG board antipathy, and apathy from “celebrity” actors, the AMPTP has gotten its way. And the NY board and those “Vote No” actors will probably get their way as well because heightening the internal SAG divisiveness will help get “no” votes to support their point of view. The less unified we seem to be, the less ‘Yes’ votes the authorization will get.
I’m still voting ‘Yes’ on the authorization if/when it comes my way. The Bullies may win this time, but I won’t go down without a fight. I hate it when the bully wins. Let’s hope that the non-millionaire SAG members feel the same.
Our so-called SAG “leaders” have been hell-bent on a strike, regardless.
But working members get no media glory from the juvenile thrill of a strike drama.
So, AR and his folks aren’t gonna be our leaders much longer.
Good riddance is my vote.
Do not think that most of the folks on this list give a damn about SAG or SAG members..They do not see themselves as workers among workers. For the most part,they are corporations among corporations.Let us take the vote and find out if our profession has a future. If it is NO then so be it. We must accept that all of us, in all the unions,will never hope to make a decent living again and that the corporations will have won.America was once a great nation as SAG was once a great union, but then again, there once were real men and real women too.
Sure…… all established actors who will not be impacted by the “supposed” strike (or is it a negotiating tool?) when was the last time any of you struggled to make your health insurance? When was the last time any of you had a usual guest star spot whittled down to co-star pay at scale? When was the last time you were told you day rate will be met? When was the last time you were told the production does not break top of show? When was the last time your work was shown on the internet in some bullshit “internet film” for a major advertiser only to be called a short film but really be advertising, then not get paid residiuals on the work?
Do you have dental, vision, and a nice warm place to live with your car payment and home note paid? I am sure most of the above listed actors DO have that in place without an issue.
But.. actors who audition regularly, struggle day-to-day to book the job and make the most they can, including the hope of residuals when their name and likeness is being shown NEED a better contract.
I believe this is a leveraging tool — the only one left. And, whatever the reasons are we go to this point, we are at this point. Rank and file actors cannot wait another 3 years for their money.
I can go on and on, but you get the point? Put yourself in our shoes.
I can go on and on, but you get the point?
Finding a job, any job, to pay the rent while striking (and recuperating from the strike) is gonna be a bitch. Yeah, those people make and have big bucks. They stand to lose some money should you strike, but they’ll still eat at the best restaurants and have great vacations. The rest of you will spend the next 5 years playing catch up.
You can’t blame them for taking the money. I would.
“Three years from now all the union contracts will be up again.” They were already all up together this past round… what happened then, huh????? People are jealous of actors.
Why is no one dwelling on the fact that thousands upon thousands of actors WHO ARE NOT MAKING A LIVING IN SAG – and who never did – are going to try and shut this town down? That is fact. It’s just not right. Only folks who eke out a living in the guild should be allowed to vote. Not the ones, like Rosenberg, who never landed in the profession. And here’s something else – look who’s on that list saying “no” to the strike vote. Look at those names. There’s a lot of Talmudic reason on that list, you ask me. I agree with Baldwin: Rosenberg needs to go away. Soon. End the madness. None of us can afford for things to get worse.
Let’s see now… What have our “friends” in the other Unions done lately? Oh yeah, the DGA cut the legs out from under the WGA, AFTRA cut the legs out from under SAG and IATSE cut the legs out from under… SAG. Sounds like everyone is out for themselves to me. SAG is doing exactly what it should be doing. Behaving like a Union by fighting to protect the future of its Members. When is it a good time to strike? In a better economy? WTF! We should give the studios more time to be creative in busting the Union? More time to figure out different ways to say “NO”? Wait till most actors are employed? What freakin’ dream world do you live in, Clooney? Oh, that’s right, the producing world.
Will these stars suffer the loss in New Media? NO
Will these stars cover my P&H in the future when
my residuals don’t? NO
Will these stars give up million $$$ paychecks? NO
WONDER if these stars have children or nephews & nieces
that are in the industry and who will suffer because they are voting “NO!” now.
That’s right, a ‘VOTE NO’ now is such the better choice!
Who the hell is Alec Baldwin or the others kidding kidding?
None of these stars give a shit about the working class actor that busts our asses to get one or two days as a co-star or guest star on set.
I’d LOVE to suggest these ridiculously inflated egos above take less for their salaries and make it easier for other actors to make something decent on a production, but they’re all told this IS their worth! They are the studio’s cash cows and the Studios are the ones who agree to the million dollar pay outs leaving nothing for the middle class!
The economy is our fear? No, our greatest fear is the fact WE ARE BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE A CELEBRITY IS AGAINST THIS REFERENDUM- SO SHOULD WE BE!
NONE OF THESE PEOPLE LISTED WILL EVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE OUTCOME OF THIS CONTRACT- AND IF THEY DO, THEY ARE ALREADY VESTED UNDER THE GOOD CONTRACTS THEY’VE BEEN PROTECTED UNDER FOR THE LAST 30 plus YEARS!
CLEARLY, NONE of them remember what it was to bust their ass in the beginning- why would they?! HALF these stars were grandfathered into the industry and their own celebrity by their parent’s fame and BY GOD DON’T ANYONE DARE F***WITH IT!
Vote YES and give the leadership the leverage- not for a strike people- for leverage!
We need it to have a foothold on NEW MEDIA NOW.
WE NEED IT TO CARRY US INTO OUR NEXT NEGOTIATIONS
in COMMERCIALS.
Oh yeah, btw- ANYONE that is a commercial actor can kiss protections in NEW MEDIA AND BROADCAST “bye bye!” right now as well.
If we don’t have membership behind this vote NOW it will affect us sooner than later. Who will get blamed then? Probably THAT team of negotiators.
“Let’s take the high road. Let’s unite with our brothers and sisters in the entertainment community and prepare for the future, three years down the line. Then, together, let’s make a great deal.”
Now THIS is comedy that Melissa Gilbert signed to THIS. SHE and the rest of “Restore Respect” (Mazur and company) was pulling her puppet strings back in the day and Gilbert was the reason we wound up having the date changed so we weren’t in line with the WGA anymore!
VOTE “YES!” THE ONLY “HIGH ROAD” here.
History teaches us one thing only: we NEVER learn. 20 years ago, the producers f**ked over the guilds on home video – promising to revisit the formula “the next time”. Several billion dollars later… the producers are now laying the groundwork for a new media deal that will benefit them for the next few decades at the expense of the guilds. And three (and twenty) years from now when the producers are reporting blockbuster-sized revenue streams from new media to Wall Street from one side of their mouths while telling the guilds that they’re not yet ready to bump scale payments or residuals… I trust that the illustrious group listed above will sit quietly in the corner and figure out how best to apologize to the day players they hosed.
Comment by Jay — December 15, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
Agreed.
This list is a mix of those that have lost any sense of self-respect and/or those that are suddenly and puzzlingly unwilling to take a stand now after (seemingly) doing so during the WGA action.
Like Jason Alexander, for example. Is this merely an example of strike fatigue, or are they being glad-handed into supporting such pronouncements?
Were a strike not to be undertaken then 3 years from now, when the illusory gremlin of a faltering economy is still being perpetrated by the puppeteers of panic upon the public, the situation would remain the same; the only difference would be that SAG had followed suit with the other unions and unnecessarily sacrificed the collective Queen for the lot of them to the AMPTP when it is vital that they push back and push back hard.
It’s time to show some spinal fortitude, or would you tell those that have shouldered the burden of building your unions in the past that you care not to share such a burden in the present?
As for you, AMPTP: It’s high time you dip into the collective years of DVD residuals and pay the piper. Agree to the labor demands and be done with it. You are merely biting the hands that feed you. Don’t forget that, much like music distribution, you are becoming rather obsolete. Don’t force us to replace you. Don’t think it can’t happen. Your grip on the industry is paper thin, and is maintained at the pleasure of your partners and your employees.
Don’t ever fucking forget that.
Oy – Actors are like cattle, you get a few BIG Names on a list and the rest will follow. Especially the ones that haven’t worked in a while and get to have their name added to a list with the likes of a Clooney or Hanks. I guarantee you will never see the majority of these Actors at a SAG town hall meeting — or that they even know what the issues are we are fighting for — pathetic!!!
Movie Star guilt — as they step out of their uber Star trailers and pass the Craft service lady (without even a nod) whose heading home to hers.
It is working — the Big 8 are winning… they’ve already divided us — now to conquer!
Silly peoople – VOTE YES ON THE STRIKE AUTHORIZATION!
This is the only leverage we have now! Billions could potentially be lost – and that is the only language big business understands.
And, as far as striking during “these economic times”, ahem, if you look closely … it’s, again, big business that’s gotten us into this crappy economy!
Big business will always make its money exploiting the maasses — when do we stand up???? It’s now or never!
Wake up people! The middle class will be making third-world salaries in the very near future!
Why are Alan Rosenberg and all of his supporters so divisive?
How is it that anyone who disagrees with them is automatically set up as a traitor or attacked for another reason?
Isn’t it possible, just possible, that Alan Rosenberg grossly miscalculated here? Isn’t it possible that his inability to listen to anyone who disagrees with him has finally caught up to him?
Ultimately, aren’t all these divisions the reason we’re in the mess we’re in now? That’s why we failed, isn’t it? Alan, and his supporters, need to stop being school yard bullies here (or cry babies) and understand that their divisive and unnecessary attacks are the reason for this mess in the first place. No one is going to follow you guys into the abyss because your pride is hurt. No one. It was stupid to think anyone would.
Those within SAG who actually understand what strategy means need to start preparing for the next round of negotiations.
We need to UNITE with our sister actors union, we need to UNITE with DGA, we need to UNITE with WGA and everyone else. We need to begin by forming a joint study group which will examine all current new media platforms and actually understand what has caused all this division and then report back to us its findings.
Then we need to form a joint negotiating team that will be even more powerful than the producers when we will finally sit across a table from each other and negotiate our next contract.
This nonsense here has to stop RIGHT NOW.
To “Are We There Yet?”
That comment about how “some” of those high $$$ actors bring “keep in mind that many of these successful actors bring in a huge amount of money to the pension and health plans – money that subsidizes the benefits of actors who don’t make as much. Many of these people have full pensions so whatever P&H contributions come in under their name do not go to them anymore but to the rest of the acting community.”
About that: I would say MANY of those actors WAIVE their actor fees and take and “Executive Producer” credit ($$$). Know what happens there? That actor fee gets cash flowed BACK INTO THE BUDGET and SAG has a fit because THEY JUST LOST ALMOST 20% in PHW! Trust me, I’ve seen this happen more than I care to. Yes these are multimillion dollar actors/producers/showrunners, and it seems that they DON’T CARE about the middle class actor who has to take care of family and pay kids tuition for college.
We ain’t hardly there yet and about to runn off the road and down that cliff. No wait, that’s not a cliff, that the Grand Canyon of grief & despair.
VOTE YES ON THE AUTHORIZATION!
Why does the “Yes” side have to villify those who disagree with them?
Simple…
Because they’ve already lost.
Sun Tsu: Every battle is won or lost before it’s ever fought.
It seems astounding that no one here seems to grasp that at one point, almost every actor on that list was struggling themself.
Everyone seems to be under the impression that George Clooney crawled from the womb into a directors chair. People obnoxiously point to their money and say that wealth is no reason to lend someone an ear, but what about hard work, experience, and success?
But that’s par for the course of what’s been going on lately (and a cynic might say, Par for what Hollywood’s all about). Ignore the idea of working hard, because you want your wealth now. No one seems to care about wages, just residuals. Rather, no one wants to get paid to work, instead sit and get paid for work already performed.
Let productions run away from LA. We’re a bunch of sissies that don’t deserve a fighting chance. And if somebody makes it big? Fuck ‘em. They don’t deserve it. The game is rigged. I should be rich. Right?
“Everyone seems to be under the impression that George Clooney crawled from the womb into a directors chair.” -Rabble, Rabble
You picked a bad example. It has been well publicized over the years that Clooney moved in the guest house of his world famous entertainment figure and Aunt’s home in Bel Air and was immediately signed to a retainer deal with a network. He was paid $100,000 a year to be kept on hold and put in various pilots to see if anything hit.
I don’t begrudge him for that. And he could not be a nicer guy.
But his experience in Hollywood and his current status as a millionaire actor/producer don’t make him an expert on what the rank and file in SAG need.
I will also go out on a limb and say he hasn’t taken time to learn to facts about the final offer. I say this confidently because no decent human being would support the AMPTP in this contract.
The experts are the rank and file. And when the vote is tallied they will have spoken. Collective bargaining and a vote for EVERY man and woman are what created this UNION and every UNION.
“Everyone seems to be under the impression that George Clooney crawled from the womb into a directors chair. People obnoxiously point to their money and say that wealth is no reason to lend someone an ear, but what about hard work, experience, and success?”
Entirely right. The first chair he crawled up & into from the womb was the actor’s chair, not the director’s chair. Thanks for that clarification. Rosemary Clooney, his aunt, ever hear of her?
“Voting No and proud”- read again, you’ll notice the only one being vilifyed is Rosenberg for fighting for the future.
Y’all want the easy way out. “Vote no and wait for tomorrow.” (?!?) Congratulations for being brainwashed, buying into the BS like the ’stars’ have, & helping to bust your own union.
Sun Tzu : If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.
The current SAG leadership only know how to divide. They don’t know how to unite.
to reality check
the DGA is never going to join forces with any other union.
they don’t need to. they don’t want to.
they take care of themselves. period.
do you think that the WGA will want to strike again in 3 years?
maybe, if the AMPTP keeps cheating them and refusing to pay
the New Media residuals they both agreed to 6 months ago.
but will the economy be better in 3 years?
was 1932 better than 1929?
no. it wasn’t.
some merger happy people say we can fast track the process and join
together in a matter of months.
this is day-dreaming or idiocy.
the joining together of two vastly different organizations with distinct
cultures and operating structures will take a great deal of time and effort. it’s monumental.
and if we do happen to merge? what then?
we will still be where we are right now.
the “new” union will still be made up of … US.
a group of people bitterly divided on how to conduct our business.
one half of us believe that the only way to deal with intractable
moguls is with the threat of a strike …
and the other half will avoid any such job action NO MATTER WHAT.
some people in the regions and even in new york have hard scrabble
existences and fear any work stoppage.
but risking a hard scrabble existence is part of the deal when one
chooses to be an actor.
there are no guarantees.
one thing that is certain: if you don’t stand up for yourself,
no one else will.
to anyone whom might be on the fence … VOTE YES.
stand up for yourself.
This is in response to blivit’s statement targetted at me…
Nothing can ever be done if you refuse to even try. How do you know what the DGA will or won’t do? You assume way too much and that’s your problem. Perhaps you shouldn’t wait until the very last moment to plot out your negotiations like you did this last time.
All I know is that:
1) SAG has no leverage in these negotiations.
2) SAG won’t get the 75% required to authorize a strike, and thus will have even less leverage than they do now. You don’t have the support you think you do, not even a fraction of it. Even if you did get the 75%, which you won’t, the union is so badly divided that the producers would let us strike just to break us. You’re going to impoverish many people unnecessarily and ultimately come away with what they’re offering us now. We’re damned either way here buddy, but you’re too blind to even see this. You keep thinking that the producers are going to cave at the potential of a strike — another assumption based on fantasy — and have no plan for when a strike takes place. This lack of a Plan B has been your problem from DAY ONE. They will break us mate and then what precisious residuals will you, or anyone else, earn?
3) All you’re doing here is creating more divisions within our union and with other unions. Unnecessary. Stupid. Counter-productive.
4) You refuse to acknowledge that we can always renegotiate these terms in three years, when we eventually employ a better strategy from the outset — and not do this last-minute desperate bullshit five and a half months AFTER our contract expired.
The divisiveness you employ has been destructive, counter-productive and you won’t even acknowledge that it was a mistake.
First, we couldn’t join forces with the directors or writers because we’re actors, and thus, our interests are different, they’re not going to talk to us anyway — never mind that we never bothered to try to open any communications with them in the first place; then we couldn’t trust AFTRA because they’re just a bunch of “weathermen” and “sportscasters,” not “real” actors; then it was SAG NY, because they’re not from LA, they’re not us — besides they’re practically AFTRA anyway; now it’s the A-list actors, because they’re not “middle-class” like us, they don’t know what we’re going through.
Do you notice a pattern here? Do you understand why SAG is in the precarious spot it is in?
When will this nonsense stop? What you’re doing is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. You people are so caught up in your own rhetoric, and flights of fancy, that you can’t see what’s right in front of your own face. You have no strategy and keep digging us deeper into a hole and then you blame all your mistakes on other people.
You can make all the demands you want, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to get it. You need a strategy to get anything out of a negotiation. Our leverage is gone now whether we strike or not, that’s another thing you won’t acknowledge. AFTRA has already signed a deal. What would prevent the producers from just hiring them? Then what? We’d have little industry support, virtually no public support! What’s our plan B?
Have you people even thought this thing through? You talk AT PEOPLE. You don’t listen to anyone. Anyone who disagrees is automatically “The Enemy” to you. Thus, isn’t the statement that you’re putting us all through this because of your wounded ego not entirely valid and truthful?
Just another case of STAR guilt — as they go home to their gated communities. They have such Guilt for their success, that they would never want to be a part of something (Strike) that might further hurt the community. And it’s very admirable — but what they don’t realize is that they’re hurting their fellow Actors in the process. The ones that need a scale internet template to survive. The ones that can’t wait three years and try at it again. The ones that never got the VHS/DVD raise. The ones that need this Union to stand up for them, so they don’t get walked on — and get paid a decent wage.
Do these Stars even realize because of their large salaries, that us Actors that do have QUOTES don’t get them anymore — we are offered scale and told that we should feel honored to be a part of their project.
I think they should take a real hard look at what they are doing to their fellow Actor before agreeing to put their name on a list. A list that is so hurtful on so many levels. There are other ways to us your power that would be far more constructive — like calling these AMPTP folk that you Wine and Dine with and let them know your concerns with the current contract, — if you truly feel it’s a bad deal. And if you truly have heart for your fellow Actor — who has a harder time getting a job than any crew person. And when we get a job they don’t even honor our quotes.
So to all you BIG STARS — I say get involved and make some phone calls to some of these people in power and let them know that you are standing up for your fellow Actors/Human beings.
If you BIG STARS would have gotten involved months ago when Mr. Rosenberg could have really used you, we would probably not be in this mess — we are a powerful Union. And a Union that could have made inroads, that would have helped our Sister Unions in not having to take such a shitty deal. But to come out now, after all the hard work that Alan has done, just doesn’t make sense to me — this is a good man, who’s fighting the good fight and for what? This poor man is getting his ASS kicked all over the place and I ask again for what? He’s not getting paid, and he will probably not work for a long time after all of this. Sad. So instead of bad mouthing him and your Union — I ask you to PLEASE get involved in a way that’s constructive and that will not further divide this Union.
That would be the Admirable thing to do . . .
Peace. And to a prosperous New Year!
To exeproducer: You make a good point and I know that happens as well. Yet I also know that many folks make it their business to do their part. They would probably do even more by way of participating if they felt our union had its act together. I know quite a few people on that list personally and I will not lose faith in them for sticking their necks out to oppose this strike authorization. The notion that they might be acting ONLY in their own best interest is not something I personally believe.
Why does the “Yes” side have to villify those who disagree with them?
Simple…
Because they’ve already lost.
Sun Tsu: Every battle is won or lost before it’s ever fought.
Comment by Voting No and proud — December 16, 2008 @ 4:51 am
Or it could be because those that are resisting them are wrong. Reminds me of an episode of South Park:
“There can only be ONE answer to the Great Question.”
The choice is pretty clear:
Let the WGA action late last year/early this year be for naught, and let the AMPTP walk all over its supposed “partners” during two consecutive Christmases by voting NO…
OR
…show ‘em who’s boss. In for a penny in for a pound?
(with a feigned Clint Eastwood)
You just have to ask yourself one question:
Are you a pitcher or a catcher?
Well, are ya? Are ya, punk?
to reality check.
the divisiveness i employ?
look at the NY debacle the other night and the venom spewed there
for a shining example of divisiveness.
look to 28 years of joint negotiations with a sister union who always
took the cheap way out for an example of divisiveness.
look to former union leaders bent on revenge for divisiveness.
look to richard masur agreeing to a strike authorization if mediation failed (and he knew it would) and now leading the charge to just vote no for divisiveness and duplicity.
if the DGA ever jointly negotiates with anyone i will eat my hat.
i assume too much? that’s my problem? maybe i’ve just paid attention
to the histories and behaviors of these guilds.
there IS leverage if the membership has the stones to put the bullets in the gun and authorize a strike.
NOW here’s the really funny part: even if we get the 75%
THE NATIONAL BOARD CAN STILL CHOOSE TO NOT IMPLEMENT THE STRIKE. IT’S NOT UP TO ROSENBERG. IT’S UP TO MASUR AND
NEW YORK.
so if they have the final say, why are they doing everything they can
to stop the vote from even happening? BECAUSE THEY”RE AFRAID
IT MIGHT PASS. and that would spoil their plans of weakening Hollywood SAG to the point where we have to merge whether we like it or not.
if Masur or any of the new york crowd had been in charge of the negotiations they would’ve taken the deal on june 30th and said it was
a roaring success. or maybe if someone questioned them about
the rollbacks of force majeure and clip consent, the huge non union
space in new media and the beginning of the end of residuals, they might’ve said, “Yeah, gee guys, we did the best we could. But don’t
worry, we’ll get ‘em in three years. Now’s not the right time.”
that’s what these people always say: NOW’S NOT THE TIME WE”LL GET THEM IN THREE YEARS.
are you beginning to see a pattern here?
at least rosenberg and allen had the guts to call the offer what it is.
i’m a member of both SAG and AFTRA.
what’s your deal in all of this?
are you even an actor?
you are guilty of everything you charge rosenberg with.
you blame him and doug and MF for everything we’re dealing with now.
bullshit. we are now in the perfect storm of union/showbusiness crap
that was started back when Melissa Gilbert and Pisano extended our deal and put us out of synch with the WGA.
own up to the fact that AFTRA sold us cheap.
own up to the fact that NY and the RBD would rather slit their own
throats than stand up and fight for themselves.
they fight for the right not to fight.
you want to stop the rancor?
i’ll shut up when you do, pal.
I just don’t “get” the vitriol on either side. I’m still voting yes, but I appreciate hearing all the reasons on both sides.
So far the only BAD reason I’ve heard is that series regulars might vote “no” and force a bad contract on everyoner else just so THEY can stay working today, and even that’s understandable.
Otherwise, most of the arguments are pretty sensible, on both sides, but the bottom line for me is,
1.) I believe if we sign the AFTRA contract, we’ll never have living-wage residuals again, and
2.) the force majeure payments owed us should not be forgiven.
blivit,
So you admit that this is a personal thing for you, is that right? You admit that this is about getting back at past presidents (or other members) for getting deals that you didn’t agree with?
This is just a continuation of the MF vs. UFS wars, another battle in a long line of battles? You’re putting us all through this because you can and no one can stop you? Is that it?
Have you ever considered what might happen if we all go on strike and the producers DON’T cave? What then? Do you have any strategy at all? Anything? What happens when HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people are thrown out of work and the public turns against us and emboldens the producers? What then?
What is your exit strategy here, buddy? Because the way I see it, you have left us with two possibilities:
1) Total victory;
2) Total retreat and humiliation.
Did I mention that our negotiating team has left us without any leverage in these negotiations? Thus, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to believe that we’re more likely to end this thing retreating and humiliated that we are as victors.
You may personally have very little to lose, but that doesn’t mean that others don’t have a lot to lose. I hope that you’d keep that in mind.
I also can’t help but notice how you didn’t address a single one of the four points I brought up in that earlier post. Instead you just rehashed more personal attacks against people who you have some history with and have nothing to do with this now and other red herrings designed to confuse and obfuscate.
Honestly, you’re like that general still fighting the last war, buddy. It’s over. Deal with it. You have bigger problems to deal with now.
Who gives a crap about Melissa Gilbert, et al.? This is about SAG now isn’t it? This is about whether we can even win this war your making us fight, isn’t it?
This isn’t about your stupid pride, is it?
I am friends with 9 people who signed this letter. I have been to their homes, they have been to mine. Kids have had birthday parties and playdates. We can actually discuss something other than the last movie, TV show or job.
But now I realize the one thing we have never discussed is their struggle to get to the point of being a recognizable face/name. Why? Because everyone on this list takes it for granted. They all believe they were destined for the position they have now, and no union or contract would have helped or hurt them.
The people who advocate this action are the people who won’t be effected by the lack of residuals. They make a minimum of $150,000 for two weeks’ work on a movie or $35,000 an episode on their TV show.
They are dong just fine, and that is why they signed this letter. They don’t care about the rank-and-file actors, they don’t care that a residual check for $800 is the difference between moving back to Lubbock or working on the dream and and keeping the shared apartment for another month.
They are advocating capitulation because it is the easiest way to maintain their own momentum, not because they care about other people gaining theirs.
My friends are wrong. These actors are wrong. Under a new contract or old, the people on this list are the least effected by the decisions the Guild makes.
Is that really who should be telling the “little guys” how to act?