'Where The Wild Things Are' Runs $32.4M 
Oscar Can't Always Get What He Wants 
NBC Bright Spot Of Lousy GE 3Q Earnings; 4Q … 
Oops! Vivendi May Delay 20% NBCU Sale? 
65 Nations Vie For Foreign Language Oscar 
Elle's Women In Hollywood Power List 
HOW BIG IS BIG? AEG Predicts Michael Jackson … 
Sane Debt-Reduction Move By Redstone; But … 
EXCLUSIVE: Comcast Wants NBCU Deal Done … 
3RD UPDATE THURSDAY: WGAW Pressured IMDB On Writers Credits
2ND UPDATE 5:30PM: Writers credits are back atop IMDB. Cool.
UPDATE 3PM: This change is on IMDB, not IMDB Pro. Here is what IMDB says:
Notice something different? IMDb is continually trying out new ways to provide and display content that will improve your experience on our site. Over time, you may notice that we've added a new feature or changed around elements within a particular page or section. We will not be removing data from the site but we may occasionally alter where data is located. We are always interested in constructive feedback from you regarding these changes, especially if you've experienced a change in functionality on the site. Please send feedback to: http://www.imdb.com/helpdesk/contact_form
12PM: Bad enough that free IMDB (not pay IMDB Pro) has grown increasingly unreliable as a source of accurate and up-to-date showbiz info. But I'm suddenly flooded with angry emails complaining about IMDB's latest moronic decision: 
moving writers down to "Additional Details" so that now only directors and the major cast are at the top of the movie's home page there. This took place a day ago and is an outrage! (And it's long been an outrage that below-the-line crew are relegated to a different page...) "Even if the director is also the writer, the credit has been drop-kicked to the bottom with the crew," one writer fumes. "Writers and composers are the only artists in the filmmaking process that begin with a blank page. We create the blueprint, the foundation upon which every director, actor and craftsperson builds. This must stop. Please, Nikki, mention this and help IMDB change this attempt to 'whitewash' the writer from their proper place in filmmaking credits." Or, as another writer emails, "Let slip the dogs of war on these assholes." IMDB bigwigs and their Amazon bosses read my website. NOTE: One very reliable source of info on IMDB is Lew Irwin's Studio Briefing, which is also now a blog...)
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IMDB jumped the shark last year when they bought Withoutabox. Now a film only has to be submitted (not accepted, just submitted) to a festival that is recognized by IMDB and it gets listed.
Net net, I can shoot 10 min of my navel, submit it to a fest and voila, Navel (2009) is on IMDB.
Ridiculous.
But canning writers from the top listing? Plain stupid.
That is some ripe B.S.
What is this “Writer’s to the below the line” ballyhoo??! Try making a movie with no script…
I hate that a vast majority of people (fans, industry types) take the imdb as “gospel,” when I’m continually having to fix entries filled with inaccuracies. At this rate, the wikipedia is more accurate than the imdb!
And it’s disgusting to put writers down “under the cut” on the page listed with “additional crew.” Without them, films would not exist!
I’m so glad someone else commented on this… I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. I guess the director is god in the IMDB world.
IMDB is the least of our problems in the WGA. The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences just announced their latest inductees into their ranks: EIGHT PUBLICISTS are now new members while only FOUR WRITERS were considered worthy. Everyone knows when you want to create a magical scene that will be remembered in the annals of film history, you call on a publicist.
As asinine a move as this clearly is, as someone who has been using imdb for well over a decade I can say that this will drastically alter the site’s usability for me. I go looking for writers slightly more than I go looking for any other categories combined. I’m fine with additional content and layout changes, as long as it’s actually something I have any interest in and it doesn’t make it harder for me to find the information I came looking for in the first place! To makes us hunt down the inventors of the movie is insulting to the intelligence of both the writers and the users.
If you can win a televised Oscar for your work, you should bloody well be above the digital fold.
That is absolutely ridiculous! It is bad enough that Hollywood has so little respect for the craft of writing and many writers get treated as second class citizens on the sets of their own creation but to list them with “other crew” is criminal.
I am increasingly disgusted with the level of service IMDB gives it’s membership (which I PAY for) and if it isn’t fixed this may just make me cancel my subscription!
GET IT TOGETHER IMDB!!!
Send letters to Christian Gaines, he used to run AFI FEST so you’d think he’d know better.
I guess not enough writers are joining IMDB and paying the monthly fee. It’s all about the fees. That’s why I have only five credits listed of the nearly thirty I’ve earned. IMDB is a joke!
They weren’t moved off the main page, they were moved to additional details further down with release date, etc.
The writers are still at least on the front page, what about the rest of the crew? Where’s the false outrage from the last decade when they weren’t on the front page?
yeah, i’ll be cancelling my imdbpro subscription if they don’t fix imdb and quick!!!!! terrible decision. someone should be fired for that idea.
This is such a bloody outrage and a huge slap in the face for many screenwriters who have worked hard to create original stories with interesting characters.
Way to go, IMDB!
I’ve email IMDB that I will not be renewing my subscription if this does not change. I urge other writers to do the same. Get their attention by getting them where it would hurt…Their pockets.
While I’m dumbfounded by this move, given the “writing” on, say, the latest summer blockbuster, it’s easy to see how IMDb may have thought this was okay. As one of thousands of uncredited writers, I’ve always been appalled that there wasn’t a catch-all “creative contributions by” credit for those who had a hand in the writing process. But as a screenwriter we’re supposed to be okay with the star’s masseuse and the 57 CGI minions getting more credit than us.
They also moved the comment section to the bottom of the page. THEY MUST BE ANTI-COMMENTS!
They also moved the plot synopsis to the bottom of the page! THEY MUST BE ANTI-PLOT SYNOPSIS!
They moved a bunch of information to lower on the page for all movies, NOT JUST THE WRITERS. Stop playing the victim on a non-existent problem. Sheesh.
Aren’t writers the ones who WRITE THE MOVIE. There can’t be a more NECESSARY, CRUCIAL element to the filmmaking process. This is RIDICULOUS!!
Thanks, Nikki. Never mind the rest of us. It’s just hard to see names like these (there are many others) –
Julius J. Epstein
Philip G. Epstein
Howard Koch
Frank Nugent
Charles Brackett
Frances Goodrich
Charles Lederer
Horton Foote
Waldo Salt
Paddy Chayefsky
Alvin Sargent
David Webb Peoples
– listed as “Additional Details” beneath the “MOVIEmeter” …
Somebody made a bad call. Somebody should quietly fix it.
IMDB and IMDBpro is run by monkeys.
Illiterate monkeys at that.
It is the most out of date and incorrect database in the industry. It is only acceptable for use by housewives in Topeka who want to look up their favorite soap stars credits which will invariably be incorrect.
I could pull a 6 year old copy of THE HOLLYWOOD CREATIVE DIRECTORY off my shelf and it will have more accurate information than IMDB or IMDBpro.
While that decision is total BS, according to my research – aka going to http://www.imdb.com – writers are still right up there on the top…
This is rich irony. Amazon was built on the backs of … WRITERS.
Writers are the MOST important (spare the whining comments from directors.) This whole “director’s medium” ownership is a canard. Regardless, dumping writers to na-na land is totally insane.
IMBD is unreliable overall and this latest stupid move opens the door for another site to fill the vacuum.
Why, IMDB, why? Many people in the industry are guilty of checking IMDB for someone’s writing credits. I know I work in the industry and our server occasionally chokes on IMDB from too many visitors. IMDB is geneally fast, mostly accurate, and can be a useful tool. I don’t see any possible advantage to making their site more inconvenient. Not to mention the terrible slight to writers everywhere.
This change only appears to be for IMDB, not IMDBpro. IMDB is a source of bar trivia and ‘Where are they now’ inquiries targeted to an audience 99% of which are not part of the industry. Where any credits are located to the average site visitor is totally arbitrary – why should IMDB not make their site easier to navigate (in their opinion) for the overwhelming majority of users? It’s their business – let them run it.
IMDBpro still has all the credits right up top so people who need that info can find it.
who can we file a complaint to? Christian Gaines? Agree that IMDB has jumped the shark. Stan the man is absolutely right. The whole submission process makes no sense at all ..including putting up erroneous information and then not taking it down. Do they use the variety factchecking department?
wow. you need to get a quote from them explaining why. like getting a job in today’s market isn’t tough enough already. not to take anything away from the other department heads or crew members, but writers need to have top billing on that site. ridiculous. nothing surprises me anymore.
That fits in with what Amazon recently did with book authors. A month ago they moved the author’s comments off of their own book’s page. And sent us an e-mail telling us how great this was.
[Amazon Author Central is] “a free service provided by Amazon to allow authors to reach more readers, promote books, and help build a better Amazon bookstore.”
Yes, just not reach any readers who come to your own book’s page. The reader now has to go through extra steps to specifically seek you out.
F U too, Amazon!
What a ludicrous change! Do they think its the angles of the shots that make the story compelling and bring the characters to life? What possible train of thought led these morons into thinking so little of the writer?
STEVE: “I tell you what Jim. I was just watching this amazing movie last night and I noticed something.”
JIM: “Oh, I love amazing movies too! Go on.”
STEVE: “Well, I saw that there was this credit called “written by” but I’ll be damned if I had to do any reading…”
JIM: “Hmm. Maybe it’s for the subtitles.”
STEVE: “Oh right. Well, I don’t see why they need a credit for that. I don’t think the hearing impaired care much anyway. It’s the actors and directors people want to know about. Let’s scrap that whole “written by” on our increasingly unreliable site.”
JIM: “Already taken care of.”
They high five and give each other a raise.
What foolish, naive people they must be. What film gets made without a script? How do you get to step two without step one? Ridiculous.
If this is true, it’s a completely despicable move from the standpoint of giving credit where credit is due, and a dumb move technically as it cuts out the usability of the site (shouldn’t anyone who’s name is in the main credits – Director/Writer/Composer/Cast etc – be on the front page of the crew listings?)
HOWEVER I’m browsing through the Pro site and the Free site (I logged off the Pro site just to make sure it wasn’t a subscription issue) and can’t seem to find where any of this has taken place.
Nikki, please post a few screenshots so we can view IMDb’s newest bad business move.
Just remember the last time a friend dragged you out to watch them do improv – that is a movie without writers.
I’ve been trying in vain for 3 years to get IMDB to add my name to the 4 projects that are already listed. I’ve even had my agents bug them. IMDB are a bunch of hacks!
i’m now an additional detail. how f-ing ridiculous. they give writers the same importance as moviemeter, release date, running time. what a joke.
Thanks Nikki for mentioning it!
I’m an avid Imdb user and updater (call me a nerd, but i’m totally addicted), but this is once again a change I absolutley hate.
Not only was this moving stupid, but a title page now seems waaay uglier..
Besides the writers and other things, they also moved down the GENRE of the movie and it’s STATUS (of course shown only if its not yet released)..
greetings from Hungary,
gabor
I recently subscribed to IMDb Pro to update my contact database. I found a lot of old listings of company personnel and erroneous “In Production” listings.I expected much better. If you’re thinking of subscribing to IMDb Pro for accurate, updated and timely information about the Biz,…save your $$$.
It’s official. IMDB has gone Hollywood, relegating writers to a second tier.
It’s a ridiculous change.
We’re starting an all out protest on Twitter. Won’t you join us?
Use the hashtag #imdbfail
July 1. Writers are not just a “bunch of information.” They are THE primary creators of content.
This is disgusting. I will cancel my IMDb pro subscription. What is the best alternative for up to date info? Any recommendations?
I wanted to update my page and clicked one of my listings, and I saw my name was missing.
For a second, I thought writing that script was only a nightmare I just woke up from.
Wow, this is a perfect way of making sure that no one in the actual film industry uses IMDb. And I think that was their goal all along, to be a sort of fan film site. It must irk them that they were almost respected and used by people in independent film.
Start looking for ads for hair care products and car rental services on IMDb.
Seriously, IMDb must hate their advertisers. Perhaps they’re sick of all the film ads they get. Well, if someone comes up with a site to compete with IMDb, please let the industry know. It’s nice to have a handy, free reference source online. It’ll be even nicer to have one that actually works for people in the industry.
man, aren’t you guys over imdb, anyway? I am so deeply bored and annoyed by this ‘industry’ site which is accurate up to date only to my second cousins in new jersey who repeatedly text me to congratulate me on two year old projects. how come we get a new social networking site every six months and we’re still stuck with this asshole imdb thing for the last decade. how do we make it go away?
B- You sir, are a complete moron. You’re equating the importance of the “comments” section to the writer’s credit? Get back to your mop, it’s drying out.
Careful Parker Bennett-
CGI “minions” make a significant creative contribution to productions and deserve to be credited. Equating the contribution of artists who work on projects 15 hours a day for a year plus to the “star’s masseuse” is as insulting and unforgivable as what you have your panties in a twist about. Mind your perspective.
I’m really livid about this.
This is intentional by the “higher ups” in this business to further degrade the status of writers. Why? So they can negotiate even poorer contracts for writers in the future – Isn’t this obvious?
Yes, I am talking about a conspiracy. There were FOR SURE a hand-full of people in a windowless, dark, wood paneled, crack-smoke filled room who made phones calls to make this happen.
The little details are the most important. That is why people say “be sure to read the fine print.”
Hey “B” – do COMMENTS create movies? No.
Do PLOT SYNOPSIS create movies? No.
“B” – you are retarded.
What a ludicrous change! Do they think its just the angles of the shots that make the story compelling and bring the characters to life? What possible train of thought led these morons into thinking so little of the writer?
STEVE: “I tell you what Jim. I was just watching this amazing movie last night and I noticed something.”
JIM: “Oh, I love amazing movies too! Go on.”
STEVE: “Well, I saw that there was this credit called “written by” but I’ll be damned if I had to do any reading…”
JIM: “Hmm. Maybe it’s for the subtitles.”
STEVE: “Oh right. Well, I don’t see why they need a credit for that. I don’t think the hearing impaired care much anyway. It’s the actors who say the lines and the directors who make it look cool. People want to know about them. Let’s scrap that whole “written by” on our increasingly unreliable site.”
JIM: “Already taken care of.”
They high five and give each other a raise.
What foolish, naive people they must be. What film gets made without a script? How do you get to step two without step one? Ridiculous.
Hate that sight: they’ll accept the first piece of info they receive and consider it sacrosanct, but if you submit a follow-up/correction it gets ignored unless you send numerous and copious emails.
They have a responsibility to run a site like that accurately and they FAIL at it consistently.
Hey writers, don’t count on the WGA helping you out on this. You’ve been abandoned.
I’m not seeing the anti-writer bias here. I use both IMDb and IMDb Pro and while there seems to be some minor layout changes, nothing to get my pitchfork about. (Perhaps they have moved uncredited writers down one of the pages?) Professional writers have much bigger issues to deal with than the placement of their name on a consumer website, right?
I would love to see IMDb go for more of a wiki approach so that the info stays correct. (E.g. lock in all the actual, “official” movie and television credits, but allow users to add some “color” as lots of folks work on movies that don’t get a contractual credit and they, too, are part of its history.
Go writers!
I just sent a nasty email to IMDB. If you have a subscription, you can fire off a message at:
http://pro.imdb.com/helpdesk/contact_form
Here’s what I said:
“Dear Sir or Madam,
I am outraged that IMDB has changed its policy in regards to writing credits. The fact that IMDB will now list writers on the, “Additional Details,” page is a complete insult to those of us who are the FIRST to shape a movie or television series.
As part of my protest, I have been forwarding Nikki Finke’s post on IMDB’s new policy change to all my industry friends and contacts, and I have explored the possibility of switching to Baseline Studio System.
I truly hope you will reconsider your rash policy decision.”
Hopefully we can make a change. Thanks Nikki.
Who at IMDB thought of this? A Pricewaterhouse consultant? Funny, what does IMDB get out of this “change”. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Not more money, not new subscribers or viewers. They get nothing but bad press and eventully ask themselves, why on earth did we pay those FUCKS at Pricewaterhouse.
From Berlin, Germany with greetings
Or people could just use the Baseline Studio System like many working professionals do in this business.
The changes are not showing up on Safari yet, but they are on Firefox, so I think it depends on your browser as of now….also, there’s a big white space on top between the stars and the director’s name. Still lots of room for the “additional information” that has disappeared.
First it’s the gay authors on their sister-site amazon, who got downgraded, with lots of lies before the truth came out. Now it’s screenwriters. Let’s see what their excuse is…
Going to go back to my silly little script, w hich clearly I don’t need to turn in now because nobody needs it!
Agree with general sentiment about writer abuse in Hollywood, but really, who cares about IMDB? Aside from the insult, why is this a big deal?
Writers = Fragile I think the producer is a pretty important element in the process too, but they get no listing at all on the front page of imdb titles, let alone lower on the page. We all feel bad for the writers that now have to use that overworked middle finger to scroll a little to see your name, but do you see producers ready to boycott and rise up and revolt against imdb. Get a grip. This isn’t relegation, conspiracy nor offense. Its called web design.
Yeah… the continually pilfer your news gets. I actually remember one of their news reports recently said Winnona’s first Tim Burton movie was “Edward Scisorhands”. They can’t even use their OWN website to check facts.
My subscription is up for renewal. I emailed them informing them since I am a writer, if they want to relegate me to a lower status on their service, I will elevate my own status to that of former IMDB subscriber.
I just got this response from IMDB in regards to their writing credit change:
Re: IMDB’s New Policy On Writing Credits
by – IMDb Help Desk (1 Jul 2009 01:44:07 PM)
Thanks for your feedback.
As explained on our site at http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000040/thread/141647509 we are always looking for new ways to improve the user experience on IMDb.com.
As part of these efforts, sometimes we may alter the placement of data on the site in order to analyze the behavior and reactions of our users, and make targeted improvements and changes to our user interface as a result. For this reason, some users may notice at times that we’ve added a new feature, changed some functionality or moved around elements within a particular page or section.
No data is being removed, and these changes usually only affect a subset of our users and are not meant to be permanent at this stage.
Please rest assured that your feedback is being reviewed and will help us improve the user experience on the Internet Movie Database.
—-
Regards,
Roger
The IMDb Help Desk
If this is true, then our negative reactions to their credit change experiment will probably make a difference.
IMDB has NEVER been reliable. Credits missing, inaccurate DOB’s, confusion with other artists with similar names, the list goes on and on. Try getting anything corrected on that shit board; you’d have an easier time getting a pardon from Cheney.
I and two other writers I know are still trying to get inaccurate information corrected. One of my friends is still getting his credits mixed with a 1920’s silent film actor. Apparently he wrote for Full House as well.
No one in the industry that I know uses IMDB for anything. This is a site for fanbois from South Podunk not industry professionals.
Fuck IMDB,
IMDB’s response below. love this… so now it’s all just a test to “gauge the reaction of users.” Yeah, right. How’s that for covering their a** .Classic.
Re: moving the screenwriters’ credits to the bottom of the page
by – IMDb Help Desk (1 Jul 2009 01:44:08 PM)
Thanks for your feedback.
As explained on our site at http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000040/thread/141647509 we are always looking for new ways to improve the user experience on IMDb.com.
As part of these efforts, sometimes we may alter the placement of data on the site in order to analyze the behavior and reactions of our users, and make targeted improvements and changes to our user interface as a result. For this reason, some users may notice at times that we’ve added a new feature, changed some functionality or moved around elements within a particular page or section.
No data is being removed, and these changes usually only affect a subset of our users and are not meant to be permanent at this stage.
Please rest assured that your feedback is being reviewed and will help us improve the user experience on the Internet Movie Database.
—-
Regards,
Roger
The IMDb Help Desk
Thanks!
If your account prefs is set for Combined Details as the default, you might not see the change. Or if you click “Combined Details”, it shows the writer back at the top.
The “Main Details” page, however, shows the change, but not with every browser.
Sucks.
How about the fact that Producers can only be seen when you hit “full cast and crew”?
If you hit Full Cast and Crew link on the left side of the screen when the film’s title comes us, you’ll see the listing as it used to appear with the director, writer, cast etc.
Why is everybody so upset? We all know that IMDB stands for Illiterate Moronic Douche Bags.
Someone will create an even better site than IMDB – one that will correctly and respectfully credit the contributions of writers. That’s why I love the internet – there is always someone willing to make something even better. And now that people know what a croc IMDB is, I have the feeling that a better site will emerge soon.
Even if I have to do it myself.
on my public enemies page writers are not listed. but some here are saying they are. maybe they are testing out a new format
fuck that. silly bastards… (writers are king)
imdb is a privately-owned (though widely used) website. They’ve changed their listing practices no doubt in the hopes of better serving the majority of their customers, most of whom are not employed in the entertainment industry. This is not an intentional affront to the members of the WGA, so get over yourselves. Or at least if you’re going to complain have the decency to insist that DPs, editors, and all department heads be listed on the front page as well. Your argument would be far more compelling if it were a little less selfish.
My credits are exactly where they’ve always been, so I can’t rant about that. But this is the perfect opportunity to bitch about how immensely stupid and irrelevent IMDb has become. I haven’t been able to get anything posted (besides a studio credit) in several years. If anyone in the industry looks me up, they’ll think I’ve written only three films (I’ve written 15, all but three in development at prominent companies). And yet if some yahoo wants to post an actor’s name on my film’s site page, they can do so, and without any verification. I’m told that production companies don’t use IMDb anymore for these reasons, because it’s so outdated and inaccurate. Someone over there needs to wake up.
“Writers and composers are the only artists in the filmmaking process that begin with a blank page.”
Maybe true for writers, but composers are asked to copy the editor’s beloved temp score almost all of the time. If you are a producer, director or editor and you ask a composer “to make it more like the temp”, please know that you are a talentless cock with no vision, o.k. ?
IMDB and IMDBPro are already suspect because of their policies to (a) allow anyone to post any information on any listing with no verification of accuracy and (b) not allow inaccurate information to be corrected. (Sure, technically they’ll make corrections — but first you have to actually reach someone at IMDB to point out the error — and since they don’t return phone calls or emails, well…)
They were already inaccurate and out-of-date. Now they’re just adding tacky to the list.
From twitter:
@imdb: In a series of ongoing page layout tests for IMDb. Nothing is cast in stone. Let us know your thoughts at http://bit.ly/14gVgq
Imdb and Imdbpro.com is extremely difficult to update with correct or new information. Other competitors like the Hollywood Creative Directory and Baseline Studio Systems are so much easier. Both those are actively researching correct information where IMDB doesn’t seem to do that at all.
To correct a listing, the process requires registration, multiple pages of data entry in an interfaced designed by someone with a computer degree from the 70s.
One more reason to never use IMDB or Pro, they could take a page from the professional databases who cherish accurate, timely information. A useless site with waaaaayyyy too much credibility.
I’m a screenwriter whose name happens to be Additional Details. Needless to say, I feel as though I have arrived at the nexus of the universe.
Oh, grow up! IMDB is for fans, and the average fan doesn’t give a fig who wrote anything.
IMDB is rife with fake credits. People just make things up now. No one checks. No longer reliable. This is indeed an outrage. And to what end? Why is listing the writer down below to any advantage that IMDB might have? Even the format looks off.
just checked it, it’s true. this is the dumbest fucking idea since transformers 2. although if i were kurtzman and orci, i’d consider it a favor.
I’ve tried to remove a writing credit that I was credited with on the IMDb for YEARS via their “Update Errors and Omissions” function. The feature film in question was never even made or released and, therefore, does not exist. At one point, an e-mailed explanation given to me by an IMDb employee was “I’m friends with [the filmmaker who submitted the IMDb entry in the first place] and he says you wrote this”. Sooooo, despite the fact that thirteen seconds of fact-checking would exonerate me, the [film in question] technically “exists” as far as the IMDb is concerned because, at some point , an IMDb employee is buds with some filmmaker. If IMDb wants to be taken a little more seriously, maybe they should start with more stringent hiring practices?
I’m a TV showrunner who used IMBD quite a bit when it started–it was a useful tool. Over time it has become famously inaccurate and chowderheaded, this sleighting of writers being the latest example.
Add me to the list of writers who will soon cancel their imdbpro subscription without a quick change in this policy…
Absolutely insane. And, no reason to do it. Other than a middle finger. But, if we don’t stop using the site, bitching about it like this is like calling water wet.
Unbelievable how marginalized writers are. They concoct the entire thing out of thin air and still aren’t given their due at every turn.
imdb has always sucked anyway. I’m sure they always have all of brad pitt’s projects on there, but for those of us working in the biz and living in the real world, it’s nothing special and this only proves it further.
incorrect, vj — the writers of PUBLIC ENEMIES, including Michael Mann, are listed under “Additional Details.”
Same goes for every other movie from A-Z. Thomas Keneally and Steve Zaillian are now designated as “Additional Details” for SCHINDLER’S LIST.
Eff You, Amazon. I’m ashamed I bought the Kindle 2.
This was done for a very simple and logical reason: while the writers may “write” the movie, it’s the re-writing done but the ingenious director and the notes provided by the associate producer’s hooker and the studio head’s ten-year-old niece that make a movie great!
Puh-leeze. It’s all done according to what the users of IMDB are actually clicking on and showing interest in. So, if more people were actually clicking on and showing interest in writers, then they wouldn’t have dropped. It’s all in the numbers.
Now they know how Producers feel.
Studio System and IMDB Pro suck equally but at least IMDB doesn’t cost thousands of dollars per year.
By the way, IMDB is owned by Amazon.com and they do test things out. Which means some people, like me, are not seeing the new design layout that Nikki is reporting. IMO, the appropriate response is to use the customer feedback on the site.
Simple solution here… CANCEL your paid subscriptions to IMDB. They are worthless… anyone who is REALLY in the business doesn’t need IMDB. Their info can be easily gotten by your agent or manager and honestly, most of their info is riddled with inaccuracies. Really, if you are a writer and member of IMDB PRO, which is a laughable title in itself… please CANCEL it. Take away the money. That’s all they understand. They’re making money off OUR info… fuck them!
I can’t believe everyone gets this worked up over a website that fanboys troll through.
This is exactly why I bought a Sony E-Book over the Kindle.
Eat a bag of dicks & die, Amazon.
You’re dead to me.
NO, NO, NO, NO! Nikki must be one the most powerful people on the web. Her post was at 3:00 PM (Pacific Time?). As of 4:25 Pacific Time, all is as it was on IMDB.
How does moving writer credits to an obscure place at the bottom of the page improve their clients’ viewing experience and increase their ability to use IMDB?
Their explanation makes no sense at all.
The people at IMDB need to learn the first rule of customer service – don’t shovel horse shit and call it sunshine.
They fucked up and made a mistake – call it what it is, admit to it, and promise to fix it. That would defuse the whole thing.
I just attempted to link to the Imdb Help Desk posted in the message above, and it won’t let me contact the desk. Instead, it routes me to my ‘New Messages’ (which are, in fact, old messages sent by some lackey at Imdb telling me why they refuse to post any of my new, and very legitimate, data). They don’t want our feedback, clearly. All a ruse. So, in case you’re reading this, Imdb: If you don’t move the writers’ names back where they belong, I will cancel my subscription to Imdb Pro. Period.
imdbpro is useful but I take it with a grain of salt. IMDB is for fans and is designed with that in mind. So the writers are on the second page. Big deal. Being a feature writer is like being the center of a football team. It’s a critical position but not glamorous and most people don’t care except when you suck. When you decided to start writing, you knew this. Please back off the ledge. Let’s get more offended over things that matter.
To paraphrase Diane Duane: “Writers are not additional details!”
Writers are the essential foundation of all scripted entertainment, and IMDb’s change ironically reflects that. It is why the spot on the Hollywood totem pole that is assigned to writers is not on the bottom, but actually beneath the ground covered deep in the dirt.
Asinine.
I keep waiting for the academy awards to announce that the writers are now part of the (untelevised) technical awards!!!!
anyone who is REALLY in the business doesn’t need IMDB. Their info can be easily gotten by your agent or manager
I’m a sound designer, you insensitive clod! As far as Studio System and HCD is concerned, I don’t exist and my career is irrelevant. IMDb seems to be the only site that copiously records BTL credits.
If someone wants to try to look me up in Studio System and prove me wrong, I welcome it. I’d do it myself but I don’t have the kilodollars required to verify the accuracy of my own record. Even if I am in there, I assure you it won’t have my decade as an assistant and supervisor on indies, which are quite salient to people who hire me, and almost none of them have access to Studio System, either.
BTL people are “REALLY in the business” too.
As a writer, I was very upset by the IMDB’s new format. Like many of you, I fired off an angry letter to the techies over at IMDB. However… I just checked it out again and it looks like they put the writers back at the top. I tried it with both Firefox and Internet Explorer, and saw the same results.
Has anyone else noticed that it’s been fixed?
IMDB used to be a decent resource and a decent company to do business with. Now, with charging for pictures and posters for films annually they care only about your credit card number.
IMDB is in no way accurate anymore listing extras as if they were principal performers in films and TV with characters like “Bar Patron” or the marginally better “Nurse–uncredited.” And yet try to get an ACTUAL credit added.
I’ve had to contact them on films I’ve produced where actors randomly add themselves as characters that don’t exist in the film like “Asian Chef” and “Neighbor.” Bang, imdb posts the credit.
And when I say contact IMDB, anyone who has tried that realizes what a joke that is– You get a message like you are number 5,234 in the que.
At the end of the year they pull your headshot or movie poster. They say your account has been “suspended” because payment is due and never hear back.
It also turns out they actually DELETE your account after a year so you need to resend the digital file for movie posters and headhsots if you are late with their annual fee.On a film from 10 years ago the poster art can be a bit of a pain to pull up and email.
IMDB is making itself a joke. And now this with writers.
Seems there is an opening for a site that has ACCURATE film information because IMDB, as someone said above, has jumped the shark.
In a related story I saw some moron in town with a custom license plate that read: “IMDB ME”
To me all vanity plates–no matter what the letters– say only one thing about the driver, if you get my meaning.
I was alarmed by this news as well. I don’t know if the changes have been rolled out across the board or not but I just went and spot-checked a couple of titles and was glad to find the writers listing right where they were before. Hopefully they listened to reason??? This was 5:30 PST when I looked. If they do indeed rollout such a change I’ll a more reliable – and equitable – site to use before using IMDB.
Why is anybody so worked up over this? And what’s with the bullshit about only writers and composers starting with a black page? Are the visuals not created from scratch as well? Do the writers also put in the script info for the cinematographer on how to light a scene? Who gives a fuck… There’s always somebody below the line. And the full credits are right there on the credit page. Regardless, this is simply dictated by how many hits links are getting. They are trying to make the product the best for the average consumer. And the average consumer doesn’t give a fuck who wrote the film, and they don’t give a fuck lit it. They don’t care who wrote the music. They don’t care who made the clothing or who did the art direction. They rarely care about the director anyway. As we all know, they care about who is IN the movie. If you want tons of bullshit ego feeding recognition, go be an actor. Or even an author. Then you can have your precious credit and people may notice you.
If they are supposed to be a resource site, this is a ridiculous move. Writers are primary to the film making process. Strike that, they are a necessity.Integral. Foundation. Choose your term. If this is the path IMDB chooses, they aren’t what they purport to be. Someone else will fill the gap.
As a writer I find IMDB to be an incredibly useful tool and I’m impressed with them for quickly reversing their weird and unnecessary formatting change.
On a more important note, WHY IS EVERYONE SO ANGRY? Chillax people!
@ckn8: I assume the ckn stands for chicken as in chicken-shit. What an uninformed “bullshit ego feeding” response. You must be a bitter actor. Incredibly lame. You don’t deserve the movies you watch with that kind of attitude – and I think you hit it on the head. You are an AVERAGE consumer. Very average. And its people like you that explain the kind of low rate movies that churn out of Hollywood knowing there are suckers like you who’ll fork out to watch them.
Writers ARE an above the line credit. Period. They do not belong below BARTENDER #2.
There are certain key professionals whose names undeniably belong at the top of the page. Whether people care of not.
If others don’t want to see writers names in the top portion of IMDB listings, give them an option to customize their own viewing experience, without lowering the already-shaky industry integrity of IMDB.
And shame on IMDB for devaluing the very profession that put its parent company (Amazon.com) on the map – writers.
Signed,
An Oscar and Golden Globe winning “additional detail”
Fuck you, ckn8. Your idiot logic is like saying that whoever has the initial idea for anything deserves no credit. Believe me, nobody writing movies has some fantasy of fame – the business will never give us that, so we don’t crave it. But fair credit for having created and written a script isn’t unreasonable at all. Then again, you’re no doubt the kind of ignorant, mindless prick who thinks the director and star think it all up on set.
While this is not justified by IMDB, it’s just another thing for writer’s to complain about. They do start with a blank page, but unlike a director and/or producer who works with EVERY writer intensely to ultimately get it right– writers ONLY work if they get paid, in advance, up front. During development their end product is the result of many people who are not being paid and without whom a writer on their own could not successfully get the job done.
Dear Jamie Hardt,
If you are counting on getting jobs from people searching the IMDB for your credits, you really are not in the business. Good BTL people have an amazing network of people that keeps them working. No one just goes browsing for sound designers. And yes, I probably am an insensitive clod, so let me close by saying fuck you!
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE PEN, PARTICULARLY NIKKI FINKE’S!
On behalf of writers everywhere, thank you, Nikki.
@ckn8– The simple fact you wrote “black page” instead of “blank page” (among other things) says so much about how you are so little.
I pay IMDB to present my work not to you, the average consumer whose obvious reading comprehension is that of a meth addict who should seek their rudimentary film information on wikipedia; but to serious members of the industry who also pay money to look up people whose credits are displayed on the IMDB site.
Like so many wannabes who troll this site as if they are actually part of the film & television business, pretending to know what they’re talking about & entitled to special consideration for their stupidity, go back to Perez Hilton’s blog where you belong.
IMDb is most incorrect database in the industry．
It’s from their board．
“Kathy Bates is NOT Dead
by bluephoenix70 21 hours ago (Tue Jun 30 2009 22:06:43) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
Kathy Bates page was hacked or something. It says that she died two days ago, the same day as her birthday. ”
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000042/thread/141701783
IMDB SUCKS!!!! They still don’t have it right for the actors even!! They will not accept my credits from Under 5’s on “General Hospital” and they won’t accept a credit from a scene of mine that was cut out on “Medium”. In fact, it seems the only way to get these credits to upload is to try it the day of filming. Because I want to know how in the living hell they won’t accept legitimate credits of mine as an actress, but some bozo the clown can add “credits” from appearing in a fucking reality show contest??? Or how is it that there are extras who’ve been credited in movies but they won’t accept a credit from a tv show I was in??? I know of an actor who’s trying to upload a credit from a movie in which his scene was deleted. He’s trying to send them a copy of his CONTRACT for christsakes and they still won’t accept it. IMDB is bogus and unreliable!
If you ask me, IMDB is highly overrated and very behind the times. Not even stars’ credits and pages are factual – there are errors everywhere. In my opinion, IMDB is pretty much a gossip page because if industry professionals can’t even upload legitimate credits, than it has ZERO credibility in my opinion!!
@ SuccessfulTVFeelsInsecureMustLetYouKnowHe’sMadeIt:
As a BTL’er, I’ve heard one of Spielberg’s regular AD’s refer people to his IMDB page in lieu of a resume.
He’s still working, but no, he ain’t in the business. Must be “little people,” right?
This article, the very existence of this article is dumb. Keep in mind IMDB is owned and operated as a business. Perhaps the real foundation of their success is business? Fact is, and I can only speak from below-the-line, the only people truly entitled to anything are those who write the check.
Now put away your pitchforks after that statement, because I’ll follow up with a backhanded compliment: just because you’re a whore doesn’t mean you can’t be the best whore in the world. Don’t worry, you’re still an enormous, elemental part of the composition, but jesus christ: if you’re really so hung up on your presentation on a mildly-reliable website that you flip your shit and cry conspiracy theory at a tiny aesthetic choice mandated by a huge web business, you aren’t writing enough.
Get back to the keyboard, lose the tragically cliched’ Hollywood self importance, and write a fucking script.
I’m sure it’s frustrating to have such a hamfisted script convention pointed out by a little person below-the-liner, but I really thought the writers could be more original. What they say is right. Nothing good is coming out of Hollywood these days.
This is only what the writers deserve.
They have the most power in this business and yet they are always the last in line for everything, especially respect.
They get screwed on their deals and treated like assholes in “notes” meetings.
They sit and watch as their Oscar is treated like a consolation prize and given out to actors, directors and strippers.
And why? Because they are a bunch of snooks who stab each other in the back, discriminate against blacks and women and generally act like all the people they condemn.
Why shouldn’t IMBD take its turn to kick writers in the teeth?
They seem to like it.
IMDB is a joke. My daughter is an actress and has all kinds of credits on her page for projects she was not even in, and I have tried having them removed weekly for the past 3 years. I have signed up several accounts, trying to get them removed. No luck.
Yet when I had a real credit I wanted added, I had to fight tooth and nail to get it added!
Its very screwed up.
Nicki, thanks for drawing attention to this. It’s more important than you know.
Check out a budget. Writers are above the line. I work in entertainment legal and I use IMDB daily because I’m constantly checking out mainly writers and directors, and occasionally actors. I don’t want to have to go digging through a bunch of credits to find the writers.
To the Successful TV Writer-
I will not speculate on how writers get their job, but reading their comments here it seems like they’re pretty sensitive about their IMDb placement. If that’s about getting work or just and ego thing, I will not speculate.
Every meeting I’ve gone into with a producer or a supervisor, they had my IMDb page printed out, and it was the start of the conversation, and often they’ve already made decisions about me based on it. Please do not state your patronizing guesses about how BTL people get their job as if they are incontestable facts.
I really don’t think this is about finding work, though, as much as it is writers fighting tooth and nail for magic aknowledgement in the public record, on some level that puts them above the mere “additional details” that are the technicians.
I have more than a few writer friends, have helped them put on their shows, and none of them would tell me to go fuck myself over my credit.
I agree completely with IMDB. Screenwriters are overrated. All they do is whine about lack of respect and strike. Let’s be honest, anyone who picks up a copy of Syd Field’s Screenwriting Workbook can craft a shootable screenplay. Any craft where someone can take a UCLA Extension class and then whip up a spec script is below the line at best. I for one support IMDB. Put these shut ins where they belong, with the PA’s. People say without writers there would be no movies. I beg to differ, without IMDB there would be no writers. If a writer writes a screenplay and it doesn’t get on IMDB does he/she really exist? We execs end up writing half the screenplays anyway. I give a hundred pages of thoughtful notes but do I get a screenwriting credit? No.
Time for someone to start a WikiMovie site…
I am canceling my IMDb Pro subscription and letting them know the reason. All writers and supporters, I urge you to do the same.
Hmmm. I use IMDB daily for work. I have almost never needed to look up who the writer is. I’m looking for who the AD’s are, who’s the Key Grip? Who’s the Location Manager? What films has that Prop Master worked on?
Having said that, I still see writers in the first screen.
By the way, IMDB is not a reflection of who is above the line and who is below the line. Get over yourselves.
Wow, if you’ve ever been on a film set, you’d know how angry and dumb BTL’ers can be. Their comments here confirm it.
What “STUDIO EXEC” was thinking when he posted:
STUDIO EXEC
(to himself)
“Hey, I’m gonna write an asinine post
on DHD and get them reactionary writers
to go off with angry post calling me dumb,
part of the problem, etc.,. I’m so clever
that no one will catch on that I’m just
trying to get attention. In fact, I’m so
smart, I’ll hit every sore point the writers
have, so they wil inundate DHD with their
vitriol and I’ll be important for three
seconds of my pathetic life.”
IMDB was for a time a good and seemingly accurate resource for people in the industry.
Unfortunately the company’s lack of concern for fact checking combined with it’s staff made up seemingly entirely of unpaid interns have made it a site for fans– and at that fans who don’t care too much about factual information.
It is as accurate an industry resource as the Enquirer.
I am a member of imdbpro and that info. as far as agency rep for industry people and such is largely inaccurate.
Thanks for reminding me not to renew.
Despite almost countless remarks here about the lack of reliability of IMDB, and I concur, it is nonetheless widely used in the industry. Like the poster not too far up above me here, I’ve gone in for many pitch meetings and first meets, and my IMDB page is virtually ALWAYS the starting point for discussion. “How was that guy to work with?” “How did you get that job?” and so forth.
And in acting, literally every day I see breakdowns from long-established, well-regarded casting offices that routinely include the requirement, “MUST HAVE IMDB CREDITS!”
Yes, the CD’s are well aware of the extras who create the “man at the bar” role, but they definitely rely on the featured and guest starring credits. Which is why I’m often asked about a leading role I supposedly had a starring role in what appears to have been an early 80’s porn film made in Germany. (No, I have no idea who WAS in it, and have never heard of the film or anyone in it.)
I’m amazed by the many here relaying responses they’ve gotten from IMDB, because in 5 years of trying to get that German porn off my listing, I’ve never once had ANY kind of a response – BS, form letter, or otherwise – and even the warning letter from my attorney was ignored. Every challenge, demand and request has simply disappeared into the ether.
So, why fight it? I’m now working on having myself listed as Pacino’s acting coach for “Scarface,” as Larry Gelbart’s writing partner for “M*A*S*H*,” and as an Executive Producer for “The Office.”
As a publicist, I couldn’t even begin to tell you how awful IMBD is. And for anyone who thinks this is just about getting jobs, you might want to ask what alternatives the press have for getting information about films. We were almost grieved on a film because the information on the site was inaccurate, so much so that I offered to send them the back of the call sheet so they could up date their information. They informed me that this was a “user generated” site — i.e., they wanted us to update the information (which is a tedious process for one entry and a full time job for a whole cast and crew). But we did, we had a poor PA work for three days inputing the correct information. And it still didn’t work. Some of the information got updated, some not. I’ve had it with IMDB and I tell every press person every chance I get that it is not an accurate source of information. And therein lies the danger of IMDB – they are right some of the time. The problem is some of the time doesn’t work for reference sources. It’s just the only game out there — there is money to be made for someone who can do it right.
Thanks for starting the conversation Nikki.
If it wasn’t for writers, there would be no Brad Pitt, or Tom Hanks or Tom Cruise or Angelina Jolie, and so on…you get the picture. STUPID F***ng a-holes.
SOME ACTORS’ COMPLAINTS re IMDb:
1. WRONG BIRTH DATES (which may adversely influence casting)
2. EXTRAS (wannabees Actors who list bogus credits)
3. UPDATES/CORRECTIONS (even with proof) nearly IMPOSSIBLE to change once listed.
4. PRIVATE INFORMATION (right and/or wrong) MADE PUBLIC may be to the detriment of Actors
5. ACTUAL CREDITS NOT RECOGNIZED (even with proof)
Who benefits most from Artists’ listings on IMDb? FANS, TRICKSTERS, and STALKERS, perhaps?
Are Actors and Writers subjects of ABuse on IMDb?
Since IMDb may be considered an internet business (which business is to sell information and Artists’ listings) for monetary gain and/or public recognitition, SHOULD IMDb BE SUBJECT to a higher standard of scrutiny? Who has authority to oversee IMDb?
From the many negative comments that have been posted here regarding the false and/or incorrect listings of information on IMDb, is it reasonable to conclude that IMDb may be ABusing it’s presumptive power? Shouldn’t IMDb allow corrections to be made by the Artists, themselves? Why have ‘hackers’ and/or others been allowed to wreak havoc on the careers by either listing or ommitting information?
Was IMDb created to benefit, or, to exploit, CREATIVE ARTISTS, particularly, Actors and Writers?
No need to respond to the charming people who don’t know the difference between a typo and and a misspelling. I’m sorry this outraged you so much.
I’m just here to respond to whoever said I must be a bitter actor. That’s far from the truth… and I – generally – respect writers far more than actors. Actors are just easy targets. I stand by my point that imdb is a fan site first and foremost. And I can pretty much promise you that traffic on writers’ imdb pages is nothing compared to even a marginally known actor or director. It’s just the way it is. Back to my original point, just be thankful you’re not DPs… then you’d get absolutely zero recognition for putting the “visual” into a visual medium.
Oh. And the majority of you are humorless. Calm down.
IMDB is the greatest threat to world stability since the rise of Nazi Germany. And that’s not hyperbole. Inaccurate, misleading, slow, non-responsive and a huge bunch of dicks. Do you know anyone who’s tried to contact IMDB aside from via their standard email “response form”? It’s impossible. Try getting a phone no. for these assholes, or the last name of an employee. My credits were wrong for years. My attempts to correct the inaccuracies were futile, other than generic responses from “Roger”, “Susan” and “Dirk.”
The WGA is about a half step above IMDB. WGA reps are also incompetent, but at least you can pick up a phone and call them. And occasionally they’re willing to divulge their last names. Other than that, they’re as lame as IMDB. I’ve been telling the WGA for years that IMDB is a joke, and it took this to get them to act.
How about putting Producers at the top as well. Real Producers, not managers, or ex-agents, or sisters and brothers of stars. The people who create projects form scratch, and hire the directors and writers. The people who actually hang around in post, and understand the whole process. Once again, they are screwed.
The Producers Guild is a pathetic joke.
IMDB is slightly less accurate than the maps to the homes of movie stars they sell on Sunset.
Are you saying that IMDBPRo IS reliable. The two sites are both unreliable and they don’t even match each other.
I’ve been using IMDb and IMDbPro for several years now, both for professional and personal. I think it’s a much more reliable site that say Flixster, which is what all the kids are using now.
IMDb’s current f-up; any title that starts with the word “The” is now listed under the T’s. For example, they way it used to be: Shawshank Redemption, The – Currently: The Shawshank Redemption. I know it’s a just a small inconvenience, but for me, it’s enough to warrant just another stupid thing IMDb has done recently.
Not so much on this note, but you said you are a frequent updater…How the hell do you add credits with episode titles or numbers to an imdb profile. It’s a long running show, and TV.com has all of my credited episodes, but I think I need to give imdb my firstborn when trying to update. I’d appreciate any advice.
Richard Manfredi