UPDATE: So now I know the real deal. After lying to the writers of the Sit Down, Shut Up! primetime animated series that it would be a WGA show, and then watching those same writers stalk off the IATSE toon, Sony offered a sweetened deal -- including payments of as much as $200,000 of additional compensation through a blind script deal -- to convince some of the scribes to come back.
Most of the writers -- including Josh Weinstein, Rich Rinaldi, Aisha Muharrar, Alex Herschlag, Laura Gutin, Dan Fybel, Aaron Ehasz, Michael Colton, and John Aboud -- wound up coming back. Two -- Bill Oakley and Ken Keeler -- are still holding out for WGA jurisdiction of the show. That's not going to happen because the toon is back in production.
There are conflicting accounts coming in to me about exactly what the Sony deal contains. Some sources say one still unresolved issue is WGA plan health and pension benefits. Other insiders tell me that's been resolved. In the letter sent to me by some of the returning WGA writers, no mention of this is made. "Though the program will be produced under the jurisdiction of IATSE Local 839, The Animation Guild (TAG), we have achieved Writers Guild of America (WGA) parity in key areas such as auditable residuals, new media, script fees, merchandising rights as well as a guarantee that these gains apply not only to ourselves but also to all future writers on the show."
The writers going back tell me that not every writer received more money from Sony, and not all received the same amount. But the sweetened deal was offered to them in June. "We did not take it. Instead we went back to Sony and said that we would not take a deal unless it had the WGA-parity residual protections for us and for future writers on this show. They said no. So we said no. This went back and forth for several weeks, until they met our demands," one of the scribes tells me. "Did the new offer contain more money? Yes. But that didn't affect the issues that were central to our bottom line. We wouldn't have gone back without them. And if Sony offered tomorrow to make this a WGA show and take the money off the table, fine. We would jump at that chance."
Some see this as the toon being saved because Sony threw money at the problem. Like one WGA leader who told me tonight, "the siege ended with a bribe". The writers who went back had this to say, "This contract is a compromise: an improvement over the standard TAG terms we were initially offered, but not full WGA coverage."
Sony issued this statement:
"We are happy that the writers have agreed to return to work on Sit Down, Shut Up! This is going to be a great show and we can't wait to see it on the air on Fox."
The WGA West statement immediately followed:
"Los Angeles – The fundamental issue here was WGA jurisdiction. Every primetime animated show currently on the air has been done under WGA jurisdiction with terms enforced by the WGA. Every single one. In the case of Sit Down, Shut Up! Sony insisted on hiring WGA writers, and Sony execs repeatedly assured them the show would be WGA. When the writers were told it would not be WGA, they walked out and demanded WGA coverage. For five weeks, they faced continuous ultimatums and illegal threats from Sony, while at the same time Sony offered enhanced economic terms. Finally, when Sony offered to pay ‘WGA equivalent residuals’ and to give each writer up to $200,000 in additional compensation through a blind script deal, most of the writers decided to accept. We understand why they did so but wish they hadn’t. Had they stuck together we believe that they would have won WGA coverage for Sit Down, Shut Up! Two WGA members refused the deal, and we and their fellow writers applaud them.”
I'm told tonight that the WGA can't believe Sony was so determined to keep this show IATSE that it paid extra to get the writers back to work than choosing the cheaper path of bringing Sit Down, Shut Up! under WGA jurisdiction. "Obviously, they would rather make this incredibly uneconomic decision to try to roll back the WGA's coverage of animation and win this war one show at a time."
WGA insiders see this as a plan hatched by Sony's chief labor lawyer Jean Bonini, who also is Sony's representative on the AMPTP negotiating committee. "And that plan is to turn everything on its head and to give more and more control to the low-cost unions like IATSE and AFTRA at the expense of the WGA and SAG who are hurt by this. Residuals will become a thing of the past. It boggles the mind," one WGA leader tells me. "The AMPTP is so determined to make a stand here that it's just throwing money out the door in order for this not to be a WGA show. The AMPTP is running these CEOs."
Having been the first to break the initial story of the WGA writers' walkout on Sit Down, Shut Up!, and then to follow the controversy (see my posts below), I'm very conflicted about all of this. I'm thrilled to see enough give-and-take by Sony and some of the writers on the show so a lot of peoples' jobs above and below the line are saved. But what horseshit for Sony to have kept whining it couldn't change the toon's jurisdiction without getting sued by IATSE. (As if...) I also commend the the two writers still holding out for WGA jurisdiction because of principle. But I also can't condemn those who went back, either. This was their fight, not mine.
Nevertheless, what did this really cost Sony? Nasty headlines about its executives lying to talent. Embarrassing questions for Sony Pictures Entertainment chairman Michael Lynton about his company's lack of integrity in the way it does business. This is a town of handshake deals and long-lasting relationships. If Sony is now seen as an untrustworthy employer and partner, then the price is way too high.


To any SDSU writer reading this:
Are they going to pay you WGA health and pension on that $200,000 blind commitment? Or is that $200,000 payment also under TAG.
It’s none of my business, but hey, I’m curious. Thanks.
Wow, hard to be too critical here… $200 grand? That would be hard to turn down.
Still, surprised to see Aboud’s name on that list. He was Mr. Solidarity during the strike, did that great AMPTP website spoof, headed up the StrikeTV video thing…
Surprised he would do such an abrupt turnaround and put himself on the WGA’s shit list like this.
Oh well, I guess if we didn’t like money we’d write novels, huh?
There has to be a line drawn in the sand. IATSE and AFTRA have to end for writers and actors. They do not serve us.
The Dirty Nine? Doesn’t rhyme as well but certainly as true.
If ANY of these nine went around during the strike criticizing the 30, then they’re a bunch of fucking hypocrites. The Dirty 30 lost MILLION DOLLAR deals, whereas the Dirty Nine sold out the WGA’s future for 200 grand each.
And then they have the nerve to conveniently leave out the detail of that bribe from their press release? Shame on them. Oh well, I hope they didn’t put that money in IndyMac, because those nine writers are never gonna work again.
These writers had no choice.
Hurwitz went back to work weeks ago. He broke the line. Without him, the writers were powerless.
What studio is going to go to war with IATSE over a fledgling show, even if they could possibly win? Sony Adelaide is totally 100% under IATSE jurisdiction. That’s just a cold, hard fact.
The writers are getting parity, and in many cases blind script deals. They can invest their 200k in a 401k and get more than they would from WGA benefits, and a shot at a pilot – which would certainly be WGA. They’ve pocketed that deal whether SDSU tanks or not.
It’s easy to say they’re not being loyal to their union, but in this depressed television market, who can blame them for taking a more than reasonable deal. And it was the WGA that decided to give up on animation jurisdiction.
I think that Sony is doing its best to make up for their blunder, and I think that the writers held out for a fair deal. They didn’t just roll over, after all.
And, as anyone who has dealt with creative executives knows, they often make promises in ignorance of labor relations, guild rules and business affairs. It isn’t necessarily nefarious. I think it is likely that they thought they could pull off getting the writers WGA jurisdiction, and never consulted labor relations. Sony tends to be very talent friendly in the television department, and on top of it the Tannenbaums are their own, so why would they intentionally screw with that relationship? Or with Mitch? Or the other writers? I’m pretty sure Jean Bonini had a heart attack when she heard what promises had been made. I’ve dealt with her myself, and she’s had to clean up a mistake or two of mine in regards to the guilds and she did so in a fair, no nonsense manner. She never appeared to be anti-guild – just anti-grievance if it was at all avoidable.
I think this was likely all one giant misunderstanding – and so long as all the involved parties end up satisfied with the conclusion, even if it isn’t ideal, why cast stones at the writers. And Sony messed up. But it does seem like they’re doing what they can – considering that they are a Studio…
To my understanding, the “bribe” / blind script commitment is actually specifically designed to be paid through the WGA, and to max out the writers’ health/pension contributions. Which is why not each writer got the same amount… the lower level writers got more, since they didn’t already have other WGA-applicable deals in place.
IE: If you’re an upper level writer who comes into SDSU with a fat development commitment already in place elsewhere (and thus your WGA contributions already maxed out), then you received less for the new blind script commitment.
Each of these writers… from the top down… knew that this was an IATSE show when they accepted employment. THE SIMPSONS went for SEVEN YEARS before being unionized, largely because WGA members considered animation writers to be second class citizens.
I think that what the SDSU writers have done – walk out on a show and achieve WGA parity in a situation where they had almost NO leverage, and where the show creator backed Sony and was ready to return to work immediately – is absolutely incredible and exemplary.
And if the WGA is so upset and felt so strongly about this, why didn’t they ask the writers of the other Sony primetime shows to ALSO walk out in solidarity? Or better yet, during the recent strike, before they took animation writing “off of the table,” why didn’t the WGA try to make a distinction between “broadcast primetime” and “other” animation writing? (And are we all still ignoring the fact that Patric Verrone worked on the IATSE show CLASS OF 3000 twenty-four months ago?)
Never mind CAA, who made three individual deals for the Tannenbaums, Mitch Hurwitz, and Oakley & Weinstein without ever thinking to demand that the show be WGA. Unbelievably derelict representation… and worth being fired over. But at least their precious package survived.
Sad to say but I suspect the writers who went back to work have been duped by Sony. The studio will probably figure out a way to say that the writers haven’t performed adequately under the blind script deal, and eventually refuse to pay them. Then the writers will have to get lawyers to sue, and they’ll wind up settling for half. Any writer who’s been in this business a while knows that what I’m saying is true. They did this to lure everyone back, and then they’ll figure out how not to pay down the road.
Seriously, what were these writers thinking to go back? Did we really all strike so this bunch of wusses could sell us out? These writers are getting some bad advice.
I still think it’s interesting that Mitch Hurwitz the show runner hasn’t commented. Has he put some great distance between himself and this ungodly mess?
This was a no win situation borne out of the WGA putting animation on the table, then taking it off the table, at the onset of the strike.
The strike was over. And whether there was duplicity on Sony’s part – and I’m sure there was – the nine writers got what they negotiated for. (I am not one of them)
There are hundreds of TV animation writers who won’t make 200K in their lifetime, let alone off of one season of a show.
Call it a bribe, call it equity. In the end, a standard was set for what prime time writers make on a prime time animated show, and the reality of having two unions cover one job (See SAG/AFTRA).
The WGA should use this to champion the cause of writers, and proactively get in front of the next one. Writers need to be aware of what union they’re working for before they start writing a cartoon, because there are two. And IATSE should be using this to raise their “the least that can be paid” on a cartoon for all animation, not just prime time.
Villifying these nine is unnecessary, unkind and petty. They wildcatted for equity, and got close. In my opinion, that’s as good as anything that happened over the course of the strike.
Bill Oakley just earned even more of my respect.
Aboud. What a hypocrite.
Aren’t Oakley & Weinstein — both on opposite sides of the deal — long-term writing partners ever since their “Simpsons” days?
To all those animation writers who bitched about the WGA leadership selling you down river during the AMPTP negotiations…. waaaaaa…. your own brethren just f..ked you really good.
I believe this is an example of the phrase “money talks, bullshit walks”
can’t blame them for taking that kinda bump.
Amen on the “true cost” of this boondoggle.
I call these kind of stunts a “self-fulfilling idiocy” where someone comes up with something they think will be a solution to what they think is a problem, but their “solution” can only, and obviously create new, and more expensive, problems.
And with investors looking askance at Hollywood’s more sordid business practises, you have to at least appear trustworthy, now more than ever.
How is the WGA in any position to complain about these guys taking this deal? They were fighting for WGA jurisdiction over animation and they gave it up. The only reason the writers had to fight for this kind of deal is because the WGA caved in the first place.
I’m not a union guy myself, not big on them, but I supported the writer’s strike vehemently. These nine writers are, quite simply, pathetic. Accepting this kind of deal right after the strike clearly shows the immense gap between the haves and have-nots among the WGA members and that solidarity comes with a price tag among the haves. In this case, a measily $200,000.00. But the ultimate price here was trust; two writers, clearly faithful to the WGA, got screwed by their fellow members.
But, hey, that’s Hollywood right?
–Raider
And now come the ignorant, fanatical rants from people who aren’t in the business, don’t know the full story and don’t care to. I do know someone involved in this mess, and it’s a lot more complicated than you’ve read. How long before idiots like ‘Disappointed’ start calling the Sit Down Shut Up Writers ’scabs’ ? This is precisely the kind of demented frothing at the mouth that none of us miss from the strike. And ‘Raider’, while I’m sure you’re a highly talented working writer who understands just what it means to earn a living doing what we do – there is no such as ‘measily;,
Anonymous wrote: They can invest their 200k in a 401k and get more than they would from WGA benefits
Uh, what kind of uninformed moron are you? 401k’s are only through your employer. Seriously, my third-grader knows that. Come to think of it, Anonymous, didn’t I see you in line at IndyMac yesterday?
Gotta agree with “Been there.” Sony can promise the returning writers blind script deals, anything they want… but good luck trying to enforce a contract without the WGA behind you. It seems very likely the script deals will get rolled for a season, then abandoned. Especially if the show is canceled. And sure, the returning writers can then spend their own money to sue Sony. Or they can settle for pennies on the dollar, which is what always happens.
Of course, they can always get IA to enforce their deal. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Just kidding.
Dear Kevin (alleged head of TAG 839 animation “writers” union),
How many of the above-named pseudonyms are you? I’m guessing it could be several of the ones proclaiming Sony is great and the WGA sucks.
Dear retards in this business – I meant IRA. Sorry to offend you. Please feel free to respond to any of my other comments. I look forward to your insights. Really, I do.
p.s, I was the one in the blue polka dot shirt drinking an Orange Julius and reading Teen People. Man, it was hot out there!
“but good luck trying to enforce a contract without the WGA behind you.”
Have you ever tried to get the WGA to enforce the MBA for you? The first thing they tell you if you call with a grievance is to talk to your attorney and/or your agent.
Enforcement isn’t the Guild’s strong suit.
Amen! to “Actual Writer.”
I respect the writers that chose not to take the deal, and I don’t lose any respect for those who did.
Actual Writer:
You found a typo, good for you. You’ll have a big career as a reader somewhere.
Actual Writer — so you think that no writers who are actually in this business would have any problem with what the returning SDSU writers did? I think you are misreading the attitude of the membership.
It wouldn’t have been wrong for these WGA members to take a writing job on a show that was clearly IATSE/TAG from the start, but remember, these writers WALKED OFF THE JOB and insisted that Sony honor its promise to make this a WGA shop. That’s acting on principle. But then giving up that fight for a bribe, well, that’s wrong.
You act like there’s no dissent in the WGA here, at least not among “actual writers” — but apparently there’s enough of a disagreement here to have broken up the long-running Oakley-Weinstein partnership.
In fact, I strongly doubt you are an “actual writer” of anything beyond grocery lists. You’re probably yet one more studio shill posting on these boards.
Dear WGA writer -
What did the SDSU writers do? They took a deal that they felt compensated them for the studio’s F-up. Wow, that is so disgusting! Gather the nooses.
Please do some fact checking. The studio that produced SDSU is Sony Adelaide. Not Sony, per se. Sony Adelaide is under IATSE jurisdiction, as it has been from the beginning. No way to change that.
None of the writers’ reps did their due diligence. Sony can’t make the show WGA without a lawsuit. Sony CAN’T honor their promise. Yeah, it sucks, but that’s the way it is.
Nobody expects writers to know the ins and outs of this stuff – so this is what happens when people, or their people, don’t look into it. And this is what happens when CE’s don’t, either.
So what do you want these writers to do? Quit? Be outraged and unemployed like you? Or take what the studio can offer after their misstep – an offer which seems fair in the face of this bad situation. This isn’t a black and white issue – it’s more complicated than your angry head can handle, so stop spewing the venom when you don’t know one whit about how labor relations and guilds work. The righteous indignation should be reserved for someone who knows what’s going on and has a legitimate reason to cast stones.
What do writers work for (besides trying to create something they’re proud of)? Money. Well, maybe not you. Maybe you write your journal entries and unread pilots just for the joy of the craft. Your phone must be ringing off the hook. I’m happy for you. Good luck with that “Cavemen” spec. You can do a nice polish on is when you finish your Syd Fields screenwriting workshop that came with your student version of Final Draft.
Maybe I’m a shill (you’d like to think that). A shill that won’t be hiring you and your insipid, ignorant little attitude.
I applaud ALL the writers in this. They all fought. And the 9 that went back got WGA parity on EVERYTHING, including the 200k, which is not a bonus, but a back to cheat to the WGA health and pension fund. The WGA should be ecstatic.
I’m proud of all of them for fighting. Even the 2 that held out for WGA.
We’re gonna fuck ourselves in this union if we pick on each other who make things better for all of us.
I’m starting to think Verone is a douche. The all/ or nothing dogma is wearing thin. And not helpful to any of us.
Another Grocery List Writer:
I do wish you’d reconsider and think about giving me a job after all. I could sit patiently and listen to your blowhard rants with deep reverence. I could nod my head knowingly while you pontificate about the law from the always welcome non-lawyer’s point of view. I could calm you down when you get overwhelmed by your copious self-hatred. I could genuflect with awe when you point out the nuanced difference between Sony and Sony Adelaide. I could reassure you of your flawless logic when you decide that any writer who disagrees with you must be unemployed. I could remind you that you’re still a success despite the fact that your parents consider you a failure. I could help you come up with other shining examples of sarcasm like “I’m happy for you.” And I could applaud you while you take your lit cigarette and rub it into the arm of your three-year-old daughter.
References available upon request.
Hey “Actual Writer”
You dismiss people’s comments with ad hominem attacks, the least intelligent and flawed level of discourse, and then you label THEM “idiots.”
Hmmmm…..
Then you throw in a statement like, “This is precisely the kind of demented frothing at the mouth that none of us miss from the strike.”… As if YOU speak for the homogenous Borg mindset of 7000 WGA members.
Hmmmmm……
Last, you wrap it up with the moniker
“Actual Writer”
As if people contradicting you, aren’t.
Triple hmmmmm………
FYI, I’ve been in WGA and DGA for over a decade, had shows/movies on the air and in the theaters, and know people “involved” too.
And I still say the show’s writers screwed their fellow animation writers. Do you wish to discuss this, or sling mud?
Something doesn’t add up, literally. 14 writers walk out. 9 hold out for five weeks, then reach a compromise, and 2 refuse to compromise. That leaves 3 missing, including the SHOWRUNNER. WTF Nikki?
Dear WGA writer,
You’re hired! I LOVE genuflecting. Though as my employee, you’re the one who will have to put out the cigarettes on my daughter. It will indeed be soothing to have someone take over the burden of hating me – it’s simply too exhausting to do myself.
One last thing – do you actually have one single, cogent, relevant point to make about this whole issue other than coming down on writers who made a decent deal for themselves and likely paved a better way for the writers who follow? You see, future primetime animation at Sony will now be WGA thanks to these writers that you so off-handedly condemn…
I honestly do wish you well. You seem a bit of a jerk and you have no respect for writers, just guild rhetoric – but at least you’re passionate. I respect that.
See you Monday. You can show up late as I have a lot of nuancing and pontificating to do in the AM.
Cheers!
Grocery: Paved a better way for the writers who follow?! How, by weakening the Guild of said writers?
I originally thought you were a shill for Sony, but now I realize I am wrong. You are one of the nine SDSU writers who went back to work. Has to be, otherwise no way you have such a big bug up your butt about this.
Take your 200 grand, and enjoy, but please don’t kid yourself that you’ve made things better for your fellow working writers. You showed Sony that it’s not about the Guild, it’s about money, and that some writers are willing to destroy their own union from within for a buck. So have fun on your little cartoon, hope it was all worth it.
WGA Writer,
This is getting redundant, but:
Please – do tell. How is the guild weakened by this? Really, HOW? What precisely did these writers do that was wrong? They forced Sony to give them a deal equal to the WGA (inc. residuals and NM), knowing that it was impossible (IMPOSSIBLE) for this particular show to become WGA. Ever heard of a precedent? They’re pretty important things. If you really are a writer, you should have a great appreciation for precedents like these. Yes this was about money – it was about getting the SAME COMPENSATION as a WGA show – including benefits.
The $200g is a Pension payment – NOT a bribe. Remember the whole parity thing?
Personally, I hold the writers that refused to accept the deal, and those who took it in equal esteem for separate reasons.
Sorry to disappoint your paranoid delusions, but my paycheck doesn’t come from Sony or SDSU. But I’ll happily use some of it to buy you a pretty new outfit to help get you out of your bitter little funk.
And, please, if you actually do want to have a legitimate debate about this, I’m more than pleased to take this to a cordial level. You just need to give me something to work with. I don’t need you to agree with me – I just need you to give me a valid reason to respect your dissenting opinion. Well, I really don’t need either, but debate is healthy. Bring it on.
Am I missing something here? These writers did for themselves what a ridiculously led strike could not. They actually improved their situation! When the WGA tossed animation out the window they lost the moral high ground with all animated shows. Get real people, your blame is misplaced.
Congrats writers. You stood up for an issue when your so called union would not. And you got something out of it. I can think of 9 people who are more qualified to lead the WGA the next go ’round.
Did Mitch really go back before the writers? I really would hate to think that. What a rat.
Dear Another Grocery List Writer,
You asked someone, “Do you actually have one single, cogent, relevant point to make about this whole issue” after you spent the better part of your post attacking that writer and others, and assuming that any writer who disagreed with you was too dumb to hold a writing job and thus unemployed.
How is that cogent or relevant? It’s just nasty and defensive.
You then go on to say that all primetime animation at Sony will from now on be WGA because of the stand these nine writers took. As Jon Stewart would say: HUH?
How did you come up with that? Because these nine caved to Sony and IATSE, it helps future writers be WGA? That makes no sense. If it showed Sony anything, it was that lying and bribery work with writers and it laid out a blueprint to show how to do things NON-wga.
Seriously, what you’re saying makes no sense at all. Before SDSU came along with its staff of scabs, EVERY primetime animation show was WGA and NONE were IATSE. Now the first crack has appeared as one show has been broken off from the WGA. That creates an incentive for Sony — and other studios — to try the same thing next time. How in the hell does your little brain decide that this actually means that the WGA is now guaranteed to cover every future animation show?
Who are you anyway and what’s your stake in this? I’m not asking for your name, but obviously you are not an outside observer. You may not be one of the SDSU writers as some suppose, but are you Sony? Are you IATSE/TAG? I mean, which flavor asshole describeth thou?
LeBecFin –
You are correct about something – I have been using a nasty tone and that IS wrong. I should have taken the high road. I think if you reread my other posts, you’ll get where I’m coming from on why this does help other writers and why the writers concerned are not villains.
Sony cannot offer any primetime writers less than what they’ve now offered the SDSU writers, which is in almost every aspect WGA parity, and doesn’t save Sony money, so it is not in their interest to force primetime (emphasis on primetime) animation writers to work under TAG. They just won’t be able to hire the writers through Adelaide. This has been a huge headache for Sony, not to mention the writers. This is a very particular and unique situation. There is no reason whatsoever to expect it to happen again. IF it WERE in Sony’s best interest to do future shows in the same manner as their “fix” on SDSU – then I would agree with everyone that something was way too fishy. But, quite simply, it’s not in their, or any other studio’s best interest to conduct future business in this manner – financially or otherwise (they can’t afford to alienate talent) at least in the network primetime game.
I am defending the writers because they were in a nearly impossible situation, they held strong, and made a very respectable deal – ensuring that writers that follow will get AT LEAST as good a deal. I think it is unfair to call them scabs, when the studio screwed up. And especially since the guild didn’t fight for animation jurisdiction during the strike on top of it. I think that certain execs at Sony made promises that they thought that they could keep, but couldn’t. A couple months later we find ourselves here.
This isn’t the destruction of the guild. It isn’t a dent in the guild. It is just a mistake that kinda, sorta got fixed – at least as well as possible all things considered.
Also, there is no rule that primetime animation is WGA. A niche was carved out at Fox, not a rule. This show was not a Fox produced show.
I am not a shill, I am not an SDSU writer. Yes, I work in this business. I have no ulterior motives. I just hate petty attacks on people when I don’t feel they’re warranted and the people throwing out the aspersions don’t consider all the facts. I don’t have all the facts either. Just some of them. – And I have some strike fatigue from all the infighting and name calling that went on during those months. It seems like a lot of writers take great joy in eating there own as soon as they smell a little blood. Why is that? Why the rush to judgement?
But as you brought up, being petty in return is not the answer. Thank you for that wake-up call.
Hey there Grocery List, one thing you’re pretty certain about but that I’m not understanding why, is your insistence that the next time Sony does a prime-time toon they’ll have to give the writers at least a good as deal as they wound up giving the SDSU 9.
In a world where, at least on sitcoms, the studios are undermining quotes (and titles) year after year, what’s to keep them from simply saying from the get-go on their next prime-time toon that it’ll be IATSE/TAG with whatever minimums apply. Yeah, they might not get some writers to go along, but most will, especially in an environment where there is hardly any scripted comedy work left. And there’s always Harvard newbies without little mouths to feed willing to work for whatever scraps are thrown their way.
I think what you might be missing here G.L. is that even though Sony may be out-of-pocket the same as they’d be if this were WGA, the very fact that it is not WGA is worth something to Sony – and to their studio brethren. They all seem to be trying to strip SAG and WGA of as much work as possible, and if they were serious about doing this as WGA ever, they would have created a production entity other than Adelaide to do it with. That they did not says they never intended for it to be WGA. I think the studios view this as a first step toward peeling prime-time animation away from the WGA.
As for the argument that this is the WGA’s fault for caving on animation during the strike, this seems like a specious argument to me. Of course the WGA wanted to get more ani jurisdiction, but this would only be beneficial to a small chunk of the membership. Look what happened with reality jurisdiction – same thing. The bigger, more powerful writer factions, people like Mazin, were able to use that as a club to divide and conquer with, saying in effect, Are we really losing our homes and development deals to help a few reality and animation writers? If you followed the strike, as it sounds like you did, you know the Guild was not in a position to hold out for animation – it just wasn’t practical.
I’m a WGA writer, have been for 15 years. You say you work in the business – well, doing what? Writer? Ani writer? WGA writer? Director? Exec? Crew? Agent? Producer? Why the reticence to even disclose what type of work you do? I think it will be informative to people and help them to understand this situation to know from what perspective you’re seeing all this.
Thanks. Looking forward to your thoughts.
Why is everyone acting like these 9 writers have destroyed WGA jurisdiction over primetime animation? It never existed in the first place. At most, it existed in de facto for FOX produced shows. This is not a FOX produced show. No production company is under any obligation to produce an animated show under WGA terms (including FOX). This is strictly IATSE territory.
I agree with Nikki, this is a handshake town (sort of, until someone doesn’t get what they want). That holds true for the production/union side as well. Sony Adelaide is signatory to IATSE for all animation writers. If Sony was to break their contract for this show why would IATSE expect it to honor the contracts for all their other shows? That’s why Sony would have quickly, and justifiably, been sued by IATSE despite what the WGA tells you. What would the WGA do if Sony tried to change a WGA pilot to IATSE for the series. Sony Adelaide signed a contract with IATSE 12 years ago for their animation writers. Writers the WGA didn’t care enough about to cover. Oh yeah, they didn’t bother with them this time around either. They were tossed aside for the fantastic and ground breaking new media terms the other writers received.
What I hear from my friends at Sony is the Development Execs did what all Development execs do. Make “creative” decisions without considering the business implications. They weren’t lying nor did they have ulterior motives. They simply made promises that they were unaware they couldn’t keep. Sony has a new deal with the Tannenbaums and Mitch Hurwitz that they wouldn’t jeopardize like this. This was simply a mistake. A big mistake for sure, but still a mistake. No more no less. If you think Zach Van Amburg and Jamie Erlicht are out to break the WGA you give them too much credit. I know the headlines aren’t as titillating the way I described them, but every deal gone awry isn’t deserving of an Oliver Stone movie.
I blame WGA leadership for putting these writers in this position. And EVERY WGA member that approved the latest contract.
Get Real blames WGA leadership and members for these writers excepting a bribe from Sony? How about blaming Hurwitz and the Tannenbaums for signing on to do an IATSE show? Hurwitz is scum, worse than the Tannenbaums because they’re not writers.
Hurwtiz is the leader. He should have demanded that 20th Century Fox take over producing this show. They’re “silent” partners in this deal. 20th could have easily taken over the reigns and made it a WGA show, just like ALL OF THEIR OTHER ANIMATED SHOWS ARE.
Get Real – please, why don’t you???
I hope the show bombs, Mitch and no one who believes in the WGA and what we walked for hires you. EVER.
Get real,
You need to follow your own advice. You said “this is strictly IATSE territory” one second after acknowledging that every primetime animated show is WGA not IATSE. Maybe what you say was true once, but TAG’s famously inept leadership botched that and let primetime slip away. Primetime is now WGA, baby, except for SDSU which will last about a week and then be quickly forgotten. (Carpoolers, anyone?)
Then you say, if Sony broke the contract with IATSE for SDSU, then why would IATSE honor its other contracts with Sony? That is one of the stupidest things I’ve heard someone ask. What, IATSE would have walked away from all other shows and given up jurisdiction? Why, to teach Sony a lesson? You need to get real, Get Real.
You don’t understand the business all that well if you’re going to put up such a firewall between “creative execs” and “business execs.” Creative execs represent the company, from a legal basis, just as much as the business execs, as far as making the company bound by what they say. If a creative tells a writer or writers representation something, that’s the same legally as if Sony business affairs says it.
And why would you possibly blame the WGA leadership for putting these writers in this position? Because you’re a member of the Dirty 30 who lost their deal during the strike? Because you and your asshole buddy were defeated by Verrone in the election? Because you’re an animation writer who wishes he was a real writer?
Even more assholian, you say you blame every writer that approved the latest contract. You are delusional, pal, if you think screenwriters and showrunners were going to give up months of pay to help a few animation writers. Seriously delusional.
You also seem to lack a basic understanding of Hollywood unions and how they gain jurisdictions. Those gains have come through organizing, not through collective bargaining. The Daily Show, Colbert etc happened through organizing. As long as TAG is run by idiots like Kevin, who have their head up their ass all day long, and take a union salary for spending their days reading and posting on internet blogs instead of fighting for their members, TAG will continue to splinter and drift and lose jurisdiction bit by bit to the WGA.
Hi, Not Sure -
I’m going to try not to regurgitate a lot if info that is already posted by me and others.
“Get Real” pretty much nailed it. I was trying not to name names. Although, I suppose it doesn’t really matter. Further, the SDSU pilot was actually a 3 minute presentation that was originally intended to be nothing more than a taped table read. When they decided to produce the animation nobody thought out the ramifications for the series by doing the presentation through Sony Adelaide – where all their animation is produced. They just got it done. Then it gets picked up and there are unanticipated problems when they hire the writing staff. But they couldn’t undo what was done. They could only try to work around it. Since this show doesn’t really have any legs yet, Sony went to great lengths to make up for their blunder. The people who promised that the writers would get WGA jurisdiction fully intended to deliver and believed they could deliver. Oops.
Most importantly, these writers took a stand and got a fair deal. They jeopardized their employment in a horrible climate for scripted programming to do so. No reason to attack them. They’re not scabs. They’re just writers that got caught in a bad situation that was not of their making.
You’re right about the strike. The WGA did have to give up on animation and reality to get it settled sooner rather than later. But it doesn’t matter why they took animation off the table – they took it off the table. So they can’t have their cake and eat it too.
There is no crazy plot going on here to strip down the WGA. Sony offered all they did to the writers to try to make right for their mistake. That’s it. No cloak and dagger.
best,
GL
I have heard that some of the nine SDSU who took the deal are reconsidering now. People were surprised Oakley didn’t go back and this has apparently been persuasive. I’d be surprised if this show actually ever airs on Fox at all, from what I’m hearing.
Mitch-Switch,
I’ll keep it simple:
The Tannenbaums and/or Mitch CAN’T demand that Fox take over the show. Sony OWNS it. The Tannenbaums have an overall with Sony. Mitch can’t just take his ball and leave. Fox cannot take over the show, especially forcibly. Sorry.
Grocery List is right. One of the things that the SDSU writers asked for as a part of this negotiation was that all future Sony primetime animated shows be covered by the WGA, and that’s what Sony has promised. Now whether they’ll stand by that remains to be seen, but in the meantime, this is a victory for the guild, and they should be thanking these writers instead of demonizing them.
And something else to remember: it’s very easy to go out on strike when everybody’s doing it, when you can network on the picket lines, and rally with Jessie Jackson, and CAA’s handing you churros. When you don’t have to make the decision for yourself whether to walk out and when and if to go back because you’re just doing what your showrunner and your guild are doing. When you’re not worried about being sued. But when it’s you and a handful of others, and you’re being given conflicting information and your EPs are making different choices, it becomes a lot less clear which path to take. This was a brave stand that these nine writers took, at great risk to both their personal and professional lives, and none of their decisions were arrived at easily.
@ Anon. Observer – “Grocery List is right. One of the things SDSU writers asked for as part of this negotiation was that all future Sony animated shows be covered by WGA and that’s what Sony has promised.”
No they didn’t. Read the writers press release. It clear says, “…future writers of this show.” Not all Sony shows. C’mon. Don’t be naive.
MITCH-SWITCH – FOX can’t just take over a show it doesn’t own. If that were the case a network would take over every successful show on its network to get 100% of the syndication. Sony owns the show. Period. It is their relationship with IATSE that’s on the line. The WGA never stepped in because they knew they have no legal ground. Also, the 200k is not a bribe. It’s a vehicle to give these writers WGA P&H.
GET A CLUE – Where to begin? Your vitriolic-laced tirade indicates to me you’re not inclined to listen to reason or at least keep your mind open enough to have an honest debate. But, here goes…
When I said this is strictly IATSE territory when it comes to Sony Adelaide that’s what I meant. If it weren’t, the WGA would have shut this down a long time ago. TAG is the one with the famously inept leadership?!? All WGA members should be careful about throwing that stone.
As for the other IATSE contracts, you miss the point. Sony and FOX are not only concerned with a lawsuit they couldn’t win, but also opening a can of worms with all their other shows for all other IATSE unions. If they screwed IATSE on one show why wouldn’t they screw IATSE on their other shows, too? At least that would be the view from IATSE. This would cause IATSE to examine every action with every IATSE guild on every other Sony show. Are they skirting the rules on camera’s hours, crew NDBs, meal penalties? I’m sure you haven’t thought past your own egocentric concerns, but these are real issues for a studio. That’s why Sony had to honor their contract with TAG. Not only for legitimate legal reasons, but also to show they are acting in good faith. If Sony starts to pick and choose when it decides to honor terms of a contract all other unions will hold their feet to the fire in every other aspect of this business and make it nearly impossible to get any work done efficiently.
I actually do understand the business very well. Perhaps you haven’t worked enough to experience the “yes man” mentality of most creative execs trying to keep everyone happy. They promise the world (and think they can deliver) to keep everything moving forward in the hopes they get to the finish line where a show will actually get picked up. This works 99% of the time. Most promises are delivered with a blind eye by the legal department or a wink and a nod from accounting, but this one was too big. In the contentious nature of the current production era (caused by the likes of your blind anger from both sides) they ran into an issue that couldn’t be swept under the rug or ignored. I beg to differ when you say that if a creative says something it is the same as if business affairs were to say it. Here’s the difference: business affairs checks contracts and puts it in writing. Creative ignores the details and hopes to get the paperwork in order after it’s all said and done. If Sony were legally bound by a creative exec saying the show would be switched to WGA the show would be switched to WGA.
Why would I blame the WGA leadership for putting them in this position? Are you serious? These writers are in this position because the WGA leadership cut animation loose in the midst of being hammered during the strike. Had the WGA followed through on their promises to cover these positions this would be a non-issue. All animated shows would be WGA, but they are not. Again, because the WGA did not care enough to organize them.
You make my perfect argument as to why these writers did the right thing. First you insult them by saying they wish they were real writers. If they were not real writers why would you want them in the WGA? Then you go on to call me delusional if I thought screenwriters and showrunners were going to give up months of pay to help a few animation writers. EXACTLY! What did you think would happen? If the WGA is won’t help them they had to help themselves.
You sum up your enlightened arguments by stating that TAG will continue to splinter and lose jurisdiction bit by bit to the WGA. That would be a good point if it weren’t so stupid. You do realize WGA lost ground here, don’t you? I assume you do that and that’s the reason for all your anger. Your anger is blinding your reason, if you have any.
Dear Um… No,
That wasn’t in the press release, but it happened. It’s only verbal, but it happened. Here’s the thing , Sony doesn’t want to go through this again, it wanted the SDSU writers to be WGA they just couldn’t pull it off since they screwed up in the beginning. But, in the foreseeable future if they produce any more primetime animation it will be WGA. At least under the current regime, whom I consider to be pretty honorable in the Studio world. Though, if things don’t pick up a little steam in development, with their scripted production slate consistently being a tad weak, maybe that won’t be that long. We’ll see.
If you haven’t written for a Sony show, I understand the skepticism. If you have, I think you find they definitely compare favorably to most other studios. Write a show at Disney. Then write on one at Sony. There’s a big difference. Less notes, less interference, more food, more Starbucks, better pay, better credits. That’s my experience. Can’t speak for everyone.
wga writer: “I’m proud of all of them for fighting. Even the 2 that held out for WGA.”
That’s tolerant of you, wga writer but I think your pride’s misplaced. Do you realize how much damage those two holdouts did? Remember, they actually FAILED TO GIVE IN to Sony’s lies, threats, and bribes. Sure, the other 9 were willing to stand up and say “no — disobeying the wishes of a huge corporation is wrong, and we will not continue to do so no matter how much money they throw at us”. But those two holdouts are still out there somewhere endangering Sony’s bottom line. Are you really okay with a legal system that actually gives writers (or any artists, for that matter) the ability to threaten the business models of not just Sony but every other multinational media conglomerate — SIMPLY BY REFUSING TO ACCEPT THEIR OFFERS? Is that the kind of world you want to live in? Not me, pal.
Get a Clue,
The WGA does not have JURISDICTION over primetime animation. If it did, there would be no issue here. The organizing aspect should be in preventing future Sony primetime animation from falling under TAG. That at least appears to have been achieved. Kudos to all the writers who stayed out, and Kudos to the writers who made the deal to return.
Futhermore, Creative Execs and Business execs ARE distinctly different entities with different power and knowledge. The Creative Executives are not attorneys (usually) nor are they well versed in labor relations. It’s not their job. Should they have consulted business affairs or labor relations or the Production Executives before they made that promise? Absolutely. But that’s usually not how things happen. Both with the Creative Execs AND Executive Producers. The lawyers, esp. Labor Relations, always seem to get contacted AFTER the shit hits the fan. They tend to spend most of their employment fixing mistakes, since they’re not provided the opportunity to prevent them.
If you are an upper level writer and have worked at a studio on a series, you must have encountered this before. How many times does a show get a call from Labor Relations or Legal asking the Exec. Producer why they did something without consulting them and opening the studio up to a lawsuit or grievance? I insisted on using my best friend’s name in a script and some ridiculous viewer called and threatened to sue? Wow, wasn’t expecting that. I really have a friend with that name. Never thought it could be a problem. I used “Kleenex” instead of “Tissue” in the script, even though clearance said I couldn’t but I was sure it wouldn’t be an issue, Kleenex is funnier and I didn’t say anything bad about Kleenex so what’s the big deal, but now Kleenex wants 25g because it’s trademarked? Crazy! That happens. What, I used a clip that ran 4 seconds too long to be considered a clip because I didn’t know the rules and didn’t tell anyone and now everyone in said clip and the director and writer need to be paid AND credited? But it already aired and now the unions are freaking out and Labor Relations call ME and ream my ass. How was I to know? Nobody TOLD me. Sure, didn’t call them to ask, but that was because I didn’t know that I needed to. I use clips all the time. Who knew that that extra 4 seconds was such a big deal? If you’re lucky, you had a producer that caught all that and stopped it, if you let them, but stuff squeaks by. I’ve seen it happen over and over, then suddenly the studio is in the middle of a lawsuit. Oops, nobody wanted that, it just happened. You learn your lessons from your mistakes and you don’t repeat them.
All this stuff happens because the Creatives handle Creative issues and the Legal People handle the Legal aspects. But sometimes the communication between the entities fails. It just happens. The scope of the ramifications of that failure differs in each situation.
I think the deplorable behavior of the AMPTP has made everybody very skeptical. It would have to. How could it not? But this is not the AMPTP overlords are trying to steal from the guilds. It is a singular situation, not deceptive tactics and machinations of Steve, Jamie and Zach to overthrow the guild. Their minds just don’t work that way. They deal in relationships. They’re not COO’s or CFO’s. You’re not dealing with Moonves here. Sony cannot afford to disenfranchise the talent pool. They’re suppliers, not buyers. They didn’t try to bribe the writers back to work with money, they tried to compensate creatively for the lesser IATSE contract that they are bound to enforce. If you have a better, workable solution to their problem that would attain WGA jurisdiction without engaging in a lawsuit, I’m sure they would love to hear it, as would I. Because I can’t find one.
And, as Get Real said: what if the shoe was on the other foot? What if IATSE was trying to take over jurisdiction on a WGA show? The pilot was shot WGA and they wanted the series to be IATSE, even though it was WGA turf, and the studio blew off the WGA contract and went with IATSE? Would WGA sue? Damn right, they would. Here’s another fact. Studios generally don’t go into lawsuits, even if they can win, unless the stakes are huge. They’re still businessmen, after all.