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The Screen Actors Guild's National TV/Theatrical Negotiating Committee today passed the following advisory motion to the national governing board by an 11-to-2 vote. The employers' AMPTP statement is below. I will have an analysis containing a lot of new information as soon as possible:
“Whereas, Screen Actors Guild has been and remains willing and able to continue formal and continuous negotiations with the AMPTP and the employers, with the intention of reaching a mutually-acceptable deal; and
Whereas, the National Board has unanimously identified the core principles of new media jurisdiction and new media residuals as essential elements of any agreement in the Television/Theatrical contract negotiations; and
Whereas, preservation of longstanding force majeure protections for actors is of self-evident importance; and
Whereas, the President and Chief Negotiator have communicated this view to the AMPTP and the employers, and have requested that they return to the bargaining table to negotiate a fair deal; and
Whereas, the AMPTP and the employers have refused to change their position and have continued to refuse to meet to attempt to advance the negotiations; and
Whereas, in the opinion of the National Negotiating Committee, the AMPTP and the employers will only seriously engage in further negotiations after the members of the Guild express their confidence in their leadership by authorizing them to take all actions necessary to protect the interests of the membership, including a strike; and
Whereas, although the National Board has already unanimously delegated the authority to take a strike authorization vote to the National Negotiating Committee, in the opinion of the Committee, the strong and public support of the National Board for the necessity of a strike authorization at this time is a necessary prerequisite for its success;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the National Negotiating Committee that:
A strike authorization vote of the membership is necessary to overcome the employers’ intransigence, and the Committee therefore recommends that the National Board authorize such a vote be taken; and further recommends:
That the National Board adopt a resolution strongly supporting such an action, and recommending that the membership vote in favor of a strike authorization; and
That the National Board endorse an educational campaign advocating a “yes” membership vote, to give the authority to the National Board to call a strike only if the National Board deems it necessary and unavoidable to do so. “
Adopted: October 1, 2008
---
Big Media's Association of Motion Picture And Television Producers immediately issued this statement:
Is this really the time for anyone associated with the entertainment business to be talking about going on strike? Not only is the business suffering from recent economic conditions, but if ever there was a time when Americans wanted the diversions of movies and television, it is now. The DGA, WGA and AFTRA reached agreement on comparable terms months ago, during far better economic times, and it is unrealistic for SAG negotiators now to expect even better terms during this grim financial climate. This is the harsh economic reality, and no strike will change that reality.
- SAG National Negotiating Committee To Discuss AMPTP's Rejection This Week
- AMPTP Rejects Today's SAG Overture
- SAG Sends Letter To Chernin/Iger/Counter To Restart Formal Negotiations
- So What Do SAG Election Results Mean?
- SAG Election Results
- SAG Members Overwhelmingly Support Guild Leadership's Negotiation Strategy
- SAG Issues Special Bulletin & Polls Members About AMPTP Negotiations
- Finke/LA Weekly: Calm Down. SAG Will Not Be a WGA Strike Sequel
- Finke/LA Weekly: The Details the Moguls Don't Want You to Know
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Now SAG is negotiating.
That’s how you have to do it.
With both balls.
Good good good good. Good.
You’re kidding, right Nikki? The AMPTP is making more money now than it did prior to the WGA strike (and we got royally fucked in that deal).
I hated that strike, but it was necessary (even if it turned out all fucked up), and this one, should it actually happen, is also warranted.
For once, in this town, somebody is taking a stand for the right reasons, and, more importantly, they’re not backing down. Gotta love their moxie. I know I do.
Great. The economy is already in the tank and unemployment is going nowhere but up so SAG is going to strike and put a ton of Below the Line Crew and Behind the Camera stiffs out of work … possibly right before Christmas. For only a marginally better deal than one they would’ve got before.
I appreciate all of SAG’s support during the WGA strike, but you have to be smart about picking your battles. And this industry simply cannot afford another strike now. It doesn’t matter if they’re right on the issues. They have to make a deal and live to fight another day.
SAG has had every opportunity to accept a fair deal. The Writer’s got nowhere with a strike, no matter what they claim, and SAG now wants to sideline an entire industry because it think it deserves better than other people who create entertainment? “Taking a stand” will lead to pain for people who cannot afford it
No.
I love how the AMPTP keeps pointing to the other deals it concluded knowing full well that the DGA and AFTRA prostrated themselves before the glory of their idol, and the WGA was strong-armed into capitulation.
I also love how the AMPTP keeps singing a swan song about
New Media being too newthe economic downturn tying their hands. I suppose it doesn’t matter how ridiculous the narrative is so long as it provides some sort of excuse for avoiding a negotiating table, eh?What?! Who would authorize a strike right now?
AMEN! There is a WHOLE LOT of support for this move among SAG members, regardless of the current state of the economy. The state of the economy does not change what is “fair”….never has, and never will. We’ve had residuals as a central part of our income throughout many an economic downturn during many previous decades, and economic downturn or not – residuals will STAY as a part of our compensation going forward too.
I stand in support – along with what I believe will turn out to be a large majority of SAG members, of negotiating a fair and equitable contract.
There was a time where I could see both sides of this but the information SAG has made available regarding the importance of further negotiation and the record dollars the studios are currently earning and will continue to earn under the deals made with the DGA and WGA, points me in the direction of standing by the SAG leadership. And the other thing to consider as a member of any union is how much power you take away from your union leaders if you elect them to look after you and then undermine them at critical times like this. If you’re on the fence, you have to stand tall with your leaders – you have to support your union and stick by the leaders you’ve elected or else management in all industries will be more willing to try to weaken and embarass and destroy other unions just this way. If you are against what SAG is trying to get, you would still be doing your guild a disservice by voting against your leaders. Negotiations will continue if you authorize a strike. The Companies will just say they are taking a bullet on behalf of working Americans or some bs like that and say that for the sake of the economy, blah, blah, blah, they have come back to the table to make a deal. And don’t believe them when they say America needs entertainment and SAG members will be depriving Americans of entertainment if SAG strikes. What a load. Remember when the WGA was striking and the studios said it didn’t matter and they had plenty of movies and reality shows and whatnot in the can and ready? I think it’s time folks got realistic and thought about what it means to stick by your union leaders and stand for what is right and fair. Otherwise, the damage done will be felt for a long, long time.
- Once was neutral
The studios can afford what SAG is asking for, don’t let them fool you, their job is to make money. Whatever they have to giveaway they will find a new way to generate revenue to replace. That’s what they do. Working in Hollywood is inherently risky. Deal with it. I’ve been working in production for 15 years and I’ve got plenty of fallbacks and don’t live a lifestyle that can’t withstand 18 months of unemployment. Those are the terms of working in the business. These jobs are optional not mandatory. If you want job security go work in a funeral home or for the IRS.
Why do people always use the “marginally better” argument on one side? Why don’t they ever say that these corporations are willing to jeopardize everything for only “marginally better” terms? The “marginally better” argument, if followed, just leads to marginally worse terms and a little more marginally worse after that and even more marginally worse the time after that and so on and so on. I’m sorry you’re in the middle of it, and that’s why there are charity funds set up. The other side just lays you off and could give a flying f—.
Screw that crap, the economy is already in a bloody mess and SAG wants to strike to save EGO?
So you want to strike to mess up TV? You already lost viewers once, strike again NO ONE WILL COME BACK.
Who are the morons in charge? They want to strike when the economy is in a recession? WTH YES let’s strike because we can and we want to show the big bad tv executives what were made of.
*headdesk*
No one cares about SAG. Think of others not yourselves.
Selfish a-holes.
Selfish, selfish actions. The town’s patience will be very limited this time around.
Other people on this town have bills to pay. And we’ve already gone to bat for others once this year…
what a joke!
i hope they go on strike. they’ll merely paint themselves as further idiots.
Why are some on this thread calling the actors selfish? No one wants to see any BTL crew members put out of work, but the actors need to do what’s right for them. They’re getting screwed and they’re considering drawing a line in the sand. Good for them. Everyone supports a labor movement until it’s someone ELSE’s union going on strike. Bullshit.
And Ted, if you don’t think the writers made significant gains in the strike, compare the AMPTP’s initial offer to what the writers came away with: HUGE gains. Check the facts, amigo.
GOODFORSAG,
You are completely correct! This is an inherently risky business prone to labor strife. Deal with it or get out. The AMPTP is a massive anti-trust violation and it still blows my mind that no one seems to be challenging them on this. The car makers do not negotiate together with their unions cause it is massively illegal. Why is no one beating this drum?? So bizarre- it’s a no brainer.
FlyBy
Hey ‘enough’, you can argue that the studios should negotiate to save the people and economy impacted by a strike. I once questioned what was happening just like you but then I read up about it and saw that SAG has a legit concern here that can be addressed and then all this can be avoided. And regarding your anger at the issue, there are two forces at odds here. It’s not just SAG insisting on going down this road. Look at the deal points and what’s being offered – it’s really ugly. So, have a look and consider calling the corporations out on this rather than pointing your anger and the little guy.
- Once was Neutral.
So I guess, logically, the studios are saying that if the economy were good they would be more than happy to open the coffers and make a fair deal.
Anybody believe that?
All the puppets cry when anyone speaks out against Big Business or asks for a decent deal. “Take what you’re given and be happy for that much.”
You who speak that way are cowards. Luckily you benefit from those who are not cowards and have worked for years in UNIONS to get you the 40 hour work week, Overtime Pay, Health Benefits, a Living Wage and everything else you take for granted while kissing Big Business’s ass thanking them for their generosity–Even as Bush hands over $700 billion to Big Business while your house is in foreclosure.
It’s a rigged game people! And it’s rigged against you. Remember that when you choose sides.
THINK people. THINK! THINK! THINK! THINK! THINK!
STEEEEEEERIKE!!!!
It’s not for fun it’s for survival.
For Chrissake! THINK!!!!!!
what good is having a union if you don’t us it to stick it to the big corporations. I’ve lost work because of the negotiations and I never blamed SAG. It’s the pig headed suits who have gotten away with so much this year.
Let’s bloody their nose!
Already, I’m having to move, can barely afford gas and food, savings is gone… but this is what having a union is about- hard negotiations, in harder times, so we can all prosper down the road.
Stand up, stand together, and stand strong!
Hey Flyby…
Check it out…
Car manufacturers do negotiate together… It’s called a multiple employer unit. just like this industry.
Which isn’t that risky, if you play it right.
Once was Neutral- Look the point I am trying to make here, Now is not the time to strike. This is not the year to strike. The economy is already suffering, did anyone not see Monday’s stocks fall?
To put people out of work before Christmas again isn’t right either. Especially with the already suffering economy, that doesn’t look like it will get better. Hollywood can not afford another strike. SAG is the only one to stop this.
What SAG needs to do is suck it up and take the deal for now, and try again later. SAG will be more respected, because they avoided the strike. JMO
Sag and Mike Ovitz have something in common. They both love Japanese tactics. Now, Sag is a believer in Hari-Kari.
It isn’t selfish to demand a fair deal. And SAG has repeatedly made it clear that they are willing to negotiate. It’s the AMPTP that refuses to even sit at a bargaining table.
“Enough”, you may not care about SAG but I do. And I’m not a SAG member. But I’ve seen what happens when union members fail to stand up for themselves, and take lousy deal after lousy deal. A little bit less every bargaining cycle, until there’s nothing left. And the promised payoff down the road never materializes.
If you think the studios can’t easily afford what SAG is asking for, I suggest you Google “Chernin” and “Hulu” and read some of the quotes that pop up. Eye opening.
Not that it matters. The studios don’t have to be rational or honest. They don’t have to do anything at all, except sit back and watch people like you do their work for them. Blame SAG. And why don’t you spit shine Nick Counter’s car while you’re at it.
Who would authorize a strike now?
I would.
And for you BT liners, I don’t really give a shit. I learned during the writers strike you only care about yourselves. So, we should only care about ourselves.
Why don’t SAG members just go out and give flyers to the crews and support staff — along with the employees of entertainment-industry small businesses too numerous to mention — on how to apply for unemployment and file for bankruptcy? It sure would save a lot of time later. And with the credit crunch, it’s assured none of them will get loans, so there should be lots of open office space for acting workshops to keep SAG members busy during their downtime — that is, unless they’re the 80 percent that wasn’t working anyway.
May as well strike now, because production is going to drop regardless as a result of the credit collapse and many will be out of work anyway.
Put the grapefruit in their face!!!! It is up to the actors!!!! The others are cowards!!!
SAG is a moronic union.
Change leadership now.
They will *never* get a 75 percent authorization in this diastrous economy. Never. Things were far different last November. This isn’t the time to strike. It’s time to live to fight another day.
Finally. It’s all been tedious, annoying bullshit. Till now. For the producers, here’s what this is about: “50 billion is better than 47.” That’s it. That’s their entire beef. There’s not a single thing SAG is asking for they can’t afford and they know it. They just won’t give it to us, unless we make them. It’s all about money – they have absolutely zero interest in middle class actors suffering under this contract. They could give a rat’s ass. So now SAG actors have the chance to tell all the people who have weighed in on this process what matters – the only thing that has ever mattered in spite of all the conjecture, rhetoric, anger, and threats: what WE want to do. We can allow ourselves to be treated like cows: milk, milk, milk you for what you’re worth, then Javier Bardem is at the end of the shute they walk us through with that airgun and the oxygen tank, and it’s BLAM! Goodnight Bessie. And off the the meat factory. We have the chance now to tell the producers what we think of their offer, and we have the chance to tell those whose knees are shaking at the thought of strike, that everybody is scared, but it’s the only way we’ll even get their attention, let alone their respect and a decent deal. Remember: the AMPTP has been banking, all along, on our inability to stand together, our constant need to fight amongst ourselves, our second guessing every single move our leadership makes, this group, and every group we’ve had before them. You want a fair shot at a decent living in the internet age? You’re gonna have to fight for it.
You know, this may be the best thing for the below-the-liners and local businesses. Right now, how many crew people are working? And of those that are working, how many IATSE members are working at scale, regardless of their deal precedents?
There is no end in sight to the de facto strike, the producers know people are hungry and are willing to work for union minimums, and the studios are pleading poverty on tons of expenditures — money that should be in the hands of those local businesses.
If a strike ends the stalemate, I say go for it.
Not only do I hate SAG for pulling this crap, but I hate the WGA all over again. Nice job going early and not waiting for SAG – now we get two strikes. Maybe some more writer deals (whatever ones are left) will get canceled.
On the bright side, when they fail to get 75%, SAG will collapse.
But ‘Enough’ what I’m saying is rather than suggesting SAG ’suck it up’ and take the deal for now and come back another day to work on bettering it, why don’t you instead suggest the studios come back to the table and discuss and negotiate this deal further? SAG feels strongly about their position and they probably realize that it’ll be even more difficult to make changes to this arrangement once it’s done and signed. They know that now is the time for them to work on this and get changes made. If you look at what SAG is trying to correct in this deal, it’s clear that it’s the studios who are not being reasonable. I wasn’t seeing the point to this situation until I did that reading and saw it myself. The studios really are forcing SAG to stand up for the actors they represent in these matters. It’s the studios you should come down on here, in my opinion.
I hope SAG members realize how important it is to get behind their elected leaders now. This is an important moment for the union and its members. And if they fail in this effort, it’ll be horrible for them and the members as they will be weakened for good if they lose this one. That’s the newest reason I’m supporting this union on this.
- Once was neutral
W. Bush,
You are right- I checked it out regarding multiple employer unit. I guess this goes to my ultimate cause which is the creative unions will have no power unless they all negotiate together. The idea that actors, writers and directors have different “needs” and need different unions is why they all get a bad deal. It’s such stupid backwards thinking. They all want the same basic things and until they all walk out together they’ll never get anything.
FlyBy
Is this one of the all-time stupidest lines??? “..if ever there was a time when Americans wanted the diversions of movies and television, it is now.”
It’s time to do this. Historically, when the depression hit, everyone turned to escapism in movies. We will never as a union be stronger than now. I agree that there is an evil inherent in the timing, but the alternate is to assume the position of weakness. In crisis is opportunity. Why do you think all the fat warren buffet cats are buying up all the stocks right now? Get real.
The studios could end this tomorrow and not even flinch. Some of these guys (let’s face it, they are guys) get individual bonuses that are well in excess of the amount of money it would cost the industry to resolve this.
They foreclosed on my house…My 401-k is in the tank…and now, worst of all, SAG wants to take away the lame TV shows and shitty movies that I have a Constitutional right to waste my time watching!!!!!
Is the AMPTP seriously trying to make SAG look unpatriotic for striking when Americans need entertainment?
Are they seriously saying this is a bad economy and then making a case that entertainment will do even better because Americans go to entertainment in times of economic hardship, yet still they can’t afford to pay us?
Are they seriously forgetting that SAG JUST tried to sit down at the negotiating table, and they said, “No thanks – we don’t negotiate, we just make final offers”?
Here’s an idea – get back to the table, AMPTP, and understand that actors don’t want to see any hope of a livelihood disappear as you insist on nonunion provisions and freebie windows and try to get rid of residuals and put in free advertising in the form of product placement and free clip usage to cut together our work into whatever money grubbing way that you wish! Negotiate with us ACTORS and not with some cookie cutter deal that doesn’t address any of our concerns but screws us into the ground because it is our FACES that the public sees, and that doesn’t make us any better than other creatives as you like to imply we think we are for saying no, but it DOES make us VERY DIFFERENT!
And don’t anybody say the AMPTP has negotiated a deal with and for actors yet – they made a handshake deal with a sad sack union claiming to represent actors even as it sells them out to keep its finances afloat and attempts to stay relevant.
And BTL people – don’t be mad at SAG, be mad at the AMPTP. SAG is just fighting for decent livable wages. Start looking into some of the other areas you can transfer your skills to now, because the entertainment biz is up and down, and sorry the timing doesn’t work for you, but this is OUR WHOLE FUTURE we are fighting for. And if you think we should take the deal, I find it hard to believe you guys are seriously going to be into even the “French hours” when they bring that to your door…
Nobody WANTS a strike, but when the AMPTP refuses to talk or budge, why should Actors have to put a gun to our own heads and pull the trigger to make everyone else in this town happy. Try supporting us other creatives and BTL, and maybe that solidarity would be enough to make the AMPTP actually play, because to ask them to play fair would just be too much.
Something has been overlooked here.
I believe the AMPTP has just made a lasting contribution to American literature.
Sometimes, in the rush to put out a simple press release, words may be strung together in a way that could only be divinely inspired.
In my opinion, this AMPTP-crafted line is immortal. It captures the deep empathy which the studios and networks feel for the American people.
I break it up, to emphasize the pure poetry of it, but these are the exact words:
“NOT ONLY IS THE BUSINESS
S U F F E R I N G
FROM RECENT ECONOMIC CONDITIONS,
BUT
IF EVER THERE WAS A TIME
WHEN AMERICANS WANTED THE DIVERSIONS
OF MOVIES
AND TELEVISION,
IT
IS
NOW.”
*******************************
In the face of that raw, naked feeling and that simple, soaring eloquence,
WHO
COULD VOTE
TO STRIKE?
FROM S.A.G WEBSITE
http://www.sag.org/sag-timeline
1933
* March 4: Franklin Delano Roosevelt begins first term as President and declares “Bank Holiday”, closing all banks for several days.
* March 7: Producers Association announces temporary salary cuts of 50% for studio employees-including actors. Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences soon proposes sliding scale of cuts.
* Six actors [Berton Churchill, Grant Mitchell, Ralph Morgan (all three members of Actors’ Equity Council), Charles Miller (Actors’
Equity’s West Coast representative, Kenneth Thomson and his wife Alden
Gay) meet in the Thomsons’ Hollywood hills home to discuss formation of self-governing organization of film actors-membership would be open to all, as opposed to the “by invitation only” membership of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences.
* Roosevelt’s National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) passed June 16, creating the National Recovery Administration (NRA).
* June 30: SAG Articles of Incorporation filed. 21 actors become the Guild’s first officers and Board of Directors, with Ralph Morgan as President.
* Actor Ivan Simpson gives the Guild a motto: “He best serves himself who serves others.”
* Protests against provisions in NRA’s proposed Motion Picture Code of Fair Competition result in mass exodus of stars from the Academy in October.
* All officers, including President Ralph Morgan, and 2/3 of the SAG Board of Directors resign to allow bigger stars with “clout” to take as many Board seats as they will — Morgan yields SAG presidency to Eddie Cantor, one of the most popular theatre, film and radio stars in the country.
* FDR suspends objectionable provisions of this Code after persuasive visit from Cantor, who knows Roosevelt well.
* Screen Actors Guild agrees to admit extras as members, but they will not be “voting members”, primarily because the Guild believes their greater numbers would give them too much control over Guild matters.
* First SAG newsletter, Screen Actors’ News issued.
* Geo. Raft, Warner Oland, Fredric March, Adolph Menjou, J. Cagney, Groucho Marx join Guild
* July 10, 1933 – group application signed by 17 SAG founders
* Mar. 8, 1933: the “50% cut”- catalyst for forming the Guild
* NRA Code of Fair Competition for the Motion Picture Industry
Inserted by ff:
1935 (WAITING FOR LEFTY is a 1935 play by American playwright, Clifford Odets. Consisting of a series of related vignettes, the entire play is framed by the meeting of cab drivers who are planning a labor strike. The framing situation effectively utilizes the audience as part of the meeting.
While this was not the first play written by Odets, this was the first of his plays to be produced. It was staged by the Group Theatre, a New York theatre company founded by Harold Clurman, Cheryl Crawford and Lee Strasberg, of which Odets was a member. The company was founded as a training ground for actors, and also to support new plays, especially those that provided social and political commentary.)
1937
* Negotiating Committee: Robert Montgomery, Aubrey Blair, Franchot Tone, Kenneth Thomson, and Guild attorney Laurence W. Beilenson
* Screen Actors Guild recognized May 9 after thousands of stars, contract players and extras vote 96% to strike at midnight, May 10, if Guild not recognized.
* Willie Bioff, the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employes (IATSE) “Hollywood Representative” encourages movie moguls Louis B. Mayer and Joseph Schenck to accept Guild demands
* President Montgomery declares Guild recognition “the victory of an ideal.”Thirteen producers sign first SAG Contract, pay minimum $25 per day; $35 for stunts, $5.50 for extras, and portions of the 1935 contract of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences become part of the new SAG contract
* SAG opens New York office June 21
* American Federation of Radio Artists (AFRA) founded with Eddie Cantor as first president
* August: IATSE’s Bioff puts pressure on President Montgomery to reinstate a suspended Guild member, Montgomery refuses, Bioff threatens him
* September: Bioff announces IATSE intends to take over jurisdiction of all motion picture workers (including actors), and demands producers place IA “logo” on all motion pictures
* Interim Labor Committee launches investigation of IATSE, Robert Montgomery testifies for the Guild.
* 1937: Montgomery, Blair, Tone, Thomson announce Guild recognition
* 1937: Schenck/Mayer letter recognizing Screen Actors Guild
The public will be cheering on the Actors? I went to college in the Midwest and I can’t see how those people will agree that a strike is a positive thing.
Actors are the visible face of the industry and people believe they are overpaid as it is. You’re talking about the middle class actor like everyday fans care about them anyway.
It’s the stars that drive this business [in acting, writing, directing, producing]. Always have, always will be.
Batter up, AMPTP!
Here comes the pitch…
Wait for it….
Swung on and missed! Steeeeeeeeee-RIKE!
First of all, no one can really predict the economy right now. Most analysts think that the market oversold last week in a panic. If the bailout passes I think there will be a correction. We will then see if the bill actually is any good, there should be some indication right away. If the bill doesn’t pass it will get worse before it gets better. I don’t think a call for a strike comes before that shakes out either way.
In the mean time it’s a high stakes game of chicken. SAG’s been working without a contract since June. AMPTP made a final offer and walked away. I think any reasonable person can accept SAG’s been patient. I think if anything this will force the gov’t to intervene and mediate which they are more likely to do now because of this move versus if they would have done it any other time.
I will vote in favor of the strike authorization.
To our brothers and sisters in the other creative guilds and the BTL unions – yes, we’re going to ask for your support during uncertain economic times. SAG walked side-by-side with the WGA, and when it comes time for IATSE, or the Teamsters, or the other locals, we will walk with you as well.
During the WGA strike, every story I heard about a Teamster-driven truck refusing to cross a picket onto a studio lot brought a smile to my face; not because I enjoy disrupting commerce, but because I knew every truck that turned away took us one step closer to a better contract for the writers.
Our strength as labor rests in our solidarity. Each within our own union, to be sure, but with our fellows as well. When it comes to contracts, to respect, to our future viability as a labor movement, if we do not hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately.
A stronger contract for SAG means a higher bar for the other creative guilds, and for other unions as well. This is true not only for wages and benefits, but working conditions as well.
We must recognize the importance of sharing short-term pain for long-term gain. Make no mistake – it is the AMPTP that has forced us to this place, forced us to call for a strike authorization by their complete intransigence, their total lack of reason or compassion. They have proven again, as they had shown the writers, that they respect nothing but a real show of strength.
The AMPTP has done everything in its power to dishearten us. Their shills are even out in full force tonight in this comment section. Nothing they have said or done, however, could blind us to the evils of their so-called last best final offer. We polled ourselves, and we reconfirmed what our elected leadership already knew – the membership would resoundingly reject the AMPTP’s so-called last best final offer.
It is time now for SAG to demonstrate clearly its resolve.
“The AMPTP is making more money now than it did prior to the WGA strike”??? “The studios can afford what SAG is asking for”?? “Let’s bloody their nose!”???
what planet are you people from?
are you too busy watching tmz to notice that media stocks are down across the board?
banks are frozen which means that there won’t be any completion bonds for the majors or small business loans for the independents.
costs are up all around, from locations, to fuel to above the line talent riders that are eating up larger and larger chunks of the budget.
want more money? put fee caps on sag a-listers and scale back their ridiculous contract stipulations to leave a little bigger piece of the pie for the rest of us.
no one else in the world would someone get $130 a day for doing the same amount of work as a background player or $759 a day for the work of a featured performer.
you’ve got to admit we’re all pretty well compensated here no mater how you look at it. its not exactly rocket science and you’re not lugging around heavy objects all day like the grips or working 18 hours a day like the teamsters.
it’s like everything else in america. manufacturers are being crippled by their payroll to the point that its cheaper to build it china and ship it over.
romanian effects houses, jordanian tax credits, russian extras….the world’s getting smaller every day and holding out for a couple extra perks that makes us that much less competitive will only speed up the inevitable and soon only the above the line will have a job and the rest of us will all be out of work.
You’re about to witness a coalition of SAG members rise up and denounce this foolish and irresponsible behavior! If the negotiating committee thinks nobody’s watching they have made a gross miscalculation. Perhaps membership remained silent while ‘leadership’ flittered away $100,000.00 of our money to determine if they should keep negotiating this folly, but silence now will lead to the edge of the abyss, because of shear stupidity and a lack of negotiating skills. Why should we pay the price for that? Strike for failed leadership because they don’t have the decency to say, “we fucked up, and we now recommend the deal on the table?” Step up…stop blaming AFTRA for your failure. They got their deal while SAG whined their elitist whine. There is more at stake here than your new media bullshit. Start taking food out of people’s mouths and money out of their pockets in the midst of what this nation is facing and you’re asking for trouble you don’t even know exists. I walked a lot of picket lines in my day…this one better provide bullet-proof vests.
No. And don’t expect solidarity from anyone in this town.
Death of a Guild, or at least its current leadership cartel. Can’t imagine the members voing to strike unless they are subjected to more extreme coercion by the board. This was your plan all along Allen?
This isn’t the 1930s.
I just love the parade of out of work actors and out of work writers who show up to root us on towards a strike. Felt like you were part of the industry again when you were out on that line, didn’t you?
A pox on you.
Another TV season cut short, will bring us even more lame reality shows. And then next season less of you will be working for slightly more money and lower ratings.
That sounds like a great plan. Let me know how that goes for you.
I understand this could be a negotiating tactic, I agree with what SAG is asking for, but if SAG strikes right now in this economy, guys I have to tell you again that will be the DUMBEST move in the history of this business. You really want the entertainment business to grind to a halt again? Because I have to tell you, there will be LESS acting jobs when you return from a strike. LESS. 100%. It’s a dumb move. Don’t do it now. Get what you can out of these negotiations and save the other issues for next time. I will look at actors with distain if they strike now. Even more jobs will be lost in this business and people who aren’t even tied to SAG could lose their homes in an already volatile economy. Please guys: I’m with your core issues but sometimes yah gotta know when not to play ball, or not.
The iron was hot for this about 6 months ago. Now it barely makes the third column at the Drudge page.
Our train left the station. How could that happen, again?
I guess the next scheduled trip is in 3 years?
This is disgusting. I work behind the scenes in the industry and my job security is directly affected by selfish actions such as this. Actors, do you not understand how grossly overpaid your position in the industry already is? I get up and work 50-60 hours a week and barely make in a week what you make in a day at SAG theatrical scale, or SAG commercial scale. How DARE you, in such a precarious time in the economy, complain that you are still not making enough money. Try sitting at my desk for a day. I know you work hard but I work hard too and my schedule is much more demanding than 75% of the actors out there (and that’s probably being conservative with the number). I understand that 90% of SAG members don’t make enough money through their acting for this to matter, and that’s why it’s easy to say, “hear, hear! Let’s strike!” But, contrary to your belief, you are not the ONLY people suffering in this industry. Do you see agents, managers, PA’s, publicists, etc striking despite the low wages and long hours they work? No. Try to learn from their example.
Flyby,
Yessir, until all the unions/guild can get their contract cycles synced again, this town will continune on it’s downward spiral- at least for those physically making the movies/tv/webisodes.
All this “damn the torpedos” talk is misguided, tantamount to tilting at windmills. No matter how powerful any individual guild/union thinks it is… it’s no match for the global diversity of the AMPTP’s parents, at least, on it’s own. From a tactial POV, the WGA pretty much botched any possibilty of SAG getting a better contract, this time round- and no, not the DGA, the WGA, they set the table.
Striking now would serve as further proof that you people are completely out of touch with real America. People are going to be holding on to their money because they’re worried about losing their jobs and their retirement accounts. Your industry is already in decline and will go through the same downturn, recession, depression as the rest of the country. Wake up! And if want to revitalize your industry, then stop catering exclusively to the left in this country. Half of America either can no longer stand to go to the movies because of the constant ridiculing and bashing of their views, or is heading in that direction. You people are the only industry stupid enough to alienate half of your prospective customers! Then you all stand around wondering why you can’t make enough money and much of your work doesn’t make a profit. The sooner you remove yourself from the idiotic notion that you are an artist and activist, and start looking at your work as a businessman, the sooner you can start making money again. My wife and I used to go to movies nearly every week. For a few years now, we’ve gone to about 1 per year. And only then because it doesn’t star some idiot activist like Michael Moore, and it doesn’t carry some political message. We are middle class America. I have a lot more to say, but quite frankly I don’t think its worth the effort. Since I’m obviously conservative, my views will immediately discounted and ridiculed. So why bother? And why should I bother going to a movie?
Go ahead and strike……..its the Democrat way…
My family does not go to the Movies anyway…we do
not support ranting Liberals.
Most movie stars are in need of Shrinks anyway.
A strike will teaches those bastards a lesson!
a lesson on how to shoot in other countries
a lesson in how to shoot using non-union actors
a lesson in how to produce more non-scripted, non-acted reality shows
I’m off to the golf course…to take a lesson!
Okay, let’s assume that SAG is 100% right and that a strike is totally justified. It still won’t matter, not at this point in time. A SAG strike now will only cause a backlash of hatred towards actors and be one more giant nail in the coffin of countless wounded and bleeding industry workers. And while it may be a logical argument that a strike could have been easily avoided were it not for the faceless, evil AMPTP and their refusal to return to the bargaining table, they will never be blamed or hated by the masses for their actions but you will. Why? BECAUSE they’re faceless!
Strikes are all about public perception and who can wait it out the longest without looking like the villain. Even in the best of economic times actors are at a serious disadvantage because they are almost universally thought of as being a bunch of trivial, selfish, spoiled Diva’s that make far too much money as it is. It’s not true but like it or not, that IS the perception. On the other hand, the general public never sees or even thinks about the AMPTP! To them it appears as though you are fighting an invisible dragon that only YOU can see. And no one is going to care or feel sorry for you this go around.
So as King Solomon prepares to slice your infant in two I urge you to please think twice about striking, and to consider that certain quality that defines all successful actors… Timing. Then honestly ask yourself if the timing seems right for this strike.
It’s about time! SAG should have done this ALONG time ago. A LONG TIME AGO! Yes, the timing’s not the best, but that doesn’t mean we should rollover and take it!!! I’m behind the SAG LEADERS 300%. “If ever there was a time to be behind them…it’s now!”
Let these lame actors go on strike – who needs them? Hollywood has lost the ability to make movies American want to see anyway – it’s either kid stuff, or letist propaganda pieces posing as movies. Our family stopped going to the movies long ago, cut off the cable and threw out the television. The result? A jump in the kids grades, my wife and I lost over 20 pounds each because we are exercising more. We now read and talk to each other more instead of watching some idiot box. We know others who are considering doing the same.
So go on strike SAG – I hope you ruin the industry and yourselves in the process!
I quit watching television during the writers strike. I enjoyed the quiet so much I got rid of my TV. I have been thinking lately of buying a new TV but this has completely changed my mind. Good luck you losers.
At a time when all Americans are suffering the celebrity elite want to make sure they get the most money they can. Which raises ad costs, which then get passed to the consumer.
If we need to be entertained, we can go to the video store. Good luck with a strike. Americans with small businesses who can’t make payroll or buy supplies will care less about this issue. Maybe your local senator can write you into their bailout bill – hey if Oregon wooden arrow makers can get a tax break & $$, why not the actors.
Go on strike! We could care less – I hope it closes the industry, and Hollywood goes down the tubes, where it is headed anyway.
Hollywood and the networks have lost the ability to produce entertainment that people want to see – it’s all violent filth, leftist propaganda purporting to be “documentaries” or kid stuff. Who needs these people? Not us – we threw out the televisions seven years ago, and stopped going to the movies. The kids grades improved dramatically, my wife and I lost about 20 pounds, and we all drew much closer together since we were talking to each other.
So…REALLY want to improve your life? get rid of the TV, disconnect from the media and really start enjoying life – you’ll lose the ridiculous fears that the “entertainment” industry tries to promote in an effort to get you to watch “to see what happens.”
Won’t break my heart if the industry stops again, though I would feel bad for the people that work behind the scenes. Not so much for the people who play dress up and make believe and think they deserve to be fawned on, worshipped and paid exorbitantly for it.
Dave Clennon,
I will vote for a strike.
There, your question has been answered.
I have worked producing my own film and worked along the grips, makeup and craft service personnel for many years prior. I’m union and fully understand the need for a strong supporting body to maintain what all that before us has fought for. That being said I am very distressed these past years concerning this feeling of entitlement among many ATL individuals. ANY basic agreement should be in place as just that, a Basic Agreement. How about rethinking the concept if a talented artist, whether they are above or below the line, excels in his art so then becomes a valuable commodity and will garner more than the basic agreement alots. Oh, and this view of “we have the producers just where we want them” must be written by from some very content waiters waiting for the big break they obviously deserve.
I don’t think the nay sayers particularly disagree that SAG is being given an unfair offer. The strike scares us more because we don’t think the AMPTP, will move to act quickly. Because they know the longer they hold out and let a strike continue the more opinion starts to sway. I fear that they have no fear.
You’ve gotta be kidding me. With the way the economy is now, you want to authorize a strike? I’m part of the below the line brigade and I can assure you that none of us want a strike to happen and I’m not sure Los Angeles would be able to handle another strike.
So many comments about public perception. That’s not the point… it’s about leverage with the STUDIOS. We’re not trying to win hearts and minds in Middle America. This is a business, and the only reason there’s anyone at all entertaining you is because we’re being paid for it. Why should any of us allow our work to be shown over and over again without being paid? The studios are paid every time the shows are run, and all we’re asking for is a teensy part of that income. And BLT people… don’t get mad at the actors for fighting for a good deal. Get mad at your own union for selling you out.
Does anyone else see the irony that the AMPTP paid shills showed up late to this…uh…discussion?
Our economic slowdown/turmoil/recession is and was fueled by greed and we are now paying the price for it. It is 100% clear to me that SAG is not willing to give up their greedy ways for the better of an industry. Considering the lengthy and lingering effects from the current “financial crises”, SAG should really step back and look themselves in the mirror and realize they are doing nothing to help this industry out and acually making things worse for all while they try to look like they’re the victims. WGA & DGA both sucked it up and “took one for the team” and now it’s SAG’s turn to do what’s right and not about what is greedy. Considering that we will be in a econimic recession for the next couple years(not months, years) and the contract will only last 3 years, SAG is now being completely unrealistic in their demands. Plus if itunes ends up closing because they might have to pay out higher royalties, how will that effect the other sites who provide “new media” and will there even be as many if any sites to offer any “new media”? SAG should of taken the deal in July instead of playing these political b.s. games. We will all see that they will end up screwing themselves over by taking not as good of a deal when they settle, and rightfully so. I feel that if they do strike, they should only be offered half of everything so they can be held accountable for the repercusions of a strike. Again, now is not the time to be greedy. Didn’t any one ever tell you guys that good things come to those who wait?
SAG may as well go for broke since ratings are dropping, a great deal of the rest of the country couldn’t care less if Hollywood closed down for good, and the industry is viewed as not only greedy but completely out of touch with realty. Hay, when the ship’s going down may as well try to get as much as you can before you have to abandon her. And what a better time to strike when you may get laid off anyway–oh, hold it, that would mean your strike is a farce wouldn’t it?
Who gives a shit if the actors go on strike the writers are where the talent is. You can grab any 20 something homeless hollywood kid to fill in for these no talent hacks. Believe me if they do strike it wont last long because the line of scab actors willing to work will be as long as the california coast. Try and strike and see how many people in America even notice. Hah
Maybe the studio’s can produce a “Children Sing For SAG” video!!!
I hope the strike authorization vote takes place. Further, I hope that membership at large keeps in mind that an authorization to strike does -not- necessarily mean we will strike. It means simply that producers could no longer blithely dismiss the possibility that we would.
Producers will not negotiate (at least formally) period. They take absolutely nothing we say or do short of authorizing a strike seriously.
It’s time to do something that finally has a chance of bringing them to the table (authorizing a strike), and if that doesn’t work, to do with commitment and resolve “as long as it takes” to do the one thing that has a 100% chance of reopening discussions.
And if the strike authorization vote fails? Well, we’ll be working without a contract, and producers will adamantly still refuse to negotiate. We’d simply be back to where we are now.
But I hope to god that at least 75% of the membership gets that you cannot negotiate if the other side of the negotiating table is totally empty. That’s what it was, that’s what it is, and that’s what it will be if we don’t demonstrate to producers our resolve to actually do what is necessary.
Producers have forced our hand by ignoring everything but the one final tactic we have. So be it. “As long as it takes.”
I’ll be voting yes. And when my income drops to zero from currently making at least health & pension levels every year, so be it. It’s time to authorize the only thing producers will take seriously enough to bring them back to the table. When you don’t have a choice, don’t make one.
Below the line grunt – Nobody wants a strike. What the SAG folks want is to negotiate a deal that is more fair to them. Everyone’s upset about this situation but if you look at the points SAG is having trouble with, you’ll see that the studios are being pretty unresponsive to legit concerns. Rather than being upset and thinking that SAG wants to strike, try to view it as SAG feels they have been backed into this corner by the studios and have no other option because the studios are refusing to negotiate further. Maybe we should be angry that the studios are not giving a little more and ending this rather than being pissed that a union’s leaders are doing what they feel is necessary to protect the folks they represent.
- Once was Neutral
Has the SAG nominating committee been under a rock the past month or so? The whole economy is a mess, production is at a low, producers can sign an AFTRA deal if they want…a strike now is just STUPID. Take the deal and in three years, try again. Meanwhile get all the actors in one camp so you actually have some clout and lets get production ramped up so everyone can pay their bills.
Great negotiating strategy. But please don’t actually pull the trigger.
I work in accounting for budgeting phase, pre, production, and post. When budgeting for a movie and the ATL is already reaching 60mil(before production costs), every movie will now be 100m and up to make. As the ATL costs keep rising, more and more movies are going to not make money in the box office and take forever to make money back from dvd’s and other outlets(if ever). The studios and investors will be the ones losing the money while some actors will be guaranteed to take up upwards of 60m or more. I know of 3 “actors” off hand who are guaranteed 40m or more before they even shoot a shot. They studios should insist on a pay for performance deal. I don’t care what your name is or how many awards you have won(or bought), no one can say the deserve that ammount of money especially for the quality of the product once it comes out. If the movie is shit when it comes out, you(the talent) should suffer the consenquences of your awful “work” as well as everyone one else involved in the project. If the movie does awesome and mokes tons of money, then all involved should be rewarded for their work. What is so unrealistic about that? Is that too much common sence for people to handle in todays greedy, out for myself world? Why can’t the real workers(the btl) get rewarded for their hard work when a movie does well? If there is no btl, who is going to make the atl look good? The glass is half full, not half empty. And to anyone who says get my union to get a better deal, show me what my “union” does for me? It is better for accountants to be non-affiliate than to be part of our “union” becuase we get nothing except money OUT of our pocket for dues. We see what deals everyone else is getting while we get the worst deals(besides interns). Who is looking out for us? NOBODY! Why won’t DGA, SAG, or transpo let us into their union? If you truely don’t want the btl to not suffer and you claim unions work, well we’re waiting for a better deal ourself or to be part of a “union” that works for us.
Let us live to fight another date people!
Let us regroup, strengthen with unity and blast them a few years from now.
SAG leaders would love a scapegoat to blame, having not found one they want to go to war…SOUND FAMILIAR?????
I don’t think the AMPTP has “paid shills” here. I’m a BTL guy, and I will again repeat: How is it possible, in this long, messy year, that a group of people that “pretend” for a living, can’t “pretend” to show rock hard solidarity. Instead there has been this ridiculous public spectacle of dissension and, well, almost anarchy. The big media bosses, somehow, put their devious egos aside and formed a rock solid wall. The single most powerful union in Hollywood has squandered their power, and I don’t think it takes “paid shills” to help sow the seeds of panic. I lived through the ’80’s actor’s strike. It lasted over 5 months. People can argue about the eventual effectiveness of that job action, but I can assure you, SAG shut the town down. I think big media (they don’t deserve capital letters) has made a stand to destroy unions with this negotiation cycle. How the other guilds can allow NON UNION production, at *any* budget level, is beyond me. The IA, and SAG have low budge rates (I became SAG eligible for a one day, $265 part on a micro-budge feature shot during the Writer’s Strike. So I know that there is a mechanism for micro budgets (read internet)). What were Counter’s first words? “You guys will have to strike.” They want the will of this town broken. Imagine what blood and guts there will be when the IA contract comes up next year. Fellow IA people: enjoy your lifestyles now, because it’s going away, and soon.
So, while I strongly feel that SAG should fight for union representation at any budget level, this year, this time, they have not shown (or not pretended to show) the seamless solidarity necessary to beat down the opposition. In fact, I don’t think they could have gotten it any further wrong. Good luck.
My, my, my… Looks like the conservatives have again been directed (like so many sheep) to this board to share their random, unhinged political views about TV and a potential strike they know nothing about. And who are also missing the point, as usual.
To all SAG members: don’t buy into the AMPTP’s spin machine. Yes, keep an open mind but listen to your own leaders and trust that they know what they’re doing.
The truth is that SAG has tons of support from fellow unions, as can be found in the earlier postings here. Those other union members I speak to on set every day completely understand why it has to come to this, and while they don’t want SAG to strike any more than we do ourselves, they get it.
There will be no animosity toward actors from others in this industry, and certainly no threat of physical harm as was not-so-thinly veiled by Mark Pinter, above. Unbelievable, dude! Even thinking that shows you’re mentally unstable. But posting that on a public forum is as stupid as a person can get.
Something else to remember (and this is very important): It will likely not come to a real strike – this is merely giving our fighters the okay to load ammunition into our ONLY weapon so that the opposition will stop dancing around in our face daring us to fight back. We’re simply doing what we have to do to get the AMPTP back to the bargaining table.
Hold your ground SAG. The studios stocks are tanking. They have no TV, no New movies.
Make side deals like the WGA did and get work going with internet companies from Europe and the rest of the world.
I vote to authorize a strike. If a strike is not authorized, we will get nowhere. Better there be short pain with a much better outcome than dragging this out more and more with less and less certainty about our future like a slow death.
I vote to authorize a strike. If a strike is not authorized, we will get nowhere. Better there be short pain with a much better outcome than dragging this out more and more with less and less certainty about our future like a slow death.
here’s the thing: SAG is in the right; the AMPTP really did cause this with their actions, etc. BUT. SAG showed no foresight, no skill at all in negotiating. they played the game badly. now, with the country in a (wall st/washington-created) financial crisis, no one will support a strike right now. there will be a backlash of epic proportions, even though SAG is right, because of where the country is right now financially. They fucked this whole thing up from jumpstreet. Take the shitty deal, and get ready to re-fight this in 3 years, hopefully with a merged union,(or, at least a united front) and real leadership next time around. You lost because you behaved stupidly,SAG, not because you were wrong.
Wow…what’s interesting still is the SAG members who think that this is about what is “right” or “wrong” or “fair” or “unfair”. It’s going to be very hard to convince anyone outside of our hardcore SAGers that actors (actors!) deserve to shut down a business, even the entertainment business, during hard economic times.
All the AMPTP has to do is get one of their shills to publish the minimum day rate for an actor on a film or television show and you’ve lost any and all public support.
Is that fair? No. But is it fair to completely and totally botch a negotiation to the point where the only recourse you have left is to strike and shut down Hollywood again? I guess it’s up to us to decide that one.
I am just amazed by some of what I’m reading on here. Because some of us disagree with a strike or the need to beat the war drums, we are branded as paid “shills” or “termites” or “pussies”. The name calling and the vitriol on the part of those who are hungry for this strike is very unsettling and disturbing. To me, it says more about the people saying such things than the ones they are attacking. You spend so much time blaming the studios, blaming AFTRA, blaming everyone else – but there is never an ounce of self reflection or taking of responsibility for your own actions. For many of you that write on here, this seems to be not about what’s right for the acting community at all, but rather what suits a chance to vent your anger regarding your careers, your life or whatever. Do you honestly think we are alone here in experiencing hard times? I’m reminded here of the old saying, “Be careful of what you wish for, because you just might get it”. I plan to vote “No” and I truly hope that you militant types don’t succeed with this “mission” because if you do, I think you can expect a virtual firestorm for your efforts. And it won’t be coming from the studios or the producers (who will simply turn to AFTRA or interim deals or whatever else to get around you). The firestorm will come from others connected to this industry..like below the line folk who must survive your strike, who are still recovering from the Writer’strike, who can’t get credit to meet their payroll or find the money to keep their house. With the economy in the shape it is, small businesses are already strapped and fighting to stay alive and you want them to support you? You are asking too much and giving way too little…except in the area of how much vitriol you are willing to spill. Even if you win a strike, you will likely lose far more than you have gained, and you should know that going in. Common sense would dictate that we should be very afraid of a strike right now but you aren’t and you seem downright suicidal in this bent. Even if you succeed, you will lose respect on many fronts and you will engender a bitterness that will not go away soon. In so doing, you will undermine the very foundations you say you are fighting for. Oh, wait..that’s what “termites” do. In your world, if that happens, it would not be YOUR fault, would it? Bottom line: There’s a time and a place for everything..including strikes. This is not the time…not by a long shot. For many of you, I realize that these words are falling on deaf ears, so I will just pray that level heads will prevail and let my vote speak for me in the future. I’ve had my say and that’s all it is…a say. My vote will be my action from now on.
A union doesn’t have any responsibility to think of anyone else other than its members’ benefit. It doesn’t have a responsibility to be concerned with who loses income due to its actions.
It’s fair to criticize SAG or any other union about how its actions affect you, but don’t think for one second it or any other union is supposed to care about anyone else other than its members. That’s how unions work. That’s how they are supposed to work.
Ironically enough, that’s how corporations (of which the unions attempt to juxtapose themselves) work as well. The greedy corporate entities that comprise AMPTP don’t care about anyone else other than their executives’ egos and their shareholders.
The shareholders want more money. So do the guilds.
It’s hard for a public to have sympathy for either side when self-interest regardless of any other consideration is what drives them both. Each side can pitch what is “fair,” but it’s all relative depending on where you’re standing.
Expect overwhelming indifference from the public – AGAIN – and justifiably so. Only the incredibly small number of fandom wankers will comment.
@ Y U Kiko
But yet you kept your internet connection–guess that means you watch all your TV/Movies via computer, which is [income from] one of the reasons why writers like me were on strike, and it’s part of the reason SAG is fighting so hard for a fair and decent agreement…
Here’s what I don’t get about people (and this includes BTL people) who complain about actors and writers fighting for a fair share of the revenue generated by those represented by the AMPTP, why is it you think the AMPTP is allowed to make money hand over fist, but when the people who create and bring that work to life ask for a fair share of the pie, you treat us like parasites?
This is our livelihood, when it shuts down we lose money, too. During the strike I made sacrifices (cutting back on unnecessary expenses, selling a second car, etc) because it was what I needed to do to survive. I did what I did because I believed in the fairness of what the WGA was asking for. I still believe that. I think SAG is just after what we all want, a responsible and fair return for the work which generates so much income for others.
It’s a gift to work in tis business–at whatever you do–and I know that. It’s not digging ditches, working in the cotton fields, or any other job that requires hard work. But it is my chosen profession, and I, like every member of SAG and all the rest of the unions which work in this industry, deserve fair compensation for what we contribute to the revenue of the AMPTP.
I’m not trying to persuade anyone who holds a different opinion, nor am I asking you to agree with me, all I’m saying is try to understand that we all–in every job, whatever it is–want to be treated fairly and with respect. We deserve that–everyone deserves that, no matter who they are or what it is they do.
The actors gave up a lot in the way of residuals when VHS home video came on the market beause the studios were uncertain how this new tech would play out in the industry. At the time they were promised the residuals would come back when it was a proven success. That never happened based on the reasearch I was able to do. Now they want to play that card with new media and screw everyone again with the promise that it will be made up in the future.
If it never came back after VHS… what makes anyone here truly believe they will keep their word this time out. The truth is (from an outsiders perspective) that if its given up now, you wil never get these concessions back.
The ators and other artists have been screwed for over 20 years years with a lot of phony promises from the AMPTP and its time to stop picking and chosing battles. Its time for you people to make the stand s and do what you have to do to get back what is rightfully yours.
This has been an industry that I have wanted to get into a for a good number of years. Only health issues have prevented me from doing so. I rea the trades, I follow this column and I know enough about the issues to know that I fully support the actors in this move.
If you have to strike and it goes on for six months or longer, I’ll be behind all of you 100% percent. Its time to for the payoff. After 20 years of being fucked by the studios without a kiss, its time for you to withdraw your favors and take back what is rightfully yours.
Every TV and movi exec has publically stated that new media is the future. Crys of no money are bullshit and its obvious from the quarterly numbers that there is moe then enough cash on hand to give you what you are asking for. If you win this, the studios will just have to dig into the archives and stream more classic tv on all the websites… or they will find other way to maximize these revenue streams.
SAG deserves every damn thing they are asking for. You guys go for it!
infamous,
do you work for Disney, or Fox?
It’s a good move on SAG’s part. Smart. Network Television thrives during economic downturns. When the conglomerates are losing so much money in other areas, it’s hard to imagine they’ll risk losing a consistent “earner” like TV.
For the first time since this all started I am in total agreement with SAG. They are in the strong position and they should finalize a contract ASAP. People can be as annoyed with SAG as they want, but it’s AMPTP that is to blame for all of it. Management shows no mercy, neither should Labor when the chance arises.
As much as I hate the idea of being out of work again, it’s a smart play.
Aw, man, I want to be able to see how Supernatural’s going to shake out this season! Somebody give in, I don’t really care who, because it’s about me! Me, Me, Me!
Sag, with all due respect – you already lost.
now, you’re just pissing people off.
Better to be a hated person with my fair share (residuals) than a loved person without.
1) Perhaps you bashers could take a meeting and get it together? Half of you want to bash us for making too much money, and the other half contend that all of us who favor a positive strike -authorization- vote must be broke and not working. Good Lord.
2) I, and I’m sure most, working actors who feel we’re only left with one tactic that will restart formal negotiations (strike authorization) support other unions (with action in addition to words) who feel they -must- strike to restart stalled negotiations. Writers, Grocery Workers, whoever.
3) I don’t pay my bills with public perception. a) This is called a “de facto strike” when it is producers, not us, who absolutely refuse to negotiate, and have curtailed production (of at least film) to account for the consequences of -their- refusal to do anything except say “take this contract which will hasten the road to the elimination of residuals, or kiss our ass.” b) Anybody noticed that the slate of films for 2009 is going to suck major ass to the extent there is even product to fill screens? Guess who will be blamed for that. Actors.
And when highly paid studio jobs are in jeopardy next summer because the film rosters in theaters consisted of their home videos, does anybody -really- think they’ll take responsibility for drastically curtailing production of product? Hell no. They’ll do what they always do. Blame us in an attempt to keep or further their own highly compensated station.
So when you’re going to be blamed for whatever happens, regardless, you’re given amazing liberty to do what is right. Apparently, we’re not going to be liked whatever is done, or not done, so why bother worrying about it? If your creditors will be terribly impressed by sending a note saying “but they don’t hate us” instead of payment for your bills, then I need to know whom your creditors are.
4) There are, what. 500 to 600 independent producers who have signed interim agreements with SAG to continue to make film regardless of strike? With surely more to come? Many of us might well be finding at least some work during the strike with an agreement that will give us our fair share of they money they make (or, if they don’t make, infinitely less, since that’s the way fair shares work.
And, god forbid a studio is greedy enough to settle while the others stonewall. They’re going to get a total windfall when they’re films are ready to distrubute, and the others’ are not.
5) Ironic that in the unstoppable transfer of media stream from hard formats to internet, that it’s our residuals which would make things easier during a protacted strike — and that’s probably the primary key to what we’re fighting for.
6) “It’s not time to even authorize a strike.” Guys, the other side of the negotiating table -walked away- months ago with (an at least formal) refusal to negotiate. As many have said, SAG has been VERY patient and has tried all reasonable alternatives and waited a long time before resorting to the tactic that you only use when negotiations have stopped — and have no perceivable chance of restarting absent any CRITICAL change in the landscape.
Last time we “played nice” for the length of one contract, under promises of “we’ll renegotiate this in a few years,” we got SCREWED in a way that fair share monies out of our pocket today; many many years later.
No matter what you think of the process of the poll, the LANDSLIDE vote in favor of NOT taking the deal as offered — and the only deal we -will- be offered is undeniably against taking the pittance deal.
Membership is NOT in favor — and it’s not even close — accepting the deal as offered.
Producers will NOT negotiate formally absent a strike authorization vote. Period. Will they negotiate with a strike authorization approval in hand? If we get it, maybe, maybe not.
Will they negotiate if we strike, sooner (or more likely, later). Guaranteed.
I’m sorry for anybody affected by a strike, even though I and other SAG members have (and will continue to) support you during yours.
But I don’t pay my bills with your sympathy or support. I pay my a majority of my bills through residuals, and if we fall over and play dead at this bellweather time in the history of the Screen Actors Guild, we aren’t -ever- going to be able to get back up again.
Accept a despicable deal with membership has given a VERY strong sign they don’t want, or -authorize- a strike and see if producers want to continue to play the multibillion dollar game of refusing to -negotiate-, and then take it from their.
A strike -authorization- vote is currently our only chance of getting -any- good faith formal negotiations restarted.
Look. You’re going to be villainized regardless. There is NOTHING we can do about the public perception other than literally hand over our paychecks to people who would never even consider doing the same for us. For goodness sake, be villianized with your fair share of the success of your film/tv/streamed media in hand.
When’s the right time to authorize a strike? When negotiations have completely stopped, and show no signs of restarting absent strike authorization.
That time is now. Let’s take the vote. I vote yes.
Wow some of you people live do live in LA LA land. Seriously, think logically, long and hard. Strike now you look like a-holes to the public (and if any TV or Movie fan supports this, then you are idiots) Look at the ratings and see what happend to your shows.
Think of the industry and others not yourselves.
No we have to strike because we can, and we should teach those evil bastards a lesson. Please.
Have you seen what a strike did to TV last season? It killed it, you want to be out of a job for good?
Look at last nights ratings for ABC shows, want to risk it again? Just to save your EGO?
The US is in dire straights, and you want to strike? come off it, were heading into a recession, people are losing their jobs. The Bail out give me a break.. It’s not gonna help out the economy…
Wait until after the Holiday’s when the economy is stronger then strike. But do it now you look like fools.
“enough”, this isn’t about public perseption and the studios should look at what a strike did to TV last season. You say “The US is in dire straights and you want to strike?” Why not instead say, “The US is in dire straights and the studios won’t negotiate and work with SAG to give them better terms?” SAG isn’t necessarily going to call a strike the day the votes are tallied. They could do it whenever – probably after the holidays is best because productions will ramp up again come the first quarter of 2009. But, my point is why do you continue to put this on SAG rather than point your thoughts towards the studios?
Once was Neutral
So, Oil is down to (aprox.) $95.00/barrel from a high of $150.00 (aprox.) and during the higher prices, EVERYTHING went up in cost – blamed entirely on incorporated fuel cost increase. So LET ME REPEAT, Oil is down aproximately 1/3 of the high and yet prices on all other product other than gas /oil have not dropped. Who is investigating this, who is protecting the consumer? Hey Washington (Senators & House of Representatives) get your head out of your a**’s and quit protecting wall street & lobbiests. WHY HAVE PRICES THAT ON AVERAGE ROSE 20% DUE (DIRECTLY, SUPPOSEDLY) TO FUEL INFATION COSTS, NOT COME DOWN?
America – please start asking these questions, emailing your concerns to people you vote into office who then do not represent you in any way worthwhile. (Sorry, but a “new bridge” or “name reecognition bragging rights” (ex-Pelosi) should not cut it anymore. Will some one please tell me – WHY THE COST OF EVERYTHING IS NOW ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED -based off of no longer relevant fuel costs. (ex. -gas here used to be 4.55/gal its currently at 3.51/gal – same station…but (softly) nothing else has had a price drop..nothing…(20-40% increase at grocery stores) (15% increase in utility bills) (?% in consumer products)
Oh my, the conservatives have turned into socialists. “Think of the good of the economy, of the good of the town, the good of the industry, the good of … well, everyone but yourselves.”
As if they’ve ever cared about anything but their own bottom line.
“Infamous”, your comment about high-priced “star” actors is well taken. But it’s not the point of these contract negotiations. This contract affects the BTL (”below-the-line”, for you newbies) actors – the so-called “rank and file”. It’s about scale rates and conditions that affect the non-stars. These high-paid stars’ income doesn’t have anything to do with that.
But your point is not completely unrelated. At the end of the day, any given AMPTP producer who has paid some exorbitant salary to an above-the-line actor (or to many actors, or to a director) doesn’t get the right to bitch about the nickel and dime costs below the line. And they are, relatively speaking, nickel and dime. I’m not grousing the stars’ asking for – and getting – what they want, but have these producers ever heard of the word “no”? For instance, if some star’s $20-40M salary were reduced by only $1M, that $1M would go a long, long way to pay for other production costs – including other actors’ residuals. One million dollars is a sh*tload of money to most people.
When any of you work on a big-budget feature film or TV show, don’t you see the absolute waste of money in so many cases? It’s insane! For AMPTP to “cry poor” while this is all going on is just ludicrous.
And to “Sterling Wolfe”: well said, brother.
mark pinter,
to threaten potential strikers with bullets is ugly to say the least.
that would be like picketers threatening to harm or kill anyone who crossed the line.
what the fuck, mark?
to behind the scenes:
no one held a gun to your head and told you that you must accept a job where you, ” … work 50-60 hours a week and do work that is 75% harder than anything any actor does …”
if you dislike your job, get out.
if you feel you aren’t being paid what you’re worth, try to get more.
this a a marvelous business where people with many different skill sets
come together and create a product that can be, at it’s best, magical.
actors are a big part of the puzzle. i’m sure the conglomerates dream of the day when they just have to pay one star umpteen millions and
create the rest of the cast through CGI. but that day ain’t here yet.
if you bear such resentment against actors, or any other group in this
business whose services are more highly valued than your own,
perhaps you need to find another industry.
according to the LA Times article, it seems that the national board won’t even discuss this till theirmeeting, which is the 18th. Is that true?
First, this is an authorization to strike. Its not a strike.
Its just another tool to use to try bring people back to the table. Sometimes a solid front and a threat to strike can be useful.
Something needs to happen to break the log jam. This is the first step. Let’s everyone be cool, and see what happens before we all start savaging each other.
Strike!!!!who cares. Television and movies are crap. Read a book.
I remember the home run race between Ken Griffey, Jr. and Matt Williams in 1994. I moved half way through the season from near Seattle to the Bay area and I caught several games in both places. It looked like either one of them could beat the Babe’s and Maris’ records. It was exciting as hell. I caught as many games as I could. Then the bastards went on strike. And I stopped watching baseball. Until the steroid-induced euphoria of Maguire and Sosa combined with juicing of the baseballs and orders to pitchers to throw it straight down the middle as the League tried to reclaim its lost luster. That was very short lived especially after all the lies of the Greatest Show on Earth came out. Baseball is dead to me.
The writer’s strike and the resulting lack of viewable content on the TV drove me to watch far fewer hours of TV. I actually don’t watch TV on a TV but rather I watch the shows on fox.com, nbc.com, etc. I have cancelled my cable and will now either wait for the DVD (rented of course through RedBox) or watch my favorite shows on the web. I doubt I will start new shows now – too much left wing propaganda any ways. So effectively TV is dead to me.
And now SAG wants to strike. Great. Will Hollywood become even sadder and unworthy of wasting money on?
IF YOU THINK THIS ECONOMY IS BAD, YOUR SMOKING CRACK. ITS JUST US DEMS PLAYING THE “ECONOMY CARD”. SCREW IT!!! WE HAVE GOT TO KEEP POUNDING THESE PEOPLE UNTIL THEY GIVE US THE MONEY RIGHTLY DESERVING TO US. THEY SIT UP THERE WITH THEIR BILLIONS WHILE WE HAVE TO SLAVE TO EARN OUR SMALL LITTLE CHECKS. I SAY STRIKE!!! AND THEN AFTER WE GET WHAT WE WANT, THROW IT IN THEIR FACE AND DEMAND MORE. IF SAG CAN’T GET THEIR BALLS OUT AND SHOVE THEIR SELFISHNESS IN THEIR FACE, THEN LETS DO WHAT WE KNOW. LETS GO IN AND STRIKE HARD AND RIP THE PLACE APART!!! STRIKE TILL THEY HAVE NO MONEY, WE DO ALL THE WORK!
I cancelled my cable TV during the last strike. While I did watch DVDs a fair bit initially after that, I now find myself playing games and talking with friends online more and more often.
Online games are cheaper and never go on strike.
Everyone is talking about ratings on this thread. There are more programs on the 200+ channels of TV every right now. And next year there will be 250+.
Therefore network viewing and ratings will be down.
It’s now cheaper to get the internet in your house than it is to get cable or satellite. And networks and cable stations stream or sell their shows so people can watch from the comfort of their laptops in bed. So much so that companies have already created the hardware to “jump” our internet based media to our TV’s.
Therefore the future of network viewing will be down.
Not to mention the fact in California at least, we’ve been seeing Ad’s for “The Digital Upgrade” thing where the guy walks in a desert and tells people that Network TV wont be broadcast to their bunny ear antennas anymore. Meaning that we have to legally spend more money for entertainment.
Therefore…you guys get it now.
The Networks are Big Media’s bellwether. But their bell doesn’t exactly ring anymore. And the only way to keep that bell ringing is with money they continue to pull in from their New Media, Cable Networks, and giant parent companies. (sorry CBS)
My point being Big Media has nothing to loose.
They continue to get financing overseas (Thanks Reliant) and continue to pour money into updating their theaters (Thanks JP and Blackstone). So, the money is there.
And let’s be honest, as long as there is the Hills and their creepy spinoffs showing those parent companies that they can make big money off teens and tears on the cheap, to offset MultiMill actors’ salaries: This road won’t get any easier. So, the formula is there.
The big picture doesn’t look good for us. As viewers or working members of the industry. BTL, a decent size of your pensions are paid for by the very actors a few of you are speaking out towards.
Considering that if networks go way of the 8Track due to emerging technologies in entertainment, and if actors dont get a fair shake at New Media Residuals your 40-65 work weeks will really be worth nothing. And we all know this is a family business BTL, so therefore your children will be working far to long and hard into their old age with no light at the end of the tunnel.
Yup, Big Media has us backed into a corner all right. They have nothing to loose. They have no fear.
But by asking for the authorization. Just the authorization to strike, we’re letting those companies, our city, and our entertainment community know that we don’t like this corner they have pushed us into. Will will not cower. We will swing until we hit the ground in defeat if need be.
But we’re not swinging yet. Just getting permission to do so.
Maybe we can give the Producers part of the Bail Out package? Seriously though, the bailout isyet another infringement on our rights by the gov’t. Add it to the ever-growing list of violations:
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, Wikipedia and Facebook.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing at Gitmo.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting illegal wars without declaration.
Impeach them all (both parties) and save this great country. Screw them, strike.
Behind the scenes wrote:
“But, contrary to your belief, you are not the ONLY people suffering in this industry. Do you see agents, managers, PA’s, publicists, etc striking despite the low wages and long hours they work? No. Try to learn from their example.”
Uhm….learn what, exactly?
@Mark Pinter. watch your mouth. And, considering how many undercover believers in the 2nd amendment L.A. has(I’m one of them) regardless of the law, anyone thinking of opening up on a picket line had best invest in kevlar themselves. Ya feel me?
About time they got here, wrote: “Does anyone else see the irony that the AMPTP paid shills showed up late to this…uh…discussion?”
LOL!! It’s funny isn’t it that as the AMPTP comes up with a PR spin actors are being unpatriotic to America’s movie-going public, the movie-going public suddenly appears on this board where they have rarely been to let us know how angry they are.
Forget about the election and the lies, forget about the debates, forget about the banks failing, forget about the $700 billion bail out: we better find a site that appeals to the industry and hit their message board and vent our anger at actors for thinking they dare screw up our lives. Now what to google?
As a former union member, I can assure you that nobody out here in fly-over land gives a damn whether the strike happens or not. Do yourselves a favor and keep working as long as you can. And don’t worry about the justice of it all, you’ll have plenty of time for that later while your standing in line waiting for government cheese. Cheers.
As Leo Ruby pointed out, this is about a strike authorization, not an actual strike. It’s about solidarity. Without solidarity, there is no point to any union, because it’s solidarity that gives a union its strength. Strength in numbers; it doesn’t get any more basic than that.
And VOGuy, what makes you so certain that “SAG showed no foresight, no skill at all in negotiating”? What specifically did they not do correctly?
Open Letter to SAG:
If a strike vote authorization is sought, for goodness sake keep the accompanying materials educational and not obliterational. For instance, I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks that if the average SAG member were asked “does voting for a strike mean we go on strike?” That s/he would answer (wrongly), “well yeah, uh duh. Of course it does. Which, of course, is completely incorrect.
With education, MAYBE a positive strike vote authorization might squeek by despite the (IMHO, absurd) 75% hurdle.
But SAG has a long history of spending tons of money accompanying vote material with expensive hysterics with huge likelihood of insulting and alienating people on the fence (e.g., the HUGE expenditures to try to ram the last flawed merger proposal down membership throats).
IF we can get a “yes” vote at all, if the vote goes out, it will be through actual facts and education about what a yes vote versus a no vote would actually mean (i.e., the possibility of re-engaging producers in formal negotiations without ever actually having to strike); not a 25 page bold faced hysterical diatribe.
With a “yes” vote, there’s a chance that producers might be willing to actually hold formal talks. Without it, as the months compile despite new input (e.g., the informational vote and the new documented monies flowing toward new media) it becomes increasingly clear that absent such a vote, the “last and final offer” will be just that in the near foreseeable future.
No strike authority = no perceived bargaining power = no new negotiations = no new contract.
WillTucson:
We don’t CARE if you folks out in flyover land “gives a damn whether the strike happens or not.” Your support, or lack thereof, has no bearing on our negotiations with our employers.
About time they got here, wrote: “Does anyone else see the irony that the AMPTP paid shills showed up late to this…uh…discussion?”
LOL!! It’s funny isn’t it that as the AMPTP comes up with a PR spin actors are being unpatriotic to America’s movie-going public, the movie-going public suddenly appears on this board where they have rarely been to let us know how angry they are.
—
I don’t watch movies. Hardly ever. I watch TV and I watch it a lot. I supported the WGA during their strike. I don’t appreciate people with lots of money and golden parachutes screwing the people whose backs they make that money off of.
And no one paid me to come here and say that; someone on my House list posted the news of the request for strike authorization and my favorite actor just got elected to the National Board last month.
Do not think that the viewers don’t care – we are the ones who pay you. We are more educated, some of us, about all of this (or at least some of it) than you might think. And we’re tired of reality shows (and in my case, politics)
We don’t CARE if you folks out in flyover land “gives a damn whether the strike happens or not.” Your support, or lack thereof, has no bearing on our negotiations with our employers.
Another Writer/Actor: GUESS WHAT? We’re your customers, no tickee, no workee.
You knuckleheads need to get real.
Zackery: Learn to show a little appreciation and not be so darn demanding, outrageous, and selfish. For instance, a friend, who is a steadily working actor worked 14 days last year and made $150k. I worked 240 days (365 – 104 weekend days – 21 days of vacation) and made $30k. Did you once hear me complain, or strike? No. I worked my 240 days, earned my 30k, because I knew that being in this business that that is what the business pays. You CHOOSE to be an actor. Why should I have to suffer just because you feel you aren’t being paid enough? What you do is not brain surgery and does not, in a meaningful way, impact the greater good. You can tell yourself it does all you want, but face it, you’re not curing cancer, saving lives, or furthering democracy. If someone at my office does not do the work, they get fired, they don’t get sympathy. This is the real world, welcome to it.
“Our family stopped going to the movies long ago, cut off the cable and threw out the television. The result? A jump in the kids grades, my wife and I lost over 20 pounds each because we are exercising more. We now read and talk to each other more instead of watching some idiot box. We know others who are considering doing the same.”
Then why do you care enough to be here?
Concern trolls are out in herds tonight.
Quiz:
After posting, Will Tucson and Pepino;
a) read books requiring their mental participation;
or
b) watched TV for three hours in worked-all-day-passive-mode, had a couple beers, then fell asleep with the TV on.
Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Except, er, not.
I guess it’s futile to remind anybody who isn’t listening that most of our monetary disputes revolve around -profit participation- (a.k.a., residuals), so if there ain’t no profit (because nobody is watching) there ain’t no residuals. Hence, even a real (as opposed to feigned) lack of viewing doesn’t really speak at all to whatever formula is negotiated to dispurse profits, if any.
—-
And “Mark Pinter,” if you want to shoot people on the picket line, lemme know which day you want to jump start that ol’ primered Tercel of yours and head on over, and I’ll wear a shirt with a big red target on a barn door for you. That way, you won’t focus your shooting ability (or lack thereof) on some poor innocent with less need for resulting publicity than myself.
I’ve seen more than one Eddie Murphy movie within the last 15 years, and though traumatized, I’m still standing, pookie, so I sure as fuck can survive you.
No pain, no gain.
Great, SAG strikes, at which point everyone who’s played a reporter, politician, or reporter elbows her way in front of a camera. Tears and pretension follow. The industry loses jobs, credibility, the list goes on. Dozens play out their fantasies, thousands lose their dreams. And Obama is placed in another sticky position. Much of the country is really, I mean really, hoping for a new film industry, maybe this time we’ll give them what they want. The actors once good for $9.00 a pop will learn what they’ve really worth. Too bad they’ll take so many with them. And maybe, just maybe, some real talent will rise from the ashes.
If actors want more money for middle class actors, why don’t they get it from their own Multi-Millionaire Fat Cat A-list Superstars. They’re just as guilty as any producers or studios of wiping huge chunks off the tops of most movie budgets. And they’re actually your “brothers and sisters”!
HELLO!!
Maybe if they weren’t so stinkin’ greedy, and weren’t so addicted to plastic surgeons, shrinks, and rehabs, there’d be a whole lot more to go around.
Wah, wah, wah!!! Oink, oink oink!!
Yeeeesh!
“It isn’t selfish to demand a fair deal.”
NO but it IS selfish to be totally stupid and oblivious to the CRASHING economy of the entire World.
Could all you insuluar SAG Morons buy yourself a clue and just for a second take a peek outside at the REST of the WORLD????
Thank GOD my money is in MS since almost everything else has TANKED!
So far I can get by. A lot of others don’t have the big bux you asshats do ride out a strike.
I’m a a 15 year SAG member and all I will do is LAUGH do is LMAO at a ‘Strike Authorization’ vote.
I’Just like the hundreds of members I know will do as well.
SEND US THE STRIKE AUTHORIZATION ….. so we can finally get it through your dumbass heads we are done DONE with this dead-lock.
Take the deal morons, if it’s even STILL there.
“114.I cancelled my cable TV during the last strike. While I did watch DVDs a fair bit initially after that, I now find myself playing games and talking with friends online more and more often.
Online games are cheaper and never go on strike.”
Works for me, works for the game industry just does’t work for SAG… BTW: Gaming has now surpassed Box Office and TV.
I’m an actor and a gamer and if these ‘living-in-a-dream-world’ morons somehow manipulate a strike vote to claim 75% of us voted for it…
Well, I’l just be doing VO acting for games, doing webisodes, and of course playing games on my 360 and PC gaming rig, while watching my former guild make even bigger asses out of themselves than I’d previously believed possible.
I’m all for the strike. If there is anything I can do to get it going and keep it going just let me know.
My comment on ‘bullet-proof vests’ seems to have touched a few nerves. Good. Those who object seem to think I’m a proponent of violence. Nothing could be farther from the truth. My point is this: Unlike the strike of 1981, in the hearts and minds of most of us who make a living in this business, the thought of a strike now is a selfish and baseless action that will derail an already delicate industry at a critical time in our nation’s economy. Leadership has backed us into a corner and now hasn’t the integrity to suck it up. I would ask that you consider not making the thousands of others, who make their living in support of, to pay for the failure of SAG at the negotiating table. SAG cannot operate in a vacuum…this is a collaborative industry. We cannot and should not go it alone. Perhaps, ‘bullet-proof vests’ was harsh…but no one will have out backsides if this goes forward.
If you deny writers, actors, and the other innovators any of the residuals of a work, then these large corporations, in essence, become the very same file sharing thieves they claim to be harmed by.
Behind the scenes writes: “Zackery…Did you once hear me complain…?”
Not once. Just these two times so far.
“…Why should I have to suffer just because you feel you aren’t being paid enough?”
Make that three.
But whatever the case, your situation greatly concerns me.
Its so easy to be adamant when your real income is waiting tables, selling shoes, or 1,001 other jobs that are NOT acting for a living like 90% of the SAG members who claim they are so militantly for a strike. Until and unless SAG makes its rules take into account actual, real WORKING actors and actual, real people with something to WIN as well as lose in any deal, they’ll be seen by the rest of the industry and the world at large as what they are–poseurs, frauds, and fools. The basic response to this common sense truth by SAG die-hards whose only real connection to this industry is showing up at the DGA theater (and trashing its facillities and restrooms like pigs, btw, unlike any others who screen there) for movies is the same old bad punchline that’s been around for years: “Hey Mr. So-Called Actor Union Member, why don’t you NOT VOTE or open your trap if you never, ever work at this and earn your real income elsewhere?” INDIGNANT REPLY: “What? And give up SHOW BIZ!?!?!”
Utter nonsense, just as everyone’s come to expect from SAG. A damn shame, but if you don’t clean up your own house, nobody else will give a damn when the studios simply ignore you as the petulant children you’ve become.
There are already a large amount of productions being done off shore, which is hurting the crew. Now, if the $$ folk accept the SAG demands, they will use that as an excuse to do even more productions outside of the US.
Look at the auto, electronics, steel, and clothing industries to see this happen again and again. Do you think Detroit ever thought that there could be an auto indistry without them? How about Pittsburgh, you think they thought there could be a steel industry without them?
The big money folk will ‘capitulate’ to kitchen sink contracts and then pull the rug out from under your entire industry. The entertainment industry will follow the aforementioned industries’ lead and see most of the production monies flow outside of the borders. Over-aggressive Union negotiations do not help in the modern global economy.
Welcome to the world most of us from ‘fly-over country’ live in. Sucks, don’t it?
Common Sense…you live up to your name. As one of those fortunate to make his living in this business, I could not agree more. For the life of me, I cannot understand the degree to which some posters here are willing to spit such venom and how they could possibly think this makes them look good, much less professional. Because a working actor who has something at stake is concerned about the tone of this rhetoric, the volatility of the situation, or the WAY things are being approached, does not make them idiots or shills or any of the other myriad names that they (we) have been called. Many of us are parents and homeowners with abiding responsibilities, just like other people in all areas of this business. We believe no less in our union even if we are measured in our approach. To attack those that differ with your opinion to such a degree is flatly and simply counterproductive overall. And while the working actors have the most to lose, even the non-working actors will pay for that approach over time. It’s hard enough to build a career in this business. We can have our differences but still be smart. We can be professional without so much attacking and fingerpointing. Would you respect anyone that did that to you?
>> Won’t break my heart if the industry stops again, though I would feel bad for the people that work behind the scenes. Not so much for the people who play dress up and make believe and think they deserve to be fawned on, worshipped and paid exorbitantly for it.
Comment by Fine with me — October 2, 2008 @ 9:01 am<<
HAHAHA!! And work SUCH long and grueling hours and then go back to a luxury trailer between scenes. THE HORROR!!!!!
“if ever there was a time when Americans wanted the diversions of movies and television, it is now”. Once again, you fail to look outside your own community for “Americans” I shut off the cable TV shortly after the last strike started. I enjoy all the time I have back for more important pursuits, like paying attention to what our government is really doing to us while our attention is “diverted”. Keep it up.You have forgotten you sell a product, like shoes or milk. Raise the price,(in wasted time or insults to your customer’s intelligence), and you lose your market.Business is business. Respect your customers or lose them.
“Mark Pinter”
Logically, if you insist that actors would be “taking food out of your mouth” by striking, during a vast majority of the time, SAG must be “putting food in your mouth.” But it appears that nobody in SAG got any thank you whatsoever during a vast majority of the time that without actors, you apparently wouldn’t be making a living. No “pick me up bouqets, no free hallmark thank-you e-cards … *sniff* … just nothing.
You never call, you never write during the good times. :`(
Damn, Mark. You so … so … dark.
Maybe you could come to the lines (surely similar to those you say you walk when it’s in your own self insterest, rightly putting your own working contract needs in the foreground when negotiations involving you personally have reached a stalemate) and get a clearly-needed collaborative feel-good group hug. But I’d think you might want to leave your firearms at home. Restraining orders are not like collecting baseball cards. There’s no prize for “collecting the whole set” if you choose to go out hunting people’s “uncovered backsides.” Because I’m afraid that I’m all out of the “bullet-proof vests” you claim we’ll need, though I do have a Hawaiian shirt that’s fugly enough to stop anything short of a .50 cal mid-flight. And bullet proof vests are just so 80s retro; not fashion forward.
I just watch your movies and TV and all I have to say is…..Long Live NetFlix! With PC Games, cable, the library, local museums, THE BACK YARD,etc., even if my 2-income family turns into a 1-income, we’ll have plenty to entertain ourselves w/o you guys.
It’s the obnoxious, in-your-face-we-force-our-opinions-in-the-news actors that I’m sick of. Sorry everyone else that makes this industry work has to suffer.
OMG. The poor millionaire actors need more money. At the same time the Governator is asking for money from the Fed for California. Why don’t they tax the millions of dollars these a _ _ holes already have. They tax 100% of my money, why not these clowns?
Who do these people think they are…French?
Once was neutral, first of all your comment about below the line grunt personally offends me as a member a working member of the below the line community and it only shows your disdain and disrespect for the people that quite frankly make productions happen. So much for solidarity I guess, but I’m not here to bash actors the fact is that all departments are integral to film, television or any other production aiming for any degree of quality. Try pulling grip, electric or art dept. and seeing how quickly things get done or how the finished product looks. The point is that this industry and the people in it can not afford another strike right now. We’re not talking about people tightning up their belt strap we are talking about people losing their homes. We are barely recovering from the last strike and to authorize another, right before Christmas no less, is not only irresponsible it is almost criminal regardless of the reason. There are people in this industry, myself included, who work long hours (12-18 a day) and preform hard manual labor for a fraction of what actors make so we can provide a decent life for our famililes. I understand voting for a strike authorization does not mean that a strike will happen but given the tenor of the negotiations does any think SAg won’t strike if authorized? As for those that will say that my line of thinking is weak or that it undermines unionized labor I say this, I am a union member and I support collective bargaining, I supported with the writers when they struck; but there are times when people must take a pragmatic approach and realistically assess the situation. This is the worst possible time to strike there are a perfect storm of events coming together, including the state of the economy, current downtrend of the industry and the previous writers strike that will make another strike a devastating blow the industry may not recover fully from. Remeber that “discretion is the better part of valor” I garuntee that a strike will be met with hostility from everyone in the industry and America at large. I urge whatever SAG members read this post to vote against a strike authorization. You can still strike in three years, I’ll even support it then.
It’s illuminating to me that virtually every SAG dissenter in any of the posts on these topics aren’t blaming the AMPTP at all. All of their blame and vitriol is aimed at SAG leaders and members. Why aren’t any of you pressing for the AMPTP to come back to the table and negotiate fairly? It’s like all of you naysayers are chanting, “It’s okay with us that the AMPTP is greedy and unfair – as long as it’s SAG’s income that’s being shorted, not ours. We don’t care what the AMPTP has done to create this impasse, we’re blaming SAG because we don’t like actors – especially if you SAG people decide to strike. We’ll really blame you then.”
I think what you’re really afraid of is that SAG really is that powerful – powerful enough to stop film and TV production in its tracks (and you’d be correct). I believe that you don’t think its right that we use the only weapon we have to not allow our union to get crushed by the multi-millionaire lawyers. We (SAG) absolutely don’t want to strike – we only want the AMPTP to come back to the table and continue to negotiate – fairly, this time. Do you understand what “fair” means? Some facts:
Truth #1: the AMPTP has stopped all interest in formal negotiations, not SAG. Authorizing a strike will get them back to the negotiating table.
Truth #2: the AMPTP is attempting to take away things that SAG already has – things which SAG will not give away, and the AMPTP knows this. SAG has worked hard and suffered great burdens in the past to realize these work conditions and wages. Residuals, in particular, are a major component of an actor’s income. This is a fair and proven business model for both actors and producers.
SAG is not asking for anything more than we already have (short of a very modest wage increase, stated below) – we’re just trying to hold on to our current deal and stop the AMPTP from stripping us of our control of our own careers.
Truth #3: the AMPTP has suggested that we “see how this new media thing goes, and we’ll renegotiate it later” – which has never been the case with the AMPTP. The most obvious example is DVD participation. They’ve made billions on DVD sales and have never allowed that renegotiation back on the table. Their history and track record shows their true intentions.
And the ugliest truth: AMPTP greed. Yes, SAG is asking for a modest, I do mean very modest, increase in wages. (This, by the way, is not one of the sticking points of the negotiations.) The AMPTP is making millions more dollars in these new media markets. Sure, great, we all want the entertainment industry to prosper. But SAG is merely asking for the same rules in new media that already exist in more traditional forms of media – a percentage of the profits, not cash up front; not a dollar amount, but percentage of profits. That’s how we roll, and have rolled since residuals were agreed upon decades ago. Online media should be no different.
Can an AMPTP film be produced and marketed for under $50M? Not many, not these days. Marketing costs alone are exorbitant and they’re spending more and more on marketing every day. Whatever SAG actors cost producers has NOTHING to do with those increasing costs. But the bottom line budgets still go up and up and… My point is that as the budgets get bigger and bigger, SAG’s relative costs to the producer get smaller and smaller. (And I’m not talking about ATL actors here – just the actors who work for scale, on a contract where the numbers and rules are pre-set.) Producers are willing to spend more and more millions on marketing (even a bad) their film, but they balk at paying their professionals in the same way they always have; the professionals who physically made the film? BTL actor costs are a pittance of these crazy budgets.
It isn’t selfish that we would strike – it’s what we might have to do to stand up to this Goliath. The AMPTP is attempting to change the rules – rules which have stood for many decades – to profit even more than they are. For those of you who already think it’s SAG actors who are greedy and/or selfish, re-read this posting carefully.
Why are you people blaming SAG and not screaming at the AMPTP to play fair? Because you either don’t know what “fair” is, or you don’t care that other professionals in this industry get screwed. But don’t worry – your union(s) are on the screwed list too. Ask BTL I.A.T.S.E. about that. And the writers who just struck? They’re already not getting paid what their “new and improved” contract says…
“The AMPTP: coming to a union contract negotiation near you very soon.”
_______________
And Mark Pinter: don’t defend your moronic statement, fool – just apologize and claim temporary insanity. Dayum!
What do you mean we need you more now than any other time? we can’t afford you now. go out and get a real job!!!! the entertainment field is such a joke!!! you guys don’t give a rat’s patootie about the rest of the ‘REAL’ world, why should we care if you guys strike yourselves into oblivion ….
Get a job, get a life, and make them REAL!!!!
I want a FAIR cut of the upcoming DVD’s and other/future electronic media streams of the five old series I had leads in…A couple of them are already out there…and the 300+ guest star roles. Also, I do not want to see my image – or any other SAG member’s – used down the line without permission or compensation in commercials and/or whatever the suits cobble together for streaming videos on internet webcasts. Wake up Negotiators! This is serious business! THIS IS IT! THERE’S NO GOING BACK!
Mark Pinter writes, “My comment on ‘bullet-proof vests’ seems to have touched a few nerves. Good.”
In a post Columbine/9-11/Virgina Tech world you are either a world-class idiot or dangerous.
Well I don’t feel sorry for them!! Get Barbara Streistand to bail you out!
Actor #274’s comments seals it for me. Actors are a self-centered, short-sighted and cruel bunch. The btls put the make up on your faces, the costumes on your backs, they light you so you look good, they put your face on film and then they cut, nay, save your ass, in the cutting room, and on the soundstage. Without the btls, you’d be standing on a street corner selling flowers. WE MAKE YOU GUYS LOOK GOOD, EVEN TO THE POINT OF CONSTRUCTING A GOOD PERFORMANCE OUT OF THE CRAP YOU’VE GIVEN US. AND THEN WE UPLOAD YOUR STUPID FACE TO THE SATELLITE (OR SHIP THE PRINTS TO THE THEATERS THAT THEN PROJECT THEM) SO THE UNFORTUNATE WORLD CAN WORSHIP YOU.
And what does are hard work and long hours get us? Abuse from divas – ‘Don’t talk to the star’ ‘Don’t put the straw in the glass on the right side’ ‘Where the fuck are my shoes, you moron? A monkey could do a better job.’ I AM AN ACTAHHHH!
You are a waiter. Don’t expect any tips from me. I need the money to try and keep my house.
From production through post, the btls have been suffering through the writer’s strike and then SAG & AFTRA’s hissy fits. YOU HAVE BEEN ON A DE FACTO STRIKE SINCE NEGOTIATIONS STARTED. It hasn’t hurt you because you can still work at your REAL job. It’s hurting us badly because this is our REAL JOB and no one will go into production because of your shilly-shallying.
Most of us cheered the Writer’s on, even providing donuts and joining picket lines. Does Actor #274 know what a TEAMSTER is? They would not cross the writer picket lines. So much for your declaration that we don’t give a crap. But circumstances are profoundly different, if you understand the word ‘economy’, you know what I mean. SAG has taken it’s own sweet time to resolve this without regard to how it already is hurting the btls (WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG FOR YOU TO GET YOUR ASSES BACK TO THE TABLE!). Don’t expect support or sympathy from the btls on this one. We’ll be too busy moving out of our foreclosed homes, taking our kids out of their good private schools we can no longer afford and becoming waiters, like you. And you can bet we’d do it a lot better.
ATTENTION DRUDGE MOUTHBREATHS: Please do us all a favor and shut the fuck up. No one gives a damn about your lies about not watching TV or movies; you still do, your families do, your friends do – they’re the reasons the box office is booming and will continue to, because even in the worst Depression (you know … the GREAT one?), talkies made big bucks. Shove it up your ignorant asses and let the big boys talk about the real issues while you suckle a Coke and watch Fox with a thumb up your ass.
A strike by actors is about as sympathetic as a strike by professional athletes.
to behind the scenes:
‘ ..i made 30K a year …did you once hear me complain? ”
the answer is YES. you’re complaining now that actors make more than you do for work you consider to be mindless.
if it’s so goddammed easy, Behind the Scenes, why don’t you become an actor? then you could make more money for less work.
you told zackary (sp?) and the rest of us actors that,
“this is real world, get used to it.”
well, surprise BTS! in the “real world”,
different people are compensated
according to their perceived worth in the market place.
your particular experience in your little corner of the world is not the whole picture.
if you don’t like your job, quit.
if you need/ want more $$$, figure out a way to get it.
stop whining and do something to change your life.
aquire some new skills. take an acting class.
mark pinter,
as soon as you threatened violence, of any kind, as a way to deal with a
political situation you disagree with, you lost all credibility.
everyone is tense. everyone is frustrated and a lot of people are scared.
as soon as a person opens up the Pandora’s box of,
“Let’s settle this thing in blood!”, they are irretrievably lost.
SAG=Marxists
“if ever there was a time when Americans wanted the diversions of movies and television, it is now.”
What a dire situation America is in! Guess we’ll just have to turn off the TV and not go to the movies and actually spend quality time with our loved ones or maybe doing things we ought to do instead of sitting in front of the tv and vegetate.
It’s not called “amusement” for nothing…
A-moral: “without morals”
A-theist: “without God”
A-muse: “without thought”
Just more Hollywood banter on how self important they are. Leave the real issues to grownups.
I strongly support SAG going on strike. And I strongly support the strike lasting forever.
There are hundreds of thousands of actors in LA who would be more than happy to take the work that these “Americans” don’t want to do. So why not let them?
Yup. Stay on strike forever. No one will miss you.
Pearls of Wisdom – Incoming fire always has the right of way.
Like every year, I have worked the contract that is currently being discussed, but just out of curiosity, how many of you
a) Have worked the contract this year
b) Have worked the contract in the last 5 years
c) Have never worked the contract
d) Have high hopes that one day will work the contract
be honest
Getting ready to ruin Christmas again for all the production crew employees?
Writers didn’t give a hoot about them last year. Now the actors will be doing the same.
The poor babies want billions instead of mere millions. For playing dress-up.
Hollywood is full of selfish greedy brats.
Those of us who don’t work in the entertainment industry and yet watch your crap from time to time didn’t miss your “original” programming when the writers went on strike. We won’t miss you if you strike this time. In fact, we’ll still watch TV and still go to the movies. Why? Because watching TV and going to the movies is not something we do because you’re clever and witty and oh-so-cool. It’s something we do to kill time, and we can kill time just as easily watching MASH and Dexter reruns as we can watching a new episode of 30 Rock.
Okay, I’m going to go ahead and make take an unsolicited shot at the Nostra-dumb-ass award for predicting the future.
SAG will make a run for strike authorization, which will fail when only 52% vote in favor of it.
Then producers will issue a bunch of really asinine press releases, for months on end, that never fail to be internally contradictory (i.e., “Americans want to see film and TV more than ever in these hard times, and we’ll buy lots of tickets so that’s why we’re poor).
Academy award season will come, and they’ll get all panicky we’ll strike it, so they’ll come out with their second “final offer,” accompanied by a total refusal to re-engage in formal negotiations; a proposal that unfortunately will also be so lame it won’t even be submitted to SAG membership for a vote.
Then, around late Summer, after about the only thing in theaters all summer long are 8 Adam Sandler movies, and film attendance sets an all time low:
1) lots of peops will get fired;
2) those concerned about getting fired will blame everybody but themselves, but especially SAG;
3) And there will be a few studio heads who will say “fuck! maybe I should have made some films for this year instead of putting “My doggie’s first ass lick” on 2,300 screens. Maybe I should make some films for next year so I can keep my job.
And in getting to this point, money will have shifted VERY significantly toward new media distribution, though producers will still claim, “it’s too new, so we cannot let you participate in the profits we’re making, so we will just keep all the money we’re pretending we’re not making, and renegotiate just as soon as Pauly Shore makes a comeback to be the #1 Global star.”
Nonetheless, at that point, producers will engage in quasi-real negotiations with SAG, and an agreement will be reached that nobody is happy with (which is always the case with a compromise).
And in the mean time AFTRA will have made 347 television pilots, 345 of which that will have been pulled (if they ever aired) because they will suck SERIOUS ass, just like the so-called “union” jurisdiction under which they were made. Producers will be saddened, by this, because by that time AFTRA will have “negotiated” that every actor will be paid $.49 with no residuals, and may be gang raped upon set arrival at producers’ sole discretion.
Okay, I’ve called it. If you call it differently, love to hear it.
Hey btl and proud …
The circumstances that might make this a bad time to strike are the very circumstances that make it a good time for the AMPTP to try to screw everybody.
For those of you who want new leadership, you just elected some new leadership. If you’re still not happy, maybe you’re looking in the wrong direction for people to blame.
If there is any justice in the world, no one will ever go see another movie and will stop watching crappy sitcoms. It amazes me that you people actually believe you are contributing something constructive to our society. Your only real contribution is warping children’s mind at a young age. Bravo. I guess we owe you. Please, go on strike and don’t come back. I’ll be outside playing with my children like I’ve always done while you try to find a real skill in life.
Calling a strike at this late date, in this economic climate, is like calling for a miracle end run in the pouring rain after the game’s been called and the fans have all gone home.
The cheapest and fastest way to get everyone desperate for work out from under their crushing debt loads and back on their feet is for the studios to put the last offer back on the table, minus the retroactive, but with the added incentive of covering the buyout for Doug Allen’s contract.
Put that on the ballot and see how fast these issues resolve themselves.
If SAG wants to put out an education campaign they need to focus on numbers. Numbers, numbers, numbers. Let the public and the members see in black and white what Big Media is making off writing, performance and talented crew work in this industry.
No need for complicated press releases, explanations, or anything that will give the AMPTP room to spin bullshit.
Show their numbers versus everyone else’s (SAG, WGA, DGA) and let the facts speak for themselves.
A strike would be IRRESPONSIBLE in these times. If it only had an impact on actors, that would be a different story, but it doesn’t…TOO MANY will have to suffer in times that are already hard. There will be another time to fight this battle…now is not it. Let’s get things back to normal. I don’t want to go through another year like this. Times are hard…why make them worse?
What I don’t understand is the immediacy of this action? In my opinion, the entire industry is too fractured for any group to get a fair deal. The economy will not support another strike and the public will not be sympathetic to actor’s demands at this time.
Why not take this contract and use the next 3 years to build a solid coalition with the writers, directors, and your fellow actors in AFTRA? The writers and directors can surely work without contracts for a few months until the actor’s contracts come due and a strike by all 4 unions would have more impact then a half-assed one would now. Bite the bullet for the next three years and then make the studios pay the next time the contract comes up. With everyone united, then no one will be left out when it comes to the payoff.
It’s not that the public doesn’t understand your concerns. And it’s not that we don’t sympathize. But we also see that a strike at this time will fail miserably and will hurt millions in California alone. Think about what you are doing, think about what you stand to gain and what you stand to lose if you choose to fight at this time. If you strike now, you’ll cause a pretty minor ripple. If you, the writers, the directors, and, possibly, the BTL workers strike in 3 years, it will cause a virtual tsunami.
to “Over It”
there is never a good time for a strike and a strike always adversely affects some workers other than the striking force.
when times are good people will say, “you can’t strike now. everyone’s working and making money.”
when times are bad they’ll say, “people are gonna get hurt. times are tough. you can’t do this now.”
there is an element in this union, and in most unions, that will always say, “this is not the time. live to fight another day.”
but then, that time never comes for those people. because they will NEVER strike or even authorize one. they will accept anything management offers them and will actually fight with their union brothers and sisters for the right NOT to fight the bosses.
the guild was formed in 1933 when the studios were making big $$$.
the major escape for the common man in the depression was the movies.
the moguls, in their infinite greed, thought it would be a good idea
to cut in half the wages of the supporting actors who were under contract. after all, there was a depression on and hundreds of thousands of people would’ve lined up for those jobs.
that’s why the guild came into being. to stop the capricious treatment
of actors who were not stars.
the moguls could afford to pay the regular rates.
they just didn’t want to.
some things never change
SAG…please consider the current offer and let’s all go back to work at our respective studios/production companies and play nice. Thank you.
Sterling,
Your premise/prediction has an interestingly bizarre conclusion in it: Namely that somehow the QUALITY and audience ACCEPTANCE of a TV show is based on whether or not it is SAG or AFTRA staffed. Do you REALLY think that the only talented performers in the known universe are SAG members and that without them entertainment as we know it will fail to entertain? Are you THAT isolated from the Internet, or from the fact that even though they may not be of James Wong Howe caliber, every jerk with a video camera is now making “movies” and thus every pal of those jerks in front of those cameras is now an “actor” and that while most if it IS crap, some of it gets seen a LOT thanks to YouTube and other such venues. In point of fact, with 200-plus channels on your cable/sat provider, there are now amateur-night “entertainment” videos on the ‘net that get MORE VIEWERS than even some MAJOR network (an oxymoron these days) shows ever will—heck the “Numa Numa” kid has been seen more than the stars of most of this fall’s new premieres ever WILL be.
The technology has made the “market” bigger. But it hasn’t radically increased the size of the AUDIENCE. Therefore, the same basic number of eyes/ears/butts-in-seats will be spread over VASTLY MORE entertainment venues, leaving any ONE of them–even the more famous and especially the SAG-staffed ones–with LESS of what we all sell: Monetizable Attention Span.
So…if you think making your part in the process more expensive in an era when the competition is making it cheaper or making your part more obstreporous when the competition is getting/going along, or your part more adamant and contrary and non-negotiable when the competition is making deals and doing shows…if you think all that works FOR you and that there is a kind of “SAG Exceptionalism” akin to “American Exceptionalism” now being debated in the political arena….you are a noble and idealistic fella..but from a business pov a damned fool and a self-destructive one, too.
Harry98,
In 1933 you were the only game in town. Today you’re not even the biggest one.
In 1933 you had 500 stars. Today you’re lucky to count 50 or 25 in that status who can “open” a picture.
In 1933 they owned the theaters, too. Today they don’t even own the desktop.
Your arguments all make sense…if this was 1933. But it’s not.
And never will be again. Period.
You said “some things never change”…but you fail to notice that MANY things DO…and have.
—
P.S.–when I first heard the term “Capricious Discharge” in Hollywood laborspeak, I thought it must refer to some condition that required pennicillin and quick. Now I know that “capricious” in Hollywood is what people call their opponents when they, themselves, are being suicidally capricious indeed.
Sterling:
Your contention that the shows will suck because they use AFTRA actors rather than SAG is pretty damn silly, don’t you think? For starters, most SAG members who work in TV also have AFTRA membership. And as more and more shows become AFTRA signatories that simply means that more and more SAG members will become AFTRA card holders as well.
Further, the whole SAG/AFTRA split in TV jurisdiction based upon whether shot in film or video has become less significant in the era of high end digital technology. More new shows are already AFTRA and some existing shows are contemplating a switch. It’s not going to be gigantic, maybe a 20-30% shift over the next year or two, but that could go up if SAG can’t resolve its negotiations.
And some showrunners and producers I’ve talked to are hesistant to go with SAG again even if the negotiations should succeed. They have ceased to trust SAG.
Finally, as far as I can see from my work in TV the real quality difference in a show is in the writing. As long as the WGA is working…we’re good.
to “Common Sense”
here’s a little script of the stuff that never changes:
Corporate Boss:
“We’ve got to keep costs DOWN!!! Any ideas?
Ambitious Middle-Management Person:
“I know! Let’s fuck Labor!!!
Corporate Boss:
“Outstanding!!! Meeting adjourned!!!
It’s time to wake up and face reality folks. We are looking at financial institutions collapsing, millions of people losing their homes and companies failing at a record rate.
The southern California area survives because of all the BTL folks that work here, live here and keep the bills paid. They support local economy and keep this area going. These are not the people making $40 million dollars a picture. They’re the ones who arrive to set at 4 a.m. and stay until midnight.
Quite a few of them, my family included, will be in danger of losing their homes if we face a 6 month strike as is predicted.
We’re not talking about having actors working for free, we’re just asking them to continue as is for now. During a time when so many people are losing their jobs, taking pay cuts, etc. that’s just common sense.
They will be shooting themselves in the foot if they strike. Do they really think hey will get any better deal than all the other unions? I think this will give AFTRA more power and bury the SAG if they do this. I mean look at their strike history recently, they let commercials leave Hollywood for Toronto…..You think these guys would learn. They also opened the door for reality tv, anyone remember Cops? So go ahead and screw yourselves again and maybe congress will take a look at your anti Aftra campaign instead of negotiating when you had the chance and now that we are in an economic crisis you now want to negotiate? Are you freaking nuts? With company stocks falling through the floor do you honestly think you are going to get a better deal? This maybe the plan put pressure on the ceo’s with stocks dropping and a strike will make it drop even further. I think you will just fracture the guild and end the overall existence of sag itself.
For those who are jonesing to strike:
1.)You’re not starving coal miners facing unsafe conditions. That’s who labor unions were created for, people who are really suffering.
2.)The Dow dropped to 8,970 during the past hour. It may go back up, true, but those with a background in economics can explain why that number being so low should give you nightmares.
Now is NOT THE TIME to strike. This is a democratic voting, pro labor person telling you this. Live to fight another day and present a joint effort with all the other entertainment unions.
Hello! can you hear me, Hello! can you hear me. I can hear you and your not making much sense. There is a reason why only a very small percentage of SAG members work.Getting three vouchers and paying a ton of money to the people who run SAG does not make you an actor.The reason is that most of you are not very good at hitting your mark and remembering your lines,and it is those people who will authorize the strike vote. Those of us who do make a living understand,maybe even have some empathy,but if your not making enough money now acting nothing is going to change.See you in the unemployment line.
20HR MAN
Just because I think a strike these days is a horrible idea for the entire industry, I’m not a coward. Try reality for a moment. I’m a member of the Editors Guild and I know a few great audio people who couldn’t afford the writers’ strike and had to leave town. People with decades of experience. And now, in the midst of the economic craphole we’re left with and the seering financial pain inflicted by the writers’ strike, an industry shutdown at this point is going to send many many many of us below the line folks into bankruptcy. Is that really what SAG members want? How is that helpful to you? We’ll all be fighting to work on whatever crappy reality show pops up just to feed our kids and pay our mortgages and bills. Come on people. Take one for the team and renegotiate jointly with the DGA, WGA and AFTRA in 3 years. If SAG strikes, I’ll definitely be across the street counter-picketing. I’ll be out of work and have plenty of time to…