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UPDATE! PART IV: NBC Rejects WGA's Investigation Of Jay; SAG Urges Actors To Go On Dave & Craig
PART II: The Writers Guild Of America acknowledges that its meeting with Jay Leno took place on December 31st but has significantly different details from NBC's account of the confab with the WGA West president and other guild members. (See my previous, PART I: NBC Claims Jay Asked For & Received WGA Permission To Write Monologue At Secret Monday Meeting With Verrone.) "No, Patric Verrone did not say 'We're going to look the other way,' I don't recall him ever saying anything that could be construed as giving Jay the OK to write a monologue," the spokesperson designated by the WGA to talk to me because he was at the meeting told me tonight. "NBC is trying to stir things up. I think they want to take the focus off their own refusal to bargain in good faith. And instead of having people aware of the real dispute, which is between NBC and the WGA, they want to put Jay Leno in the middle."
According to the guild's version of events, the confab described by NBC wasn't about Jay's monologue. The union told me that Jay Leno requested the meeting with WGAW president Patric Verrone in the wake of the WGA making an interim agreement with David Letterman's Worldwide Pants to bring back The Late Show with his writers. Since NBC owns The Tonight Show, Jay can't make the same deal so he was coming back without his writers. "The meeting was about his feeling that he was being mischaracterized as the bad guy for going back and doing the show. He wanted the guild to get the message out that he supported the writers. And we certainly agreed with that," the insider told me.
Leno attended the meeting accompanied by his striking Tonight Show writers, "I think they came out of loyalty to Jay and hoping to see Jay's concerns taken seriously by the guild and resolution found," the source said.
"But it wasn't until close to the end of the meeting, when we had gotten to the point where Jay understood our position was that we were not trying to make him look like a bad guy, that he said, "OK, I'm going to do the show, and I'm going to do my monologue.' And what I think Patric said was, 'You're taking one for the team. And we understand that.' "
When I asked what was meant by "team", the insider said, "For the guild." And that was the end of the meeting.
But here's what I can't understand. Leno tells the WGA he's going to do his monologue. And that doesn't ring a bell for the guild members to ask him HOW he's doing that monologue?
"In retrospect, it should have been clarified right then and there," the WGA spokesperson admitted to me. "But the exchange came at the end of a long and difficult meeting and we were wrapping it up and it was one of the last exchanges in the meeting."
It's clear that, on Monday, the guild did not repeat the warning about "no monologues" which it had issued the day NBC announced that Leno and Conan O'Brien were going back on air. (See my previous, WGA Reminds Returning Jay And Conan: No Monologues.) But it's also a he said/he said situation whether or not the guild actually gave Leno a pass on writing his monologue. "I don't believe I heard Jay saying he was 'writing' his monologue. I thought I heard him say he was 'doing' his monologue," the guild insider specified. The source added that he himself thought that Leno was going to ad-lib his signature standup opening and not write it because that would break his writers union's strike rules.
Today both the WGA and NBC issued dueling statements after I posted here on Deadline Hollywood Daily that Jay admitted last night on the air during his first show back from strike hiatus that he had written his own monologue -- an act tantamount to strike-breaking. First, the WGA said publicly that "a discussion took place today between Jay Leno and the Writers Guild to clarify to him that writing for The Tonight Show constitutes a violation of the Guilds’ strike rules." I was told by the guild that Leno explained to the WGA he thought he was following the WGA rules because of a provision in the Guild's so-called "Minimum Basic Agreement" that allows for a performer to write for himself. But then the union made "very clear" to him that the pact also clearly states that this provision does not apply to a Guild member who also happens to employed on the show as a writer. (Leno is both a credited writer and producer of the NBC-owned Tonight Show as well as host.)
Then, NBC complained publicly: "The WGA agreement permits Jay Leno to write his own monologue for The Tonight Show. The WGA is not permitted to implement rules that conflict with the terms of the collective bargaining agreement between the studios and the WGA."
Said the WGA insider, "NBC is wrong. And we have made it clear."
So tonight Leno performed his monologue again on The Tonight Show. Is the WGA going to investigate how Jay is preparing that standup routine?
What makes the situation so delicate is that the WGA perceives Leno as very supportive of striking writers. He's been delivering food and drinks to the scribes walking the line for two months now. So the WGA, which has repeatedly made it clear it's picketing NBC and not Leno, may not want to make an example of a high-profile member like Jay for breaking its strike rules. Earlier today, a WGA spokesman told me: "We are not interested in a battle here between Jay and the Guild," and doubted there would be any probe. Now the WGA seems to be backing away from that position. "If our members decide that there's been a violation of the strike rules, there is a procedure that will be followed," the WGA insider told me.
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Well, Leno is doing his monologue again.
Well this comes as a big Duh to me.
Anyone familiar with the behavior and character of each side can hardly believe what NBC has claimed.
Tell me, who are you gonna believe, the greedy, lying, cheating companies or the WGA?
Who hired political smear merchants Fabiani and Lehane to launch an attack against Dave Young after THEY walked out? Who is now trying to paint Patrick Verrone as the bad guy to deflect attention from their abhorent behavior? Who in their right mind would believe the WGA leadership would consent to letting Jay break the rules and for whose benefit?
Who do you think are the professional liars in this?
Who walked away from the table twice? Who has been consistently lying to the public?
Who does the public support by 70%?
Who is deperately trying to change that? Isn’t that why you hire scumbags like Lehane, to change public opnion and the political landscape, it’s what they do.
What late night Talkshow cannot survive without a monologue? What Company do you think pressured or suggested Jay do this? What company benefits?
The answers are clear.
Again, Jay knows the rules. Jay is NOT a stand up guy, he is a Company whore. He has been warned, let’s see how he responds.
this is splitting hairs to a ridiculous degree. they should be concentrating on more important things.
who really cares how jay leno creates his monologue? that battle was lost when we got back on the air. use him as a public mouthpiece, don’t alienate him.
this doesn’t really bode well for the future, does it……
WHAT? I am heartsick to learn that we are disputing anything coming from he struck company that employs our biggest supporter ever. I hope we took time out to praise him to the skies and make it clear that NBC is forcing him to not only go along with this lie about the meeting, but also to continue to do a monologue.
This sucks. I will never walk a WGA picket line again. I won’t cross one, but I won’t support the WGA. Why bother? It’s clear they play favorites.
Jay has obviously decided to listen to those attorneys at NBC who are telling him it is legal to perform “his own writing”. (Note quotes.) Based on what the WGA stated (”strike rules reminder”) after the hosts announced they were returning to the air, it is clear to this observer that he and The Tonight Show are thumbing their noses at the WGA at this point.
If the intent of giving the deal to Worldwide Pants was as a strategic move to “encourage” NBC to either push AMPTP to return to the table or to reach a deal of its own, then it is necessary to oppose, in the strongest possible terms, the actions of The Tonight Show and Jay Leno in continuing to perform, by Jay’s own admission (Wednesday show) and clearly to anyone who knows anything about comedy writing (Thursday show), written material.
It now appears that the WGA does not know how to make effective strategic moves and is instead flailing about badly. The actions or lack thereof that the WGA ultimately determines to take in the handling of this Tonight Show issue will show the AMPTP/networks how sharp its how sharp its “teeth” are regarding obvious, admitted violations of strike rules. They will be watching this one closely. They may have even had a hand in provoking it just for this purpose. If the WGA doesn’t handle this issue properly, the strike will be considered a joke, no serious negotiation will take place, and writers will slowly but surely end this strike by returning to work, with nothing significant gained.
It’s sad to say it and will be much sadder to see it come to pass, but its the obvious conclusion to draw in looking objectively at the actions of the WGA, AMPTP/networks, and shows/hosts who pay lip service to the WGA cause but whose actions speak volumes otherwise.
Good for him! He is so much better than Letterman, without writers!
Let’s say it together: Jay Leno is a SCAB! (we point fingers) SCABBER JAY! SCABBER JAY!
I think Leno has revealed himself to be (just as his history demonstrated he would) the self-seving, company man, we knew he was all along.
All that, “I support the writers” stuff was pure bullshit. Leno cares only about himself and revels in his insider status. GE/NBC and Leno deserve one another.
what are the odds nikki that your being given disinformation just to lower the morale of the guild
The Union busted itself. The writers at Letterman should stay off work, until all the members go back to work.
What point are these lines, when some return and others do not.
I have to side with Leno on this one. It sounds like Verrone is changing his tune. Probably due to other memebers raising a stink that he didn’t anticipate. NBC sound extremely confident about what was said in the meeting. Something tells me Verrone has just been caught trying to flip flop.
As supportive as Jay was when the show wasn’t around, I can’t see him ignoring the demands of the WGA so he can do a barely funny monologue.
If it turns out that Verrone messed up and is trying to save face then you could see mass picket line crossings by writers who already feel that they are being betrayed because of the Letterman deal.
This sucks, because I want the writer’s to get everything they’ve asked for, but something tells me they may have made a colossal mistake.
Stay mellow folks.
Jay Leno giving a monologue at the beginning of his show is just a small thing.
Read the Op-ed in the LA Times today to get a little perspective.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-taylor3jan03,0,2812372.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail
Be well and see you on the line.
Unfortunately, to cater to Jay means there’s a tier system of celebrity within the Guild. It is sad but it is true. Jay the biggest supporter? I would venture to offer that Dave is by showing that a Production Company hasn’t got a problem with giving into the kind of contract the Guild is fighting for.
Jay shouldn’t have said a thing about writing his own monologue. He should have let it lie. All he did was expose a bad decision potentially made by the Guild and therefor has helped Big Media out.
Jay’s boasting has put everybody in a poor position, except NBC. NBC gets to sit back and watch the infighting.
Looks like Jay did a good job and much better the Letterman!
As for the WGA talking out of both side LOL look at what they pulled when they were talking about new media in the contract and now its about new media and how they want all reality show writers to be WGA and that was never on the table.
Seems like the WGA does not know what they are doing and need to get back to the table and work out a contract and get this town back to doing what we all miss and that is WORK!
WGA please drop your must have this and that and get back to the real job and that is getting a good contract for your writers!
when you look at the fact he refused to pay his staff until he was shamed into it, was the first real host to cross the picket line, has proven himself to be a huge hypocrite (re doughnut delivery) and now thumbing his nose at his own guild AND his own writing staff, it’s obvious that Leno is – not a good man. He doesn’t have good character and his values are lacking.
Is there any word about Colbert and stewart and how they plan to approach their shows? I am guessing they opt for the Conan O’Brien route of not trying too hard thus not showing up their own writers, which is the classy approach.
Who cares if Leno was allowed to write his own monologue or not? What is important is:
1. Leno still beat Letterman.
2. The networks are now making money again in late night. The Tonight Show is going to sell it’s ad time for the same amount as before but without the cost of it’s staff, so NBC’s strike burden is significantly reduced. The other networks have also reduced their strike burden. NBC and ABC probably make most of their profit from their morning and late night shows. The studios now see their negotiating position as stronger than before. The WGA’s leverage is now reduced.
3. The idea that the American public is behind the WGA and their cause is now officially dead. If the public cared about the strike and supported the WGA, Leno’s numbers would be down not up, due to the mass boycott of his non-guild approved show.
4. This new WGA strategy, if you can call it that, is failing. Guild members and many, many others continue to suffer due to the incompetence of the WGA leadership.
5. New people need to take over the negotiation from David Young and Pat Verrone.
Whom should I believe … Patrick Verrone or some sleezy NBC lawyers? Sadly enough, after months of being lied to by Verrone and his loutish sidekick David Young, I’m inclined to put more faith in the sleezy lawyers.
anon: “It now appears that the WGA does not know how to make effective strategic moves and is instead flailing about badly.”
I hate to say it, but I think you’re right. Winship of the WGAEast sends out a letter to his membership that essentially apologizes to Leno, O’Brien and Kimmel for deciding to picket their shows. The WGA makes a big to-do over its divide-and-conquer strategy to fracture the AMPTP, but only does a deal with World Wide Pants when it becomes clear that Letterman and Ferguson will go back on the air even without one; then the Guild refuses to do a deal with Dick Clark Productions because picketing the Golden Globes is more important than making good on its declared strategy.
What can the Guild do about Leno now? Any real disciplinary action will just force him to go fi-core. Doing nothing will send a message that not all WGA members are created equal. The best that they can probably muster is a lukewarm statement of disapproval, which won’t accomplish anything and will anger both Leno and the strikers.
I’m getting the impression that the Guild assumed the strike would run two weeks, tops, and that they wouldn’t have to deal with these situations. It’s pretty clear they didn’t plan adequately for them. It looks like the Guild has no end game.
I dunno… I’m sympathetic to Jay’s situation, but I like the guy. I would think though that as soon as it was understood definitively that he shouldn’t be writing, that he stop and do some improv with the audience or something… there’s a middle ground…
A note to Jake Hollywood:
Cool it. This is the entirely predictable outcome of the WGA decision to cut a side deal with Letterman.
We muddied the waters. We put Leno in an impossible position. What was he supposed to do? Let his own show go down the tubes, while ever-so-cool Dave gets a free pass?
And please, before someone out there starts in with the usual “shill” accusations, I’ve been a produced member of the WGA for over twenty years. I went through the ‘88 strike, and suffered tremendously. It took almost three years to regain what I’d lost in terms of momentum and fans in the studios, because so many of the executives who were championing me got fired.
I support the strike. The downloading/streaming issue is imperative. But I also believe that the Letterman deal was a huge tactical error – from allowing the studios to promote their wares, to allowing the networks to recoup their losses (Did you see the overnights on the late night shows? NBC and CBS are thrilled today,) to causing the kind of guild-splitting unrest that we’re starting to see as a result of this.
From my POV, the audience couldn’t give a damn about any of this. In the best of times, more watch Leno than Letterman. All they got from last night is that the hosts are back, there’s some kind of strike going on but it doesn’t seem to have had any effect, and tomorow’s jokes will be about Hillary and Huckabee.
Leno ain’t the problem here. And maybe you ought to think about it, before you continue cartwheeling across these pages screaming scab and shill.
But wait. Jay isn’t writing his own monologue. He’s getting some wannabes from the comedy clubs to do it for whatever he pays a pop. Of all people, Jay should support writers since he is not one.
Jay is a scab whose biggest concern is ceding his late night crown to a MUCH funnier Letterman.
The unfortunate reality is that Jay is a scab who is boosting NBC’s ratings by returning to the air and therefore prolonging the strike.
The rhetoric about Leno supporting the writers is so empty. He brought donuts to the picket line, and as far as I can tell, he then left. He didn’t picket or invest any time into the strike. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong.)
He paid his staff while they were off. That was a great thing, but it doesn’t constitute support for the writers.
So what is this vaunted “support”. You buy a few donuts and say “I support the writers” and then go and _write_ when you’re supposed to be on strike? That does NOT add up to support, and people need to stop playing that card.
I have said all along that the WGA leadership is out of its league battling the AMPTP. There have been many examples, but lets just examine this one…
If the WGA gave WWP an interim agreement to send writers back to work as a strategic manuever, how in the hell did they not consult Leno beforehand and discuss this strategy??? The only way this move could help the WGA is if Leno was on board to tank his show. Clearly thats not the case. Thats just a blatant strategic blunder and now not only is it not dividing the AMPTP, but it might be the start of a divide amongst writers.
I said from teh begining that I could positives and negatives for the WGA making the deal with WWP and I would reserve opinion as to whether or not it ultimately was a smart move or not. I still will wait to see the ratings numbers after several weeks, but it appears that the WGA severley limited the chance of this working at all by not having Leno on board with the plan from the beginning.
This will just push Jay to declare Fi-Core status.
He understands that his time on the Tonight Show, HIS Tonight Show, is limited and does not want to strike it away.
Jay is Jay. Trying to balance everything for everyone. Everyone knows that – why is anyone shocked?
And NBC is NBC, again not a big shock.
NBC will push the monologue issue to the brink and then come up with a modified format. Laughing all the way.
They are just so glad to have a fresh horse in the race right now – in late night TV there is no such thing as bad publicity. They even managed to interject themselves into the Iowa Presidential race. With a WINNER no less!
Really do not see a win in this either way for the WGA. What ever they decide will alienate some group of members. I am not sure if the “no publicity is bad publicity” holds true for Striking Guilds or Unions.
Getting into a pissing contest with Jay Leno is only going to deflect the eyes on the prize.
If the WGA really wants to keep everyone focused on the big issue, they need to drop fighting with Jay now.
Continued fighting with Leno will only serve to keep people focused on a small issue instead of the big issues that really matter.
Is this strike about New Media or about Jay writing his own monologues?
Let’s all step back a moment and learn one thing from Fabio and Labia, who are really good at what they do:
Simplify the message.
Infighting about this issue will get the WGA nowhere. I’m a writer, I know that we love details and nuances but the simple legal fact is that as a member of AFTRA (who is a variety performer as “host”) it is legal for Jay to perform his material, outside the juristdiction of the WGA. That’s a pre-existing contract for him. The WGA strike rules were created after Jay signed that AFTRA contract, and so Jay is in a bind in many, many ways. As an AFTRA member he has every right to perform his own material. If he did a stand up special for Comedy Central performing his stand up, he wouldn’t be paid as a WGA writer, he’d be paid as a variety performer, under an AFTRA contract.
This situation has many split hairs and the WGA should drop it. There is a reasonable case to be made for Jay’s position. He’s a supporter. Let’s not turn him and his bully pulpit against us.
We, as WGA members have walked a similar line with our sister union SAG, and have managed to get real solidarity out of it. We need to focus on the BIG PICTURE.
Look at what was most effective with the audience in last night’s Letterman broadcast, which was when Robin Williams started making fun of the idea that there is no money to be made from itunes. THAT the audience understood, and THAT is our fight. Nobody in America likes fat greedy selfish moguls who insult everyone’s intelligence by pretending that there is no money to be made, or shared, from the vast unfettered marketplace of the Internet, which is the future and everyone knows it.
It’s the Internet, stupid.
That’s the message that needs to be gotten out there, constantly, and Jay can, legally within his pre-existing contract, help us do it. Let’s not turn this into a civil war. That’s what NBC and the AMPTP would love to see us do.
I’m sure that Fabio and Labia are effectively guiding their hands in this. Let’s not play into them, shall we?
Drop it, move on, focus on the real fight, allow Jay to continue to be on our side.
Well, I support the WGA, but their story sounds kind of strained.
I think they gave Jay the go-ahead and then the powers that be at WGA decided this was a big mistake.
Glad to see the support for someone who paid staffers out of his own pocket being villified for the evil corporate demon he is. Down with the charitable jerk who supported his people and went back on the air to make sure that his showrunners got paid. Evil Evil Man.
OK, so if Jay broke the rules what could happen to him? Would he be fined?
Kicked out of the WGA?
I don’t think he would care if either happened.
Does someone know the answer??
Oh great – now were battling the big media conglomerates…and Jay Leno. We’re really moving things along here. So very excited to be striking so that we can determine whether Jay Leno is breaking guild rules. Anyone else scratching their heads?
I’ve been questioning the negotiating strategy of our leadership from the get go. Now I’m no longer questioning – I’ve concluded. We have lost our way.
Jay is scum. A scabby, scabby scum.
What? This is becoming a real joke…
Leno has a history of screwing people over, then trying to act like Mr. nice guy who’s shocked anyone would be angry at him
Leno and NBC have absolutely destroyed a golden legacy, The Tonight Show
Johnny Carson hated Leno and refused to appear on the show. Carson made very funny appearances on Letterman , whom he wanted as his successor. Also, Carson often sent Letterman jokes for the show.
As another commenter aptly said, Leno has always been a self-serving company man.
It is clear how bad of shape NBC is in from these desperate tactics. NBC. NBC was terrified Letterman would gain an edge and surpass Leno in ratings. They’re playing dirty – inventing stories that the WGA permitted Leno to write the monologue. They are probably paying writers under the table to write for Leno.
NBC also seems to have started a shill campaign on DHD – laughably writing in that Leno is America’s most precious tv personality, etc
Yo “Jake Hollywood,”
Calm down. Every post I read of yours has me more convinced you’re an elaborately disguised AMPTP shill posing as a hysterical and spineless guild member.
If I’m wrong, you’re still…hysterical and spineless. Do your guild a favor and take a break from the internet.
First of all, can someone tell me when this strike devolved into bickering about the late-night talk shows?
Secondly — and I’m sure many will dismiss me, like anyone else with a varying point of view, as a “shill” — Patric Verrone has lied to Leno several times. He lied when he told Leno that the Guild would not grant Worldwide Pants an interim agreement. He lied when he told Leno that the Guild would “look the other way” if Jay wrote his own monologues. He lied when he told Leno that the Guild would have no issues with SAG members guesting on his show. And that meeting on Monday was real, and Verrone absolutely said one thing and, later, denied it — I, and many others in the Guild who were there, heard him and believed him. In hindsight, we were fools.
At this point, Jay feels abandoned by the WGA, and he WAS one of our biggest supporters. Letterman spent zero time on a line. Same for Ferguson and Conan.
But, whatever, SAG is ultimately going to win this small battle for us when they tell all the Hollywood flacks tomorrow to only book their clients on Letterman or Ferguson. Verrone may “look the other way,” but no one will be looking at the struck shows once they’re reduced to reality-show hosts and carnival acts.
I question the wisdom of our leadership, but somehow we seem to be moving in the right direction. Here’s hoping the DGA doesn’t fuck anything up.
Unfortunately, it appears that Patrick Verrone has let his mouth outrun his brain once again (witness his vow that reality and animation would be part of the next contract – sorry, I thought the dispute was about new media). As an interested observer (husband of a striking writer who has faithfully walked the picket lines as we witness our savings begin to erode) and a proud member of the performing arts unions, I am also appalled at the invective being hurled at those across the table or those who dare to voice alternative opinions to the WGA line. This is business. Personal attacks and name calling will not serve any productive purpose, or get teh moguls back to the table any sooner.
Technology…it directly relates to the writer’s strike which is all about content delivery. Leno feels like a nice distraction from what the strike is really all about — the future. Leno and late night television are the past. Sorry if that’s a too painful truth.
In the next two weeks, there’s the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show followed a week later by MacWorld where Apple rolls out new products. It’s gadgets galore — also known as ways to deliver content — and every kid in America is paying attention. (I really hope the WGA is trying to reach out to writers in the gaming community.)
Lenovo is releasing a new laptop geared towards ‘mobile entertainment’ Meanwhile rumors Apple is releasing a new ultra light weight portable with a docking station. Eyes on Google who wants to bid on a spectrum license for wireless broadband — nationwide.
The key to getting everyone back to the table for talks IS the technology. At least, in my humble opinion.
Hey, I’ve been on strike for two months now and have been very, very supportive of my union. I’ve also brought donuts and coffee to the line to show my support. Does that mean I can go back to work too? Let’s be honest, folks, Leno is a strike breaker who brings us snacks. That’s all. Maybe if we got snacks from the AMPTP we’d be happy to get screwed by them too.
Leno has a history of screwing people over, then trying to act like Mr. nice guy who’s shocked anyone would be angry at him
Leno and NBC have destroyed a golden legacy, The Tonight Show. The show is an embarrassment.
Johnny Carson wanted Letterman as his successor
NBC was probably terrified Letterman would gain an edge and surpass Leno in ratings.
NBC also seems to have started a shill campaign on DHD about how great it is Leno came back and screw the unions.
Only one other person said it cleanly, so I have to add my vote: CHILL OUT, EVERYONE!
In the long run, there is nothing to gain about splitting hairs over Leno.
Giving WWP an interim agreement was a risky move, no doubt. The upside is that all late-night hosts did not go back to work, business-as-usual. We split their ranks.
The downside is that all late-night writers did not go back to work, business-as-usual. And if we let them, they (meaning the AMPTP) will split our ranks.
The larger point is that WE (the WGA) voted for this leadership by an overwhelming majority, and WE voted for this strike by a similar majority. We need to trust both decisions, and not micro-armchair-backseat-quarterback every damn thing the leadership does.
To quote Benjamin Franklin – a guy who knew a thing or two about resistance – “We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.”
I have been a monologue writer for one of the involved hosts. I find it hard to believe that Jay wrote all those jokes himself. Someone on the inside at the Tonight show who is sympathetic to the WGA needs to leak or post where Leno is getting these jokes from.
One man, who has to spend his day preparing for the guest interviews, is not writing the two to three hundred jokes from which 25 are typically chosen. Simply can’t be.
“He wanted the guild to get the message out that he supported the writers.”
Hey, Jay? The guild is not your personal PR firm. They have other matters that need their attention right now, honey, and the whole wide world does not completely revolve around you. If you want to get the message out that you support the writers, there’s a simple, easy way that you can do it yourself–support the writers! Stop scabbing! That would work wonders. If you don’t want to be portrayed as the bad guy, don’t BE the bad guy.
And what I think Patric said was, ‘You’re taking one for the team. And we understand that.’ ”
Okay, and this is the account from our side? Is there such a thing as strike-induced insanity? Gosh, I hope Leno doesn’t crack up completely under the strain of all he’s sacrificed–maybe the weight of all the mash notes and flowers and candy our people have sent will crush him. And of course, there’s the mental strain involved in figuring just how many strike rules it’s humanly possible to blatantly violate. And I hear that he thought about showing up with Krispy Kreme’s dayolds but bravely chose instead to go with the fresh ones, those cost like $3.
“This is the entirely predictable outcome of the WGA decision to cut a side deal with Letterman.”
Oh, bs. The WGA decided to cut a side deal with Letterman BECAUSE all the other hosts were crossing. Get the chronology right. We didn’t make the deal until long after NBC made the announcement.
“What was he supposed to do? Let his own show go down the tubes, while ever-so-cool Dave gets a free pass?”
Um, hello? First off, Leno basically no longer has a show. NBC is taking it away and giving it to Conan. Second, this is a strike. We’re worrying about our next meal, and we’re supposed to care that Leno can’t take the fact that he might slip .3 or .4 behind Letterman for a few months in pursuance of a strategy to end this quicker? Well, gosh, if Leno’s self-esteem is based entirely on getting a 5.2, then we’ll just have to hand $10 million dollars a month to a struck company and deal with the fact that it’s going to lengthen the strike for the rest of us. Our livlihoods are one thing, Leno’s fragile self-esteem is something else. In a strike, everyone sacrifices, but Leno isn’t just anyone. If he actually supported the strike, he’d get over this pathological obsession he has with beating Letterman and figure out that for the next few months, it just doesn’t matter and there are more important issues at stake. What would they do to him if his ratings slip for a while–give the show to Conan harder? We want his ratings to slip to put pressure on NBC to give him back his writers plus end the strike faster, doesn’t that help him in the long run? Everybody else is under the same restrictions as jay, most of us are far worse off financially than Jay, and if we did what Jay was doing we’d be removed from the guild. Some excuse, cry me a river.
“He lied when he told Leno that the Guild would “look the other way” if Jay wrote his own monologues. He lied when he told Leno that the Guild would have no issues with SAG members guesting on his show.”
Is jay a complete moron? Look, I get that the guild has been sucking up to him, coddling him, babying him like there’s no tomorrow, for some unexplained reason. But again, this is a STRIKE! It is not Jay’s personal therapy session to work out his abandonment issues or his need to be liked. Even if someone did say such crazy things, why would Jay believe them? It’s a strike. Why in the hell would he believe that his show wouldn’t be picketed, or he’d be allowed to do a monologue when it was already pointed out that it’s forbidden? Because we just like him so much we’d rather make him feel safe and secure than conduct this strike effectively? That makes no sense. He understands that the only way we can gain leverage is by disrupting revenue streams to struck companies, correct? I’m sorry, but this isn’t that complicated. This doesn’t pass the smell test.
seriously, can’t you hear the amptp guys sitting in a room and chuckling over verrone’s little late night vietnam?
I think everyone needs to stop bickering over this and leave it to Jay Leno to decide what he wants to do with his monologue now that the WGA’s and NBC’s positions have been made clear. If he truly supports the writers as much as he says he does, he will stop writing monologues and do something else to fill the time. If he decides to keep writing, everyone needs to just shrug it off and move on with things that really matter.
To WGA members: you didn’t go on strike to keep Jay Leno from doing his monologues. You went on strike to get a fair deal, and that’s what I hope you’re focusing on. Don’t let a bunch of bored people bickering at each other in the comments section of a blog distract you from the real goal.
When I listened to Leno’s monologue last night, I didn’t think he was thumbing his nose to the WGA, I thought he was publicly telling everyone that he wrote the monologue without other writers (WGA or otherwise) because he felt responsible to the other 160 people in the crew. Even that statement, I don’t think was intended to place blame on anyone, but to say that this was a tough decision. I tried to catch as many late night opeing monologues as I could, and I thought that Leno did the best jobs of supporting their writers and the strike. Kimmel was another standout in that he supported the other hosts.
While ratings were up for both Letterman and Leno, compared to prime time ratings, neither of theirs look very impressive. And by that I mean that where this strike is going to hurt the networks most is prime time, especially with February sweeps starting in less a month.
Leno has also managed to bring some exposure to the strike that I hadn’t expected. Every news story I saw on Wed and Thurs talked about Hackabee crossing the WGA picket line. A few mentioned Hillary’s cameo. My point is, Letterman is expected to be the great hero and mouthpiece for the strike. I think that Leno could do the same. As long as he’s not using other WGA writers or bringing in scabs. As long as he’s writing his own stuff, let him work for you guys.
Max, Patric Verrone lied when he told Leno the Guild would not grant WWP an interim agreement? Uh….what the %^&* was Leno doing trying to interfere in negotiations between the WGA and a company he’s not a part of in the first place? And what the $%^& was Verrone doing letting Leno in on private negotiations with a separate party and granting him veto power over negotiating committee decisions?
I’ve never heard of anything so self-centered and power-crazed. So you’re saying this realy happened, and the part that concerns you is…Verrone wasn’t telling the truth? I think the better question is what could possibly make Verrone think he was doing the right thing if he he had been telling the truth. Unless Leno become the supreme ruler of the universe while I wasn’t looking, if that’s true, we’ve got some serious problems. Anyone want to chip in for a writing course for Alan Rosenberg? Please, Alan, become a hyphenate.
Of course, you’re also parroting the line that someone who’s rubbing the guild’s nose in his strike rule violation and was the first to cross the line is our biggest supporter because he showed up with a pizza and, presumably, because he was finally guilt-tripped, kicking and screaming, into paying his staff long after all the other hosts, so maybe I’ll take your account with a grain or two of salt, but study up anyway Alan.
The real test for Leno will be if the strike continues. Three or four weeks from now, or maybe less, either Jay’s going to be recycling his oldest jokes or he’s just gonna run out of steam. And it won’t be pretty.
The other thing he’s going to run short of is name guests. There’s only a finite number of Republicans too stupid to realize they’re crossing a picket line.
And BTW they didn’t print it but I told the LA Times reporter interviewing us on the line yesterday that we love Leno so much we wish NBC would give him his writers back.
I watched Leno and Conan tonight. Their shows were very funny. I don’t think America misses you writers.
Leno is using writers to write his monologue.
If Leno gets to write material, it sure diminishes Letterman’s efforts to get a deal signed. It’s also curious that Conan, Kimmel, and even Carson Daly “got it” in terms of not doing a monologue or comedy bits, but Jay has carved out some kind of exception. Sure, he’s between a rock and a hard place in terms of his Tonight Show gig. But aren’t they “retiring” him next year? Isn’t he signing on with Fox, ABC, or syndication afterwards? Doesn’t he make way more millions from his outside gigs? Out of all of the latenight hosts, Leno should be the one who feels the least pressure to kowtow to corporate demands. And yet…
Jay Leno is performing writing services for a struck company.
Remind me again why I am sitting here unemployed?
Why am I living off my savings?
The WGA has a MAJOR problem here and my faith in our leadership hangs in the balance.
As an AFTRA member I can definitely say that not once, on any of the numerous occasions on which I have performed comedy on television, have I been compensated as a writer for the material I have performed by myself. The WGA takes no interest in the writing process of comedians, and we are not considered writers by their standards. If Mr. Leno’s WGA contract supercedes this, than that is another thing entirely, but I think he can certainly argue that everything he is doing is covered by his AFTRA contract as a performer, and not his WGA contract as a writer. Even if I were a WGA member, they would still not be covering my standup material. I think Leno can argue that this is the case here as well. I am not familliar with the WGA’s rules. Perhaps I’m wrong. I am open to being enlightened if this is the case.
Either way, I hope the writers’ get what thet want.
Gavin,
it’s Dave Young and Patric Verrone, not David and Pat. If you’re going to feign personal familiarity at least get the names right. Also, the fact that Leno’s ratings beat Letterman’s for one night (or two, for that matter) does not more generally indicate that the American public no longer supports the WGA. Repeated opinion polls (with sample sizes larger than 1 or 2) have shown solid support for the WGA v the AMPTP, not the WGA v Jay Leno. I’m guessing you failed stats class?
Rick
Are you kidding me?
How long do you want to claim conspiracy theory? Conan O’Brien is doing a barely adequate job of floundering (and I say that as a huge fan of Conan’s), and Jay is showing up, written material in-hand.
Anybody ever suspect that it’s not NBC behind this, but instead the ego of a Late Night host who’s afraid to try as hard as Conan does?
I’m just saying, Conan’s following rules, doing his best, trying hard on-camera, and barely succeeding. You think Jay’s got that integrity? Of course not.
However, HE IS Jay Leno. And amidst all this stink, he’s helped define that line in the sand:
Jay will do a monologue. Written or not, that’s where he stands. It makes him look good. WGA, the ball’s in your court. Do your worst (as a displaced member of the production community, I know you will. Jackasses.).
“As long as he’s not using other WGA writers or bringing in scabs. As long as he’s writing his own stuff, let him work for you guys.”
Just an observer, I’m sure your heart is in the right place, but a) he is using scab jokes for that monologue b) even if he weren’t, which, btw, he is, he’s scabbing himself by writing for his show, and we can’t turn a blind eye to violations just because the violator is personable, wealthy, and famous, that’s a really unfair double standard c) bringing “attention” to the strike isn’t really helping. NBC doesn’t care at all that attention is being brought to the strike as long as it’s offset by the vast sums of money the late night shows bring in. Leno’s audience isn’t going to persuade NBC to settle, in fact by watching the show they’re bringing in revenue that’s going to allow NBC to hold out longer. Leno can’t help us by bringing attention to the strike (neither can letterman, btw), and as long as he’s violating the strike rules, which he’s doing in an effort to make his show more appealing and make more money for NBC, he’s hurting us.
The only way he can help us is by doing what Conan appears to be doing, trying to tank his own ratings by booking subpar guests, adhering to the strike rules, and trying to make his show as unwatchable as possible. That might encourage NBC to make a deal, what Jay’s doing sure as hell won’t.
It is so clear to all except the very naive, that making a side deal with WWP was a very bad stategic error. The obvious concern over writers being pitted against writers seems to have been missed by union execs for some reason. I have to wonder what real world model they based thier decision on.
One of the reasons lawsuits (a form of public dispute) are to be avoided is because of the way they reveal damaging private matter.
What is important regarding fracases such as the current Leno/Verone matter is how they publically reveal many of the internal faults of the guild.
Therefore, it is not a trivial matter, whatsoever, as other commentators have opined.
From personal experience (and shared stories from fellow writers) the WGA definitely is a tiered system. Writers’ claims for non-payment, for example, are often handled in an entirely discriminatory manner. (e.g. a claim by Akiva Goldsman, if it were to exist, would be expedited. A lesser writer’s will often be effectively ignored, buried by untrained clerics’ procedural inexperience, or worse).
Arbitration procedures have long been suspect to questions as to the way in which they are handled, giving unfair preferences, at times. (Only recently is the authorship of arbitrated screenplays disguised). Worse, there is no true recourse for writers who feel they have been unfairly treated. By being a WGA member they sign away the normal procedural rights they would have in the legal system (for copyright infringement, etc.
And, to make matters worse, as an arbiter-member (I have done my share) we are forbidden to ever speak out against arbitrations we have participated in (and have found to be unfairly handled procedurally) or risk losing our membership.
Many members quietly state to each other that, in effectm ‘the guild is owned/controlled by the studios’. Obviously, as a generality, this makes no sense. (The strike is an example). But in certain ways there is merit to this. The recent class action suit (against the Guild by some of its own members) regarding residual buy-outs outside of the U.S. is evidence in support of this.
Frankly, I believe the Guild isn’t controlled by any group. That’s the problem. It’s a mess. It’s out of control (and, perhaps hasn’t been in control for a very long time, if ever). I’m also a member of the DGA, and I have not felt similar worries and concerns.
So, perhaps, in some way inept events such as the Leno/Letterman matter, in addition to the very early calling of the strike while West coast negotiation was on-going (an event which never should have occurred – likely triggered by the loose-cannon WGAE which apparently jumped the gun) will reveal to the members the house-cleaning that needs to occur if this Guild is really to function for its members.
In other words, maybe all this drama (over ‘little things’ like late night waivers, etc.) is the necessary straw to break the back of a psychologically troubled (and, therefore, troubling) camel.
I’ll keep picketing, but I won’t stop thinking about all of this… and wondering.
I began reading this post:
Who cares if Leno was allowed to write his own monologue or not? What is important is:
1. Leno still beat Letterman.
2. The networks are now making money again in late night. The Tonight Show is going to sell it’s ad time for the same amount as before but without the cost of it’s staff, so NBC’s strike burden is significantly reduced. The other networks have also reduced their strike burden. NBC and ABC probably make most of their profit from their morning and late night shows. The studios now see their negotiating position as stronger than before. The WGA’s leverage is now reduced.
3. The idea that the American public is behind the WGA and their cause is now officially dead. If the public cared about the strike and supported the WGA, Leno’s numbers would be down not up, due to the mass boycott of his non-guild approved show.
4. This new WGA strategy, if you can call it that, is failing. Guild members and many, many others continue to suffer due to the incompetence of the WGA leadership.
5. New people need to take over the negotiation from David Young and Pat Verrone.
My first reaction was that it was by far the most cogent post up to that point in the thread, though there were others that made good and similar points as well. And then, I got to the commenter’ name.
As usual, it seems that Gavin Polone has the tightest handle on the situation. Because so many writers hold him in disdain his views are unpopular, but his predictions are uncannily on target with only the rarest and most minute exceptions. Can anyone honestly deny that? And this thread, finally, seems to have comments that are much more on point.
Since when, in America, is it a crime to question leadership? It is one of the key foundations of our country.
I am all for loyalty – when it is deserved. I would love to be able to say that I support the tactics of the WGA, but I have yet to find reason to. The WGA leadership has undermined the negotiations with bad decisions and inept strategum. This is a business negotiation. Not a war of words and might vs. right.
I think the controvery over Jay Leno is having an unanticipated positive effect. Writers are now beginning to look at the big picture rather than getting obsessed with minutia, and vendetta inspired vernacular and strategy.
Every day that the WGA leadership stays intact and unchalllenged is another day the writers lose ground that can likey not be regained. While there still remains the possibility of damage control, why not take it? If you are in this to win, seek leaders and negotiators who have a track record of winning.
Rah Rah speeches, blind loyalty and solidarity chants aren’t going to end this strike.
Please, writers, put emotion and bitterness aside (I know that is difficult considering some of the tactics of the AMPTP but it must be done) and embrace a clear business perspective and the tactics that that would entail.
They didn’t hear Leno say, “I’m writing my monologue”. They heard him say, “I’m doing my monologue”?
WTF did they think Leno meant?
Obviously, the Guild leadership is spinning this one. Great. Now we have a face-off between two liars — the WGA, and the AMPTP.
May the best liar win!!!
Jay can serve food and drinks to the striking writers on the picket line, but if he really supported them, as opposed to just acting like he supports them, wouldn’t he steer completely, 100 percent clear of anything even barely resembling a monologue?
Even Ellen did that much. And, she got ragged on even for that!
So, does Jay support or not support the writers?
Or, is he taking whatever is the Path of Least Resistance happens to be at any given moment?
Unless the membership changes its mind and demands a change from the Guild, I believe this event will be looked back on in five years and will be seen as what a badly-handled opportunity ended up screwing any chance of getting a real deal because once someone as visible and with as many booking slots to fill as Jay Leno ignores (and flaunts) the rules by writing, using writers, and performing material that would normally be written, it is only a matter of time until others follow. Unfortunately, WGA blew the “strategic value” of its decision badly and AMPTP/networks will see this and know it is only a matter of time until the chips fall to their side of the table. This is business, not personal, and regardless that Jay has spoken about his need for and support of writers, his actions speak very differently. DGA will come in and do a deal and WGA will get stuck with it. Unfortunately unless the pressure is turned up quickly to not allow any SAG crossing to struck shows thereby putting real pressure on NBC/Universal, this strike will only damage those who continue to pursue it. The Letterman/WWP deal had the potential to create a side-deal with NBC. Giving Leno a pass is encouraging them to not do so. Only way is to do whatever can be done to make Leno’s show into a [temporary] ratings disaster for NBC, and unfortunately I believe the WGA powers that be have decided this is not an option they are willing to pursue. No matter what is said, the (non)action of the WGA shows that it is in fact “looking the other way”.
I am sorry for those in the Guild who counted on their leadership to pursue this in the best way for their entire membership, not a small segment who doesn’t want to offend Jay Leno. This is business.
Some of the comments above are obviously WRITTEN bu WGA WRITERS!!! How dare they WRITE during the strike.
Oh wait, they’re not WRITING, they’re TYPING…
My bad.
Just curious – what exactly does Jay Leno gain by being a member of the writer’s union? I really hope all this bullshit is over dental insurance.
If Leno’s material is funny, he didn’t write it.
I don’t watch Leno on a regular basis but like many others, I tuned in (Tivo’d) to see how different it would be, how the show would suffer without it’s talented writing staff.
Can anyone see any difference between last nite and last September?
The whole beginning of the show up to the introduction of the first panel guest IS WRITTEN.
And who’s writing those guest intro’s that Jay is obviously reading off cue cards!
OK, call him a scab. Anyone in their right mind believe he’s writing all that stuff himself? PLEASE!
And strangely, none of his writers has had peep to say about Jay having kneecapped them.
My theory:
NBC, in order to “save the franchise” is paying Jay’s writing staff under the table.
“Why should you, Jay Fu*king Leno, be at a disadvantage because of some dumb strike?”
Dem Scab-O-Fax machines be a-hummin’.
Jay is all about Jay. Just because he is the whining crybaby he was portrayed to be in The Late Shift, doesn’t mean he’s dumb enough to think, that by putting on an unaltered all scab all the time show and thus helping NBC, they’ll reconsider booting his ass next year.
“Hey FOX…Check out my ratings!!!”
As for the WGA:
Start a war without a real plan in place?
Prosecute the little guy while looking the other way when it comes to the rich & powerful?
When did you go Republican?
This has had to have pissed off Do-The-Right-Thing Dave.
It sure seems to have pissed off a lot of WGA members
Your doin a heck of a job Verroney
This week may very well end up being known as the week the WGA blew the strike. I totally saw and agreed with the WGA’s philosophy of setting up a side deal with WWP to try and split the other side… in retrospect it has totally backfired — the networks are now making money on late night. Letterman has his full show and his writers are getting PAID. Now either the WGA is looking the other way for Leno OR is just too spineless to take him on. If I were a writer I would be so upset at the people who are getting to go back to work while I didn’t — that for some of celeb status if the rules are broken, not only are they not enforced but not even a fight is put up.
I don’t blame Jay at all for what he is doing (other than if he is paying writers) — Letterman has writers — it’s only natural he’s going to want to do a quality monologue so his show doesn’t go down in flames while Letterman gets his audience. But that has to so burn some of the writers’ on the lines — whose shows are or have gone down in flames due to the strike.
The WGA leadership has shot itself in the foot and is now bleeding from a slow wound. They’ve got no leverage for negotiation and from what I’ve read it sounds like this strike will be over when the DGA finalizes a contract — and when they do, what will all of this have been for?? The writer’s could have just gone non-contract and waited for the DGA — now they’ve lost more than what they are supposed to gain over the next 3 years from the new deal — how does that make sense at all??? The general public generally supports the writers, but they’re not going to turn off Jay or Dave out of principle, or any of the other shows that replace union shows — the only thing that will matter to the public is the quality of the shows. If I were a WGA member right now I would be so upset at my leadership — but hindsight’s 20/20 — they took a risk, it just backfired instead of paying off.
I wish you writer’s luck because I agree with your need to be paid for net distribution (not your grab for reality and animation tho). It seems like luck is now irrelevant. This strike will last til the DGA signs an agreement. After that the rank and file will demand a settlement at those terms or threaten to go fi-core. How many writer’s are going to be asking themselves ‘this is what we went on strike and lost so much for?’ once they realize the whole strike was pretty much POINTLESS in terms of their long term gain. If anything once the strike is settled one way or the other, like someone else said so many writers are going to be set back in their careers because of it — projects cancelled, connections lost.
Unfortunately for you writers, at this point your leadership has no choice — if they were to give in now the producers would know you caved and try to give you a worse deal than they already offered I’m sure. You guys are going to have to wait this strike out until the DGA gets their contract — for no real reason. I guess they could end the strike and go non-contract for a few months but that would require them admitting that they lost. Heaven forbid they do that and let the writer’s get paid rather than making the writer’s suffer for their egos.
Are you kidding me???? Jay Leno isn’t suppose to “write” his monologue but he can “do” his monologue?? Does this sound ridiculus to anyone? I think Leno’s show was better in the last 2 days WITHOUT the writers.
America is sick of this kind of nonsense. You are not in touch with reality. Maybe you should drive through the “fly over” part of the country and find out what it’s like in the real world outside of Hollywood.
I could care less if the writers ever come back. When people get sick of the reruns and reality shows, maybe they will start spending their time doing something constructive like play with their kids.
Nikki, please get this straight… The guild did NOT issue Worldwide Pants and INTERIM AGREEMENT. They signed a full three year contract… Nothing interim about it… So please refer to Worldwide Pants as having struck a full contract with the WGA, making them the first signitory to our new MBA… David G.
“I find it hard to believe that Jay wrote all those jokes himself. One man, who has to spend his day preparing for the guest interviews, is not writing the two to three hundred jokes from which 25 are typically chosen. Simply can’t be.” – wga comedy writer
Did WGA writers create Jay’s material when he began his career as a stand-up comedian? I seriously doubt it. And if WGA comedy writers are so great, why are only 25 jokes chosen from 200 or 300? Maybe Jay has time to do all he has to do because he only write 25 jokes and uses all of them.
Oh, by the way, I’m writing my own comments, but fortunately I live in a “right-to-work” state.
Leno is a 1st class scab. His character was exposed before he got the job, in his own admission he was hiding in a closet to overhear executives on who was going to replace Johny Carson what kind of moron does that? He brags he has never spent any tonight show money in his whole career, just spending his other money from weekend shows at comedy places. No kids just Mavis his wife, what a waste of a life and resources.
When all is said and done, only one fact remains: whatever action the union takes now will probably be seen by a considerable number as being “wrong.”
If you turn a blind eye to Leno’s antics, then he not only gets what he wants, but what’s to stop all the other hosts of late night shows to start writing their own material or having someone ghostwrite it? There’ll be a snowball effect of ignoring the union’s strike rules and the union will look impotent.
If you come down on him, then the AMPTP and NBC (and possibly even Leno himself) will play this “We were lied to by the WGAW president” line for all it’s worth, and the WGA looks like the bad guy who deals in bad faith.
It’s a lose-lose scenario for the union…
WGA could issue a public statement that Leno’s in violation of the strike rules and leave it at that… for now. Does anyone know how quickly the union has to act against a member who’s in violation of the strike rules?
My point being this… maybe there could be a meeting between the union, all the late night talk show hosts whose shows are being struck, and possibly even the media (no more of this closed-door crap where it’ll boil down to one side’s word against the other when there’s a dispute) in which it’s made clear that the union will be taking action against anyone who violates strike rules… just not now.
Will it work? *shrug* But from where I sit, it looks like pretty much the only option on this topic.
As “WGA Writer with Business Sense” said above, the real issue is new media. Don’t allow NBC to split the union over this Leno business. Regardless of how you feel about what Leno did, let’s all agree to drop the matter FOR NOW and focus on the real issue of fair compensation. As far as any of us know, there’s nothing that says the union has to take swift and immediate action now. Wait… allow time to clear away our passions, leaving only cold reason in its place. And then act.
One last thing: to avoid any possible misunderstandings like this from cropping up in the future, pay for a court reporter or legal secretary to take down lengthy notes or a transcript of ANY meeting between the WGA and other parties (like the AMPTP, NBC, Leno’s people, martians from outer space…). That way you can’t fall into the they said/we said trap that caught the leadership this time…
The union may be technically correct but it sure makes them look like a bunch of idiots when they say Leno can do a monologue but he can’t write it down. Is he allowed to think about it ahead of time and memorize it? Can he use an Etch-a-Sketch?
To “ohplease” –
First of all, Jay wasn’t trying to interfere with the WWP negotiations; Verrone offered up his lie with no provocation.
Secondly, please acknowledge that the WGA leadership has withstood a number of missteps. Including absurd, and childlishly naïve, sessions with Leno, Kimmel, Conan, Stewart and Colbert
I support this strike with all my heart, yet it’s saddening to see our struggle reduced to the level of sophomoric bickering. Fuck!
I support the WGA and all the writers 100% — a lot of my friends are in the guild and are hurting right now. But I personally feel the moment ALL the late night hosts hit the airwaves Wed. night that the strike was over and the WGA had lost.
The networks are getting what they want and the public is responding. Ratings are going up the the late night shows, new shows, although reality or canned scripted are appearing and the public is happy to see new stuff on the air. If the ratings for these new shows are respectable it’s going to spell more trouble for the strike.
I want the writers to get their due for DVD and for Internet/streaming (I’m in New Media and I know the kind of profits that can be had online) but in the long run I have a nasty, nasty feeling that the DVD residuals will go no higher than 5 cents and that Internet will be a lost cause. I pray that it doesn’t, you deserve it, but my gut feelings tell me otherwise.
When the WGA screwed Jay over by making an exception to Dave — HIS COMPETITION — what did they expect him to do? Roll over and let his show get destroyed?
Jay was a stand-up comedian for two decades… he can easily come up with five minutes of material every night, probably without actaully writing anything down!
99% of America could care less about Hollywood writers, they just want their entertainment. The WGA lost this battle the moment they made a smoke-filled room deal with Dave.
So, Leno says I am going to be doing my monologue and it didn’t occur to him to ask Jay to clarify because he was tired? The WGA just did a hand waving “okay” and let it go? Now its Leno’s fault because he wasn’t more specific. Should he have been? Maybe. But they sure as hell should have asked what he meant.
And how is cutting seperate deals going to help the cause in the long run? Its not. Dave caved because he knew that he couldn’t compete with Leno sans monologue. Same thing for Ferguson, who is great at delivery and a funny man but is untested in the unscripted vs. unscripted department.
If a few more studios cave in but the rest stand firm, it will have the reverse effect for the WGA. As those who can’t go back to work sit getting hungry with bills piling up watch others in the guild working and getting paid it will destroy loyalty. Unions have power because they remain united. Divide yourselves into the getting paid/not getting paid at your own risk.
Also, cut the deal already. Instead of demanding guarantees on unproven income sources hammer out the DVD and electronic download sales (such as iTunes) and write into the agreement to visit the issue in 2 years when the tech has had time to develop into something that is actually profitable.
From the outside, the WGA looks like a bunch of disorganized children throwing a tantrum and making demands without any understanding of economics, marketing, and tech development.
Besides times have changed since ‘88. The top TV shows are Dancing with the Stars and American Idol. Lesser seen but still well known non-scripted cable shows also are out there. In addition to attracting viewers it offers the late night people a wide range of folks to tap into. Mythbusters, Survivorman, and the Deadliest Catch from Discovery Channel; all well known but not highly watched and unscripted in nature. Paula Dean, Emeril, Alton Brown, and Rachel Ray — all well known and unscripted.
The longer the strike goes on the more likely you are to drive viewers to the various basic cable channels for such entertainment. Some of these shows will hold viewers cutting down network profits from scripted television and in turn cutting into budgets used to pay the writers they will blame rightly or wrongly for the loss in viewership.
I supported the WGA in the beginning, but as their demands have evolved I have lost respect for them and what they are trying to do. I am not alone. Be careful you don’t burn all those PR bridges and leave yourself completely isolated.
The more you guys go after Jay the more the rest of America could care less about the writers guild. The rest of America knows that when you agree to work for someone you owe the an honest days labor but you also owe them a certain amount of loyalty. You don’t have to work for people if you don’t like the conditions. You don’t have to work for someone ifyou don’t like the pay. No one twisted your arm to take those jobs. I bet eevreyone of you was thrilled when you were first hired as writers. Imagine being paid to do something you obviously have talent for.
The more you guys whine the more I am disgusted with the lot of you. I wirk for a living. I know going in that if I come up with something that makes the company I work for a lot of money they are under no obligation to reward me beyond my salary. However they also know if I get unhappy I can go work elsewhere. This is the balance the rest of the real world works with and understands. I do think that you have legitimate issues, however a strike only works to errode your support.
Again I ask — where were all you people when Letterman and Carson were scabbing during the ‘88 strike? Why is Leno the only bad guy here? Is it because he isn’t hip? Or that he’s consistently beating Letterman in the ratings?
What the Union is doing to Jay Leno is not fair. Both Leno and Letterman are members, but they give Letterman back his writers (not ready to concede that as an advantage considering some of the junk they produce, but anyway) and then they are going to hassle Leno for writing his own monologue? I think they are just mad because Leno by himself apparently is a better writer than Letterman’s “staff of professional writers” (perhaps one of the “professionals” can correct whether the period at the end of this sentence should be inside the closing quotation mark).
First off…
1. Your union management is still getting paid while your on strike. Why don’t they donate their “full” salary to the picket line.
2. Why are you blaming Jay when union management cut a side deal with Dave. That’s a little odd isn’t it? What competent union manager would allow 1/2 of the best late night shows to return?
3. For the union members writting here are you allowed to right for this show? Better check the regs.
Second…
1. You should demand at the next meeting that union management donate 100% of their salary to the line. Now that would be supporting the line. But they won’t do it.
2.Dave’s special pass should be cancelled so both Dave and Jay can go back home till this is over. But again the Union won’t do it.
3. If union manangement had a meeting with Jay and knew he was going to give a monologe then they knew and he’s not a scab. You guys throw the word scab around like it has no meaning.
Finally,
If union and management would act in good faith you folks wouldn’t look so ridiculous. Both of you.
Send it to arbitration and get this resolved so the corps can make money and in turn pay your salary. It’s interesting how you criticise the “dirty” corporations but you’ll go right back to work for them after the strike. If you were true to yourself you would quit and start your own company, but that another comment for another time.
Best wishs.
I guess Leno will have to drop his monologue to appease the WGA. He won’t even be able to speak, because anything he says would be his own material, which apparently, under union rules, he is not allowed to use.
So, Jay will resort to performing mime on his show. His first piece will be entitled “Help, I’m trapped inside a stupid invisible box built by the WGA.”
Yes, that’s a ridiculous scenario. Almost as ridiculous as a union restricting the constitutionally-protected right of freedom of speech.
Letterman praisers/ Leno bashers need to keep in mind one thing. Letterman did NOT agree to the WGA demands. He just agreed to take whatever deal is there when the dust settles. That is not the same thing as showing the producers that their demands are not unreasonable. Leno would have gladly done the same thing.
There is nothing brave in the slightest about what Letterman did. There’s no reason to position it as such.
Mike Binder
Everyone still perfectly sanguine about having a couple of comedy writers with no operational business experience negotiate a nine figure new media deal instead of hiring a professional like Ken Ziffren? Ok, good, just checking…
I hope the WGA enjoys their “public support” while it lasts. If they go after Leno for doing a simple monologue they can kiss it goodbye and — quite honestly — it’s all they have left.
Anything that Leno writes, with or without writers, is better than the ubiquitous anti-faith diatribes that Bill Maher tries to pass off as ‘commentary’ at every available opportunity. Yawn. At least Leno’s & Letterman’s stuff isn’t just vengeful agenda-based output.
I sympathize with the writers. They produce much of the fuel a huge business empire uses but get a comparatively small cut of the pump profit, so to speak. If they can pry a few more coins from the tightly-clasped palms of the carnivorous apes that are entertainment executives, more power to them. It isn’t as if the executives at NBC or CBS would deserve a whole lot more than minimum wage in an ideal world.
The comments on this article are much more interesting than the article itself, but then the article really only tells us that the Writers Guild is surprisingly inept. For a group of creative people, they certainly boxed themselves in negotiating with Letterman in the manner they did. And trying to split hairs that because Leno credits himself as a writer on the show as well as producer means that as a performer he cannot write his own material is laughably, transparent desperate. He was a standup, if anyone recalls, and a good one at that. I watched him from the same stage do a homecoming pep rally at my alma mater a few years (ehmm) back, and probably three-quarters of what he did was off-the-cuff.
Finally, to the posters who assert that Letterman is soooo much funnier than Leno: I must disagree. Leno actually is a comedian. Dave has an entertaining style and an obviously well developed dry wit, but he strikes more as a game show host (with apologies to Sygorney Weaver and Bill Murray and their writers) as much as anything else. He frequently rides the same joke well past its prime and all of the faux-inside humor between he and Regis, et al, is a little tired. If he did one Dan Quayle joke he did a hundred thousand. The guy hasn’t been original for years and it is obvious he relies on his writers much more so than Leno. If anything, he needs new writers.
The WGA needs the blow by this entire issue. They should just say that there was a miscommunication, what’s been done is done, and that he’d hope that from here on in Leno would stick to the WGA’s “No Monologue” rule. Wasting another second trying to explain what happened (or cop pleas like “it was at the end of a really really long meeting”) is not only a waste of time but it is yet another no-win situation for the Guild. If they prove Leno did write his monologue, what happens?
It’s a pointless battle that will only make it seem like this is a war that can’t be won.
Fact: Verrone said he’d look the other way if Jay wrote his monologues.
What is Verrone doing? I’m quickly losing faith in our guild’s leadership as they continue to flip-flop, lie, and squander rank and file’s faith in them. If they can’t handle these trivial late night matters how can I assume they’re doing the right thing in negotiations? Get your act together Verrone and Young. Make a stand. Make a policy and stick by it. Your members want strength. They want clarity. They want integrity.
What would Johnny Carson have done?
I think its BS that Letterman got special treatment but Leno didn’t. When politicians do it its called corruption. Play fair. Nobody likes the strike, both sides are losing money. But don’t play favorites and give passes to some shows and not to others. Thats strike breaking by the WGA and not fair to the still-striking writers who don’t work for Letterman and not fair for every other party.
Plus i think its complete BS that Leno can improv but can’t write his own material down. Its his thoughts, his lines, his freedom.
If you think he’s cheating then get a third party to watch him prepare the material himself to make sure its really his.
Dear late night viewer,
To quote from another NBCU show, you are a frack’in plant and do you REALLY think he’s not a scab?…Not working with scabs??…He’s on the outs with NBCU what the frack does Jay care???
Let’s put this fire out quickly…
Verrone needs to put in writing what the policy is for Jay doing his monologue. This way everyone can stop guessing what was said and what the rules are, etc.
If Jay’s not allowed to do his monologue and goes on doing it then it’s very simple, he must go fi-core. That’s his option.
Let’s stick to the rules. Stop the name calling and infighting and move on to much much bigger issues.
I hate to say this, but this could be the first step in the attempt to break the Guild. NBC knows what it’s doing, Verrone…not so much.
There needs to be a Guild executive that understands they scope of the battle and the power of the opposition. Bg Media isn’t Universal Studios, it’s GE. In other words….very deep pockets.
And yes, side deals is only going to split the membership, and it is doing that.
Jay is only important in what he exposes, which is a true tier system within the Guild.
Jay is also important in that he brings up the Fi-Core issue. If someone with real celebrity status goes Fi-Core, others will follow, and that, is another way they break the significance of the Guild. Break the significance, break the whole organization.
This is really much bigger than internet residuals. I don’t think Verrone gets any of that.
“Tell me, who are you gonna believe, the greedy, lying, cheating companies or the WGA?”
The companies.
How did the strike get to be a WGA vs Jay Leno? People like Jay and it looks to us like the union is picking on him. To be told that someone can’t write down their own thoughts is insane. Based on the quality of the writing as seen on TV the last few years, some of us don’t care if the strike lasts forever.
This is great news! Now I can work on that script for Paramount and not have to worry about getting kicked out of the Guild!
If the Guild will not discipline Leno for breaking the rules, surely they will have no legal ground for disciplining me. Right?
Right?
As a viewer I fall down on the side of the writers, and I don’t trust Jay Leno. The movie of what went down between him and Letterman years ago exposed Jay as someone who would do anything to get ahead, while hiding behind others and still trying to come across as the good guy.
I hope the writers wind up with an equitable outcome since they are the ones who are really the money behind the celebrities.
I think what Letterman’s writers are doing is far worse then Leno writing his monologue. Letterman’s writers came back to work because they got a deal with Letterman but their fellow union members are still on strike. If they aren’t willing to stay on strike to support their own union members, why should anyone else honor the picket line?
Why does Leno need the rules enforced in the first place unless… ?
His loyalty to the writers is a sham.
His returning to air so his staff could stay employed is a false claim. (Rather loathsome no? To do something selfish and claim it’s for a generous purpose.)
The donuts did not equal true love.
Why would he need to be asked more than once to stop writing?
Donuts don’t buy you a ticket to scab. Stop doing union work during a strike.
I think this is proving the writers are overpaid. I thought Conan was as funny as ever.
For those well-meaning amateurs who have taken the time to comment on this site (and excluding the numerous shills for the AMPTP who are showing up on every comments page,) we Guild members thank you for at least taking to time to get involved, but we ask you to realize this:
If Jay Leno is going to continue to claim he and he alone is writing his monologue, then he’s the King of Fantasy Island.
It would b impossible for him to do that on a daily basis.
As any standup comediam will tell you, their act takes years to perfect. Comics spend months honing each joke, figuring out the best way to set up the story and deliver the punch line. The act of a comic like Leno is the culmination of a thirty year career, not something he put together that day on the back of an envelope.
Now do that five nights a week. It can’t be done. He has to be gtting input from other writers. He has to be gtting help. And if he is, then he is breaking the rules.
I agree, both Leno and Conan were excellent, there was definitely a fresh energy to the shows that is usually absent. Perhaps this has more to do with just being eager to come back after two months. As far as wondering who wrote the monologues, seriously, is it so hard? We get it already, Clinton likes the ladies, Bush is dumb, J-Lo has junk in the trunk, Larry King is old, Al Gore is boring, Paris Hilton is loose, and so forth. It must have been a lot of work re-writing all those fat jokes once Brando was gone.
What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit!
The WGA grants Letterman & Ferguson a waiver because his Production company owns the show.
So what? CBS finances the show, CBS broadcasts the show and it’s CBS that is profiting from the show.
Who’s fooling who?
So Verrone shoots himself (and the WGA rank & file) in the foot in front of witnesses and then tries to cover it with a weak denial. His guy says “I think he said take one for the team”. Right…..
However you feel personally about Jay the fact is America loves and trusts him. This will be really hard to spin if the WGA tries to call him a liar and campaigns to discredit him. This will play badly for the WGA if Verrone tries to save face and of course don’t expect the NBC legal team to sit quietly either. I I ws in the guild I would be mad as hell with my leaders right now – they are really blowing it. Hard to watch this unfold as a member of a collaterally damaged trade.
DGA’ s turn I guess – go get ‘em guys!
BTL – 399
Not on strike
Out of work
Losing my home
Look how Jay got The Tonight Show gig in the first place by hiding in a closet and kissing corporate ass. Jay has never been a stand up guy. Oh, and look NBC is forcing him to retire. LOL
Scab Leno is right!
can I get a secret meeting with verrone and be allowed to go back to work? Why are there “secret meetings” going on?
Leno has to stop doing a monologue.
Leno is writing his own monologues and anybody who says otherwise is misinformed or just angry that he can write better than most of his writers.
The union was broken when Letterman was able to get “his” writers to come back. So some writers can negotiate their own deals, you know like the free market, and others get to walk picket lines earning nothing.
Like anything else in American life, if you are worth it you can negotiate your own deals with the so called greedy corporations but if you are substandard then you will get what they offer you. Blaming a corporation for not getting what you ‘deserve’ is ridiculous. Good Directors can force these same corporations to show their movies and shows without editing, without having their credits stripped off, talked over etc.
If you are worth it and you’re writing is that good than you can negotiate for even more that what the union as a whole will ever bargain for you. Negotiate you own residual deals while signing your contract to write the shows, movies, commercials etc.
Many of you would do much better, some would do about the same and let’s face it, some of you should consider a career change.
anon: “He understands that the only way we can gain leverage is by disrupting revenue streams to struck companies, correct?”
Why should he understand that? The WGA leadership certainly doesn’t. If they did, they would have instituted a work-to-rule slowdown six months before the strike deadline to deny the AMPTP companies an inventory of filmable scripts, rather than allowing their members to rush piles of materials in under the wire. If they understood it, they would have had pickets up at 12:01 AM on Nov. 5, and kept the pickets up on every studio gate they could man (or woman) to shut down production to the greatest extent possible, as quickly as possible.
It seems to me that the WGA strike strategy was based on a fantasy that nothing can happen in entertainment without the services of a WGA writer. It’s not for nothing that real trade unions put up real picket lines and prevent other union workers from crossing them — far from resenting that treatment, the members of the non-striking unions respect it and see it as a promise that the strikers won’t cross their lines if they have to strike in future.
If you’re going to call yourself a trade union and hire an Executive Director from the trade union movement, if you’re going to call a strike like a union does, then act like a union, not an association of professionals who can’t fathom why their greedy capitalist bosses aren’t rushing to turn up the money taps for them.
What was with Leno chum Bill Maher appearing on Letterman, last night? I like Maher and his appearences on Leno was the only thing of Leno’s show that would have me watch it. I’ve been watching Dave for 20 years now. Dave has one thing Leno doesn’t have in the industry – RESPECT. Jay gets the bigger stars but it’s only because TTS reaches a larger audience.
But if it was a question of Maher choosing Dave over Leno in favor of supporting the WGA kudos to him.
I really would have liked to hear Bill go off on Les Moonves, though. Oh, well.
I hear Howard Stern is appearing soon.
And this is a couple days old, but shame on Huckabee.
Screw the guild. They are putting a lot of people out of work and don’t give a damn about them. Props to Jay, Conan, and Jimmy for coming back. Jay took heat because he initially was not paying his staff…NBC staff. It was not his responsibility but he stepped up.
Keep up the good work Jay!
To the wga comedy writer at 10:48 pm
Who would be picking from the 200 jokes for the monologue? Its not a group project like a pre-strike show.
Jay writes about 10 minutes worth of material. He is deciding what goes in the monologue. If he thinks its funny then its in. Period. He doesn’t have to worry about anyone else’s thoughts and opinions and egos.
Will he lose steam? Of course. Even with writers the show goes through ups and downs. Clunkers happen all the time.
As for his interview prep. Its not like he is interviewing world leaders about international policy issues. Its not MSNBC. His questions have always been softballs and his discussions have always been marshmellows. That’s what the show is. At 11:35 PM very few people are looking for a serious discussion. People use this as an light and easy way to end their days.
Jay understands the importance of the Tonight Show to the entertainment business. Its a big FREE commercial for TV shows, movies and musicians. And it needs to be on the air to keep the audience tuning in – its a year round show not a seasonal show like sitcoms and dramas.
Yes, The Tonight Show makes money for the network but that money is used to carry other TV shows that need time to build an audience – like The Office and Seinfeld.
Jay has made many mistakes in his career – and many during this strike but the WGA could have been smarter in handling this situation.
If they had just issued a statement before the show aired saying that “Jay was going to do his monologue and use it to educate the viewing public on the concerns of working writers” they would have showed that they are in control. And taking the high road. Two things the AMPTP has said they lacked.
Instead they got outfoxed again…………
From Nikki’s post: “Earlier today, a WGA spokesman told me: ‘We are not interested in a battle here between Jay and the Guild,’ and doubted there would be any probe. Now the WGA seems to be backing away from that position. ‘If our members decide that there’s been a violation of the strike rules, there is a procedure that will be followed,’ the WGA insider told me.”
This pretty much proves that the WGA leadership is out of touch with its rank-and-file. They don’t seem to have any read on the attitudes of the members on the lines, nor do they seem to have any interest in trying to shape those attitudes through honest communication of their strike strategy. I guess all executives have a tendency to arrogantly assume that their underlings will do what they’re told without question or complaint — and I guess the WGA executives are learning that their arrogance doesn’t play well with the rank-and-file. (The news about the WGA East staff — Newspaper Guild members themselves — filing a formal complaint with the NLRB against the WGAe for playing fast and loose with their contract is further proof of the problem.)
Verrone’s style reminds me of an old satirical song by Tom Lehrer, “Fight Fiercely, Harvard.” He runs a union the same way Harvard plays football.
branding leno as disingenuous is like selling hillary as sexy. lotsa luck with that.
i just read a hundred posts, written by people who barely know what they’re talking about. (i was at “the meeting”) i was also at the “other meeting”, the public WGA meeting days earlier, where the david young, in the most unequivocal language possible, stated the guild would NOT give a deal to Worldwide Pants because it was “too small a company”, and we’re “only interested in a deal with a major company.” then two days later, the guild did exactly what they said they wouldn’t do, signing a deal to let dave & co go back on the air, with writers. Great. The one intelligent comment in this blog was the guy who pointed out that the guild leadership blundered by doing that without first securing an agreement by everyone else in late night (anyone not lucky enough to be dave) to “take one for the team”. They amazingly acted with zero understanding of the intensity of the competitors, and the inevitibility of this causing a fracture. Not only was “taking one for the team” not required of dave, who showed zero support for the strike, zero picket line appearances (and that does boost morale on a picket line, believe me. especially when the person shows up EVERY DAY for two months, it’s not about the donuts). but now dave even gets to throw the beanball and go on the air at full strength. What if Dave and his writers had said, “We’re not going back, unless we ALL go back”? (I’m SO naive.) But that question crosses my naive mind, because that’s the only reason i agreed to strike — because we all were. “all” my brothers and sisters in late night were striking together.) But it’s not just dave and craig. Even less was asked of Ellen Degeneres (daytime, i know, but same show format and similar usefulness to the ampta), who honored our strike for ONE day (she took TWO days off to support her puppy), and then went back on the air with an endless stream of high-profile SAG guests. And the WGA never said a word. Not a word. And now some of you think Jay is the bad guy. Hilarious. But let’s see what happens: Honesly, I’d like to see jay stand down, now, (and the others as well.) but the bottom line is, this particular fracture could have and should have been avoided if our leadership had a clue of the peculiarly competitive nature of late night, and for that matter, human beings in general. people react a certain way when they’ve been lied to, and jay was lied to. repeatedly. Wait, — i just namecalled, so let me correct: the wga leadership didn’t neccesarily “lie”. as generals in a war, (and we elected them) they do have a right to say one thing one day, then change their strategy a day later. I just wish they had thought harder on whether or not their new plan would actually work. boy oh boy, could this chapter have been avoided.
I think the WGA lost already with side deals like Letterman. The WGA should abandon its collective agreement and make the studios sign individual agreements with writers thus increasing their costs (legal and managerial) – more legal paperwork for individual contracts with varying terms and more of a management nightmare. Now the WGA has no leverage and it’s obvious its leadership is ineffective.
Free markets should rule. Unions suck. Jay should quit the WGA. Writers should be hired and paid according to their skills. Companies that want to have good writing will pay for it. Good writers will make good money and crappy writers can serve fish and chips.
I watch Jay and Leno and will continue to do so – writers or no writers. Slamming Jay is stupid since he supports the writers and could be a huge mouthpiece for them. How will you get the word out? Are you going to write it on the sidewalk while picketing? It makes the WGA look like losers in the eyes of the public.
The WGA is going to lose public support if they keep demonizing Jay. America loves Jay, as is shown by his ratings.
I KNOW LENO IS PAYING WRITERS OUT HIS OWN POCKET TO WRITE HIS STUFF. SOME ON HIS STAFF.
what did people think was going to happen when the talk shows went back on air? if the WGA want to look strong, they should shut them down now.
Writer / Producer: did you note this from the LA Times column you linked?
“The studios could have learned a lesson from the U.S. auto industry, which didn’t adapt when it faced more efficient Japanese competitors. The car companies forgot that it all starts with innovation. Somehow the studios have forgotten that it all starts with the word.”
It wasn’t just the car COMPANIES that suffered from the innovation of their competitors. It was their UNION WORKERS who found themselves out of work or going to work for the new non-union plants in other states.
Be careful for the future you wish for. It may involve some truly painful adjustments.
Letterman is a class act. Leno is a whiny jerk. The only time Leno has ever been funny is when he appeared
on Dave’s old show. i don’t know how he wins in the ratings;but I don’t know how Bush got elected either.
Bottom line the writers can say anything they want but the WGA screwed them.
Leno said at the end of some long meeting at WGA that he was doing his own monologue. The guild, i.e. Verrone, said absolutely nothing, did not tell him not to, did not say doing your own monologue is breaking WGA rules. That is the WGA “looking the other way” or an approval by no disapproval. Now that Leno has started, with that approval, the horse is already out of the barn.
While some people/writers will cry and yell, who you need to cry and yell at was Verrone, who didn’t bother to disapprove and by not disapproving, he approved.
As an aside, many people are finding Leno’s show a breath of fresh air without the writers. The jokes are funny, the impromptu with the audience etc etc. Kind of reminds them of going to a live show in Vegas.
What the writers should have done is cut a temp deal that keeps them working while negotiation are going on. The deal should have been that they, meaning the writers, would work at the pay scale and benefits of the old contract, while negotiations were going on. Then once a deal was reached, the writers would get whatever was negotiated, starting when the old contract expired. Then if negotiations drug on for a year, then call a strike.
Oh well, the networks are running some new shows, plus reality TV, the writers are starving and not getting a paycheck. I suspect this will continue.
Bob
Thanks so much for stirring this up, Nikki — due to your historical hate of Leno you’ve turned a small disagreement and made it the focus of the strike for several days now.
Can you please go back to using your powers for good?
Maybe remind people that it’s been 28 days since the AMPTP walked out on negotiations and guaranteed thousands would be out of work for the holidays? Remind people that Nick Counter may have cost the studios their pilot season? That sorta thing.
There are witnesses who were in the room with Jay Leno and Patrick Verrone – witnesses who are writers – who say Patrick is talking out of both sides of his mouth.
This WWP deal and the late nite hosts going back on the air – one more defeat for us because once again it makes us look like amateurs.
Jay won the ratings night WITHOUT HIS WRITERS. And he will continue to win – and now we are going head to head with Jay Leno. What a joke.
This strike has gone off the rails. Period. I defy anyone to express a reasonable opinion on how this decision to make a deal with Letterman worked in our favor. We have helped the networks to raise their advertising revenue – we are helping the studios b/c now they can sell their movies on late night – etc. And we have indicated to the audience that writers (at least on Leno) are not necessary. Great. Good job.
And by the way – the public will side with Leno. For sure. Because they just want to laugh.
Call me a shill – I don’t care – say I’m a traitor – I don’t care – those of you who scream that Leno is a scab blah blah blah are lost in the storm.
The DGA will make a deal. We will accept that deal. Patrick and David will try to claim victory. If they don’t take the deal the mutiny will be fierce. Sure, none of us bitching are using our real names just yet – but there are many of us out there who understand that this strike and the method by which it was started was a loser from the start. We will end up with the deal we wanted – we could’ve gotten it without so much blood in the water. We’re fighting Leno while tens of thousands of people are jobless.
I’m so angry I could spit.
This whole thing has been handled atrociously!
And guess what? You’re all right.
Leno is a scab.
NBC is a manipulative media mogul bent on squeezing cents out of ever last dollar.
And the WGA is run by patsies, NOT negotiators. They f’d up when they didn’t hire David Allen (former union negotiator for the NFL players, who know works at SAG).
Arguing these facts is pointless, because black and white, they’re all true.
So what is the union now prepared to do, to take it to the next level? The AMPTP certainly did by forcing the Late Shows back on air, and hanging their hosts out to dry. These companies have no scruples because they’re run by greed, and now PR’d by the devil.
How do you fight that? Certainly not by whining about Jay’s crappy monologue. The WGA is antiquated, and the battlefield they fight on is much larger and faster moving than the one in ‘88.
Pick your battles people. You f’d up. Don’t act petty and try and take it back like some school yard brat. The WGA needs to take it to the next level, they need to go bigger and badder.
Do I smell McCarthy?
The most salient point about Leno and the others returning to work is this: the writers being on strike affects the livelihood of other people. Forget Leno and NBC for a moment. There are hundreds of people who work on the late night shows, and shutting down these shows throws them out of work, too. The ripple effect industry-wide is enormous, but it fundamentally hurts the producers far less than it hurts everyone else. They can ride out the storm, but the average Joes out there, working paycheck to paycheck, need their jobs. It is far easier for them to be supportive of the Guild if they are not on unemployment, and it will be only a matter of time before it is abundantly clear to anyone watching that the writers are essential for producing a quality product. NBC, with stockholders, pays attention to the bottom line over much of anything else, and will come to the table only when it believes it must. But there is this, too: If the TV audiences see no difference between the shows now and the shows that were Guildmember written—and they continue to watch—maybe we need to know that, too, and adjust accordingly.
This could get extremely ugly. I’m a comedy writer in the guild since 1994 and I’d wager a carton of Krispy Kremes that guild members are writing most of Leno’s formulaic jokes. If he’s getting them from buddies at the comedy club that’s one thing, but the material is too slick, too similar to what he always does.
I’m sorry, but I was impressed with Leno and his style. The new semi-spontaneity is refreshing. It seems the writers have lost the edge over the years. I’ve been flicking between Dave and Jay the past few nights and I think Jay (without writers) is doing a much better job of entertaining US. Dave is just doing the “same old Dave” stuff that has gotten old and moldy.
After all, the only reason these shows are on is to entertain US. The only reason for networks is to entertain US. The only reason writers are even needed is to entertain US. WE haven’t been very entertained for quite a while. If you feel that you are above US, then the average American viewer does not need you.
If the WGA’s principle ally in this struggle, the American consumer, actually understood what the guild is fighting for then I Am Legend wouldn’t have done record-breaking business when it opened a couple of weeks ago.
Before the WGA can request consumer cooperation to boycott of conglomerate greed, the guild will have to educate the public, and the Letterman show seems to be the best bully pulpit available.
Nobody asked Leno who wrote his monologue. He gratuitously volunteered that fascinating bit of information that’s put a lot of panties in a bunch.
I can’t see any effective means to get the attention of the AMPTP without the informed cooperation of the people who feed it; the rest of us.
So apparently the WGA now thinks it can order people not to think. So it would be OK if Jay didn’t actually write it down? If he just thought of the joke, but didn’t put pen to paper? This is completely ridiculous. Besides, Jay is the show. No Jay, no show, lots of people out of work. This strike is bad for the WGA members and bad for the industry. It was poorly thought out, and unfortunately its leadership has boxed itself in and it is only going to end ugly for everyone, but especially the little guy writer (not the millionaire show-runners, etc.).
To me as a viewer, Leno is my friend; the WGA is my enemy. The shows I like are written by talented individuals. The union merely throws sand in the works.
The fact that the nets have taken such vast losses rather than give in to WGA extortion suggests the union seriously misunderstood the economics of the situation.
I can tell that most of the comments are coming from writers. The comments are so well written, and with the proper grammar and punctuation. If you’ve ever read comments from any of the newspaper sites, you can clearly see that the people visiting this site are of a higher caliber.
I’m just a regular viewer and not a writer, actor, crewperson or Hollywood executive here, but with all of the bickering over Jay Leno writing his own monologues, I think that you are forgetting about the big picture, which is to get more compensation for all of the TV show syndication and DVD sales from TV shows and movies plus a cut from any sales of internet streams. What Dave, Jay, and Conan are doing in late night is nothing compared to what will happen when the networks run out of primetime episodes and have to resort to running crap reality shows like “Pick My Booger” and “Mother/Daughter Playmate Search”. Don’t forget that you’re also striking for a cut of motion pictures as well, and the pipeline for decent motion picture scripts will probably run out in the next six months and affect the 2009 movie release schedule. Granted, the studios can probably buy a bunch of indie films to placate some of the movie-going public, but those huge blockbusters like Spiderman, National Treasure, and Transformers are going to be slow in coming, and it’s those films that generate the most revenue for the studios. The current WGA strike may not affect the Weinstein’s very much, but how will Disney explain to their shareholders that their profit margins are going to evaporate because they couldn’t get National Treasure 3, Ratatouille 2, or The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader into production and their primetime ratings plummeted after their new reality shows tanked and they ran Dancing With The Stars into the ground because they had no new episodes of Desperate Housewives or Grey’s Anatomy to show? Thuis is why you writers are striking, so don;t let yourself get ambushed by these little skirmishes when you have bigger battles to fight.
First of all, as a member of SAG, I stand in complete unity with the WGA. This is a battle that will grow exponentially when our contract expires this year. A stand has to be made now and to become sidetracked with Jay Leno is to divert attention for the real issue.
I also have to point out that after reading everyone’s comments, it begs the question: Why are most of those who are bad-mouthing Jay listed as anonymous? You must realize that this severely damages your credibility. If you really have something to say, don’t hide behind an anonymous tag. Join us at the WGA strike locations. Otherwise, you’re like the kid who throws rocks from behind a bush hoping no one saw them.
haha, the ‘writer’ of this story is quite biased towards the writers union, typical.
Go Jay! do your monologue and ignore the pond scum who have already caused a loss of over a billion dollars. The arcane rules of this union have got to go!
Maybe Leno could interview one or a few WGA members. That would make for interesting TV.
JAY LENO IS A SCAB! It’s that simple. Free donuts can’t buy your way out of this Jay. Wake up, be supportive of the WGA (and your own writers) and stop the monologues. Otherwise your are the weak-willed namby Warren Littlefield and Don always thought you were. The only reason you got the Tonight Show was because NBC thought they could control you the way they couldn’t with Dave. Guess they were right. Jay Leno is a like a good German soldier, just following orders. I almost pity you now Jay but you haven’t earned that either.
Leno has the clout to NOT do his show just like Steve Carell who is also on NBC. Leno chose to do it. He chooses to write even though his guild is on strike. His rating may be higher but it’s not because it’s a better show, it’s because middle America doesn’t want edgy before bed. Leno wouldn’t even need a monologue to win. He’s a sugary treat, not salty like Dave. I prefer Dave. I also prefer to live in a city with more progressive thinking.
Leno supported his writers after Dave made him look bad by paying his. Leno is all about how he looks to the public. DId you really expect milk toast to grow a back bone? He is what he has always been, a corporate YES man. NBC is walking all over him by bringing in Conan, and still he prefers them to the principles of what his guild, the WGA, is fighting for. Leno is a desperate attention whore. He will be off the air soon and forgotten. Stay focused on NEW MEDIA guild members!
I guess it is indicative of the alternate and strange universe that entertainment industry folks occupy that they think someone needs to ask permission to write material for themselves. Even stranger that they think non-industry people will be incensed that Leno wrote material for himself without asking permission.
So when Jay said, “I’m doing my monologue”, they didn’t think to clarify where it was coming from? Monologues don’t come from nowhere…they assumed he was going to ad-lib? Forgive my ignorance of how the whole “Hollywood” system works, but I thought “writing” was about coming up with the material, regardless of how it’s done. Whether that’s preconceived or delivered on spur of the moment, what’s the difference? Is there some sort of legal definition that it’s not “writing” the monologue until it goes down on paper? “Jay’s OK if he ad-libs his monologue, but if he actually writes the monologue, be it electronically, on paper, on cue cards, on papyrus, on a napkin, or on wax tablets with a stylus, he’s screwed.” Perhaps the editing is the key…he can write it down once. If he edits it, THEN he’s writing. What nonsense.
At worst, it sounds like Jay got set up, either as another jab at NBC or just to set him up (because he’s a celebrity where most of the writers toil in relative obscurity. Example: if I didn’t watch Futurama, I wouldn’t even know the name Patric Verrone except for this strike). At best, the WGA carelessly dropped the ball, didn’t run down an important issue, and now they’re going to lose some face. Lots of the public like Jay Leno, regardless of what YOU think of him. He contributes endlessly to charity. He doesn’t advance his own agendas with his audience. Most importantly, he’s funny and entertaining. Keep poking him with this stick, and you’re going to lose some public support. Given your careful efforts to build and maintain that support, this would be a big mistake.
Listen up, chipmunk. Jay IS a member of the WGA. He’s been a writer for over 20 years. Shows what you know.
Alvin: “Of all people, Jay should support writers since he is not one.
As a writer who walks a picket line every goddamn day, I am starting to feel very resentful about the writer/performers like Leno, Colbert, Stewart, and Conan.
Have any of these guys walked a picket line? All Guild members are expected to put in twelve hours a week walking. It’s boring. It’s painful. It’s a tremendous drag on my time. I don’t see my family as much as I would like. I don’t get to write as much as I would like.
There is more to a strike than just not working. We stand together, brothers and sisters, or there’s not much point.
Don’t be fooled people. Leno may be a stand-up, but he is not a “stand up” guy. Remember this is the same guy, who hid in a closet to spy on network executives. This is the same guy, who has used freelance writers for years! And the guild knows this.
Ever wonder why the Tonight Show was never nominated for a writing award? No one really knows who write Leno’s crap. My guess? His army of writers, (the freelance scabs and his loyal staff) are sending him jokes. If this is true…shame on you guys.
Leno is a selfish pig and a fool if he thinks a box of krispy creme is going to buy him a pass. He says, he’s been walking the pickeline. Excuse me? Standing for a publicity photo on day one is not walking the line. Call Julia Louis-Dreyfus – she’ll explain how to do it right.
Leno, you say you support the WGA. Act like it! Stop worrying about your ratings and just do your show – without the monologue! I think the world will survive without it. Can you?
just an observer
After reading all of the *public* comments, I am very confused about one thing:
If the WGA is still conducting negotiations with the networks, then why show all the infighting publicly for the whole world to see?
If the WGA wants real leverage, keep all comments off public and do your infighting in private.
So what if LEno writes his own monologue. He paid staffers during the strike and only returned to save their jobs. He didn’t hire scab writers…if the writers are so valuable than why are they afraid he can do it alone? not to mention Leno should be angry at the guild for allowing the negotiation of separate contracts for his competition while he supported them. the writers are correct in wanting internet revenue..but the shabby treatment of Leno gives them a bad name.
Jay is doing exactly what he should be doing: making sure that all his non-writing staff don’t get basically tossed out on the street due to the ridiculous demands of the writers. At the beginning of this, I think that most viewers were on the writers side, but as this continues to go on, the WGA loses more and more support among average viewers. Pretty soon, with everyone eating up American Gladiators, tons of new game shows, and all the other crap that the networks will put on without the writers, everyone will have totally forgotten about the WGA. Maybe then the writers will finally realize their fatal mistake: not to ask for more money, but to ask for fair money from the studios. Any reasonably informed person knew that was never going to happen. Horrible negotiating techniques, horrible leadership, and an unwinnable situation might just leave the WGA totally out in the cold when this is all said and done.
Oh by the way, I will be watching Jay tonight and loving every second of his self-written monologue.
Even when the WGA was not on strike, the fax lines and email were available to anyone who had a connection or two and wanted to submit material to Leno. Comedy writers in L.A. have known this for years. As for Leno’s show – remember that his big guest on that first show back was Mike Huckabee, a theocrat governor from a right-to-work state (that means anti-union, folks). Letterman should do everything in his power to have Daniel Day-Lewis come on his show in character as Daniel Plainview from There Will Be Blood to give his “enlightened” views on unions. That would be funny. Or for a dose of reality, bring in trade unionists from countries where trade unionists have been rounded up, beaten, and yes, even killed (see the rise of fascism in Europe for historical accounts). As for Stewart and Colbert, what I would love to see – I’d like to see them onstage with the New York Times and the Washington Post and whatever mainstream media props they need – all ala Mort Sahl, and just riff intelligently on the news. Hell, I’d love to watch Stewart and Colbert at their desks with a laptop, stopping at websites like Huffington Post, Talking Points Memo, and Americablog.com, progressive or conservative blogs, again commenting on the stories they see which are usually not gone into depth in the mainstream media. I’d watch that. But I’m forgetting one thing in my dream of seeing shows where ideas are discussed or generated… TV is a commercial medium. TV exists to sell soap, cars, beer, fast-food, and whatever else props up the economy and greases the wheels of commerce. Last add – Ironic to me that Leno had Huckabee on at all. Leno’s a dinosaur and Huckabee doesn’t believe in evolution.
I’m not much of a late night TV fan, and I’ve never been a fan of Leno’s — I’ll stick to John Stewart, thank you; but I have to admit, Leno’s show is actually funnier without writers. Why? Because we, the WGA, have given him the thing his smug persona always lacked: desperation.
You can see it in his face. Writers or no writers, he NEEDS his jokes to work in a way he didn’t back in the day when he had real writers shaping his monologues. Maybe he’s writing them himself, maybe not. But now, even the lame jokes and cheesy rim-shots are funny because if they don’t work, he’s dead in the fucking water. He even commented on it last night to Kevin what’s-his-name, “This show’s never been looser…”
That’s what panic will do to you. It’s what makes humor exciting — something’s at stake. In this case, it’s Leno’s legacy. Most comedians create a person embodying that need through talent. Leno got it handed to him. But one, even two monologues is no great feat for a pro. Doing it night after night after night, no one can be that funny for that long. He’s going to burn out. We need to be patient. Let him do his thing. In two or three weeks, when he’s burned out and his monologues aren’t working and the edge has come off the writerless show, he will THEN demonstrate that writers are essential.
In the meantime, calling him a hack, or a jackass or even a scab isn’t going to get us anywhere. It merely distracts the focus of the strike away from what’s essential — the internet, residuals, downloading, etc.
IMHO, the reason Leno is getting a lot of crap for professing to “support the writers” then fucking them over is because he’s become the poster boy for the dark truth about this business. All over town, people are “scabbing.”
Look at movies in production. Yeah, I know, “the scripts are already written.” But I have heard from crew people about two shoots (I’m trying to find out the names of the films) where “someone” — not a WGA writer, probably the craft services person who wants to be a writer someday (this actually happened on one my movies in a non-strike situation) — per the Producer’s request, is making changes to the script.
If you’re an actor and you get new pages, then you are FULLY AWARE that SCABBING is being done. Has that caused anyone to speak out, name the movie to the guild or walk off the job?
I thank SAG and its members for supporting us on the line and speaking out; but if they really supported us, no-strike clause or not, they’d walk off movie sets and TV shows (if any are still in production) today. I mean, seriously, who’s going to punish Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Julia Roberts, Jody Foster or any other A-list star who, like Steve Carrell, decides they just can’t cross a picket line?
Leno is the straw man, here. Forget about him. He’s back. He’s doing what he’s doing. Without writers, sooner or later, he will burn out, while Letterman and Ferguson (who’s been fucking hysterical) will chug along with all the writers churning the wheels of their late night machines.
We each have our own pressures and problems. I know that I’m not the only one looking over my shoulder at my dwindling bank account as bills rolls in. But we are striking because we believe it’s important. It sucks. It’s anxiety making. But bitching, moaning, or worse, jumping ship helps no one, not even ourselves.
The WGA makes an interim agreement with Letterman’s production company and not Leno, basically leaving Leno defenseless. Leno should be able to write his own monologue. The WGA was playing favorites and Leno is basicically saying FU to them.
Fact is he’s leaving in 2009 and doesn’t have to kiss the WGA azz. He employs a lot of writers and has been paying the salaries most of his staff since the strike started.
What if Jay just “thinks up” jokes, and memorizes them without a teleprompter? Will he be breaking the rules if he gives his monologue that way? What if he films himself speaking the “playlist” and then plays that on his own teleprompter, to remind him of the jokes that he memorized? Is that still against the rules? What if some of those off-the-cuff remarks he’s making with his guests are actually similar to jokes he told 10 years ago, written down somewhere – does that cross the line?
This is absurd.
The last two nights of Leno have been better then anything they’ve done in a very long time. Having seen Jay perform many times in the past at trade show dinners and similar venues over the years, I remember how funny he can be talking about any subject. Something happened during the Clinton Presidency that changed that. Allowed to creep into his monologs until it took over his monologs, was the debaseing of the Presidential Office (although deserved in Clintons case)to a point where it was all the so called “brilliant writers” concentrated on. Jay slowly decended from a lofty perch of being downright funny, to the depths of clawing at daily headlines to squeeze out some chuckles regarding the misfortues of people in the news. In his first ‘back on the air’ show this week he refered to that point in his career when he started out, and thats where he should concentrate his energies once again. These last two nights of lightness, seemingly off the cuff situations and responses have been the best shows in a long time. Even when the writers strike ends, Jay would be better off not using their material as it inevitably will result in him falling down to that level again where vindictiveness and the utilization of a dark monolog as a weapon and instrument of demeaning others, is supposed to be humourous.
Are you listening here Jay? You have not forgotten HOW to be funny, you’ve just forgotten to BE funny. This strike has given you the chance to be yourself again. Welcome back! We’ve missed you.
I’m not yet sure whose side I come down on here, but I am pretty sure that this whole thing is a weapon of mass distraction that can only hurt the WGA’s cause as more and more attention is paid to it.
Yes, the “writing in advance vs. ad-libbing” argument is kind of silly; it’s pretty close to saying “OK, you can go on the air and try to be funny, but you can’t actually elicit any laughter. Maybe a few chuckles and snorts. We’ll allow one guffaw. That’s it.” It’s silly because it shouldn’t exist in the first place. If you marry your sister Judy and have a bunch of kids, it’s silly to get into an argument about whether they should address their mother as “Mom” or “Aunt Judy,” but the larger point is that you shouldn’t marry your sister.
Leno shouldn’t have come back. Period. But he did. And no amount of Guild pestering is going to get him back off the air, and NBC sure as hell isn’t going to sign the Worldwide Pants agreement, so everyone should just move on. He is absolutely irrelevant to the goals of the strike and negotiations and should be properly viewed as the infinitesimally marginal figure he is on the overall media landscape. Now let’s talk about something more interesting.
adc 10:19 am says, “I will be watching Jay tonight and loving every second of his self-written monologue.”
You won’t be “loving” for long, then.
And anonymous reader 10:15 am asks, “If the WGA is still conducting negotiations with the networks, then why show all the infighting publicly for the whole world to see?”
Most of the supposed infighting online is the work of plants and provocateurs, not WGA members. Member support for the strike is still hearty.
I hope you guys realize, things like this make the entire WGA seem like a bunch of petty, greedy people when they declare that someone can’t put his own material on a piece of paper or into a computer without it breaking some sort of super awesome guild rule.
The public isn’t going to get behind you on this one, they’ll ultimately just see you guys are just as greedy as the corporations you’re claiming are so bad. It’s lose-lose, and people are still going to just turn off their televisions and do something else.
Has anyone ever tried pushing the positions with hard numbers to convince people that you’re actually fighting for something? I’ve never seen anything but words about how this and that is bad and everyone got hosed on DVD’s in the last strike.
I’d personally like to see revenue projections from internet and other ‘new media’ streams, as well as the actual income from DVD’s and the disbursement to the relevant parties.
Right now, all anyone who’s not working in the industry knows is that there’s no new TV shows in the time of the year when they’d rather be inside watching their new TV shows, and that the writers are the ones not writing things so they can’t watch them. Most people don’t really give a crap about some mythical internet revenue streams.
Prove to people that this strike matters.
Calling Jay Leno (who more people know and like than any single writer for any television show on the entire television spectrum) any number of bad things is really only going to make you look bad, not him.
I’m sorry but Leno is the issue in the same way any WGA member who scabs is the issue. If we start giving a pass to people just because they are famous, this strike will fall apart very, very quickly. His 160 people are back at work whether or not he does his monologue. If he is truly a friend to the union, he has a real opportunity to show us what a show is like without writers. That includes him. This town is so hopelessly PC that it can’t stand to offend anyone. We are in the middle of a strike. We have essentially declared war on the companies. It is a fight. Fights get ugly. But that’s what we signed on for. We are going to offend people. We are going to piss people off. That’s what it takes if we believe the fight is worth fighting. If we can’t stand the heat, we shouldn’t be engaged in the battle. If we don’t stand up to Leno and demand that he abide by the rules every other member is abiding by (hopefully), we are telling the AMPTP that they can walk all over us. What’s to prevent Colbert or Stewart from doing the same thing? Leno is no different from the first air traffic controller who went into the tower to break that strike. He is absolutely the issue.
If Jay Leno is indeed such a supporter of the WGA, why doesn’t be invite Patric Verrone onto his show? Clarify this all in public. Better yet, make it live.
If that’s not an option, how about John Bowman, or David Young, or Marc Cherry, or Tom Schulman, or Aaron Mendelsoh, or Tom Fontana, or Neal Baer, or Ron Bass, or Carlton Cuse, or Stephen Gaghan, or … (the list of Leno’s fellow WGA members goes on and on). My guess is they are all waiting for their close-up…
So this is what the unemployed are doing – blogging.
Does anyone really think that giving Letterman a side deal and Leno a free pass to write his monologue is going to help us get paid for work on the Internet?
This strike is starting to feel less like a work stoppage and more like Hollywood deal-making as usual. Where status determines which rules you have to play by.
With all the splitting of hairs it is difficult to know what the WGA line IS — let alone line up members in solidarity. It’s also almost impossible to remember that this isn’t just the late night writers’ strike.
And to “Late Night Viewer” — America is free to miss us or not miss us. But the AMPTP is not free to not pay us our fair share. That’s what the strike is about.
But does anyone in or out of the Guild still believe it?
I think everyone is also missing a major point. It doesn’t matter if Leno isn’t writing his jokes. He publicly stated he did and no one will be able to convince the general celebrity loving public otherwise without looking like a petty loser.
Leno guranteed that he will look great and that writers aren’t necessary. For a guy who supports the WGA, he basically stabbed it in the back.
And the WGA executive? These guys are just not good enough for the job.
By the way, aren’t some of the soap writers now fi-core too?
It’s tough to argue that the strike isn’t effectively broken. How much longer can it be before other shows start coming back? Hopefully, the end result will be a shakeout of the writers who bring us gems like “Cavemen” and increased opportunities for the ones who bring us “Lost.” Each writer should be cutting the best deal he or she can – just like the rest of us out here in the real world do.
Ears R. Ringing: “In two or three weeks, when he’s burned out and his monologues aren’t working and the edge has come off the writerless show, he will THEN demonstrate that writers are essential.”
Unless, of course, the two or three weeks let him get into a groove and become much more comfortable with his new format….
Isn’t saying “we don’t want war” kind of like saying “We’ll look the other way”? (The main difference being that “We Don’t Want War” is easier to sell to the striking writers)
AMPTE won’t negotiate, Leno is writing his own monologues, and the WGA is on strike. Sorry to say but war is being waged, whether Verrone and Co. want it or not.
Seeing as how this is the most commented talkback I’ve seen in my short, short visits to this site I’d just like to say to any WAG members reading this you have my sincere admiration and respect. Without you there would never have been a “Star Wars”, a “Sopranos” or any other milestone in entertainment history.
I’m just a viewer from the cold end of Canada who’s been following the industry as well as anybody such as myself can here, for many years and am amazed at the amount of people who don’t pay attention to what makes a show really work. The writing.
Although my girlfriend is quite aware of you’re gifts from watching “Grey’s.”
I’m happy Dave’s back and I hope you all recieve a more than fair solution in the end.
I reeeaally miss “The Office” – Michael, Paul, Mindy and the other brilliant writers. I hope we get to hear you’re words sooner than later.
I think that the WGA management is busily (and blindly) sawing on the branch between where they are sitting and the tree trunk.
They have made some tactical errors with the WWP/Leno things recently, but perhaps more important, they may have made a gross strategic error by calling the strike in the first place. And then they poured rocket fuel on the fire by adding to the list of demands after the fact (as I understand it).
They DO NOT have the studio overlords over a barrel. None depend solely on programming for income, much less scripted programming. The public does not know or care about any of the details of the strike, who demands what, or who won’t give who what is fair. All it cares about is that it is entertained. And if there is no scripted entertainment to be had… they will move on to other forms of entertainment.
What will likely happen is that sooner or later the rank and file will get tired of it all and go back to work – maybe with a few of the concessions from the studios that were offered before the strike. Maybe with nothing. The WGA management will proclaim victory, no matter what.
The unintended consequences will likely include the intermediate future of the industry being pulled forward to 2008. As mentioned in the LA Times piece, the industry will change again. Big time.
Many aspects of the biz will change THIS year to reflect how things would have been 5, 8, or 10 years from now if there had been no strike. The big difference will be that there would have been time for all those involved to adjust to the new cruelty over those years as things changed at their own pace. But now, there will not be that time for adjustment and a lot of folks are going to find that they (and their current jobs) have been suddenly marginalized. Or worse.
It would be glib (and probably incorrect) to remind everyone to be careful what they wish for. I doubt that any of the rank and file were/are wishing for what is probably going to happen to them.
But I do think that it appropriate to accuse the leadership of incompetence… or at least of being blind and stuck in the first half of the last century in their thinking.
As a screenwriter and WGA member for many years, I am dismayed by the mouth-frothing hysteria exhibited in these postings, and I am especially annoyed by Gavin Palone’s pathetic attempts to inject himself into the argument at every turn.
Why should anyone care what he thinks?
Palone is typical of the overgrown school-yard bullies who call themselves producers these days. He is a pathetic little pilot fish, flitting around, hoping to snap up the bloody tidbits that fall from the jaws of the studio sharks. Palone cannot write, sing, act, direct or build sets — all of which are reasons for being on a sound stage. As my granddaddy used to say, he’s as useless as tits on a boar hog.
I urge all writers, actors and directors to join me in the following New Year’s Resolution:
“I solemnly vow to never work on any project controlled by Gavin Palone who is the biggest asshole in the Western Hemisphere.”
Sincerely,
David Sheffield
The public supports the writers!
We’re just tv viewers but we think Leno stinks for going against the writers
Also, we resent how “shills” on this site posing as tv viewers make us look stupid.
We’re not stupid.
It’s not believable Leno is writing his entire show himself every night.
And we don’t approve of Leno going against his union.
It’s obvious that Jay is using writers for his monologue. Anyone who has ever written, or even observed, how the Tonite Show is put together knows it’s all but impossible for one person to create all the gags needed for a monologue. I think most of us know this but are afraid to say it.
What bothers me is that some of these writers may be WGAw members. Helping Jay keep his ratings is counterproductive to the cause at the very least, and any member caught writing for him should be banned.
I SAY, WRITERS, PICKET THE WGA HEADQUARTERS IF THEY DON’T BRING JAY UP ON CHARGES!
They cannot treat celebrities differently and expect the support of their union members and other unions. Letterman is a BIG union suporter for making a deal – the WGA is slapping him in the face for that by allowing someone to publicly break WGA rules night after night. If Conan did just noodle around rather than do anything written himself then he too is a BIG supporter. Jay can bring donuts all he wants, but did he actually walk the line and put in some time? He is NOT a BIG supporter and it makes me sick that he’s being protected.
This is ridiculous! I am a SAG member who has volunteered hours to walk the line in solidarity and I have to say, NO MORE, if the WGA is SO WEAK as to not take official actions to reprimand Jay. To do a written monologue once is stupid – can he really not understand simple rules? But to have the rules explained to him and do it a second time (if that’s what he did, I did not watch), then he needs to be officially reprimanded somehow and FORCED to stop if he wants to remain a member of teh WGA. If he doesn’t want to remain a member of teh WGA – WHO CARES! If he can’ts stand the heat of filling a few minutes of his show so much he would turn his back on the union he’ll have to live with the shame of being hated for being a self serving SCAB! But don’t coddle him to keep him – it only sends a message to the rest of teh WGA membership that their sacrifices aren’t important.
Additionally letting Jay do his monologues (and a statement only IS letting him do his monologues) not only makes the WGA look like WIMPS, but it takes away incentive for companies to make agreements like Letterman did.
WGA – you are screwing this up miserably bu not taking a strong disciplinary stance, and it looks like I’ll be striking this summer, because if you are so weak you can’t even enforce your rules, then you are probably going to roll over and take a sucker deal. SHAME on Jay and SHAME on WGA – protect your members who are STRIKING. And I don’t know HOW you expect SAG members not to cross your picket lines when you let your own members do struck work…
And to those people who don’t understand why Jay can’t write his monologue, its because he is employed as both talent and a writer and he can perform his duties as talent but not as a writer – this is why the ladies of the view perform – they are AFTRA members with a no-sympathy-strike rule and they just have a conversation. If Jay had the GUTS to, he could ad-lib and improvise and chat – but he’s clearly too scared to work without a net.
I seriously doubt that Jay Leno wrote his last two monologues entirely by himself, and even if he did write them by himself, he’d still be in clear violation of the WGA strike rules. I don’t care how he chooses to rationalize it.
I don’t hate Jay Leno like many people do, partly because he seems like a pretty nice guy overall, and partly because I was a fan of his stand-up years ago, but what he’s doing right now is flat-out wrong. NBC says, officially, that he’s entitled to write for himself during the strike, and that’s simply not true. I understand that the NBC executives and 99.999% of Leno’s viewers either don’t care that he’s violating the strike rules, or actually applaud him for it, but that doesn’t make it any less wrong.
It was nice of Leno to be verbally supportive during the early days of the strike, but his actions in the last two days alone have completely undermined any good that he did for his fellow union members. I don’t expect the majority of Americans to care about that, of course, but that’s the way it is.
Good for Jay. The WGA screwed him over. Either you support all your members or none of them. By giving letterman a special deal, they screwed over leno. They are using leno (one of their own members) as a pawn against NBC. Why should one paying member get more support than another? Leno should just turn in his card and tell them to stick it.
The “scabs” (ouch) who write Jay’s monologues and have been doing so for years get $50 a joke and have to work full-time for the hope of getting anything in. The WGA has never stopped him, or Dave for that matter, because the lie is the hosts consider this material for them, not for the show. What is the chance that Jay will use one of my jokes at a comedy club? Possible but not likely. And for no more money. But the jokes get on TV all the time.
Jay is nothing without his monologue writers. His own staffers write the intros to the talent and the two times a week production bits. Maybe one is present for the JayWalking bits, just to throw in something.
We are the heartbeat of his show and not once has the guild tried to organize us. They’ll go after Tyra and reality, but they screw us. Just like Jay does. And Dave.
No benefits, no vacation, no minimum payment, no health care. Just the joy of occasionally seeing our gags on TV and getting that big Big Dog check. (Jay pays us personally, not from the Tonight budget.)
It’s a scam but I have to feed my kid so I do it.
Bill Nelson wrote: “The Union busted itself. The writers at Letterman should stay off work, until all the members go back to work.
What point are these lines, when some return and others do not.”
You obviously don’t know a thing about how unions work.
Once a contractor, in this case Letterman’s show, agree to the terms the union demands, and agree to abide by those terms, his employees are free to go back to work. Union employees are only prohibited from working for companies and organizations that have not reached agreement with the union.
Look for the union label
when you are buying that coat, dress or blouse.
Remember somewhere our union’s sewing,
our wages going to feed the kids, and run the house.
We work hard, but who’s complaining?
Thanks to the I.L.G. we’re paying our way!
So always look for the union label,
it says we’re able to make it in the U.S.A.!
http://unionsong.com/u103.html
I heard Patric on the radio this morning and am convinced he’s serious about going after Leno. If he is, here’s a prediction: when the dust clears Leno and at least some of his staff will be blacklisted for life.
If Jon Stewart and Colbert were thinking of doing prepared material on Monday they won’t now. But I think they’re too smart for that. Forget ratings, they’d just be scewing themselves and their careers up big time, which Leno is now learning.
there is some good news – SAG announced about 15 minutes ago its members will not cross the picket at the golden globes.
The WGA is killing itself and has no one else to blame. Before the strike Jay was only slightly better than Letterman. Now that both are back, Letterman has his writers, Jay does not and Jay Leno is now 10 times better than Letterman. The scripted, stiff late night talk show is not only boring but not very funny. Looser is better, this is why Jimmy Kimmel was much funnier and entertaining than his competition since launching his show a few years ago. Even Conan is better without his writers.
The hairsplitting by the WGA is hilarious. Oh… Jay can AD-LIB his stand up… but he can’t write the friggin’ jokes down on a piece of paper! Can he think the jokes through in his mind during the afternoon? Can he change the set-up to a joke once he thinks of it? Can he do anything he wants as long as it is not put down on paper? What if he dictates the jokes to his wife? Is THAT ok? Geeeezzz…
Leno has been FUNNIER the last few days, and Letterman sucks. I wish the best for the writers, but I’m pretty sure “writers” will be emailing NBC and Jay to help him out. Too much money at stake. I’m sure the producers are the worst ever, and i’m also sure the writers are talented and do a great job; nonetheless, Leno is really funny and viewers won’t leave him just because the writers are gone. It’s called branding.
“The one intelligent comment in this blog was the guy who pointed out that the guild leadership blundered by doing that without first securing an agreement by everyone else in late night (anyone not lucky enough to be dave) to “take one for the team”.
How? How were we supposed to do that? Go to Leno, hey you know how you already announced you’re crossing our picket line, to hell with our strike? You know how we can all go to hell, all you care about is making money for NBC and being “number one”? You’ll take one for the team, right? With the exception of kidnapping, which I’m not in favor of, I can’t think of any way to bring that about.
“I think what Letterman’s writers are doing is far worse then Leno writing his monologue. Letterman’s writers came back to work because they got a deal with Letterman but their fellow union members are still on strike. If they aren’t willing to stay on strike to support their own union members, why should anyone else honor the picket line?”
Are you nuts? Jay Leno is a member of the WGA. So is Conan, Kimmel, Stewart and Colbert. If Letterman’s writers, for god sake, who have no choice in this matter, are supposed to refuse to honor the agreement made between WGA and WWP because of some moral obligation, doesn’t Jay also have the same obligation to stay on strike to support his own union members? (And he didn’t return as a host, by his own admission he’s back as a writer). The only difference between the Late Show writers and Jay is Jay had a choice. If he’d chosen to do the right thing and honor the moral obligation you claim exists even for those who are coming back through no fault of their own to work under an agreement the WGA didn’t have to grant but did, the WWP deal would never have taken place and wouldn’t be an issue anyway. The other hosts crossing the line put WWP’s writers in this position, but I guess they’re not wealthy and famous enough to get a free pass and be held to a completely different standard.
“The union was broken when Letterman was able to get “his” writers to come back. So some writers can negotiate their own deals, you know like the free market, and others get to walk picket lines earning nothing.”
Yeah, or like every other industry where unionized workers negotiate with individual companies, not a cabal of employers who are supposed to be competitors colluding against their employees (that’s like the definition of the free market, right?). If the UAW goes on strike against GM, it doesn’t turn into an industry-wide strike. Because each individual company has its own separate agreement with its unionized workers. So, some UAW members, say the ones who work for Ford, keep working while the UAW members who work for GM are out walking the picket line for nothing. Unions aren’t broken just because they don’t have to deal with a cabal and can make separate deals with seperate companies in the same industry. Remember the stagehand strike? The stagehands who worked at theaters which had separate agreements with the union kept working, because they weren’t on strike, and you didn’t hear any striking stagehands crying about how it’s everybody or nobody.
The work of a HILARIOUS writer.
“As a writer who walks a picket line every goddamn day, I am starting to feel very resentful about the writer/performers like Leno, Colbert, Stewart, and Conan.
Have any of these guys walked a picket line? All Guild members are expected to put in twelve hours a week walking. It’s boring. It’s painful. It’s a tremendous drag on my time. I don’t see my family as much as I would like. I don’t get to write as much as I would like.
There is more to a strike than just not working. We stand together, brothers and sisters, or there’s not much point.
Comment by Mike — January 4, 2008 @ 10:10 am ”
Mike, as a 15 year current active duty sailor aboard the USS Anzio, I don’t give a good god damn that you have to walk a line 1.7 hours per day, 7 days a week. I can tell you some stories about family separation…but, we’ve both chosen our trades, haven’t we?
It’s clear the WGA is seeking “fairness” by taking revenge on old grudges.
The fact that Letterman was able to come up with a deal, proves that a deal is workable, but the WGA and AMPTP are both too engrossed in their own egos to make it work.
Cry me a river pal…talk to your leadership….
This would seem like it is a matter of First Amendment rights to be able to write or to express yourself in any form.
Is that not protected?
It is unfair to let Letterman’s writers return to work and deny Leno the right to write his own material. In fact it is unfair to let Letterman’s writers return to work and prevent other writers from working. The WGA busted their own strike!
Leno is setting a precedence, and this union has been broken. So much for that rot and it’s on with the show.
The WGA leadership blew it with the Letterman decision. They now look like bumbling bullies and uncertain of what their exact goals were going into the strike. Leno has my support and I’m much less sympathetic with the writers’ cause. Nice work.
I want to thank you all for your contributions to this thread; reading these comments provides valuable insight on the thought processes of WGA members. Here I can find flaming personal attacks without merit fired upon a man who demonstrates class every week night. From a spectator’s view, most of you should be glad to have someone represent you in negotiations, because you wouldn’t get very far on your own. And writing is supposed to be your strong suit?
This whole strike is a joke and shouldn’t be happening at all. If anything, the writers should be working under the previously bargained for contract and negotiate with all parties on new issues. When the last contract was written and signed, the issues now in question didn’t exist. To strike the shows based on developments on the internet should have been addressed in years past to allow time to resolve the disputes. As it now stands, we all know the writers and the companies will never regain the millions lost already – both viewers and dollars. Everyone loses and the only support for this strike is in Hollywood and New York. NO ONE ELSE CARES – except to the extent that we will now not watch network TV.
The Guild has alienated viewers and if they didn’t understand the actual reality of their actions, that is only in keeping with the idea that Hollywood and the entertainment industry are truly in their own fantasy world.
The comments about primetime mattering far more than late night are on the mark. In my family all I hear are “is the writers strike over yet?” because they are tired of no new shows. Both sides are slitting their throats because not everyone is going to come back to their TVs after the strike is resolved. TV viewing was declining before, it will plummet faster now. The public really doesn’t care who is “right” or “wrong” – they are thinking a pox on both of your houses.
Interesting to see so many posts on a blog – part of the New Media the WGA is fighting to get writers paid for.
Too many people just don’t get it about writers. I see it all the time. The public can write their own name so figure writing is easy. Maybe so. But GOOD writing is hard and takes skill and innate talent – and it ought to be compensated with far better wages than writers usually get. Bravo to the WGA for keeping up with the fast pace of technology and the role of writers in the new media. We all owe it to ourselves and those who come behind us to keep the focus on this issue (and not the trivialities of Jay Leno, etc.) and keep fighting the good fight.
Keep the faith. It’s worth the struggle.
Leno doesn’t need writers anyway. I saw him do a stand-up show back in the early 90s and he was up there for two hours without any cue cards or anything, everything off the top of his head. It was like a 2 hour monologue without any pause.
Judging by the posts, it appers that most of the comments left here have been by writers. Do any you realize that the Drudge Report has linked to both this article and the one prior?
Millions of viewers are reading the petty name calling: “scum”, “scab” , “whiny jerk” “a good german soldier” etc..
I have listened to Jay’s “monologue” both nights. He’s not complaining about the writers. In fact, he has not said anything negative about the WGA or its leadership, which at this point he would be justified.
Let me give you some advice. 1st. Cut your losses and make a deal. 2nd. Read your posts before you press submit query. After all, you are suppose to be writers.
Good that Leno is writing his monologue himself…his writers sucked for years! It got so bad with his writers that I would not watch till his guest came out…This now shows that the writers are not needed!
Jay’s monologues right now are rough and crude and terribly funny.
Writers in Hollywood WRITE FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I cannot believe that the Writers would want to refuse Jay Leno the opportunity to handle his own show. What in the hell? He comes up with a great joke, in his own head, at 10 am, and HE CAN’T USE IT during his own show? WHAT?
That’s a crazy position they shouldn’t be touching with a ten foot pole. They are harming themselves terribly by taking such a stand. BIG MISTAKE, BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG.
I watched both Letterman and Leno this week and have to conclude that Letterman is a much classier character, both in the respect he has for the intelligence of his audience, and for the way he treats his writers and staff. Jay usually gets better guests, but the show itself is hollow and inauthentic and now, regrettably, a petri dish of injustice that should concern all of us. Even if The Tonight Show does well in the ratings, perceptive viewers will note the show’s continued decline, a decline accelerated by immoral choices made at NBC by Jay Leno and his producers.
I am a viewer, totally support the writers, and their demands, but your leadership stinks. The “deal” they made with Dave was a HUGE mistake, and whether or not this is the way it works in this union, it looks bad some members are going back to work. effectively “crossing” the picket lines of their fellow wga members. My husband is in a union, my son is in a union, and more family members are union members, and when they’ve been on strike it’s been “one for all & all for one” and that’s what most of the public understands.
You have to demand more from your leaders, this isn’t about jay, conan, jimmy or the rest.
And the news today that they won’t give a “waiver” to the Golden Globes yet they will to SAG, doesn’t help your PR
Look, I’m not an attorney. However, from a layman’s perspective. The fact that the WGA tries to use the Union rules to handcuff Jay Leno’s ability to write on his own and perform the monlogue might cause some serious legal ramifications.
For one, the WGA’s behavior, whether by intent or by accident, might be a violation of Federal anti-trust laws. By attempting to undercut Jay Leno and Tonight Show, it potentially benefits and gives unfair advantage to their cross-country rival David Letterman and Late Show. As a result, it stifles competition and, resultantly, consumers (audiences) suffer. I believe a Federal case trumps some Union rules.
WGA might be able to put a stranglehold on its writers, but it surely cannot on fair competition.
ADC at 10:19 AM wrote, “I will be watching Jay tonight and loving every second of his self-written monologue.”
I’ll admit that Leno’s recent monologues are not dissimilar to his pre-strike monologues. But I have news for you, ADC: They were not self-written! I am a former freelance writer for Leno so I know something about the subject. Before the strike, he employed 16 to 20 staff writers, and several non-guild freelancers who faxed him jokes. I have no clue how many freelancers he was using when the writers struck, but I know it was at least 4 (because I know 4 personally). Hundreds and hundreds of jokes were submitted for each show, with only a handful making air. So to believe he’s been writing the monologues himself you have to buy into the premise that he’s doing the jobs of 20+ writers. Sorry ADC, it just doesn’t add up. Maybe your post should have read “I will be watching Jay tonight and loving every second of his scab-written monologue.”
What kind of a “strike” allows some union members (Letterman) to break with strike precedent and work?
Very strange.
Quote from above “Tell me, who are you gonna believe, the greedy, lying, cheating companies or the WGA?”
I don’t believe the greedy, lying, cheating companies anymore than the greedy, lying, cheating writers! If the greedy writers can give Dave Letterman a pass they should have done the same for Leno.
You people have not the slightest idea of what a union is suppose to do.
It is not us against them… Is there one of you that care how many others are out of work because of your strike? Even if you win what do the others get? Did you support the stage hands on strike? What your contract did not allow you to stop writing? I see, you say you did sympatheize though.
What makes you think that Leno’s contract allows him to not go on. It doesn’t? But you want him to flop without prepared material. … for what? so they will negotiate with you?
Oh to be so important that one loses all prospective of true self worth.
When a new contract is reached, the WGA should DEMAND to stagger the term lengths of the new MBA so that they do not expire all at the same time. This way, the next time the networks try to screw you, a strike of one network will cause viewers/dollars to dramatically shift to the non-struck networks, thereby putting financial pressure on the parties that are struck. There are numerous advantages of this approach if you think about it for a little while, I’m not going to type them all out here, but it would be better for all sides and would also once and for all get rid of the AMPTP, which shouldn’t exist anyway. Separate production companies/studios, separate contracts. When a new issue in this rapidly evolving world of new media and the like comes up, the strike would come on in “waves”, giving advantage to the networks who haven’t yet reached expiration and therefore increasing the likelihood that those networks will agree to fair terms if they do get to expiration. Also, the WGA will get to pick when it decides to negotiate certain issues for the first time (thereby picking a potentially friendlier studio who would be more likely to agree and then making it harder for the subsequently expiring studios to not agree). Less writers would be out of work as well. And with the pace of technology these days, having expiration’s more often will allow the WGA to continually refine its negotiation skills and get better and better contracts that will be applied to the other contracting parties as their studio’s MBA comes up for expiration. Since you aren’t required to negotiate with the AMPTP and must be able upon request to negotiate with the studios directly (by law), I don’t see how something along these lines could be a bad thing. Think about it. I’m not a lawyer, and might be missing something that makes this impossible, but it seems to me that the UAW works in this way, so why couldn’t the WGA? I don’t see any downside, except many more negotiation sessions. But that could also be a good thing. A continual refinement of the terms of the deals, as the technology and business of content delivery rapidly evolves.
As an outsider looking in, I would suggest the guild membership take a look at what they are doing to themselves.
I understand the union mentality, as well as that of some management. The guild has made several HUGE mistakes and needs to regroup.
Currently, the writers, if anyone outside California is listening, have the image of anti-free speech henchmen trying to choke free enterprise through coercion and mob rule. How someone can make NBC look like a victim is beyond me.
Dealing with David Letterman individually has greatly reduced any chance of getting a union favorable settlement.
Also, one poster noted this is linked to the Drudge Report and that the postings are not showing the best of the guild. Take this to heart. Millions of people worldwide are reading the poor writing and the nasty remarks.
Should the strike falter, it is on the hands of Jay Leno. Coffee, doughnuts and Rah rah rah are great, but he crossed the line and he knows it. Did he applaud Letterman publicly for Dave’s support of the WGA? With this spat, if he continues, he must bear the shame of what he caused. Et tu, Brute?
The WGA negotiatied with Leno, and he went back on the air. How is that any different than what Letterman did?
Leno made an effort to meet with the WGA to do the right thing, made an agreement with them and now he’s the bad guy? Give me a break. You all sound like jealous little children.
And, by the way, Letterman isn’t some kind of hero, people. Because he’s loaded, he owns his own show and his staff and he can continue to make money while the rest of you sit there complaining and acting like he isn’t some sort of strike breaker. Your strike ended when he went back to work and the WGA negotiated with the other late night stars. You just don’t realize it yet.
They’re on the air. You have no salary. And it’s all your own fault.
Get back to work.
Face it, no one cares about TV any longer. IF they did, there would be a huge public clamor for the return of writers. Now, how long have you guys been on strike? Anyone can watch anything on demand now. Go back to work, or starve.
The WGA had huge support at first, but it will go down.
I also have to agree that the Letterman decision was poor. They made an exception that made no sense and now they’re suffering the consequences of that decision.
The Tonight Show and Late Night with Letterman aren’t unlike the Democrats Vs. Republican partisan views. There are a lot of people who dislike Letterman so they will immediately dislike that decision… Letterman still wants ratings for his show and that will certainly help the writers for his gig as well…
Unions suck for the most part. It is looking like the WGA is looking to make itself just as relevant as the steel workers and UAW unions. Nice going, pissing all that support away.
This blog is fun to read. You sound like the kids blasting each other on YouTube comments, but the grammar and spelling are much better.
Rick Wasserman–
I guess you’re saying that what people tell pollsters is more significant to the outcome of the strike than their supporting the networks by watching Leno? Personally, I think the AMPTP members care more about advertising revenue than poll numbers.
Mike Binder–
You’re dead-on correct. Even Rob Burnett said in the press that their deal will be the same as everyone else’s when the strike is over. The WGA’s trumpeting its agreement with WWP as some kind of proof that what they’re asking for should be agreeable to everyone is nonesense.
Get to work strikers. Or don’t complain when other people do it for you. You already don’t have a real job and are overpaid. Many ordinary people would love to have your jobs and you have the nerve to complain. Get to work, or shut up and get another job.
Go Leno
Go Letterman
Defeat the strikers. Defeat the petty bourgeous.
I saw Letterman the last two nights. It certainly appears that the WGA is still on strike on his show, His show remains lame and just unfunny.
As a just a regular T.V. viewer, I have to say, this makes no sense. So Leno doing his own monologue as a writer is taboo, so what? The guild would actually rather Leno get non-union writers to do his monologue? The guild is essentially actually advocating the use of “scabs.” Tell me what sense that makes? Leno doing his own material in my opinion makes much more sense then him going out and getting non-union help. The guild might want to think about who they have leading them, cause it sure seems like sense is severely lacking in their leadership right now.
Seems to me that a lot of people don’t understand unions. The writers struck for a new contract. Letterman’s company was struck along with the rest. His company agreed to the unions demands nd signed a new deal. The union dropped the strike against his firm. NBC was then faced with a dilemma. NBC could either give in to the unions demands, or risk losing a lot of market as Letterman aired new shows and they showed repeats. Or they could get people to cross the picket line, which is what they opted for. Management is under no obligation to give a crap about hiring replacement workers. Union members, like Jay, are. Jay is crossing the line by writing and employing free-lance writers. If the union doesn’t raise a stink about it, it might as well give up now. This the same as the UAW striking the Big Three, and Ford making a deal. If they do, the other two risk losing market share when Ford has new models rolling off the line and they run short of cars to sell. Jay may not want to admit it, but he is helping to bust the union.
“Tell me, who are you gonna believe, the greedy, lying, cheating companies or the WGA?”
Well we know who’s side you’re on, but those “greedy” companies don’t have to give you any money. They hire writers (like myself) and writers willfully work for them.
As a former union member and later member of management. Experience has taught me that NO ONE WINS from a strike.
Viewers are not in tune with the union because it interferes with their enjoyment. The networks are bringing back old shows that do not need writers. SO who is the big losers? The writers!
Speaking for the viewers, the squabling is a bore. We want to see Leno and can care less about big bad NBC and inept WGA negotiators. So far Leno has been better without the writers in my opinion.
Good point made earlier: you WGA idiots are making the networks look like the victims! If you continue to make this thing about Leno, you have already lost the war. America loves Leno and doesn’t understand rhe complicated issues at the core of the dispute. Get over it and get back to work.
You people make me laugh…you make a deal with Dave and his writes eat and pay bills but you let NBC simmer on a stick and call Jay a scab for doing his own work. You should have all eaten beans until everyone had a fair deal. I hope your families are well taken care of for the amount of money you are losing each month. All for one and one for all (except Dave and his crew)…nice way to show teamwork.
I think you writers out there should be a lot more worried than you are. The WGA is run by a bunch of former high school losers who now have a chance to pretend they are big swinging dicks. New media will kill television the way it has killed the music business. You guys walking the picket lines can join the networks on the scrap heap of history. I have no sympathy for any of you. Fuck all of you and your stupid agendas. People want entertainment and they will continue to get it from the net more than TV, so sit back and watch online ad revenue grow by leaps and bounds while your precious TV viewers keep disappearing, you arrogant, short-sighted motherfuckers.
You’re all being used… open your eyes before you all lose your cars and houses.
If Jay was a smart and loyal member of the WGA he would not be performing in a way that shows how sanguine everything is without the writers. He is a loyal member but, is not too sharp when it comes to the politics of something like this. I would hope he comes to his senses and turnes down his monologue a couple of notches. As far as the guild is concerned they need to talk to Jay and let him know the consequences of his outstanding performances. He does try in his own lame way to explain to the public how crippled he is without the writers but, again his actions / performance do not line up with his position. I am just part of the audience public and have a suggestion to the union. Let us in on some of the details and let us be the deciders on who is right and who is wrong in this battle. We can really put a crunch on the studios by not watching if we decide your getting the shaft from the corperate guys.
any comedian that doesn’t sit and write out a joke doesn’t really own it anyway. any true writer will tell you that. more power to Leno.
bumpkin Letterman should go hunt grizz till this thing is over. He’s not helping.
So if I understand this correctly:
The WGA and some of the writers as evident on the comments are pissed because Jay wrote down his monologue which in the WGA’s eyes are equilevent to being a strike breaker. But if he used the same material in an improv format, this would have been ok.
So the only reason that I can tell from all of the comments that Jay is a “scab” is becaused he dared to write down is own material before he went on stage.
Sorry folks, I am just laughing at the whole thing.
Union members – raise some capital and start your own network… Be your own bosses and see how that goes for you. Who will be your big, bad CEO?
The WGA is really seeming like more of a JOKE these days. So he can “do” his monolog, but not “write” it. The comedian threatened for writing his own jokes. You clowns need to wake up and suck up this NON-ISSUE and get back to the real business of why you are on strike in the first place. WAKE UP!